Is Hating Bureaucracy A Key Sagittarius Trait?

Filed in Sagittarius

Quote from C.S. Lewis biography to illustrate Sagittarius trait

 

Extreme aversion to bureaucracy is a Sagittarius trait. C.S. Lewis, the author of the Narnia Chronicles, was Sun, Uranus, Venus, Saturn and Mercury in Sagittarius. That much vibe in one sign is something else; it’s called a stellium. It amplifies the zodiac sign characteristics ten-fold.

None of the Mutable signs (Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, and Pisces) are crash hot with bureaucratic requirements. Virgo will at least be able to find some pleasure in critiquing the layout of the form and falling upon any errors like an eagle spying a hapless field mouse.

Gemini can see any form as a chance to lay some false scent trails. Pisces subverts the process without intending to. But Sagittarius sees even a post office form as a direct assault to their autonomy. Deep in their psyche, they’re troubadours or wandering poets, navigating by the stars. People recognize them by their body art or command of some arcane lingo. Their identity is between them and their deities.

Maybe this Sagittarius trait is not so much about the dislike of forms. Instead, it’s the desire for open plains and simplicity, a time that perhaps never was but which always will be. At least, for Sagittarius.

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libraquarianMM Member
libraquarian

I feel this, Sag is my MC sign. At work, I absolutely cannot tolerate outmoded processes and people who do things a certain way just because that’s the way they’ve been done since the paleolithic era.

I also get very flighty. Currently working on a strategy to get out of my 9-5 in an office with no windows and endless amounts of repetitive paperwork.

PiMM Member
Pi

Hmm. I wonder if in this case, the keywords are “police state” and “thoroughly nasty business concern”.. So, bureau meaning desk… Desk-ocracy… Once they start to become self sustaining entities, closed systems that have lost sight of their original purposes, that’s where the problems start innit. And maybe that’s the biggest ache for a sadge. An organisation that exists in a self created vacuum, with no big picture, no heat, no vibrant conflict, no direction, groaning under the weight of a hierarchy more concerned with preserving itself than meeting the needs of the people it was (ideally) intended to serve.… Read more »

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

Saggi FIL with Sun-Merc-Venus kowtows to bureaucracy as a necessary evil. What he hates more is social conventions of any kind. He wore a filthy jacket and jeans to our wedding as he didn’t feel the need to spend on more or even clean the ones he had. I think because he thinks people aren’t important as systems are, bureaucracies serve more people than him dressing up ever could. He has Rising Taurus, Moon in Virgo and Mars in Scorpio. More importantly he has Uranus conjunct Saturn opposite his Saggi stellium. Not sure how to interpret that except to note… Read more »

skarabMM Member
skarab

Hi sphinx. That Sat-Uranus opposition to the stellium kinda fits the description – also the dress “sense”, lol. He sounds a lot like my father re bureaucracy & social conventions – though mine will make some effort if he absolutely must go to a wedding or funeral – he is a Leo after all. He too has Mars in Scorpio (conjunct Jupiter for extra intensity & opp Uranus for spontaneous eruptions of violence), a Taurus Moon & Sagg Rising. He also values systems & ideologies over people. Maybe they were also marked by the era in which they grew up… Read more »

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

Hi Skarab! Yes, that generation are heavily idealogical at the expense of the individual. My Pluto in Leo Mother also think her individual spiritual gold is in the afterlife or underworld, while she is here, she serves the system. I understand the need to safeguard society and to behave responsibly to ensure it functions, but at the level of the family that focus produces a daily sense of betrayal.. Yes my FIL is prone to spontaneous eruptions, it was almost a given considering his own upbringing and struggles. Your father’s chart is interesting (as is my FIL’s) I would have… Read more »

Kelly rose
Kelly rose

Last night I was just researching ‘ bureaucracy and it’s effect on nonprofit organization’. Moon, Uranus and Saturn in Sagittarius. I quite literally answer to none but myself and my deities (okay maybe the occasional automated phone service and auto mechanic but not much else !)

Stella PolarisMM Member
Stella Polaris

Bureaucracy for bureaucracy’s sake is a no for this Gem Sun, Pisces Moon, Aqua rising.
But I loathe more the puppetmaster behind the scenes pulling the strings, then doing the paperwork to make it all seem legitimate.

whelmness
whelmness

Double Pisces, Aqua rising! I feel the same. Few things hurt my heart more than watching good people carry out dirty work. Control, complacency, victimhood … devil for sure.

AleMM Member
Ale

Yes, yes, yes. Stellium Sagg, and this is so true. I’ve put this trait to good use—at each place i’ve worked, i’ve streamlined their libraries (libraries and digital), changed the way they plan corporate travel so that it runs smoother, and simply did away with paper altogether in my last office. Bureaucracy (and most things associated with it) is complete suckiness.

GemyogiMM Member
Gemyogi

I’d much rather do things ‘unofficially’ e.g. pay cash, barter, make deals without paperwork. I think its a combo of Aries rising impatience and Gem low boredom threshold

PegasusMM Member
Pegasus

So many soul-spirit compadres in this thread.What joy to find the like-minded.A million kisses.

PegasusMM Member
Pegasus

Filling forms is intrusive not to mention dead boring.Add to the list ‘dealing with any government department’ to the point of ignoring them completely’. Doing this ensures they don’t actually exist! Want a direct line to head honcho or no one. Thinking takes energy, a certain type of energy that doesn’t seem apparent in bureaucratic training. Gave up asking questions as shivered at a reply of ‘i don’t know’ instead of ‘i’ll find out’. They should have a sign in offices that says ‘do not disturb me whilst i’m disturbed’. Enough of my rant on rules and regulations, guess that’s… Read more »

BLISS WITCHMM Member
BLISS WITCH

Yeah. 5 planets in Sag and I love to subvert bureaucracy. Take glee in conquering not being conquered by it tho.

Oddly enough have decided to go into city planning. Want to build the cities of the future. Will be a bureaucrat, but a subversive one.

Jokerman
Jokerman

You just summed up Dylan (Sagg Asc & Mutable Grand Cross) in this quote

“Deep in their psyche, they’re troubadours or wandering poets, navigating by the stars. People recognize them by their body [ed: of] art or command of some arcane lingo. Their identity is between them and their deities”

He has been non-stop touring since 1988!

PegasusMM Member
Pegasus

Sagg rising. THAT explains his never ending movement.

annafrasMM Member
annafras

Sag Moon, I confirm. Honestly it’s hard to even talk about. The movie Brazil is my personal vision of hell.

annafrasMM Member
annafras

Afform

SagiquariusMM Member
Sagiquarius

um, yes. i am sag sun, mars, merc, mars, neptune, and MC. pisces moon. aqua rising. i can barely will myself to fill and mail in a rebate form for bed bath and beyond (let alone taxes, parking permits, intake forms at a doctor’s office). but after applying for a job with foreign service, i instead ended up in a “coveted” permanent job with the federal government in the most middleman, paper-pushy, tick-boxy department of all-time (procurement, but with an 8-lettered acronym title). it was housed in a giant concrete complex, one of four, with a depressing mall in the… Read more »

PegasusMM Member
Pegasus

Whatta a Saggo! Being enclosed manifests physically, stops you breathing freely. Bet you even dislike a roof over your head. Why O why didn’t you not become a pilot?
A now you see me now you don’t career?

ElectroMM Member
Electro

Good lord. These types of working conditions are part of the reason why I refuse to buy stuff from Amazon. Filling boxes ad nauseam.

PiMM Member
Pi

I really love your method of choosing a therapist. Voice is important.

amazonalisonMM Member
amazonalison

Ugh…this Super-Sag can confirm that we hate it. Jupiter/Uranus/Neptune/South Node/ ASC/Part of Fortune all there, and nothing makes me happier than when it crumbles. I’m gleeful like a child, and fight hard against it when I have to engage.

emgMM Member
emg

Errrr maybe then it’s my galactic centre MC but I loath despise and will flatly refuse to form fill. It’s an assault and insult to my individual authority and frankly I’m not much into society either. This Pluto Capricorn thing has been glorious for me to watch as politicians and large institutes are shown up and exposed and it gave me the absolute conviction to walk away from my profession after 31 years I’m enjoying my saggi side .

AntaresRisingMM Member
AntaresRising

Yes I have Sag on the midheaven too.

I remember once getting off the bus after work and it was dusk. Then realising I had missed the whole day of sunshine being indoors and instantly being crushed by the feeling of depression. Orwellian Dystopian depression.

Growing up in Melbourne and seeing the greedy 80’s. Thinking this was the dream. Totally sold down the river.

“But I was older then, I’m younger than that now”. Bob Dylan.

I love him even more now knowing he has a lot of Sag.

skarabMM Member
skarab

Bureaucracy is a necessary evil that i deal with because i want to avoid problems, but the word “hate” does not even cover how i feel about it. (Moon & Sun in 9H trine Jupe 1st H – and Saggo progressed Asc)
Ironically, it’s precisely because of such Sagg influence in my chart that i travel & work in different countries & this in turn forces me to deal with bureaucracy of several different places. Unfortunately, In some countries bureaucracy has become an art form of making the possible impossible.
I daydream constantly of living in a hunter-gatherer society.

PegasusMM Member
Pegasus

Travel forms are the only acceptable ones 🙂 if signed reluctantly. We need out our jet to land in covert ports.

skarabMM Member
skarab

CRAVE covert ports!

emg
emg

I currently live in one and flit from port to hidden anchorage.

skarabMM Member
skarab

Just turned a slight shade of green 🙂
I’m tethered here in a big overt port for a few more weeks & then it’s …. actually, i don’t wanna jinx it!

pearlMM Member
pearl

Oh yes. Yep. Yeh. Definitely. Just spent 11+ hours in hospital where they fluffed and ticked boxes then admitted me for no discernible reason but to let a specialist visit me … to get their billing to the medicare system. I know how this works-many years working there myself..I got super impatient with the bullshit aspect and self discharged.The low tolerance for extraneous, time wasting admin. my kyrptonite!

emg
emg

I left… the whole damn profession !

IncenseMM Member
Incense

I feel this same sort of way, but all I’ve got in Sag is my Mars. Maybe that’s enough.

ElectroMM Member
Electro

I would say it’s plenty!

LaFemmaMM Member
LaFemma

My Gemini-rising, Sag (sun, mercury, NN all conjunct) mom loves to have fun with forms and mess with people, for camp she would put things like “foods that are blue” under “allergies”, applied for (and received) credit cards with our pet’s names, things like that happened a lot. Anything that is a “must” gets the finger from her.

flashfireMM Member
flashfire

This is fab! I so relate. Your mom is my kinda people (literally given we have very similar Astro signatures)

PlutoMoonMM Member
PlutoMoon

<3 Don't fence me in. Sag rising.

CharleyMM Member
Charley

Yes totally hateful, Moon-Mars-Nep Sag conjunction in the 9th house. Deffo feel this in a big way but on the flip side I’ll always do the things that have to be done and by the book because I have an even bigger fear/allergy of the idea of getting into trouble or being noticed too much by authorities because I value my absolute freedom more than anything else, so I keep it by flying under the radar where possible.

AntaresRisingMM Member
AntaresRising

Off topic: Just watched the movie Whiplash.

A combination of very hard Saturn, Pluto and finally transcendence with Shamanic Neptune.

I found this movie healing. There I was having a pity party with the actor and the abuse then I was mining the depths with Pluto. Then I rose again and was thanking Pluto and Saturn for the lessons.

Flying like a bird.

emgMM Member
emg

I LOVE that film Sums up life if you ask me

emgMM Member
emg

And I just love the psycho deranged teacher. He’s a ‘Pluto’ send for the pupil If it weren’t for him mediocrity would be the drummer’s end

AntaresRisingMM Member
AntaresRising

The movie was brilliant.

It had it questioning my sanity when I was agreeing with the teachers ideas.

Some people have an imbuilt mechanism to push themselves hard, some need to be pushed, and some get crushed with the weight of being pushed.

And some don’t like being told what to do.

flashfireMM Member
flashfire

Yes, yes and yes. Mega yes. I’m ultra mutable… Sag Sun+Mercury, Gem Rising, Pisces Moon + Lilith with a significant allotment of Virgo placements. I can’t stand bureaucracy…. all that obfuscation and fluorescent lighting and all those tidy little boxes no one actually fits into. There’s just no scope for imagination. It just makes me itch with unease to the point where I wanna climb out of my skin. The Virgo placements do secretly delight in the abundance of office supplies however. P.S. I fantasize endlessly about the being a wandering poet navigating by the stars. Or atop an enormous… Read more »

ElectroMM Member
Electro

So much yes, I frequently fantasize about living in a modern/simple living mash-up where I don’t have to do paperwork or drive a car and I have ample amounts of time to wander around. But since I can’t, I go for efficiency in completing bureaucratic matters (Saturn and Mercury 10th house) and then pretend they don’t exist (Moon Neptune conjunct in Sag).

Debbi
Debbi

Yes, Sag rising here, forms are way too tedious. I actually would love to transcend words altogether!

Jokerman
Jokerman

Whatever the case we can be thankful for Bureaucrats for if they never existed Monty Python’s career would never have taken off.

PlutoMoonMM Member
PlutoMoon

And now for something completely different…

JacquiMM Member
Jacqui

I work with a Go go Gemini who repeatly demands if you want something from her, find her and tell/ask her directly, no emails however sweetly written will do, ever. Torture for me

Libra9MM Member
Libra9

Libra

lindapetersMM Member
lindapeters

Sag and Pisces never want anything written down. They’re free style. Let’s hope they grant the same freedom to others before they launch into preach mode…or worse 🙂

baristagemMM Member
baristagem

I can see how bureaucracy would represent the gatekeeper to our free spirited & wandering Sagg friends.

Are Virgos & Capricorns responsible for this ‘Admin’? 😉 😉

The only other sign I know that loathes bureaucracy is Aquarius. I know a few of them who share this trait & trust me when you’re sitting at a bar between two of them discussing this topic you begin to understand how deep their dislike is. (btw don’t ask them to fill out an online form…)

Jokerman
Jokerman

Being a Merc cj Uran has got me into trouble with bureaucrats, and their stupid forms, manifold times.

In teaching it seemed to me that being a form-filler was a greater skill, to possess, than making a connection with some kid whose dad is an abusive drunk.

SaggoMM Member
Saggo

Massive pet hate. For me it’s because bureaucracy slows down action. Let’s just do it….for f sake….shoot the fricken arrow!!! By the time someone’s agreed to it, I’ve moved on.