The Mars-Neptune Manifesto?

“…I have always lived violently, drunk hugely, eaten too much or not at all, slept around the clock or missed two nights of sleeping, worked too hard and too long in glory, or slobbed for a time in utter laziness. I’ve lifted, pulled, chopped, climbed, made love with joy and taken my hangovers as a consequence, not as a punishment….”

John Steinbeck

This would be a great online dating profile lead-in lol. The Pulitzer Prize winning author of The Grapes of Wrath is, of course, a genius and rightly acclaimed. But reading the above quote, I thought ‘aha! This is a man with an interesting Mars!’ And he is. Steinbeck had Mars in Pisces square Pluto + Neptune in Gemini and Uranus in Saggo.

Driven, dissolute and highly original. There can, of course, be awesome manifestations of Mars squares to Outer Planets, by the way. But it’s interesting that you see these sorts of Mars “afflictions” so often in the great tradition of male literary genius pissheads. Women artists with hardcore party-animal-creator aspects would not nearly so far – if anywhere – regardless of talent.

Men also had muses whereas the male muse is a relatively rare species. Dorothy Parker is the only acclaimed and hard-living author who was celebrated in the way that the male writers were and yes, she was born with Mars in Virgo square Pluto + Neptune in Gemini.


60 thoughts on “The Mars-Neptune Manifesto?”

  1. I have Mars in Aries Squared Neptune in Capricorn (0 degree aspecting.) I also have a 12th house Leo Sun and 8th house Pisces Moon, so I’m quite familiar with Neptune’s etheric, ever-shifting seas. I can be the “mega-Zen little snookum,” and have experienced many drug-induced, psychotic breakdowns where I was honestly unable to differentiate reality from illusion. I personally enjoy the vast spectrum of experiences of this aspect. I love being swept away by romantic conquests and am often heartbroken when those I’ve chased are not the gods/goddesses I once saw them as. Excellent post!

  2. Mars in Pisces square Saturn and Uranus (both in Sag). I had / have my wild days / nights… but am a sun Cap and moon / rising libra – so could still maintain being responsible and always wanted to be charming as opposed to making enemies. Part of why working in bars / restaurants for years suited me well.

    To be honest, I stick to a couple tried and true (softer) vices usually make it a marathon, not a sprint. My biggest issue is never wanting the party / night to be over… unless I am the one working it… 😉

    1. But yes, as a woman, I have gotten totally unwarranted backlash from ultra conservative – jealous types! My motto is why let the boys have all the fun?

  3. I have Mars inconjunct Neptune. I am a woman. I find that this aspect plays put for me as a need to write poetry and seduction. I appreciate fantasy and glamour. My energy level does fluctuate. As for alcohol I enjoy drinking but am no where near an alcoholic.

  4. This thread is reminding me of Brett Whitely & his addictions.
    Of all the brill Musicians that have prematurly died here in Oz
    due to speed, booze & smack.
    The Tortured Artist Archetype.
    I’d like to do a month of meditation & fasting in the crystal caves just explored
    & photo-ed in Mexico……for the purity.
    Have you seen the pix? Gi-normeous crystals.
    A radical de-tox is needed but i’m already a ‘skinny bitch’ & lack cullinary
    skills & know when i WAS veggo & dairy free, the amount of time for food prep
    was day-long organisation (before breadmakers).
    Funny story: a housemate hid 20 lsd trips in the frozen peas, which i cooked
    up one night. He came in & freaked when he saw us eating. Sat there awaiting
    the results, but nada, boiling must have negated effects :-).

    When i thought i had an Aqua rising (instead of Cap), it explained why i just
    wanted a superfood liquid drink 3 times a day…space age.
    My soul wants to be a fruitarian with shell fish added ie clams & pippies.

  5. Neptune-Neptune is part of a whole bunch of transits – Jung saw them all as “awakening” – honestly to do this right, i would need to do a consult. As a lot of it depends how you are doing Neptune in your life. Eg; if you’re a major pisshead who “jams” with the band every night but really it’s all about the Blue Devil Hoochie Juice and your sensimellium (sp) flowering heads & you’re deluded re your muso prospects and you’re cheating on the chick who is supporting you then Neptune sq neptune is a very different affair.

  6. I’ve read East of Eden twice – I think it’s the only book I’ve ever read more than once. Both times were many, many years ago but funnily enough just the other day I was thinking about reading it again.

  7. I just read a book called ” A fire in the mind’ about Joseph Campbell – famous for his work on the the archetypal Hero’s Journey and a deep respect for women in mythology. This book details the period when Campbell had an affair with Steinbeck’s wife.

    East of Eden is a pretty amazing read.

  8. Well he apparently needed at least a sober muse – Ha-ha, hope he found one. Wouldn’t have found it in me in my earlier years, raoflmfao. BTW, I did post it later but I couldn’t think of the word for your granddaughter, heat’s addled my brains, but it turned up this morning – bodacious with that hat and lovely face. She’s a cracker, isn’t she?

    1. Well, all my step-grandkids and step-greatgrandkids are in the UK so I’m sort of long-distance advisor, which is quite interesting.

  9. Leo Mars sq Scorpio Neptune here too. I have Pisces Asc and have Neptune sq Aquarius Saturn as well. I enjoy a good wine or vodka once in a while but can only drink moderately or there’s hell to pay and I often get rare or unusual side-effects from meds. I’ve often had the sense that it will be a screw-up by a doctor with meds or anesthesia that does me in at the end.

  10. this infamous crossover pornstar over here in the us has these aspects.
    sasha grey
    mars conjunct neptune in capricorn (had quite the punishing pornshoot schedule)
    venus conjunct jupiter in taurus so definately a being that enjoys the sensuality in passivity (often the sub in her movies)

    i <3 astrology

  11. Mystic, you’re hilarious, don’t be shy, tell us what u see! 😉

    I have a story of a Mars Neptune bestie ten yrs back. He Pisces sq mars, me pisces rising sq venus, cosmic, but boy could this fish drink!!!!! Also uber imaginative and clever which I was addicted to. He wrote a hilarious radioplay about a secret tupperware lady society in the fifties where the women’s husbands banned them from meeting but they snuck out weekly to meet and talk tupperware under the pretense of bible studies and visitting the ill and infirm. Very pisces?

    He swung wildly from cocaine pigsty pizza living and laundering from boss lazy to gungho promotion-getting Mister detox GQ mag style. As a dream team we were so confidently brazen in creativity we often introduced ouselves and carried on under completely madeup identities and supported each other’s act flawlessly, for hours.

    Twas pure magic, dismantled totally by reality when I met someone, and started sobering up in every way, though I never drank to anything near his incapacity. I was actually deeply concerned he would either destroy himself oneday or land in serious deepshit through believing his more maniacal fantasies. He would fire people cos he was having a bad day, maybe a lover jilted him or he didn’t sleep well, and he’d give an employee instant dismissal on a manufactured reason just to discharge his pent up psychic energy…then have a drink.. Then other times he’d let anyone walk allover him like he was dog’s dinner.
    Then his mars neptune came out in hypersensitive defiance that I had started a romantic relationship , he scratched me totally and has refused contact ever since. * blows raspberries* to him.

    Before meeting him I had heard about the edge, after knowing him I’d seen enough.

  12. Equilibrium Girl

    See, as a Cap, this whole “bad with money” thing eludes me. I’d heard something about that before and it didn’t seem right. I tend not to give a crap about getting out there and earning big bucks – boring – but I do save save save and am terribly frugal (more out of necessity as I’m not going out there earning the big bucks!)

    Boys. Hmmmm… I tend to go for the bold, self-confident, smart, experienced types who are ever-ready to stand up against all the wrongs of the world… who look good in a suit…

    I tend to fantasize a lot – as in, I get lost in fantasies of future times and successes. Delusions of grandeur? Could that be this aspect talking?

    1. Actually, I think that is what you are meant to do w/ N Node present. My guess is : meant to take action re high ideals/ mysticism or ‘what you value’
      in order to earn a living or perhaps to use the forementioned to find peace of mind through learning more about what you love. Delusions of grandeur could also be called ‘brainstorming’ in my opinion ! 😉

    2. Discard if not useful: I read something about using your God given talents as destiny with 2nd house NN. I guess Neptune would give dreaminess and negatively illusion, while mars would give energy but negatively aggression. So my guess would be that you are the bold, smart, talented person who can cut glass with those Cappy cheekbones and looks fab in a suit that you desire in your life!! Energy for dreaming and fantasy about success for sure too. And why not? Visualisation is everything. 😉

      1. Equilibrium Girl

        Oooh, “visualisation” not “delusion.” Another brilliant word that I shall henceforth adopt, lovely Andromeda.

        I love this blog!!!!!

        Mystic, you need to get your techno guru to install a “like” button so we can “like” all these wonderful comments 🙂

  13. Equilibrium Girl

    This is one aspect of my chart I don’t get. Appreciate any insights:
    Mars /Neptune / True Node conjunct in Saggo, 2nd house.

    1. Loose with money?? Slips thru fingers easy. Careful with men who have a guru complex?? What type of men do you like Equi Girl?

  14. Actually, to be very honest, I just feel he lived who he was and good luck to him. I wonder where, astrologically speaking, the healthy focus came from? I’m just curious because in my younger days (ahem!) there was a lot of rockin’ and rollin’ (not just by me but many others) and excess,and all of a sudden we’ve ended up with a Western society obsessed with being healthy and slim. If, for example, you looked at one of the African women bands who came over to Oz a while back, they were big women but super-healthy and super-energetic. But not thin or looking healthy by Western standards. I wonder when the change happened. Did Virgo turn up somewhere? It’s probably politically incorrect but being raucous and kicking up your heels seems a great thing to do for me. But then I’ve had alcohol problems in the past, inherited from my father and his father. I still feel we’re in a really prissy society at present, which sort of breaks out as binge drinking or something. Okay, I’m meandering, but any thoughts on the health kick would be appreciated and satisfy my curiosity!

    1. Maybe it’s important to divide ‘kicking up your heels’ from severe long term illness. Happy, healthy people can kick up their heels, but alcoholics are just trying to be normal by drinking. Eating for fun and eating to fill a whole are different too.
      Society isn’t living a healthy existence in general, gorging on oil and spewing out crap in several directions while destroying the environment.

      People might be feeling more stressed, less valued and more aware of their impact on the earth. All this astrological action by Uranus, Neptune etc. is surely part of the impact this has on the collective unconscious, I would like to understand it better too.

      1. Well, I do have to say that my father wallowed in grog and I never, ever got that bad, thank god. But isn’t it interesting how it takes off in other directions like impact on earth, it’s a bit like a kaleidoscope with all sorts of bits fitting then moving around. That’s the great thing about MM’s site – you get bits and pieces flying off into the great unknown.

        1. Astrowise maybe check out whenever rome fell astrologically LibraAqua – or the revolutions in France or Russia, or even sodom and gomorrah (sorry to any christians ) don’t know how to spell the bible words).

          Tide in, Tide out – none of this is new.

          1. I’m just re-reading Liz Green’s book on the effects of the outer planets on societies, just been re-issued, fascinating reading.

  15. Steinbeck is a heavy hitter artistically, I really respect him. I have Mars square Neptune, Venus quincunx Neptune.

    I am not an addictive personality per se, but I know my way around Neptune’s pharmaceuticals cabinet. Alternate universe to my current life.

    Dionysius is in my 3rd house conjunct the IC & Pluto. Sounds like I should start drinking while writing for success?!

  16. I’ve got Mars at 41 deg Taurus, conjunct moon and mercury, squaring Pallas in Scorpio. Also Jupiter at 25 deg Taurus squaring Neptune in Scorp.

    Anyhoo, I kind of relate to the above quote. I love alcohol and dionyssian adventure. But I also have a very practical, organised, sensible, healthy side. So I can have bouts of dissipation, then bouts of ultra-heathy yogi.

    What can I say, I’m a Gem?

  17. Mars square Neptune AND Jupiter. Moderation is not something I’ve ever understood. I mean, if you’re going to be alive and here, why be anything other than totally, totally here? *dives back into her jar of Nutella*

  18. Venus conj Jupiter (Jupiter on alcoholic degree) square Neptune (which is opp Moon.) Classic lush aspects. Was called a ‘buttery’ drunk: lovey-dovey giddy fool, etc… Used it to numb pain/ liquid courage depending on day.

    At one time was working 7/7 for around 3 years. Paid my 2 week tab at workplace when check came…added up $$ spent on stout beer and cigs, realized I could cut back to 6/6 if I quit. That was a no-brainer.

    Suffering does not cause or enhance genius, genius just is. I finally got that one after ?! years. Super drunk isn’t pretty on anyone, really.
    In my case, it was a relief to dampen the high-strung Sun/Uranus/Pluto conj energy ~ shut off the inner Virgo critic and cast my usually shy Neptune/Saturn inhibitions to the winds so big Leo could come pouncing out. As I have grown older and more comfortable with myself, I can do this naturally.

  19. I have mars square neptune so…jumping in here.

    lots of “experimentation”, no guilt complex, physical (even orgasmic) spiritual experiences, deep dark dreams. This aspect means moxie, especially with 8th/4th house placements. I read people well before I even know what it is that I know.

    On the alternate side of that coin, though, serious periods of unexplained foul, violent depression, smirking spiritual pillaging, and drowning in addictions (real or imaginary). There are definite consequences to even the lightest of endeavors, and there is no such thing as a free ride / superficial affair. All or nothing.


    1. The Dark Night of the Soul comes to mind.
      Neptune can play cruel jokes on me. Neptune in my 1st House (Delusions of Self and Disappointment). Used to drown not in alcohol but in negative self loathing and hate in a downward spiral.
      Didn’t need drugs to achieve it my mind tormented me enough.

  20. The Leo Socialite

    I would date him with this description and a hotter pic! Got made to read grapes of Wrath at school and got crush on him from pic on book jacket

  21. The Leo Socialite

    What worries me is that if this WERE an online dating ad – with a better picture – i would answer it for sure.

  22. I dunno – the only people who really seem to buy into the glamourisation of an alcoholic lifestyle are alcoholics – and Steinbeck is definitely one! Alcoholism definitely hits women harder than men. Our culture (actually most cultures) give men far too many free passes for shit behaviour, whereas women cop the brunt of judgement due to sex-based double standards.

    I recently watched a documentary that discussed the latest scientific research into alcoholism and it was quite compelling. Basically it’s been proved that alcoholism is a disease, quite separate to addiction to alcohol or alcohol abuse. There is a genetic variant in the DNA of alcoholics, not present in non-alcoholics, which in practical terms leads the brain of an alcoholic to respond to alcohol in a completely different way – somewhat like “heroin on a heroin addict” was the turn of phrase used by the presenter. They showed MRI scans taken during controlled experiments that showed the pleasure centres of the brain lit up like a pinball machine in the alcoholic patient, whereas non-alcoholics had about a 5th of the response.

    When the presenter asked what the implications of these research findings were, the scientist said “basically alcoholism is a genetically inherited brain disorder”.


    Certainly puts a lifetimes worth of heavy drinking into perspective doesn’t it? Regardless of whether the sufferer managed to have moments of genius or just sat around getting shitfaced all day.

    There’s certainly a long history of creative talent amongst alcoholics and addicts – I mean what substance abuse basically does is alter the chemical workings of the mind artifically. But in my opinion it’s a pretty dark and depressing way to live for such lightweight rewards. I’ve recently cut alcohol out completely myself. I went off it for two years during Saturn in Virgo then had a year back on, but finally came to the conclusion that I really don’t enjoy the stuff at all.

    Funnily enough (going back to the doco I mentioned earlier), the presenter said towards the end of the show that if alcohol were to be discovered today it would be banned or on the controlled substances list.

    1. Great info crab, thanks for sharing. 😉 I’ve lost pretty much my entire family to Alcoholism and Drug addiction. Terrible disease.

    2. The Leo Socialite

      Thank you for this so what is the difference between alcohol abuse and alcoholism. I am doing Feb Fast for a month and am perfectly happy to do without alcohol for four weeks but every – say – fourth time i drink wine, i really could drink the town dry…but i know people who never go a day without it and think that they could not. They say the only cure for a hangover is to drink again….

    3. Thanks prowlin’ great info. Working the job I mention below, I saw how much $$ was spent on booze, cigs, lotto by my customers. Like looking in a mirror. Money pissed away or up in smoke. Just didn’t have the extra cash and made the choice.

    4. He says it isn’t much to do with genetics, he talks about brain development from birth. Our brains develop outside the womb like most animals inside the womb as we are slow developers… Recipe for trouble in some environments.

    5. “basically alcoholism is a genetically inherited brain disorder” I totally believe this. I just count my blessings that it did not touch me. But I shake my head in disbelief at the terrible havoc I it has wrecked on some in my family. Once I told my alcoholic sibling that if I was told I could never have a drink again I wouldn’t care less. They answered me so sadly in a small voice“ Oh I just WISH that I could be like that”. Broke my heart.

      “if alcohol were to be discovered today it would be banned or on the controlled substances list.” It amazes me that alcohol is so freely available when many of the side effects it brings are so devastating. (Mars/Neptune conjunction speaking here…)

    6. good post, I agree. Romanticizing drinking and smoking is mostly a fictional fantasy.
      The reality pales in comparison.
      I admire those that are creative w/o being a crazy drunk.
      I think what others may see and envy is the freedom to be an artist unapologetically.

      I have Mars Square Neptune and can get drink very easily and end up dancing on tabletops. But, I have to be careful with all drugs including prescription and otc.
      It effects me and the effect is intense.
      My best ideas come to me when sober.

    7. Prowlncrab- That’s very interesting! I would love to see this study. Do you know the name of it or where I can find it? btw- sober 28 years, ven/mar conjunct and both square neptune. Recovering from every addiction known to woman! I love life big and I’ve suffered big too. Maybe that explains it. As well as the brain condition that goes with my natal chart!

  23. I’ve got Moon-Mars-Neptune conjunct in Sag and in the 9th house, ultra fantasist and stupidly impulsive. Certainly not a mega-Zen little snookums that’s for sure and have the tendency to be a slave the more Dionysian pleasures in life when I let myself go. Dionysius in Libra (of course, everything in bloody Libra) conjunct Venus, ha that makes sense.

    Steinbeck had his in Cancer!

  24. I’ve got Neptune square Mars AND Venus (Mars/Venus conjunction) and I’m the most boring person I know. Just reading that quote made me tired. I could probably do with a little more psycho battiness, really.

    1. Interesting–thinking about this made me remember the one and only time drinking too much (I almost never drink, but when I do, it definitely has a strong and immediate effect on me) got me into real trouble, so I checked my chart and transits for that day, and:

      Retrograde Pluto was conjunct my natal Neptune
      Mercury, Venus and Mars were square my natal Neptune
      The Sun, the Moon, and Saturn were opposite my natal Moon and Ascendant, which are in Pisces (Neptune ruled).

      …Yikes. I never should have left the house.

  25. Is a “conjoining” considered a harsh aspect? Depending on the planet involoved? So if my Mars and Neptune are conjoined in the 12th that could explain all that Blue Devil Hootchie Table Dancing I’ve done over the years? (there’s something mysteriously sexy about this guy)

    see what I mean? Nothing but trouble. 😉

    1. Can go either way i think scorp? Depends on how you channel the mars-neptune energy. Idealistic, high drunk, fighter for underdog.?? spooky, surreal, psychic dreams??

    2. The sexy vibe emanates from those that are creative, intelligent and contemplative don’t you think? What’s mysterious about a superficial metrosexual?

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