Scorped Up But Not Harveyed

Filed in Astro-Passages

Ain’t no ambiguity about this Jupiter. Jupiter – the Galaxy King – in Scorpio – constellation of the Phoenix, the Witch – this is the Via Combusta – the Scorpion, Sex, Wealth and Power – is a depth tripper.

The Weekly Horoscopes – from October 14 are posted – with more.

And, well how apt for Jupiter in depth-tripping Scorpio is it that the current tabloid sleaze-fest/feminist victory has prompted SO many of us to discuss or think about when and how we were Harveyed.  How long before “harvey” is in official verb? I used to think it was normal to be harvied – it seemed extra prevalent in film, advertising and television circles when i was 18 to 22, the peak age to be harvied.  And for ages i thought it was something strange about me that attracted it. THIS is why it is so important that people such as (in the latest example) Cara Delevingne talk about it. So people in the current target market to be harvied don’t get the impression it’s normal.

There IS a discussion re this on the Astro School and my quick takes on the charts of Harvey Weinstein AND Donna Karan are also there. (Astro-School has evolved into more like a library with hundreds of how-tos for the aspiring astro-fiend and lifetime access to it is now included in the longer 24 month Mega Mystic memberships.)

But something that is occurring to me now is that the current cultural discussion moment is very Lilith trine Uranus. Lilith is super-feminist energy, always, the rebel feminine archetype who defines herself without reference to or regard for patriarchal norms AND Uranus is always up for the stripping back/rolling over of clapped out conventional crap.

Thoughts?

Image: Paco Rabanne

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64 thoughts on “Scorped Up But Not Harveyed

  1. I’ve been harveyed. Coming out of the surf as a thirteen year old girl. Applying for a job and getting to second interview to be locked in an office with everyone knowing their role to get me in there but me having to figure out quickly what was going on and work smart to get myself outta there. Great term, Mystic. Going to write a column on this. Thanks xx

  2. I got Harvied for the first time aged 17 in a meeting with an ad exec who said he was unable to give me the job i had applied for but would love to hear my ideas as admired my creativity and thought he might have something bigger available for me. So cue me spending all WEEK trying to come up with cool concepts to impress him.

    I think to count as a harveying you have to think you’re going to meet in a work context and then the harvey lets rip with the coercion and assault tactics. It is actually really healing to think about past harveying within a current cultural context and to project the disapproval and solidarity from all these people now back onto our past selves i think.

    i remember most of all my CONFUSION with this guy. I did not understand why he kept trying to touch me – i mean i got that he wanted sex/intimacy but i felt like i was signaling and saying i was not interested SO strongly…And that i admired where he was professionally and was really interested in hearing about how got into the industry when he “was my age” and what did he think of my ideas and so on.

    Do harveys ever realize – apart from all the rest of it – how much cognitive dissonance they cause?

    • Yes. They do realise.
      I was harveyed at 30. I applied for a role in a well known blue chip corporate headhunter. The true headhunting. I moved back to my home state in part to be with a man I had fallen in love with. Anyway first day in new job the partner explained to me how this was all gling to work. He would be spending a few days each week in this office, the rest back in the main Oz headoffice and I was to be his companion in the evening, as well as doing the day job.
      I remember going home to my female friend who was kindly outting me up wh6ole I found a place and relayed the conversation.
      I remember how my heart sunk at the thought.
      However I also chose to be a part of it. This was a bad choice for me because emotional complexity just sends me into a spin. It just spiraled into more crazy behaviour until I ended up at the Doctors after 18 months and explained how fried I was feeling. Dr said take a month to decide but at the end of that month make a decision:stay or go. I left. It was a relief…but it took a few years to really recover from it.
      So Harveying is complex for women as we don’t all say no to it. Perhaps what I am describing isn’t straight Harveying but maybe Harveying in the piked position, with a couple of twists thrown in.

    • Your last sentence. It’s what they feed off. Imho. Predatory behaviour. Beyond that they either don’t care or derive one of their innumerable power trips off it.

    • Harvey’s don’t care. They feed off of it. They love that moment of power. Our vulnerability. Our shock. Confusion. Defeat.

    • And the other thing. Those who don’t plot and prey, have that weird mental empty void that should otherwise be occupied by a “women are sovereign individuals and are to be treated as I want to he treated” that doesn’t exist for them. Women to them are play-things whose own preferences or requirements are of as much interest to them as a cicada chirping or a fly buzzing: I.e. you don’t even count. You’re nothing. Once you stop looking fuqable or behaving in a pleasing way then you might as well be dead to them. And these are the people who historically controlled the media image of women and girls.

      • AND when a paradigm does not inherently accommodate/give space to a woman who is entirely her own person *and is seen to be so*, then women attempting to carve out that role for themselves are condemned in various subtle or not so subtle ways, and in parallel, because it is not a norm, we are less likely to absorb from a young age all the behavioural and linguistic codes of self possession (or some version of this). Imho this is why the whole “why didn’t she just do / say Xyz??” Is inherently unfair, because for so many of us it is a blind spot. Until it isn’t.
        Uurrgghh i have to get off the internet now, Lilith is on my dsc and all my inner war gods are stirring rarrgh lol

        • Lilith is transitting my 1st house and i feel the same, Pi. This topic has really got my blood up. Not in trigger-happy war mode but something deep, cold and clear-eyed. Still it’s not comfortable sitting with it. Have to take a break from it myself.

          You know, i think it’s because it’s the type of injustice we all live with in some way, the whole time. It has just been there, and in trying to live around it we have often got ourselves into pretzels of self-doubt, self-bonsai, closed off options that are too draining to deal with.

          Take gentle care for a bit, Pi. And everyone who needs. Am about to do the same.

      • Yes, Pi! And the shame-guilt of feeling complicit if you did not pull out a knife at every turn and say back the f– off.

        Because men who make money are allowed to indulge sex whims until it costs the corporation- more than said man is worth.

    • harveys are ubiquitous in the hospitality industry.
      My first kitchen work was at 18 and I lost a promotion because I wouldn’t have sex with the head chef, apparently that was the interview. Another girl got the promotion because she did. He would still try it on and lock me in the cool room with him, he didn’t get rejection at all. It was intensely awkward when his wife and two kids would drop by to see him.

      All but one job in the industry have involved harveys.

  3. Harveys, Harveys everywhere…! The “Baby, I’ll make you a STAR” line, whispered with a breath smelling of alcohol and tobacco, every girl must have heard it by now. And felt those sweaty, curious hands. It must be our eyes still full of dreams, that makes them believe they have a chance.

    I would actually lower the age for harveying to 16, at least. Even lower, for the really low Harveys. It’s so sad, and I would be lying if I’d say that I have not met more than my fair share of Harveys in my teenage years (natal Mars square Pluto). But we survive, anyway. We learn. We grow stronger.

    A few years ago I met one of my old Harveys again, in traffic. He was a photographer, who happened to be a “family friend” at the time, and who had told me over and over, that he would “make me famous”.

    Back in the day, he tried to first seduce my older sister, then me. I was 14 at the time.

    But- quelle surprise!- when I met him again, after almost two decades, I would have barely recognized the man. All his hair, gone! And such a bitter, little man he became, driving a shitty little car…

    Apparently, his life turned out a disappointment. He asked about my sister, and tried the same old line with me again, patronizingly asking me if he could “help me” with my career, but I laughed it off and got into my brand new SUV.

    This felt so incredibly empowering for me. All those Harveys. You grow stronger with every sleazy comment, and they grow old , fat and feeble.
    Serves them right.

  4. I’ve been Harvied in every job I’ve had, since I started working at 15 years. I’m too friendly and very petite. Somehow men take my generalised friendliness, ignore the fact that I treat everyone the same as them, think I’m interested in them only and have a crack. Horse blinders. I don’t take much nonsense though, so they soon learn not to keep it up.

    My mother too. I remember one day she came home from a job interview for a small company where the owner said she could have the job if she would have sex with him.

    • same here, petite and very young looking so I attracted creepy pedophiles and still do. ugh…
      why do these guys exist? why so many of them?

  5. Yep, as a woman of a certain age i’ve been harvied heaps. It is important to remember that women are the prey here yet we feel complicit and perhaps contributing in some way which is crap. I feel strongly about this because as a pretty young thing you are made to feel that your very existence is the catalyst for the behaviour of men. Personally I believe that men are not animals, they are human beings who have control of their impulses and actions and these sub humans need to be outed for their narcissistic behaviour. There is a real freedom in getting older and not having sex define your every encounter, where your talents define you without a judgement (and I count women in this) that you are where you are because of how you look. Very positive development that this dark slime is being dragged out into the sunlight and giving rise to all the discussion about what is acceptable behaviour.

    • But the Hollywood machine- and many other men who made millions looking the other way, enabling feeding this disgusting beast.

      • and the music industry. I’ve been harassed by male and female R&A reps and a label owner.
        When I turned her down she tried to blacklist me. Same old crap over & over again.

  6. I’ve been Harveyed. Fresh out of college and dying to get some film experience under my belt. Met an indie film director and in my naïveté was not cautious enough with him. He took advantage of my being under the influence one evening(insisted for a spontaneous “work” meetup) and things went a lot further than I would ever have wanted. It wasn’t until the next day I realized what happened. This was with a Gemini. I was way too young/naive and unsupported(no supportive friends or family) to know what to do about it at the time. I was lucky nothing negative came of that, counted my blessings, and let it go.

    I also had a very traumatic experience last year with a man who took advantage of me in a predatory way. He played on my trust and that of a friend so subtly and only in hindsight was it apparent the very intricate ways he built his trap. This was a Pisces and this one I am considering taking to court.

  7. Harveyed indeed, the second time i was not so slow to cotton on and walked away from this much older familiy friend who put the hard word on me. Then I turned right around stomped up to him and said if i heard you right you want to f a 15 yo? Well mister you just better get the f out of our house because if i tell my dad he’s gonna beat the crap out of you. Youv’e got 10 minutes to make your excuses and dont EVER come back. The dragon had woken. And she occasional stirs from her slumber.

  8. What strikes me is how engrossed I have been in all the reporting of this open secret and how differently it’s being treated to such behaviour in past cases … there hasn’t been a lot of victim blaming or doubt cast on them. But there has been guilt on the part of the victims for something that was in no way their fault and for feeling like they lacked strength or let others down by not coming forward.
    It hits so many nerves on many levels in terms of what women’s place is expected to be in today’s world. And an expectation of us being powerless.

    If being victimised is being harveyed then I wonder who’s name we can use as a reference for when we fight back.

  9. My younger self was too stupid to know if it was being Harvied or not. Like it would think perhaps a person would be interested if i put in a little more work, but then i was like..too hard…give up. Nama-stay my rump right here.
    Hard to say for me.

  10. *sighs*

    This absolutely disgusts me – I’d like to take a knife and personally cut the balls off every SOB who engages in this kind of behavior. It is a cancerous epidemic not confined to just Hollyweird – we even have a sitting president who bragged about sexually assaulting women and then blows it off as “locker room talk”. Bullshit, buddy – you’re a fuqing predator! Not only is it disgusting by itself, the worst part about it is this normalizes a mentality that is in fact severely dysfunctional. Beside the specifics of being “harveyed” where men entice women closer with the prospect of career or academic advancement before springing their trap, I think this phenomenon also speaks to broader, more far-reaching problems in general regarding men’s overall attitudes toward women.

    I’m fairly Plutonic with a good hit of Venus/Pluto and have attracted creep behavior from the opposite sex since I was a teen. I was sexually assaulted by a much older man at age 15, a hair’s breadth away from being physically abducted and raped by a middle-aged stranger at 16, told by my boss at 17 that he hired me because he wanted “a pretty face behind the counter”, sleazed and slimed on by countless older guys trying to get with me from my late teens on up, had a way older co-worker in my 20’s call me up (I hadn’t given him my number; work had circulated a list w/ everyone’s contact info in case we had questions for each other) and scam on me even though he was a good 15 years my senior – the litany of inappropriate sexual behavior I’ve experienced from men goes on and on. I am caustic, though; pure battery acid when I need to be to repel this kind of shit, thank Pluto. I may look like a tasty morsel, but try to prey upon me and you’ll find I emit a toxic substance that will make you regret that decision immediately.

    Beyond revolted by Weinstein and those of his ilk; the Woody Allens and James Woodses et al of the world. I see the BML trine to Uranus but the fact that it’s a wound – a chronic illness – within the film industry is totes the square to Chiron in Pisces, IMO. Prayers of healing to all of his victims; may it ache a little less each day and may they find strength in each other <3

  11. Also, re: Donna Karan – Anthony Bourdain had the best comeback to her statement:

    “How many seventeen year olds have you dressed like they are, in your words, ‘asking for it’?

    FU, Donna – I hope your empire burns!

      • The attitude expressed by DK (& others) galls me – do you know what I was wearing when I was 16 and a strange man in a pickup truck repeatedly rolled up to me on a walk home one fall evening and told me to come closer/get in? When he went so far as to circle menacingly around the block again and again and chase me down despite my telling him no? Jeans, brown hiking boots, and my then-boyfriend’s navy zip-up hoodie – I was about as covered up as I could possibly get short of wearing a burqa.

        We spend more time, energy, and money preaching at women re: how to avoid being sexually assaulted vs. instilling the morals and values in our young men that teach them sexually assaulting women is wrong – it’s a seriously fuqing warped paradigm. The dysfunctionally entrenched POV/belief that women somehow “ask for it” or that they are objects existing solely for male pleasure absolutely sickens me and I will rail against this every chance I get. #FuqPatriarchy

        • This!!

          I’ve been Harvey-ed since I was 12 years old and the men never managed to break my spirit. But the women… oh god the women… and their “she was asking for it/ lying/ trying to steal my boyfriend, etc. etc.” that was when I gave up.

          Because being myself was just too dangerous.

          And that low self-esteem and repression led down some terrible paths. Like an emotional abusive ex-boyfriend.

          • same. The insults and accusations from other women nearly broke me. I have severe trust issues with women now.

        • Have experienced the same countless times. The fact is that there are tons of women and girls in the sex industry (hookers) walking around dressed plainly, you wouldn’t think it to look at them. Some of the men who pick up those girls/women really DO get stuck on one individual, hence the freaky temporary obsession. You’re not a person to them, just some object of desire/fascination. You’d be surprised. It feels like contracting a disease when one of them trails you when you’re out and about.

    • I had to google to find the Donna Karan quotes as I was unaware. And now PR people scrambling with bs “ out of context” and “ misquoted “ come back.

      Harvey trying to downplay it all as “ a mistake” like it was all a singular event and now playing victim.youve been called out champ. No pity here. You had none.

      Anthony is fantastic.

      • Yes i was initially more stunned by that than the Harvey crimes – just as it seemed so odd for the creator of such an iconic female brand to be even thinking like that, let alone saying it in an on air interview. I did a post on it on Astro School

  12. Not “Harveyed” as I’ve been blessed by supportive women in my career versus men, I think I gravitated to women and men I deemed safe thanks to growing up hyper-aware of men who were not safe. Like most women I’ve gotten unwanted attention from men since I was 13 and growing up in a big city had to develop protective mechanisms like baggy clothes, sunglasses, books but growing older (and thus less of an easy target for these creeps) is the only thing that really helps.

    I was assaulted by a man I worked with as a teenager. He was several years older, befriended me when I was growing through a breakup with my on/off high school boyfriend, and pulled the same moves as Harvey (setting up a meeting under false pretenses, changing the plan to get me alone). It’s really quite cunning what these men do, they know what works and they do it over and over again. This was years ago and I’m still mad at myself for falling for it, especially as another young woman at work warned me about him, but I thought I could handle myself.

    Warning each other is helpful but ultimately it’s up to the perpetrator to not be an awful person. It makes me sad that these women who do come forward are criticized for being self-serving when they just want these men to stop being awful, and would prefer not to hurt them or their families, as I’ve been through the same range of reactions and catch-22’s on a smaller scale.

  13. One benefit of aging: no more Harveys.

    Highly recommend the GIRLS episode with Matthew Rhys. Does an amazing job of portraying the bizarre dynamics of powerful, manipulative men and younger women.

    • V true…was talking to one of my lady mentors about it. What I liked to was the total complexity of it all and yeah the cognitive dissonance. His character was repelling but also weirdly sympathetic and it was interesting to see Hannah walk through it

  14. I was just talking to my MIL about this –

    Wounds that I thought had healed from Harvey experiences have been reopened, that feeling of such disgust for yourself + shame, “what did I do to deserve this? It’s my fault, I wore a low cut top, was flirty…”

    Been Harveyed many many times, thought it was just part of being female up until a few years ago –

  15. First Haveyed at the age of 14 at a part time job.

    Being Haveyed now at the age of 44, the times in-between are too numerous to mention.

  16. Was assulted at 9 riding bike home from school..had my hair done in curls and felt “extra-pretty”that day..took a long time to figure out it wasn’t my fault .

    • Oh, dear Pearl.. this comment jumped off the page as I logged in and I have a 9 year old. Breaks my heart for your 9 year old pearl inside, bless her.

    • Yes me at 5 and for a long time i thought i must have some sort of “thing” about me. If anything comes out of all this, it will be that the voice of women and men with major profile and in a social media era transmits SUCH a strong “it’s not your fault” message that young people who would normally be more vulnerable will get it loud and clear.

  17. Interesting to look at the collective consciousness in this situation now as opposed to even a year or two ago with Kesha and that producer. As much as the news cycle is depressing I feel like the needle is going to a new standard of how women are treated- I think people are vehement now after their eyes were opened to how men in power operate and behave (Trump). Boundaries are being drawn. I’ve never been Harvied per se but I always think about my moms first interview right out of college in 1980 at IBM…including the question “if a client wanted to sleep with you would you say yes”? She said no and got passed over, of course.

  18. I’ve been looking at Rose McGowan’s chart since she has been key to unmasking this sleaze. She has Venus conjunct Uranus, opposite Chiron, and Lilith on the North Node, opposite Saturn and square Pluto.

    She just tweeted this:

    “To all of us who have been hurt and silenced #RISE #ROSEARMY is here and our voices are mighty”

    The patriarchy has been lashing out like hell lately. It’s about time for Lilith to show up and hit back.

    • You don’t fuck with Venus/Uranus/Chiron. We will go down with the ship if it’s for the greater good. Has lost me many a job but made a lot of positive changes in workplaces (that I never got to enjoy).

  19. Countless times in countless ways.. Fired from one job as a waitress because I was a bet that failed.

    Because of the barbaric male energy I have encountered I distrust the male species in general, but have high regard for the few who display the King of Swords characteristics I admire.

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