Is Hating Bureaucracy A Key Sagittarius Trait?

Quote from C.S. Lewis biography to illustrate Sagittarius trait

 

Extreme aversion to bureaucracy is a Sagittarius trait. C.S. Lewis, the author of the Narnia Chronicles, was Sun, Uranus, Venus, Saturn and Mercury in Sagittarius. That much vibe in one sign is something else; it’s called a stellium. It amplifies the zodiac sign characteristics ten-fold.

None of the Mutable signs (Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, and Pisces) are crash hot with bureaucratic requirements. Virgo will at least be able to find some pleasure in critiquing the layout of the form and falling upon any errors like an eagle spying a hapless field mouse.

Gemini can see any form as a chance to lay some false scent trails. Pisces subverts the process without intending to. But Sagittarius sees even a post office form as a direct assault to their autonomy. Deep in their psyche, they’re troubadours or wandering poets, navigating by the stars. People recognize them by their body art or command of some arcane lingo. Their identity is between them and their deities.

Maybe this Sagittarius trait is not so much about the dislike of forms. Instead, it’s the desire for open plains and simplicity, a time that perhaps never was but which always will be. At least, for Sagittarius.

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libraquarian
MM Member
libraquarian
May 11, 2019 12:55 am

I feel this, Sag is my MC sign. At work, I absolutely cannot tolerate outmoded processes and people who do things a certain way just because that’s the way they’ve been done since the paleolithic era.

I also get very flighty. Currently working on a strategy to get out of my 9-5 in an office with no windows and endless amounts of repetitive paperwork.

Sam
Sam
May 11, 2019 12:53 am

Hmm. I wonder if in this case, the keywords are “police state” and “thoroughly nasty business concern”.. So, bureau meaning desk… Desk-ocracy… Once they start to become self sustaining entities, closed systems that have lost sight of their original purposes, that’s where the problems start innit. And maybe that’s the biggest ache for a sadge. An organisation that exists in a self created vacuum, with no big picture, no heat, no vibrant conflict, no direction, groaning under the weight of a hierarchy more concerned with preserving itself than meeting the needs of the people it was (ideally) intended to serve.… Read more »

sphinx
MM Member
sphinx
May 9, 2019 8:39 pm

Saggi FIL with Sun-Merc-Venus kowtows to bureaucracy as a necessary evil. What he hates more is social conventions of any kind. He wore a filthy jacket and jeans to our wedding as he didn’t feel the need to spend on more or even clean the ones he had. I think because he thinks people aren’t important as systems are, bureaucracies serve more people than him dressing up ever could. He has Rising Taurus, Moon in Virgo and Mars in Scorpio. More importantly he has Uranus conjunct Saturn opposite his Saggi stellium. Not sure how to interpret that except to note… Read more »

Skarab
MM Member
Skarab
May 10, 2019 4:06 am
Reply to  sphinx

Hi sphinx. That Sat-Uranus opposition to the stellium kinda fits the description – also the dress “sense”, lol. He sounds a lot like my father re bureaucracy & social conventions – though mine will make some effort if he absolutely must go to a wedding or funeral – he is a Leo after all. He too has Mars in Scorpio (conjunct Jupiter for extra intensity & opp Uranus for spontaneous eruptions of violence), a Taurus Moon & Sagg Rising. He also values systems & ideologies over people. Maybe they were also marked by the era in which they grew up… Read more »

sphinx
MM Member
sphinx
May 10, 2019 10:22 am
Reply to  Skarab

Hi Skarab! Yes, that generation are heavily idealogical at the expense of the individual. My Pluto in Leo Mother also think her individual spiritual gold is in the afterlife or underworld, while she is here, she serves the system. I understand the need to safeguard society and to behave responsibly to ensure it functions, but at the level of the family that focus produces a daily sense of betrayal.. Yes my FIL is prone to spontaneous eruptions, it was almost a given considering his own upbringing and struggles. Your father’s chart is interesting (as is my FIL’s) I would have… Read more »

Kelly rose
Kelly rose
May 9, 2019 5:37 pm

Last night I was just researching ‘ bureaucracy and it’s effect on nonprofit organization’. Moon, Uranus and Saturn in Sagittarius. I quite literally answer to none but myself and my deities (okay maybe the occasional automated phone service and auto mechanic but not much else !)

Stella Polaris
MM Member
Stella Polaris
May 9, 2019 3:42 pm

Bureaucracy for bureaucracy’s sake is a no for this Gem Sun, Pisces Moon, Aqua rising.
But I loathe more the puppetmaster behind the scenes pulling the strings, then doing the paperwork to make it all seem legitimate.

whelmness
whelmness
May 10, 2019 4:59 am
Reply to  Stella Polaris

Double Pisces, Aqua rising! I feel the same. Few things hurt my heart more than watching good people carry out dirty work. Control, complacency, victimhood … devil for sure.

Ale
MM Member
Ale
May 9, 2019 3:26 pm

Yes, yes, yes. Stellium Sagg, and this is so true. I’ve put this trait to good use—at each place i’ve worked, i’ve streamlined their libraries (libraries and digital), changed the way they plan corporate travel so that it runs smoother, and simply did away with paper altogether in my last office. Bureaucracy (and most things associated with it) is complete suckiness.

Gemyogi
MM Member
Gemyogi
May 9, 2019 9:00 am

I’d much rather do things ‘unofficially’ e.g. pay cash, barter, make deals without paperwork. I think its a combo of Aries rising impatience and Gem low boredom threshold

Pegasus
Pegasus
May 9, 2019 8:38 am

So many soul-spirit compadres in this thread.What joy to find the like-minded.A million kisses.

Pegasus
Pegasus
May 9, 2019 8:27 am

Filling forms is intrusive not to mention dead boring.Add to the list ‘dealing with any government department’ to the point of ignoring them completely’. Doing this ensures they don’t actually exist! Want a direct line to head honcho or no one. Thinking takes energy, a certain type of energy that doesn’t seem apparent in bureaucratic training. Gave up asking questions as shivered at a reply of ‘i don’t know’ instead of ‘i’ll find out’. They should have a sign in offices that says ‘do not disturb me whilst i’m disturbed’. Enough of my rant on rules and regulations, guess that’s… Read more »

BLISS WITCH
MM Member
BLISS WITCH
May 9, 2019 8:16 am

Yeah. 5 planets in Sag and I love to subvert bureaucracy. Take glee in conquering not being conquered by it tho.

Oddly enough have decided to go into city planning. Want to build the cities of the future. Will be a bureaucrat, but a subversive one.

Jokerman
Jokerman
May 9, 2019 8:02 am

You just summed up Dylan (Sagg Asc & Mutable Grand Cross) in this quote

“Deep in their psyche, they’re troubadours or wandering poets, navigating by the stars. People recognize them by their body [ed: of] art or command of some arcane lingo. Their identity is between them and their deities”

He has been non-stop touring since 1988!

Pegasus
Pegasus
May 9, 2019 8:28 am
Reply to  Jokerman

Sagg rising. THAT explains his never ending movement.

annafras
MM Member
annafras
May 9, 2019 7:43 am

Sag Moon, I confirm. Honestly it’s hard to even talk about. The movie Brazil is my personal vision of hell.

annafras
MM Member
annafras
May 9, 2019 7:42 am

Afform

Sagiquarius
MM Member
Sagiquarius
May 9, 2019 6:58 am

um, yes. i am sag sun, mars, merc, mars, neptune, and MC. pisces moon. aqua rising. i can barely will myself to fill and mail in a rebate form for bed bath and beyond (let alone taxes, parking permits, intake forms at a doctor’s office). but after applying for a job with foreign service, i instead ended up in a “coveted” permanent job with the federal government in the most middleman, paper-pushy, tick-boxy department of all-time (procurement, but with an 8-lettered acronym title). it was housed in a giant concrete complex, one of four, with a depressing mall in the… Read more »

Pegasus
Pegasus
May 9, 2019 8:33 am
Reply to  Sagiquarius

Whatta a Saggo! Being enclosed manifests physically, stops you breathing freely. Bet you even dislike a roof over your head. Why O why didn’t you not become a pilot?
A now you see me now you don’t career?

Electro
MM Member
Electro
May 9, 2019 8:36 am
Reply to  Sagiquarius

Good lord. These types of working conditions are part of the reason why I refuse to buy stuff from Amazon. Filling boxes ad nauseam.

Sam
Sam
May 11, 2019 12:25 am
Reply to  Sagiquarius

I really love your method of choosing a therapist. Voice is important.

amazonalison
MM Member
amazonalison
May 9, 2019 3:21 am

Ugh…this Super-Sag can confirm that we hate it. Jupiter/Uranus/Neptune/South Node/ ASC/Part of Fortune all there, and nothing makes me happier than when it crumbles. I’m gleeful like a child, and fight hard against it when I have to engage.

emg
MM Member
emg
May 9, 2019 2:27 am

Errrr maybe then it’s my galactic centre MC but I loath despise and will flatly refuse to form fill. It’s an assault and insult to my individual authority and frankly I’m not much into society either. This Pluto Capricorn thing has been glorious for me to watch as politicians and large institutes are shown up and exposed and it gave me the absolute conviction to walk away from my profession after 31 years I’m enjoying my saggi side .

Wish Upon a Star
MM Member
Wish Upon a Star
May 9, 2019 2:39 pm
Reply to  emg

Yes I have Sag on the midheaven too.

I remember once getting off the bus after work and it was dusk. Then realising I had missed the whole day of sunshine being indoors and instantly being crushed by the feeling of depression. Orwellian Dystopian depression.

Growing up in Melbourne and seeing the greedy 80’s. Thinking this was the dream. Totally sold down the river.

“But I was older then, I’m younger than that now”. Bob Dylan.

I love him even more now knowing he has a lot of Sag.

Skarab
MM Member
Skarab
May 9, 2019 2:11 am

Bureaucracy is a necessary evil that i deal with because i want to avoid problems, but the word “hate” does not even cover how i feel about it. (Moon & Sun in 9H trine Jupe 1st H – and Saggo progressed Asc)
Ironically, it’s precisely because of such Sagg influence in my chart that i travel & work in different countries & this in turn forces me to deal with bureaucracy of several different places. Unfortunately, In some countries bureaucracy has become an art form of making the possible impossible.
I daydream constantly of living in a hunter-gatherer society.

Pegasus
Pegasus
May 9, 2019 8:36 am
Reply to  Skarab

Travel forms are the only acceptable ones 🙂 if signed reluctantly. We need out our jet to land in covert ports.

Skarab
MM Member
Skarab
May 10, 2019 1:46 am
Reply to  Pegasus

CRAVE covert ports!

emg
emg
May 11, 2019 1:02 am
Reply to  Skarab

I currently live in one and flit from port to hidden anchorage.

Skarab
MM Member
Skarab
May 11, 2019 6:37 pm
Reply to  emg

Just turned a slight shade of green 🙂
I’m tethered here in a big overt port for a few more weeks & then it’s …. actually, i don’t wanna jinx it!

pearl
MM Member
pearl
May 9, 2019 1:07 am

Oh yes. Yep. Yeh. Definitely. Just spent 11+ hours in hospital where they fluffed and ticked boxes then admitted me for no discernible reason but to let a specialist visit me … to get their billing to the medicare system. I know how this works-many years working there myself..I got super impatient with the bullshit aspect and self discharged.The low tolerance for extraneous, time wasting admin. my kyrptonite!

emg
emg
May 11, 2019 1:03 am
Reply to  pearl

I left… the whole damn profession !

Incense
MM Member
Incense
May 9, 2019 12:34 am

I feel this same sort of way, but all I’ve got in Sag is my Mars. Maybe that’s enough.

Electro
MM Member
Electro
May 9, 2019 8:31 am
Reply to  Incense

I would say it’s plenty!

LaFemma
MM Member
LaFemma
May 9, 2019 12:24 am

My Gemini-rising, Sag (sun, mercury, NN all conjunct) mom loves to have fun with forms and mess with people, for camp she would put things like “foods that are blue” under “allergies”, applied for (and received) credit cards with our pet’s names, things like that happened a lot. Anything that is a “must” gets the finger from her.

flashfire
MM Member
flashfire
May 9, 2019 11:20 pm
Reply to  LaFemma

This is fab! I so relate. Your mom is my kinda people (literally given we have very similar Astro signatures)

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon
May 8, 2019 11:39 pm

<3 Don't fence me in. Sag rising.

Charley
Charley
May 8, 2019 11:17 pm

Yes totally hateful, Moon-Mars-Nep Sag conjunction in the 9th house. Deffo feel this in a big way but on the flip side I’ll always do the things that have to be done and by the book because I have an even bigger fear/allergy of the idea of getting into trouble or being noticed too much by authorities because I value my absolute freedom more than anything else, so I keep it by flying under the radar where possible.

Wish Upon a Star
MM Member
Wish Upon a Star
May 8, 2019 10:39 pm

Off topic: Just watched the movie Whiplash.

A combination of very hard Saturn, Pluto and finally transcendence with Shamanic Neptune.

I found this movie healing. There I was having a pity party with the actor and the abuse then I was mining the depths with Pluto. Then I rose again and was thanking Pluto and Saturn for the lessons.

Flying like a bird.

emg
MM Member
emg
May 9, 2019 3:33 am

I LOVE that film Sums up life if you ask me

emg
MM Member
emg
May 9, 2019 3:35 am
Reply to  emg

And I just love the psycho deranged teacher. He’s a ‘Pluto’ send for the pupil If it weren’t for him mediocrity would be the drummer’s end

Wish Upon a Star
MM Member
Wish Upon a Star
May 9, 2019 2:50 pm
Reply to  emg

The movie was brilliant.

It had it questioning my sanity when I was agreeing with the teachers ideas.

Some people have an imbuilt mechanism to push themselves hard, some need to be pushed, and some get crushed with the weight of being pushed.

And some don’t like being told what to do.

flashfire
MM Member
flashfire
May 8, 2019 10:25 pm

Yes, yes and yes. Mega yes. I’m ultra mutable… Sag Sun+Mercury, Gem Rising, Pisces Moon + Lilith with a significant allotment of Virgo placements. I can’t stand bureaucracy…. all that obfuscation and fluorescent lighting and all those tidy little boxes no one actually fits into. There’s just no scope for imagination. It just makes me itch with unease to the point where I wanna climb out of my skin. The Virgo placements do secretly delight in the abundance of office supplies however. P.S. I fantasize endlessly about the being a wandering poet navigating by the stars. Or atop an enormous… Read more »

Electro
MM Member
Electro
May 8, 2019 7:57 pm

So much yes, I frequently fantasize about living in a modern/simple living mash-up where I don’t have to do paperwork or drive a car and I have ample amounts of time to wander around. But since I can’t, I go for efficiency in completing bureaucratic matters (Saturn and Mercury 10th house) and then pretend they don’t exist (Moon Neptune conjunct in Sag).

Debbi
Debbi
May 8, 2019 7:24 pm

Yes, Sag rising here, forms are way too tedious. I actually would love to transcend words altogether!

Jokerman
Jokerman
May 8, 2019 7:15 pm

Whatever the case we can be thankful for Bureaucrats for if they never existed Monty Python’s career would never have taken off.

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon
May 8, 2019 11:40 pm
Reply to  Jokerman

And now for something completely different…

Jacqui
MM Member
Jacqui
May 8, 2019 7:01 pm

I work with a Go go Gemini who repeatly demands if you want something from her, find her and tell/ask her directly, no emails however sweetly written will do, ever. Torture for me

Libra9
MM Member
Libra9
May 8, 2019 6:35 pm

Libra

Lucia
MM Member
Lucia
May 8, 2019 6:34 pm

Sag and Pisces never want anything written down. They’re free style. Let’s hope they grant the same freedom to others before they launch into preach mode…or worse 🙂

baristagem
MM Member
baristagem
May 8, 2019 6:22 pm

I can see how bureaucracy would represent the gatekeeper to our free spirited & wandering Sagg friends.

Are Virgos & Capricorns responsible for this ‘Admin’? 😉 😉

The only other sign I know that loathes bureaucracy is Aquarius. I know a few of them who share this trait & trust me when you’re sitting at a bar between two of them discussing this topic you begin to understand how deep their dislike is. (btw don’t ask them to fill out an online form…)

Jokerman
Jokerman
May 8, 2019 7:32 pm
Reply to  baristagem

Being a Merc cj Uran has got me into trouble with bureaucrats, and their stupid forms, manifold times.

In teaching it seemed to me that being a form-filler was a greater skill, to possess, than making a connection with some kid whose dad is an abusive drunk.

Saggo
MM Member
Saggo
May 8, 2019 5:31 pm

Massive pet hate. For me it’s because bureaucracy slows down action. Let’s just do it….for f sake….shoot the fricken arrow!!! By the time someone’s agreed to it, I’ve moved on.

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