A Homage to Mars In ‘Detriment’

The real meaning of Mars in so-called detriment is that it’s not actually a thing. The same goes for Mars in ‘fall.’ How many of you have, as avid potential astro-fiends or seekers of self-mastery, felt dejected upon finding out your Mars was apparently defective?

The concept comes from an ancient system known as planetary exaltation. Namely, that the Sun, Moon, and planets each had a sign of the Zodiac that they were exalted in. The opposite sign to that was the apparent ‘fall’ and if a planet was in the sign opposite that which it ruled, it was in detriment.

So, for example, Venus is supposedly exalted in Pisces and in its fall in Virgo. In the case of Mars, it’s exalted in Capricorn, in fall in Cancer. And, in Libra, it’s technically in detriment as Libra is across the galaxy from Aries, A.K.A. Mars Central. Some throw Mars in Taurus as well, it’s a Venusian sign and opposite Scorpio, the sign co-ruled by Mars.

Mars In Detriment? – No Way

By this logic, the people thus afflicted would be lazy, cowardly or malign. A super archaic way of talking about it was in terms of “thrones” and “prisons.”

But I don’t buy any of it. The origins of this system are dubious and besides, ‘ancient’ does not necessarily mean amazing and worthy of our adherence.

As Mars is such an oomphed up, immediate-results, what-the-fuq-just-happened (?) Yang vibe, it is always the most obvious when ‘bad.’ Medieval Mars descriptions read like a rap sheet: sedition, plunder, piracy, quarreling at pubs, stealing your neighbors’ oxen because you gambled yours away, blasphemy…Or, if you’re the slacker sort of bad-Mars character, you fall asleep under hay wagons and shun church.

Now, the exaltation system was bought to us by the same people who bought us “could cause homosexuality” as an example of a shitty astro-transit and declared the magical 12th house a lunatic asylum. It’s the language of Madonna versus Whore, ‘out of wedlock’, Fallen Angels, and exile for anyone outside of an incredibly narrow norm.

Medieval Mars Descriptions Read Like A Rap Sheet

Their version of a malfunctioning Mars was that a man could be ‘effeminate’ or a woman might seek to ‘wear the pants.’ Not wanting to fuq off to yet another Crusade would presumably also count as a dodgy Mars.

Mars is our assertive instincts, the aspect of the psyche that comes into play when trouble comes. It’s your fear-conquering arena strut. It’s also, of course, violent and turbulent when ill-expressed.

But the way you channel your Mars vibe is your choice; every Mars placement has strengths and weaknesses. It has nothing to do with exaltation or detriment. It’s irrational and it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

Here are some people who have/had Mars in Cancer. You may not admire all of them but they’re certainly not lacking motivation: Noam Chomsky, Patsy Kline, James Hunt, William Wallace (the Scottish independence fighter, memorably portrayed by Mel Gibson in Braveheart), Benazir Bhutto, Hope Solo, Odette Churchill, Al Capone, Malcolm X.

And, team Mars in Libra: Nelson Mandela, Margaret Thatcher, Genghis Kahn, Arianna Huffington, Abraham Lincoln, Frank Ocean,  Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Jeffree Star, Colin Kaepernick, Malala Yousafzai, Gore Vidal, Julia Gillard, Winston Churchill, George Orwell, Sigmund Freud, Eminem, Kobe Bryant, Danica Patrick, Louis Armstrong.

It’s really just old-style sexism – that Mars in the Moon and Venus-ruled signs is mysteriously compromised.


Image: Thierry Mugler

131 thoughts on “A Homage to Mars In ‘Detriment’”

  1. Tbh this article is an answer to leads to so many other questions (much like history): what about moons in their detriments for women considering the moon is always associated with femmes?

  2. Mystic, I am so glad I got my Astral DNA and Year Head readings done. Next, 6th house is Taurus and Venus is in my 10th house. I am still trying to make sense of it.

  3. I should probably ask this on a tarot forum (sorry and yes i have googled) but can anyone tell me if the Hierophant can sometimes mean simply doing things by the book? And that’s for the best? He’s come up 3-4 times for me now in a “Me” or a guidance placement and I can’t work out if I’m being told off for being inflexible (struggling to see that, I feel like the blade of grass here) or if it’s support for taking the official, proper, standard road for this particular issue, which is a matter of the heart. Pi x

    1. Pi-sie i agree with the Centaur, especially for YOU. Don’t give your power away! ‘Bowing to authorities, organised religion or cultural law. Custom and tradition can control an individual’s life energy’ as the hierophant is the law giver or internalised judge or parent and the prevailing cultural majority’.ie The Torah, the Bible, the Koran.
      This is from Mother Peace tarot. Cards are round not square as square too definitive and round can have degrees not just upright or reversed.
      Goes on to say ‘the hierophant represses others although the root of the word means ‘bringer of light to sacred things’.
      In a reading means you are dealing with conventional morality and patriarchal law in some way.
      Sooo rereading what you wrote you have sussed it out already.
      Clever Pi, see you KNOW. xx

    2. Wish Upon a Star

      Pi you are getting good advice from two online sages here. Blessed Centaurus and Pegasus.

      Maybe the Heirophanti is giving you support for simply following your 💓.heart.

  4. Older astro dissed all the signs ruled by trans-Saturn planets- Scorp, Aqua, Pisces and warned of perversions, untoward ambition, delusions, drugs….ugh!

  5. Ok so talking about fall and detriment but a while ago I had a pretty dull Vedic reading but possibly I wasn’t prepared for the analysis. I thought my sun Jupiter in the 5th cancer would be joyous and bright and wonderful and instead he said that throughout my life I would be shamed. Yup shamed. The collective will shun you and you will be a shameful woman. Pretty much walked away thinking pah. Stuff that. But, but some maybe six or seven years later I was listening to another chap talking about Vedic and Jupiter and he pinned my configuration down and explained and instantly I got it. Yup I’m shameful. Truly deeply shameful. And I understand why. I am very individual and can only speak from a personal perspective and now being over 50 I have the courage to act out my authentic voice. I have spoken out about not all women liking motherhood and have left my career of 31 years because I could not live with the lie I was being asked to live out. I do not belong in the collective and to that tribe I become very difficult to contain and a threat. I can easily up tip their apple carts. So suddenly shame has taken on a deeper richer meaning for me. Shame means being authentic, being non apologetic, being me fully and never bowing to anyone who would suggest I am anything other than. Gods am I going to be a belligerent old bugger when I am 80 !

    1. Wish Upon a Star

      Goddess I hope so!

      It’s just the Madonna/whore theory playing out among the mediocre. Hey you scare me sometimes and sometimes I think you are autistic But your emotional understanding suggrsts no.

      But I adore your audacity. Goddesses are very bold in their sexuality. Your essence is very pure. .

      Shine on you crazy Diamind !

      1. You are not the first to say scared but it’s mostly men who tell me I scare them to death. Hahaha. No not autistic in the slightest but just really profoundly honest and real. Everyone who really gets to know me knows I’m the biggest softest thing out there. But don’t tell everyone. They have to find it out for themselves.

    2. And again it all comes down to perception. It never fails and still manages to surprise me personally even though I know this.

      Shame as a feeling/sensation to point you to truth but also acknowledge the challenges and conflict you may experience when you walk that path. That’s a powerful way to spin that feeling.

      It’s useful intel and you’re using it as intended imo.

      1. Yup perception. Initially I dropped it because I couldn’t get the grip on it. I didn’t let it worry me but I didn’t or couldn’t see it. Now I see it and now I understand it’s meaning. And yes I do get that feeling and for a networker it’s tough but I suppose it’s morphed into a fearlessness. Who ever thinks we stop growing is not looking in right places.

        1. Networking is such a skill and well… it’s not mine and never has been. For a Saggo Sun you’d think I’d have some natural enthusiasm for these things but I really don’t. One of my good friends is also Saggo and she is just a natural at it. I also know some very skilled Scorpio networkers. I think Leo’s can be quite good at it also.

          Absolutely we don’t stop growing. Maybe even when we think we’re not or we feel like we’re on a plateau we still are but in more subtle ways.

    3. Emg, your observation of your man’s Mars in Pisces aggression being distasteful got me on a truly personal experience of understanding. So deep and concurrent, i could not reply to it. But it helps so much. I do not want to be eternally belligerent and repetitively stuck in patterns that i invited but are not my own. I see some differences and also some small similarities that are just too small

      1. There is some deep stuff being illuminated here then. I know you will integrate it and I wish you increased understanding and more compassion for yourself, if that is what is required.

    4. And in a completely relatable but also curious kind of reflection how does anyone who doesn’t relate to the so called ‘collective’ (whatever that actually is and dismissing prescribed norms) integrate and commune? Honest question from someone who gets what you’re saying but also thinks the path out of this is not in an ‘opposed to or against’ but ‘with’ stance? Sure, I can most definitely rock a boat, rattle a cage or shake an apple cart and maybe even take some joy in the process but I don’t do it often anymore and I have concluded that it rarely works effectively anyway so conserve my energy for other things. I also don’t put this kind of thing in the shame box though it does still wields a power of sorts that isn’t always positive.

      What are your thoughts on integrating difference rather than an X versus X sitch?

      If anyone engages in ‘this way’ or ‘that way’, right or wrong, power over et al then are they any different to the energy they are trying to suppress or quell? Just so’s I’m clear I am philosophically speaking not combatively challenging.

      1. If I understand you correctly, we all have to live in the collective because it brings us societal norms and principals which as civilised beings we try to adhere to. But some of us are designed to be very much in that camp. They like to belong, to have a tribe a religion a glue that binds a group and they would flounder without. Then there are those who can swing a bit more to being an individual and who can survive without religion or prescription broadly speaking then there are those who are the lone wolves. They don’t much like being prescribed to and told how or who or why to behave and cannot follow the tribe or pack or herd. So for them it’s more like Wish just posted, fuq the collective. You Still have to live in it unless they take that yacht and sail away alone and survive alone and shun society and it’s blessings but also it’s cage, you can only walk your path. Are you someone who needs the glue, someone who can manage being a free thinker and toeing a certain line or one who eventually kicks the traces and walks away?

        1. And I’d suggest don’t dilute the you just to fit in. Then we simply have one shade of grey. We really need authentic voice now more than ever. Just beware that your voice may be utterly opposed to another’s. and that is ok but in society then we end up with compromise before we have the argument and things shift. That shift is not usually comfortable either but we evolve our society and move on.

        2. Yes, that’s essentially what I meant and I’d say I sit in the second camp pretty comfortably and probably prefer it overall though less rebellious than I perhaps once was.

          I guess the other thing that strikes me as having relevance when I think about this stuff is that even the individual who goes off grid or stands to the side of conventional norms as a couple of examples needs the collective to have that position otherwise that position just wouldn’t exist. How could it? We project our views, values and beliefs on the world so we need the collective to project out toward which then reflects back to us where we stand (want to stand, become aware we no longer want to stand) in the collective mix.

          And I also reflect a bit on the idea of free thinking. If it’s born from rebellion, dislike, contrariness, loosing faith etc then I imagine these themes need to be reconciled before the notion of free can really exist otherwise we might be calling it that but it might not be truly that. That could be as much of a soul journey as it could be just limitations of mortality and evolution. I don’t think I can answer my own questions there… and there ya go, that’s how my mind often works…


          1. When you grow up feeling and being raised in a fairly elite margin of society, but have been consistently viewed and treated as Other and Not Really Belonging, though you and your history have been part of the forge of that, then you realise it can only be in the difficult to come by personals that any of us can actually challenge the cage and know where our freedoms are. Then we relate. Not you and me, just my personal rug weave. I really appreciated your amazing honesty of self and reaction when we met.

            1. The outlier or outlander. As an archetype I wonder what Astro signature would be fairly consistent .. if it were that simple for all the myriad of combinations. Your theme sounds like it sits on the 4/10 axis perhaps.

              Yes, that’s it really isn’t it – the ‘cage’ itself is an interesting concept that I’d likely thrash about were I not so zapped from intensive reading/note taking.

              ((Mille)) – and absolutely same to you! xx

      2. Let’s put it thus way, your ‘with’ non-tribe people can mean a lot more to creating a sense of bel9nging and wholeness than you give credence. The space and understanding you make is real, and you can always go for more, if that is what you want xxx

  6. Charlie chaplin

    It is what it is I have Uranus in Taurus conjunct my mars in Taurus 2nd house and I have it sextile Jupiter in cancer 5th so that helps and square Neptune so that also helps aha anyway point being I could beat the shit out of any of the mars signs as a mars in Taurus with benefic aspects I honestly am just to fast

    1. Too fast and not really very self reflective. Benefic aspects give no native quarter to contemplate your own schizz and its effects. You will need multiple events and chapters to even get the pattern of what that might mean. Good luck, Toro. Beware the red flags! They are yours.

    1. Is a plug in ladies and still available on the Astro.com site. Maybe there have been upgrades on MM that require a reset – apols if stating the obvs x

      1. Thought it maybe on the Moon Cal, alas no but can be worked out from that info.
        About to buy a new macbook.There is a problem buying from O/S (a bit cheaper) due to shipping transport delays. New 2020 models are in short supply, of course because of new to some working-teaching- from- home gig. Bad time to negotiate and can’t use ‘discount for cash’ line either.
        Will buy locally as if any problems only a short trip to seller whereas from Hong Kong….bit far to drive, and thereby pay more.
        Even though my current one is working it’s S L O W as it’s memory is full. Know how that feels…hahaha, so tend to give up halfway through searching info or FB communications. Want faster than quick or my ADD kicks in. Waiting for loading is so 90’s.
        Money has an emotional current i think and want unemotional Mercury on side for my large exciting purchase.

        1. One day I might go with the Mac. Having grown up with and used PC professionally for so long I’m perhaps just in a groove of comfortability but I do like them. May Mercury speed you an amazing new communication device!

          Money definitely has an emotional current. You can try going with the emotion but flip it to something more desirable if it’s not an emotion to your liking. The only caveat there that I’ve encountered in life is that the one you want to dispose of will ask to be felt first. The risk of banishing it to the dark recesses may result in it appearing for something completely unrelated 😉

          Full memory – well maybe that’s just a sign that you really can’t be bothered with some of that. I loose interest in lots of online stuff particularly if I have to start wading through bunches of stuff I am not remotely keen on even skimming past.

          Waiting for loading IS so 90’s lol – and in a bit of a spin on that … wasn’t that the last time anyone saw it (loading) in their holiday pay hahaha. Oh wait, no that was a pay rise that wasn’t just CPI based. My bad 😉

          1. That reply is so wisdom based. Resonates of course about not being bothered to wait – it’s not that important in the first place..
            It’s documents music and photos mostly in memory. The creativity of apple products are appealing and excellent support system.
            Instinct tells me to wait a few weeks until the buying spree of laptops levels out.
            I remember the excitement of my first PC, macbook in 2003/4 and going into Mystic’s website and seeing a blog one could reply to posts.. Everyone was ‘blogging’ but this site was so educational, so much to learn and us Saggos love the esoteric, metaphysical subjects, and here was the High Priestess at our fingertips 🙂

  7. Mars in Libra has always bugged me. Not being the assertive type & with my sun in the 12th house, I hang in the background and observe. This fresh take on Mars, with references to aspirational people, has actioned an ‘a-ha’ moment. I’ve always used my quiet, wait until the right time to strike, nature. By watching and waiting (like a fox in hiding) I see when the other people have exhausted themselves and then I gently suggest, or take action.

    thanks mystic x

    1. You know thinking your mars or Venus is crappy and berating yourself for not having this or that attribute is so counter productive. Your mars was being used your way and that simply means you have mars skills others don’t and when we realise we were doing us right all along what a relief ! It’s about how we feel comfortable expressing our whole personality. I’m glad you’ve seen your mars in a new light. There is no right or wrong way to do or be anything.

  8. Years ago I had a chart reading by a respectable astrologer in my country. I was deemed as lazy, not amount to anything, due to my Mars in Pisces in the 5th house placement. I totally believed her. Thank you Mystic for this.

    1. That is so incorrect! My partner has Mars in Pisces and he is known by all for being very hardworking and diligent. His stellium in Gemini is in the 5th House all square his Mars, so his Mars is highly activated. He is always building something, practicing guitar, cooking and used to do loads of martial arts, he is industrious in his creative hobbies too. Definitely not a pushover but finds aggression distasteful. I would imagine you would be fabulously creative with this placement!

      1. SPHINX, IT WAS YOU! Credit where it’s due. I cannot explain well but there is a lot of wisdom swirling in currents from three of you on this site who share an astro signature. I can be a very confused/synthesising receiver of these wisdoms. And funny, it’s come back wise in response anyway 🤣

    2. It’s how you take lazy, it could mean a thousand things. Granted not a brilliant reading as there was no nuance given or exploration unless you heard that word and froze in the headlights. If you froze in the headlights did lazy resonate ? If it did then it’s a doorway open to explore your take on the meaning of lazy, not amounting to much and all else you heard. Thankfully now if I hear a word that hits me I take the time to explore why. I’d read that mars differently. Maybe your action will take along while to find as you explore deeply your joy and creativity before it’s brought out. ? You may have to experience deeply before you make your moves.

    3. “Lazy” is a hateful word , it leaves the person with absolutely nowhere to go and is so utterly closed and unfair. It says more about the narrow view and prejudices of the person doing the name calling.
      Long story short I am defending you. Mars fish in the 5th seems dreamy , like a songwriter or Numero Uno fan club person, someone who fights to defend love and fun or parties their way into creativity

      1. I can’t think any word is hateful. That is limiting our language and our appreciation of it. Where’s the nuance. If you want to be contained by a word so be it. But I’d always ask that if you are stung by anything that you explore it and why it made you feel that way. As discussed below the lazy folk with this configuration turned out to be brilliance just in waiting. We all need to do a bit more waiting ready to grasp the really important things to us. I embrace my lazy and my other half has taken it to another level. He has a professorship in lazy. He is bone idle when ever he needs to be but my gods when that man is charged with a knowing something is right for him, you have to stand back to witness the gods in action. Then he goes back to being perfectly lazy. How about perfectly lazy as a new term for mars fish in the 5th?

      2. Lazy ain’t a hateful word to me. I’m a Toro riser and I love me a bit of lazy veg-out time. I don’t see that as a negative. I’m powered up and active when I need to be but if I don’t need to be I am not and I call that relaxation. I don’t know why folk need to keep perpetually busy and/or achieving to feel valid or like life means anything… but I accept that there are people that measure success and who they are as such.

        In Astro speak – Lazy = trine = focus and conscious intent to move out of something that can typically come quite easily and therefore generally you don’t/won’t put any/extra effort into because you know you can if you want to but right now you don’t really feel like it, plenty of time to get to it…

        1. That is hilarious. His chart is one big grand trine. In earth. Nothing else. Just a grand trine. I mean come on. Lucky fortunate swine! Me, it’s a mess of squares, granted with a water grand trine but more squares than your average chess board. Constant drive constant pressure. And they say opposites attract!

          1. Yes I have that kind of thing but the Asc is one of the points. Still it fits my thing but I also have a T-square as well.

            Have a look at the houses… well you probably already have. I can’t get my head around how that would feel to have no square action. Interesting!

            Squares can feel relentless eh.

            Two grand trines working in tandem and you throwing in some square action just to keep it real 🙂

            1. Well, i like to see my laziness as the Saturn in Taurus 6th shrinking back the energies to the essentials 😁

              1. Hahahaha… I read your comment and just did a word association which totally cold shouldered Saturn and only saw Taurus and thought ah, yes.. couch time!

        2. Wondering if lazy could mean unobservant?
          Like the person doesn’t see that they need to take their own cups to the kitchen from the lounge instead of going to kitchen empty handed?

          1. Or unfocused. You start something then lose focus and don’t get back to it. Maybe it wasn’t your true focus, true intention, anyway. It’s ok to experiment.

    4. I feel the need to defend your Mars in Pisces in the 5th. It’s the Mars of poets, songwriters, creators, lovers. Paul Weller springs to mind.

    5. I thought i would ad a list of “lazy, amount to nothing”, Mars in Pisces people:

      Simone de Beauvoir, Michelangelo, Gertrude Stein, Hermann Hesse, Elizabeth Taylor, Justin Trudeau, Tina Turner, Che Guevara, Vincent van Gogh, Martina Navratilova, David Beckham, Tom Hanks, Miles Davis, and my favourite laziest, good-fer-nuthin untalented poet, singer, songwriter, Nobel laureate, Bob Dylan.

        1. yeah, but i just realised not necessarily in the 5th H. Mars is opposite my Mercury ATM & i jumped the gun before checking all requirements.
          Still, i don’t understand how Mars/Pisces in the 5th H would be deemed lazy, seeing it’s in the Leo domain…Fire?

      1. Martina, Miles and Michelangelo! Wow! Can’t call that horror Che lazy I guess, can never unsee that photo of him murdering teen girls, ugh. Bob is a great poet. Mars in Pisces is an interesting expression of energy, embodying the dreams and fantasies of the collective. Ideology and ideals into practice..

        1. Funny, looking at that list i can see how Mars aggro came out in other ways in those history-mark-makers. It is still an energy regardless of its motivation, and it still gets channelled. I would never have, and still don’t feel i have a ‘good mars’. Mystic is the first to show me the surprise, and it’s the first time i learned to look back and appreciate what it did, look around and beyond my frustration with what i haven’t done and notice what i am doing. Lazy Piscean? So i was always told. But i am the Mistress of My Energy, and all the things i did when i wasn’t doing what i was told definitely form the core of me today.

  9. Thank you Mystic, for yet another, and not just any other, liberating out-frame, de-frame and re-frame of that pathetic outdated astro-language.
    Your blog on mars retro just fizzled out my residual tendrils of reactivity to that old shiz.
    The sheer quality of your written consciousness is reverberating in my awe-inspired gratitude sphere.

    1. Yeah, I reckon Saggo with Mars in Libra.
      I can’t imagine a better placement for Mars, frankly.
      OK, so maybe Genkhis was swinging more towards the Aries side of the Libra-Aries axis, and some would argue Thatcher was too – and interestingly they both had their Mars Libra being squared by Pluto in Cancer, perhaps making them a tad megalomaniacal – but on the whole that list is full of pretty awesome people working for the fairer social good.

  10. I’ve got mars in cancer. And although it is classed as not being the best placement I consider it’s just like any other aspect. I’ve got a shed load of squares too but this is my lot as such. I think I’ve just used my mars in a different fashion from the stated norm value. Who cares who said what and when. It’s me that lives it out the best way I can and I don’t know any other way to live it out. So I’ll not get flustered by any of this.

  11. I disagree with the statement about the planets in “fall” coming from dubious origins – it comes from Vedic, sidereal astrology which does deserve its place in anyone’s astrological studies. To me it has as much importance as squares or challenging aspects. If you work it, it works.

    I do agree it’s not the end of the world. Mars in Libra in the 8th house and I’m pretty sure I won’t have the same death as JFK. My Venus in Virgo in the 7th is teaching me to stop being a masochist.

    1. But that’s it, they got it from the Babylonians and nobody can trace the actual original source of it. It’s one of those things which have always been taken as given. It can be relevant in horary and if you were choosing a date for something like surgery, you’d go for the best classical expression of Mars and others but I think in terms of natal, it does not stand up.

      1. In any case, I just signed up for law school so let’s see how that experiment goes with my “debilitated” mars 😀

    1. Nah. the power of Mars in Libra is absolute objectivity, weighing up pros and cons, delivering genuinely impartial advice and informed decision-making.

      1. Wish Upon a Star

        Thanks Mystic. That’s what this Mars in Libra does.

        I once read that Mars Libra meant the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. I did internalise it, I was younger then. Now they can go fuq themselves.

        It is important to be able to think for yourself and think on your feet, trust your gut.

  12. Absolutely love the helpful back ground into the exalted/ falling terms history! Really excellent context for how those terms/ concepts can be produce a limiting way of thinking about mars placements ( or any other placement for that matter.) Awesome as always!

  13. I’ve got mars in cancer so I’m wanting you to be right on this. Looking at that list of mars in cancer peeps though and a lot of them kinda really struggled… 😳

    I detest any Astro or any info anywhere that makes someone feel like shit about themselves /their lot and doesn’t offer anywhere to go, any fresh take, new updated perspective, some headroom. Yes: compassion is where it’s at,
    Agree that blanket judgements like this can fuq off and yes I see the irony in my blanket condemnation of this but at least that assessment is in defence of helping ppls learn, grow, and understand. And to be Kind!! To themselves and others,
    oh yes also happy borrowed rebirth day too Mr JC (you have to admit he was chill, also come on only a Pisces could be stuck on a cross, like Literally saying I Did This For You (although there are some interesting economic history arguments that he was too much of a threat to the political economy of the Roman Empire and paid the price), appear dead, then just basically sleep for 3 days straight and come out from under a rock looking god-tier refreshed and then need to mysteriously vanish for a ‘family meeting’ in ‘heaven’ , just saying)

    Someone I know has Mars exact Saturn in cancer square Pluto in libra. Like, whoa. They might knit… but they use steel wool and it’s for armour.

    Love from Mars in aqua who deeply appreciates all martians

    Omg!! Edit. What if JC had Mars in libra, like he rolled twelve deep, had a cool girlfriend who was from society money, had a big fuq off dinner party the night before he had to face the establishment, Fought for a fairer society

    Like if you’re due to be literally nailed to a cross you might as well have the world’s worst hangover and wish you were dead anyway right? I mean we’ve all been there 0.o
    Sort of

    1. Hey Pi, isn’t anything (italics) a fit to that first sentence?

      By that I mean anything that makes a blanket judgement about you or someone that thinks a particular gender, generation, social class, belief system, religion, lifestyle or whatever equals limitation or something wrong.

      I agree that sticks and stones still do actually hurt when the connect with the skin or the ego (despite all attempts to turn them into non effectual nothing at all blips) but ultimately we get to decide the value of anything be that about who we are, what we believe in or how we choose to live our lives.

      Blanket judgements are a long way from leaving earth and no, I have no other view or judgement on that. Earth is a place of polarity. I just accept that even if I don’t always like it.

      Maybe it’s all in the way we interpret or assimilate the info at hand?

      Anyway, it is also true that we (all) can kind of riff off these blanket judgements if they suit our agenda or appear favourable so we can’t have it both ways there. Eg – in Astro speak some favourable description of a placement like exalted planets – then why wouldn’t we dismiss that as the same crap as something negative?

      For me these kinds of themes are a call to dig in and re-appreciate my own journey, my gifts, my offerings, my mundane blessings and if nobody else sees them, seeks them out or cares about them then so what. It doesn’t change their value.

      And …

      Yes we’ve all been there… or many of us. Idk, no actual data on earth about that right now. NBN still failing our best hopes eh lols.

      Capitalism may be in it’s death throws – stand back and stay safe as it can lash out and suck you in to false futures.

      Being kind may be a new/emerging currency (well overdue) and may also need some hefty fight and energy to take it form it’s current standing. Note – it all starts with the self and we’ve all got really good at the superficial version of ticking that box so it’s dig deeper time…. but not the hole kind but the soul kind 😉

      Love from Mars in Cap 8th (allegedly exalted) which has at times been indisputably incriminated in digging me enormous holes (not the soul kind) I’ve had to figure out how to extract myself from x

    2. The word kind in French is gentile as in gentle pronounced ‘jonteel’, beautiful sound beautiful word and isn’t it true that kind people are mostly gentle.

  15. I don’t have this. I have it’s opposite but I can quite emphatically say that until I began to grasp the energy of Mars and how I might work with it there were most definitely occasions where it may have looked to be operating in detriment. Ok, perhaps they were mini – eras lol.

    1. I don’t have this either, & let me just say that in this mini-era of near total lockdown where i live (i.e, no going out AT ALL except for emergency food & meds – 5 weeks now) and having Mars in a Fire sign (conjunct Uranus & sq Jupiter), feels like there’s a part of me which is a wild beast trapped in a cage & i’m trying to keep it from devouring me by using only my mental powers. This is what i call natal Mars being detrimental to ones’ health. Also like to add that whenever i have done anything really stupid, it is because of a Mars action/reaction. It is the only planet i have to continually monitor if i don’t want to be a complete twat. In the end i am who i am & try to aim for the best version of me, but fuq, i do think it would be saner to have a less activated Mars.

      1. I am still out to some extent for work and family care but keeping it as slim as I can. If it hasn’t already, it’s going to start to grate at everyone’s Mars vibe I reckon.

        Your awareness + discipline/commitment/focus of (higher) Mars will help keep you in check.. but hey having Jupiter as my solar ruler I know that can also mean having your hands full… meaning Jupiter can have a bloomin’ excuse for everything hahaha… funny/not funny in my experience. Jupiter is grand at justifying just about anything but not showing up for you after the thing has backfired. Then you may need to deploy Mars or Saturn or some quick thinking Mercury – anything 😀

        Aries is my 12th so I am repeatedly reminded to watch Mars but the caveat is that sometimes it’ll bowl through to the keeper and I might be watching a re-run. Ugh. Dislike those and am also reminded that they are not to feel crap about but more of an educational documentary and I should take notes not slap myself.

        We are all just learning and evolving. Gotta say that a Sun/SN conjunct is a hall of mirrors with disco mist (yes.. I’m kinda stuck on that phrase of MM’s in some sort of weird loop though I know it’s really Neptune – um fck Neptune 7th btw) in it’s own special way but hey, it was my evolution choice right!

        Mistakes and f-ups are opportunities and the more I hang around this joint (earth) the more I ease up on the inner-critic. Sitting with the tension (so Mars eh!) is ultimately very illuminating.

        1. Sitting with the tension & inner critic much, last few days?….. cue trans Mars opp my Mercury (feeling like a bag full of fighting snarling cats) ….. & cue trans Saturn conjunct my IC & opposite Moon-MC… (i never see Saturn coming until i’m deep in it for some reason).
          You have no idea how much your words to me & up next door at Pi’s have reminded me & helped me right now, in this dark night (dramatic i know, but it’s been a doozy) … but maybe you do 🙂 Thank you so much, C. xxx

          1. Loving the images that I’ve created to match your words Skarab.

            Next we need a theme song…

            Luna is the subconscious psyche but she’s out in the open on the MC so probably not where she feels at her most comfortable all the time. Saturn propping on the IC is challenging her by squatting in her natural home like some relative you didn’t invite but showed up with an overnight bag unannounced running a white glove over your bureau whilst tut-tutting that you should have expected him.

            I know Saturn often gets associated with masculine energy (and that’s probably due to patriarchy and how we have come to know authority) but Capricorn is yin. When Saturn is in the 4th we think family or ancestors so when I think of Saturn 4th and then parents specifically I think of the conditioning parent or the one that packed the most influence.. well that could be grand parent as well but you get my drift. I don’t specifically think Saturn is masculine. Not at all.

            And I suppose since they’re both natural cardinal houses there’s a desire for motion and there’s Saturn saying we’ll do it on my time to Luna who might go with e-motion as an alternative to actual motion if it’s restricted. I can kind of relate as I have Saturn 10 and Luna in Cap.

            And thank you so much. No, I didn’t have that knowledge. I’ve got Chiron (tr) trine Sun at the mo and Neptune (tr) conjunct Chiron. … might be why I’m stuck on/in the disco mist theme haha. Just as well I have a kind of nostalgic fondness for 70s themes perhaps.

            Happy to be of service 🙂 I hope that you’re feeling some inner peace and clear still waters after those rough seas xx

            1. Yes, feeling more at peace and resolute to work this vibe, thank you,C. Loving the image of Saturn with white gloves wiping over surfaces. My home & psyche are gonna be gleaming after one year of its presence around my IC, taking into account the retro activity (fuq me that’s a long time & coinciding with obligatory domicile lockdown – talk about Saturn saturation).
              Your rant above at Pi’s, reminded me to rein in my overactive Mars and to stop engaging in pointless polarity-encrusted rages at society & individuals ….*I Will Survive* this dualist, polarised plane(t) ……. which brings me to Gloria Gaynor’s classic ageless disco fuq-off anthem wafting in through our kitchen window this morning from someone’s home – it was on loop, hahaha!…. which I’m sure you could direct towards your Neptune in 7th with middle fingers as batons. 🙂 xx

              1. Yay – exhales and then deploys Mars to get around the home in stealth without alerting Saturn to your every movement. 😀 You’ll probably get caught by surprise sometimes as you come out of one room into the next… and y’know there he is clipboard in hand peering over his specs at you…

                I’d anticipate it and have a short dismissive statement to give Saturn before excusing myself… really busy you see so can’t chat right now….send me an outlook invite next time please so I’m better prepared.

                And double yay!! Honestly if you nail polarity rage then you’ll free up and incredible amount of energy and sight. It them becomes acceptance.

                Just tell Mars that the Saturn gig is a temporary assignment just to keep him on his game whilst more worthwhile assignments are being formulated. Tell him he probably needs to take stock of his arsenal and clean his weapons anyways. And remind him that spontaneous shows of muscle will not win him an early promotion – and yes, those are orders corporal. Hop to it… you show him who’s boss around here!

                Hahahaha… I really do amuse myself.

                I think the important thing about all this is that it doesn’t say anything negative about you if you don’t fight against… it just doesn’t mean one thing or another. Others may interpret it as such and quite frankly so what.

                I am told that I am definitely not someone you spa with in a debate irl because you typically won’t win. Through my own evolution I’ve had times of putting the win above the debate/discussion and valuing righteousness (Saggo much?) over learning and exchange. It didn’t feel like a choice at the time so upon reflection it had to be reactive. Those times broadly came after times that felt the complete opposite, almost like I had no voice and nobody gave two hoots about my views anyway. I don’t know how Mars woke up no but he went to war on injustices (mine and others) and y’know.. when you start looking injustices are literally everywhere. Can one Mars fight all those battles and is it even his war? Anyway, his tours have pretty much finished now. I use his muscle for other things now and occasionally let him get dressed up in all his medals for a brief motorcade experience.

                That does not and will not ever mean I’ve got no fight in me for an injustice. In my gig I’m probably always doing a bit of fighting but there’s a lot more strategy at the table over being loose with a high powered weapon.

                Injustices in the world are easy targets to channel Mars energy into because of what they are. It gives our anger permission to be out there at full throttle but maybe the original or historic sources of that anger are actually more personal or local so we can openly wear an emotion that most humans prefer we do not wear openly.

                Anger travels with fear both in us and in the way it’s received. We are fearful of losing something so we deploy anger and the person in front of us experiences fear before perhaps responding with their anger. No meaningful dialogue is occurring. Mostly that’s old wound stuff running unchecked and when it can’t be used up externally it bites it’s own master.

                Nobody tells themselves to dial it back if they’re feeling happy. They don’t perhaps even register the peaceful feeling they have and certainly don’t try to unpack it for psyche analysis. But anger… hmm, well ain’t that another bag entirely eh.

                These are really just things I’ve learnt and experienced along the way….

                Now back to this disco mist… if I could see Gloria through it I might deploy Mars to knock her off her platformed shoes. For now I’ll contend with the middle finger batons (good call) and relief at escaping that torture.

                Keep your humour girl and may the force be with you always xx

  16. venus in virgo. mars in libra. have hated the ancient delineation for SO LONG. thank you for bringing us out of the dirty much of the past. growing older has helped shape the purpose of my virgo venus(service and discernment)and libra mars (leadership at the rank of general,when necessary). i will now go back and finish reading what you have so generously written. bless you always.

    1. Every Mars in libra I know is a hella negotiator. If there’s something complex to be worked up with multiple parties, I would definitely want a Libra Mars involved.

  17. Mars in Aries BUT it’s in the 12th house, womp womp

    I am resilient, it can take me a long time to get things done or solve problems but I never give up.

    1. Yes I have Mars in Scorpio in the 12th house. I wondered whether my procrastination stems from this. But when the pressure’s on, I get it done.

  18. Mars in moon or Venus rules signs is not compromised, just as Venus in mars signs (Aries and Scorpio) is not a single-for-life sentence.

    Mars in the above signs needs to find new ways to express itself that it doesn’t inherently have perhaps. That requires more watching, listening, interacting with ones environment and others in order to find that balance. These are actions but perhaps have been categorized as ‘passive’ actions. Are they though? Anyone else so those things and find it can be exhausting?

    Given it is extra work than say a mars in aries has to do to find it’s balance, buuut once established and reflected on and used there is a strength there that mars in aries could not have, would likely not even notice or want to put in that kinda work. It’s a different kind of work.

    Same with Venus in mars ruled signs. I have venus in aries and she’s been a helluva teacher these past few years as I’ve come to reflect through astrology (disclaimer she also squares sat/ura/ASC and Neptune respectively)

    My Venus in aries-i love to compete as a way to bond and don’t give a fuq about actually winning but I will try my hardest and be kinda goofy about it. This is often seen just as force or aggression. Those whom can see past that and are mature enough to articulate when it’s too much for them are true comrades. For if I’m directly told by another that they need a break or are overwhelmed -if they can tell me how they feel or what they’re experiencing- I can reel it back or change course. (It might take me a minute to reel it in but I do)

    Likewise I’ve had to learn how to do this – to slow myself down and check in with others – is this okay? What do you need/want right now etc. Sooooo nooott something Venus Aries wants to do. In fact at first I saw it as a weakness but really doing it brought me into discovering and feeling my own vulnerability and appreciating that in others. That I can passionately love in connection with others vs just loving passionately and disconnecting the moment I don’t feel that anymore.

    My natural mode to bond is to compete but in order to mature and have higher values/get my true needs met I’ve had to learn to read my environment differently and integrate new behaviours i saw in others that don’t come naturally to me.

    And Mara who naturally would love to move directly and forcefully has to slow himself down in ‘bad’ signs so he can see there’s more than just him or his desires. Something if given the option he would pass on

    1. Good read on your Venus evolution and insights. I have Venus (alleged) detriment also (different house/sign) so this is interesting.

    2. Yes!! Thank you for your Venus in aries words. Like detriment, fuq off, I have always considered that an affront. That Aries placement has surged me out of some major life shite so i do like her and have mucho gratitude
      I have also faced the same sometimes hard learned adjustments, yet share a sporting love of noisy competitiveness… It goes doubly with a 4th house Libra node. Learning to play nice with others.

  19. Man, I hope this stuff doesn’t make people feel bad – though the idea of “detriment” is probably supposed to. They’re tools through which you can “divine” your own style and approach to things. Nothing is inherently better than anything else, it’s just how you wield it – being a super mars-in-aries “bull in a china shop” has its own complications, I’m sure… (and I say this as a regular sun-in-aries “bull in a china shop”)

      1. I was being serious. I actually thought it was reassuring cause the comments about it are usually such a horror show.

    1. Fellow Saturn in Leo-er here too… I’ve been coming across some interesting and perspective-challenging views on this.
      For example, consider
      – whether some Leo traits are lurking in your shadow
      – when the going gets tough (saturn), you get Leo
      – you may be more leo than you think

      1. That’s very interesting. Thanks for the feedback. My dad and brother are both Leo sun signs so there could be shadow elements in my family drama. Maybe when the going gets tough I SHOULD get Leo.

  20. Astro novice here. My Mars is in Aries in the first house, seemingly a strong position from what I understand, but it’s squaring Neptune, Jupiter, and Saturn. Does this explain my lack of go-get em attitude despite my strong mars placement?

    1. It depends…

      A mix of transit and natal, yes?

      I would probably start with natal placements and get to know that terrain before I started looking at transits too much but if there is something you’re really feeling check it out. Mars will be working (he always does) but reading you it sounds like he’s perhaps not working out in the open.

      What areas of life are feeling like that Mars energy is being thwarted or you just cant get the movement and motivation you want?

    2. Mars in Aries/1st house likes rescue missions and comeback stunts. And the new paradigm since Saturn-Pluto in Jan is prob just the thing to activate it. Also, if you have not seen it, my Astral DNA birth chart report has useful takes on aspects like Mars-squares!

    3. Yes I understand my Mars in Leo is squared by Neptune, and my sun and moon are squared by Neptune too, so hard to get going but it’s great for feeling the energy in say qi gong or martial arts

  21. Mars in Libra here and always felt the sting of hearing it was weak here, think I internalised that judgy message. Only thing is mine is tightly conjunct my Sun in the 9th and loosely conjunct my Uranus and MC conjunction, so I have a lot more unpredictable and potentially radical/stirring it up energy than is at first apparent. Add in Sagg rising for extra I told you so zeal. It is injustice that tends to get me going, and hypocrisy. I’d say I’m tolerant but taking mental notes (maybe the benefit of, being ‘in it’s detriment’) and when the chips finally fall they cascade with no mercy. As I say, it is injustice and deception which riles it though, so the anger tends to come through as an unstoppable force of truth intended to enlighten rather than any desire that I’m aware of for destruction or revenge.

    1. Holy crap do you work in the justice system or some kind of international research on equality or something.. that’s a terrific amount of legal eagle vibe.
      Barrister..? Journalist?
      It’s all a bit establishment I get it but still

  22. Mars in Cancer 1st house with an Aries sun in the 10th and Saturn in Capricorn 7th house. Libra NN in the 4th house. So the cardinal cross Is my foundation. As for mars in cancer I have relied on it many times. It adds a canniness and emotional sensitivity to my Aries exuberance and blunt force. I use mars to make it very clear to people that my focus is on family and home matters first so work projects and social connections that respect that focus will be met with open arms and great effort. Any attempt to harm or negatively influence that focus will be met in the opposite manner with little subtlety.

    1. This is a good spin on this. I have Mars in cancer and always felt like it handicapped my aggression. I am very incompetent in a situation of competition. Just had an abusive boss and decided to leave the job for example. So you have any other examples of how you’ve used your Mars in cancer to your advantage?

      1. I suppose using your scenario, my mars in cancer would quietly line up some back up work first, save a little money, get my closest friends in the office on side and patiently wait for the opportunity to publicly slam the abusive boss like only an Aries can, then grab my stuff, hold my head up high and hand in my preprepared resignation to either that bosses superior or him while informing him that your legal people will be in touch with him soon to teach him a lesson that he will surely never forget.

        1. That’s an excellent play. For a few reasons it was not possible for me. We were the only 2 in the office for example. I suppose being an Aries sun ameliorates the Mars in cancer and makes your overall personality a bit more direct. Maybe how the Mars in cancer functions for you is as good family/work boundaries.

          My last role was events and marketing. From memory you are in marketing as well? Would you be up for a 20 minute phone conversation? I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts on where the industry is heading.

          1. Sure email : zuvuyu at gmail dot com
            Leave me your name mobile and time zone and I’d be happy to call and chat

  23. My Mars is in Pisces, which often gets a bad rap, but I find that I have a helluva lot of motivation and guts around anything to do with my spiritual life…also, no fear of ghosts!

    1. that is so interesting as I know someone with Mars in Pisces who is extremely practical and in fact, defines herself by her no-nonsense, stoic, get-on-with-it persona but she sees ghosts everywhere and has no fear. People think she has Tourette’s syndrome, as she’ll suddenly look up and say “fuq off” to the air around her or startle and swear if she walks into a room and sees something.

    2. Hi I’m a Mars in Pisces too (Conjunct Chiron in Pisces), late degrees. Some astrologers say Mars is diffuse here, uncontained, ethereal, everywhere & no where! It’s going to be interesting when Neptune passes by – I hope it’s not an experience of delusion, more one if dance!! I’d propose that music, art & spirited ventures are the ideal way to action / express energy for me. It’s sometimes been hard to focus, to streamline priorities in a linear manner. Dreams are important & and a visionary, occultic life. Pisces Mars is compassionate and creative too!

      1. Funny, when i have encountered and also become a ghost in bizarre lucid dreamscapes, i have DANCED. Really foot and thigh from hip grounding, claiming my space, but moving always moving, while glancing at my own sleeping body, the lividity starting to show.

        1. Wish Upon a Star

          Thanks Millie.

          I love the sound of that grounding dance. I will use it. Or just stamp my feet like a Taurus Moon should.

      2. My husband is late Mars in Pisces- early Pisces Moon. His retreat is old little-guy-wins, sentimental movies. But he busts it out and donates a lot of legal work to balance those scales of justice.

  24. Sun/Mars/Mercury in Taurus 4th H And Venus/Moon in Aries, Aqua Rising. So I do what I feel like and I do it energetically and don’t mind telling anyone I think matters.

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