Lady, You Don’t Need Astrology

About three times a week I get more or less the same email only from a different woman. Yes, always female. My response is always that they don’t need astrology, that they need a shrink. Or to get a grip.  Or to inhabit anything other than the weird warp that they are apparently stuck in.

To Clarify. The classic version of this email goes something like this: 

Dear Mystic,

I am in love with a man who is married/on crack/who hates me/who seduced my sister/says he wants nothing more to do with me/has just taken up a three- year posting at an Arctic base/with a history of extreme domestic violence/who is 21 years younger and insists I am too old for him/who is gay but kissed me when he was drunk/who I have not spoken to but the psychic at the mall said he was my soulmate/who said he is not interested but he has Mercury Retrograde /who does not want a relationship but we still have sex sporadically and he owes me $20,000/who I  found out is sleeping with his parole officer – should I wait?

You get it, right?  I wish I could say this was an equal opportunity thing – that men also email me with this sort of thing but they don’t.* And it’s not that I lack compassion for these sorts of dilemmas – I’m super-empathetic because I’ve experienced it. However, the senders of the emails don’t want compassion, empathy or any insight other than an affirmation couched in super-cosmic lingo. 

But as I’ve said before, if the best thing you can say about a ‘relationship’ is that “it’s karmic” – forget about it. And if the dude is not there/on drugs/does not like you etc – fuq it. 

The ladies sending these sorts of emails are not idiots and no doubt they know all this intellectually but something has gotten a hold of them. They’re like Love Zombies. If they’re not on bath salts, maybe they’re doing a Pluto-Venus transit – it can be the epitome of compulsive love scenarios – or stumbling through the mists of a Neptunian attraction.

Whatever they’re doing, they need to stop doing it. Love Zombie trances can be like fairy-tale trances in that one lucid day you wake up and realize that a ridiculous amount of time has gone by. You haven’t been single in an empowered way but nor have you been pair-bonded – you’ve been in this liminal Love Zombie hinterland.

Anyway, if I reply to one of these emails with a thoughtful response along the lines of “…bummer of a situation but I don’t think it’s that relevant that his North Node is conjunct your Part of Fortune” and a tactful hint that it might be time to detach/withdraw, I get a tirade in return. 

Eg: “NO MYSTIC YOU DON”T GET IT – THIS IS KARMIC. I dream about him every night/the mall psychic said/don’t you understand that the North Node means PAST LIVES?!…”

Many of us have most likely been Love Zombies at some point but the point is to snap out of it a.s.a.p. There are no former Love Zombies who, in hindsight, would have spent longer in that state. Like any delusion, it seems mind-boggling when you look back on it.

Consider not trying to push astrologers or psychics into saying what you want to hear and if you’re an astro-fiend, refrain from running progressed composite charts or trying to cross-reference Eclipse degrees with something your ‘beloved’ said on his cousin’s Facebook page. If he’s not into you, it doesn’t matter if his Mars is on your Moon or parked out the back of your house – got it?

Thoughts, please.  You can share here in a safe and supportive environment lol.

UPDATE *Self-diagnosed male Love Zombies emerged later.

Image: Tom Munro – Vogue Italia 

426 thoughts on “Lady, You Don’t Need Astrology”

  1. Glad I found my way to this post now, everything written here is all I needed to grasp so I can stop hurting myself.

  2. Mystic,
    I love that you put posts up just when I need to hear them. Was just about to throw myself into one of my love zombie dazes and you pulled me out.

    PS Haven’t ever enjoyed reading comments so much as I have on this topic. Some people really need to learn the meaning of irony.

  3. queenofthejungle

    Just cut to the chase and tell them what America sex columnist Dan Savage does so well — DTMFA. As in, “Lady, you don’t need astrology. Just DTMFA!” Case closed.

  4. 12th house virgo

    I’ve got a story to tell and no where else to tell it. I commented earlier on this post as I told a friend “Just because you can connect to a guy’s dead mom doesn’t mean he’s into you.” So, he says “Were there other dead people?” And I said “Lots.” And he says “I miss my grandpa, do you think you could connect to him?” And I said, “Yeah, but not now” because I had a few drinks – not the time for more spirits. Anyway, a chain of events led to me hiking alone on a small local mountain the next day. And as I am coming down the mountain, I connect to this guy’s grandpa. And the grandpa is non-stop punchlines. Unrelenting, roasting, queer humor. So I text him and ask if his grandpa had a wicked sense of humor and he replies he was 14 when he dies so he doesn’t remember. And I say, you’d remember this but perhaps I am just connecting to my inner gay man because I am a gay man trapped in a woman’s body (a little lol). Anyway, grandpa so wants me to tell this guy to dress in drag next time he’s at home so he can embrace all his phobia about being woman of the house (his wife makes the money). And I know I’m right about this being his grandpa. So, mutual friend tells me his grandpa died of AIDS but no one is supposed to know. WTF? Why are people so cagey about the truth? His grandpa is funny as hell, quite happy with how he lived his life, still full of joy and wants to give this guy some insanely funny advice. The guy writes screen plays – one a roast – and his grandpa is no doubt whispering punch lines in his ear unknown to him. I’m tempted to corner him tonight, tell him to get the fuck over it and be the punch line he so fears – be the woman of the house if that’s what he’s afraid of being called – that’s what his grandpa would want. Embrace the fucking joke, you know? Whatever. Bring on evolution. Please. Cause the “secrets” and judgments and fear of being correct/incorrect are so boring and the reality is so not.

    1. Great story x another example for me of how all information comes from triangulation. It takes 3 to solve puzzles properly.

      1. 12th house virgo

        Yes, three, but…why are most so unwilling to accept honesty? Now I know what his grandfather wants to say to him – that he wants to talk to him – and I know that he doesn’t want me to know his grandfather. Stupid.

      2. He probably does accept it, may just take a while to sink in. You planted the seed, the pure data into his mind. You did what you did and said it straight. I don’t think anyone, even grandpa can fortell the consequences.
        Those consequences are not your responsibility of course, and they may mean lots of ‘work’ for our screen writer. He needs a strategy now. Current strategy ? Nooooooo

      3. 12th house virgo

        Thanks, davidl. A few years ago, I was an atheist. Now, well, I’d like to think people would be happy to know there’s immortal life. But that’s not how its received – ever – in my experience. At least here, on this blog, it is a bit closer to normal to have problems like these. Soul connections, fantasy relationships, speaking with the dead, all that…

        There is something I can’t articulate there…a bind…we are encouraging the heart broken here to know: if the wo/man you love is not there, s/he’s not there. No relationship. Period. Embrace reality. But…then I’m talking with dead grandpa on the mountain…a man who very much loves his grandson. Ha! Perhaps I’ve found it…my knowing that doesn’t mean they have a relationship.

        It would be so great if all these ideal loves – between grandfather and grandson of woman and man – could be realized materially, in thought or action. Why they can’t is beyond me. I know the consequences are not mine and if I attempt to make them mine, the karma gets ick. But – fuck all – this magical living business is heartbreaking.

      4. That’s beautiful 12HV, love your work. Totally get where you are coming from. Tonight I posted some info on another forum with my dissent on the topic on thread plus my research and findings on said topic. The maker of the thread sent unpleasant energy my way. I just move it on. Another 10 mins of my day spent doing something I can no longer be bothered articulating.
        Anyway, I love how personal your touch is with this dearly departed, good luck with how it plays out in the end.

      5. 12th house virgo

        Thanks, andromeda. Its rare to be able to talk about it as work instead of “belief.” The community MM has developed here is a true blessing.

  5. Scorporation, Inc.

    Speaking of WHORES, I just discovered this one in the archives:

    It’s two years old, but who would have guessed? Classic. Or chronic.

    Cronic. Like, of ye old crone– ye old Whore crone.

  6. Post is hot topic for discussion it seems.

    The simple fact is life is just too SHORT for over analysis, energy vampires, or allowing someone to take up too much of ones head space.

    Bottom line: other people can’t make you happy. They may give a peptide rush but like everything else it doesn’t last.
    Karma or no Karma

    My point is that until you we, all of us make the most of ourselves, our potential, our talents and abilities and decide not to give a F about what others think ..until we do that we are subject to wild fluctuations in self esteem, sadness, elation and all that other shite that sucks up your energy when you could actually be enjoying life.

    Someone may be your mate, for a short time, for a long time, the result in the end is the same, death will separate and unite us all in the mean time..lets get on with it!!

  7. Completely unrelated question – well, I think it’s unrelated.. but mayhaps the detoxing vibe has gone too far and meds have been chucked aside? This reminds me of the over-reaction to Tesla the cat being prescribed by the vet and peeps over-reacting as if it were animal cruetly.

    Probably Zap Zone fall out?

    1. I kno I kno FA thats why its so cute. Tesla the man who invented electricity. Who’s part of fortune was in aqua… Even though he is a cancer.

    2. Scorporation, Inc.

      Totally my thought too, FA! Ultra freak-out bats! Like cosmic and emotional equilibrium has been thoroughly disrupted. What will we find when the dust settles– in 3 years?

      1. Maybe it’ll be like the tsunami and we’ll find debris swimming up from odd shores when by then we’d have grown bigger, brighter and beyond it, at least enough to see the same shit again with a far better perspective. 🙂

      2. Scorporation, Inc.

        We’ll see this shit wash up on shore and we’ll say, “What is this shit washing up on shore?” We’ll gather all the shit it up and recycle it. We’re haute like that.

  8. btw. I love the wig, cat eye sunglasses and black gloves. I love the red too, just not the lace part, but sexy hot photo! sizzle!

  9. i wonder if this is the post that has attracted the most comments on this blog?? its well over 300 now – zap zone indeed – its sort of been metonymic of the uranus-pluto event, no? change-adept people wanting to understand, share and help re the love-zombie theme, and deeply *angry* responses coming from the underworld. interesting…

    1. No the one last year where Mystic went away for the long weekend and we were all stuck together on the one post was possibly the most commented (but this one i think got more insane). I think it exceeded 500.

      1. aqualeoscorpmn

        I think I was here in time for that one, was like a some beef about generations.. Although My Neptune Saturn Sq cannot recall all the details.

    2. youbetyourwrasse

      Please define “angry.” Is a woman, or a man, who vehemently presents an idea ANGRY? WAIT women get periods I forgot!

      1. The Leo Socialite

        COURtNEY LOVE?

        Someone has to alert Charles quickly – i think Courtney Love has finally found this blog. Which means she is probably close to getting Charles.

        i mean it, i’ve read courtney’s late night gin and mogadon rants on perez and exactly the same tone.

        Seriously, you are calling us “fucked up clueless whores” but you think we should show more class and compassion?

        Courtney, you are a laugh and a half girl.

        btw i have not commented on these last 2 posts as ttoo busy laughing. Amaze.

      2. I just do not know what to say. I mean seriously, I spent like an hour trying to think of something to say, and came up with nothing. So I think I’ll just stick with the last thing I said to Courtney, ever, and in retrospect, it was one of the great turning points of my life.


      3. You were abusive Spicey, or betyourwrasse or whatever you are. You were ANGRY and abusive.
        Please go away.

  10. youbetyourwrasse

    I’m irritated by the tone in all this… calling human beings “zombies” and making generalizations that are judgmental and without fact (‘they’re doing bath salts..”) I assume you are Medusa’s Daughter, ’cause not many would pay for such shit… and such shit is more than I’ve heard since I stopped watching TV.

    Plus the ‘astro bitch’ quotes [next blog] are moral bankrupt and rude. Nevermind the outright holier-than-thou attitude… ‘how DUMB people are when they refer to the 8th house like it was the 5 th house… SHEESH! *newsflash* Everyone starts out *new* …and it annoys me to think that someone who is more adept would characterize someone (ANYONE!!!) in such belittling language… ‘Shit PseudoIntellectual AstroBitches say…’

    ‘“I decided that it was best to keep the relationship 8th House for the time being.”
    “Richard Brautigan’s beat poetry is actually all about Pluto – just like all of Bjork’s music.”
    “It’s not just Jean-Paul Sartre – Geminis are the most existential sign of all. Camus was a Scorpio – NOT a Gemini and he never claimed to be an existentialist.”
    “Alexander the Great was a Cancerian – yes – but he was also a multiple-conjunct Virgo and seriously look to his Chiron-Uranus in Capricorn conjunction.”

    Not only do the fuqed up-clueless-whores cited above (whoops “Astro Bitches”) sound HARMLESS, but the sound far more INTERESTING ‘I’m making Pseudo-Intellectual Astro-Bitch my Twitter description and putting these up there lol.’

    Gossiping is wrong! …these things were said to you in confidence (private email) and you see fit to drag them around.. in order to stand above. The letter could be from ANYONE… people?? Your mother who’s trying to find love after your Dad died? YOU????? “Stupid druggy love Zombie”… she needs to eat Organic Vegan and chant and say the right things and MAYBE earn the “Special Knowledge…”

    This destroys the very reason Astrology passes the Bullshit test… no special knowledge… no special privilege conferred… ALL can master their lives… No Priests and NO SACRIFICES… especially not human ones and especially not to FEEL good and “better.” According to YOU disdain for the uninitiated is status quo.. poor dumb stupid bitches and the shit they say…

    The world is harsh and becoming harsher… people try to make sense of things… are you unable to help? It’s not their fault if you are without spirit and empathy… you should know the stars… they say LOVE… and transform… and be yourself… and be wise…

    Yes send them to a shrink how FUNNY! …who are YOU to think you know ANYTHING about these people? Were you born with all aspects in the 13th house? Where arrogance and certitude and Ego RULE??? You laugh at them… like they are morons to think you may have an answer… maybe they are?

    And seriously… the letter, while I believe all aspects have presented before, is a bit hyperbolic. SHOW me the 3 letters/average week from woman (‘all woman!’) where she is dating the molester of her Son and turning tricks to but heroin. Seriously! They are probably just ordinary 40 something woman confused and lonely… something to ogle and giggle toward when one is 26 like you…

    Not sure of your age but it’s babyish. And masculine. YUK!

    We are all the same.. we are all with faults and we all do dumb things we regret.. to be worthy of TRUTH from without is to be GOOD… to never cast stones (as I am not perfect) and to have faith that the Universe and LOVE can work in amazing miraculous ways… a dog can inspire forgiveness.. a kind word can be a volume of comapssion… and YOU or I can help someone… ANYONE? …because we serve a truth, an essence greater than ourselves.

    In a word… astrology!

    Time for transformation… or not.

    1. Mystic IS taking peoples’ problems seriously – hence she might direct people to mental health professionals if she finds them putting too much faith in obscure astrological aspects, transits, whatever. She is being a responsible professional and acknowledging that sometimes people need serious professional support by people trained in those disciplines. Its all too easy for someone lonely, deluded, love zombied-out to look for esoteric signs when they need to look to core competancies like self-care, talking to a therapist, getting on with their job, being appreciative of 1st world blessings, spending time with friends etc.

    2. youbetyourwrasse

      NEXT blog title… ” Shit Pseudo-Intellectual Astro-Bitches Say .”

      Tagged “Astro Gaga.” No other tags… *sigh*


      Better served by consuming (reading) more … what exactly? IDEAS no… perhaps WORDS strung together in novel new ways that pay homage to the established paradigm? Why? It’s like telling women to defer to men…

      I EAT MEANING. It’s the meat of conversation… the bread-and-butter of dialogue… the ambrosia that can prevent WAR…

      I DID read the comments… many times, which became TOO many times truthfully…. SHIT, I am in the USA before a “big election..” You really believe words often do nothing more than waste time.. BUT of course… ALL opinions are equal in a myopic world vision …including the ones of those running a confidence game. NO THANKS ! 😀

      ..however I would happily take “half cocked” over “no cock” THIS I blame on Venus! *sigh* At my age LOVE finally IS everything and more… passion… compassion… (sickysweet I know! sorry)

      Amazing times for many… but not all… Some will actualize their unique identity and understand the purpose of the birth and the contribution they will make, while others will glom to others/power/wealth/etc. They may schmooze a “bucket list” and “hopes” and “dreams” and “good times…”

      But I think knowing the reason for their LIFE is what they would like to have…?

    3. youbetyourwrasse

      Please enlighten me… what language proves hypocrisy? (Cut n paste is practical..but I welcome as many words as you may want to express.) I desire to improve my habits, but know not to what you refer.

      If you could be so kind.. I mean not to disrespect, but if I have I will learn to do it less…

      humbly… peace

      1. aqualeoscorpmn

        I like MM’s humor, I have jupiter in the second house so wherever it comes from, I value it. Humor can snap people out of stuff as we have learned above, every astrologer has there own make up and way of interacting.

        Zombie culture is in our faces lately and I think its a great way to get yourself to wake up out of whatever part of your chart we may be doing that with.

        And there are astrologers who would never say that, and thats fine Im sure there audience or synastry is meant for that. If you looked here there is a reason for looking.

        People who get it – are not just a bucket list. This is the way we process said events.. Theres nothing wrong with that. If people can admit to it and see how silly it really is or this prevents a woman from going back to said abusive relationship that could end up with her getting addicted to something herself or half her face blown off due to unseen violence, Then she did her part by sharing it in the best way she knew how.

        Humor can wake the best of us up in times of great stress.. Kathy griffin a funny ass scorpio does the same thing all the time.

      2. aqualeoscorpmn

        With humor you go in wanting a laugh and have your psyche changed with it. And in the end we can all laugh about it. Which from what I understand about kama if you seen your life, how ridiculous said events it can be well you just have to laugh…

        Does not mean were laughing at people just the phenomena in life we all experience at one point or another.

      3. Well… you’re bang on my view of humour anyway… life’s a poor player strutting and fretting his hour upon the stage, and all that… sad faced clowns and grinning evil… even Sartre (as Fi quoted on PIAB post) grumbling that by feeling shit he just existed. You know, after my low low times in life i always apologise to the lovely sympathetic people around me for my complaining, and they always reply: Ah but you’re so entertaining the way you do it! There’s salvage in humour.

      1. I’m getting rather bored with it too. It’s so juvenile.

        You won’t find me wearing any of those T-shirts! Outside of this blog they wouldn’t make ANY sense nor would they be funny.

      2. aqualeoscorpmn

        and thats ok, if anyone is feeling uncomfortable there plenty of blogs you you may have better synastry with..

        Its not in my view, It sparked off a great part of my chart I didnt even know I was zombing with. For that I am greatful for this post and the responses it elicited.

      3. aqualeoscorpmn


        – I dont know about all others but as far as me saying, which I know some people take as, well I eat this organic, and I have this organic. I never say that because im trying to say im more enlightened,

        I come on blogs to post what I know, is killing people. If I mention something I do as a routine its not to create division, Its to knock said company out of existance by getting people to see there is another way of looking at croporations looking at there bottom line, which is actually a pretty greedy line thats high above what most would want in life.

        And I may not even take them out in this lifetime, but you know what our kids will follow, if they never ate or were raised on this crap, they wouldnt know they wanted it.

        Its like someone mentioned that there kid never watchs TV and one of the benifits was that they forget to ask for toys. so Its just mentioning said products you use so that a reader who is just as special in the eyes of the universe can make a more informative choice at the register, wake up to the potential that lies in man to sell us stuff that is made from wars, like microwaves. Those are toxic too.

      4. Aqualeoscorpmn

        People always bring this up, you will eventually. No one stays that poor forever, and people wanna say this while having there drugs and drink on the weekends, half of yall can afford -it esp my friends that say this yet run a 200 bar tab on the weekends, not all reccomends have even been about organics. Do you have a microwave to heat your food? that you can afford to throw away.

    4. Lady Fallen, you’re SUCH a Kataka. Beautifully put. Is that Australian, btw? I know i have a dirty Merc in Aries sailor mouth but i realised after these posts that i don’t actually call/refer to anyone as whore/bitch… (except on MM’s blog where i’ve referred to pack behaviour at work 😀 ) It just isn’t something we do? But do US peeps do it?

      1. Oh Gawd, was I being sickeningly sweet? haha.. thanks Mille!

        Do US Peeps use the word whore? Well, colloquially even using the term “Ho” as in “You ma ho-bag, beatch.” is pushing it – even if it’s used as a term of affection among familiars who make it part of group banter. Though “ho” is more common.

        But the full word “whore” is completely and intentionally derogatory.. Bitch is also frequently used here, i.e. Bitch stop yo bitchin’ please.. again, if this is between friends it can be taken as friendly.

        I would say that one of the biggest differences I’ve noticed between altercations US vs UK/OZ style is that we are extremely verbally abusive here even before there’s contact. That freedom of speech is an extremely exercised right. So it’s not atypical to have two grown men in a parking lot here yelling obscenities at each other and posturing and never once hitting each other … whereas in the UK and likely Oz as well, one of them would’ve likely been laid out already.

        Of course, this also has to do with legal recourse, you can name call to your heart’s content but the minute you make contact, that’s assault. etc.

        I do find that US folks sometimes find the flip sarcasm and wit of UK/OZ peeps offensive because it’s taken seriously when really there’s a certain amount of self-deprecation in it. Humor here is well, a bit literal at times.

      2. Merc vs Mars.

        And no, not sickeningly sweet. Katakans’ expression is somehow warm and gentle yet sharply to the point: admired very much by any Sagittarian 🙂

      3. Millie, Angel is my emotional barometer as i’m seriously lacking any planets in water signs which may explain my water fetish. She IS my feelings and as supportive as my beloved Kataka Nana was to me.

      4. Branding? Sh*t, this all says EVENT to moi. It is ON. And frankly the whole Team FUCW vs Team PIAB bit is vibing like an episode of the Real L Word to me – the one where they held a charity event and all the hot lesbians wrestled in jello.

        We could host one and give the proceeds to Love-a-holics Anonymous?

      5. 12th house virgo

        milleunanotte – USA person here. I told my very American friends about Pseudo Intellectual Astro Bitches and they think it would be an excellent name for a softball team.

      6. They could play against Team Fuqed Up Clueless Whores you know??

        Loose Beauty vs Bitchy Brains..

      7. OMG let’s design uniforms already!!!

        Team FUCW will be in satin baby pink of course with the knee pads obviously being dual use for er..other occasions. Perfect logo, the Rolling Stones’ Tongue and Lip Design. Power Move: Bending Over so as to stop the ball in its tracks.

        Team PIAB on the other hand would be in Mystery Blue, all their moves would be coded not into hand signals but in cryptic astro instructions which naturally the FUCWs cannot comprehend. Power Move: Levitating while quoting astro and how archetypes (Tarot or otherwise) are relevant to the game.

        Yes, No?

      8. 12th house virgo

        OMG – FA – I love you.

        Was getting concerned today that I may be turning into my Dad because I am developing a strong preference for my pets – all pets and animals – over people. But I do like the people on this blog. Even the haters. They make it spicey. Lol!

        Mystic should organize retreats so we could all meet in person somewhere – perhaps the astral plane.

      9. Oh hun, no whore is really clueless – that blank vapid look is just part of the service.

        I naturally would hit for both teams, snicker..

      10. 12th house virgo

        I’d have to be on team PIAB being as I haven’t had sex in years, can’t be a clueless whore, but I do aspire to whoredom!

      11. Love softball – can i play? Although in execution i’m probably more like Clueless Whores… it’s the thought that didn’t count

      12. 12th house virgo

        Oh, there’s no way I’d play softball. I’m not proud to say, I suck at team sports. Was OK with soccer for a bit. Then an ignored dude with a crush kicked the ball in my face, gave me a bloody nose, and I avoided the field. Hmmm….

  11. It’s called ‘Horigkeit’ (sp?) – something about other-trouble starting with originary mother-trouble: which explains how it comes to be exclusively a feminine plaint. In a patriarchal society, there might be so little an allowance of nourishment of psyche available to women they end up vampiring it from their daughters (collapsed boundaries, inimically intermixed interior lives i.e. intergenerational transmission of gendered harm, starting with earliest attachment-style. In other words, the usual voodoo that is the transusbstantiation of systematic savage economic disadvantaging to wholescale plunder of souls).
    Ladies, leave the Echo chamber and get your own nasty Narcissisus on; not an elevated or even elegant solution, but at least puts a halt to the Vanishing.

    1. I can relate to this, I was terrified of mum, she was extremely angry and violent but she was breadwinner too she always told me to toughen up. Now we are friends as i realized as an adult she was forced to have me and didn’t want to, that is I learnt compassion for her as a woman in her own right

  12. 12th house virgo

    First, MM, thank you for this very important public service announcement. THANK YOU for not encouraging the idea that knowing some dude’s astro chart means you have control over the relationship.

    For the record, I did have a soul connection relationship that lead me into the scariest “spiritual” period of my life. Three years ago, I would have said it was destiny and no way no how was the relationship not going to happen. So, I def get the love zombie zone. But I can also realize that what really happened there was I moved from being atheist to solidly “spiritual” for lack of a better term. That’s a massive transition and way more important than the married dude I did not get to leave his wife.

    Those energy connections are so powerful and so confusing and did drive me to study astro. But I do try to study my own chart first and foremost. Because I am the only person on earth I control.

    Here’s the thing I told my friend this weekend:
    “Maybe the relationship I want doesn’t exist?”
    Gem friend responded “Yeah, sometimes the way you talk about energy connections, it sounds like your talking about your relationship to God.”
    And she’s right – and I’m not even in full out love zombie mode. I just have another dude’s energy that I like. I swear, I’m on my best behavior about that one – no stalking, no chasing. But – still – I find myself wanting to personalize my relationship to God/Goddess/Source/Whatever and – perhaps its true that I use guys to do that? I like having an epic romance playing like musack in the background of my life.

    The pain, obsession, certainty, confusion of soul connections is all very real and it all sucks. But consider for a moment, if you are in love zombie mode, that all that love you want to pour all over the normal human fe/male you idealize – imagine all that love coming to you, direct from Source. You don’t have to work for it. You don’t have to overcome to get it. You just have to accept it: love is unconditional. The sooner you can vibe with that reality, the sooner you are free. And you can let the human-fe/male out of your sights and breathe easy.

    1. “But consider for a moment, if you are in love zombie mode, that all that love you want to pour all over the normal human fe/male you idealize – imagine all that love coming to you, direct from Source. You don’t have to work for it. You don’t have to overcome to get it. You just have to accept it: love is unconditional. The sooner you can vibe with that reality, the sooner you are free.”

      I am just loving the wisdom that is emerging in this thread! It’s so true 12V. I am not going through something as intense as you, but I definitely understand what you mean with the sentence I copied there. It’s like, if you could spend even half as much time treating yourself as you’d treat a cherished loved one, … and I go back to one of my favourite quotes of all time, “To get what you want, become what you want.”

      I actually imagine you as an artist, attempting to elucidate this spirituality or ‘idealised’ r’ship.

      1. 12th house virgo

        Thanks, Pi, I am actually working on a book about a relationship that touches all these themes and more. Jupiter transiting my 9th/10th – hopefully astro-luck is on my self-publishing side. I am a bit fearful this is going to take me forever, so your vision of me as artist is really a comfort right now.

      2. Wow, I’ll read your book 12hv!

        I resonated with all you wrote here, that’s a good start 🙂

    2. 12th house virgo, i so like your ideas re love.

      i think you’re right, a bit like you just kinda ‘set and forget’ your heart’s highest intentions, and life unfolds according to the feelings in your heart. you can’t make stuff happen re love, only be your best self and trust in a higher process going on in response to what you generate from within.

      1. 12th house virgo

        Yes, set and forget is how its done. But you make it sound so easy 🙂 We all know accepting all that vitality – passion/aggression – and just letting it be is really, really, really hard.

      2. ha ha, you’re right, tis fuqin hard…spec. when your astro looks like you won’t meet mr right till you’re 60 ! i don’t know, part of salvaging myself from my prev. long-term rel has been becoming really good friends with my ex, and basically just darn well growing up and being grateful for all the good things i have in my life, which are so very many.

        we can be happy in our own lives i reckon, we don’t ‘need’ to be in a love rel. Golden retrievers and cats work for me too,

    3. 12th house Virgo, I am with you. I am in a soulmate connection that I cannot let go of. It might sound completely bizarre to most but when you are connected it is hard to let go so you have to work with what is being given. I honestly believe that God match us together to learn something (transform our love ideas) since we met in 2009 and I think that was the time that most would begin the transformation. Let me tell you I changed a lot. Mostly my attachment to God. I let Him in. It was the best connection ever. I also realized that I am no longer treating myself as a victim when a relationship does not last. My current guy taught me SO much and what made the whole difference from me after him treating me with disrespect because he doesn’t know any better is that I love him. It felt so good to understand and accept that. It was a huge lift from my shoulders and I continued on with my life feeling empowered not crappy that he did not love me back. A month later I met someone else. But I got led back to my current guy and my life continued to be transformed. I moved to his state FOR ME but I got the call from him where he wanted to make sure I wasn’t moving for him. A big fat NO!! He told me he was on a different page and I was relieved. I moved anyway and what happened 4 days after I got there.. he called me. So our 2 year relationship started with a lot of growing for both of us! He was really coming around but as he always told me because of my “ex” I don’t want to be in a commitment. Ok, no problem. I can’t be in one anyway because everything going on in my life so let’s just have some fun together. He got to close to me and he pushed me away. November was the last I have seen of him physically. He has been hiding a bit but I have seen signs of him coming around. That is the way he works! I don’t know what it will mean for me but bottomline, I am not going to settle for anyone just to have someone in my life. (Hense, comments by friends you need to get out more to meet someone) It is not me. I would rather have the intensity of my current love that I know I can freely love and be myself with than to pretend with someone else. It is NOT gonna happen. I would rather be by myself. Strange for most but I was brought into this life alone and I will leave this life alone. No one is responsible for me unless I can find someone who can match my love intensity. I am hoping it will be my current guy!

      1. 12th house virgo

        Virgo Ellie – you CAN let go of it. Once upon a time, I would have smacked someone for suggesting that to me. But the Sag Sun Cap Moon guy I had the connection and dead-mother visits from – its done. Done. I have no hopes of romance with him. We’re just no compatible. Its kind of sad that such magic is now just ordinary, but it is. I don’t want to hear from him again. But I am sure I could handle it gracefully if I did. Because I am at peace.

        After I got out of that connection – almost immediately – a Scorp Sun Aqua Moon man got on my bandwidth. We talked back and forth for a bit acknowledging the connection. And a then he pulled a retreat. It isn’t as intense as the last one, but the lesson is still there for me: a guy who is ignoring you is NOT a romantic relationship. Its not an iron in the fire, its not an evolving situations, it is just NOT happening. What will be will be, but the fact that this man hasn’t talked to me in months is not romantic potential. Period. Being ignored sucks, and I am not investing in relationships where ignoring or retreating is rationalize through spiritual connection. My energy is put to better uses by paying attention to what is in my life, not what is missing or who may come back one day.

      2. 12th house in Virgo.. I agree and understand the letting go part. I am not obsessed in the sense that I try to get him to notice me. I have TOO many things going on in my life that I don’t have time for it. So, I have been letting go. I think the sad thing is that HE was the one that pursued me even after we had the talk that we would be just friends. I went with it knowing full well that he wasn’t into it like I was.. I accepted that. Of course he kept calling and we got closer. It was up to him and he did a great job. However, we are from the same HS and a reunion is coming up. It will be extremely uncomfortable. We were so intimate, had fun, enjoyed each other and what… he will ignore me at our HS reunion?. Well, we have time to get to a place where we can really be friends but let’s see if he has it in him. But again, I am letting go knowing full well that I love and adore him. It’s just a fact. I have never wanted a commitment, marriage, children with him or him to take care of me financially. He kept on pointing out that I wanted this, and I wanted that.. when in fact I never said anything. He was just aggravated over his hurt past. I will keep you posted. You never know.

      3. Excuses, excuses… there are a few love zombies here in denial. “oh my story is different..”. Yeah sure. Talk to the hand dark *puts palm up in air*
        Who cares who pursued whom! If he’s not in your life now. He’s not that into you. Full stop. And if he ignores you at the reunion then he’s a jerk!
        It’s not a *fact* that you love and care for him. It’s a *feeling* and feelings come and go.

      4. Yes I agree. If he’s with you in real life, physically present and committed, you’re in a relationship. If not, it’s IN YOUR FANTASIES, Virgo Ellie.

        Maybe discussing the need to buy toilet paper etc which happens in real relationships,
        is not karmic enough for you, but snuggling up to a man who adores you night after night in real life beats a solo fantasy – when you are ready for it 🙂

        Good luck sweetie

    4. 12th house virgo

      PS – I was confessing to another Gemini friend that the relationship I want doesn’t exist. He asked me to describe the relationship and all I could describe was the weird, intense, spiritual transformation I went through. But I summarized with “Just because you can connect to a guy’s dead Mother doesn’t mean he’s into you.”

      LOL! Thank God I can laugh about these things now.

      Now, when I feel sad that some romantic interest isn’t latching on to my spiritual-sexy-goodness, I think about how long I rejected God/Source/Whatever in my own life. If God can be rejected, so can I. No problem.

      1. Hit the nail on the head there. I remember a time in the depths of my years self imposed seclusion in the ‘hills’ when I realised something similar. That all those love songs can be like sonnets to Source. Really helped me clear the pipes on secret unfinished womens business that had been going on. I was spending a lot of time with Krsna’s and raja yoga/devotional practice. It was damned romantic love too. Quite beautiful and liberating.

      2. 12th house virgo

        I’m a Sufi mystic at heart – always in love with the Beloved. It is quite romantic. I just ocassionally have to slap myself to wake up to the fact that the “Man” behind that isn’t real – its just the poetry of living.

      3. Aqualeoscorpmn

        Ive never thought knowing astrology will make me have control over anyone, just myself and people not having control of me.

        Aside from so many life affirming death busting things- Astrology is great for liars, hypers & manipulativists. If it aint meant to be it just wont, you cant change your birthchart or his, but you can change how you feel about it.

      4. Scorporation, Inc.

        Qawwali! It transports me to everything Real and Beautiful and Loving in an instant. My fave is Nusrat Fateh Ali Kahn, of course. Brilliance!

        Rumi. Rainer Maria Rilke was enthralled with Sufi mysticism. It’s so gorgeous… Rumi realized that The love affair was our connection to Source; all other relationships were simply a smaller expression of The One.

      5. 12th house virgo

        Yup. That big old uber Romantic Love with God. Makes me think I will never ever ever have human sex again. But, I did make progress this weekend in realizing that the relationship I want doesn’t really exist – at least – outside of it being my realtionship to Source. Connection to All That Is or some guy – how can I argue with All That IS? Although, I do hope that All That IS arranges for me to have sex again before I die…again.

      6. Scorporation, Inc.

        Haha! Oh, 12HV… What do you miss most about sex? Or should I say, what is it about sex that you are craving?

      7. 12th house virgo

        Touch. Touch in ways that would be inappropriate with my cuddling compainions (pets and child). Angels don’t get touch. Its one of the simple (or, rather, not too simple) pleasures of being alive, incarnate.

      8. Scorporation, Inc.

        Touch is irreplaceable. Agreed. Sending wishes that you’ll soon be touched in all the right ways. xo

      9. 12th house virgo

        Comments are getting to small – but re the sex thing – I do realize I could grab some guy a fuck right now. Or some girl. I have a Gemini man in an open marriage and a bi Saggitarius female staying in my house right now. I’m pretty sure I could sell them on a three way. And that would no doubt involving touching. But sex – its about intimacy and sharing of power, not shrinking and ego gratification – and I SMELL it on others. I can’t explain. Its a note I want to hit, I want to share, a harmony with another seeking harmony, not just sexual adventure. I’m sure its possible, just as I’m sure Unicorns are. I have such a Virgin/Whore thing going on, no wonder I’m 12th house Virgo. lol

      10. Scorporation, Inc.

        lol Yeah, I hear you: you want that deep connection, not a fuck. Two totally different things, for sure.

        A fuck is qi draining; real intimacy is nourishing.

      11. Aqualeoscorpmn

        In lieu of USqPL

        Fuks can be just as rewarding. Just gotta drop that damn to do list. Its a known fact for scorpmooners a good jag in the sheets or wooded area is quite benificial. Not everyone wants what you want. So qi is not drained For everyone just for yourself.

      12. 12th house virgo

        God bless fuckers everywhere. And thank God for astrology which has really helped me accept myself and my cravings as natural to me. Not trying to put them on anyone else. We all have our strengths/weaknesses. I was no blessed with a Scorp moon.

      13. 12th hv, could the rel you want be some kind of new age/evo kind of friendship/sex rel, as opposed to trad rel? 🙂

      14. 12th house virgo

        I don’t know. I can’t imagine doing paperwork over a relationship again. Marriage is a pain in the ass. Sincerity. Connection. Those things. And those are hard to find in even casual relationships, really. Most people are lying to themselves. And I can’t help it. Its like you see a zit on a friend’s face and you feel a need to pop it or at least tell them to take care of it. I tend to pop people’s bubbles, so, whoever I relate to needs to be into that – or at least – into me in spite of that. 🙂

      15. Yes I know I can be in two minds re same thing diff times sounds like deep and integrity u r after ?:)

  13. Yeah it all sounds like an attempt to legitimatise/rationalise bullshit/non-existant relationships.

    Channel the wasted emo in to loving yourself as there’s some serious self-esteem issues if you’re gonna invest in such a one sided love affair.

  14. ALL of the above is why in 1993 when i re-discovered Tantra (in 60’s it under heading of Kama Sutra, then Osho brought it to the West in 70’s), when i realised if sex can kill, then so it can cure, and as a safe sex educator in 80’s i asked ‘do we want to die from love’, i knew we needed a different mind set and a safer way to explore our libidos that also entails bringing in Spirit, hence the term sacred sexuality. And yet from my years of study & practise in fell into the worst relationship that disempowered me, dishonoured me and was the opposite of everything i believe in and held sacred. It was about the Father, i knew that, unresolved, un-admitted grief & abandonment of my father dying when i was 13 years, old surfacing 40 years later. Butch it was if you have been on site for 6-7 years you would remember how i was gutted. If i had been 30 i would have just left the country or State or had many other lovers ready to soothe me.
    Still un-settles me 3 years on, that i allowed the manipulation before realising it was HIM not Me, that he was a composite of his previous ex-es, and actually disliked women because of his past which was loaded
    down onto me. Not a Zombie but definitely obsessed as though he had set up camp in my head w/o my permission (or paying rent) 🙂
    It was a war between the sacred & the profane.
    ‘i used to dream dope
    I used to dream sex
    Now i dream light
    Thank God there’s still hope’………….from a book called ‘God Jokes’ with amazing illustrations.
    Tantric practises often sort the gold from the dross.

  15. Well well Mytic: you’ve hit on a raw nerve here!

    One of the things that I find so frustrating with friendships sometimes is this belief that it’s all just about cheerleading. I watched at close hand last year as someone I respected walked out of her 17 year marriage and then made stupid decision after stupid decision while her close ‘friends’ cheered her on.

    For example: went house sitting at four separate houses for a month each after walking out of marriage- she was earning excellent money and could afford her own place – upshot – she was unsettled. I worked with her – she was crying most days; wasn’t dressing up or well when she usually did. From the crowd ‘Yay! thanks for looking after my place’.

    Finally she finds a place at a really high rent then complains she has little money. From the crowd, ‘Yay! What a cool place for us to hang out’.

    For example: only son (10) not coping with marriage break-up and admits to suicidal ideation. Her decision: follow through on 3 week overseas trip plans (her alone) – a small bit of work, which could have been done in one week and return home, and the rest holiday. From the crowd ‘Yay! You so need the break from all of this.’

    I had to get away from the relationship – I finally worked out that she wasn’t very experienced in making good decisions because over the course of her professional life and personal life, she had allowed others (men typically) to make them for her.

    She’s a Scorpio with a stack of planets in Libra (hence expensive rental place) – so I get the transition is writ in the stars and that ultimately she will Phoenix.

    Painful to watch though.

    1. Electric Eel Libran

      Most people don’t make good decisions when they are teenagers. And because this person hasn’t been allowed to make ‘real decisions’ before, she’s sort of an honorary teenager mentally so she’s going to make some crazy mistakes. It’s gotta suck being the one friend who is the realist when everybody else seems sort of immature.

    2. Sounds harsh but I’d walk away from it too. It almost sounds like by exiting the marriage, a facade of togetherness has come down.

      Sounds like she just needs approval from other people and is pandering to the cheerleading crowd. And yeah you’re right, the whole cheerleading crowd is damaging. They seem to think they’re acting in the persons interest but ultimately no as you’ve pointed out.

      I have to say, I’ve fallen in to that trap before and it’s backfired big time, left with the exact opposite of what I wanted. I listened to others and I lost out in the end and these people who egged me on could care less in the end. Now when I get the cheer leading, I think “Ok, they’re being nice but think about what’s really best for you.”

  16. I have a touch of the Love Zombie about me, but the first step toward being a recovering Love Zombie, is being able to admit you are one. Only then can the healing begin.

  17. I understand because I have lost my ‘idiot compassion’ lately too.

    Just dying to tell off my Love Zombie friend and can’t even be around her at the moment since you can’t be on Earth and in Denial at the same time.

    Must be a saturn-moon transit thing. Was a bit harsh though in its delivery.

  18. WOW! That was SO good for me… have been with a guy with a heroin problem..thinking he will get off it for me.. UM NO! Thats never going to happen I need to kick this to the curb and FUQ it!!!! If your guy is on drugs then its JUST not WORTH IT!!!!

  19. Christ on a bike, this post went mental. Meant to post one of my favourite quotes hours ago when there were no other posts. It seemed appropriate to the original point and something always worth keeping in mind.

    “Advice is what you ask for when you already know the answer but wish you didn’t.”

    — Erica Jong

    1. Someone (soz can’t remember who) gave this quote many posts back which rang my bells ! * Genius *

      ‘Don’t treat someone like a priority, when they treat you like an option.”

      great comments all…channeling lower chakra sexual energies into spiritual strength and personal power is what I am here to learn. …in addition to playing guitar. wtf I write, never thought I would do that, so guitar is next yeeeah Saturn Rx in 3 tackles another obstacle – hey Sweets wanna be in a kickass grrrl band ?! We would have soOo much fun ! Pegs ? Rockstar ? hee xo

      1. Cool story ! Have tried to read music, but have an ear not an eye …played piano when a kid, all by ear. I know lots of pickers that use tabs, & are wizards anyway. Cleaning basement and where the heck is that tuner ? Still separating my media etc.. from the ex. – whadda mess, 2 toro moons fer chrissakes ! We have a LOT of music. Neptune my most aspected; his Neptuner in first.
        You jus’ know I’ll be brainstorming band names now haha xo

      2. Yes Ven conj Jup 8 squ Scorp Nept 11 – you have opposite right ?
        Mine is bloody hell of an aspect for the love life, but stellar for metaphysics. Once I sat the bottle down I figured it out, took me a while though. Being single has allowed me time to explore without distraction.
        Same for you ? Love the freedom of setting my own hours … If I wanna write and spin records in the wee hours, I do ! I’ve missed you too x

      3. yeah, bummer about no time or degrees of planets. So not sure how accurate that chart is but Libra rising seems to fit with his ballerina ex wife as you say. My friend is a Libran and his daughter a gorgeous ballerina. Lots of synchronicity going on! 🙂

  20. **GREAT POST** 🙂 LOL
    Just asked the oracle a question and got:
    ‘You need to stop freaking out that you’re not good enough. Could actual therapy be brill for your self-esteem?’ 🙂
    Needless to say it wasn’t to do with my question, but that I was really thinking about this post 🙂

  21. My Pluto conj Asc sq 10H Venus & my 11H Mars trine 3H Neptune; w/ 50+ years under my belt, I’ve been a LZ more that I care to recall, each being a major step closer to self-actualization. The path out of LZ is never readily obvious, but as Pluto transited 4H & its natal Saturn I found an eye-opening watershed moments as I stared into my personal mirror & saw childhood dynamics re-played in all my adult relationships. MM definitely hit one of love’s most sensitive nerves w/ wisdom & humor, a few of the tools necessary for any LZ recovery. While Spicy’s PIAB post was cold & raw…did Spicy protest to much?…sadly Spicy’s LZ self-loathing pain is hidden behind their frost. All other posts herewith are very informative to those grappling with LZ behavior & books noted by Pi are most recommended. For me, astro, tarot, fairy tales, etc. were not the only methods used in any LZ development nor, along w/ self-help books in its healing…a good dose of individual & group modalities w/ caring, learned, non-manipulative & non-self serving therapists during Pluto 4H transit were life-saving. Now I wait for Pluto’s travel thru 5H to do its magic…may a “love” Phoenix rise & LZ remain safely coffined! And good luck to all LZs as they find their way into the light…don’t give up…start w/ loving yourself first & foremost.

  22. orderoutofchaos

    You’re right Mystic! We have all been there sometime. My teenage daughter and I watched the chick flick “He’s just not that into you” and it was excellent for both of us. if one of us slips into Love Zombie territory, the other recites the mantra and we change direction before harm.

  23. 12th house virgo

    Warning – I feel a rant coming on. I hear people talking about controling feelings. You CANNOT control feeling. You CANNOT decide to feel that its cold outside. That’s just a simple example. But once you realize you are not your feelings, you realize the dead whisper in your ear sometimes. Really. There’s a lot going on in this world of ours. And we are in the zap zone. There are rules to living. Here are the rules:
    1. You must breathe
    2. You must eat/drink
    3. You must shit and piss
    4. You must sleep
    5. You must maintain a certain temperature
    5. Some people (not all) need to have sex to reproduce. Unfortunately – or perhaps fortunately – sex is somewhat optional to existing.

    The rest is your trip. And there is so much more going on in this existance than most people are willing to share. But – stay broken hearted. Hearts don’t really break. They get bigger and bigger and bigger – but stay open. We are in the zap zone. There are people who want to connect in this plane. Maybe not the crush you obsess over, but stay open to the power of feeling All That IS or we have no hope of evolving. We are interconnected – all of us – not just the ones you may happen to really want to bed/wed right now.

    1. Scorporation, Inc.

      It’s true: we can control our cognitions, and our behavior– but not our feelings. We can work to *understand* our feelings and thereby learn to use them to our advantage (which is what feelings are for!), but feelings come and go on their own terms.

    2. When I am using the term “heratbreak” what that is referring to is a break in the energetic connection between two people.

      Often this may first be experienced by a child of divorce when Daddy leaves, and that “abandonment” is experienced as that “energetic break” in the heart to heart connection, between child and parent.

      The child is then set up for life often seeking to heal the original break with sexual experiences with many people. Eventually, when not found, that original heart break will come back very forcefully.

      1. I do think this is 100% true. And this is precisely why you CAN’T control feelings – because of childhood programming and the spontaneous reaction that arises from natural, organic emotion. Anyone (or anything) that experiences emotion will react to certain stimuli in the same way: either by breaking the energetic connection, or allowing the energetic connection to get ‘tangled’ and impeded. That’s why heartbreak feels like you’re dying – because PRANA (i.e., life force) flows through the energetic channels, and thus feeds us. But when we cut energetic connections to the heart (or have enough ‘tangles’ and impediments in the channels), then our life force is significantly reduced.

      2. Scorporation, Inc.

        Fear, anger, betrayal, abandonment– all of these seemingly negative feelings are actually beneficial! They are strong clues to the experiencer about what has gone before and what actions to take next. In describing the offense, they prescribe the remedy. Feelings are tools at your disposal: use them, be empowered by them! The less we examine our feelings, the more lost or stuck we may feel.

        All self-eval is meaningful and purpose-driven. Whether you approach your feelings from a psychological theoretical perspective, Eastern teachings, astro– or an eclectic blend of all of the above, your efforts and journey will pay off ten-fold! Everyone is innately capable, and deserving 🙂

      3. Getting hit by a bus in Midtown Manhattan can be a very benificial experience for those that need to work through that karma of hurting or killing people in a past life.

        No one should ever feel the least bit sorry when this happens, but always see the wonderful opportunity in everything.

        There are no negatives only lessons to be learned.

        NOTE: The above is meant to be satire.

      4. Aqualeoscorpmn

        I agree Evananda about the bus thing, one of my favorite things to study was NDE experiences. And finally they showed up on tv which im sure you know about if you live in the states called I survived, and I survivied and Back. That so cleared up any misconceptions I had about death.

        funny everything you speak of here so resonates with me and I found another link, I keep running into this feel everyones death for them. As I have studied and know when anything bad happens. And u know what, my over compassion for what is like you say, and I have seen completely natural.

        Im like a Did they die for no reason sadness Zombie. And have been for a while, sometimes I would fall asleep apologizing for anyones seemingly ill timed and more often than no violently unexplainable. Before I even knew of astrology. Its like my venus in the 8th square Neptune is taking this other peoples death thing way to far. My instinct is to feel for and give voice to all the atrocities. But as im doing that, im believing them Kama.

        It like I still have to learn the diffrence between sharing, but not taking on while sharing giving dignity to those who died so violently. If I am to believe what, I saw on those shows. Then I should not feel sad at all. But I would be a liar if I said it still does not happen to me.

        Thanks for the link and Mystic thanks for the blog post. Just because I aint in a relationship dont mean Im not acting like this with my merc and Venus in Pisces. Its just in another form and I keep it to myself.

      5. Aqualeoscorpmn

        Wow Evananda really literally means that, I never visualized it before. Was pretty neat and explained alot.

    3. Electric Eel Libran

      I realize this sounds selfish, but it’s the truth: Anything less than what I want is worthless to me. I might as well have nothing. Nothing is more predictable, easier to comprehend, and safer for both parties. I can’t pretend to have feelings for someone even though I have tried, in my younger days, faking that sort of thing. I have learned to accept this about myself and it was a hard thing to accept. I used to think I could *make* myself love anyone. I envy the women who can do this sort of love-the-one-you’re-with sort of philosophy. The people who want to connect with me against my will Zap Zone or not can just go to hell. seriously.

      1. 12th house virgo

        Electric Eel Libran – not sure why you commented here, but I agree. I don’t want anything but what I want. Especially in a relationship. But my comment is about life. The interconnectedness of all beings isn’t a “faked” emotion – its how psychic/ju-ju/metaphysics/quantum physics works.

    4. Eelectric Eel Libran

      I realize this sounds selfish, but it’s the truth: Anything less than what I want is worthless to me. I might as well have nothing. Nothing is more predictable, easier to comprehend, and safer for both parties. I can’t pretend to have feelings for someone even though I have tried, in my younger days, faking that sort of thing. I have learned to accept this about myself and it was a hard thing to accept. I used to think I could *make* myself love anyone. I envy the women who can do this sort of love-the-one-you’re-with sort of philosophy. The people who want to connect with me against my will Zap Zone or not can just go to hell. seriously.

  24. Hey why didn’t you post this 4 months ago?! I could have used the slap. I MIGHT have listened.

    I was 100% the girl you described above.
    The guy told me he wasn’t in love with me, that he loved his ex, that he wished he could love me….
    I thought the progressed composite moon in the 7th meant something…my friends hated me for talking about it everyday, the guy was a drunk, an addict, broke, homeless, and OH YEAH I even did bath salts with the guy. NO FUGGIN JOKE. Why, you ask? Oh you know…musicians…somehow they can get away with this all if they just dress well and play in bands (sigh). Terrible.

    But let me tell you…two MAJOR red flags in the astro: PLUTO and NEPTUNE. When these guys are major players and you’re still around: 1. you need to pay attention 2. MAYBE you should get professional help if you’re sensitive with those planets

    How did I escape? Ok, don’t throw anything at me but it was FAITH. One day I promised myself that if I removed this situation from my life and presented myself “as is”, that something better would SURELY come out of it.And it did…in spades!

    And if anyone out there is having the same problem…

    where they feel like something ALMOST could be, or MAYBE in a couple years when (insert situation change here), or it’s so close yet so far…or maybe if I was more successful, more pretty, worked out a little harder, was more sensitive/less sensitive, didn’t laugh so much, wasn’t so self conscious…etc… my advice is to repeat to yourself “AS IS, AS IS” as many times as it takes to sink in.

    how long are you going to work and wait for someone to love the “you” that you’re trying to create? why not now?

  25. puzzldthennotnow

    Never understood WHY!!!?? one of my relatives consistently gravitates to/seeks out/attracts all the WRONG sicko/psycho creeps that the earth vomits up until I took a loooong look at her chart – it was all there – basically ruled by rage and a love of drama/tension that is played out in mega mind games that verge on violence while portraying herself as victim

    Pretty tough to take when you witness it for yrs on end in a blood relative who refuses to listen to anyone

    But then all her female relationships are pretty much just milder versions of the same – a love of battle and scoring points are paramount

    Quit therapy yrs ago at the first sign of reaching the muck, accusing her therapist of being a money hungry “—” tho’ our health plan paid 80% of the cost

    But to see her no one would guess that beneath that oh so polished exterior is a seething mess

    Very very sad and has made me re-evaluate those who find themselves seemingly locked in destructive relationships – because my dear relative has a granite-like will i.e. immovable. And from yrs of watching her and listening to literally thousands of hours of what amounts to her ‘victimhood’ I am left to conclude that she wouldn’t have it any other way. Because she hasn’t.

    At least now I realize why nothing I say has ever made a jot of difference – she just wants an audience to her dramas.

    1. Scorporation, Inc.

      “But to see her no one would guess that beneath that oh so polished exterior is a seething mess”

      — no one, except her family. And her therapist, after just one appointment, I’m sure! LOL

  26. I would say get out of your solar plexus and get into your higher chakras … especially the third eye … where the ability to discern resides.

  27. I was born to a man and woman and sister who seem to need relationship chaos and destructive circus lives just as innately as mammals need air to breath, just as vultures are drawn to wounded beasts, just as flies are drawn to doody.

    Live this way if you like – it is your business and not mine. Live this way, whine to me while projecting the blame for its consequences upon the buffoons you bring into your circle and I will detach from you as thoroughly and permanently as possible.

    1. Liz on.. Yup.. I had to walk away from a friend who I was completely open to about my relationship situation, she knew him. Her relationship situation was unbareable. After she called to create drama about my guy I decided to walk away. She is STILL in that relationship, asking for help and in total denial that she could be the reason for why her guy is causing problems. I keep my distance. I don’t know about you but I have 2 friends who want drama. I don’t understand that concept. When I see them reaching out to me I get tense and bitter. I want them as friends but not with the drama. ugh!!

      1. Oh yeah! I recently (finally) told a friend who flitted into my life when she wanted advice or just someone to listen that I was fed up with her whinging. The ‘problems’ that her partner was causing her through his ‘inaction’ were not his problems at all…. they were hers!!!!

        The ‘problem’ was her inaction in confronting the people that were still major players in his life, like, you know …. sons and daughter, maternal grandparents that he had to stay on good terms with to see his kids, the mother of his children … that were all ensuring that she stayed out of the loop. When she told me after a particularly nasty incident that she had packed up her car and driven to her brother’s place some 150 km’s away I nearly choked on my coffee and gave her a good serve on how to fix the problem with how her partner wasn’t dealing with them – confront them herrself! Her problematic relationship with them wasn’t her partners fault!!!

        I haven’t seem her since and I’m relieved. I got sick her seeing everything wrong as ‘his fault’. BORING. YOU CAN TAKE CONTROL. YOU ‘AM A GROWN UP NOW’. THINK FOR THYSELF AND ACT UPON IT.

      2. As a friend and confidante to many of them, it seems to me that Love Zombies become Qi Vampires rather quickly …

      3. Yeah, it seems they want to be the eternal damsel in distress. All attention and aid going to them.

        I will offer my sincerest wisdom and save your ass once, maybe twice but once I realize that you are manipulating the insanity I will be mighty pissed at being used and all my good intentions wasted in your psycho games.

    2. haha I love this so much! I feel the same way, one hundred percent. There has to be something in my chart that literally forces me to remove myself from circumstances like this, and detach entirely from these people.

      What do you think makes you like this Liz (astrology-wise)?

      Mars in the 10th house (Gem) for me may have a lot to do with it. Also Virgo Sun/Merc/Jup in 12th + Virgo AC. Eh and I guess my Aries Moon in the 8th.

      My whole family also did everything to take away everything I ever had – any power, any happiness, any creativity, any freedom, ANYTHING. So I’ve learned, after many years of suffering, that I have to detach from them all, i.e., no contact with any of them. That’s the only way I’m going to survive at this point.

      1. 12th house virgo

        I wonder if that is a 12th house condition, Dominique. I too have found my best relationship option is very often to let go. Let go, let go, let go!

      2. Yes, I agree. I think the most important thing I have learned in this life – due to the fact that I have a 12th house Virgo stellium probably – is that I cannot avoid responsibility. That doesn’t mean staying in fucked up situations where I continuously get abused because I feel ‘responsible’ for the other person’s happiness. What it DOES mean is making choices and standing behind them.

        We (everyone) need to start making choices that take us out of the victim/martyr cycle. For me, that meant I first had to (finally) accept that I was/am the victim in my family situation. Before that, I had always just taken their shit and allowed them to walk all over me. They had beaten me down sufficiently, to the point where I believed everything they clearly thought about me: that I was not worthy of love unless I did everything they wanted me to do. If I did what I wanted to do?! Then I could forget love – abuse was the only possible thing I would get. At least that’s what it seemed. I was always punished and tortured if I didn’t just do what my family wanted.

        I’m not whining about this, I’m just saying that, as a child, you end up taking responsibility for the adult if they’re MAKING you do so! You have no other choice. It gets programmed into you. When you are first born, your brain isn’t programmed yet to respond to situations; you learn how to respond as you go. So if everyone is projecting all of their shit onto you, then you’re going to respond the way you’ve been programmed to respond. I was taught that everything was my ‘fault,’ that I was bad, that I was wrong, that I had to take responsibility for my disgusting, horrible, bad behavior (which wasn’t at all, they just tried to make me feel guilty for anything and everything, from the time I was born). So I did. I took responsibility for everything. Instead of realizing that THEY were supposed to be taking responsibility for themselves, I just listened. How else can a child react?

        Anyway, what I’m saying is: we have to take REAL responsibility, not the false responsibility that abusers and manipulative guilt-trippers try to force upon us. Real responsibility requires us to first admit/accept that we were a victim of our childhood programming, and then we can take our power back. It’s a long, hard, painful, arduous journey, but it’s really the only option.

      3. 12th house virgo

        You know, you’re articulating something I noticed as a healing pattern. Children must negotiate. They MUST to survive. But by the time we grow up, its hard to remember that we always KNEW this kind of behavior was wrong. The child can’t escape, and the grown-up – far too often – fails to recognize freedom when it comes. I now see people who won’t heal themselves as child abusers because they continue to punish their inner child by repeating the pattern of the original abuser – either in action or expectation. We all must step up and be the grown-up we never had there to set borders for us. Perhaps it is a 12th house karmic thing, but I am sure its true to all or else it couldn’t be true to any. Its so rewarding to hear success – to hear about you defending the rights and space of your own inner child – after witnessing so many others lose that struggle and yet – they keep struggling. Because the truth of the child cannot go away, cannot be silenced. You (the great general you) – in this great karmic loop – eventually – free will and all – have to love and defend who you are – social consequence be damned.

      4. I wish I had a better sense of it astrologically. I’m Pisces Rising. Venus, Chiron in Pisces and Saturn (in
        Aquarius) reside in my 12th. I believe this helped me to be a chameleon and bluff/blend my way thru the early years – but I’m so empathic and loyal that their nuttiness had me spinning for way too long. Thier charts tho make me understand that there is truth to be found in the Sabian symbols. Mom’s MC and sis’ Sun are both at 23 Sagittarius which in Sabian is about setting yourself up for likely negative outcomes “The bluebird, as a symbol of good luck and happiness, alights at the door of a little cottage on the highway”.

      5. Ha, yep, so it looks like the 12th house is something we all have in common..

        And TOTALLY agree about the ‘bluffing’ your way through the early years, & how it left you spinning… that’s basically exactly what happened with me, and still coping with the aftermath.

        So at this point, I don’t really care about anything, it’s just about survival. Unfortunately. I wish it didn’t have to be like this, but when you’ve been so severely abused/programmed by abusiveness, you have to begin at square one. In other words, the root chakra is activated, and it dredges up all of our unresolved issues regarding survival, because our very existence is the only thing we know before we are programmed. We have to start over and re-learn what it means to survive, but in a completely different way. We’ve never really LIVED anyway, so it’s like having to teach yourself everything. All alone. There’s no one there to guide you, lead you, tell you what to do – nothing. It is absolutely empty with nothing to hold on to.

        But apparently that’s the point – we are meant to figure it out on our own. There’s no time to be afraid – we just have to do it. Every moment things are changing anyway, due to the nature of the fast paced Goddess energy (which is in constant flux, forever morphing). We just have to ride the wave, that current of energy – and go.

      6. 12th house virgo

        Dominique – your write here about the need to relearn survival – its been so touching to hear someone else say it. Sometimes I think I am being too extreme or perhaps my perspective is skewed toward my past. Then again, each day it seems I gain new appreciation for just how emotionally abusive my childhood was. Stunning really. My point is that hearing you speak my experience that way is really touching. We may not be friends in real life, but its so good to know others are out there. 🙂

      7. Aw, wow, I’m really glad to hear that. It makes me happy to know that sharing my pain is not without purpose, and is actually beneficial to someone – if only by virtue of connecting to each other, and somehow feeling more whole that way.

      8. Aqualeoscorpmn

        I love sabians too. But most ppl dont know there correct btime. So you and like close fam is most who u get to work with.. Mine were mKing sense and others were riddles. Eh the univers knows i luv those. So im ak that i dont understand everyone yet.

        Im having fun with asteroids now though those are pretty darn accurate.

  28. Great post Evananda. These are Vedic teachings you are working with here ? So interesting how 5,000 year old teachings can be so relevant, healing in our lives today. Do you think we have learn’t anything in that time ?

    1. This is totally off the point but what do you think about the fairly recent findings of religious temples being unearthe in Turkey that are around 12000 years old? I wonder what their doctrines were?

  29. Haha,

    Interesting. As a healer I deal with these same issues from my clients everyday. Eighty percent of my clients are women, so though I’m a man, I understand this perspective very well.

    Probably the most importnant thing I try to impress on my clients is that they are not so much in a “karmic loop” but rather caught in their own kama – desire. Think Kama Sutras. That kama – or sexual desire is the underlying energy that is responsible for the continuation of this creation, or really I should say, illusion. Known in the Vedas as Maya, the illusion created by the Divine Mother.

    It is only the kama desire that is strong enough to make a smart woman do stupid things. Or a smart man. It is kama – even if unfulfilled or unrealized – that has this seeming unseen power to hold people in “bad” relationships. It is only after someone understands the nature of kama – that it is equally creative and destructive – that they are able to escape the influence of kama to some extent.

    Kama – sexual desire – is not something to be toyed with or trivialzed – it is more powerful than our own ego. While we may believe we have it under control – kama is more powerful and will always control us.

    It is important to let go of the illusion of control that sex gives us at certain points in our life. Because it is always the other way around.

    Many relationships that are ruled by kama are karmic in nature. It is likely an unfulfilled desire from a past life – this is especially true whenever we feel a strong connection. Just because you feel that strong attachment, does not mean it is a good idea to have sex with that person. That is how the kama binds us more strongly against all reason and against our own stated moral ideals.

    Women are more likely than men to seek help or understanding from healers, psychics and friends for relationship issues. Men though have just as many or more fucked up problems with the girls they desire, lust after and bed.

    Often a guy has a clear idea that his girlfriend or wife is cheating on him, but because of all his own kama and pain, he chooses to look away from what is right there. To be a “man” and deal with it. Men imagine that if they change something, she will be faithful, that if they improve their sex (kama) lives with that partner, the problem will resolve. Of course that never happens, as the problem – the sex – kama – addiction is too strong for both partners. The female who wants it over and over again from another and the male who “loves” her – but it is only kama playing on both of them.

    But it is women who suffer more accutely because of this. Heartbreak is far more devestating to women than to men. I see so many broken hearted women who once had everything with a guy and when it went away they can’t de-attach, and they cling to that guy or an even worst version to try to get back to the happiness they may never know again.

    By breaking the illusion of kama people can break out of the endless cyle of karma that causes pain over and over in this life and future lives.

    By breaking the illusion of kama I do not mean to imply that sex is bad or should be avoided at all. But rather understand what is really happening in your life. That that “soul mate” you “love” so much, is really just a kama addiction from a past life.

    Of course you are so right in your advice. First move away from the relationship that is causing pain – confusion etc… and then try to understand how kama drives us to make the same mistakes over and over again. Be brutally honest with yourself and your friends about your secrets, your kama and then maybe it is possible to be freed from a continued cycle of pain, or causing other people pain.

    1. Whew! At first I thought your spelling was somehow askew, and then I looked up the difference between kama and karma – Kama is desire itself and Karma means actions stemming from desire. Thank you for informing!

      Do you not see that sometimes embracing kama is a good experience? Do you teach them how to find beauty and wonder in the connection between karma and kama?

      I dunno…..I just can’t come to grips with the constant bombardment of ‘live life to mediocrity and you will be happy….isn’t karma the completion of a cycle? How are you teaching them to recognise the/their ignorance stage of the cycle?

      1. perhaps the kama they are acting upon isn’t actually always sexual? Sex is just the a relieving outlet because it is instant?

      2. morphing now,

        Absolutly kama is a wonder to enjoy… and it is precisely that power that we need to acknowlege. Kama carries with it the seeds of great creation and destruction.

        Just having the understanding that this power is there, and it is OUTSIDE of our egos. That freedom can become the freedom to create with the kama energy. An amazing power is hidden there, that can become in our lives Divine.

        But with every real power or opportunity in spirituality there is always a trap, waiting…. if we do not respect that power our egos will lead us into the trap of pain – suffering and deep attachment.

      3. It’s so interesting what you have written, I wish we could have a conversation properly

    2. Evananda, good read. So, Thank You.. But what if the karma attachment is a great lesson to learn from? I think everyone has this perception (society) that relationships start here, then this happens, and then it goes this way.. etc, etc.. but what happens if you just enjoy the time with your karmic connection and have a fun life. I don’t consider my karmic connection bad. For me it has been fullfilling and provided me with a lot insight on how a relationship should be for me. Fun, growing and being at peace. If people are in karmic relationships and beating themselves up because it is not going the way they want.. then yes “get out”. I think God brings these relationships to us, maybe from a past life, but God needs us to learn something to improve the current or meet the one that will utilize all that we have learned. I just don’t understand how relationships can function without have a complete connection physically. If you don’t understand that part then relationships will go sour! Just my Virgo / Libra rising interpretation. I may not hear from my karmic connection again but all I can say is he taught me a lot. I will miss the freedom to be me and fully love the way I did with him but it was a great connection.

      1. virgo, then you have had a great blessing, but not everyone does and maybe people go along experiencing just what you have for many years and then one days … oops… bang and the pain comes.

        Somethimes what we want to do is settle the karma from the past and instead we wind up creating new and stronger karma.

        Some people are happy being on the wheel, ie living in the illusion and some people want to pierce the illusion and know the reality behind the Maya. Every new partner often has the effect of binding us more strongly to the illusion, more strongly into karma.

        Everyone has there own unique path, and the goal of my work is to help each in there own way.

      2. aqualeoscorpmn

        This is def me wanting to pierce the illusion and I have done so, with my mercury in pisces I think that placement has already learned pretty quickly the nature between dreams and “real life” also In my studies of psychoactive plant compounds speak of the same thing.

        So that is another way I look at my partners now as being illusionary. I still treat them with the same respect, but I always treat all of my life as.. Well its an illusion, would you want to be so hurt over what is not truly there, or so angry or so serious? Of course I have my days where I get so overwhelmed with the Kama and you just that day so believe its really happening.

        Also when I experienced the WTC collapsing I kept saying this is not happening, and this is a common response for most. But we dont realize how true it really is. It makes me think well why do I want to fight the good fight then? If its not real? Well I guess that is part of my kama I have a desire in this lifetime to help some of the people in the illusion and help them as well as myself see its an illusion.

        Feelings sex all these things are important but becareful not to worship, because all will reveal its self to be illusionary in nature.

    3. 12th house virgo

      On the differences between how the genders deal wtih powerful emotional connections….I am tempted to go on an academic rant about the origins of the word Lucifer or how the devil grew horns and all the other myths that were about disempowering the Earth Mother Goddess. But I don’t want to imply that “feminine” is being MORE victimized or is holier than “male.” But the truth is our species very systematically sought ways to cut off a woman from her root chi power. And that women now are – I sense – really overwhelmed when a love touches their core and they FEEL how powerful they are. I know my first response to that was to make it about the guy – the relationship – the gatekeeper of my power. I remember working with a healer who told me to fire up my fire chi (fights depression – what a miracle) by thinking lusty thoughts. I got a vision of my father’s face when I tried. I got through the block, and work to embrace the root fire chi. It is healing and powerful and not to be taken lightly. But I do think whereas men are expected to act, women are expected to negotiate relationship. Its not natural, but social conditioning. Both genders are challenged to use their power wisely. And women need to accept their power, not seek ways to give it away. I haven’t had sex in years, but I have no lack of lust. It doesn’t control me. I don’t control it. It just is part of being vitally alive.

    4. Re: Evananda – Your post addresses a lot of good points…. I would also add that due to the pace of society and the era that we now live in (with technological advancement), the wisdom of ‘listening’ to the body is confused with the ‘idea’ of sexuality and sexual satisfaction. Usually a young adult will be thrown into a state of flux trying to understand what their body truly needs, and the sexual images/expectations deemed normal by societal standards. Society (unknowingly) plays off sexual desire as an entitlement; or an ‘exploration’ which doesn’t come with spiritual/or ‘higher’ responsibility. This only becomes confusing for the individual, who then continues through life and relationships without understanding the power and responsibility (both physical and spiritual), that is part of a sexual connection with another individual. Perhaps part of ‘the shift in consciousness era’ will be to become more informed of the vital role that mind, feeling (aka spirit) and body play in forming truly satisfying (and evolved) sexual partnerships for both men and women. For as it is now, it appears that there is a lot of angst on both sides! Bonne Chance.

      1. 12th house virgo

        Miu – SUCH a great comment. I have high hopes that Saturn in Scorpio will bring more understanding to surface. Its time for evolved understanding of sexual energy.

      2. 12th House Virgo: A time of transformation… “The Alchemy of Sexual(ity)”. Perhaps too, your book will be part of this exploration(?), or aid in it. Virgo is committed to being ‘of service’, and in the 12th house you can be ‘of service’ in helping other individuals understand their kama/karmic responsibilities. Your contribution on this blog is an example…*smile.

  30. you know i have been wondering if neptune affects this stuff… i am by no means an astro-afficionado but my friend just lost her crazy-man at the same time that i seem to have found one. just at the point neptune does a change of scene… i wonder you know, delusions etc.
    out of character and never seen before for both of us…
    i think there is some fancy psych stuff going on in these situations that mystic does well to steer clear of… zapping someone unexpectedly and repeatedly until their emotional range reduces to pleasure or pain, and it IS either one or the other, is some kind of serious business not for mere mortals to shift alone! ….and methinks love and acceptance combined with constant reminders that the real world and other options are still out there is the best help you can give. thumbs up mystic

  31. Something else that helped me unravel my ‘need’ for lurve n affection from one male was to soak it up in whatever form it came in from all of my friends. Aesthetic appreciation? Look my best, send out the compliments and accept with grace the ones that come my way. Cuddles? well, hug someone. Missing a man in my life? how about I get busy enjoying the company of all the divine men who I already know and share my life with as friends? etc… building a home from what is already on your block seems povvo but makes for something beautiful and we utilise and appreciate what was always there, in new and creative ways.

      1. luv it Pi – building a home from what is on your block – reminded me of a dream a while ago in which I did just that and was surrounded by loving kids and other friends – thanks!

  32. yeah.. but two astrologers in the semi obsessive long distances.. tangle against the tide of the world.. their significant others, they should be the ones who know this stuff! What happens to them in this mess?

    Do these two qualify as Love Zombies because its dangerously mutual?

    And they seem to be aware of the risks and even though have never touched before.. are getting dirty looks from their significant others… and.. ah.. just venting. or maybe a cry for help… it may go away one day.. who can say?

    1. 12th house Virgo

      Anon – I have a few simple tips. One – watch the pronouns you use and only talk about what you are feeling. You cannot feel “they.” Just try that as a rule. The only person who can own/sort/understand your feelings is you. Stay centered there. As for what astrologers should know – astology is there to help you understand yourself. Use it as a tool for that – not a tool for projecting control onto challenging situations. You’re in control.

      1. The idea of control is a tricky concept. I can’t control the weather, just how I feel about it. I can not control an earthquake, just makes sense to do what I must or get out of its way..

        But to defend one’s self against or to control one’s self concerning love.. a love that feels on a completely different level than anything I have encountered in my life.. and not to share that, and yet have someone echo the exact same thing back to me. Is there an echo.. or is it a feedback loop. I am true to how I feel. Honest to how I feel. I can not control how another person feels..

        It feels very dangerous whatever this is because it feels like the offer one can not refuse without the consequences of the universe’s power.. an awesome power.

        I would like to believe I’m not dreaming this either.

        And you are right, the way I used my words is something to watch out for. A “they” is me stepping back as watching these two.. in the 3rd person..

        I think this is a Virgo tactic to avoid the truth of the depth of feeling I have, but I could be wrong.

        But thank you for responding to my cry for help. 🙂

      2. 12th house virgo

        You can’t control your feelings. Not about the weather, not about anything. But that doesn’t mean they have to control you. Hard lesson, but one of rapid evolution. Stay true to your core, don’t speak in they, and – yes – the magic is real although the relationship may never be. Have faith, being open hearted is a challenge, to be hurt over and over again. And these big loves just rip your heart right open so that it can never fully close again. It would be sad to make all that power about a semi or entirely un available guy.

  33. i don’t know anything about love, cept that it’s sorta irrational and just happens, and that whatever i get myself into or not into – it’s my responsibility, that is all.

  34. I’ve been wading through Plutonic sludge for several years, and during that time I’ve really had to learn what mystic has SO clearly outlined in this post.

    So here’s how my ‘cure’ happened:

    The tipping point came last year when I had a dream. In this dream, I got a clear look at my interactions with a certain distant and actually, quite mean man who i was a love zombie for. A voice explained to me very clearly that this was a father issue- I waited so hard for him to call or email, worked so hard to get any small attention. My father died when I was very young and of course, I couldn’t ever reach him.

    So I went from cursing and crying, and letting him play the most terrible games with me, to a kind of release. I mean, he was really a f-wit.

    My desire to be acknowledged by any man, especially those who withdraw and dole out their attention, is still strong. And I certainly meet these men above all others. But I’ve flipped over the line – but I know where it’s coming from and I accept it in myself, not projecting it out in a delusional ‘love’. I know some women who can’t stop this, and in the long term it’s harmful.

    The issue is going to be a little different for each woman, and thinking about parent issues, well, it’s challenging. For those seeking an exit from the mud, listen to your dreams (literally), look at your difficult family stuff, and stop the compulsive contacts, searches as you are able. I read a chapter outline of ‘hes just not that into you’ and boy was it sobering. Freedom can be had!

    1. This is precisely how I crawled out from the bottom of the sh!tfest, running from 2008 to 2010 in a “relationship” that demolished my self-respect – it was all about parental validation and approval I failed to receive during my childhood.

      1. Several years after I’d woken up and moved on from my delusional belief in a connection that was not real with a guy, I looked back and was chilled to note the similarities the ‘relationship’ had, with my relationship to my mother.

        Let’s see: both of he and my mom were unavailable emotionally but occasionally threw me a bone, both were self- obsessed, both were happy to let me do things for them but not cut me loose, both had no interest in getting to know me. Because my mom was geographically unavailable I picked someone similar to work through the issues. Giving her/him more chances to just step up and see me!!

        I must admit I was enabled by a mall psychic, lol. I have never been to one since. If
        someone’s actions aren’t treating you right,
        forget the tarot cards! Buy a bus ticket and

        As others have said, we work thru issues and learn. It’s ok.

        And it’s great for Mystic to give tough love and also for her to have a small vent, who wouldn’t?

      2. I second the “If someone isn’t treating you right, forget the Tarot cards! Buy a bus ticket and bail!”

  35. lovestruckgoddess

    i had an obession with someone ridiculously inappropriate lasted for ages would flare up and die down and then up again over time. i finally got to meet them and there was nothing there – well durr – like dorothy meeting the wizard of oz – but i couldnt see what the pont of the obession was – all that energy ? i was having pluto con venus at the time but at the end of it all it all seemed so pointless – i dont get why i had it ? to find out i was obsessional ? i already knew that !!! anybody got any thots ? sighs.

    1. Oh, I’ve definitely been there. Pluto is squaring my Venus right now and I fell in “infatuation” with someone totally inappropriate as well. I also didn’t think there was anything great about that person after getting to know them, but for some reason, something really buried deep down kept telling me that I should like/be with this person.

      I wish I had some valuable insight into this, but I’m trying to figure it out myself as well. Just wanted to say that I’ve been there too and that you’re definitely not alone.

      1. lovesick goddess

        thank u – good luck with the square on your venus only thing i can say is its forced growth – which meands goodbye to any crap in your life ! i guess – like i didnt really like the person and i am pretty sure they would have found me to be a judgemental prat but something inside just kept pushing thro. other times obsession/infatuation did make sense, this time not.

  36. Pisces with Sagg Rising

    I’ve just read this thread and I’ve had a bit of a think, especially about the Love-Zombie thing which is exclusive to women and I have this to say:

    I had a friend once who told me that she had been involved with a man who was abusive. She got out of the relationship reasonably quickly (less than a year). She also made the observation that when she at uni studying psychology and did the unit on abusive relationships, she wondered why the women involved didn’t just leave. Then she was involved in an abusive relationship and she found that she felt so ashamed she had to keep it to herself.

    Basically, people are very judgemental and that’s why some people can’t let go. They hold on and hold on hoping she can say or do the right thing to turn it into a functional relationship, thereby validating the time and energy she has put into it.

    I would also say that once upon a time, the relationship probably seemed promising at the start and not at all mental.

    Also that this is a female thing doesn’t make us women look good, until you remember a certain type of man who tries to control and possess a woman, and then when she leaves him, murders her.

    Compared to that, holding on against all commonsense doesn’t seem so quite so bad.

    1. I don;t know if the original post was all about abusive relationships somehow……..I read that it’s about women wanting reassurance from someone who might just be able to give them the (wrong) answer they hope to hear, because their nearest and dearest won’t agree with their choice in who they have ‘succumbed’ to. Succumbing doesn’t always mean physical abuse.

      Maybe it’s just circumstances (such as marriage, or postions of power at work) that can create the emails from these women. They know it’s wrong, they just hope someone will support their effort in self-justifiction.

    2. interestingly enough, my best friend just came out of an abusive relationship, and I was absolutely shocked that she didn’t tell me what was going on until after the break up. i’ve always known her to be starkly real, open, honest, and bad ass, and she didn’t come from a screwed up family. what happened? her explanation was that it was “it’s like the frog that doesn’t realize the water is getting hotter till its already boiling”. he started off a certain way, they co-deluded, and then one day he was punching her and she totally bought that she “made him too mad”. then: BAM. she got it. and bailed. Luckily in just a week’s time. so my point is…there are a LOT of grey areas in these things. Even the smartest ladies might slip and not see the forest for the trees. in the end it comes down to : do you learn? will you make the same mistake again? I certainly hope not.

      1. It is a lot like the frog being slowly boiled and you can start to question your own sanity. It sucks.

      2. My third marriage turned out abusive, When I realized this, I immediately went to a shrink and asked, What the hell was my probelem that got me into this? I was told I had done nothing wrong, I had been caught by a crafty psychopath. He was very dangerous (many guns and many threats) and it took me some time to escspe, but I did it.

        When I suggest to women who have gotten into these things to move (the fuq) ON, it’s not because I lack understanding; I was there, after all. It is a choice to immediately choose to look at the situation differently. I do not talk about the situation anymore or even think about it. Why? Because it no longer matters. The experience doesn’t keep me bound to it and talking about it. Healing is when it’s gone, and getting it gone means getting over it.

        Time does matter, and if it is taking someone too long to heal, get help, not people who surround you with sympathy.

      3. Pisces with Sagg Rising

        Am abusive relationship is the most extreme example but a lot of people just get caught in less than ideal relationships and know that they should know better but stay stuck in the hope it will come good as they’ve invested a lot in it. I think that is what I’m trying to say.

        But if everyone around you is kind of rolling their eyes and wondering why you can’t see it for what it is, that’s where the shame/embarrassment comes in and the hope against hope that you can change him/her.

  37. LOL! What a great post. Glad to have read the posts before writing – don’t have anything novel to add. Been there done that, Mystic grabbed me the first time she said “it is not about him, it is about you”

    Boy was she right ever. When detachment lingers behind, you need a mantra to stay focused. Find whatever has been going haywire in your life and the idea of an unrequited/perfect/karma goes away.

    It is hard but sometimes you have to burn first. Thank the person later on for unintentionally helping your evolution.

    I got slapped by so many wise women in my life – some of whom are here – that is the way I see how sisterhood works.

    now my problem is – how do I cut off the leech? Not responding at his time of need I thought would be rude but as I see my time was taken for granted yet another round. Mystic housewitch cure tells me mugwort (sp?) not available where I live. Any suggestions to launch the “once karmic now I see a leech” person back to universe?

    1. a cutting ties ritual?

      visualise the person, start drawing a blue line in a figure of eight that crosses over their right hand shoulder towards you, and encompasses you both, each in your own circle of the 8, do for as long as necessary to get strong lines, hours, days, weeks, and then when ready, snip at the conjunction point so that you separate, each in your own blue circle ….

      (a rough retelling)

      1. Yes, something like this. I had been visualizing the person in a boat, sending the boat away on a river with candles all over, and the next thing you know, he is back in my life, whining about his job, etc.

        Perhaps cutting ties should be repeated several times over – he used up almost all my quota of sincere “go away” intention.

        Oh yes, karma as Mystic post above says:: My Uranus conj his SN, my SN conj his Moon.. Once the ‘karmic relation’ veil drops, it turns to be “what was I thinking?” kind of experience..

  38. yes l think people, some people just need to be love zombies sometimes….the love zombies want and need to do it in order to learn …it’s part of their own make-up..
    jeeez this is too complex for a blog anyhow

    l also understand MM because she just wants YOU love zombies to wake up from zombiehood and have a great happy LIFE! simple!
    love yourself blahblahblah…

    It takses freaking time to refine your energies it took time to refine mine… it can takes years indeed to wake up evolve etc…. pheeew! l have been sort of a love zomnbie when l was in puberty argh!!!
    l needed everything l went through!!
    l do not regret anything! it was part of me and nobody could have stopped me….yay!

    good luck to everyone with their problems!!

    1. something else l’ve learned about fate/destiny is that all your uncounsious drives will come to you in disguise of fate 🙂

  39. aqualeoscorpmn

    lol that kid is a Sagi- he she she he actually makes alot of sense about alot of stuff, you should watch some of the other videos. Wow he tells it like it really is, within the bounds of what he knows. Interesting watching him shatter gender paradigms though.

    1. chris crocker! I LOVE HIM. He must have a strong pisces thing…in one video he describes the emotional world as two fish swimming in circles and he never mentions astro anywhere!

      1. aqualeoscorpmn

        Yea its been cool watching him evolve, and hes quite the litmus test as to how far back our society still is. Even im having a hard time deciding what to call him, as of now I see him being just the guy.. but In terms of those issues, even I didnt know trans people had that much to face.

        But hes so to the point- the video of him going through what his grandma was eating was so funny… He will probably get astrology later in life. Hes still pretty young.
        But I do remember doing his noon chart..

        If he was born right after noon then he would be Pisces ASC, But he has NN as Pisces, A Cancer Moon, Sun, Merc, Saturn, and Uranus all Sagi, Neptune and Venus in Cap, mars and Pluto in Scorp. & jupiter in Aries..

      2. wow, badass! Sagittarius idealism. i dig it!!!! and a cancer moon, too. awww (what else can you say to cancer moon?)

  40. Hi Davidl

    Not really ego, just delusion.

    My brief embarrassing time as a fool came when I just needed something happy to believe in when my family was imploding. ( Parents and sister). So I ignored my intuition to cling to a fairy tale. Just a lost young person. But I learned a powerful lesson to obey intuition. 🙂 which I now do. And embrace reality no matter how tuff.

  41. Scorporation, Inc.

    PIA Bitch 1: I’m alone because it’s good for me! Fuck!

    PIA Bitch 2: There, there. Have some cake, sweetie.

  42. this is a great diversion from my PhD thesis – doing pomodoro technique and coming back to the blog after 25 mins of writing – and much healthier than worrying about AWOL crush or the exes lining up to talk, take me out etc.

    1. Same! But the diversion is winning today. I got the pomodoro book a while back, but forgot about it – must try it again. Does reading about time management count as procrastination??

      1. no i reckon reading about time management might count as ‘peripherally supportive’! for pomodoro I simply put the phone timer on for 25 minutes, ignore all browsers, email clients etc and just go for it. Take a 5 min break after every 25 minutes, but try and build to 2 x 25 and then take a break. I have found it really useful.

      2. I’ll have to try this on one of those days where I just can’t stop procrastinating.

        On the other hand, I am not trying hard enough….

      3. I will try it, thanks Q. I was doing the ‘two golden hours’ thing but that has stopped working!!

      4. yeah building up in the 25 minute chunks has helped me – other tricks are to just start with a small chunk, e.g. revising the last bit of work, or commit to doing just 30 minutes. I always love that Goethe quote (he was a virgo) – don’t wait for the mood to act, create the mood by acting.

      5. Ah yes. Goethe would have lost patience with all my Piscean excuses. It would have been: ‘for fuq’s sake, just BEGIN’ lol

        Word counts worked well for me in the ‘big writing’ stage. Now I’m at the small intense labour /revision stage. I focus on consistency, not motivation now, ie just show up and do the thing and eventually I will get there… I hope.. 🙂

  43. Electric Eel Libran

    Man oh man. I’ve been the love zombie many times myself. That’s just how i roll. But honestly, I generally don’t ever talk about it or bother Mystic or anyone else for that matter because i know I can’t stomach the truth, so I DON’T ASK! But why would you want someone to lie to you in the first place? Just because you pay them money? The people we ask for advice do NOT owe us anything. NOTHING, not even sympathy. We ask a stupid question; we get a stupid answer. The universe is cruel and unfair. Get over it. As a Libran, I find this hard to swallow, but I have gradually accepted this instead of trying to see reality through rose-tinted glasses.

    I’m ashamed most of the time because i know it’s wrong and i know i can’t do anything about it. Time heals things. It’s the only thing that’s worked so far. That and avoidance and fantasy crushes that lead nowhere. Much much safer.

    The real truth about men and dating is that if you have to ask anybody about anything that seems sketch or unsure, that means the relationship is messed up. The answer 99% of the time is to dump him because you as a woman have no power to convince him otherwise. (For some reason men are advised the opposite which is to chase the woman until he is blue in the face, but that only gets him a slap from me because once I’ve decided to move on, it’s for real & permanent.) Sexist bullshit for sure, but still the reality we live in and must accept.

  44. Pi, thank you for reminding me to read “Women Who Run With the Wolves.”

    I read that soon after a guy decided he didn’t want to see me anymore.
    “Goddesses in Every Woman.” is good too.

    1. l liked these books!
      If people are so much into karma they can try :: Astrology, Karma & Transformation: The Inner Dimensions of the Birth Chart by STEPHEN ARROYO
      it might help more then emailing etc…the books can serve as theraphy for the troubled souls out there :))

  45. Hey i am thinking of doing a range of shirts….What do you think of these?

    Paleo Capricorn
    Not The Typical Virgo
    Ramzilla To The Max
    Psuedo Intellectual Astro Bitch


    1. Mercurial harp

      Great idea. I love them! 🙂 I’d buy all, except for Capricorn. Great for gifts, and great to wear, mood dependent.

    2. Scorporation, Inc.

      Way to work opportunity. So ZZ compliant!

      I’ll have one PIAB in plutonic pink, please. That’s for my Libra biz.

      Can I request a, “You don’t scare me: I’m having a Saturn transit” tee? Or, “Scorpio death ray” with some kind of ’70s laser graphics?

      1. yes please – great idea Mystic – love the additional suggestion of “you don’t scare me I’m having a saturn transit” and can we have something plutonic such as “Currently phoenixing – Pluto depth charge”

      2. i would like a non fickle libran in a wife beater – large and is there any possibility of a not afraid to commit aquarian in a polo-neck? xxx

        good to see your smokin lips lovely

      3. o god you definitely had me at “not afraid to commit aquarian in a polo-neck”

      4. hahaha. awesome. Love you too babes.

        I shall get one too for the aqua, only in spirit as he is not into astrology at all, on that note:

        aquarians that don’t believe in aquarius as a meaning but do believe in science fiction and aliens…

      1. Haha, actually the rose quartz is on my night-stand in the hope it can fix my love life. Obvs being a PIAB I’m trying that before I resort to honest conversation and articulating my needs, lolol 🙂

    3. HotAir (sagg4gem2lib4)

      Sounds fab! I would be stuck for choice. I have been in a Love Zombie – enmeshed in something I needed to walk away from. Looking back, I think it was never love to begin with. It was my fixation on an ideal of a person or a scenario when that person or scenario was something else entirely. I like to think that next time I will get it right, but I am not going out of my way to identify a next time. I am pretty wary of myself these days, so what happens happens, and in the meantime I am peacefully single. (And no, I have never written to Mystic about any of them, as that was before I discovered the site!).

      1. I’d prefer one of those hands that you stick on the rear window that wobbles when you turn corners only with the middle finger raised and pseudo intellectual astro bitch on board printed on it please!

        … psuedo intellectual astro bitches happen?

      2. Mercurial harp

        ha, if we’re talking bumper stickers than we also need to work fridge magnets into the mix! 🙂
        Also, vampires and zombies could also be worked into the design.

    4. I can see lots of merchandise with MM astro slogans. i’d like an astro slogan coffee mug. They’d make great gifts, too.

    5. tati scorpitini

      So for the Scorp one I propose: available in a choice of black or red, with the words embroidered on the inside, so that nobody can see them except for the wearer, who just *knows* that they are there.
      Something about sex-death-obsession, nothing too intense lol

      1. we already are that T shirt. Maybe something cryptic and flat like


        in several shades out of the fabric? possibly flocked (very short) or is that too vaginal with the inside out idea?

        Scorpio with a T shirt that says everything on the inside in blood and outside just says one word to summarise that particular moment.

      2. Oh, s***! How did you know?

        I’m not actually a Scorpio, but I do have a Scorpio Moon and a very, VERY dominant Pluto and multiple planets in the 8th house. My actual nickname is “Stealth” and I own a shirt very similiar to the one you speak of/imagined. The shirt itself is dark red (wasn’t intentionally going for the “blood-y” look, perhaps it was some Freudian/subconscious thing) and simply says “MAGNETIC” on the side seam in small black lettering. Although, on the front it has the weird devil-horned, “M” -looking Scorpio symbol in black as well. It’s pretty upfront and I usually only wear it to bed or to make coffee (black of course; cream & sugar is for those Starbuck’s types who see coffee as a fashion statement). One day, a couple of years ago, I decided to turn the shirt inside and write down in black sharpie (it didn’t bleed through because the shirt was oddly thick) a specific date that has been my catalyst for change. Coincidentally, it happened during a time (back in 2010) when both Venus and Mars were in Scorpio activating my Moon. Chiron was conjunct Neptune opposing my Ascendant (which natally conjunct Chiron, opposite Saturn and square Pluto). Saturn was opposing my Venus and Pluto was/is squaring my Venus. Beside that specific date, I have written: “We avoid risks in life, so that we can make it safely to death.”

        Wow, you just made me realize how secretly Scorpio I am!

    6. Yes yes yes! I am dying for Mystic merch. I want a coffee cup too …

      Can you also do an iphone app where our passwords can be stored? Been stuck in a plane for a few days and i just wanted to access the site on my iphone quick & easy. Happy to pay for it.

      Gosh – this is really quite a zappy discussion – after being away for a few days – 24th of june. Anyway great – everyone can be honest and have their authentic opinions. For me – after being somewhat delusional in past relationships myself I’m so grateful for the help/guidance/support and reality checks I had from Mystic. I learnt SO much. Key factor is we are all here to grow – this site helps me do that.

      So bring on the Mystic Mousepads, socks and te shirts!!

  46. Scorporation, Inc.

    You know, sometimes you just need to vent. We spend hours and hours listening to/watching people– usually women– running their heads and hearts into walls, and it’s exhausting to witness. It’s more exhausting when you’ve tried and tried to help, and your efforts feel futile. Helpers are human, and they have limits. It’s most healthy to vent with others who get where you’re coming from and won’t mistake your reasonable frustration with heartlessness; it’s damaging to lose your composure like a volcano toward the very people you sincerely intend to help. So yeah: venting with others is healthy, and a coping skill that averts a lot of bigger issues later.

    I find Mystic’s post a blend of venting and humor. I find Mystic human. “Counseling” others can be the most rewarding work ever; at the same time, it can also be the most psychically and emotionally draining work you’ll ever know. Venting and having a laugh is telling: if it wasn’t hard work, if you didn’t give a shit, you wouldn’t have it to rant about.

  47. that should be an automated message.

    I love this, exactly how I would say reality check> ?
    I get scared enough from here, can’t imagine the inbox.

  48. Obviously I must rise from the dead to weigh in non? Having been in le grips of Sewerage. I’m personally not comfortable using the term Love Zombie for myself as I was neither a zombie nor deluded..I was something else entirely, not that this is a defense of itself.

    I think when peeps resort to astro to answer a question they usually already know the answer to (in reference to situations clearly delineated above), the point isn’t so much that the truth is debatable i.e. clearly this is a go-nowhere situation, but that perhaps the delusion itself has a purpose. Often deeply buried beliefs and assumptions we have about ourselves, secretly harbored fears, inexplicable attractions to the wrong things – even familial legacies of co-dependency and relationship MOs cannot be outed unless thru the throes and consequence of such a situation.

    The desperate reaching for answers is already indicative that this searching is often a delay and a distraction from the truth. In fact, even pain relief. And detaching isn’t immediately possible because we do not have the same capacity for detachment in different situations – if we did we would all be our goal weight. Often, the face value issue (he’s married/on crack/etc.) carries with it the destruction of a good number of dreams, comfort zones and self beliefs we cannot easily give up. So it is not simply one thing you’re leaving, but a whole set of things.

    The reaction of anger to being told to detach while being argued on that basis (no I can’t detach because well, our synastry says no or something), is really a lashing out to not being understood, seen, or just as well, a refusal to admit the impending death of all the other dreams/beliefs /way of being associated with the situation. I’m saying therefore, that you can just as well tell someone in such a desperate clutch that a magical space ship full of stampeding unicorn will come once proxima centauri kisses the sun – and they may not say it then and there, BUT they will definitely be mulling the “positive” news with silent suspicion.

    They already KNOW this is not good, the question is just a stab in the dark while they wait for light to break.

    It’s a fever that must be ridden out, and trying to convince people whilst their amidst this, is really well..not going to be as effective as one would hope for it to be. If things had got to this point, hopefully they can grit their teeth thru the worst of it and mine it for the real prize: reclaiming one’s self into fully forming and individuating with CHOICE and thru experience vs what we unconsciously knee jerk into due to the hand we’re dealt in life.

    By contrast, there are just as many peeps quietly going along subverting their delusions into “positive outlets” but these nonetheless remain. Cynicism which is much less criticized for it’s supposed wisdom and caution can just as much be an escape as any other folly. In the end, only we can do the slow and arduous work of staring at our dirtied, darkened windows, till the day we get up and carefully clean it. We all go through it and I consider it a painful yet glorious gift of our humanity that we can still make fantastic discoveries about ourselves through the most disappointing and heartbreaking circumstances.

    If some do it quicker than others, then great..but there’s always something each person gets a little stuck on. In my own experience, my staying had started as an impetus to make it work, to discover this other person fully thru all the deception but as it went on, it really became about meeting the person I was becoming at thru it. It also helped me realize I could survive what I’d secretly feared and seen played out so many times in my childhood – both infidelity and marriage.

      1. Once again, your writing on this dark topic is exceptional and hard-won, I know, but truly great work getting at what makes this part of us tick and the dark benefit of true metamorphosis which comes at a cost–a high cost.*more applause*

    1. I’m in my pain or delusion and want acceptance of the legitimacy of this place….well, I ‘spose it’s legitimate because it’s where they are, and perhaps they can’t move from there yet, but then perhaps they can. I knew two women who had both lost children. Neither of them could move past their grief, though it did serious harm to the people around them. They both took the stance that others “didn’t understand.” I think others understood just fine. I was in a position of counsel to the daughter of one of the women. This little girl wanted to know why she didn’t count to her mother, only her dead brother did. Ethics and psychology both come into play on these issues. At what point is a person no longer capable of making rational decisions about their behavior?

      1. I do think some people never come out of such an psyche-existential crisis. That’s why it puts people off. It is dark and therefore scary territory and why MM would advise a shrink if she senses they are floundering. We all have a latent sense that a person’s ship may be going down. We can hand over a life raft or some other object or bit of wisdom which might be of use but looking in from the outside we see that they are on their own counsel and it’s up to them and their ability to survive–unfortunately. We can’t undo someone else’s delusions. That is very scary to consider because it reflects back to each one of us the same dilemma.

    2. At what point – in the situations you point out, I’d defer to the professionals. In those cases, there’s definitely an ethical, even legal issue of fitness.

      There’s a difference when people start using their delusion as a reason and an excuse not to do what their life demands – in terms of those responsibilities such as children etc. And when they’re processing a bad relationship choice exclusive of that.

      But to be clear, I was specifically addressing the situations in Mystic’s post and my own.

      1. Yes, and you do make a good point about needing acceptance when we are doing the best we can. What a wonderful gift when we are less than our best and it’s ok. That’s a very healing place. I have seen so much destruction through even the delusional behavior Mystic talks about that I’m sure that makes me more “heavy” on this subject. Kicking people in the arse is what I do, and a ram isn’t a ram if they’re not ramming something, I suppose. 😉

    3. nice one, FA. what I interpret from your comment is the deeply personal nature (of course) of getting bogged in a certain relationship scenario, and also the deeply personal ways that we each need to pick our way OUT of the scenario(s). Also, the way that there’s usually a ‘job lot’ of ‘issues’ or ideas that get busted in the process, depending on a few things.

      I noticed that you used cynicism there too – I had a little image of someone facing some troubles, and seeing what they think is a short-cut part way through – so they zip down that only to realise that it’s a dead end and they accidentally turned down ‘Cynicism Lane’! ie it seems to solve problems but really gets us nowhere

    4. “It’s a fever that must be ridden out, . . ”

      Except perhaps when you’re doing it again. When you’re doing it again, you’re doing it wrong as far as I’m concerned. Loathe as I am to suggest it’s probably hormones too. The brain fortunately is amazing plastic. I think it’s a mood, a state of being, a melancholy, that can be ‘snapped out of’ (sounds cruel but is sweet relief) by a simple rearrangement of a few billion synapses, even the ones controlling the hormones. You just have to want to and really decide that it’s going to happen. And be bored by your own behaviour. And have ‘been there’ before.

      I’ve been reading David Eagleman’s ‘Icognito’. It’s remarkable.

      Interesting thread . . .

    5. 12th house virgo

      ” it a painful yet glorious gift of our humanity that we can still make fantastic discoveries about ourselves through the most disappointing and heartbreaking circumstances.”

      So beautifully put!

    6. Oh, thanks guys (blushing)..but you know Pluto 101 does deliver mass insights.

      Link mentioned repetitive behavior and Pi had commented on my noting cynicism as yet another path.. I’m high lighting both because in essence this goes hand in hand with what I would call (not my term originally) being a dry drunk.

      It is true that people can subconsciously love what seems to entangle them, whether it’s a type of relationship, a problem, a situation, as well as their Methodology (delusion, angsting, dramatizing, denying, being stoic, pretending it doesn’t matter) of dealing with it, that hard as it may be to understand, there seems to be some benefit to their identification and embodiment of that. This is really when you see repetition – because it’s not a single incident, it’s a way of believing and being.

      Even if on the other hand, the person doesn’t talk about their former issue per se, their treatment of it can indicate how they are present with this now quiet force in their life. We all know that even if we leave our pasts behind, it takes time to unrobe ourselves of its detritus. Usually because we can only find it as we face aspects of ourselves as we live our lives forth for ex. deciding in theory not to trust men gets it’s real test when one gets involved with someone who’s willing to earn that trust.

      Link very correctly points out the value of what I’d call a circuit breaker – a tiny detour that could grow into a bigger path away from being one thing into another. I’ve had the privilege of knowing many bright, beautiful and immensely kind women whom I’ve seen go through this, it was rarely an issue of them not knowing what needed to be done but rather of being ready to.

      If we evacuate parts of ourselves that indulge a weak state then it can only follow that we ought nurture the now empty space into a fullness of strength. We coax the last stubborn child out of hiding and make it ok to grow up that way, to finally let go.

  49. Haven’t read above comments–have to fly. It’s a bit sad huh? I’ve been there with the unrequited love and it hurts so much that you think it ought mean something greater, something fated. Well . . . Yes. And. No. There will always been an astro link to it but even if you know what it is it doesn’t change the fact that whoever you are pining for isn’t going to change anytime soon, so best work towards not-obsessing. That can be life changing, in itself– learning how to change the way you think and short-circuit the pain. Release it in more creative ways, something physical and alpha usually. Generally we delight too much in our suffering to willingly sacrifice it.

  50. Oh LOLZ I’m totally guilty of being a love zombie at times, usually it’s when I’m really anxious and it becomes a control mechanism, trying to stay one jump ahead and have ‘all the knowledge’. I think when you’re interested in astro and tarot it’s an easy trap to fall into. Totally agree that there are massive limits though, I know when I’m feeling obsessivey these days and just back away from it all for a while. Do love a good bleat around these parts though, some truly superbly helpful advisors over the last few years.

  51. how deep it goes

    This is too funny! Sad too, though, cause I’ve been one of those girls!
    You are so right, Medusa. If it’s a one-sided affair then gf’s gotta start looking within instead of outside of herself. Lol, and I’m def venus/pluto.
    That nodes connection can be powerful stuff, or so we hope! I still wonder… 😉

  52. The saying goes: ‘one falling tree makes more noise than a whole forrest growing. So when will we start paying attention to the whispering of a growing tree or garden?’

    There are plenty of strong / heroic / rebellious / independent / free thinking / atypical / self sufficient / emancipated / unconventional / firery women, you know, instead of drawing attention to representations of women as foolish, needy, unbrilliant.

    There are plenty of women who are their own Zap Zone, doing zap zone things independently where they are known (or want to be known) for something other than a good or bad relationship with a man.

    I don’t buy into the rubbish that women are socialised to accept – ie., that their life goal is to form relationships with men which will come to secure and define their destiny /happily ever after / their identity-role-worth-place in the world. I think mostly because I am frustrated and humiliated by these ideas and I have always had uncommon views out of step with popular perceptions of me as a gal. I only realised in my early teenage years how different my thinking is to other people on this matter, and my views do not make my life an easy one.

    Perhaps men are going elsewhere to ask the same questions about the same dilemmas?

    Perhaps men are sending you emails posing as a needy women?

      1. Hehe, that cracked me up !!! Actually thought about it and went to Hitchcock …grey curly wig, round specs and lovely knee length floral dress ….comfy shoes.

      2. aqualeoscorpmn

        Lol It wasn’t me, I always say for myself what Ive learned and now tell women, stop looking up to men, and start looking at them.

        Astrology helps you to do this, If its not well there missing its point of transcend.

      3. “So you think i’m fruity, eh?” Had to rewind to hear that line clearly from our Norman during last dvd viewing.

    1. “Perhaps men are sending you emails posing as a needy women?” this made me smile – there was a man who had similar issues to those referenced in mystic’s post but he did his outpourings of the zapping right here in the public arena. I’ve never been obsessed about a man in this way due to some quirky astro or my upbringing or whatever but I have had to deal with plenty who are obsessed about me in a similar manner to that discussed above. I’ve had to move house/city a few times because of this kind of thing so there ARE men out there who have these issues – it’s a human thing not a chick thing. I have however been the recipient of one of Mystic’s “you don’t need an astrologer, you need a lawyer” responses over my psychopathic criminal landlord dilemma and she was right about that.

    2. I don’t know that we (women) are being fed the needing a man to happy line anymore, since anyone with an ounce of sense can look around and see that doesn’t work. I think the question is not going to be one of how men and women should relate, but how to form family units. Men and women can do whatever they want, bring children into it and it’s another landscape.

    3. I TOTALLY agree. Although, I’m not going to pretend that I haven’t at one point in my life, temporarily fallen into that trap of waiting for prince charming to come along so my life can start. The time when I was waiting for prince charming, was when I was in a self-made shit hole and was looking for an escape (Neptune transit)….and someone (terribly good-looking) just so happened to come along who fit the bill. That is until harsh reality hit me a.k.a. the bastard was a complete asshole. Then I realized, I just actually had some internal shit-fest going on that needed to be sorted out. That and the Hermit card repeatedly showed up in every Tarot spread I did at the time. But, for the most part, I’ve personally never been one of those girls who knows what flavor of cake or what color theme my wedding is going to be.

      I’m enjoying and totally looking forward to the rest of the zap-zone. I intend to be my very own zap zone.

      Since, there’s a “Saturn Girl”….is it possible we could conjure up a kickass cartoon character called “Zap Zone Girl” or just “ZZ” or “ZZG” for short?

      1. We have it – She is Pseudo-Intellectual Astro Bitch!

        Love Zombie says “karma” – Pseudo-Intellectual Astro-Bitch says “pfft, boring old baggage.”

        Then she goes off to mis-quote Nietsche and do her pelvic floor exercises.

      2. Scorporation, Inc.

        Nietsche. He was all about that survival of the fittest stuff. So awesome.

    4. That last line is one of the funniest things I have read on this blog.

      Seriously though, this type of addiction is not that one sided. There are men who only search for love addicts because they receive the feeling of being wanted without having to maintain intimacy and commitment. They just go back from time to time for refuelling from multiple sources. Because they have a few on the go, they don’t have the time or need to write to Mystic, unless things get a bit out of control. There is a technical term… love avoidance or something like that.

      1. Codependency and it takes two to tango. Men who seek caretakers (like mom) then later resent being care taken and avoid, run, use or abuse.

    5. when men go into dysfunctional zombie mode i think it is more likely to involve compulsive porn etc etc and they’re unlikely to email me about it lol

      1. Just as well, really.

        I think you are right. If I think back to a couple of times where I was trying (an obviously failing) to have a relationship with a man who was an avoider, it was the discovery of the extensive porn collections that broke the spell for me and I fled. One ( a very upper class Englishman) I suspect dealt in it and the other had boxes of teenage porn and a fluffy toy collection.

    6. what is your rising MH? your story sounds eerily like mine and I am a atypical Aqua rising. Always dancing to my own drum. knew from tha age of 16 i wa not going to settle down till i wa 28 tick. spent my 20’s going to all my GF;s weddings, baby showers while i was off round the world etc etc.

      1. Aqualeoscorpmn

        Hey LG you got what i need, your NN is in aqua in the 7th, mine is in the first in leo.

      2. Mercurial harp

        Leo Rising, Libra Sun. It’s the Air sign Sun that’s like your rising, most like 🙂 Aqua and Libra fight the same injustice fights often

    7. 😀

      Posing as needy women! very funny and yes there are millions more examples of women being more heroic and determined a la The Terminator and completely leveling whatever playing field there is. Agree. Love your analogy

  53. Ahhh yes. The truth be told, my first interaction with this website was sending Mystic one of ‘those’ emails.
    For me, I fall for guys so rarely that I get a little caught up in the connection truly meaning something. The man in question was throwing out some mixed signals and MM gave me a good dose of tough love.
    The man still drifts in and out, being all mixed signally, but I am not waiting around for his arrival, nor mind it when he leaves. I am more balanced and even and I think we have a loving friendship. To have more would be stressful and confusing for me.
    I have recently turned down equally unsuitable, yet entirely pretty, men for similar reasons. The realization that these connections are limited are partly special and partly because I am poor at putting myself out there, that these relationships begin when I am at a vunerable stage… Well, it’s good to demystify and recognize the pattern.
    I would have taken much longer to get to this place

    1. Without someone giving me a reality check. So thank you MM

      Apologies for accidentally hitting send before one was quite ready:)

      1. Hi Venus a-go-go, I think what you’ve put here “a loving friendship” is a great step-down escape hatch for a woman who has become a love-zombie. I have definitley had occasion to re-worked that definition (karmic! into karmic-WHAT? into karmic lesson–btw sugar doesn’t help this bitter pill–into “meaningful and maybe necessary” into if this person isn’t actually evil then can I at least in my head think of them as “friend”) and had eventual success. Coming out the other side of these “relationships” with one’s own boundaries in place is rewarding in its own way.

      2. ditto everything, venus- when you rarely get into someone its hard not to take it really seriously!

        And also the mixed signals…have you noticed that it never ends? once a mixed signal, always a mixed signal? (cough…neptune square…cough)

    2. It took years to get out of my first delusional relationship, in the second relationship all I needed was two months to recognize the patterns. Don’t you love when you say ‘aha!’ 🙂

      1. halla frickn lulah to pattern recog – and as MM keeps banging away at don’t go backwards stay stuck and you are fuqued. i have that as my mantra on high rotation at the mo and it is working.

  54. Forgive me, but I find this unfunny and cruel. Blame it on my late libra Saturn work or my Mars in Virgo mulling or hey, maybe it’s just good old’ Venus rx……

    Or maybe it’s just me having zero tolerance for pseudo-intellectual astro-bitches like many of you, but this just sucks. I find it crass, unsophisticated, and judgemental. Yea. There is nothing funny about another woman’s suffering. Low economic status of the woman under scrutiny does not make this okay, either.

    When someone turns to you because a man mistreats them, and this includes evasiveness and not just abuse, you don’t make a witty blog post about it to celebrate your meaningless online reputation. You have some fucking RESPECT! We women need each other… always.

    So stfu and go DO something meaningful.

    1. Ahhh, one of the zombies is all hurt now . This post has nothing to do with mistreatment fool. So why don’t you just kindly Fuq off yourself and take your nasty mind elsewhere.

    2. Mystic’s personal response to these has been kind and patient. The blog post is a wake up call. Sometimes advice is asked for but not listened to; women need each other, but not always to mollycoddle each other into emotional obfuscation – that we can do quite well alone. Realistic perspective is meaningful.

      Mystic’s “snap out of it” is not disrepectful. Your name calling is. The term “psedo intellectual astro bitches” is a gendered insult.

      1. Spicey – do you come in here often? I find this one of the most supportive places on the web, full of women (and some great men) who are wise, giving, and very, very gentle with each other.

        But sometimes, we all need to be told to stop being delusional. And if it takes an astrologer (and why not indeed!) to do this, who better than Mystic.
        Insults are really not tolerated here. If you need to feel like that, can you go somewhere else.

        Personally, having been gulity of being a bath-salts zombie from time to time, I would relish if someone showed up on my doorstep occasionally and just said “get a grip.” But in lieue of a real physical person taking on the job, I find the Oracle to be just the ticket.

      2. not just the Oracle SB to turn to, but all the loving comments on these posts. the get a grip type comments always said gently. I got told before Xmas that my posts were getting cringy. i was a bit miffed but knew it was true and I realised i was in the middle of pre xmas anxiety and made amends.
        So spicy get a grip on the lovin vibe here -or like dl said so eloquently- F off.

      3. Oh yes. The posts are tapping into the collective list of delusions/experiences/disappointments/hopes.

        I keep reading the comments – majority here had been deluded in a pseudo-relation once upon a time, very aware that it may happen again.. What better way than feeling “good, it is only being human after all” 🙂

      4. As that great sister Gloria Steinham once said ‘The truth will set you free – but first it will piss you off.”

    3. Scorporation, Inc.

      Wow! That was hardcore– and it wasn’t me for a change! lol

      Can we talk about money again? To hell with relationship/love/whatever drama: show me the green.

    4. Self-inflicted suffering can sometimes be stemmed by another having the courage to point out someone’s stupidity/lack of self awareness/whatever you want to call it. I am grateful to those who tell me when I am screwing up. But then “pseudo etc etc bitches” isn’t the least bit judgemental, right? So you’d never be caught being crass, etc eh?

      1. Scorporation, Inc.

        Yeah, “pseudo-intellectual astro bitches” is overkill, for sure. Agreed. But so much so, it’s kinda funny, don’t you think? I do.

        Maybe Spicy is a Libran.

        My 8th house is lit up like an xmas tree, and sex is not on my agenda. So, back to money? Anyone?


      2. Money is a good subject, especially other people’s that you jointly use to create solid financial gains for all with. Cancer’s (solar ingress) my 8th, so I’ve been plotting my goals for the next year. Ive been increasing my giving because I think it is a necessary step for gain. Hardly at the level of giving away cars like I used to, but we all have to start somewhere.

      3. Scorporation, Inc.

        Nothing like a fresh start, ArienScorp! Good for you.

        Yeah, that whole concept of money as energy… And creating a reciprocal relationship with energy, to increase the flow… I too think that giving and gratitude are prereq’s for creating abundance. Plus, it’s just really fucking nice, giving and such. Authentic generosity benefits everyone!

        The first sliver of my 8th is in Libra, or “the horns of Scorpio,” as I read recently; the other 95% of my 8th is in Scorp. 4 planets and my Sun are there; 2 conjunctions. I don’t really fully understand (yet) what that means for me presently, but I do know that I can’t stop thinking about the cheddar!

    5. Spicey, having Mystic as my awesome astrologer for yonks, I can personally attest to the fact that one, that email is a compendium of illustrative examples and she would not ever post a personal issue she’s queried on sans the permission of the original writer.

      Two, she DOES in fact pretty TIRELESSLY replies to peeps who write her – mind, she doesn’t have to – there ain’t no financial reward, but she does so in the hopes that imparting the truth i.e. that beyond the esoteric and mystical, this kind of problem definitely requires the aid of a practical solution such as perhaps not taking the offender’s calls. While she summarizes her advice on this post, do trust she answers with sympathy and kindness.

      Women do need each other, I would state that if you’re asking people for advice you also need to be a little prepared for what you may get. I was a complete poster child for a terrible, terrible situation and all the “pseudo intellectual astro bitches” here picked me up and helped me put myself back together again. And no, it wasn’t just a spate of Get Over It/Detach/etc though of course, there were some of that.

      Lastly, it’s hard to call Respect when you broke the rule on it?

    6. You’re missing the point. These women aren’t being mistreated by men. They’re mistreating themselves. They won’t listen to anyone that doesn’t validate their insanity.

      1. You are absolutely right Charles.

        I found the post HILARIOUS! Mostly because for a period of about 15 months, I was one of those women falling off the perch and seemed to have no control over my reactions to a particular male. I was devastated at the time (particularly the way it all ended) but you know what? I wouldn’t have met my husband if I hadn’t gone through what I went through, and I wouldn’t have known how to handle him.

        I had just turned 40 and thought I’d just about gone through the gauntlet on trying on all types for size and never quite fallen for any of them. I thought at the time the ‘relationship’ was ‘karmic’, I thought no one could have any idea what I was going through (the highs were sensational but the lows were akin to coming down from an LSD trip) but I reckon everyone should have a humdinger, mindblowing, riotiously horny relationship at least once in their lives……you haven’t LIVED until you’ve experienced it.

        (in a small voice, just don’t know if I could do it again though….)

    7. I see it like this. My love zombieness is an experience I had to make in order to recognize it later down the road when roles are reversed.

      Also, afraid I have to agree, the oracle does enable love zombieness, even crafty ones that use it to check their own emotional state via the reaction to the answers. Haha.

      Oh btw, IF I go off the assumption that oracle is accurate and 8 out of 10 times it says “Yes” then maybe it is “Yes”? Or can wishful thinking manipulate it? Is this my Virgo Moon or my Aquarius asking? And do I really care?

      Gosh what would I ever do without him, I’d still be a bloody vegetable feeding online gaming escapist addiction instead of becoming a jedi-knight.

      1. P.S. In defense of the Oracle, there are some awesomely empowering answers in there too.

        I really liked “How about X proves themselves a bit more first” – it made me go all “Hell yes, you better start spinning bitch if you want to feed of my attention”

        Or “Stop fantasizing below your weight”.

        Or paraphrased “Change your hair and he’ll come running.” Wth? Eff that, I like my hair as it is.

        Or “Honey, don’t you think you are punching above your weight”. Sorry, but no. No way that could be the case.

        You get it, I tried it a gazillion times 😛 Hahahaha

    8. MM YOU ROCK. i concur. Actually what I don;t get is why these peeps even email you at all. Like you ahve all the time to give out free advice. wt?
      I have been a LZ from time to time but I would never email you to ask for advice. If i am that bad I go pay for a shrink to get my own life together and then I can enjoy your wonderful blog even more.

    9. 12th house virgo

      Domestic Triffid – will you please teach me the astro-bitch dance? LOL! You can tell me to snap out of it anytime!

      1. You put your left pointer in
        You put your left pointer out
        You put your left pointer in
        And you shake it all about

        You raise your right eyebrow
        And you roll your eyes

        That’s what it’s all about

    10. 12th house virgo

      “Next: Where was the insult to women of low socio economic status? I don’t get that. Obviously if you have less budget you will have to drink paint stripper crap wine and then turn up in person to stalk, possibly with a poor complexion. Whereas a cashed up Love Zombie can drink Moet, do Space Dust and Power-Stalk from the comfort of her own home. I get that. ”

      Holy fuq, MM, I LOVE you!

    11. Spicey, why come back as another person pretending to support yourself ? Read what you said and get off your high horse love, you don’t tell people to shut the fuck up on their own blog fool, and expect to get away with it. You are so deluded its sad.

    12. besides. life would be really boring with romantic perfection. personally, I secretly like a bit o drama . otherwise we’d all be wearing neatly pressed jeans with sensible shoes, working out what to do with our long-service leave, agreeing on everything, not listening to music that sparks intense emotion because we’re all just so damn HAPPY and PEACEFUL … le’ts hold hands and sing ! BLuurrgghhhhh


    13. So true re poetry, Pi. I read this quote from Willie Nelson ages ago:
      “99 per cent of the world’s lovers are not with their first choice. That’s what makes the jukebox play.”

    14. Hi youbetyourwrasse, I see what you mean, it is a bit harsh to tell someone to F off because they disagreed with you. But I think people were reacting that someone told Mystic to shut the f up. Not to the disagreeing factor. And spicy did call people names.

      I see what you mean though, I think she was just hurting. Maybe she didn’t know how mean she sounded?

      I like your point that she obviously cares for the underdog. Compassion for the weak is really important, I agree.

      I just wish the psychics I went to back in my lost time had chosen to help me get a grip on reality instead of totally encouraging me to believe in a piece of bullsh*t. Live and learn! I worked it out in the end.

      I hope you will come here again.

  55. Best book I found: When Nietzsche Wept: A Novel of Obsession by Irvin D Yalom whose books are written as teaching novels for his students. Key question…what would you be thinking about if you weren’t thinking about x obsession?

  56. It is not the same, but I get so tired of hearing men whine, “I’ve been hurt in the past, so I can’t. . . (let my heart go there/ make a promise / open up). AS IF HE WAS THE ONLY PERSON ON EARTH WHO HAS NOT BEEN HURT BEFORE.

    1. lol. Yes. I know / am friends with men who are also incapable of getting over the fact that they dated a selfish / psychotic / unbalanced troll. Possibly also a problem because there are children involved and they are now divorced and forking over a lot of cash to someone who does not appear to use it for the kids. but yes. for god’s sake, I DON’T CARE how shit your ex-wife is. or was. or continues to be. Whingeing about exes is a guaranteed way for me to NOT want to get involved.

      1. I’ve found it’s mostly a money issue with men. If they got hard hit in the wallet, they are careful not to get too involved. It is interesting that the women I’ve known who are fearful are fearful not to experience emotional pain again, where the men don’t want financial pain.

      2. piscean, renovation etc

        Yes. Rightfully so, too. It’s a problem for me when a man (or woman, really) can’t separate the finance and the hurt. They say they are over it, etc, but the angst and anger / sadness etc just comes at you in waves. Then the talk about money. Lord get me outta there.

      3. I have to say in my experience it is more likely to be the – yes, finance-obsessed man – who is shit and who balks about meeting his parental responsibilities in any way while his ex-wife takes care of (and meets rental and other “unseen” expenses) for the kids…

  57. Holy crap for an Aries Merc you have the patience of a saint, Mystic.

    I’m sure i was like this once but i would like to blame my crystal addiction at the time if noone minds too much. I’m also sure this describes my boyfriends’ behaviours more than mine. I was too busy smoking drinking talking to all and sundry and climbing out of windows to escape the lovelorn.

    Thank god bath salts wasn’t around at the time. I do have Taurus in 6th.

    1. Aqualeoscorpmn

      I dont mind, i like that u are so candid, and open. Hopefully if anyone catches a comment and needs help. Or sees you in real life being candid about it. You could maybe inspire em enough to fight habit..

      I always listen more to peeps who have gone through what i have, thats what i tell some of my friends that are addicted. Once u get through that you have so much to give by being the example for them that can recover.

      My hats off to you that you did. 🙂

  58. I know I should find this post really funny, but in all serious, it just makes me feel very sad for those women. Yes I’m feeling a tad emo this weekend and perhaps it’s purely my Scorpy perspective… but have a little dignity and self respect ladies PLEASE – I find this cringe-full actually.
    I understand that delusions like these can be quite intoxicating though – almost like a drug addiction, but it only leads you down the path of soul destroying self destruction.
    God, I need to lighten up right?

    1. OH OH.. I’d better clarify, seeing as though some peeps are taking offence…
      I find this kind of behaviour/Love Zombies cringe-full,
      NOT MYSTICS POST – because sure, been there, done that… once…hence the cringe factor!

    2. Not almost like a drug addiction.. It used to BE my addiction. I knew it was, but I couldn’t stop. I had overwhelming highs and lows. I was cringing at myself. I tried to “quit” several times but was only going from one disaster-of-a realtionship to another. Not exactly the same scenarios as MM described, but close.
      Until my saturn return/transit. I am much more present in the reality now, sober literally and figuratively. One of my past ‘poisons’ is chasing after me atm, but no, thanks. I’d rather be alone then so powerless (over myself) and delusional.

    3. Understood…it’s hard to believe that I put myself thru this exact thing and it’s just downright embarassing!

  59. Pisces with Sagg Rising

    I have been guilty of this as well although I do manage to steer clear of the types of examples give by Mystic. I just tend to get a major crush on someone who loses interest in me a couple of years before I lose interest in them. Funnily enough, I have been carrying a torch for someone for way too long and just this last week, I’ve become a bit “meh” about the whole thing. There’s been no final straw or event, it has just dissipated for some reason and I just can’t be bothered. I’m figuring it might have something to do with learnings from the zap zone…

    Regarding this being an exclusively female thing, have you noticed Mystic, any type of email enquiry that is exclusively male?

      1. aww quintile hugs..

        I am sure with the neptunian toro I too was zombie woman… takes two to tango hey x

      2. I wonder if sometimes the zombies had help becoming zombies from the men (are some men Dr. Franken-men? they might help create monsters?…), but then that excuse may wear out at the 3rd or 4th year of zombie-dom when Dr. Franken guy is long gone. Then zombies can evolve and become free fantabulous women.

      3. well…there is such a thing as “co-deluding”. Men express their end differently in most cases. In my terrible scenario the guy really did think that “maybe he could one day” and so I believed him. But that is such crap! There is no “someday”. No, no, no.

      4. That IS crap! Glad you saw it as such. And that’s what I mean about some men (maybe women too) allowing a delusion to fester.

      5. triple hugs to you! sadly, I’m having a zombie relapse tonight – after a day too filled with demanding and worrisome things – ah this too will pass!

      6. I’d love to read about how to get rid of, astrologically speaking of course, “love zombie” males and cyber stalkers.
        Could use some astro Venusian Voodoo advice.

      7. The men usually encourage it in a certain way, in my experience. Give you just enough to keep hoping.

        Davidl is bing too harsh.

      1. because Karma is being re-appropriated for a childish universe approved fate so in order to avoid accountable for your own decisions/look after yourself/live properly/reality.

      2. 12th house virgo

        You know davidl, it took me a long, long time to recognize that what I was doing was “controlling” but the guy – as I see him now – was like the rabbit leading Alice down the hole. The rabbit isn’t really the point of the story, but I do feel kind of bad for the rabbit now. As for karma – I think learning that we aren’t in control of the Universe but are only in control of our actions/choices is everyone’s karma.

    1. fantastic point davidl, but you know sometimes peeps’ complexes date each other before they actually arrive in the room, and manipulation goes under the guise of love games. Unfortunate but true.

    2. It is creepy, agreed. Just won’t g there for anyone. My 20’s are over, there’s zero excuses now for such foolhardiness.

  60. Brilliant, Mystic! I have been a Love Zombie recently, and now this post gives me another excuse to wail about the married guy who went home to his wife, lol. I knew her rising sign so worked out her chart, tortured myself by comparing all their aspects – as if a 20-year marriage and dozens of kids didn’t tell me all I needed to know, lol again.

    Yes our charts were magic together but in the end it’s only about what people choose, and we both made hard choices.

    Of course I know that being a Love Zombie, no matter how pathetic, was easier for me than facing up to the very hard truths about what needed to change in my own life – ie everything.

    I’m onto it now tho, and this post has made me laugh hard at myself, which is no bad thing. 🙂

      1. Absolutely… and being a multi conj Pisces (7th house) w Venus sq Neptune, delusion v potential v reality is always a challenge for me xx

      2. Don’t beat yourself up, I think we’ve all beein somewhere like there, in one form or another. i think it really says a lot about what else is going on in our lives, when we feel driven to find some sort of acknowledgement from these non-relationships. It’s total projection. I learnt a long time ago that if I am slipping into Love Zombie mode, it’s time to actually be alone and assess why I am not loving myself as much as i should. I would recommend Time out – instead, go date yourself, you sexy beast!

      3. You’re so right, Seabird. Thinking about that guy meant I wasn’t paying attention to other stuff that needed attention… namely, me!

  61. Hysterical but really funny, it’s an Obsession when we get to progressed composite charts unless your planning a trip together, when I start doing Sabian symbols for each degree And Tarot all at the same time, I know when I have lost it. I guess it s not over til it’s over, I’m a tripe Taurus so it can take a while to get it , I empathize BUT ladies we all deserve so much better than these toxic/ unsatisfying liaisons, Love yourself more and set the bar a bit higher, love is meant to make you joyful not borderline crazy!! Change your routine to include something you love Zumba, yoga, boxing , writing …. Anything. just stop, it is amazing how you think you can’t and then You just Do it and the obsessive energy drops off. Current astro can only help.


    Once you’ve had a long relationship with a pot-addicted piscean drug dealer with anger management issues and below-average literacy levels, and a neptunian Toro with chronic addictions and gigantic unresolved issues from his past, and other crap that ‘s FAR too tedious to go into (again) here, you .. well, *I* began to realise that maybe just maybe I was making poor man-choices and it was up to me not the universe to stop chasing figments, crackwhores (male) and men who simply weren’t interested in being with me for whatever reason.
    Three no, four books I recommend for sorting one’s shit out are:

    Textbook Romance by Zoe Moffatt (with cute comments added by Hamish Blake, one of my crushes)

    The White Knight Syndrome – forgotten the author but it’s a slim tome… a little pop-psychology but eye-opening if you date losers hoping for the best

    Intimacy and Solitude – Stephanie Dowrick. We all know this book right? For god’s sake read it.

    Women who run with the wolves – Clarissa Pinkola Estes. Again, widely known yeah? Mystic recommended this to me after I had written it off as some piece of fluff for your average repressed housewife; maybe it is, but I got a lot more out of it than I thought I would [NB. am not housewife, not that there’s anything wrong with that]

    1. No, sorry author of Textbook Romance is Zoe FOSTER. I was thinking of a different book (novel, not r’ship guide)!!

      1. ha… I should add it’s not ‘losers’ as such (although that what I was probably doing), but for people who find that they experience patterns in their adult relationships, helping to get to the bottom of that. A must for any serious 4th house transit……

      2. Oh in my case it was deffo losers, lolol – and yes, loads of 4th house lessons, learned now thank fuq! xx

      3. i’m really a slow learner on this front and MM has been very supportive over the years as is my other astrologer. I have a 7th house virgo stellium, pisces moon and rising, and the *tragic* venus conjunct pluto aspect (described as obsessive, over-intense etc). Also brought up in a single parent household with absent, hyper-critical Dad etc – nature or nurture? Does it matter? But it does seem that I have been working saturn transiting my 8th – I am currently free of delusion romantic daydreamings and have stopped cyber stalking my crush and all his female friends on FB, twitter and I have so much empathy for people who are more easily focused on ‘the other’ than themselves, and at the same time I am full of admiration for those centred people for whom this is NOT an issue – thank goodness for all the diversity of human suffering, joy and individual “journeys” : )

      4. Sympathy/ empathy is probably about right. Many of us have walked in their shoes… And still may again.

      5. Oh you just made me look forward to Saturn in Scorp!!! I have a Venus Pluto conjunction in my Scorp 8th house along with Saturn so I’m expecting a bit of an ass-kicking, even after Saturn in Libra where my Sun is.

        I hate how I become when I’m interested in a guy so I’ve become totally nun-like and refuse to entertain even the thought of a relationship anymore. This has been my attitude for some years now and I must say I’m pretty ready to be a normal human actually capable of a relationship now. Bring on the Saturn lessons!

      6. sorry, I must be out of me, I am right now, Ithe comment above was meant to “quintile” on june 24. thankx again quintile for your sweet words.

      7. I’ve got saturn mid-through my 4th house, already past 3 of my natal planets and hanging around my pluto and on my its way to my mercury (and a bunch of asteroids). Yes, it’s a crowded place, my 4th house..
        Anyway, I’ve never made a connection between the 4th house and relationships, maybe only in a way of relationships affecting my ‘core’ self.. Would love to know more.

      8. hi, aironfire… Saturn is still in my 4th house too. I decided to really try to nail it, sort of. Also because I really wanted to understand my natal pluto exact on IC (4th house cusp) better too.

        What motivated me was to work out why, HOW, did I
        (a) end up in and (b) not immediately leave these terrible relationships, with men who were totally unsuited to me? (other than hot sex – well there has to be something going for it lol.) Why did I not gravitate towards more functional men / r’ships? What’s with the crushing shyness around someone who might actually be awesome? What beliefs or fears were/are driving my behaviour around this?? Other people seem to manage romance and relationships quite well, so wtf, Pi? I was aware that I had a strange / unhappy childhood in *some* aspects and I was wondering if this might be relevant. and that’s just me of course – other people have their own paths and stories to investigate.

        anyway, I was googling the hell out of the 4th house to see how I might glean some insight into all of that astro. What I took from it personally was that it’s also the place where we have formative experiences, inherited traits / behaviour / beliefs (possibly), pre-conscious memories or very early memories that kind of fit into the psycho-therapy realm of investigation, you know, it patterns / shapes us for years to come. It was relevant for all of my interactions with people, not just romantic. Also, I wanted to come to terms / understand better my folks, as an adult. I mean it’s a work in progress but I think I have managed to figure out a few key landmarks. the White Knight book was the most informative at least in how / why I stuck with completely utter shite relationships thinking I could ‘help’ ‘save’ or ‘heal’ someone – which is an utter load of crap!!!! if they are happy in their rut, there they will stay and you will wear your fingers to bloody stumps trying to help them see whatever. That’s what paid professionals are for . Anyway, I digress.

        so that’s part of my 4th house ‘study’ in a nutshell. good luck xxx

      9. Thanks, Pi xx Lots of food for thought.. My last “white knight” relationship ended very badly, about as bad as it gets around the time saturn reached my pluto (in the 4th house of course). Now my therapist keeps saying that my panic attacks (triggered by the way the said relationship ended)are likely to be related to an early childhood experience ( that I don’t remember). It’s 4th house wherever I look..

      10. Man, I LOVE these posts, so interesting. I didn’t think too much about the 4th house and relationships till recently… I have an insane fear of men abandoning me or being unavailable…Aqua ruled 4th. Seems my parents, while quirky and superficially interesting were completely aloof emotionally and I’ve chased this exact thing in men for a bit. NO

      11. My 4th house is ruled by libra (hence the loooong saturn transit). I am smacking myself in the head for not seeing the connection between my 4th house and relationships. Its LIBRA!!! Or I should say Libra meets Kataka, add to that an absent father and a controlling, hard-to-please step-father = huge abandonment and self-worth issues.

      12. oh my honeys!!! I am so sorry to hear these histories. Yes, mucho sympathy. Gosh, imagine the role models that the fellas are picking up, in the same home environments?

    2. also, if anyone is still reading these 3 gazillion comments, I think the point about the exes I mentioned is not the specific ‘problems’ that I described (as my own perspective), but what it meant / did for ME personally. Which, if it is any help, was more or less this, [have boiled away the better / more pleasant parts for the bare bones]:

      the Piscean:
      What I wanted or felt was obviously not worth attending to.

      Fear of his foul tempers, and an absence of compassion or sympathy in a way that I could see it. Emotional / verbal abuse – this guy would not stop for breath sometimes. Being argued / shouted at every time we disagreed on things, and his complete refusal to be involved in my life (i.e. friends, nights out, etc) led me to start doubting my own passions and likes to a ridiculous extent. By the time the relationship was a burning wreckage in the jungle, I felt about 10% of who I really was. So squashed out of shape. It was like living two lives – one with my friends, one with him. In SPITE of this, I went to ridiculous lengths to maintain the relationship rather than ‘hurt’ him or just leave the thing for dead and fend for myself. Yet he was incapable of giving me / being what I thought I wanted (things like gentle, curious about life and me, going out to see the world, compassionate, supportive). It was like going scuba diving to look for giraffes. But on I kept! It must be me… I should just try this… if I love him enough / do what makes him happy / stand by then this can work somehow surely…I’ll work outdoors for 8 hours and then catch the 1 hour (standing) bus ride to his place because he really hates it when I cancel plans at the last minute [even tho I am exhausted]…and i don’t want to deal with the consequences over the phone..i’ll just go anyway
      I think that I was reliving somehow my then-fearful and unconfident mother’s relationship with my then-impossibly angry, womanising, father. Both incapable (at the time) of being fully emotionally present as adults and as parents, for their own reasons. I truly feel that I worked through a karmic cycle here.

      The Toro – Abandonment, ‘I was not worth it’. (this isn’t what they said/ told me, it’s the message I took from the failing relationship. regardless of circumstances)

      NO anger: peace. Loving, kind. The fear-quakes that went off inside me whenever I wanted to tell the Toro what I wanted (from him or just something we could do for the day etc), assuming it would end in a tirade of abuse – started to subside. It didn’t have to be awful! And, next-level intimacy. Cue lightened heart. He had emotional issues. Many. A chronic gambler. I could listen, try to help him progress through this! my kindhearted empathy would see us through! (eventually learnt that they were rusted-on and needed some panelbeating that I was incapable of doing) long story short, he started to drift away: he didn’t want my company as much any more: *those* vagrant alcoholic bums … over ME?! ffffffuuuuuuu anyway on it went. The end.
      This was the other side of my dad? I guess?? the kind, loving parent whom I loved / admired (rather than feared and hated) Yet!! NO MATTER WHAT I did, he simply didn’t want to be with me (my parents split up when I was quite young). Cue panic, chasing, emotional scenes, borderline stalking… accepting very sub-par behaviour in lieu of nothing at all…. messy, you get the picture. Eventually figuring out – again, in a whole new way!! – that some people are emotionally disabled. I am not capable of helping them and I MUST learn new ways to be more aware of how I experience and engage with, manage, my own feelings.

      anyway, the end. thanks.

      1. oh.. one more thing. ‘youbetyourwrasse’ mentioned something down there which resonated – when we play out these scripts in our hearts / lives, e.g. parent examples, we are LITTLE KIDS – we are 6 years old and don’t know how to ‘leave’ a ‘relationship’ that wasn’t ours to leave in the first place. e.g. parent-child. We *want* things to be better, to have our mother / father demonstrate their love and care for us, to be around, to not leave. We try to replay, then repair the damage! But we can’t! it’s not ours to repair. We have to learn a new way/s of relating, of having compassion for the child and acknowledging what we never had / didn’t even know what we never had, and having our needs as adults met.

      2. oh thank you Pi….I started reading this thinking I’ll reply and tell her that lol, her drug dealing boyfriend sounded just like one of my lovers….and then once I got here I realised why he couldn’t leave me either – poor little brutalised 6 year old boy looking to me to be the one reliable love he didn’t get as a kid and yet not being able to trust that I would be. And then of course, in the end, I couldn’t be, but it took a finale about as etreme as AironFire’s sounds to indeed make it so.

        I learnt a lot from it all though 🙂

  63. LOL Mystic.. I sometimes think people think of me that way with my posts about my guy! Yes we haven’t seen each other since November but he is NOT a mess. Just hurt and trying figure things out.. mostly work. For me, although he teeters back and forth about what he wants from me, I just feel we are both going through some growing pains about relationships. Maybe a transformation about relationships since we started back in 2009. I am going through it too and I know he is since he was tramatized by his one and only marriage. It scared the shit out of him. I honestly don’t blame him because we have ALL gone through it but most of us have decided we need to move on. He hasn’t as far as I know from today. He is a good guy, deserves to be loved and show his love because he does have it. I hope he can get there because I know he is looking for it!

    All I am saying is that relationships are painful for those transforming that part of their life.

    PS:, the laundry list provided in that email makes me cringe. I hope they are ok. It’s obessive!!!

    1. Just loved this all over again. My favourite,” it doesn’t matter if his Mars is on your moon parked out the back of your house”
      And reminds me of another fave, ” Uranus can rotate around your house if it likes”

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