Narcissus & Echo In Synastry

The tale of Narcissus and Echo is not a love story. She was so muted by unrequited adoration for a raging egomaniac that she lost her voice. She could only reverberate that of others, hence the name: Echo.

He had the hots for himself so badly that he was incapable of anything resembling an intimate human relationship. He literally dies gazing in awe at his reflection, shimmering back at him from the pool. These days narcissus refers to a pretty orange flower and a psychological complex.

The contemporary narcissistic personality is well-documented and evidently makes up about 6% of the adult population. My theory is that they equal across the genders. But that patriarchal society supports the male narcissist more than the female version. A male narcissist could become entrenched with age whereas a female narcissist would need significant erotic currency to “get away” with it.

Even so, the conjunction of asteroids Narcissus and Echo is listed in the 88 Soulmating Links – why? Well, a soulmate link attests to a significant bond between people that’s tangible, immediately present between them and which feels crazily familiar. It often makes no sense in conventional relationship metrics but the ‘hook’ is that the dynamic activates your soul.

However, a karmic connection doesn’t necessarily mean “you must be together in this lifetime” and to be absolutely clear: no sense of fate or chemistry justifies or ‘explains’ poor behaviour or anything on the abuse spectrum. Even if it did explain it, maybe the karma-drama is that this time, you get away early. Or that the real love affair going on is that the other person stirs something within you that needed to be awoken.

This member email illustrates another aspect of the Echo-Narcisssus dynamic.

Dear Mystic,

Years ago, looking at the chart of a dear friend and her ex-girlfriend with whom she had an intense, co-dependent relationship I had the idea of putting asteroids Narcissus (37117) and Echo (60) in the extended chart selection on astro.com and looking at their synastry chart.

It blew my mind. Each woman had her Narcissus conjunct the other’s Echo. I suppose it just didn’t occur to me to check my placements at the time. I was so busy being astounded as I often am by the intense appropriateness of astrology.

So I spent the last weekend rereading emails I sent 10-12 years ago, comparing them to a recklessly current love zombie fixation. Somehow reading and integrating these emails (so embarrassing!) was a bit of a love zombie antidote and I thought to look up Narcissus and Echo in my chart. Lo and behold I have Narcissus rising at 22 degrees, my rising sign is at 21 Libra. Echo is on my IC.

When I look at this man whom I’ve been compulsively and foolishly writing to since eclipse season in January (like staring into my very own mirror pond, I love writing to him about my life)- his Echo is precisely conjunct my Ascendant/Narcissus. And when I look to my husband’s chart (because, yes, I am happily married and this is some weird seven-year itch- I had blamed Uranus hanging out in my 7th house), he also has Echo on my Narcissus.

So if our Ascendants are the mask we show to the world and mine is conjunct Narcissus does that mean I come across as entirely self-involved? I’ve recently been dabbling in what the oracle calls “healthy vanity” and I’ve no compulsion to stop. I’ve been eating super clean, doing yoga, swimming in the river every day. I recently got a great haircut (the first amazing haircut I’ve ever had) and awesome new glasses. It seems like something that had been missing in my life. But the astro has me a little taken aback.

Can being a narcissist be a good thing?
Narcissus Rising

Dear Narcissus Rising,

There is so much to parse here!  The last post on here addressing narcissism was when a Pisces fell in with a Leo who had legit N.P.D.

When Uranus is in your 7th house, you want stimulus and that electrical, galactic, spaced-out-sensationa of pure rapport.  Also, I suspect that Love Zombies are prone to crush and crush hard on Narcissists. The Pre-Raphaelite vision of the Narcissus and Echo myth, above, could easily illustrate any of the Love Zombie posts. Just give the lady a phone.

Having said that, the asteroids Narcissus (37117) and Echo (60) are included in my Soulmating Synastry reading. Mine do nothing in my chart, but scarily, they are all over the synastry (chart to chart comparisons) of my significant relationships. Example: Sun conjunct Narcissus and my Mercury. His Echo on my Venus. My Echo on his Venus. There are other examples, but this has me shook, as the Pluto in Saggo peeps say.

As for your river swimming and yoga et al. – yes! Clearly this synergy is inspiring sensuality and heightened self-love, as well as connection to nature. Could that the purpose of this dalliance? Not that Uranus in the 7th operates with such finesse. Is writing ‘the bones’ of your life to this other man a diversionary tactic to avoid facing the dynamic of your marriage?

Or does your being “happily married” rely on you being the Echo character? I’m not sensing a narcissist here, it feels more like a liberation. What does everyone else think?

Karmic Crush?

Do you and a person of interest share significant soulmating links?
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Meta_morph

Narcissus conjunct echo conjunct ascendant. For sure I am much into narci_codependant relationships even though I frequently switch between the parts. Sometimes I feel like playing Narcissus but more often I feel a helpless and voiceless Echo

BLISS WITCH

For a case study in Love Zombie-ism let’s consider this lovely Czech version of The Little Mermaid: https://youtu.be/2VCE2PRS-C8

Like Echo she also gives up her voice. Daughter of Neptune yet she loses her underwater kingdom…. she sleeps with the Prince’s dogs outside his door. To be fair her betrothed merman husband does seem awful.

The witch is really good in this one too. And the haunting soundtrack. I listen to it in the car when I’m feeling melancholy.

BLISS WITCH

I have Echo conjunct my IC natally which I feel like makes sense- I feel unheard in family situations, particularly my family of origin, not so much my husband and kids. Tho maybe there too and hence the escapist practices. I actually have a pathetic directly related to Echo story from childhood. I got left a long in a cabin in the woods overnight. My father went to the liquor store for more beer while I was asleep and got arrested for drunk driving. I woke up from a nightmare and went looking for him. I kept hearing my voice… Read more »

milleunanotte

Sweet saints, my Echo is conjunct Venus and IC in Aquarious. Yeh, that spelling rhymes with Hilarious. His ECho and Narcissus conjunct my Leo MC Apt for my Venus square to Saturn in Taurus. Was with a Taurus. He did seem to be all in awe of my appearance and perhaps weirded out that my appearance of confidence and having it together in the home and work belied my actual state of 2nd House Capricorn status anxiety mind. Well if a Triple Taurus cannot deal with my Capricorn Mars, i mean neither can i usually as it squares everything but… Read more »

Orchid

Narcissus is conjunct my Cancer Sun/Mercury opposing Saturn and Pluto on my Libra Ascendant. Hmmmm…Echo is trine my Leo Moon. Anyone have any ideas about this? I can admit to being self-involved!

Pegasus

Snap, was just now writing a piece about marriage and how it’s changed from the 60’s. As marriage doesn’t interest me, am more excited about this Pluto in Cap biz, coz biz is the concentrate of the day. As there is much Libran energy around, i cannot decide on a life choice as 2 are presenting themselves to me. As seriously need to worship at the Altar of Mammon for a while, like for Spring/ Summer 🙂 JW Waterhouse love. Feel a need to frame prints, wonder if it is symbolic. Frame my Life. Echo and Narcissus? Prefer Psyche &… Read more »

Sam

In relation to the OP though, are you seeking attention from this guy because your husband is not meeting your needs in a way that you would like? Is the other man responsive, interested? Or is it simply words into a void? Maybe leading a healthy lifestyle is not so much healthy vanity, as simply a healthy lifestyle … I’d sure love to leap into a river every morning though x Generally I’m a bit confused about this concept of healthy vanity. Or maybe it’s just a way to claim ideological ownership over another , stigmatised vanity, to take away… Read more »

Pegasus

O PI you are making me laugh at your new role of relationshipper.
Feel many women are overthinking the man woman ‘arrangement’.
Men want food and sex. Simple…lol. And don’t live with them, it fun’s it up.

Pegasus

Oops, shades of Pentasilias (or whatever the true name of the Amazon Queen was) and the Centaurs. Just visit them at night. ON certain nights.

Sam

Oh dear is that how I sound? Ha ha.
I’ve been trying not to oversimplify men but I agree there’s definitely no harm in letting something be as simple as it needs to be… Overthinking love has its drawbacks as I am taking forever to learn. Then again it’s a bit too easy to slip into cynicism or despair and then really shut out tentative offers from the heart, whichever direction they come from. For me at least. 🙂

Sam

Awww I wrote a reply but don’t know where it went! Anyway. Not sure pegs, those relationshippings seem to preoccupy me a little, is it li’l ole node in Libra? Never mind. Mercury thoughts flit over under and around and then onwards until the next fly-over xx

Sam

Oh there it is lol huh

BLISS WITCH

Gods Pi. I don’t know. I’m sure it’s a Neptunian fantasy. I’m definitely having issues with my husband or else I wouldn’t be fantasizing. I get a crazy high when I get a letter from this guy, he writes really lovely letters. I’m sure boredom plays a factor. I’ve got two little kids. I’ve chosen someone to fantasize about that feels fairly safe. We live in different countries. I doubt he’s a creep. As for the “healthy vanity” bit that’s some advice the oracle is giving me and I thought that it was intriguing.. Maybe it is a reclaiming. My… Read more »

Sam

Despite what I said before (or as well as) it actually sounds really nice to have this connection. I mean imagine having to be all things to one person. And if you’re getting nice replies, maybe it’s simply a yummy way to connect with another human being without all the complications.
I just noticed that you said you enjoyed staring at your reflection (your own eyes , I think everyone used to do that!) – a bit like Narcissus and the pond. Maybe conjunct the ascendant is a thing, but not a bad thing 🙂

Sam

Maybe the strong narcissus relational attachments really do signify that our most significant relationships only serve to reflect us back to ourselves.
*Which is why we fall in love with them*
Whoa.

BLISS WITCH

I think there’s definitely truth in here. I’ve got my north node in the 7th house along with my Narcissus/Libra ascendant. Mystic said in my Audio Zap that I view all my relationships as the potential to be “growth relationships” and I think that’s very spot on. I cultivate friendships and learn about myself through them. Even the idea of Narcissus in Libra is a bit peculiar and maybe co-dependent sounding. But I’m a mad Sagittarius. I’ve got 5 planets there including a Venus Uranus conjunction. I crave freedom. And that may be the element I’m seeking in writing to… Read more »

RitaTocta

Whoa. This…will take some time to digest.

Nike Vk

Remember also that she was cursed by Juno–for the usual reasons
And that he turned into a flower after falling in love with his own reflection

BLISS WITCH

What do you think is the significance of the turning into the flower bit?

MoonLilith

Neutralisation. He becomes decorative.

RitaTocta

I think that he had to give his beauty away like flowers do, to the world.

Plum

Echo is conjunct my Venus, Uranus, Eros and Pan. That little cluster has a big impact on my relationships: the partners who’ve been most significant to me have all had their Sun in aspect to it. I’m not sure of Echo’s role…I have never felt that I don’t have a voice. But then, I have Narcissus conjunct Neptune, so could be deluding myself!

double.pisces

Whoa, so interesting! Echo is ON my Sun… I thought it was just a double Pisces thing to go with other people’s flows. Yes, I have been in love with a narcissist before (he had Venus on his Sun). Need to read more about this Echo person… because apparently I *AM* her.

LunaGreen

Just looked at them and thought the aspects they’re making are interesting considering current events. -Echo at 6d Sagittarius (possibly in orb of Antares) was/is sextile the Sun in Libra and Lilith/Mars in Aquarius. -Narcissus is conjunct Juno at 0d Gemini (while approaching a trine to the South Node in Aquarius & a sextile to the North Node in Leo) & might be sextile to Chiron (rx) in Aries. Soon-ish in the sky: -Both Narcissus/Juno will be retro (still conjunct) on October 12th when Venus rx Squares Mars. They will also oppose Jupiter at 29d Scorpio on Halloween while Venus… Read more »

virgosun

Anyone any ideas for venus conjunct narcissus and echo conjunct venus in synastry.

RitaTocta

Illusions, smoke and mirrors relationship?

JacQui

John W W site is amazing! so prolific and divine

Chrysalis

Sheesh Echo exact to the degree of my Toro Jupiter/MC opposite my Scorp Neptune/IC. So I have the no voice exact on my public persona thing. Plus it is an ongoing theme that I lose myself in other people’s issues/lives/goals. This theme has been on my mind of late as I contemplate yet more massive changes. How to make something positive of this???

Sam

Think of an acoustic chamber, an orchestral stage, sonar for bats and cetaceans, maybe one way to conceptualize this is that as someone who finds herself reflecting back to others their goals, dreams, directions, you are actually offering a support(?) in how they shape or direct their own selves. Perhaps, if there is a person or circle of people who are aligned with your vibe, these reflections and refractions can serve to nourish and amplify your own energy, to define the very dimensions of that stage and where you are on it, instead of disappearing yourself..

Chrysalis

Ahhh thank you Pi, both your comments much food for thought xx

Sam

Xx

Sam

Is it you who has Pluto transiting your 5th house? That’s a kind of nuclear-core-level redefinition of Who You Are In The Matter. It might be a slower and more recursive process than youre banking on? So, consider journey rather than destination..? Cap moon can push unbelievably hard for Outcomes when sometimes we need to go a bit more gently to observe and allow… Basing this on my Pluto 7th house um, slow mo travels and also a Saturn through 5th a while ago x

Chrysalis

Yep 5th house for me…moon-Lilith at 15 Cap.

Sam

So maybe consider your 11th and 3rd houses as a place to focus on or dissipate your concentrated 7th house energy, and using your lovely virgo planets to help you discriminate between people who are good for you, and those who are not.

Jokerman

I have Narcissus exactly between my 2° Saturn in Cap and my almost 9° Cap Dsc. Am I in love with myself?

surlatable

I actually think narcissus got accidentally swept into a mess. My mythology interpretation is not exactly up to code, but I actually thought, here’s a guy who looks into his own pool, sees his soul and falls so in love with it that it makes him relinquish outside attachment. He integrates his anima and literally cuts out, goes into bliss. Echo pines, maybe she should integrate her animus and then the two could truly find and consumate on another level unknown to humans or nymphs. If we all realized we were while we’d never need another, then the whole You… Read more »

BLISS WITCH

Thank you Saoirse

surlatable

<3

surlatable

Free typos as usual

surlatable

Narcissus conjunct Neptune 3rd house,exact square echo in 12th.

Here I am in the 12th house calling out to poetic mystery

AriesPiscesLibra

I love this interpretation–ps–I just asked the Oracle what my next move should be and it was “coming out as a witch.” I think you probably are one.

surlatable

I’m a mudblood but yep.

A_J_

Wow. What orbs would you use for a conjunction? Thanks!

Redsonya

Ugh! My daughter’s narcissus is conjunct my Sun and Venus, while my echo is conjunct her jupiter. Not much info on these asteroids in synastry out there. Been looking around all morning.

KosmicMind

Interesting synchro: The Gemini Moon is currently conjunct Narcissus (Echo is in opposition in Sagittarius)…..

Pothos917

deep, spiritual truth in this article.

Redsonya

Ugh, narcissus is conjunct my Midheaven, north node, and neptune in Sag. I have done the love zombie thing twice and even married one of them. Although I blame heavy Neptune goggles for that one. Any thoughts on how this would affect career, if north node, Neptune and narcissus are in the ninth house?

krs3

My ex-husband has an echo/narcissus conjunction conjunct my Narcissus. OK then.

Scorpio_Rising

Fascinating! I say you hit on something.
I think more than 6% of the population is a Narcissist now though.

Electro

Just to clarify, tricky aspects from the sun/ascendant to a hefty outer planet (3rd paragraph of response) is an indicator of narcissism? I have Scorpio Uranus conjunct ascendant and square my Leo Sun, so I’m really wondering about this part.

I didn’t see any significant Narcissus/Echo stuff. My husband has Echo conjunct Jupiter and a zombie crush I had a few years ago is my narcissus conjunct his Venus but I’m not sure what those would present as.

Electro

Ah, well I guess it would have to mean a preponderance to obsess about oneself but how can you not when you feel like a total space alien whose just picked up a few human rules along the way and you’re always left wondering wtf.

redondo.bleach

Could someone help me understand narcissus a bit better? If it’s conjunct my jupiter in a synastry chart how does that work?

kataquagem

Wow. Like MM, these two do nothing in my chart, but are all over three major relationships. Aries ex-husband has Narcissus exactly conjunct my moon, and 1 degree off my IC and exactly opposite Chiron. Virgo ex-husband with Narcissus tightly conjunct my MH/Chiron conjunction, and curiously, Echo 3 deg conjunct my Hekate. With Saggo ex-boyfriend, MY Echo is conjunct his Neptune and Hekate. This relationship was a Love Zombie scenario, with me playing the LZ. So I wonder if your own Narcissus and Echo on the other person’s planets might suggest an LZ element in your attachment to them. Although… Read more »

CleverUserID

as samantha stevens would say: “oh my stars”! i’ve been in this on again off again crazy in love, or at each others’ throats, total mirroring of one another’s shadows thing for a year and a half. we’re currently hard in the OFF stage, maybe for good. our synnastry shows us both at Narcissus 15 degrees in pisces. face palm. (echos 8 deg off in cap). we’ve got a lot of conj or near conj bc of being born in the same year w/in 6 mos of one another, and there’s a lot more here than i can totally grok… Read more »

Ms. Vervain

Fascinating!!!! Much food for thought there……..must of investigate ASAP…

sphinx

Ugh, *facepalm* I have Narcissus conjunct Neptune which is ON my DC/6thH. Echo in my 7th House with my North Node of Destiny! I wasted nigh on a decade to my love zombie tendencies. I am a serial monogamist to the core, but there is a right and wrong way to do that I do think. Happily married to Mercurial Mega Moon Man travelling together down the South Node Highway of life now though. We have no amazing aspects to Narcissus/Echo synastry-wise. Thank Goddess!

emg

Well that’s bizarre Both these do little in my chart and with most others zilch But my daughter has a massive stellium with them in cap along with sun jup nep 6th house Which all my cancer stellium sits opposite Eeeek no wonder !!

crembert

Ok so I am also love zombie-ing — 15 months strong— and in the synastry chart of my crush his echo is conjunct my narcissis — and then his narcissis is also conjunct my NN. Ugh. Interestingly my husband and I have no echo-narcissis aspects.

Are they specifically telling the tale of the love zombie— gazing into a pool and falling in love with a mirage? How to interpret?

BLISS WITCH

I don’t know! I wonder if it has to do with not really hearing the person with the Echo asteroid because you’re in love with your own projection? Like the Echo person is actually the pool that you’re gazing into longingly? Je ne sais pas.

Librarius

If I’ve had a secret crush on my best friend for 14 years (several relationships with others rolled by over the years while these feelings receded into the background but never spluttered out), am I actually love-zombying? Now I want to look at that synastry of asteroids.

Hilarygherkin

Ooof Echo in Aquarius straight opposite my Chiron and Narcissus right next to my NN in Sag opposite Venus + South Node! FATED Love Zombie episodes, anyone?

Hilarygherkin

Also in the FIFTH HOUSE!

JacQui

How many degrees is apart is classified as conjunct?

Hilarygherkin

About 5 is the most potent.

redondo.bleach

8 is the most

JacQui

So 2-4 degrees each side?

redondo.bleach

If you have one body at 15 degrees and another one at 20, they would be considered conjunct.

scorpiodawn

holy harlots. my prog moon has just moved to 0 scorp. so im now double scorp, triple martian (aries moon)
i cant begin to parse what this means during a venus retro (in scorp)
i am love zombieng too abt someone in recovery who ive managed to find out thru fbook is a scorp.
totally unrequited..hes getting married and im in a re/ship….
sorty i know this is totally off topic…kinda…but the upside is im going to more meetings and getting into the big bk more lol!! hooray for high functioning l zombies!!

Cessi

Echo conjunct my moon in scorpio which is also the ruler of my chart. Yup, the no voice theme is familliar..

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