“Lilith embodies the presence of an archaic form of feminine strength that ignores any patriarchal discourse of power and dominance and allies itself with those forces that affirm life itself.”
Kocku Von Stuckrad
“Lilith represents something that has become unconscious and is striving to become conscious again. Let’s call it archaic energy, spiritual femininity, something akin to the wisdom of the goddess. As long as we don’t have access to this energy we experience it psychologically as loss, suppression, isolation, emptiness, addiction and above all power struggles.”
Hannelore Traugott
Virgos get shit done. It was a Virgo who invented the dictionary. It was a Virgo who invented birth control. There are many examples of ultra-competent visionary Virgo people in the Virgo category. But i think double Virgo (Sun + Mercury) Rose McGowan may just have kicked off a new wave of feminist consciousness. I posted on it here a few days ago and also on the Astro School but the momentum now is unmistakable.
Rose McGowan’s initial outing of Harvey Weinstein has started something huge and what’s more she did it on her Lilith Return. McGowan is Moon-Lilith in Sagittarius – the dominant astral theme behind this whole new wave feminism is Lilith in trine to Uranus in Aries. With a Saturn kicker. So it will stick. Saturn endures. This is not a flare-up and things then go back to ‘normal.’
Reese Witherspoon, Lupita Nyong’o and multiple others are talking about their experiences of sexual assault and harassment from men, Harvey or not, Hollywood, in publishing, everywhere. The #MeToo tag on Twitter. It is both incredibly triggering AND healing to read the countless stories. Not to mention the conversations it has spawned with my daughter and her friends, the Pluto in Sagittarius girls now moving into their peak “Harvey years.” I vividly remember the year i was 19-20 and it felt as if every time I left the house, something happened.
And that mysterious something that I always thought was a weirdness about me that seemed to attract weird scenarios was in fact just relentless non-stop assault and harassment. These tales from, well, everywhere but especially from strong, successful females, have been strengthening even as they’ve bought memories rushing back in from where-ever they went.
That swift turn to rage and hate from a man on the street when you don’t respond to his unsolicited “compliment.” The threats, whining, hissing and fervent gropes on the job – later hotly denied because of, you know, your craziness.
Related: gas-lighting, threats, the refusal to let you end the “relationship,” bullshit career promises and the pretending they were interested in your work and then the situations requiring police intervention. Although logically we always know the phenom is of course not just us, there is a chasm between that and actually reading the accounts of these people brave enough to share their stories.
So the new feminist wave came with Lilith in Sagittarius (candour) being amplified by innovative Uranus and loosely in league with the North Node in Leo – we speculated that this NN in Leo might evolve Hollywood, earlier in the year but did not envision this.
It is worth remembering that in terms of classically female archetypes, Venus is woman in relation to Other – relationships, seduction, the Moon is woman as maternal and Lilith is the outsider, the feminist, the rebel who defines and validates herself.
Of course there are other archetypes – Artemis/Nike for athletes and Vesta as predominantly creative souls, Athene for when your core relationship is with a civic duty or your vocation….But this current energy IS Lilith and it is worth thinking about where we are at with Lilith Vibe, our own personal Lilith energy and where this awareness can be practically grounded. Because Lilith is moving into Capricorn – 2018 = Lilith, Saturn and Pluto in Capricorn.
Thoughts?
Image: Rithika Merchant
Re reading my astro charts for Lilith placements. This feels very apt rn. Grateful you store your work Mystic xx
Lilith in Aries here. Thank you for drawing my attention to this blog.
My lilith is in Capricorn in the first house. Exactly conjunct north node. Opposite pluto and Mercury in 9 th house. I am struggling to emerge as the individual I am.
Lilith in Cancer, 12th house, witchy af & proud of it!
Nothing to add here (am involved in lots of direct action, mutual support & spreading awareness of certain people’s evil doings within my llittle world) but I will say that the supporters & survivors have not always been the people you would expect – and haven’t always had the reactions you would think fitting. And there are still so many people silenced, right now, by their abusers, and by the triggering of this trauma. We need to hold space for them too.
Oh, & beware male narcissists grooming their next victims by writing sympathetic comments & leaving sad reacts. Some vile abusers with a history of life-endangering violence have been doing this in the last week. All this shows me is BELIEVE WOMEN and anyone who’s been assaulted. Believe them, every time. it could literally save your life.
Lilith-Saturn-Pluto in Cap suggests a consolidation of a new order, no? Lilith brings the chaos and unleashing of collective wounds. Then follows the Saturn-Pluto boundary setting in aid of lasting change. Some kind of prominent new charity, organisation or new law (Cap = politics) designed to honour the victims of sexual violence & abuse. We’ll probably have a few more political sex scandals too. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if this brought down Trump somehow? Entertain my optimism…
And as ever, Mystic, thank you for the community you foster here & the guidance you offer, the unflinching honesty of your perspective. The clarity of insight & personal emotional undertow you bring to addressing such issues is really admirable. Eternal life inspiration! ✨
No, NO! Once again what has been a very measured understandable reaction to injustice is reformulated as somehow the problem, rather than ongoing abuse of power which disproportionately affects women and children.
Thing is the men who really do understand this, are already working out there with other men, being supportive of women and building better ways of being in community together, they are not telling us to pipe down, not be angry and attend to their hurt feelings. Really if you get butthurt with the mere whiff of women fighting oppression then you have a problem. And then getting everyone to sooth YOUR feelings -That is gaslighting, And it is just plain wrong.
Hear hear. Well said Syrynx.
Your story is uncannily similar to what my partner is going through. He is a tall male, in a female only teaching department. His bully is female and has put hinder a 2 year performance review process, just an official process to cover a more intensified bullying. He was close to quiting and losing his career too, and he like you is a good man and a great teacher. Dont let them take you down, fight! Official complaints, everything. Educate yourself on your options, I dont know where you live but in Oz we have workcover and complaint processes within the education department itself. Fight, fight fight! Document, document, document. The truth will out!
The winds of change blow strong these days….
Is it the imminent age of Aquarius?
Either way we are being called to new ways of relating and experiencing connection on earth and it’s asking a lot from everyone. It’s asking us, perhaps challenging us is a better description, to cease acting from seperateness.
I recently read “To be a man” by Robert Augustus Masters. Very powerful reading for women and of course for the intended audience…men. The content is largely about violence, pornography, sexualisation, relating and … shame. It’s a powerful read and relevant to this content.
Without making excuses for men or justifications for the stance women are taking I wonder if we need to come to the table together somehow to work through this in a way that isn’t shame based? Women carry the shame of the experience and men carry their version which I doubt I can legitimately sumarise so won’t. It’s a rather insidious feeling that breeds upon itself like wild rabbits.
Humans have been wronging humans since time began in all sorts of awful ways and humans have been rising up against humans who have wronged for the same amount of time. Both sides of that dynamic seem to perpetuate the other into action but not resolution….a2nd we get caught in the perpetual tug of war dynamic.
I’ve cut men down and made them feel small in my younger years and not given it a thought but that is also a violation. It might not be sexual but it was a verbal kick in the nuts so….? My point is absolutely all of us have been victims and perpetrators at some point if we are honest.
My point is NOT that women aren’t entitled to safety and respect. Not at all…I have my own experiences, don’t always feel as safe as I’d prefer and believe this should be a fundamental right for women yes, but all humans.
I don’t pretend to have answers. I don’t intend to offend anyone who disagrees but what I see more and more these days are people insisting others come around to their way of thinking whilst advocating free speech. I don’t get that. We have to be prepared to listen and try to understand, and not just from politically correct politeness. I ain’t preachin…I’m a student here.
It isn’t beasy being with your view and allowing someone else theirs…..respectfully. It takes consciousness and the ability to suspend our own agenda. I was in one such discussion today. I’m tired. My ego wanted to fight and be right. So did theirs. Then it wanted to shut down talks. They ignored me persistently and talked right over me. Hard not to behave in kind and if not that then what…walk away? Staying in tough content is hard work. I both honoured myself by staying in integrity and disappointed myself by slipping into ego and wanting to control the outcome. Reminding myself we are not seperate felt harder than I wanted it to be. Easy to say……yes, really easy to say, even easier to type. I hope to see a time in life where we can truly come to the table on ancient matters such as this one that are core wounds to our relating and connection.
Though I respect and welcome contrary views please have some confidence that I’ve not written this based on anyone’s views here. I’m not finger pointing. I actually haven’t read them all and am not trying to shame anyone else for their views. I’m also not diminishing the seriousness of this issue and not without personal experiences.
I believe that we as women are all friends, sisters, mothers, daughters and partners of men as well and as such part of the same tribe and sphere of influence and not just victims of half of it. There are so many great men in our world that can be encouraged to pick up this mantle and just as many fabulous women who will meet men as equals as both stand to stop injustices of any kind, this included. Now that would be a great way to usher in the age of Aquarius!
Beasy = easy. It isn’t beasy or easy typing on a phone particularly for us thesis types!
Thank you for posting this, I feel the same way. I just hadn’t scraped together the words to encompass everything as this is such a large and long standing issue – since humans existed, really.
I’m glad to find kindred spirits here, I hope to read more of your posts here more often 🙂
Thank you C x what I was trying to say but you have said it in a better way. Any ideology or process that separates us along racial, gender age lines just perpetuates division and misunderstanding. Maintaining unity consciousness is very hard in a society that asks you to take sides and requires self checking on a daily basis. The way I was taught to find that place was to first attempt neutrality, neutrality leads to equanimity, move towards the centre of any issue and you will find the power position. That place sits you at the bottom of the unity vortex, the axle. You can then move up and down this vortex without leaving the centre.
The apex of this vortex is the contact point of higher guidance, higher mind and our next level of consciousness.
Hey mate,
Just wanted to remind you of your resilience. And without teaching a teacher the word really means soul strength, ability to stand in integrity when others don’t and hold truth whilst knowing you can ride something out and no matter what ride up. Well..that’s my unofficial meaning.
Is Saturn (tr) 6th? He’s been a force majeure this year imo and certainly in my experience so on top of all the potent activity in the skies it would be remiss to ignore his handywork. He did kill off his dad – Ouranous – by chopping his balls off and throwing them in the sea. Venus was born from the foam.
That aside thoughts of suicide are serious mate so please get support if you need it and stay connected to your tribe online and irl.
Hard to see better days in dark times but they are there. Look after yourself like it’s your most important job on the world. It is. You’re valuable and worth looking after.
Hugs x
*rise*
*RISE*
Rise up and above.
Typing on my phone and the typos inevitably get me….
Glad to hear you have supports and don’t diminish yourself via gender on this post or others. Women need men to be men.
I’ve been on a phone typing the last couple of days and is tre tedious!
Hehe…yeah do Saturn first! If I survive it I’ll be some sort of poster child for a 7/8 house transit but 8 has a while to play out so what relief Dec 20 brings is yet to be seen. I can’t even begin to speak about my year but if you asked me to describe it in one word I would not choose ‘easy’.
Mutables live in the crazy. All my mutable houses are inhabited. Thank goodness for earth. Sometimes it’s mud and I’m stuck (and lemme tell you a stuck mutable trumps crazy) but it’s still feels good on the feet.
I hope the dust settles for you soon!
Thanks for this post, Mystic. I am deeply stirred. #MeToo
Hey PF,
Hang in there.
You mentioned Neptune somewhere. What’s happening with that? You have Pluto in 7th by transit or natal?
I’m feeling the Chiron square Saturn transit strongly at the moment. Ends around my birthday by which time I’ll be shiny and new and ready to soak up the Jupiter in Scorp vibes transiting my 10th house.
Ouch! So when Saturn moves into Aqua in approx. 4 years time you’ll have Saturn on your moon. Saturn on moon is not pleasant but not as bad as Pluto and not long lasting either.
A Virgo friend of mine has natal Cap moon in 7th. 2 years ago she discovered that her partner of 15 years cheated on her. Recently she started dating again and had another guy reject her again. It was messy and horrible and i kept telling her he was bad news but she just had to go there. The Phoenix can’t avoid the fire before rising from the ashes.
Pluto exact on her moon right now. As is things couldn’t get any worse she also found out that her dad has cancer. So she’ll be hit with Saturn in Cap soon as well.
Anyway, transhits pass eventually. Some just get hit one after the other. When you’re in hell keep going!
So sorry PF. Hang in there mate
Hey PF, the Education/Teaching system was always been hard- (even tho it has been a good ‘job’ in many respects), I’ve always felt that to be successful i needed to keep at least half of me under cover, only revealed to a select few colleagues, probs easier for me than you as my Mars Puto Uranus conjunct is hidden away in my 12th House…
Lately though, I can’t even be bothered almost to pretend, there’s Always another sociopathic Deputy principal wrecking the camaraderie of the staff, super petty little- dept heads, different schools, same same old power plays.
The system is pretty f’d up. I feel you, am trying to plan my escape.
I am just watching an astrological video on youtube that is discussing the fact that on Oct 5th, Venus and Mars were conjunct and in opposition to Chiron. The astrologer is framing this as a reset between the energies of Venus and Mars with Chiron opening old wounds to be healed.
According to this timeline – https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/business/harvey-weinstein.html, the first Times article in which Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey wrote about their investigation into the allegations came out on Oct. 5 with Rose McGowan and others coming forward after it’s release.
With all this talk about Lilith’s influence, this Venus/Mars conjunction escaped my notice until just now. The Chiron opposition was a 6 degree orb that day, but the subsequent days of events unfolding had tighter orbs with both planets.
Sorry to hear about your troubles, Uranian brother. If I knew you in real life I’d buy you a coffee and let you talk/vent/rant my ear off. Dont succumb to the negative shit. You are way more valuable than that garbage. There is always love and light around you especially in the darkest moments, dont forget that xx
Neptune is tough. At least with Pluto and Saturn there is the sense of breakdown for a greater good in it all… to build something better. Neptune leaves you with illusions and deceptions and then you get washed up back to reality if youre lucky. I would try and mitigate damage on the Neptune front with strong Saturn action wherever possible.
My current incarnation as a fruity satellite (don’t ask .. Uranus DC/ Asc issues) answered you but the post got lost in moderation world. Will re-post after my repose if it hasn’t appeared.
…..Aah what the heck, i’ll do it now. Who cares if it duplicates.
*****
Hey Pf, just a thought, but from my reckoning (seeing we share the 59 Crab Le Fab vintage & some transits) it could very well be Uranus wot’s causing your present state. But not in the way you think. Isn’t it square your Sun exact & conjunct your MC to boot? That’s pretty full ON energy, even for a Uraniac such as you.
I had Uranus sq my Sun in 2014-2015 & oh dear god what a shite fest of explosions – I was fighting all the windmills. Not to mention my nervous energy levels – enough to power a galaxy. And the visceral need to isolate myself at the same time from all society. I’d be tearing up the mountain for isolation while at the same time planning sabotages of all social constructs.
BUT you also have Uranus trine exact your Chiron now too. Maybe you can do some fab self healing by using this unemotional/detached vibe of Uranus energy for an insight into your Chiron. It’s 8th h placement in Aqua ha! does indicates a genius (if crazy) talent for helping/rehabilitating others – be it through teaching/workshops/writing ….soon Mars will be hitting your NN in 3r H so think about it & be ready to act.
Also, are there ways you could “teach” without going through the System?…Warning – ideas could come in a flash while you breathe deeply, hydrate loads & detach by fiddling with your T3. X
This last para made more sense to me than any of your astro-tech talk. Therefore: hugs.
P.S. everything will be alright.
Hey Pf, just a thought, but from my reckoning (seeing we share the 59 Crab Le Fab vintage & some transits) it could very well be Uranus wot’s causing your present state. Isn’t it square your Sun exact & conjunct your MC to boot? That’s pretty full ON energy, even for a Uraniac such as you.
I had Uranus sq my Sun in 2014-2015 & oh dear god what a shite fest of explosions – I was fighting all the windmills. Not to mention my nervous energy levels – enough to power a galaxy. And the visceral need to isolate myself at the same time from all social constrains.
BUT you also have Uranus trine exact your Chiron now too. Maybe you can do some fab self healing by using this unemotional/detached vibe of Uranus energy for an insight into your Chiron. It’s 8th h placement in Aqua ha! does indicates a genius (if crazy) talent for helping/rehabilitating others – be it through teaching/workshops/writing ….soon Mars will be hitting your NN in 3r H so think about it & be ready to act.
Also, are there ways you could “teach” without going through the System?…Warning – ideas could come in a flash while you breathe deeply, hydrate loads & detach by fiddling with your T3. X
On a Facebook page – Transcendental Karmic Astrology, the groups Admin made the awful statement that these women were “whiney starlets” who was more at fault than Weinstein, and got what they deserved (He sounds like Conservative Congressmen here in the states who think rape is the woman’s fault). I lost it and wrote back that the admin shouldn’t victim blame, and he patronized me by calling me “darling” among other things. Very fatalist, backward thinking. It’s amazing how you can contort astrology to fill your worldview. I have Lilith conjunct my sun in Leo in the 5th, square Saturn, and Neptune, and I am completely over this pervasive culture of harassment.
Hey PF you have friends here – talk to us and chase those thoughts away. I hope your Uranity is reminding you that this shit too shall pass.
I think we can hold space for women’s stories and voices, and now is an important time for this. Hollywood (Neptune)has always been a mirror into the worlds subconscious. I like the shift I’m seeing towards equality for all which should be the end goal, not women crushing men or whatever. Read an interview the other day of Gwyneth Paltrow where she mentioned that she theorizes that there is an unconscious fear of women having conversations (power) around their bodies etc. It really rings true!
To me the Lilith vibe is fiercely independent catalyst for needed change/ rebalance (maybe bc of my Libra Lilith haha). I’ve studied Torah (didn’t see any Lilith there) and I was raised Catholic..it definitely vibes more Medieval myth demonizing a goddess from an older time who didn’t get reappropriated into sainthood.
Yeah. Divide and conquer. Same historical principles as no gathering in public places, the enslaved not being allowed to speak in their native tongue, removing children from their clan (or taking the husband’s name, for example, ooh controvershhh!) to discontinue cultural practice and memory, overwriting or ignoring existing rulerships, etc.
Whoa yes…”no gathering in public spaces /not able to speak in native language” gives me chills
A lot of the stuff in the US currently has this tone
Patriachy is hell for EVERYONE – it is a sickness and a cultural enslavement of the mind. But rather than blame women who have become so entrenched in it they essentially have Stockholm Syndrome, we have to keep working to free them of the bonds they don’t even know they have. Some women perpetuate the abuse, while others simply don’t want to be empowered and are so threatened by those who would provide leverage against the very poison they’ve been indoctrinated with they lash out. Blessed are these women, for they are perhaps the ones who need our help most.
Yes this. Plus until voices rise up people can think it’s not systemic, they’re over-reacting, nothing bad really happened, this is what everyone has to do to get ahead, put up or shut up, blah blah blah. But when someone is brave enough to speak up and times it well (McGowan is a fuqing hero) – wow!
true…I do think most people go into denial just to deal with living.
definitely
“we speculated that this NN in Leo might evolve Hollywood, earlier in the year but did not envision this. ”
Any evolution is founded upon a shedding I think. Before the new can arrive, and the new isn’t just forming, it’s always been there – rather the new is being revealed through the shedding of what was before, what is no longer needed. The shedding and polishing of Hollywood in this case, and it’s the shedding and polishing of what goes on behind the scenes would unsurprisingly be one helluva gross collection of fluids in a boil that’s beginning to be lanced.
I get the comments of Davidl. As a mom of boys, it is really hard right now to be a male. Men are getting attacked from many angles in society.
Rose McGowan is one of the famous a few who put on it out there. From what I read (and I’m not in any way associated with the entertainment industry) there were women who helped set up Weinstein “meetings”. The problem and abuse is/was insidious and those who made it kept quiet, too. (Not that I judge- survival) AND haven’t there been child male actors abused and no one spoke out?
The abuse goes both ways and everyone kept quiet.So, do we also go back and discuss , the “alleged” Bill Clinton Quid Pro Quo? And his wife’s attacks and denials and the pay offs?
And I understood the list by Mystic to be an illlustration that the issue is on some level everywhere- not just one industry. Not ALL men (which it isn’t ) but anyWHERE.
I think men can have a difficult time understanding – particularly when they are NOT the type who would behave in an inappropriate manner. The magnitude with the Me Too has floored me. The numbers are Truly mind boggling. I think we are all still processing.
yes, women helped cover it up too. Were they in denial? or didn’t care I always wonder.
I had women who witnessed me being abused and looked away, laughed it off and blamed me. Women I trusted.
Corey Haim spoke up against child rape/pedos in the music industry. I hope everyone is listening.
I do think many women don’t cover it up intentionally, but either don’t feel safe in calling out abusers or can’t bear to face the truth that it is happening.
Lilith currently sitting exactly on my disc and 1degree orb squaring my Saturn Chiron conj. This energy feels feminine (Lilith’s definition of feminine) feels personal.
I will say the silence of supposedly good men on this issue has been very telling. And that’s not even considering those who are clearly threatened by women saying they’ve had enough of this fuqed Patriarchy – it speaks volumes to me regarding their character.
“I see your true colors shining through” 😉
By contrast, my heart swells with love and appreciation for men like Van der Beek et al who join us in speaking up and out against the tyranny of evil men.
Yes
Oh yeah the gaslighting. This was an OPEN secret, so lots of complicity. Actually I have a visceral dislike of Helen Mirren precisely because she made a really dismissive statement about rape, actually more than one statement. and oh my god the lining up to defend Polanski. Rose McGowan is a fucking hero.
How amazing. The power of the engine doesn’t feel show-off growly like, say, a Ferrari. Like it is there to do the bidding of a driver, not take off with the driver. It responds to a good driver, instead of the driver taming a mustang!
I’m presuming the date not the year 🙂 (Or you wear it well..?)
Some family have had Peugeot but i’ve never driven them nor noticed much about the engines while in them. But they were secondhand runabouts (oh god the cars, not the drivers) and i presume you’ve got experience with much more performance type engines.
Funnily enough, the Virgo in our fam is a terrible driver, but knows engines inside out. Bigger picture stuff and more connected to other physics. There’s a new Virgo, though, and god forbid i wish away the delightful years but part of me is super keen to jump time and see what they become skilful at and drawn to doing.
Me, I’m born on the same day as the inventor of the steam engine and an Olympic speed skating champion (and Edgar Cayce, just in case it didn’t seem Piscean enough.) It’s all about the power to get there! Though “there” is a moot point.
Oh christ! I forgot about your mum’s birthdate. It really must be something i push aside after self-reflecting to check any shadow-side pinging notes (which i do always because, you know Pluto shadows Sun, that’s Pluto in Virgo opposing).
And yeah all the Fire: Sag Ascendant, Leo MC, Aries Mercury-Chiron, 5th house Sun). Steam has to be used or it makes 3rd degree burns! (Awesome basic physics contingent for a Sag Rising.)
Explosions (with Uranus in the mix, with the Pluto Mars Sun Merc, and the Mercury Aries in trine to Jupiter) are just necessary. Not to mention Neptune rules the gases. Only fires i have ever had at home involve plastics.
Ha ha Jumpin Jack Flash it’s a gas gas gas, as you well know.
Yes i hate that my dob/chart reminds. If it does, or if my voice does here. It’s not a question for you, just an occasional wince.
So Katakan! There’s always a gift with a Katakan. Thank you. It took a while for me to get used to your voice too. Mutables! In Earth?? What a concept! Ah no it’s a thing!
Ah, Pluto in Libra. Aside though, does his inventive side involve cars and machinery, or is it in a different realm?
Holy cow, early Scorp is powerful.
I had a feeling he would be informed and skilled by dad but make it in an adjacent field.
Rise Sister Rise
Lilith/Saturn/Pluto in Cap trine Uranus in Taurus may lead to tangible financial equality, reducing the gender pay gap.
Good point. Lisa Wilkinson has hopefully paved the way
Interesting to read about those two radio DJs, one male and one female, who were paid differently. The female challenge the male on this, on air, on international women’s day. To his credit he did something about it.
I like this idea!
Ok, so Jupiter conjunct my Sun in Scorpio, Saturn conjunct my Neptune in Saggitarius and New Moon conjunct my Pluto and Lilith in Libra. Have given up alcohol, cigarettes and started Bright Line Eating this week 😀
How quickly does Lilith move from house to house?
NINE MONTHS. And the trad patriarchal Jewish legend is that she birthed demons.
Is it wrong this makes me giggle a bit?
There Is no trad Jewish legend about Lilith. But do go on 😉
Lilith was sort of wedged in to Jewish myth during medieval times and is not mentioned in actual traditional texts.
She was originally Babylonian I think.
No it isn’t in proper religious texts, Judaism, but is referred to in stories and myths. So why does the story get associated with Jewish myth? Is it a sort of Christian propaganda about Lilith, whom they won’t even acknowledge, but want to put about without owning it?
Or is it something more like a myth overlaid over the People of the Book traditions, to nurture a moral warning?
They have dybbuk and djinni and demons. Perhaps it is a cultural vilification of those ancient belief systems that acknowledged or worshipped a non-maternal, non-submissive, not-accepting style of female sexuality and independence. None of the three religions’ intrinsic texts support that discrimination.
I found the following article helpful in understanding Lilith and her trajectory through Sumero-Babylonian myth, the Talbut, 13th C Kabbalists & to her modern day interpretation.
http://witcombe.sbc.edu/eve-women/7evelilith.html
Thanks cherry this covers it
Thank you. This answers perfectly with references to text.
I see one problem here and that is the identifying of Lilith as this tough outsider energy not just fighting for justice but as female energy fighting for female justice against male injustice. Aside from having an issue with attributing a sexual orientation to the planetary orbs, I feel that In some respects an outsider energy could be detrimental in any attempt at actually solving these problems. Maybe it’s an outsider male energy causing these issues and not one that can be lumped under males in general ? Let’s work together to make the changes that need to be made, let’s not allow any one sided abhorrent nature to continue to split us along the lines of gender. Stereotyping is the lowest form of discrimination. It never leads to solutions, just more division, anger and violence.
I don’t think that the Harvey phenomenon is “outsider” male energy. It is very much the status quo… insider energy if you will… which is what the #metoo hashtag was trying to get at. I don’t know if you are on social media, but hopefully the impression that you get is that it is the experience of pretty much every woman that you know to be sexually harassed at some point in their lives.
Insider energy will perpetuate the status quo. Outsider energy is the hope to shake things up.
PS. There is actually nothing in this post about men in general. It is about the feminine experience. Where exactly are you seeing the stereotyping?
PPS. If you prefer not to be split down gender lines, consider standing with women when we ask to be treated as people… rather than asking us to stand down. We aren’t saying “men are terrible” we are saying ” we are people too and how we’ve been treated is not ok”. Do you not agree with that?
Agree this is insider (aka power) energy that takes sexual harassment as its modus operandi.
Indeed it is far from outsider energy. It is dominant behavior. It is rare to find men that aren’t behaving inappropriately at least in the music industry.
Who is ‘we’ ? All women ?
Am I part of your ‘we’, no, so purely by me being born with a dick I’m outside your ‘we’ that’s my issue.
I suppose what I’m saying is that I don’t agree with the anthropomorphism of astral entities.
Aside from that I stand with and have stood by women and men all my life. I have never stood by silently and allowed assault to happen without taking steps to stop it. I am with you all at every step and have suffered the consequences of exposing those inner cliques. In the end I am doing what any person male or female should do to change things so that everyone is treated with respect.
The issue for me is the constant battle between groups that are torn apart into us and them simply because they are born on one side or another. The power position is in the center and that’s the place I seek out when I feel the pull to one side or the other.
Oppression and injustice is everywhere and is perpetrated by both men and women. Standing by someone because they are of the same gender or religion or nationality is how you build an army and armies fight wars against other armies. Let’s not turn this Harvie thing into a battle between women and men. Lets put in place step by step a justice system that makes these assaults a serious criminal offense with serious consequences whoever the perpetrator happens to be.
I don’t think its being pitched as a battle between women and men. It’s women standing up and, through verbalising this vast ocean of shared experiences that no one should ever deal with (m or f or other), finally experiencing a sense of solidarity, acknowledgment and support at a mass cultural scale (For once!!!!) Instead of shame and isolation or a negation or trivialising of these experiences or crimes. While “not all men”, it is almost entirely men who commit these crimes and other transgressions that have been the origin of this tornado. And if that’s not you then give yourself a pat on the back, no sarcasm intended, It’s great that you take the position that you do, and thank you. and what would be good now is if all men could do the same, and if those men can also understand that there has to be a massive fucking shitstorm first, because this history doesn’t happen in a vacuum, and it has been going on a long time hey since Lilith maybe, we’re mad as hell, and we’re not going to take it any more.
Its about the victims of crime having a voice and for the extent of this behaviour to be exposed and seen for what it is, not about saying “all men are ****s”.
It’s not a battle between men and women.
It’s a battle between (almost entirely) men in power and people (mostly women but also includes men) who do not have power getting taken advantage of by the system. There have been ‘me toos’ by men, most notably Terry Crews. Men, particularly when young and vulnerable were also at risk in the acting field.
Why are the perpetrators almost entirely men? There could’ve been a woman or 2 who were female Harveys but I haven’t seen a news article about them yet. Please share news article if you have seen this situation happen because it is wrong too!
The woman who owns Thinx underwear has been sued for sexual harrassment… but only against other women.
Second what sphinx is saying below. Turning down the interest of a lesbian has never resulted in me being threatened, physically dominated or coerced, called names or insulted in some other way. Doing the same to men at bars, parties and professional situations have resulted in all of the above.
Thanks for the article! Just threw out my Thinx too! fuck them! She’s apparently an ageist too. ugh!
Ummm..i turned down a lesbian at a bar and she tried to damage the tires of my car in the parking lot. I cold busted her. She was pretty but I’m asexual so not into her or much of anybody. I did it in the most polite way poss not embarrassing her publicly.
People can just be cray sometimes when they feel entitled regardless of man or woman.
Unfortunately, I’ve been sexually harassed, stalked and violently attacked by women also.
I can understand not wanting to anthropomorphise the planets but it’s difficult to have a conversation about the legitimate struggles of being a woman without discussing gender or biology. It’s always been men who have bullied me for refusing advances sexually. Women have not bullied me in this way ever.
So it’s a specific kind of bullying largely by one gender due in part to biology. Of course oppression is everywhere but why can we not define this specific abuse of power and how it made us feel, be we men or women?
There is a great difference in the behaviour of some (5-10%?) men vs most women due due to biology, testosterone etc. which unsocialised is toxic. Men apparently vary more in their behaviour than women due to less of them being needed for reproducing. And biologically women aren’t rewarded for risk taking, aggressive behaviour because it interferes with child rearing, but that’s not so for males apparently who gain more by being assertive and aggressive. Mystic talking about boundaries on the blog generally is important for lots of women as self sacrifice is a common feature of our biology and socialisation, to our detriment.
If well socialised men aren’t standing up for women in these circumstances and indeed aren’t recognising the situation as it occurs, then these issues remain accepted and invisible. And I don’t mean by you personally as you are very perceptive obviously.
But it seems there is an assumption by many men that women are mysteriously trained in understanding the nature and drives of men (they aren’t) and that victims should somehow ‘know’ they were heading for trouble, because it was ‘so obvious’ (something I was told anyway). To my mind that’s why it’s important we have this conversation for all our education and training, for men and women to recognise it isn’t ok.
In war zones bartering sex for food is commonplace and I think this is an extension of that way of thinking, no? Commodification of the body and soul. What is the archetype for this story I am not sure. Sorry for banging on, just my 2 cents.
The “we” I am referring to is all women.
And I understand exactly how you feel. It isn’t fair that your biology should set you apart as “other”..
However, I find it incredibly ironic that you’re using that as an argument in this case where women are voicing that they are tired of being treated in a certain way by virtue of their… Biology/gender.
Shirley Manson nailed it on facebook. She posted about Rose McGowan and a post about how we always talk about how X many women are assaulted and X no of teenage girls are pregnant instead of saying X no of men sexually assaulted women or impregnated teenagers. The perpetrators are not mentioned, it’s like it’s some kind of accident or plague that just happens to women and girls. And the reporting about sexual assault is all about was she wearing skimpy clothes or drunk, ie asking for it, instead of about how can we stop men assaulting women. Then men immediately start bleating about their feelings are hurt and #notallmen are rapists etc. That is not what we are saying AT ALL
I love Shirley Manson. She nailed it.
I’m not in favor of us against them a Battle of the Sexes either. I’m personally just sick of being sexually harassed predominately by men and yes, I’ve been sexually harassed by women also. Ended up in court getting a restraining order. No, I wasn’t dating her either was a rapid fan that would not take no as an answer.She wanted to have a threesome, I said no. A year of death threats and was assaulted attacked by her and her male gay friends.
So, I’m against assholes and creeps of all genders.
rabid fan not rapid.
Sorry ScorpioRising. I’m also against bad behaviour by anyone.
Yes. Haven’t the Hollywood male icons Rolf included been exposed for a couple of years now. Same shit, different stink.
David that read very much as a ‘not all men’ but this is a situation where it really is close to being all men because if men aren’t actively taking a stance to end this then they are complicit in the system that allows abuse to happen. Just not being an abuser isn’t good enough anymore. I see this as an excellent opportunity for healing for both men and women, but it will take the bravery of moving outside life as we know it. I found this piece really interesting (but not conclusive in terms of how to approach the problem) : http://www.google.it/amp/s/norasamaran.com/2016/02/11/the-opposite-of-rape-culture-is-nurturance-culture-2/amp/
It’s not all men or nearly all men but I’m glad you said that it is because it’s that thought process that concerns me deeply. It’s similar to the thought process that allows people to justify genocide. Don’t you think if social media was around in 30s Germany a ‘me too’ campaign would have been very successful in identifying the reason why all Jews including millions of children should be murdered. Oh that Jew who stole my job, that Jew who stole my money, that Jew who raped my daughter etc .. its not just a few of them it’s pretty much all of them, they are all complicit so they all must be brought to justice.
There is absolutely no factual evidence that ‘most men’ or even ‘a large percentage’ of men perpetrate or condone or stand by silently when women are assaulted. If you believe that this is the case based on ? then sorry you are in my eyes just part of the problem.
You’re missing the point.
I’d love to discuss the article I linked with you, but I think you are reacting defensively to my comment so will leave it at that.
David there is overwhelming evidence that men are the majority of perps of sexual harassment and assault. If you’re denying that you’re part of the problem.
Please read it again. I know that the vast majority of assaults are committed by men. My remark was that it was not as Al put it ‘almost all men’ through complicity.
That’s the type of statement that I feel causes many problems in this world.
There are excellent men in the world who do not stand by when they see inequality or persecution, but it’s still a rare man who will be vocal about what to do about inequality (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4997208/Men-respond-MeToo-hashtag-HowIWillChange-message.html) or who will take a pay cut so that their female colleague can be paid equally (https://globalnews.ca/news/3812707/radio-host-takes-pay-cut-so-female-co-host-can-be-paid-as-much-as-he-is/) – I mean this is newsworthy stuff. I’m very very glad that these men are stepping up, but they are not the status quo. I hope they and you change the status quo, but to deny that the status quo exists is counter-productive.
Hmmm. All this exposure of sexual predators always seems to be ‘an open secret’ for years and years before they are called on it. So there’s a lot of complicity and in many cases, such as footballers, it seems the other players and clubs and officials even turn a blind eye to bad behaviour. So there is a lot of enabling going on, and I think it’s basically men doing it. I’m not saying all men, at all, but I think sexual harrassment and DV is colluded with by the majority of men (who are the ones who can call out other men and stop it, unlike most women who don’t have the power to do so) if not actively, by passively looking the other way or not believing it is happening.
I’m not attacking you in any way here, just speaking about my own experience in the world and what I’ve seen and heard.
The majority ? Yeah like all muslims are terrorists ? Like all women wearing short skirts want it ?
Well the majority
Ok let’s agree to disagree. As a woman I can’t know what it’s like being a man and vice versa
I guess you got bored of arguing (can’t say I blame you) – but you were right.
Thanks for sharing this article Alouetta. I found it really insightful.
Yes, thank you Alouetta, this research about attachment and brain formation is fascinating.
Yeah it took me ages to get through but it was worth it. There’s an opportunity here to look at ourselves and our relationships and our history and move to a better place together. Or at least I hope so.
Does Lilith have a placement where she is more comfortable? My own Lilith is in Sag opposite my Gem Sun, sextile my Aqua ascendant and at the start of my 11th house. It’s the only fire in my natal chart.
For me it translates very much as the happy-to-be-the-outsider, independent energy but only as I’ve become older.
I have an 11th house Lilith too! For me it’s in libra but 11th house gives it Uranian/aqua flavor according to mystics ebook. My favorite description was “haute punk” Lilith + Hedy Lamar has the placement…it’s totally make your own destiny outside of paradigm outsider energy. My friend has a sagg Lilith and I’ve observed it as a mouthpiece aspect of the Lilith energy- political, v pro feminism and diversity also into travel
My Lilith is in Scorpio, which I think it’s one of the best ones (or maybe I am confusing it with something else?).
I seem to remember Mystic saying this when Lilith was in Scorp last year.
More than its “Scorpionesqu”e qualities I sense my Lilith side when I do third house things (my third house cusp is in Scorpio) and mostly when I write or talk.
It’s very rare for me to say or write “conventional” things.