Do Saturn Transits Always Involve A Sacrifice?

Mystic advises an Aries who, at the end of her Saturn conjunct Moon transit, wonders if Saturn always involves a sacrifice of sorts.

Dear Mystic,

All day yesterday and today I have been extremely saturnine. It’s in these moments I resolve to wink at the next Capricorn I walk by, having now dipped my Aries hoof in and out of their daily, heavy reality.

The past three years, I’ve thought a lot about the evening of December 19th, 2017. Would I be able to feel Saturn moving off my Moon? Who will be in my life still? Hell, WOULD I be alive still? If so, will I be excited or exhausted or both? I am finally near the end of my first return. As I look back on my former selves, I see how much I have evolved as a person and energetic vessel. It’s as exhilarating as it is bittersweet.

After weathering a nearly year-long Saturn conjunct Moon transit, a thought popped into my head. We all know it’s an understatement to say that the Time God requires hard work and sacrifice. Before my Saturn Return, I had a very narrow idea of that: grinding along my path and never giving up on my goals, etc. After the wild ride of this transit, I look at the former friends, lovers, energy vamps no longer in my life because I finally said no (Saturn on my DC). Some of them left on their own accord, some of them I had to slam the door on repeatedly until they realized my energy was no longer on tap. I sacrificed them in the name of Saturn, removing my rosy colored glasses of romantic naivete for a slightly less sparkly but more substantial reality.

Since My Saturn Conjunct Moon Transit, Everything Is Less Sparkly But More Solid

I am wondering if this is already a point of discussion for Saturn transits? To display a commitment to self-leveling by laying to rest that which we hold dear but know is not in our best interest?

When I think back on the relationships past, I couldn’t go back if I wanted. My psyche throws up images of statues made of ash and soot, liable to crumble into a complete mess if I were to touch them. Still, a small part of me knows that they must crumble to the earth so that I can plant a new harvest. With Saturn rolling through the fire sign of truth and conviction, this makes perfect sense to me. What is the point of sacrifice if you don’t build something better? 

I am curious about your thoughts on this matter. I genuinely do not know what I would have done without Mystic Medusa, the Horoscopes, Tarot and Oracle, and the community here. It is like I am about to prance across the graduation stage to get my diploma, but I have to hand off a letter to my favorite professor first.

Best,

Sagittarius Moon, Class of 2017

Saturn Is Remapping Your Comfort Zone

Dear Sagittarius Moon,

Well, holy Hecate, never mind your Moon – where is your Mercury?  You can certainly write. And i am honored/immeasurably elevated by the kind words in the last paragraph as i am doing my own Saturn trip this week and it’s well, Saturnine. But okay, yes, Moon. A Saturn conjunct Moon transit is one of the most profound transits of all. It’s only once every 28/29 years. It represents the remapping of your comfort zone. The Moon is our psyche, our Yin den, the place where we are. Saturn is a striver. Saturn delineates.

So yes Saturn in Sagittarius – the teacher in the sign of momentum and blazing conviction, arrows of truth…those crazy centaurs –  means you can’t fake it. Not a single thing. No corsetry – emotional or literal. You go to tell a lie, and your voice cracks like it can’t do it.  It may as well be a fairy tale where you open your mouth and jewels or frogs come out.

Doors Are Open Or Closed, Not Left Ajar

And with Saturn, it’s definitive. Doors are opened or closed, but if it is the latter, they are not left ajar.  The ground that you can no longer stand on is not even vaguely hospitable. Your comfort zone gets re-zoned into a ‘no standing’ zone.  As for loitering, it’s not Sagittarian.

So yes i think you’re bang-on with all of this – you are letting a part of yourself die unto the past so that your other dimensions may thrive anew. I don’t see it as a “sacrifice” unless you see a Phoenix as sacrificing their previous self for the sake of rebirth. A Saturn conjunct Moon transit is also notorious for bringing up any mother issues and drawing your attention to your friends and ‘support’ people. If you’re mistaking drinking buddies for dependable companions or sentiment for quality emotion, Saturn-Moon will sort that right out.

Image:  Chidori Dama

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Wendy UsherIsis BrunetScorpyPegasusRuby Nadler Recent comment authors
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GwendolynMM Member
Gwendolyn

Thank you SO much for your wise,loving and kind words.
Compassion and empathy for a “stranger” overwhelms me.
MM has attracted a wonderful TRIBE and I am grateful and humbled by your support.

GwendolynMM Member
Gwendolyn

Just entered my second Saturn Return…
My mother passed away this morning….
Wtf
Broke her hip last Friday, gone today
What next?

Jokerman
Jokerman

My mum n dad are both not well….or so l hear (2° Sat in Cap)

WaterGemMM Member
WaterGem

Sending love to you Gwendolyn.

GwendolynMM Member
Gwendolyn

Thank you
Unfortunately I feel my 90 year old father will follow her…
I will lose both parents in my second Saturn Return (natal Saturn in my 12 th house)
Orphaned, but free.
Don’t mean to sound hard but being sole carer for a demented mother (in a home) and my dad with terminal prostate cancer, is a tough gig…plus I’m recovering from intimate partner abuse and PTSS

a Deborah Conway lyric comes to mind…

“It’s only the beginning but I’ve already gone and lost my mind, I feel like making daisy chains and playing hide and seek “

WaterGemMM Member
WaterGem

You don’t sound hard to me – you sound like someone going through hard terrain without knowing how much further it goes on – wishing you well

emgMM Member
emg

Gwendolyn, that’s not hard it is simply realistic and honest. When you face a loss of this nature it is always double edged and you can soon really look forward to your new found life. Rejoice for them and their life and rejoice for yours. Wishing you well this Saturnalia.

birdMM Member
bird

I’m so sorry to hear you’ve had such a difficult time, Gwendolyn. Wishing you much peace, happiness and fulfillment in the coming months and years.

Oh, and speaking deepest truth sometimes makes us sound hard, but not many possess the courage and integrity to even face the truth within themselves, let alone say it aloud. It’s a noble quality. You didn’t sound hard. I imagine you must feel exhausted. xxx

sphinx
sphinx

Oh I am so very sorry! My condolences. From your comment below it seems there must be much going on for you. Wishing you lightness and grace, xx

PiMM Member
Pi

I’m sorry for your loss Gwendolyn. X

flowerchild
flowerchild

Sending you condolences, strength, and peace, Gwendolyn!

Sounds like it’s time for a lot of self-care through this transition and as you heal from the abuse. Things come to pass, not to stay…..you will heal through this!

MissDeeMM Member
MissDee

Happy Saturn in Capricorn to everyone.
Is it me or does it already feel much calmer around?
It’s also the last 3 days of Mercury Retro, sitting at 13° Saggo for all of the 3 days (+ Saturday when it’s direct).
That should be interesting.

sphinx
sphinx

It’s literally been the end of some cycles to the minute in terms of planning. I am hoping Saturn in his homeland vibration of Capricorn is more about excellent action.

Pegasus
Pegasus

That answer was pro-found Myst.
As a lotta Sagg here, the shift of Saturn leaving the constellation of my world, has had me breathing again. A definite lightness of being has returned. It was (love the past tense) the heaviest of 7 years for someone who used to eat ‘heavy’ for breakfast.

Now Saturn on my ascendant commencing at 00 Capricorn.
Guess THIS transit will be whatever i want it to be. Shall call it The Gathering. Gathering together the output from Pluto the Saturn in Sagg and make a structure from it…that i can take to the bank 🙂

PiMM Member
Pi

I love you pegs! I was just wondering how you were going. Glad that Saturn is out of your 12th house now and back where you can see it <3

Pegasus
Pegasus

Hi Pi, not subscribed so don’t feel i have the right of posting as i used to, but still checking in now and then. The Breathworker who lost her breath, O the irony. The journey of self healing has been intense but reached 70 yo with all my limbs and organs and avoided dreaded hospitals by sheer determination! Used to start sessions with saying ‘breath is life’, so have quoted that 5000 + times, knowing it’s true w/o having the actual experience of KNOWING it physically. Hope to be starting work again after 2 years now the energy has returned… Read more »

sphinx
sphinx

Haa, take it to the bank Pegs!

Pegasus
Pegasus

‘Love don’t help you at the bank or fill up your tank’…who sang that?
Can’t keep a good woman down, as you would know Sphinx, not for long anyways 🙂
Wishing you and your loved ones beaucoup joy and safety for the season.x

Leo-Scorp GrrrlMM Member
Leo-Scorp Grrrl

How bad is a Saturn conjunction moon transit ? I need to go plan for 8 degrees Capricorn and check the ephemeris.

sphinx
sphinx

It wasn’t good for me. Think meditation, acceptance and grace.

VeronicaMM Member
Veronica

I remember you talking about this at the time, whereas I found that transit very positive.

it seemed to me that my ‘dreams came true’ i.e. became concrete. This maybe because I have moon neptune conjunct in 2nd

sphinx
sphinx

Thanks V, I am so happy that it was positive to you! Yes, I have had Uranus in my Chiron and a few other intense transits at that time. How does Saturn in Capricorn impact you? It opposes my Cancer stellium but I am finding this a thoughtful and more masterful aspect.

VeronicaMM Member
Veronica

I’m thinking it will trine my Virgo stellium in the 12th, and give me a temporary grand trine earth, added to natal taurus jupes in 8th…

Transitting Saturn in cap in my 4th, so all i can see ahead is work, work, work -Hopefully mostly in my studio.

sphinx
sphinx

Mmm that sounds super, a grand earth trine, I will always see you as the Queen of Pentacles in her red robes. 🙂

WaterGemMM Member
WaterGem

I have Saturn Moon conjunct natally (in Pisces). It’s still a work in progress but some learnings have incl;
– something about letting things unfold in their own time,
– being absolutely non negotiable about allowing chi vampires anywhere near your self
– being your own mother/father
– firm and kind boundaries to self and others
– movement/exercise

PiMM Member
Pi

The Five Commandments for saturnian moons. Thank you watergem

sphinx
sphinx

That’s sage, that is.
Brilliant.

ChrysalisMM Member
Chrysalis

This totally resonates with me – Cap moon-Lilith here plus Sun-Saturn conj in Pisces.
I read somewhere on here that Cap moon is “parent yourself”. That blew me away, a genuine shift.
Keeping the psychic vamps at bay is an absolute must for anyone with watery yin placements.

WaterGemMM Member
WaterGem

Makes me happy to know this is helpful to others as well

LaFemmaMM Member
LaFemma

I have Saturn-Moon conjunct in Scorpio natally, I love your list.

It took me a long time to realize how much I resisted difficult emotions and tried to hide them from others, mindfulness and yoga have helped me a lot. I have Moon-Saturn-Pluto conjunct my midheaven so a huge shift for me was during/after my first Saturn return, realizing my emotions and instincts are an asset at work and not something to be ashamed of.

joolzMM Member
joolz

Saturn, I don’t dare say good-bye but I will say until we meet again and thank you, mostly…. Feel I need to document what’s changed to honor, to seal the muscle memory and to clear the slate: – Became a mother to another multi-Sag, turned 3 yesterday – Watched my biz crumble, rebuild, restart, soar, die off, evolve from power position – damn near had a nervous breakdown with PPD – Entirely new friend group, save the very true core/coeur – Lost most illusions about self – Got my books & invoicing in tip-top shape via bookkeeper pitbull – got… Read more »

PiMM Member
Pi

<3 amazing

LeoniekeMM Member
Leonieke

Good for you Jacqui…

Scorpy
Scorpy

I currently have two part-time / casual jobs. That’s a first and how very Saturn in Cap. I was really happy with the job I already had but wasn’t getting enough hours to pay the bills. With the second job i signed the contract during Merc retro and I completed my first shift yesterday. Hate it already!!! Even though it’s retail i have to dress “corporate”. UGH!!!! I gave all that up back in 2008 when Pluto hit my Asc. I’m and artist and a hippie at heart. I feel so fake and uncomfortable dressing up to look like something… Read more »

PiMM Member
Pi

I reckon you can find a workaround. E.g.: – Switch to black jeans so it almost looks like (cough) “slacks” – Make like Kanye and put on a brand new white tee every day (trash the t shirt at end of each day, also saves laundry effort) – iron all jeans so there is a crease down the front, #booom #icantbelieveitsnotcorporate – wear a Capricorny watch, people will think you’re the manager or something and give you less shit (side note, MM was right when she advised that one wear an expensive watch, to pull a cap moon native in… Read more »

sphinx
sphinx

Hahaha! Love #Ican’tbelieveit’snot corporate. That’s a winner, organic type hipsters need that as a logo somewhere, on something Pi. 😀
Hope it improves Scorpy!
You are making me a tad nervous! Have hired a builder – Pisces no less – applied for funding package for our autistic child and made numerous important money related decisions in the midst of late Sat in Sagg and Mercury Retro. Eek!

I remember when Saturn was on my Asc, could’ve grated cheese with my cheekbones that year!

birdMM Member
bird

“…could’ve grated cheese with my cheekbones that year!”

Lol!!!

You and Pi have made my morning, Sphinx.

veronica
veronica

Have had house roof removed and replaced, electrical system partially rewired *just in the week before merc went retro. It was hair -raising as roof was heavily tarped during some extended rainfall, but all turned out well…so far anyway.

Just had my shed/studio exterior finished by fabulous Cancerian builder. He is so great, totally gets my vision, and also knows exactly how to handle my Leo SO 🙂

I was worried about all this happening during this retro period, but couldn’t be avoided really, and nearly finished now.

veronica
veronica

Aside from computer/electrical glitches, I sometimes think decisions made during merc retro leave room for adjustments later, when a fuller picture emerges. Am natal merc retro tho.

Jobs I have started during merc retro seem to have the lifespan of a year or less

VeronicaMM Member
Veronica

have just had roof and other renovations done in this time period, (last 2 weeks) so far so good…

I went into more detail in another comment an hour ago, but it went to moderation, maybe due to different device?

birdMM Member
bird

Hahaha… This will give me the happies all day today! xx

PiMM Member
Pi

You could also simply channel Pisces and keep ‘forgetting’ the rules. It’s not like you’re showing up in pyjamas (#piscesgoals)
Worst case, they fire you for not wearing enough polyester blend fabrics in muted but slightly jarring hues. Eh *shrugs* consider it an experiment in texture, form and colour…. Hehehe xxx

Scorpy
Scorpy

I got the watch situation sorted. Back in my corporate days i use to treat myself to a new watch every time I got a new job. LOL I wore cool shoes today. I was told they are not acceptable, even though they were metallic navy. Everything has to be black. And we have to wear a blazer at all times. Do you know how expensive they are??? UGH!!! I’m on retail award wage. This job is pissing me off already. Don’t think I’ll last. I’m resenting the insane levels of scrutiny!!! And the extra time it takes to look… Read more »

JacquiMM Member
Jacqui

Saturn is giving me a good crack of his energy and sapping mine, I am burned out!. And so is the hot water system (planned and sorted). But speaking of the past and doorways, I counted 7 houses & moves since 2007 (some at the same time), and mega job change that I always planned for but happen out of the blue with an eclipse wish. And personally the biggest of all, I think, I learned how not to be scared of driving (I have done 80,000km in 18 months…seriously I was scared to drive 50km). Today its hot and… Read more »

JacquiMM Member
Jacqui

Actually what was I thinking this is the 4th hotwater system to sh!t itself. At least this one is in summer and not middle of nowhere -5c winter. 🙂

dark starMM Member
dark star

Mm is the best professor, and this site has totally been my amazing room of requirement, a place of learning, expression and connection. It’s weird, a lot of my peers were in grad school during this time and I did feel spammed from everyone to “level up” “grow up and get a professional degree”
or “have a serious job”. It never felt right. I’m realizing I was just in the school of Saturn in sag learning my own truth

Kym
Kym

This week has been a replay of that Saturn square chriron moment a few weeks or months ago. Deep pain over relationships but when I look at my journalling this week, it has been stark in its assessments of learnings, failings and growth moments. Also that recognising what you can and can’t change is also helpful. So given Saturn is mooving onto a new place, I am not sure a party is n order for me but a few quiet moments to observe the moment might do. Also realise I have recently made some decisions to take me into next… Read more »

A_J_MM Member
A_J_

“My energy was no longer on tap.”

THIS. ^^^^^

JSNOWMM Member
JSNOW

Mystic – you are my favorite professor too!!!! Your work not only has changed my life, but CHANGES my life on the daily in brilliant ways. You give us strength and make us grow. So much love to you!!! xoxoxo

PiMM Member
Pi

So I’ve just re-read the post, and had a realisation, way bigger picture than the 6th house might expect – Of course! If sadge is truth and conviction and living in accordance with what feels right and true for me, and offers a sense of freedom, then definitely I can see how Saturn has rearranged the furniture in my 6th house. It is actually about the rhythms that I choose to live my life. It’s not even about the choices themselves within a certain framework (change yoga class to jogging? Salad sandwich or chips? Should I get up at 6am… Read more »

PiMM Member
Pi

And maybe this was reinforced by the coin-toss that was the Jupiter transit thru my 4 th house. Just adding to the “you know, you could just choose to be happy” thing
I certainly have had trouble doing that but there is a vibe alignment

SoVeryGemini
SoVeryGemini

I love all the comments — when shit hits the fan, I can come here and realise that *some* is me, other parts are what’s going on in the stars and know I’m not alone.
True Node is Cap, so interested to see how the next 3 play out . . .

sphinx
sphinx

My NN in Saggo just had this transit. What house is your NN in? Mine is 7th House, I think it opposed my South Node in the first as much as anything!

Scorpy
Scorpy

Interesting. The conjunction was more painful for me.

Saturn on my natal Saggo south node in 12th. it coincided with Chiron return. Lots of painful karmic stuff. Didn’t really notice the opposition in the 6th

SoVeryGemini
SoVeryGemini

NN in Cap, 7th House as well!

SoVeryGeminiMM Member
SoVeryGemini

NN 8th House Cap. I hope this means I get my sh*t together and earn a buttload of $$$

SyrenaMM Member
Syrena

One of the most helpful things that I’ve done during this whole Saturn Thing has been finding Mystic Medusa. So, I would also like to take a moment to thank you. I’m sure I COULD have endured this nonsense without having my eyes opened to the patterns and cycles of the stars, but I would have felt even more lost. The idea of sacrifice is a good way to put it into perspective. Nearer to the middle of this year, I thoight of it as making a deal with something sinister – the things you love are taken away, but… Read more »

VirgoStellium
VirgoStellium

Yes! The past two years of my life have been utter shit. Discovering astrology and reiki kept me sane and in control. Thank you Mystic for your amazing blog.

babysinclairMM Member
babysinclair

Congrats to all of us Saturn in Sags! Sag Moon, amazing letter on what really does feel like our graduation day and as a fellow member of the class of 2017, I co-sign your recognition of Mystic as our favorite professor. Mystic, thank you so much for “mentoring” me through my Saturn return!! There’s so many ways this could have gone south but having a sense of the factors at play (with a positive yet realistic spin rather than doom and gloom) mixed with inspo for insanely inventive witchy lifehacking has been an indispensable support in molding myself into the… Read more »

GemyogiMM Member
Gemyogi

Yes. Happy Saturnalia xx

gbsMM Member
gbs

I’m not sure if I have this exactly right, but a few years ago (when I was going through the Saturn in Scorpio grind and hanging on to this site like a lifeline) Mystic or someone here said, “With Saturn, you give up something that you value to gain something of greater value.” That’s always stuck with me–even though it’s hard in the giving-up moment to trust that the thing of greater value will actually materialize in the future. And, yes, Mystic has taught me the deeper meanings of Saturn in a way that I’ve never encountered in any other… Read more »

Fire and ice
Fire and ice

The point of sacrifice is sacrifice. Until it is truly done, one cannot truly move on if that is the path. Embrace it,release it, and live not every one does but you will. You are too young to not thrive. And thrive you will.

saturnplutofluxMM Member
saturnplutoflux

So is anyone having a “bye bye Saturn” party? Surely he deserves a ritual send off of some sort? Or us Saggi’s deserve some sort of graduation ceremony. I’m actually going to a bar for the first time in like, a decade, on Thursday – I think I can feel the concrete shoes being chiseled off! (Not to tempt fate or anything…)

saturnplutofluxMM Member
saturnplutoflux

Actually its only been 7 yrs since I last set foot in a bar – may this be an omen for the next 7 lol

PiMM Member
Pi

I’m not sure if the cap moon makes me a bit more emotionally available/ready? for saturn transits but i’ve actually found the transit squaring my sun and on my dsc to have loosened me up. ok so yes 4th house things are still an issue but i’m starting to realise that it could be as much a mindset thing as anything else. i’m finding it easier to say yes to .. happiness? and no to things that don’t bring me a sense of life. so i’m actually less of a career control freak and less of a fitness / task… Read more »

PiMM Member
Pi

i think some of this also relates to my use of the I ching and its concept of the ‘work’ as Tao, and sometimes this ‘work’ being very gentle and incremental (e.g. the “wind” trigrams), extending to the principle of non-action, which might also reference the saturn-friendly idea of conservation of energy

babysinclairMM Member
babysinclair

I am feeling this so much. It sounds like you are Libra/Libra rising? I think that was my big Jupiter – square – Pluto challenge and then Jupiter hit my sun sign and happiness became an easier choice to make regardless – but ONLY because I answered Saturn’s call to figure out and learn how to hold my boundaries which got refined during the Saturn Chiron square. *high five*

PiMM Member
Pi

Wow I hadn’t thought about it like that! That is a really cohesive way to describe the process..
The Saturn Chiron sq ah yes exact on my sun-dsc – not so much a conscious decison but more ‘I literally can’t do or give any more than this’ … ‘This’ being exactly who I was in that given moment
Interesting ..
I’m a Pisces , Libra rules my 4th house and Pluto and node live there..

babysinclairMM Member
babysinclair

Thanks! Gotcha, I misread, my bad! I mixed up the DC with the IC. Mercury retro lol. Makes sense! Yea agreed, it really has been, like, literally I can’t. I’ve been saying that lately too, “I can’t” which I had always thought of as a phrase that takes away your power but I’m learning that if used wisely, conserves your power. Realisitically can’t do everything, can’t be everything, can’t be everywhere. Nope, sorry, I can’t! Saturn realness!

Leo-Scorp GrrrlMM Member
Leo-Scorp Grrrl

I’m Cap moon. Scorp rising, so “can’t” is new to my vocabulary. Your posts hit home. I physically have to say “can’t” right now. I have inexplicable muscle pain and nerve issues that acupuncture and taking care of me are helping to some extent. My intuitive practitioner got a major stress-nerve relationship feel- and other stress-boundary-self worth hits.I am trying to be more kind to myself, as well. My Cap moon is coming to grip with the fact that I can no longer merely work my way through everything. Due to life changes, I am no where near the retirement… Read more »

ChrysalisMM Member
Chrysalis

That is a fab boundary and I wish I had that courage. I have a crap daytime number at the mo but have set myself the goal of being totally debt free before I quit. I can see the end in sight.
Sounds like you’ve aced this and set yourself up properly for the transit through the 7th. I would imagine Saturn could also bring a fabulously suitable lover, well matched in values and perfect for an official good match 🙂 xx

ChrysalisMM Member
Chrysalis

A quote from a former Australian elite athlete I always remember: ‘there are no sacrifices, only choices’. This always struck me as the key to a tough Saturn transit. Saturn presents us with a few very difficult choices, and the choices we make at these harder times shape us into a more authentic self.

All the people I know who’ve had Saturn transits to the moon (conj and squares) have found it brutal. I have Saturn coming up to my moon-Lilith conjunction. I am looking foward to some solitude so I can get merde done.

MissDeeMM Member
MissDee

I have found Saturn opposing my Tauruso Moon (from Scorpio) truly one of the most painful and yes brutal/cruel periods of my life. But not everyone experienced it like that.

Jokerman
Jokerman

Allan Jeans, at the ’75 AFL Grand Final said, “don’t think…do!..do!..do!!!.”. Expanding, what he meant was that you already know the sacrifice…just go out and effect it.

(Aries SN / 9H…loves a sporting metaphor.)

Scorpy
Scorpy

It can be both – a choice AND a sacrifice.
Before i decided to do art school full time I asked myself if I was prepared to be as poor as a church mouse and sacrifice a lifestyle i had become accustomed too while working in the corporate world. It was an easy decision.

That period was Saturn in Scorpio (natal 10th house sun).
So yes, Saturn presented me with some choices. The choice was not difficult but the sacrifices were. Very hard. It was all worth it though.
More authentic than i ever will be 🙂

ChrysalisMM Member
Chrysalis

Yeah this makes sense…
I’m preparing myself to make some hard choices in order to focus on things I want for myself. This is new for me, I would usually put my own wants/needs on the back burner and choose the relationship, no matter what. Perhaps Saturn through my fourth and squaring my sun and asc/dsc for the last aeon has taught me something about self-worth. If I don’t do it now I’m certain I never will.

PiMM Member
Pi

Maybe, if the partner /relationship is right for you (each other) then your own wants and needs are allowed to be very much on the agenda. It is my heartfelt belief that our passions are not negotiable. Why bother living if we feel that we can’t pursue the things, within the bounds of human decency and fairness in a relationship, that bring us happiness?

PiMM Member
Pi

Point being, good luck 🙂

PiMM Member
Pi

My comment makes me sound like I am doing this with ease, but it’s also something I’m figuring out chrysalis x

ChrysalisMM Member
Chrysalis

Nah all good, I got what you were talking about.
The Triple Toro is supportive, in his way. I actually think it’s my mindset – I don’t want to have to give to anyone at the moment. First time in my life I really want to put myself first.

Scorpy
Scorpy

interesting…. sex and a relationship was one of the things i gave up. That was an easy choice too. LOL. I was dating a Cancer guy as Jupiter in Cancer was transiting my 7th. I could have kept him around but nah, he was too annoying. And sex…. pfffft… Nobody ever died from giving that up! It usually comes with strings and entanglements. I didn’t want to deal with emotions and relationship crap while studying something I had longed to do since forever. I guess having a Cap asc (Lilith conjunct) focusing on career is a cinch and as a… Read more »

ChrysalisMM Member
Chrysalis

“I didn’t want to deal with emotions and relationship crap while studying something I had longed to do since forever.” OMG this could be me, thanks for articulating what I have struggled with xx

PiMM Member
Pi

Hey was wondering, is it a cap moon thing to be suspicious of the things that would make us feel fulfilled or simply really truly happy? Or that seem to offer that promise? A trust issue? Core beliefs about having to “work” for joy? Vs. “Oh hey, come on in, all you good things that care about me”
Hmm
Thought bubble..

Scorpy
Scorpy

What house is your Cap moon?

PiMM Member
Pi

I’m happy to do a relationship and whatever else occupies my life, but the guy has to actually be on the same page as me and not grizzle and complain about me studying or whatever! (Ideal guy is studying with me …or bringing tasty snacks haha)

ChrysalisMM Member
Chrysalis

Hahaha yes. The snack thing SO important 🙂
You know, I just realised what it is… it’s the thing we Pisceans can’t explain to other people… that version of me is just finished now. Embarrassingly shallow.

PiMM Member
Pi

It’s ok 🙂

that thing yeah. When you’re just done with an idea, or a theme, or a place. you can’t make your soul stay past closing time. Blessing and a curse? Mutable skill set ? Dunno.

sphinx
sphinx

Recent Saturn transit to the Moon crushed me lower than I thought I would go. :-/ I don’t know that I felt I could choose anything other than meditation. I didn’t, I sort of fell apart instead!

PiMM Member
Pi

Yes this, except substitute other things (in my chart), I don’t know if it’s possible to meditate 12 hours a day? Feels like the minimum dose that would have got us thru

PiMM Member
Pi

And I’m sorry you fell apart a bit 🙁 xo

sphinx
sphinx

Thank you darling

flowerchild
flowerchild

Yep, just had Saturn in Sag transit through my 6th house square to my Pisces Moon in the 9th, in 2016. Really sucked at the beginning, and it’s been hard work, but I’m in such a better and stronger place now. My physical and mental health has improved and I stopped drinking alcohol.

sphinx
sphinx

Been listening psychology podcasts by Jordan Peterson who says to sacrifice now is gain later; giving up something in the moment creates the door of transition through which you become a better person. I’d like to think Saturn is a portal, or the hairbrush of the universe, disentangling the hair you have moulted, still stuck in your furry cat coat. JBP points out we are wired to be aware of things that obsess or draw us in, our hair stands up when we see a thing that is of deep and shining interest. The flag of the nervous system, magical… Read more »

Jokerman
Jokerman

That is mind-blowing amazing Sphinx and to you too Chrys (below). I have, as you know, an accusation of physically abusing a student, which is being handled in a very Un-Magna Carta fashion. Anyway no job, and very little money; yadda bloody yadda. This has happened confluently with a great need by my daughter for help. (An abusive (former) partner, 3 girls; doing it tough). It hit me tonight when she said on the phone to her friend how what has happened to me was/is unjust. But then she said, “dad has been a real big help”. I thought me?… Read more »

sphinx
sphinx

Thanks dude! But I can’t take any credit as I did NOT come up with that (beyond linking to Saturn). Go to the source, I think you would looove Jordan B.P. He would be refreshing for you as a male in the midst of your situation as he speaks to what is going on in the education world and universities, gender politics & post modernism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XvI6Y5Yq8o He’s really into Jung and archetypes, logical, study-based social science and self-help and he is a great historian too. Bit addicted to his podcasts etc. He is Gem with Libra Moon, very into taking… Read more »

sphinx
sphinx

http://selfauthoring.com/ There are free personality tests here, in the context of his lectures I found out a few things about myself that were really cool. Being ‘open’ is a shamanic trait apparently, 😉

Jokerman
Jokerman

I like that it’s sequential. Notsofab on da moneyside atm.

Anthea
Anthea

Jordan Peterson – no thank you. Among his many populist right wing rants, the following one is what stuck out for me is :
“.. women’s unconscious wish for brutal male domination” is the reason he gives as to why feminists in the West aren’t speaking out about Saudi Arabia. He states this in at least 2 of his vids. He reminds me of everything that is scary and odious about the patriarchy.

sphinx
sphinx

Lol, can you imagine if Freud were lecturing today?

Anthea
Anthea

Freud is of his day and had a theory but j petersen poses nothing cept smoke mirrors and contradictions. Just another mercurial conman. Ooh but he sound so smart.

PiMM Member
Pi

‘Cept when he says shit like that. Lol

sphinx
sphinx

Do you have a link on that talk? I am curious about the context of that statement. I can’t say I have found anything he says to be without basis in some deeper thought process or study. I don’t see the labels you ascribe to him fitting but perhaps I am more right wing and shallow in my thinking than I know 😉

Anthea
Anthea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLQnFb1NaDo

(About 6m into it). How he can reduce such a complicated issue to “women’s unconscious wish for brutal male domination” is beyond indecency. This, coming from someone who preaches against reductionism.

He also mentions it here half way through this truly appalling talk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vT86SjrISk

sphinx
sphinx

Thank you Anthea. I am not in the least offended by his statement as I think he is talking about the subconscious which is as indecent a state as any. I think it is quite logical that extremes of emotion usually invite the opposite and equal reaction, it’s a much recognised event in therapy. He himself here says he is playing with off ideas, he isn’t stating a belief but making a conjecture. I find appalling a bit extreme, but I have Moon in Scorpio, lol! The extreme violence of th subconscious is familiar territory to me?

Anthea
Anthea

Quite.

Jokerman
Jokerman

Just spent some time watching them. I was thinking he must have some Uran going on.

Jokerman
Jokerman

I’ve listened more to him and he is strident which l don’t mind; he has conviction. However he does have a lot of right-wing rhetoric which l don’t like. His encouragement to take ownership is good. His lack of compassion towards ppl of differing views is difficult to understand.

I didn’t see anything on education or academia.

flowerchild
flowerchild

I love this, sphinx! Thank you! So much food for thought…..this expands beyond even the concept of delayed gratification because I think the quality of the gratification is transformed and better. I was reading something about how dopamine governs pleasure and serotonin governs happiness/satisfaction/satiety and that was so illuminating how the brain deals with these two things. It also was illuminating regarding how we ‘chase’ certain things, people, etc. thinking we’ll get real happiness but really we’re just getting little hits of pleasure and that’s why we are compelled to keep chasing, because we’re never truly satisfied because we’re only… Read more »

GemyogiMM Member
Gemyogi

Wow great insights here… I’ve definitely been a dopamine and seratonin junkie… now reformed 🙂

Scorpy
Scorpy

So true Flowerchild. And why so many relationships fail. Everyone’s chasing “chemistry” and lust / sex / romance is such a potent cocktail.

Happiness is just one swipe away. *rolls eyes*
Love is a Drug. Indeed!

From now on I’m going to try and focus on VALUES instead of chemistry. How saturn in Cap is that!!

ChrysalisMM Member
Chrysalis

I reckon values are the new chemistry. I’ve had Neptune on my Venus then my sun for about seven years – chemistry has been no problem 🙂 but a match of values has proven far more difficult to find. Pluto on my moon-Lilith along with Saturn through my huge fourth house has made sure that values are now front and centre.

sphinx
sphinx

It’s interesting isn’t it! Love how JP explains that introverted people, people without goals or a coherent personal philosophy are going to experience negative emotion.
It’s Saturn, right? Coherence, structure? I like that Saturn is the guy who gives those things, so we think he’s a big a-hole, but actually he is giving us happines.. because when things are ‘optimally regulated’, we start pursuing goals and the side effect of that pursuit is.. happiness!
Chasing a drug, person etc. isn’t a goal, it’s insanity and chaos and the side effect of that is definitely unhappiness. Cheers to you too, 😉

dark starMM Member
dark star

WhoAAA this hairbrush metaphor is next level Sphinx!
I think we do get to choose but it’s totally a Saturn nudge like a shepherd cane

sphinx
sphinx

Haha, ok that is all my own, lol. But hair IS an extension of the nervous right? Like how native americans kept their hair long for sensing in tracking? Apparently the brain interprets what the hair follicle experiences. I reckon Saturn’s Hair Brush is like having your dad comb your hair, sometimes you lose hair that was attached to your darn head!!

Clavdia C
Clavdia C

Amazing metaphor indeed. Love it.

There is lots about hair as self—Samson! The tragic Greek women were always braiding their hair before something awful happened.

I’m not sure that we get to choose, or it’s like we have a number of options and we can focus on what we want to focus on. Like I kept thinking I should focus on cleaning out my house but I preferred to clear out the mental junk that kept me from writing more bravely.

Now that Saturn is opposite my natal Saturn in the 7th we will see what gets cleared out.

GemyogiMM Member
Gemyogi

Omg this reminds me so much of the scene in Withnail and I when Danny the drug dealer is talking about hair — hair is your antenna receiving signals from the cosmos, which is the reason why bald men are so uptight — hilarious

Scorpy
Scorpy

LOL!!
Best movie ever.
Developed a huge crush on Richard E Grant around that time.

Met him once and got his autograph back in early 90s. He was shopping in my area.
He was lovely. :))

ChrysalisMM Member
Chrysalis

I’m on board with hairbrush. Love it.

ScorpintheSky
ScorpintheSky

Thanks for recommending Jordan Peterson Sphinx. I have been searching for an expert on meaning as I believe I should incorporate that into my future profession. He seems pretty solid and I will listen to the podcast.

A witch I have seen previously always says “Pay attention to envy” which I think has a similar meaning/affect. Your subconscious is grabbing you by the shoulders saying “Here! Look here”.

sphinx
sphinx

JP’s helped me a lot. I wanted to study psychology but ended up doing history and I would have eaten the ideas he talks about for breakfast as a student.

Always liked the Castaneda quote which I held in my mind in my early 20’s as a key to understanding:
“Beware feelings of uniqueness and power”.
It’s a heads up for noting narcissists, but also a inner compass for yourself. I avoided some bad people and bad behaviour of my own on that advice over the years!

flowerchild
flowerchild

Just serendipitously came across this Rumi tonight: ”Longing is the core of mystery. Longing itself brings the cure. The only rule is, suffer the pain. Your desires must be disciplined And what you want to happen in time, sacrificed.” ~Rumi Seemed fitting to this blog and discussion.. Also, was re-reading what you wrote, sphinx, and that last sentence — with Saturn do we get to choose? It doesn’t *feel* like we do, but can’t be sure. It feels like something gets presented that you can’t ignore and if we get to choose anything in the situation, I guess it would… Read more »

sphinx
sphinx

Yes, we really only can control our response, after Saturn on my Moon passed it was like reviewing damage after a cyclone though. Some important people in my life were damaged during that time, it was hard to see the upside of that. But maybe we are so blind to the weight of the preciousssss treasures we are holding, which include our dependence, our IDEAS, our world view – not just people or possessions – we don’t see how they weigh us down? Man, it feels out of control to lose them under Saturn. Maybe controlled chaos is a good… Read more »

flowerchild
flowerchild

Saturn on moon, ugh, that’s gotta hurt! I don’t know that we can always readily find an upside.. I had Saturn squaring my Pisces moon last year, and that didn’t feel too good either, but a lot of people were purged from my life that needed to be. I feel peace, even though some sadness. Funny, I just read another article today that echoes what you’re saying….it was on end of year de-cluttering and it was also reminding us that clutter, or things that can weigh us down can be more on the energetic level, like beliefs that don’t serve… Read more »

sphinx
sphinx

That’s really cool, I haven’t much appreciated the symbols of the zodiac or delved into it much. I have read some mad magical language some have obsessed over made from them.

Saturn is opposite my Mercury to the degree nearly right now, I am trying to be careful with my output and appreciate the gravity of words. 😉 They word creates stuff too, even the loom on which we create language has it’s structure in our brain.

flowerchild
flowerchild

“word creates stuff too, even the loom on which we create language has it’s structure in our brain.”
Cool!…..I like how you described that!

I think words are entities too. Wasn’t it on this blog somewhere either MM or a member talked about ‘spelling’, like, spelling a word, but that words are spells…..they are powerful! So it is important to be mindful with our thoughts and speech, starting with kindness for ourselves. As you say, words weave our reality.

MissDeeMM Member
MissDee

“With Saturn rolling through the fire sign of truth and conviction, this makes perfect sense to me. What is the point of sacrifice if you don’t build something better?”

This is what I have been asking myself.

With Saturn, I’ve only known the sacrifices.
I’ve going on and on with the “shedding own skin process” and the throw away the old, the vampires, the delusions” and have diligently done so.

When can one assume to be knowing the blossom of new things, the thriving, the new adventures?

NotMuggle
NotMuggle

Ermm well I wouldn’t say amazing lessons more like painful because I didn’t think I had options other than respond to the market and take up job that used narrow skillset for bills and stability having just come back to Oz 2 yrs ago. For that i got tennis elbows which saw my health deteriorated that I am now slowly getting back my physical self. So right about living authentically which I am now more determined than ever as my life depends on it. Lessons have to be the hard for them to sink in otherwise we wouldn’t respect them.… Read more »

Lux Interior Is My Co-PilotMM Member
Lux Interior Is My Co-Pilot

Oh, many of them were painful as fuq too!

Lux Interior Is My Co-PilotMM Member
Lux Interior Is My Co-Pilot

Saturn on Saggo Moon over here too! Bless you fellow traveller.

I think I definitely learned to be more authentic and to speak up during this transit.

The Lessons have been amazing.

Kat
Kat

Should I be concerned being a Capricorn rising about Saturn’s arrival in Capricorn?
I am hoping Uranus into my sun sign Taurus will help balance things out, aided by my Libra moon.

Saggi CrabMM Member
Saggi Crab

Saggi sun here coming out of a long Saturn transit (Saturn return in Scorp, followed by Saturn in my Sun sign of Saggi). I feel like I’m literally emerging from the trenches this week.

You don’t need to be concerned about Saturn. Just be real and honest and kind to yourself.

GemyogiMM Member
Gemyogi

What a beautiful letter. Thank you Sagittarius Moon for writing it and thanks Mystic for sharing it. I wholeheartedly agree with you about this precious community. Thank goddess.

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