Is having natal Saturn in the 4th house somehow bad? Mystic advises a new mother who’s worried her newborn baby has this placement. Summary: It’s fine!
Dear Mystic,
I am pretty embarrassed to be sending you this email, as I know you receive tons of emails from people having astro freakouts, but I just had a baby (2 weeks ago) and I am v hormonal so please be gentle with me.
Ok, so I obviously looked up my daughter’s chart and she has Saturn in the 4th house. Now I’m freaking out that this means that either my partner or I am going to die while she’s young! Is this placement a parental death sentence? Googling it gave mixed reviews but it was definitely my first thought. Or does it mean that her home life is adverse? That is another definition I saw.
I would really appreciate any insight into this placement.
Thanks always,
So Mutable it Hurts
Dear So Mutable It Hurts,
Congratulations on your baby! And yes, hormones can be hell. Get yourself a good practitioner for herbs, acupuncture, support, nutrition, the Everything. As for the little girl’s astrology, Saturn in the 4th is a non-issue.
FYI, this is the delineation for it from my Astral DNA Instant Birth Chart Report.
Saturn in The Fourth House
Some 4th House Saturn people look at evidently contented families and think “Stockholm syndrome.” Or else they look away. Saturn at the ‘root’ sector of your birth chart can indicate a harsh but effective early schooling in the less salubrious side of human nature. Then again, you could have been raised in a tightly calibrated, high-strung household where you had to practice violin every day without fail, and your parents were remote. Whatever went down, you can be super tetchy about your family, childhood home, ancestors, and lineage.
In some happy cases, this placement reflects a sagacious Saturn influence, in which case you would have been guided by wise elders and/or enjoyed the tutelage of a true sage, a high Saturn type. The French pianist and wolf scholar/conservationist (she studies, rescues, and raises them) Helene Grimaud is an interesting example of Haute Saturn in the 4th House. She describes her childhood as “agitated,” had poorly understood synesthesia, and began professional-focus piano lessons from the age of nine.
Real estate in any form can seem like more of a burden to you than it possibly is, or you could be vexed by paucity consciousness and an unwillingness to ‘put yourself forward’ when it comes to securing your haven. Think about this – your Saturn house is the one that starts shadowed or tarnished, but with effort (grind and humility are the only factors known to work with Saturn), you make it gleaming.
As you can see, it can manifest in various fashions. Googling planetary placements can take you to some very strange places. For a start, some people project their personal issues into interpretations or are unnecessarily fatalistic.
And, a single planetary placement delineation is, by necessity, out of context. Unavoidably, you end up with massively conflicting statements. Take me: My Mars-Pluto in the 8th House would be interpreted as “you are a vicious sociopath who should be under 24-hour police watch” or gloomy warnings about sexual manipulations and dark desires. Then my Venus Neptune trine would talk of my “sweet little innocent naive nature that was so easily ensnared by unscrupulous people.” I am paraphrasing but you get the idea.
And some people – many people – cannot actually write about Saturn or Pluto without losing their composure. Or they go off medieval astrology. Yes, in the Dark Ages Saturn in the 4th would probably indicate something dire and I am quite sure Saturn in the 9th would see you packed off to the Crusades with a bloody pitchfork. Saturn in the 12th? Maybe you lived in some hell-hole of a nunnery?
Saturn in the 4th can often mean your parents are Saturnine in their education and schooling of you. You get educated, your teeth get sorted and you can sing, ride, ski or whatever else your parents deem appropriate. Or that you come from an illustrious, Saturn-style family.
Some examples of Saturn in the 4th: Gwyneth Paltrow, Lorde, Harry Styles, Emma Watson.
You could be proactive about it and see your girl’s Saturn as her thriving with structure around her. And remember, most of all, you cannot just pick one astro-factor in isolation to freak out about.
What does everyone else think?
Image: Jim Buckels – Druid Point
My parther has saturn in the 4th – both parents going strong in their sixties. The saturn came out as his mother being a cold narcissistic bitch (leo sign). Conversely has made a carreer as a painter working at home which is another expression of this. There are many ways a placement can manifest!
I completely relate to your fears, when my daughter was born with a loaded 8th with harsh aspects with pluto uranus and saturn I was convinced she was going to be abducted raped and murdered. Two separate psychics have told me that she is infact going to be super strong, always on a mission and with a good head on her shoulders. Talk about relief.
Some things that have helped me with my fears and paranioa has been flower essences: Bach mimulus and red chesnut, as well as Australian Bush flower essences Grey Spider Flower. Follow the directions and you will feel so much better in days!
Also watch for signs of postnatal depression and anxiety. A symptom of anxiety is expecting something really bad to happen, or a sense of impending doom. I wish I knew that earlier.
And yes, as someone else said, put down that chart! I have had to with my daughter and it has been for the best.
Love and light
My (young) son has moon in 4th house Sagittarius. Saturn of course has been transiting and this has played out as me being physically and psychologically unavailable to him due to my having significant health issues.
Intuition says Saturn in 4th avec Sag long philosophical journey with parents and the ‘death’ of the concept of nuclear/trad parentage towards the realisation of timeless karmic connection… it’s a portal involving dissolution of 3rd dimension concepts of relationships, dissolution of this idea of responsibility to the elder/superior which our society has ingrained, which keeps us from knowing our own sovereignty….
Lots of great variety here. You really can’t just look at one thing.
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I have Sag Saturn in the 6th, square Virgo Moon conj. IC. Lost a parent when I was five.
And my brother’s Saturn conj. IC…
My husband has a Libra Saturn in the 4th. He is approaching 40 and still has both parents. He came from a home with a strong work ethic. He helped run family businesses growing up and his dad was very focused on making sure he would be able to go to whatever college was best for his life (my husband paid for his own tuition but his dad paid for his housing). Despite being a lower, middle class family from a tiny town, my husband ended up at an out-of-state (expensive by comparison) school that specialized in the field he wanted to be in which gave him more opportunities than if he had gone to the closest or least expensive school like most of his peers. I think the 4th house Saturn can be what Mystic said, directed toward education and/or facilitating your child to be able to maximize their potential career or life path.
Thank you MM for your kind and generous answer! And thank you all so much for your messages of support. I am truly touched by the kindness of this community! I feel a lot better now and am overwhelmed with happiness and hope for this new, beautiful life.
((((Hugs))))
my birthday always came up in books as ” has potential for great good or great evil”.
I’ve managed to stay in the Aquarians grey man zone.
Congratulations on the little one. catch sleep where you can. Nourish your body when you can. And don’t fret. This little person you’ve made has all the potential for wonderful.
Agreed MM. I have twins. They have some common personality traits, but so freaking different! Tons!
So much unknown at this time for you! Who is this baby? How to parent this amazing girl best? Will she approve of how you do with her Saturn in the 4th? Lol, it’s intense.
Congratulations on your no doubt beautiful girl!!
If it helps, I have weird Pluto/Uranus in the 4th and I still care for my parents and now even live in the same town. 😉 Sometimes the planets just gotta fall somewhere!
Relax and just be the best parent you can be.
To me the interesting thing is how 2 siblings who grow up in the same environment with the same parents can describe their upbringing in so different a way. One sees the bright side, one the dark. None of us are perfect parents and whether you like it or not the way your children see your efforts is ultimately up to them.
My father had Saturn in the 4th and both of his parents lived into their 90s. He also created a wonderful structured, but loving home. Not structured like, “clean your mud boots with a toothbrush”, just stable. Cohesive.
Congratulations on the baby! Those first few months are the best of times, “blurst” of times. Keep drinking water Mutable and enjoy your little Leo!
I lost both my parents when I was 9 years old. I have Saturn conjunct Mars in Virgo 6th house.
I liked what MM said, you can’t just pick out one astro-factor, it’s the whole picture.
Fret not; as everyone else is saying there are many ways this energy can manifest. I don’t know if you are solo-parenting or not, but sometimes Saturn in the 4th or Moon in the 10th can also express as having a parent who fulfilled both roles, which is an increasingly common scenario with single-parent households becoming more the norm. Rather than fixate on this placement (which is completely understandable as having a child is a huge responsibility and it’s natural to be a little afraid; you must also remember the process of becoming a parent is by its very nature a Saturn issue), try to open you mind so as not to operate from a fear-based perspective. Yes, be aware of potential challenges in the chart as your child might experience them in relation to you, but Saturn in the 4th can also be a parent who is the child’s “rock”; that steady, reliable place to tether to when the rest world seems topsy-turvy. You are scaring yourself needlessly here, so please take a deep breath.
As has already been stated, nothing in the nativity operates in a vacuum – you have to synthesize to get greater context. There is so much to consider when trying to understand an individual’s subjective experience of their parents via their nativity. We look at the Sun, Moon, and Saturn (not just their sign and house placements but their aspects), 4th & 10th houses and their rulers, the IC/MC axis; etc…plucking one placement out of the air and putting it under a microscope can be extremely misleading; especially if/when the rest of the chart doesn’t particularly support that interpretation. In cooking, we use more than one seasoning to bring out the flavors of a dish; the nativity is much the same in that it is a combination of elements. Sure you can focus on just one component, but it may be only a minor note in the overall taste when all is said and done.
P.S.: My ex lost his mother at age 5 – he *does not* have Saturn in the 4th.
Also re Lorde–her poet parents def seemed to influence her work, yes?
I, in fact, e-mailed Mystic the day after my child’s birth, LOL–for reassurance regarding his chart. (Mars bang on the ascendant opposite Uranus! Also a Zap Zone baby) I was not a subscriber at the time–quickly signed up though, and have been a subscriber ever since. Deeply appreciated her words of support,
i have saturn in the 4th also (in capricorn though) and my parents are alive and well… both healthier than i am, in fact, lol
for me it’s definitely manifested as yes they are very saturnine, education was everything growing up, and RULES so many rules (this had its pros and cons of course, i’m not trying to make it sound like they were bad parents because they’re great)
i think for me it might also be the one thing in my chart that really points to my chronic health issues? someone once told me the 4th isn’t just your house home but also your body, your soul’s home, but they were a bit too into the saturn-as-malefic bit for my taste. then again, maybe there’s something to it.
i think saturn is also structure and stability. so, i’m a millenial, my actual place of residence has little to no stability but my HOME, my family base, i can always count on them if i need to, for anything i need to. i like to think ms mutable will be this kind of mother!
My new baby was born with Moon-Pluto conjunct in Cap…. I had a similar freak-out. Is my son going to see me as a cold, psychologically abusive mother?! ‘Cause…. that’s how I see my parents. Did this mean I am going to continue the family “tradition”?
I’m hoping that it means I am able to use psychological insights and lessons I’ve learned the hard way to be a good parent.
i have this placement-both parents alive!
they divorced when i was seven…..not sure what it means for me…yes i am independent….my parents have been there for me….for emotional support and contact….not financially…my dads pretty ‘saturnian’ that way lol….
Positives about Saturn: Saturn is reality, Saturn is glue, Saturn is grounding. Saturn always wants you to succeed, it just wants to make sure you learn the lessons you need to learn properly. Saturn can be a great guide and protector, if you let him. Saturn doesn’t fuq around. Saturn is the ballast in your ship, keeping you sailing right so the storms and sirens of Neptune don’t lead you astray or crashing into the rocks. We all need Saturn and the sooner we appreciate his gifts, the sooner he pulls through for us. She will have this in the foundation of her being, in the deepest center of her ship. She will sail right and be well-guided.
Love this
I have Saturn in Sag in the 4th house, and my parents are very much alive after all these years, LOL.
No worries, mama! There are so many things we worry about with our babies…and the time is truly so short. Trust your ability and take good care of yourself.
Me and my aqua man have Saturn in our composite chart in the 4th. And his mother simply refuses to die! For me it means that he and I are super good at the reality based part of home life which some may see as being dire. We can sort it and enjoy life to boot. Plus one old crazy lady who lives with us! Life is good with Saturn in the hood.
Yes, Saturn for me both natally and by transit is about learning lessons in a very real and practical way. Can be hard, but ultimately good.
I really relate to this – my toddler had Chiron in the 4th and a Scorpio moon – I frreeaked out then was told to put down the chart for a few years….
In the old days Child birth itself was a huge risk- People died much younger so astro was suitably gloomy not if but when/how.
Saturn 4th gives awesome structure, protection, too- true protection and effective parenting not mum and dad as friends but mentors and guides- balancing freedom with duty- and fostering true indy abilities.
Totally. What about degrees though? Like my Saturn is in the 4th at 29 degrees (in Leo). Both of my parents – both Virgo suns – are seasoned rock musicians, so there was a lot of live music (their bands practicing and recording in the basement) for the majority of my childhood until age 11, when they divorced and everything fell apart. Little did I or my siblings know, they were both extremely self-centered and not really concerned about the welfare of their children. Didn’t see my dad much after that, and my mom made sure my brother and I knew that she “never wanted” either of us, and proceeded to do everything in her power to become a single unencumbered woman again, which meant kicking my brother and I both out on the street. Let’s just say my adolescence was… tough. I had nowhere to go and no one who seemed to give a shit. It’s hard for me now, to not remember all this when I am faced with my own problems in my adult life, as I feel I tried so hard to make sure I turned out ok in the face of total abandonment and financial struggle, etc. it makes me an incredibly strong person, but resentful when I am in a position where I feel other people around me have been handed the good shit in their life and yet they STILL manage to find something wrong with it all. So it’s all weird, but weirdly good. My parents are still assholes. The one thing I am taking from all this, in my most recent meditations on it is that maybe I am actually supposed to be a performer. I was definitely raised to be one, being on ‘stage’ feels home to me. Sun-Jupiter-Lilith in the 3rd, north node in my 5th house…
I read somewhere that the 29th degree is significant in the chart. Almost like you’re mastering something from this placement.
What a beautiful post.