Hello Mystic!
I’m a lifetime member and have been following your work for a very long time. Thank you for everything you do!
I’ve got a question about Houses. I believe that your reports use the Placidus system.
But I recently had an Astro reading where she used the Whole House system, unbeknownst to me before I booked the reading.
She was talking about my natal Jupiter being in my 3rd House whereas I’ve always thought it was in my 2nd House.
I find this very disconcerting. I understand that there is a debate amongst astrologers about House systems.
But it feels fundamentally different to me to have my Jupiter in the 2nd rather than the 3rd House, as an example.
I had a look through your blog archives to see if you’d written about this but I couldn’t find anything.
What’s your perspective on House systems? How can I interpret a year ahead reading based on a completely different House system?
I’d love any advice you have. Thank you!
Jodie.
Hi Jodie!
This is a fascinating question and yes all of my Astro-Reports use the Placidus house system.
I personally prefer it and find it the most accurate.
To explain more, the birth chart is essentially a 2D representation or flat map for the time you were born. The Ascendant shows the point that was rising and the Midheaven the highest point that the Sun reached that day – aka Noon.
Those points don’t vary but the rest of the “pie” can be divvied up in various ways, as you’ve seen.
Natal Jupiter in the 3rd is quite unlike Jupiter in the 2nd, yes – my delineations from the Astral DNA report are below for comparison.
More importantly, a transit to your 2nd house will have dramatically different manifestations to one in the 3rd house or any other house.
The Sun, Moon and inner planets zap through with such alacrity that their house position may be less relevant. By the time you get to thinking about it, things have moved on.
But there is more at stake when the planet is going to turn Retrograde – it triples the time spent in one house – and when it comes to anything beyond Mars.
Jupiter and Saturn are worldly influences – the parts of your birth chart that they’re visiting inform your material prospects, financial wellbeing, opportunities, the applicability of your accumulated wisdom versus new knowledge you could acquire, investments and the timing of significant moves.
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are more other-worldly, influencing consciousness, magical you and your psyche.
It’s not that their influence won’t be apparent in everyday life but that whatever transpires, it’s initiated by a metaphysical spark. These outer planets spend years in a house, easily over a decade in the case of Neptune and Pluto.
An outer planet crossing a house cusp (the border between one house and the next) is nearly always expressed as a distinct and profound transformation.
To illustrate the importance of these border-lines, if I was doing a consult with a person who had – say – Pluto crossing into their 10th house in the next year, it would be my primary focus.
There are actually dozens of house systems and while every astrologer uses the one they prefer, it is probably incumbent on them to let you know when you’re booking the consult.
Having said that, I’ve never specified that I use Placidus ahead of a one-on-one consult, mostly because it is the classic ‘default.’ The Whole Sign House system has, however, become more popular in recent years.
Placidus is the stately grand dame of the astro-scene for an array of reasons but I like it because it’s the most astronomically correct.
If you can stand a spot of astro-geekery, it is worthwhile understanding the difference between these two systems.
Placidus house cusps are calculated according to the ‘diurnal (daytime) arc’ – ie: where the Sun is at various points from the Sunrise of that day – and they change depending on your precise birthplace latitude.
This is why you could have – say – a 22° Leo Rising (the ‘cusp’ of the 1st house) but then the 2nd house might start at 7° Virgo. And your 2nd House border would be different if you were born in Ontario compared to – for example – Fiji.
With the Whole House system, your 1st house wouldn’t start at 22° Leo but 0° Leo, although the Ascendant point would be marked as such somewhere in the 1st house. The second house would be 0° Virgo, the third 0° Libra and so on.
Or, if you had 5° degrees of Scorpio Rising, your Ascendant would become 0° Scorpio, the 2nd house would start at 0° Saggo etc.
It’s certainly less complex as each sign/constellation is contained neatly within one of the 12 houses. It also looks prettier and it’s more streamlined, easier to conceptualize and think about.
With Placidus you end up with interesting yet mind-bending scenarios where a house may begin with one sign but be predominantly the next sign along or even have an entire sign in the middle of it – eg: the Midheaven is 28 Taurus and the next house – the 11th – starts with Cancer.
Where is Gemini? Intercepted. How do you interpret this? Well, it’s complicated and trying to work your way through this sort of thing with someone who understandably just wants to know what’s up can be challenging.
But the Placidus complexity reflects celestial reality. I’ve also run enough experiments and weird Mars in Virgo analytics to confirm – myself at least – that it’s the most accurate.
I’d actually prefer the Whole Sign house system to be more accurate. Transit-wise, my 5th House in the Placidus system starts at 13 Gemini, which means Uranus will arrive there in February 2030.
In the Whole Sign House system, Uranus will be deemed to have arrived in my 5th house next July, when Uranus reaches 0 Gemini.
Would I prefer this? Fuq yes. But it ain’t so.
I actually DO use the Whole Sign House system when doing the Weekly and Monthly Horoscopes.* It works in a broad, zoomed-out Sun Sign kind of a way but even then, I always suggest people also read for their Rising Sign as well and it’s only one of the methods I use.
Thoughts?
*The Daily Horoscopes are done from individual birth data – yours, your friends, whomever you add on there and so use Placidus.
Image: Becky Suss
JUPITER IN THE 2ND HOUSE
This is the Jupiter house of exuberance and self-made maverick money people. You’re automatically hyperbolic – big ideas, big spends, big earns, big-budget blow-outs. Jupiter in the 2nd house – the $$ sector – won’t even get out of bed for small ideas. You’re good at inspiring others with your gusto and drive, bad at restricting your outgoings or taking orders. It is the Jupiter of Jay Z: “I’m a hustler man, I sell water to a well.”
Temperamentally, you’re more suited to the high risk/high reward style of investment. Learning, new ideas, and the sense that your product or work is good for people are more motivating than duty. If leaden people or circumstances lower your mind frequency, you lose the lightness that you need to conjure with this rad energy.
From my Astral DNA Report
JUPITER IN THE 3RD HOUSE
In classical astrology, this Jupiter placement guarantees good neighbors and benefits via siblings but it’s most renowned for big-talking, highly persuasive eloquence. Your improvisation skills are practically paranormal. Your ‘winging it’ delivery or results are other people’s five-week preparation programs. Downside: Some people seriously don’t believe a word you say. Loads of actors have 3rd house Jupiters: Watch any Colin Farrell interview for an excellent example of the charm.
You navigate everyday life with a combo of “you’d never believe who I just bumped into” synchronicity moments and automatic amplification. You’re generous and will cheerfully expand someone else’s scope or suggest a genius solution but a certain genre of person actively resents your help. They either find it over the top or nod along with it but deflate the moment you sweep out of their orb. Really, to some, you’re like the circus rolling into town. Resist the urge to try and ‘convert’ others to expansive thinking – you can’t.
From my Astral DNA Report
Haha, Team Placidus as Lux Interior says, is definitely more my pace. However, after my Gem Hub got rattled when I told him he is an earth free zone astrologically, I indulgently checked his Sidereal Chart. The Sidereal Chart made him a human pyramid of Earth Trines, which resonated for him. Now I am confused, Mystic herself says that Sidereal method is more accurate to the starscape. My Sidereal chart is also intriguing, like a more bass version of the Placidus song my chart has been singing, more earthy. I can’t help wondering if I should embrace the Sidereal system as I understand it from a Western point of view, or if this would be disingenuous!? If anyone cares to comment I sure would appreciate some thoughts. I certainly don’t care for Whole House, it just seems..lazy.
The all or nothing my way or the highway whole signs people (and there’s a lot of them) shit me to tears, I use whole signs but all the house systems I’ve used work, including Placidus. The different systems are useful for specific things. Placidus is good tech but for things I’m not interested in very often – I’m having a phase of interest right now, it won’t last though. Whole signs have layers of complexity that a person who is used to modern astro techniques would probably not be applying. I have wondered whether some of the people here who’ve tried them have gone all in and looked at their profections, firdaria, diurnal or nocturnal in a day or night chart etc etc when they say it just doesn’t work for them – so much more going on than modern astro, which is what drew me to it, it’s the opposite of lazy but not as overwhelming as jyotish or chinese/lunar astro. All of the house systems work when they’re employed as complete systems, not a dipping of the toe into one using the theory of another. I’m having a rocking jupiter year right now but it’s totally cock blocked by it being a saturn profection year – if I relied on placidus/modern astro for an interp I’d be wondering WTF was going on and asking for my $ back. But instead I know that all I have to do is wait for the profected year to end. Depending on your natal chart and progressions, whole signs may make more sense as you age too. Your question is interesting but confusing. Disingenuous makes me wonder, are you asking about cultural appropriation?
I agree with Mystic. I also had a similar reading years ago, and although I would have loved to have my Jupiter in Scorpio ♏️ in my 2nd House because I’m all about them coins 💰… I’ve come to realize that my Jupiter in Scorpio is really, and truly, in my first house. No if’s, and’s, but’s about it. 😈 🦂 😈
Love Mystic! ♥️ 🍷 ♥️
Occultations care not for your increments Jodie. Like, show me a more baron period for phenomena as we have had this month ? Last quarter, New moon 1st
I think it’s useful to look at both house delineations, and have been taught that while the Placidus is more true to one’s personal/inner experience, that Whole Sign is more about how the one is viewed from the outside.
If one is looking to see how a transit will affect them, Placidus seems the way to go, or some psychological understanding of self. But maybe if doing more magical work that will have its effects on your public facing persona, the Whole Sign might be worth using.
Makes sense to me, but I like having the extra layers to work with!
It really has come to the front of conversation. Just the other day I had a non-astrologer friend ask about it. (Which is tricky to explain to someone who doesn’t know astro lingo).
Very much appreciate your take on this, as I’ve felt the peer pressure to jump ship to WS. But that takes away my Sun in the 8th cool point status and I could never!!! Team Placidus!
This very question was rattling around in my brain last week. I “used” to subscribe to another Australian astrologer but my Rising sign interpretation was always much more accurate. Then she got rather repetitive and simplified. I love the way you, Mystic, always lead me to educate my self further after a tid-bit, a morsel of super interesting history, fact, idea, notion, truth… keep up the good work (sorry, been writing school reports) x
Hi Mystic, thanks for this explanation. I’d love to hear your take on intercepted charts now, me and my close friends all have them.
Well said! I too would prefer whole signs to be correct. I find them useful for psychological assessment, but for clocking transits I’ve a couple lenses I prefer for accuracy; including Placidus. A hot topic indeed!
I love this article.
I’ve been rambling around between whole signs, and Placidus for years back and forth. And I agree for the same reasons.
Placidus does most of the time appear to be a bit more accurate in my friends, and family members charts, even though for ease of delineation and use, I’d prefer whole signs.
My one hang up so far has been in my Solar Returns, where both types of houses show quite a bit of accuracy for me, but for the most part I think Placidus wins.
My thoughts are about the evolution of Astrology. Maybe the Sumerians used a Whole House System, but Astrology has travelled in time, evolved through different cultures and arrived with more precision for different purposes.
My nodes made a lot more sense when my chart shifted to whole signs, also my chart and sign rulers – it just works. Later I realised that there are other reasons that it could be more accurate representation – progressions is one, I think there is only one planet in my chart that hasn’t progressed out of its original house and my progressed ascendant is the ascendant I would have had natally if I’d been born in the country I live in, so weave a bit of astro cartography theory in there and you get a more nuanced picture of why my whole sign chart makes a lot more sense. I use other house systems for electional and horary simply because that was what I was taught to do, it works and I trust my teacher implicitly. I’ve recently been looking at placidus again after re-reading Mystic’s long range reports and having a natal return consult with Kim Falconer and placidus also works but in different ways.
also think no houses is interesting – egyptian systems and the mansions, there’s so much more than this.
Placidus places Libra Sun in 11th whereas Koch and WH place Sun in my all-too crowded 12th. Transit timing meshes better with Placidus-
I read astrology written by astologers who use the Placidus and by those who use Whole Sign. I find, to generalise, that the Placidus seems to give me insight into my inner world while the WSH readings give me more insight into what outer world things to expect. It seems to me that they’re both valuable and it depends on the astrologer and the subject chart for what might be the most useful at any time.
Yes, this – the emo/inner world comment for placidus especially.
WSH system dramatically changes my chart, and I prefer Placidus for that reason (I’m also Virgo Mars.) It rings the truest of the two for me personally. Natal Jupiter in the 8th is very different from the 9th.
Question: Are you writing this from a location which most resembles (a) a clandestine situation, such as a covert assignment for an intelligence agency, sex work, military deployment etc or (b) a transit lounge, university campus, mountain top retreat?
I’m Placidus all the way too. With my buddy pluto transiting my 12th house and crossing my 24 Cap asc while I was in the hospital with a blood infection, coding 3 times, at that exact moment, my astro friends all agreed that we all know my asc after that….
Wow, I’m so sorry you went through all of those health scares, and I’m glad you are ok. Also, what an interesting and (extreme!) lesson in your astrology.
I have been studying astrology over 30 years. The whole-sign-loving hellenistic, ancient astrologers won me over for a minute but I have found a lot of their assumptions and predictions waaay off base so I’m now a true placidus believer. Maybe I just really liked the idea of being a 9th house sun instead of an 8th. But my life has been undeniably 8th house. Unrelated, but I never gave much attention to the vedic astrologers until recently. I am beginning to realize they know their ish. Maybe it’s their delivery that turns off the Western love and light crowd, but they now have my attention in light of their high accuracy regarding current world events.
I agree they really hit rump on the head, and seem to have world mundane astrology in their wheel house…..
With the way off base whole sign stuff, did you notice whether it was when you were in profected years that were pinging off your birth chart and limiting the potential of positive outcomes? This I find interesting because I’m in what should be an epic Jupiter phase right now but I’m in a saturn profected year and the epic is definitely being curtailed.
I would love to know if it’s better to use Whole Sign when casting charts for people with unknown birth times, if you don’t have enough info or time to play around with rectification. Thoughts?
Does anyone have any info regarding the “Natural House” system as opposed to Placidus? Or is the “Natural House” system the same as the Whole House system?
Placidus : Pisces Ascendant 16 degrees, Venus conjunct Mercury in Gemini, 4th house. Jupiter conjunct Pluto in Leo, 6th house.
Natural House: Aries Ascendant 9 degrees, Venus and Mercury in 3rd house, Jupiter and Pluto in 5th house…
Confused…
i stared at this for ages wondering how your ascendant could change, then I realised it might be the difference between tropical and sidereal. I can’t answer your question but you might find something by looking at that.
Reading a 1940s Astro book and suddenly realised what you may be talking about, there was a bit about turning the wheel to make predictions and it used sidereal time, also ‘natural placements’ for planets. The natural ruler of the 1st house is Mars because Mars rules Aries – 1st sign of the zodiac,
Mars is also natural ruler of the 8th house because it rules Scorpio (unless you use the modern rulership, then it would be Pluto), natural ruler of 5th house is the sun because sun rules Leo, 5th sign of the zodiac and so it goes on. So no, natural houses are not whole sign houses, they are the houses starting with Aries in the 9 o’clock / 1st house position, they are only similar to whole sign houses because both span 30° due to being sign based (each sign has 30°) unlike placidus which is horizon based and variable – as mystic explains in her post. None of these are any more right than another, you’ve just got to pick a lane and stay in it, otherwise it gets weird fast x
I know some astrologers are passionate about Whole House and I’ve only looked into it a bit and haven’t been sure if it would be useful. However, I do use Koch over Placidus because I was born quite far north (Edmonton) and the houses get very wonky in Placidus at that latitude, as in one house will cover 90 degrees and one will have 11 degrees. My life is weird but not that unbalanced (oh wait, what if it is …. 😳). I’d welcome any thoughts on best practices for those of us born above the 53rd parallel.
Apologies for going off-topic but I’m hyper-focussing on this (about Jupiter and Saturn) “the applicability of your accumulated wisdom versus new knowledge you could acquire” I first thought that grammatically it should say “new knowledge” first as wouldn’t “accumulated wisdom” be Saturn? But is Mystic saying that Jupiter represents ‘unearned wisdom’ or the privilege of growing up in a learned household while Saturn is the new knowledge you have to go out and earn? I may be overthinking this.
This is so timely as I’ve recently been looking at my chart and it’s transits, and solar return, through a whole house lens.
My reasons for this are multiple but include; Pluto being in my 1st Placidus since late 2007 and hanging around until Feb 2033!! I’ve a huge 1st and 7th house in Placidus.
Also, my MC/IC axis is 12h and 6h using Whole Sign, and there’s not a huge amount about this online, some folk believe it’s actually impossible… But I’m a Sag Rising and the past couple of years during Scorpio season (my 12h whole) I have actually noticed that I want to retreat and go into hermit mode… In the past having my MC at the start of 10h placidus, I’ve forced myself to be out there at that time of year. This year I haven’t, instead listening to my own hermit longings… and I’ve got loads done on creative projects…
So in summary, I don’t know 😂 but I’m much more open to whole signs now than ever before.
me too I’m placidus all the way. I’m seeing a lot of enthusiasm for whole-house charts online lately, mostly for clarity of reading/neatness reasons (!), but I was raised on placidus and frankly I see them as a bit of an abomination (sorry, I’m looking for a word that is less harsh but can’t find one atm). in any case, “whatever works”. according to my teacher, the koch house system might work for people born at extreme latitudes, and when I did a chart for a friend who was born in finland I found that the koch chart was definitely more reflective of my friend’s personality than the placidus chart. I had my chart done by an astrologer who only uses koch and the differences in the positions of some of the planets in my chart made A LOT of sense though, and this really threw me off… however, I will continue using placidus unless I get a client such as my half-finnish friend.
*whole-sign house obvs, not whole-house
Hi Mystic! This is probably the most witty explanation of house systems! I find that whole house systems had subtle influences, like a pebble’s ripple effects on a pond when it gets tossed in. The energy behind transits using the Placidus house is like a boulder being dropped in it and getting wake, and there’s usually a delay in its effect for me but I’ve figuratively gotten splashed by those! Thanks for helping me conclude that Placidus is better for major transits and the whole house is for day-by day… mystery solved!
good explanation , merci
I was raised on Placidus, but after experiencing the vandal that is Pluto wreak financial havoc on me at 29′ Cap in my *whole sign* 2nd house… Ugh. Let’s just say I’m ready for the Aquarius ingress this week.
Hmm, I can relate.
Interesting you should bring this up. I had the same kinda thing happen to me that I officially lost a very long term job right when Saturn hit my whole sign 10th cusp in Aquarius, so those are the things that make me check out whole signs every once in a while.
Team Placidus all the way