Ask Mystic – A Strange Relationship With A Sagittarius

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Relationship With A Sagittarius

Dear Mystic,

I hope this finds you well. I’m pretty new to this and delighted to have found your site. I am reading the archive but haven’t gotten through all of it and need your wisdom.

I met this Sagittarius-excuse-of-a-man on Christmas Eve in 2016 and Eros hit me up pretty hard. I’m Cancer Sun, Gemini Moon and Leo Rising. So I spent all of 2017 in denial that I was in love. Me in love? Don’t be silly – love is never stronger than pride, I don’t care what Sade sings. Despite my futile attempts at denial, there was no denying that we spoke every day. We went to the theatre and dinner. I met his friends. He introduced me to his sister. I got invited to watch him play with his team, etc. He’s Leo Moon with a Scorpio Mars and I have no idea what his rising is. 

Eros Hit Me Up Pretty Hard

There was an incredible physical tension between us, we would avoid touching each other so carefully – as though if we did, it would set of a nuclear reaction. It was like Pride and Prejudice set in 2017. And we hail from a Mediterranean culture where everyone touches everyone, physicality is part of how we communicate.  

Then at the end of February 2018, I ended up sweetly and gently confessing the depth of my feelings. Aaaand I was harshly (even a tad cruelly) rejected. So I retreated into my shell and cut him off. He reacted to this with a mixture of attempts at manipulation and, as I later found out when I met him for the first time after two months, fury. He would not stop telling me how mad he was at me for cutting him off. Which totally confused me, since HE was the one who had rejected ME. His self-righteous anger disgusted me and so we fell into silence again. 

“Unwittingly propelled by the Mercury Retrograde in Leo – I reached out to him”

Until yesterday. Probably unwittingly propelled by the Mercury Retrograde in Leo – I reached out to him. Now, I know Centaurs are not known for the linguistic skills (if anything they have the uncanny ability to say the wrong thing, at the wrong time, in the wrong way) but Jesus tap dancing Christ; do they have no capacity for empathy and a little self-reflection? He was evidently keen to hear from me, yet he was shooting arrows during the conversations trying to load all the responsibility of the state of affairs between us on me. 

Is it always going to be like this with him? A petulant, demanding, fiery child who wants all the attention, adoration and affection but does not want to take on the responsibility of how his actions and words affect others? Is there any way to handle this without my sensitive side getting hideously upset?  We had a phenomenal intellectual chemistry and would spend hours staring into each other eyes talking about the weirdest mix of subjects. I really missed that, I do not find it so often, which is why I’d like to salvage a friendship out of this. 

Also I was wondering if the reason I got hit by Eros’ arrow is because of my Mars Capricorn linked up with his Venus Capricorn but my Venus Leo is not compatible with this Mars Scorpio?   

I have the courage to ask him straight questions, but he’s not one for straight-forward responses. So I’m turning to you instead. 

Much love and confusion from a Fiery Crab. 

This Is The First Time I Have Received An Email Complaining That A Sagittarius Is Manipulative

Dear Fiery Crab,

Well, I’d say to just sit this one out until after Mars is Direct but then, shortly after Mars is out of the shadow zone, VENUS turns Retro. And in Scorpio for your troubles. Yes, it’s one of those kind of years. So actually, this is the first time that i have received an email complaining that a Sagittarius is manipulative.

There is something missing here though. Sagittarius rejects Cancer – does it abruptly enough to sting. Some time later Cancer reaches out to Sagittarius (I am assuming you have not seen Mercury Retro anti reach out warnings in the Horoscopes?) and now he’s devolved from being caustic to furious?  So i think what is missing here is the nature of his rebuttal.  Was it because he was gay, had a partner, was wanting only to be friends with you? And so you abandoning the friendship when he felt he was just being honest hurt his feelings?

Or is our Sagittarius a bit of a narcissist? Did he think he could be nasty and that you’d still lurk around to cop more of his slings and arrows? Because, if he really had no interest in you whatsoever, wouldn’t he just be really nice about it? Letting you down gently and all? And what sort of Sagittarius is “not one for straight-forward responses?”

A Relationship With A Sagittarius Should Not Be This Cryptic

Leo-Scorpio energy is snazzy, high-chemistry, super-aware of one another. It could power up a whole new set of endorphins that scientists have not been able to i.d yet. It’s also likely that it was the Eclipse firing you up, rather than just a little old Mercury Retrograde.

And yes, i think if you had a great intellectual chemistry, then clearly your communication should be strong enough to get clear answers. Vibe-Wise, i think you like a challenge – which he is but it’s not necessarily a mountain you want to climb. Not even the foothills. And regardless of the intellectual/physical thing between you, is he actually up for evolving it any further at this point? You successfully ignored him for a year and he did not make a move to even fix the friendship, let alone aim for more.

A Future Faker?

My feeling is that you two were tripping on one another’s charisma and that zing between you but that he is one of those people that likes to keep everything perpetually simmering…but nothing ever happens. A Future Faker. A Verger – as in something is always on the verge of happening.  Enough unresolved sexual tension to power an Eighties Soap Opera series but never the denouement.

Still, the theatre, the dinner, the sister – it’s confusing.  What does everyone else think?

Image: Glen Luchford

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Librarius
Librarius

I haven’t encoutered any male Sags in my life, but the Leo in Moon got my attention; the reluctance to take responsibility for another’s feelings and take their wellbeing into account sounded peculiarly like my Moon-in-Leo ex.
I’m pretty sure that part doesn’t change, and if it does, he has to come up with some conclusions on his own accord. I’d guess he’s most likely going to reject anything you say that sounds close to criticism, and get defensive, so actually trying to get him to admit something is likely to be counterproductive.

AriesMoon
AriesMoon

“A petulant, demanding, fiery child who wants all the attention, adoration and affection but does not want to take on the responsibility of how his actions and words affect others?…”

Wow I couldn’t have asked for a better description of a Sagittarius man(child)!! I dated one for 3.5 yrs and this sums him up exactly. Sago loves to run & ditch owning up.. it’s always your fault.. they can’t be “penned down”. You are being realistic? Oh your too negative. You are asking them to consider your feeling so? Oh they have moved on, your just dwelling on the past.. lol

SamiLou
SamiLou

My exact experience with a sag man too! Im sun scorp, cancer rising, cap moon.. manipulation and lies were his forte, and it took me 18 months to stop making excuses for him and gtfo.
I find that Sag ladies are super fun and so generous, but I find the closer I get to Sag men, the more argumentative and controling they are.
I feel for our Fiery Crab friend, and empathise with you both! <3

SourPatch
SourPatch

the majority of sag men I’ve come across are man-children who want to have their cake and eat it too. I would just cut your losses and move on, sis.

ÁNLEIFR
ÁNLEIFR

You all on here are dissing Sags so bad, remember people Sag suns have other placements than just the 1 sun sign!

ICPluto
ICPluto

I do agree! I consider myself lucky for having met all the Sags in my life: the best teachers, the best friends, and even the best enemies! Sorry you’re having a tough time with this guy, Fiery Crab. Check to see if natal Chiron is involved in this mélange.

Crystallised future
Crystallised future

Fiery Crab, consider yourself lucky. Ive just ended a relationship that sounds very much like this one above. It lasted just over 2 years. Regardless of all our astrological links, the most pertinent was the fact our Chiron placement was exactly 18.33 degrees in Pisces. It was heaven and hell and the physical attraction was beyond anything I have experienced before in my life. I probably never will again. But the mind games were insane. He taught me a lot about myself but I don’t know if I’d call it ‘healing’. I hope I taught him a lot too. Mind… Read more »

A_J_
A_J_

I’m a Virgo Mars with a Pisces Mars lover and YES – they do things very differently from us. I’ve grown to understand and respect the Pisces Mars aspect through this relationship and I think he would say the same. Hard work though. I’m also a straight shooter and he is more apt to embellish lol. He hates my elephant memory which points out his inconsistencies like a needle in a haystack.

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Hey ICPluto, I had a look at where our Chirons were… and well. Both our Chirons are in Gemini. His Chiron squares both my North Node (Aries) and my South Node (Libra). And my Chiron is in opposition with his Sagittarius Sun. I do not know what any of this means, but I get the gut feeling that its not good.

Jokerman
Jokerman

This happens when people drift from the objective to the subjective. Like when people speak pejoratively. For example, “All men / women, Sagittarius, Libra, Gemini, etc do / say such n such”. Clearly this is not the case. And our charts are quite mosaic in many cases. In my case, I’ve only ever been picked as a Cancer once irl. Mostly l get Aqua or Scorpio where, along with Virgo, l have very strong signatures. Learning about the astro has helped me understand different people, more, and less about putting people in a box.

Gemyogi
Gemyogi

My ex was a Sag sun, and he was very ‘don’t fence me in’, but I also have a good friend who’s a Sag who is absolutely lovely, caring and kind… I actually quite like them and agree you can’t write off a whole ‘sign’ !

Electro
Electro

12th house moon? This post and comments are a great refresher for my Moon Neptune moon. I have a Sag work buddy with Jupiter in Pisces rising, a 12th house Aqua moon, and Mars conjunct Neptune in Sag. We have a great relationship but it had a Neptune haze in the early stages. I rode that wave, and I’m glad I did because not only did I learn how to navigate the intensity but I have at least one buddy at work. Gotta have at least one. But with your Moon Neptune (and Venus conjunct Jupiter in 8th house Gemini)… Read more »

relampagos
relampagos

as a multi-Sag lady, my take: Cancer “sweetly and gently” confessing the “depths of feelings” brushed up against Sag dude’s sense of freedom and independence, and caught Sag dude off-guard. Sags tend to share lots of eye-gaze-y, intellectual convos that may be misinterpreted by others as being more intimate than they seem, when really, we just love intellectual convos. So maybe being caught off-guard caused Sag dude to react a little bit more brusquely/honestly than was needed (which comes off to sweet Cancer as cruel). Sag dude doesn’t realize how cruelly he comes off, feels rejected on a friendship level… Read more »

relampagos
relampagos

All this isn’t to say his immaturity is excusable (it’s not). It’s just an attempt of sussing out some of the Sag-logic behind this.

saturnplutoflux
saturnplutoflux

As a fellow multi Sagg I have to agree. I have lost several dear friends after they suddenly decided that 10 yrs of 3am putting the world to rights over a bottle of wine = potential romance – resulting in me running screaming for the hills, mortally offended that they want to demote me from friend and “sister” to a mere girlfriend. I think a lot of Saggi’s value comradeship over fickle romance..

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon

As a Sag rising, I totally get this: “Saggi’s value comradeship over fickle romance.”

Jokerman
Jokerman

I agree with everything you say but want to add this. If a ‘mere girlfriend’ happened to me it would be the most wonderful energy!!!

saturnplutoflux
saturnplutoflux

lol, what do you mean?

Jokerman
Jokerman

Well if l had one she wouldn’t be a ‘mere’. Well, I am Cancer at my core.

saturnplutoflux
saturnplutoflux

That’s sweet, 🙂 I think I’ve been exposed to too much of the “bro’s before ho’s” ethos by the males around me

Pi
Pi

i think this is at the heart of why i am afraid to actually be romantically involved with some guys who i adore – a lover will break your heart. A friend never can. Why would i want to ruin a perfectly good friendship?

Jokerman
Jokerman

Friends have broken my heart.

skarab
skarab

Yes – i can see that. But conversely, in my experience with Saggos (Sun,Moon or Asc) is that it’s the sign that i found to be more likely to suggest being fur-buddies. They will try it on, but are equally as happy to respect your rejection and carry on being friends if you reject their … er, kind offer. Which i find quite funny. At least they’re honest. But this means that they quite often get themselves embroiled in v sticky situations when their fur-buddy wants more emotional commitment …. then – WHOOSH – and a trail of dust leading… Read more »

skarab
skarab

FUQ-buddies – not FUR-buddies!! damn you spellcheck!

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon

Hahahhaa! 😉

saturnplutoflux
saturnplutoflux

Hahaha I thought fur buddy was a wonderful description!

Pi
Pi

I am having the exact opposite problem … libra with venus in sadge, I am literally trying to have a conversation with this guy, get to know because shared interests etc and he is as responsive as a stone. but pour half a gallon of alcohol into him and he’s all over me. yes lol any man would be the same i guess (eyeroll… ) but it really doesn’t fit the profile :/

Jokerman
Jokerman

Try a quarter of a gallon

Pi
Pi

I’ve tried. He’s younger.. there is no such thing as moderation

kiri
kiri

My experience as a quintuple Sag communicating with Cancers… is we have very different ideas of what constitutes straightforward.

stinala
stinala

As a Cancer sun, Sagg moon, I ‘get’ it from both sides and agree with this take 100%. Been here so many times and IMO was never cruel about letting guys down. but they often took it upon themselves to get all self-righteous because they put themselves out there and have ‘never felt like this before’ so I must owe them something… when the Sagg moon in me made it clear from day 1 that all I wanted was friendship. When they then decide my comradery is not worth sticking around for, it hurts and I was always left wondering… Read more »

magnolia
magnolia

I think you have explained the different wavelengths of Cancer and Sag relating very well ..as a Cancer with a Sag/Cap long term ex this has beeny experience.
Relating on the heart level as Cancers do I feel that friendship with an ex intimate partner is virtually not possible, they get involvec all over again…..which is hard to understand for a Sag ex. as tney function very well on the purely friendship level.

skarab
skarab

I did a mini survey & put this to my Sag Moon partner, Sagg neighbour & an old Sagg friend (separately), for inside sagg-guy opinion. It is interesting that the 3 answered in almost the same way: 1: “WHAT?! ONE YEAR – NO SEX??!! NO WAY!!” 2: “He’s got other lovers/someone else 3: “He’s fu*cking with her mind – she should run” 4: “They should have a straight-shooting talk. There were variations of “fishy” & “doesn’t square up” to just plain “Wrong” & they were all convinced that there is a big piece missing from his story – but curiously… Read more »

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Thank you for doing some field research 🙂 I cannot get him to talk straight with me; all I get is anger, sarcasm and attacks. So how do you manage to run with Centaurs who are tricky? Any tips?

skarab
skarab

Hi fellow FieryCrab. I have no special tips for dealing with tricky Centaurs – as they would be the same tips that i would offer about dealing with tricky people in general. All i have to offer are questions. What we know is that he’s got Leo Moon square Mars/Pluto Scorp (muthah of freaking christ) – which he’s manifesting in a low way: phenomenal pride, self centeredness, stealth control & power games – yes? His actions seem to reflect this. His angry outbursts suggest that in his mind you broke the rules of the game (hunt) by making the last… Read more »

saturnplutoflux
saturnplutoflux

good advice!

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

I do think there is a Madonna – Whore thing going on, yes. He’s never spoke (either directly or indirectly) about seeing others during the time we were on speaking terms, even on a casual basis. With one exception: he did once tell me about a girl he had met (he was ridiculing her to me) and then he realised as he told the story that I realised he was telling me about a date and very insistently said: “She is a total bimbo, not someone I would spend any meaningful time with”. I am not seeking a romantic involvement… Read more »

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon

Please be careful and protect yourself. It sounds to me an awful lot like the empath/narcissist magnetism paradigm, and you are most definitely the empath in this equation. You can’t fix him. He will only ever give you bread crumbs, just enough to keep you around and hungry for more, and he will blame/attack you for wanting more than he gives. He will always be the one doling out the goodies, and you will always be the one waiting for more. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt (I’m an empath too, and my ex-husband was/is a malignant narcissist with… Read more »

saturnplutoflux
saturnplutoflux

if all you honestly want is an intellectual connection then go for it – it sounds like he feels the same way and you will have a loyal friend for life – if you keep to that lane. BUT to me it sounds like the pair of you may not be in synch as to what that intellectual connection means… As I mentioned above, a lot of us Saggi’s don’t really give as much weight to sexual or romantic connections as the rest of society – they’re not really a good investment being too easily broken or thrown off by… Read more »

saturnplutoflux
saturnplutoflux

Also – if you are dealing with a genuine narcissist, then no, there is no way to deal with him while still finding ways to protect yourself. And more to the point, why would you want to? (Masochism? Childhood wounds?) IF he is genuinely psychologically distorted in this way, you will never have a genuine friendship, regardless of his star sign. I think you would be better off investigating whats going on for you in this scenario – is he really selfish, self centred, narcissistic? Or is that how you’re reading him because he’s not responding as you would like?… Read more »

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Thank you for your thoughts and thought-provoking questions. I think perhaps the intellectual bond is a tad too breezily understood? When I say we have niche interests, I really do mean we have niche interests. It was our work that brought us together in the first place. And the stuff we look into on a professional level is pretty dark at times and it is rare to be able to talk to someone about it without having to worry about traumatising them. I am a very “live and let live” type of person. I hope that my interactions with everyone… Read more »

Tamea
Tamea

As a Saggi female – do Saggi females act differently to the males? I don’t have a manipulative bone in my body. Sometimes I wish I did as it would make my life so much easier. I am frank and honest – hate to tell white lies (have learned to for social reasons).

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Personally, I think here is a gender difference, yes. The honest, straight-talking type of traits I have seen in Sagittarius women. But for men, I think people get their ability to say the wrong thing, at the wrong time, at the wrong place as honesty whereas in fact it is tactlessness.

ÁNLEIFR
ÁNLEIFR

I don’t know, they are lumping up all Sag to be like this guy when they are not!

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

To be fair, Mystic said that she had never heard of a Sagittarius be manipulative before. Perhaps that is way so many people came forward with stories of experiences showing otherwise. We lump positive traits without hesitation…

Universali
Universali

I just wanted to add that the most narcissistic and manipulative man I have ever known is a Saggi. He could have out-manipulated the Scorpio who came before him w his eyes closed & his hands tied!

moongoat
moongoat

I agree. The sag male I was involved with also got angry and hostile when any honesty was attempted on my part.

ÁNLEIFR
ÁNLEIFR

What were their other placements?

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab
VSLR
VSLR

VSLR here – been through something very similar. Pisces (sun), Scorp moon, Venus/mars in aqua. Not sure of his rising sign. Met in Sept 2016, fell for him around Dec 2016 – in hindsight i spent 2017 fantisizing, idealising a relationship that wasn’t a relationship in any real sense. Our conversations were great and he said all the right things. Things were complicated because he was also my teacher who i saw once a week for religious classes. I got a friend to ask him about me and to see potential for a relationship back in Sept/Oct 2017 and he… Read more »

fallen angel
fallen angel

Darkling, why in the world would you want to have a chance at a “proper relationship” with this man who as your religious teacher surely should have had some standards as to treating a fellow human being better? I mean, of the list of reasons he gave he might as well have added he was moving ex-planet by end of year! And by Hades, I truly understand when one doesn’t have one’s life sorted – a lack of purpose and direction results in a wild, chaotic energy in men, the likes of which can truly derail a woman’s life, should… Read more »

VSLR
VSLR

It was my fault for not having the conversation much much earlier saving myself time and heart energy. But I can’t keep crying over spilt milk. Working on dissecting this “unwillingness” and turning the love I have to give to self-love.

FlyingFox
FlyingFox

I was wondering about a pisces influence somewhere in his chart. Reminded me of a Leo sun, Pisces moon guy I had a weird interlude with. Just…the introduction to his friends and all of that protracted ambiguous circulating was familiar to me. He wanted to draw weird boundaries around me but not disclose what was happening in his interior personal life, share feelings, or provide feedback of any kind except one angry outburst similar to your guy’s. I currently have a Virgo sun, Sag rising, Scorpio guy on my hands. I swear to God, not only is he Peter Pan… Read more »

emg
emg

Has anyone thought… micro penis ?

Saoirse Kirke
Saoirse Kirke

Where’s both yer mercuries?

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Hi, his Mercury is in Sagittarius while mine is in Leo.

Jo Jo Maria
Jo Jo Maria

Just what I was thinking……….

Chrysalis
Chrysalis

Wow. I have read this a few times and I just cannot fathom it. I don’t know Saggs that well and the ones I do know are fantastic people, truth speakers and fearless truth seekers. I will say that it smacks of Neptune on both sides. It is so tempting to romanticise certain types of behaviour; I wonder if that is what has inadvertently happened as you struggle to explain why this man has friendzoned you and won’t take it further physically, when your Gem moon is loving the intellectual chemistry. In my experience most men will try their luck… Read more »

Librarius
Librarius

This sounds like the most insightul advice and I can very much get behind it, thank you, Chrysalis! Your astro-points ring true, but I also was thinking that plain old psychological interpretation would be “this emotionally unavailable man best be avoided” or something along the lines.

Chironx8
Chironx8

My partner of twenty years is a Sagg and he is very emotionally manipulative and everything is always my fault. The narcissist always needs fuel for their fire … beautiful and intellectual and charming and all the gorgeous Sagg traits too … it’s a rollercoaster, be warned

skarab
skarab

Is there a male equivalent phrase for a cock-teaser?

Athena
Athena

A clit tease

Laurel
Laurel

Given signs often have traits of the sign before or after it, I’d say this is a Sag-Scorp [rather than a Sag-Sag who greets every lover ex, new, maybe, could be with a big smile and warm hug.]

so_dance
so_dance

My dad was Sagittarius and had Narcissistic personality disorder and bi-polar. He put our family through hell with his manipulative behaviour. I’d steer clear of this chap; the good times seem to be gone

Unicorn Sparkles
Unicorn Sparkles

This is like every weird Sag male story I’ve heard… the simmering with never a sealed deal. And I’ve heard a few.

I’d focus on being thankful for the positives but run far far away because there’s no positives left.

@iris
@iris

Yeah, I don’t think you need Astro for that, lady.
The way this person treated you after you revealed something as precious and fragile as your true feelings was mad disrespectful.
Get your beautiful self and wonderful intellect away from this basura of a human being.

Rainygems
Rainygems

Sagittarius is one of the most manipulative, narcissistic signs I’ve encountered. I’m all Cardinal energy, all 4 of them ruling all my major stuff in a very connected way, and in my opinion; mutables of ANY KIND are so fucking flakey and can’t handle direct energy at all! They’re the worst word smiths and manipulators. Future trippers to the max. My best friend is a somewhat high-end Sag, we have grown up together and she at least tries to own these low-end mutable urges but if you want direct, go for a cardinal sign. Fixed and mutables both are so… Read more »

fallenangel
fallenangel

Well, this is a damning indictment.

Geminian
Geminian

Yes, but some good material here for a soap opera don’t you think? Days of Our Fires even? Mutables be damned. Imma gonna have a lie down now 🙁

Alouetta
Alouetta

That was a fun read!

Ale
Ale

Sag sun, Virgo Moon, Cancer ascendant here. I don’t recognize this behavior at all as something Saggy. I really think he’s acting this way because he is above all things, a jackass. My suggestion would be to cut your losses and go find yourself a mermaid/merman, but don’t settle for this stinky fish!!!

Gemyogi
Gemyogi

Agree. You can’t blame Sagg for his badness… IMO Leo moons are often *very* narcissistic, more so than Leo suns, plus the Scorpio Mars may be making him sneaky and vengeful (low Scorp) but he just sounds like a bad one.

LA
LA

I would hazard a guess that he has a LOT of stuff going on, that is entirely unrelated to you – maybe even whole personas. Keep us updated!

Pi
Pi

Don’t know much about the rest, but I know Sadge suns (men and women) can be pretty crap at feelings of the complex/vulnerable variety. It tends to make them pull all the arrows at once out of the quiver and fire them in your general direction if they have other un-addressed issues. Especially if is Leo in the mix. When challenged or under pressure, that bluntness can take on a sharp edge which to the average cancerian (/water sun) can look a lot like being an asshole.

Secret Sagg
Secret Sagg

My gaydar is screaming that he’s in the closet – maybe even to himself (Don’t take that as gospel, ‘cos I’m a bit rusty).

With a Scorp Sun square Leo Moon, and 4 planet Sagg stellium, I see that he cares about you (but not in That Way), otherwise he wouldn’t be behaving like a spoilt little Diva – he actually IS hurt, and thus he isn’t acting particularly loving or lovable as a result.

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Quite a few people have said this to me (none of them know him personally, just from the story). I dismissed the idea initially since it seems arrogant to assume that a guy must be gay because he’s not into me, after all it could just be that he does not find me attractive. Yet, his behaviour does not suggest a normal friendship bond either. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is closeted to himself as well. Or if there is another sexual issue, like impotence. One thing he would do when we were on speaking terms was boast about… Read more »

MissDee
MissDee

Well I’d say he has a lot of insecurities at least about his lovability and maybe about his sexuality, but we cannot tell this for sure. One thing for sure though is that he HAS said insecurities and though I am sure you have very much affection for him, I’d stay away from this guy.

Secret Sagg
Secret Sagg

The trying to make you jealous thing ain’t cool. Here I was trying to be compassionate on his part. Now I’m thinking it’s not even worth trying to salvage a friendship with this guy.

You deserve so much better than this manipulative shizz.

Pi
Pi

Yeah. I can’t add to anything about his sexuality but that kind of wierdly uneven reaction would seek to be masking pain. But whether that pain is your problem or not, ms cancerian, is the question. And the answer is, at this point of your connection: no it’s not, actually. You can care but it’s not your problem

Pi
Pi

SEEM NOT SEEK

Lux Interior Is My Co-Pilot
Lux Interior Is My Co-Pilot

Could you actually have his start sign wrong?

I don’t get it.

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Haha! Before I worked up the courage to ask when his birthday was I was guessing he was either a Pisces, Sagittarius or Aquarius. I was hoping for the latter; I adore Aquarius men. But alas… anyway, he is not the first nor only Sagittarius (regardless of gender) I have found to be less than forthcoming; truth is very much THEIR truth rather than a universal kind.

Virgonator
Virgonator

My ex husband is a Sag, as is the guy I dated who a) got back together with his ex without telling me and blamed the weirdness between us on me, b) stole my credit cards and c) sued my family anonymously while swearing up down and center that he wasn’t. I don’t find them particularly honest or straightforward, particularly when threatened. My ex does this thing (confirmed to me while we were still together by friends of his), of saying he’ll take you out to dinner (someplace nice, of course, and he’ll order something expensive like salmon), then insist… Read more »

crisannm
crisannm

My best friend has YOUR Sun, Moon, Rising – so I feel a kinship for you. I also had a baby with a Sag, and whoo-boy. This one I’d agree sounds like a narcissist. BE WARE. Besides, sweet Kataka, you deserve someone who would only treat your sweet heart with kindness. I also agree with Mystic that he’s a future faker or a verger, and even if it were more real, I think it might be too chaotic for you. Just an intuitive feel. <3

socialgraffiti
socialgraffiti

He just wants attention. You were right to drop him

BLISS WITCH
BLISS WITCH

I have done this!! I have 5 planets in Sag. Mars S. Node Pluto conjunct in Scorpio 1st house, Libra rising.

I remember flirting endlessly for months with my now husband. The first time he tried to kiss me I threw away the clothes I had been wearing and gave him the cold shoulder for months. And he was my boss. I wouldn’t even look at him.

There are other similar examples. Sorry!!

Alouetta
Alouetta

Haha! Can you explain it some more? Why? What did it make you feel?

BLISS WITCH
BLISS WITCH

For me it was the intensity. It was so intense.

We didn’t get together until I saw him with someone else and when that happened I got jealous and possessive. In retrospect I think this is totally my Mars/Pluto in Scorpio- but maybe the Sagittarius parts flee the intensity not willing to give up our freedoms? I don’t know. I do know that I ashamedly recognize myself in this dude.

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Thank you for your insights. I think the intensity vs. freedom dilemma is real.

Jokerman
Jokerman

I’ve never understood the to n fro that some display in relationships; both sexes.
I only have 18 forward gears…..and no reverse!

skarab
skarab

Some don’t care as much for gears … as for plenty in reserve.

Aqua-cap-Gemini
Aqua-cap-Gemini

“A Relationship With A Sagittarius Should Not Be This Cryptic” – I’m gonna has a guess at his rising sign… Pisces.

Delicate1
Delicate1

I too have an interesting experience with a Sag (Sun) Moon (Leo) Pisces (rising) reading this question section. I felt chills as I read it. Very similar. Tons of mental stimuli, for 9 years off and on. I’ve decided to sever all ties, after my second failed attempt at dating him. Turns out my Sag for whatever reason is always cold and non responsive I believe due to the fact he’s usually always in the middle of his next great love affair. It would appear we know the same guy or Sags are great conversationalist with Diva personalities (Leo Moon)… Read more »

Scorpleocap
Scorpleocap

Dear Fiery Crab, I feel compelled to reply because gosh I feel for you! I was in a similar situation once where a guy was “dating” me like a girlfriend, but minus the physical side (despite him making out that he was so hetero) and it just about did my head in. I feel your pain. I never figured out exactly what his story was, but, basically, I think your Mum (and was it your sis too?) is on the money. He’s got to be either in-denial gay (they definitely do still exist) or extremely narcissistic, or BOTH to act… Read more »

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Aww thank you so much for such a warm, kind and generous reply (I blushed a little) <3 Thank you again!

ÁNLEIFR
ÁNLEIFR

Hi, I am a Sag sun and Leo moon. I don’t think any of his actions derived from his Sag sun, more than likely that attention wanting Leo moon.. maybe that Mars in Scorpio? Mystic is right though, we are in a MARS retro and Mercury retro, his Mars being in Scorpio and all. My guess is he got upset that you cut him off but doesn’t realize it is because he rejected you. He probably rejected you because he wasn’t sure where he wanted the relationship to go yet, then when you cut him off he didn’t understand why… Read more »

fallenangel
fallenangel

Lord have mercy girl. I agree with Reikiology. Run. Does he have Neptune prominent in his shizz? Fair warning, I may be projecting. I was with a Sagg for years, and yes the soul of candor, until I found out he had fabricated – rather expertly I may add, his entire life, weaving the truth with lies like some kind of master weaver. Mine was a creative producer, and did he take that to heart! Mother supposedly died of Cancer when he was 17, nope – alive and well in Vancouver Island somewhere. I mean, we’d only spent months at… Read more »

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Wow, thank you for sharing your story and insights! I really appreciate it.

fallenangel
fallenangel

You’re welcome hun.. I reckon there are scads of men and women I’ve saved from the perils of my own mishaps. I have Venus Leo too babe, and it will NOT do you any good to go a-chasing. Leave him to marinate, check in 5 years to see if any growth occurred. Sagg men in particular, take a while to grow the F up.

Secret Sagg
Secret Sagg

“ So I spent all of 2017 in denial that I was in love”

I suspect they both have some Neptune going on.

fallenangel
fallenangel

And this is why I advocate getting to the sex after a certain point.. one has to know if the chemistry is real, otherwise it’s just all tension, head-fuckery and theorem, not to mention being so pent up you begin thinking it’s love. I mean, love is presence no?

Secret Sagg
Secret Sagg

Absofuqing-lutely

Reikology
Reikology

Run

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon

My money is on an Aries ascendant (or a Scorpio ascendant – Mars being co-ruler), with the chart ruler Mars in Scorpio being the driver here, and the fire sign camaraderie being ignited. Bait, bait, bait, investigate, Scorpio to Cancer tribe vibe, but ultimately he is fishing for a different type of fish. Aries brashness, Scorpion sting, the Sun sign can be overruled. If it doesn’t open, it’s not your door. NEXT!

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon

And for the phenomenal intellectual chemistry, that may be your Gemini moon talking. It is opposite his Sun (at least by sign) and you are on the same spectrum, just at opposite ends of it. There’s recognition there, but meeting in the middle may sometimes be a challenge. You sound at least somewhat familiar with his chart – I wonder where his Saturn is and if it is interfering with any of his personal planets? Would be great to know his rising sign of course, so you could grok house placements. All in all though, it sounds like you need… Read more »

Ari
Ari

I’ve been dealing with a Sag Sun, Gemini Rising for a good year though we don’t speak anymore, he was unable to speak feelings due to his Saturn conjunct Moon in Libra, but when it comes to letting me know he wanted me in his life though not as I wanted him, he was pretty straight forward… I’m Cancer Sun myself and I this relationship was pretty hard on me, I know this transits are like bootcamp of relationships, I mean Mercury retro, Mars retro, Venus soon retro in Scorpio PFFFF. I’ve been pretty quiet for days now, cause my… Read more »

Venusian8
Venusian8

This reaks of come here go away. Classic anxious avoidant attachment style. Nup, do yourself a favour and keep on running sista x

Aqualady
Aqualady

“A petulant, demanding, fiery child who wants all the attention, adoration and affection but does not want to take on the responsibility of how his actions and words affect others?”

This sounds like a Leo Moon man-baby.

As a Sag rising with a Gemini Moon I’m going to say don’t waste your time. Actions speak louder than words and when people show you who they are believe them. You deserve better. 🙂 While all the Sags I know are quite blunt but they’re not usually cruel.

Algol
Algol

It does have the vibe of Mars, and Scorpio… all re-sparked by an Eclipse with Mars on the S. Node. Best advice sounds like waiting and watching until Mars goes direct. A guy who is eye staring you, and not making any kind of move, sounds very suspicious, unless he has some deep wounded shyness that you were sparking him to try and come out of his shell, but this sounds like the opposite of that– more like manipulation.

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon

Yep, and he has Moon square Mars (at least by sign if not by degree) which in Leo-Scorpio can be quite push-pull and manipulative. Demanding and petulant. Me first and I decide what I will give you. And in the meantime you get to watch me play sports and be my cheerleader.

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

@PlutoMoon – You got it! I just checked his chart closely and yes, he does have his Leo Moon squaring Scorpio Mars (and squaring Scorpio Pluto too).

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon

Do you have anything in contact with his Pluto in Scorpio?? That may be what’s drawing you in right there. Is it trine your Sun? Or sextile your Mars in Capricorn? Or square your Venus in Leo??

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Well. My Venus Leo trines *all* of the following of his natal placements: Sun Sagittarius, Uranus Sagittarius, Jupiter Aries, and Saturn Sagittarius. His Pluto Scorpio squares my Asc Leo and Mercury Leo, meanwhile it also trines my Sun Cancer. His Pluto trine my Sun Cancer is an exact aspect. My Mars Capricorn is in conjunction with his Venus Capricorn. Look at the synastry chart now, I noticed my Sun Cancer is in opposition to his Neptune Capricorn; no wonder he’s a mystery to me.

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon

Oh dear goddess, is he a Venus/Neptune conjunct in Capricorn?? That would be a big thing right there. I would think in a male that would be similar to a Mars/Neptune male. Especially if his Neptune is in aspect to his Mars. And is his Saturn near his Sun in Sagittarius? Or are Saturn and Uranus conjunct? My mom has Saturn/Uranus conjunct in Taurus and she is stop/go/manipulative as hell and all over the freaking map. Also his Pluto is vamping the shite out of your Sun if they are exactly trine. That is the catnip that is drawing you… Read more »

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

You are too good at this! So I looked and yes, his Saturn and Uranus are conjunct. There is not an aspect between his Venus/Neptune *but* his Scorpio Mars is sextile his Capricorn Neptune. His Saturn and Sun are close on his chart, only separated by 6 degrees.

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

In a strange sort of way I have this habit/natural inclination to help people in a private way. Whether on a professional or a personal capacity, there is a lot I keep hidden and it feels most comfortable. I attribute this to my Sun being in the 12th House and my Moon being in the 11th. So I do not ‘mind’ if I was his cover, however, I’ll need to be more careful in any future interaction with him and not get carried away. Aside: My North Node is in Aries — which I see as pushing me into getting… Read more »

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon

Yes, sun in the 12th indicates a Pisces nature, for sure. He sounds conflicted as hell, and that shows up in his chart. Sun on Saturn/Uranus, Mars/Pluto (in Scorpio!) sextile Neptune AND square Moon in Leo… you have the ability to see him and get him, which I’m sure he appreciates, but it doesn’t sound like this affinity is reciprocated. If you are okay with your “service” (totally a 12th house/Pisces thing) you’re doing/have done for him, the helping him in a private way, then cool. Just realize that’s all it’s going to be with this one. It’s not going… Read more »

PlutoMoon
PlutoMoon

One more thing – he may not be gay or using you as his beard… he may just be extremely resistant to being chased because it makes him feel out of control. Mars/Pluto in Scorpio male = needs to be in control, always. You initiating it (did you initiate this during Mars retro, even the shadow? cause that would = backfire too, especially with such a powerful Mars guy, who would certainly be feeling the powerlessness of a Mars retrograde period) by telling him how you felt would make a guy like him backpedal ferociously. He may have rejected the… Read more »

sphinx
sphinx

This story wafted off the screen with the scent you get from driving with the breaks on and accelator to the floor at the same time.

That’s the Cancer and Sagittarius combo smell.

saggenie
saggenie

Haha! nice

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

I genuinely lol’ed.

skarab
skarab

LOL, too funny!! … and oh so familiar.

Alouetta
Alouetta

Haha! Have smelled the perfume Black? I imagine it’s like that.

Secret Sagg
Secret Sagg

Hecate on skates this is hilarious!

BLISS WITCH
BLISS WITCH

God this is true. My first boyfriend was a Cancer. I still haven’t healed all my Cancer wounds.

april
april

Cancer sun… Maybe in spite of a snazzy Leo rising and loving a challenge (don’t we all?? hehehe), isn’t there something there that wants to…nest and find the peace? Cancer suns are one of my faves, partly for what I interpret as this ability to find “home” no matter how much things may be swirling around… So all this sounds like a lot. Whenever I’ve found it in myself to “let go” (i.e. “f this fool, I’m living my best life”) the energy shifts and things get clearer (with them, in general, w/e). Not that it’s for that purpose, but… Read more »

sunflower
sunflower

Hello. I’m relatively new on here as well – and similarly overjoyed to have found mystic’s corner of the web – and am emerging from a similar experience with a Cancer Sun, Leo Moon, Gemini Sun, and the synchronicity was too much to remain a wallflower. I’m a Leo sun, Sagitarrius moon, Scorpio rising. We met December 2016, there was a cheerfully light though restrained flirtatious vibe throughout 2017, which I was cool with in a platonic, intellectual (Sagittarian idealist?) way. There was a strop in March when I announced that I would be relocating so, wanting to part on… Read more »

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Hey, the timeline is so eerily matching (!) – I just had to respond to your message. Thank you for sharing your story. I hope your situation resolves itself or, that at the very least, you feel resolved and unburdened by it.

sunflower
sunflower

You’re welcome. I’m fine thanks Such things will happen. I hope that your situation resolves itself too. Whatever the astro is or whatever reasons underpin misunderstandings or fall outs, you’re fully entitled to feel valued for yourself and at ease in whatever relationships surround you. Otherwise what’s the point. Good luck!

emg
emg

So yes I am confused too? Was there no physical contact in this relationship? And if not are you under age or have another reason to not get into the physical ? Did you talk about your waiting game together? I will admit that the whole non physical thing is an alien concept to me because if there is chemistry I am spilling the test tubes and firing up the Bunsen burner within two or three seconds! However… sounds as though there was a lack of depth conversation between you two. You may have talked the hind legs of each… Read more »

TheFieryCrab
TheFieryCrab

Hey, thank you (and everyone else) for your thoughtful comment(s). It is so funny to me about the “is he gay” question because this is exactly what my mama and quite a few of my guy and girl friends have said. He made it abundantly clear to me that he is hetero, but who knows, perhaps he is deeply closeted? And we are very much over age and definitely not virgins, and usually I’m not shy sexually or anything like that. But, honestly we were like two 15 year old teenagers who had never kissed in their lives ever. Every… Read more »

MissDee
MissDee

I recognize Scoprio vibes here and also Venus (staying away without trying the friendship card) but in my whole life and I have not met a Saggo this cruel. I believe they are incapable of such cruelty (though Pablo Escobar was a Saggo so…). Anywho: some things don’t add up here, expecially the friends + sister + being all public and then going all rejection. I’d say you could wait for Mercury to turn direct and try and talk to him honestly: why driving you to behave like a couple and then bam nothing? I’d be honest and go all… Read more »

virgo rising
virgo rising

Run don’t walk to the nearest exit

MissDee
MissDee

I agree. It all sound too manipulative to begin with. I treat you like my girlfriend but we are not together and we don’t have sex? I tell you I love you, you sting me and freeze me and now it’s also MY FAULT we don’t see each other?

carmee.mccallee
carmee.mccallee

THAT was a fascinating read! Especially since I have a Sagittarius Moon and recently had a very similar experience (only vice-versa) with a Cancer Sun/Capricorn Moon male. Fun times, eh? No. Fuq no! But in this scenario, I cannot fathom a Sag who is not lead their sense of truth and not brutally honest. Weird.

sunsagscorpasc
sunsagscorpasc

I’ve dated two Scorpio Mars guys, one Lep asc and the other Aq asc. Both these guys were Mars sq Asc, one in 10th and one in 4th, so that gave them extra sting. But yes, sting they do when they feel are defending, and they aren’t defending from us, they are defending themselves from their own denied feelings. AND they blame us on top of being total irrational asshats. Know it well. Getting them to drop the defences is almost impossible even when they know they are doing it. I had to just point out they were in their… Read more »

Rita
Rita

I love your choice of words Mystic! I was going to comment how this “relationship” reminded me one my sister would talk about (She even made the same Pride and Prejudice reference back then uau!) and “Future Faker” is an incredible title for it! Also from my experience the angry outbursts shouts Narcisistc disorder to me. To confuse the emotional prey and make her question herself and everything is a very narcisistic thing to do, not so much related to signs me thinks!

Pi
Pi

This has just given me a break through about the neptunian libran virgo boss, and money. Completely unrelated I know. But thanks. X

Mystic Medusa
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