Is ADHD Like Being A Mutable?

Filed in ASTROLOGY

Arnold Bocklin

Is there an A.D.H.D. astrology link? If so, it would be with the so-called Mutable signs. It is probably some version of Mercury-in-Aries arrogance, but when I first heard of A.D.D./A.D.H.D. as a diagnosis, i dismissed it. I had this paranoia that it had to do with some profiteering from big pharma. The person who introduced it to me was all over the immediate dosing up of my son on Ritalin as being the only solution for a severe problem.

I thought it was just the insistence of making a kid sit still for hours on end, all day, crap teaching, etc. And he is a Cancerian with Moon in Virgo, but my feeling was that as a multiple Leo, he was bored shitless with the then emphasis on everyone getting an award/there being no ‘winners’ to avoid damaging anyone’s self-esteem. I mounted an ideological argument against the suggestion of A.D.H.D.  and even re-read Ivan Illich, the Virgo author of De-Educating Society and other forward-thinking for his time tomes.

But then the other day, a la the promptings of readings from trusted sources – including some commenters on this site – I went and did a few ‘do you have adult A.D.H.D.?’ quizzes online. All the results were dinging off the scale yes. I asked my Gemini daughter if she thought i had it and she shrugged “of course, i have it, you have it, my brother is it, i think a quarter of the population has it.”  She is not seeing it as a disorder to be treated but as a neurally different tone of being. So now, I’m diagnosed with it (this is an update) and I am super-Mutable, FYI.

Is There An ADHD Astrology LInk?

This is not a medical article – it is a post on an astrology blog. BUT it seems like all the traits being “tested” for in the quizzes were the same as demonstrated – broadly – by the Mutable signs, Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, and Pisces.  And the lists of “famous people thought to have had A.D.H.D” are thronged with the Mutables:  Alexander Bell (inventor of the telephone) – Pisces. Einstein (you know) – Pisces. Frank Lloyd Wright (genius architect) – Gemini. Mark Twain – Saggo. Emily Dickenson – Saggo. Ralph Waldo Emerson – Gemini. Leo Tolstoy – Virgo. Yeats – Gemini. John F. Kennedy – Gemini.

This is just going off Sun Signs. The shifting consciousness and diffuse focus of ADHD syncs with many of the Mutable traits in astrology.

Is A.D.H.D. a legit diagnosis of an actual problem that requires the individual to be medicated or given therapy to re-align? Or is it more of an adjustment that society needs to be making?

Can you see any link with the ‘relishing change’ awareness of the Mutable signs or people who are strong in those?

It is not like we can set and forget any vocational or educational structure anymore.

Or is any ADHD Astrology connection pure coincidence?

Image: Arnold Bocklin

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designgurl
designgurl

I’m an Aquarius, only my Mars and Saturn are mutable.
My Scorpio son has a mutable Mars and Moon. And my other Capricorn son only has a mutable Venus.
We are all “clinically diagnosed” ADD.

TybaltGem
TybaltGem

I love your resistance to the trend but feel like your Gem daughter about it: different neurological pattern is all, no shame, meds def help but in circumstances to which the neurodivergent one MAY not be natally suited at all.* Or, meds may be crucial to university completion… I feel like some of us (ahem: your family, my family) have these massive gifts and sometimes they simply correspond with other not-so-fun-to-endure qualities. And on an individual and deeply considered basis these may respond best to medication at certain points in one’s life… I’ve done it. We try to craft a… Read more »

A
A

My kid (he’s in his early 20s now) was verrry frustrating to all his teachers. Although he was super intelligent and learned easily, he absolutely refused to do paperwork. In 3rd grade, he kept signing out for bathroom breaks because he was so bored. The teacher wanted him tested for ADHD, but to me he seemed like a normal kid who was stubborn and didn’t want to conform to the system. Glad we didn’t listen to her. He is a Taurus with Virgo ascendant. In middle/high school, he’d sit in class and appear to be sleeping, do ridiculously well on… Read more »

retrogradelemonade
retrogradelemonade

I consistently (or so I thought) was noted on all report cards from my teachers: “Pleasure to have in class. Does not disrupt but has a strong difficulty focusing on the task at hand/needs a tutor/doesnt seem to be interested in the work but is great at participating” (Mars in Virgo in the 11th, ruler of my ASC, least aspected planet in my chart, hard to tie that energy down myself. In addition to that, my 3rd house is packed with a full blow Rx Capricorn stellium. Uranus is there, Neptune’s there, Saturn’s there, and My moon conjuncts it, sandwiched… Read more »

Sunniva
Sunniva

I agree with you 100%! And I came up with exactly what you are saying myself when I started getting into astrology some years ago and also tok online tests and then gpt officially tested for addult ADD through a neuro scientist. It all became an experiment to me to see the resaults, because like you, I dont believe its a “disease”, its just a different energy. People are different. I am a Virgo 9th house, moon in Pisces 3rd house, Sagittarius rising, Mercury, Mars, Venus and Pluto in Libra 9th house (also in equal house systems, but then my… Read more »

allyleoaqua
allyleoaqua

ok, come on mystic. you are so beyond everyone in so many realms and you are just now writing on this. all i can really can say is people with add/adhd have other worlds beckoning their attention. maybe other realms is a better way of putting it. we are evolving as people and i think people/children with add have the ability to communicate in highly sophisticated ways, whether its body movement or actions, or words poetry or math. all in all people with this “disorder” do not need to be medicated and your inclinations were correct. your daughter is the… Read more »

AthenaMM Member
Athena

This labeling stuff really bugs me. Learning to cope with one’s energy be it a lot or little is just something to understand and learn. Like playing a musical instrument. It’s a practice. A skill. There’s always, in my opinion, more to the picture than what ever the surface looks like. I think a lot of people feel unsafe in this world and than can make them hyper active. There are just too many labels that obscure the issue which can only be addressed individual by individual. Perhaps I miss the point here but respecting differences rather than mechanizing people… Read more »

Pegasus
Pegasus

Really like your first 5 lines.
Then
‘Unsafe=hyper active’or hyper vigilant
perhaps. An interesting hypothesis.
Thanx.

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

I LOVE the labels. The labels send you on the information highway to self-knowledge. They are tools in a tool chest. They are keys to unlock hidden chambers. People who give a toss what OTHERS think hate labels I think. Perhaps as they feel boxed in or disrespected. But I am happy with my labels as I truly don’t care about how others perceive me, I just care about how to be the best person I can be. The labels help me seek out others who are in the same situation. This is the essence of what language is about… Read more »

dizzarinaMM Member
dizzarina

YES
It’s kind of like finding out your enneagram number- it helps you understand your Self better, and more clearly identify problems and solutions.

…also…

very much like astrology. Those who wish to can operate at a lower vibration and label someone based on their (sun) sign, but the sincere student uses the information for their benefit.

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

Haha, thank you sincere student for bringing us back full circle to where this started: astrology.
Beautiful, meaningful, miraculous star patternings on which all psychological, phenomenalogical generalisations and characterisation are originally based!! Mutable Powers: Activate! Form of a Grand Cross. X.

Jokerman
Jokerman

This topic proves my top entry: IHSFA-

I
Hate
Silly
Fuqn
Acronyms

Astro Taxonomy- fine. Love it!

But the prob is all the misclassification and misdiagnosis.

I’ll go back to my other obsessions

Pegasus
Pegasus

W T F………………PowerFinger?

tamara73MM Member
tamara73

Ok, I know my sun and rising signs and that’s about it in terms of astrology, so I can’t comment on whether ADHD only occurs in mutable people. But, when I was working as a therapist, I found kids were often being diagnosed with ADHD (and sometimes put on Ritalin) when they were acting out due to having terrible family environments. So that is a proportion of supposedly ADHD cases where I doubt it’s biological. In other instances, I do think there is some brain chemistry component. Some people diagnosed with Pyrrole Disorder (something not particularly accepted by the medical… Read more »

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Thank you

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

In classic ADHD style, having dominated the comments in a hardcore propaganda guerilla anti-conspiracy theory / pro big pharma kind of way. I feel as if I’m not being completely honest and over reacting. Not you? Surely! STOP CALLING ME SURELY! Yes. I’m about as mutable as it’s possible to be astrologically speaking. Not just the all the Sag and all the Virgo but the squares with Saturn to sun moon and mars. There’s just so much to indicate it in my chart but I guess what’s really been bothering me is the fact that I thought my Sag moon… Read more »

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

I so get this. When my doc suggested my issues I read this really depressing book by an MD on ADD/ADHD who was all about medicating people. There was this story about a girl who was struggling at school, who then rebelled and found a rebel boy, who then got pregnant -because she found remembering taking the pill a challenge and so on… Her whole life a jumble of misadventures. It really depressed me and woke me up to the pattern of my own personal life choices. It was like I was suddenly able to review my whole life through… Read more »

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

I know exactly what you mean. Was listening to an audiobook on life hacks and coping stratagies for adult adhd and had to switch it off. it was just freaking me out to listen to it. Sometimes focusing on the problem, even ‘how to deal with the problem” make me feel as if I AM the problem. And it’s not like I need that rubbed in any further. I’ve spent my life feeling like I was a problem to be solved, something broken to be fixed. I want to be loved for who I am, the way I am so… Read more »

dizzarinaMM Member
dizzarina

Ouch. I know just what you mean. So painful.

Pegasus
Pegasus

Being a triple Sagg with Virgoan Mars
and also have big 10 & 11th house action have always thought my delightful travelling Sagg bits took over the Cap rising & Virgo earthy grounding part that could have made me very very financial secure foreva if i had worshiped at the altar of Mammon, alas Everything Else was more attractive.
Fret not you are doing what you are meant to be doing….Exploring, yes?

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Yes. and feeling more like I’m on mission soul wise than ever. Thanks Pegs

12th house virgo
12th house virgo

Isn’t that a disease that if you ask to be diagnosed for it, you’re sure to have it?

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

no

12th House Virgo
12th House Virgo
sphinxMM Member
sphinx

I agree that this ‘diagnosis’ of ADHD is merely describing a set of symptoms.

Autism has about 200 symptoms – other than that there is no way to define it scientifically yet.

What’s the problem with giving this set of symptoms a name? It needs to be named to be described so we can have a conversation about how to live better with that set of symptoms.

12th house virgo
12th house virgo

I have a problem with giving a set of symptoms a name and diagnosing 100% of people with the disease/disorder. I have yet to hear of someone who asked and does not have ADHD. That isn’t saying people don’t have it. But who asked and had a doctor say “No, for sure, you don’t have that at all.”

If everyone is diagnosed with a disease, shouldn’t that be a public health concern too?

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

That isn’t how ADHD is diagnosed at all. I’ve never known any adult to get a diagnosis of ADHD based solely on the evidence they provide. School reports, information from family, friends, ex or current spouses, bosses, colleagues etc are required and even this is no guarantee of either a diagnosis or treatment. The NHS simply does not address it. It’s horribly frustrating for people to go to doctors and have their symptoms dismissed in the 15 minutes they are allocated and told to just try harder or that they need to be more motivated etc. I was lucky that… Read more »

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

“If everyone is diagnosed with a disease, shouldn’t that be a public health concern too?” Yes!! But it’s NOT how this plays out in the Dr’s room in my world. But for those of us who have issues, clarity is just SOO relieving. Because a lot of the issues around identity are what confuses in the first place and when you hear it and have your AHA moment it’s amazing. And it’s wonderful to finally have the keys to the doors you have been braining yourself on. As I said earlier there are 200 symptoms known to be associated with… Read more »

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Um, neuroscientists who write for The Daily Mail?
It’s not what I’d consider a reliable source of news, more of a tabloid famous for twisting soundbites out of completely out of context without regard for the consequences or even the validity of what they print. They’ve printed more outrageously bogus articles than any UK paper I can think of, but if you choose to trust what they print that’s your decision.
Hope you’re ok.

marsbar
marsbar

I am in the minority here. I have only asc and venus in mutable signs and do not have adhd. I am what is described as neurotypical.
I do find that article about brain hard wired for novelty seeking because when my genome was looked at, i am homozygous for a gene known to produce novelty-seeking behaviour, such as taking a bunch of drugs, etc… But no none of those things interest me. I can focus for days. If anything that is my problem as i almost never let go unless forced to.

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

“I can focus for days. If anything that is my problem as i almost never let go unless forced to”. Marsbar! This IS the other side of the same coin. My Saggie Spectrum In-Law lives with me in part because he is obsessively sits at the computer for hours translating documents for a pittance without moving. He can disconnect from his body and be in his mind so totally he won’t notice hunger or even pain – in fact I had to send him to hospital for an infection he neglected last week until he was suddenly in agony. If… Read more »

marsbar
marsbar

a simple 23 and me will reveal whether you have certain snps affected. You have to manually look in snpedia. It doesn’t just pop up on a ready-made file or page.

I guess what I mean to say, regardless of if I am neurotypical or not, I have been lucky to not have been punished by society (for once!) for how my brain works. I do have many friends and exes who have adult ADHD.

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

I am happy of you not to have been punished by society for how your brain works, lol!

Thanks for the 23&me tip!!

hdq
hdq

Yes I agree.
We are pathologized/stigmatized/oppressed
Because we are feared.
Burn the witch!
Except we are the fire.
#neurofreaksnotcures

(It took me probably 15 tries to finish this comment, heehee 🙂 )

Corrina
Corrina

Hey HDQ

Pathology is only a scientific way to describe what is going on in the body. Don’t take it on board as YOU.

Stigmatised. More public awareness and less ideology about everyone conforming to a particular way of processing and operating. Nature loves variety and goes out of its way to create multiple variations in all manner of life forms. We humans need to get off our high horse and respect nature’s creations.

Oppressed? Who’s oppressing you? I’m coming over to give them a bloody good talking to.

*hugs*

hdq
hdq

Thanks, prowlin’!
So much of the oppression is internalized these days, at least in privileged and passing populations (ie me). Children of color, poor people, however, you know. .. :'( there is also a lot of good work being done to change this.

Corrina
Corrina

You know from my work in mental health I have learned one thing: The best way to work with social oppression and stigmatisation is to be your own advocate. Then join others who are their own advocates. Peer support is one of the most powerful movements out there.

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Indeed!

virgo risingMM Member
virgo rising

This may sound simplistic as hell, but if the diet were changed, which would change blood chemistry, it would also change the way the energies were operating. A vegan, and gluten free, processed food and fast food free diet would allow body chemistry to stabilize and energies to balance. Most western diets have to much sugar, dairy, fats and chemicals which affects the body’s natural chemical balance…

skarabMM Member
skarab

Everybody is different – and react differently to different diets. Not everybody can exist on a vegan or even vegetarian diet. As an example: my bestie developed Graves disease & had also been diagnosed ADHD years before. She had been a vegetarian for 25 yrs, meticulously combining for the “right” balance of proteins, she consumed no sugar, gluten, or dairy or processed foods. Was finally told by a specialist Doctor-Naturopath to switch to a diet with meat or she would just simply die. She was weak, with zero energy, a foggy mind, depressed, but also weirdly speedy due to the… Read more »

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

YES! I need to copy and paste this all over the webnetz.

PiMM Member
Pi

if you have the mic/voice recorder on your phone set to quick-swipe next to sms and calls or whatever, then uranian-mercurial incoming is way easier to catch. no pens / paper or double hand RSI walk into other people on footpath phone note typing crap. just hit it, speak then writeup / re listen later.

StarMM Member
Star

I maintain that ADHD is my super-power. If you think about the huge advantages of being ADHD, in terms of imagination, drive, flexibility and genius, you understand why big pharma wants to sedate the ever-loving crap out of us. The world needs more people like us to shake the dominant paradigm until it becomes totally unstuck.

I’m Gemini as FUQ, by the way.

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

Woo hoo!

Corrina
Corrina

ADHD is absolutely a superpower. I’m not sure of the generation you were born in but early ADHDs really copped it and suffered enormously.

If you’ve learned how to use your superpower effectively more power to you. *thumbs up*

I think being ADHD or on the autie spectrum is like being born into a body like a high powered, uber performance super car. You can’t just bung crap fuel into it or give it a suboptimal every once in awhile. 😉

Corrina
Corrina

suboptimal *service*

hdq
hdq

Preach! *fist bump*

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

round of applause

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

fuqit
standing ovation!
I cant sit still anyway
dancing ovation!!!!!

laynechangeMM Member
laynechange

huh! just saw this. my grandson has that cancer sun/virgo moon and a LOT of mutability. he’s almost 9. he bounces off walls with adhd diagnosed at age 4. school is tremendously difficult (especially for the teaching staff and other students. here’s the thing – he’s happy. let’s see what happens when he gets older…

flowerchild
flowerchild

The person I know who has the hardest time with her ADHD happens to be a Taurus. I think she took medication for awhile but I don’t think she does now…..I know she often now manages it with high levels of caffeine. But anyway… It’s another one of those diagnoses that has increased per capita in recent years. Is it because we’re getting better at identifying it and diagnosing it, or are there just more cases than before? I do believe diet and supplementation can improve symptoms or conversely make symptoms worse, depending on what you’re eating and supplementing with.… Read more »

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Hallowell calls it “pseudo-ADHD” not to imply it’s a form of fakery but rather the last in a long list of how ADHD presents – can look like other things and is misdiagnosed. Our society has become all about sound bites and short attention spans. We channel surf, use social media and have several windows open at once when online. We ARE all becoming more ADHD as a race and the need for mindfulness, good nutrition, exercise and health as the first wealth has never been greater. Ultimately, my take is that we are all somewhere on a spectrum. Some… Read more »

Mj
Mj

Society totally needs to make the adjustment. Someone I knew 20 years ago had adhd and became a chef. He thrived in that role because it was fast paced, and that’s when I came to the conclusion that schools and society need to adjust for different people. School caters to stillness, and how many jobs are like that too? On a slightly separate note, I recently saw a vid on a group that was providing work to adults with severe Aspergers editing special effects (frame by frame) for movies. They were so highly suited due to attention to detail and… Read more »

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

Totally great thought.

MutableMabel
MutableMabel

I’m mutable but being medicated with essentially a bunch of speed would not be a good look for me. Some people thrive on it, though. I’m a non-medical-person and my opinion is functionally useless but I basically think that if you do not respond well to medication for ADHD then you don’t have it. Like this is a solution that was invented for a problem people may or may not have, but it’s speed. Lots of people have worked better on speed since our ancestors started finding ways to get speedy.

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Speed calms me down. Proving your point. I get upset at how if someone has a stomach problem it’s ok to take medicine for it but if you have neurobiological condition it’s seen as a cop out or a weakness. I understand that each person has the right to decide if they want to be team science or team onion water and this isn’t directed at you at all. I just wish people would be less judgmental about people who’ve been diagnosed by a physician and won’t lie about taking medication or be shamed into just bucking up and getting… Read more »

PiMM Member
Pi

yeah totes
i don’t think there have to be teams, e.g. science vs onion water (wtf even is that lol) i think people should stop being tribal about it all, full stop. it’s just another way that we divide and identify ourselves. shows that we never get far from the cave before we start hitting each other over the head with different clubs
“omg why aren’t you on a herbal decoction with avocado paste, and a steady social media diet of anti-pharma memes and oversharing of wholesome photos of raw food, for that health thing you’re dealing with?”

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

It’s my ADHD brain referencing the Tim Minchin song Storm, about homeopathy.
onion water
xx

skarabMM Member
skarab

It’s just so easy to laugh at hippies, isn’t it? But perhaps Tim Michin should’ve checked out the tens of thousands of deaths that aspirin causes every year in the States alone, due to it’s gastrointestinal toxic effects – before he so arrogantly states that it has absolutely no side effects. In fact, way back in the 70s, aspirin was listed in the top 10 most dangerous drugs. The reason they don’t make the top 10 chart now, is because they’ve invented far more dangerous ones since then. Also the FDA (in 2014) retracted it’s previous stance on people taking… Read more »

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

I didn’t know that but I can believe it. Personally I don’t take aspirin, ever because I know it does have side effects and I’m wary of taking medications, even when they are prescribed by a physician but over the counter? So not my style.
I didn’t mean to set Minchin up as some kind of medical or scientific expert. He’s an entertainer and a comedian. I was merely clarifying for Pi what I meant by onion water, that’s all.

skarabMM Member
skarab

No Invicta, of course i knew you weren’t, hon. And he is funny .. great rant. But my point is that that sort of rant is what is thrown at genuine healers who don’t necessarily agree with everything that the pharmaceuticals throw at them. Imagine that dandelion tea or ginseng killed as many people as aspirin does every year? So far, no recorded deaths on either. Yet they’ve been trying to ban the sales of these herbs in whole food shops in Europe for over 15 yrs now. What’s worse – expounding flaky gerberas or downright medical lies/misinformation? I like… Read more »

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

That is so interesting Skarab! Aspirin I thought was the wonder drug – goes to show how these infectious diseases are confusingly highlighted in the media.
Tim Minchin.. ugh. I was listening to Margaret Throsby interview this person on the radio one day. How insufferable I thought ! The arrogance and ego was just dripping off him… Turned out to be Tim. Just, wow.

skarabMM Member
skarab

Yes, well i guess it’s fine to be an arrogant knob & still be funny… sometimes.
But it would be good if he at least got his facts right.
What amazes me most is the sheer hostility ignoramuses like him display towards subject matters that they haven’t even bothered researching for themselves. Just swallow the official pill & go lynch….
How imaginative.

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

His father is a medical doctor… Need I say more.

hdq
hdq

YES THIS.
Neurodivergent love.
xxxxxxxxx

PiMM Member
Pi

Was reading about brain wavelengths and add and so on. Apparently the vague spacey states are too much theta and or alpha. The stimulants zap the wavelength up to beta or gamma (beta mostly) so as to make one more ‘present’ and focused in real-time. Caffeine same but less intense, well unless you have 3 double espressos I guess. Beta wavelength range is when you are smashing out reports at work, or heavily involved in quotidien / life work biz, very Virgo/ Saturn etc on-point making-sense-to-the-world vibe rather than whatever else. We all have a bit of all of them… Read more »

PiMM Member
Pi

Oh and to much beta makes for a nervous wreck with sleep issues so yeah balance is king, as always

tw:leoMM Member
tw:leo

holy mackerel you guys! this is so fabulous! what insightful and respectful discussion! LOVE.

Jokerman
Jokerman

Two fishy for me

Pegasus
Pegasus

Was fast off the draw just answering the question w/o reading the rest. Glad you agree Myst. It is the education system that creates restlessness. ‘They will do better if they paid more attention’ the blurb on many report cards. There was no right of reply to make the subject more interesting. Guess that’s why i loved geography so much, sitting dreaming of faraway places on the colourful maps , sucking in all the continents with every breath and thinking how am i at the bottom of the bottom of the lands before Antartic and longing to be closer to… Read more »

Jokerman
Jokerman

I agree with you and wanta make the……….what were we talkn about…..did you see that Porsche!!!

Jokerman
Jokerman

But you live in the land of real pasties, berliner buns to die-for, the best stone fruit & apples and King George Whiting.

I miss SA’s food.

Pegasus
Pegasus

PowerFinger,
Want to see the fastest draw in the west?
Want to see it again?

Yes we have quality food in SA and can still take the line and catch a fish in the gulf for dinner. Great wine and fruit.
Sadly my sylph like body don’t like cakes buns pastry stuff coz it puts me to sleep 🙂

Pegasus
Pegasus

Short answer YES says the Pegasus but only if you drop the last ‘D’ and not consider it a disorder, maybe dis-tracted,
Conzentration and serious focus fixes that.

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

We are attention different. Not attention deficit. X

Pegasus
Pegasus

YoHo Invicta, yay fuq the ‘dis-‘ anything, diss the disses.x

The world is so full of wondrous scenes, adventures, creativity, one wants to sample it ALL, so is happy trying to do everything at once.
Am at my happiest when blending oils, reviewing music trax, making playlists, watching an historical drama,
reading a book and browsing thro’ a Vogue/VantyFair/Rolling Stone…..bliss & brushstrokes.
x

SagittariusHeartMM Member
SagittariusHeart

Sagittarius Sun-North Node, Mercury, and Neptune.
Pisces Rising square Mercury.
Gemini South Node, opposite Sagittarius Sun.
I was dignosed with ADHD as an adult. My kid’s therapist pointed out that parents need to provide structure at home, check on homework and do other boring, intolerable tasks.
I cried at the list of expectations…and was never able to meet all of them. Medication has helped, but i still have daily bouts of painfull restless energy. Every day I feel it.
It’s all the Sagittarius qualities that can also be interpreted as ADD/ADHD. They are the same thing to me.

sphinx
sphinx

So I agree re Mutable energy, but have a few thoughts on why: 1) The ability to process information in a systematic and organised way is partly destiny, partly heredity, partly health, partly environmentally supported or negated. 2) The corpus callous is found to be smaller in autistic people AND people with ADHD. The corpus callous (along with other bits and bobs) links the two hemispheres of the brain. So it’s harder for the two hemispheres to comprise the “I-Me” discourse” if there are less fibres for info to travel on. ADHD people/autie people are in one part of the… Read more »

skarabMM Member
skarab

Thank you, sphinx… i was wanting to hear your thoughts on this because of your personal experience & you came through beautifully, as always. I just feel like paraphrasing everything, and that would be silly. But this: “Our brains do show that we are not ALL as interested in connecting the dots as BEING the connection and the dots; the particle and the waves.” YES & thank god for that & the “different” forces of consciousness. What new things can we ever learn – or how can we grow if we only look towards the accepted – or very often… Read more »

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

Thank you so much Skarab – I feel so ..recognised with your comment, I so appreciate it. I sit with all this info trying to prioritise what I need to do or not do for my little man – and myself et al. Spiritually, physically.. I am really interested in learning about hyperbaric chamber to help my little possum along with his corpus callous atm. But more broadly, we don’t have to actually ‘do’ anything in this life, we are so neurotic it’s painful. Connect to spirit, love and get by is enough for me atm. Oh, and try to… Read more »

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

this is amazing Sphinx, so well put.
x

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

Thank you darling, loved reading your take above, you are a doll.

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Thank you Sphinx. I pretty much paraphrased what you said above to my shrink today as I’m really battling to accept that I am in fact, in some real and measurable ways “mentally retarded.” Sure I have other gifts and I roll with the upsides but the need to redefine success and adjust my expectations of myself, to stop measuring my life against say, my brother’s life is so important. But honestly, my ego struggles to accept it. For a while I joked at my own expense, thinking if I called myself a spazz and had a laugh about it,… Read more »

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

Oh, that is an honour to be paraphrased, what did the shrink think? If he’s that expensive I’d like to know if he can expand on this line of thought!! Lol. You aren’t delusional at all, I love that you put so much effort in to listening as well as expressing yourself. Like the time you were the target of some criticism on the blog here and you really listened and tried to take what you could from it. You are a rare and unique in being able to do that, you have intense regard for Truth above your ego.… Read more »

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Thank you

embarkons7MM Member
embarkons7

Yes — there was a recent NY Times op-Ed on how brain research is showing that peeps often diagnosed with ADHD have a different — but not dysfunctional — sort of wiring for seeking more novelty: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/02/opinion/sunday/a-natural-fix-for-adhd.html I remember talking to a Gemini friend — so I have cosmic ADD, she said when I first did her mega-Gem chart — about whether she should get on the heavy duty stimulants they use to treat it. I agree with the implications that a lot of it is being out of sync with our hyper results focused culture — which I think… Read more »

skarabMM Member
skarab

Interesting article. As a very restless person, i particularly enjoyed reading about the benefits of the nomadic hunter-gatherer cultures over our static, goal focussed, city bound lifestyles. I have always thought that humans fuqued up when they began farming, owning property and settling down – for so many, many reasons – but boredom is a main one.

ElectroMM Member
Electro

Great article. I think it’s unfortunate the way some things have developed over time. Another motivator of stifling daily environments is fear. Stop and think about that one, it’s a wormhole. I live in the woods and I always say it helps keep me sane – the animals, the seasonal changes, watching the plants cycle through.

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

Thank you for this link, it’s so true. Most people I met on the road travelling were ADHD: soldiers, people born premature etc all were legion. We need all sorts in this Universe.

Libra9
Libra9

This is fascinating. It makes so much sense.

Lux Interior Is My Co-PilotMM Member
Lux Interior Is My Co-Pilot

I was literally discussing adult ADHD this with a Gemini friend who has just started a course of meds to treat it!

I was like, well I have that too (i.e. forgetting things constantly because I’m so FOCUSED on some other, NEW thing) and I’m Virgo.

He said he kept forgetting to take the meds.

I was like, this is just a MUTABLE thing.

Corrina
Corrina

My partner has adult ADHD and I definitely think the label describes a completely different wiring of the brain. Admittedly he was born in the 70s and during that era hyperactive boys with short attention spans were simply told they were naughty and had the crap bashed out of them to get them to “behave”. He is a Cappy with moon in Pisces, however this is his only mutable aspect. Everything else in his chart is cardinal or fixed. He was only diagnosed in his late 20s and after having suffered severe abuse under the guise of discipline, developed PTSD… Read more »

Corrina
Corrina

Oh and one final point. High quality extra potent fish oil is an excellent preventative treatment for ADHD. Remember these people have high powered brains with no screening mechanism … they need as much brain food as they can possible get and fish oil is brilliant for this.

Jokerman
Jokerman

Fish oil a cure for mutability?
I spose it works as an antivenene.

PiMM Member
Pi

Homeopathy 😛

gogengoMM Member
gogengo

I think it’s really interesting that you mention the link between diet + ADHD symptoms here!

I know for a fact that my stuff kicks in more when I have diary, sugar, wheat/gluten – and when I’m taking my fish oil 2x daily + probiotics + thyroid support I can more easily manage the overwhelm that often occurs with AD(H)D.

Corrina
Corrina

When I was supporting my partner in the early days I was shocked that the psychiatric community mentioned nothing about diet when he clearly showed signs of food intolerance.

It also disappoints me that the medical profession always turns to medication first, even though there is plenty of anecdotal evidence for dietary change as being the first port of call when it comes to children showing signs of ADHD.

Brilliant that you’ve worked that stuff out for yourself though hey? Maybe you need to go on a speaking tour or start a blog about your experiences? 😀

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

I agree. I eat fresh wild salmon daily, often a few times a fay and also take fish oil supplements. I cut out sugar and refined carbs years ago as am totally, horribly intolerant to them. My shrink is very clued up on the importance of diet and exercise as well as having a schedule, a routine because as much as I resist that, it DOES help. It’s just so hard. I have support from other smart women with ADHD via social media too which helps. I have started a baby blog about my experience of living with undiagnosed ADHD… Read more »

Corrina
Corrina

He’s a bloody handful at times at let me tell ya!! But I loves him to bits so it’s worth it. 🙂

xMM Member
x

Personally I think you are on to something here. Social change is necessary and new ways need to develop for expression, rather than trying to suppress energy we could begin too canal it towards a new way of living and learning. My generation was brought up to be seen and not heard, all very good and proper, the next group broke away, neither of these was great for the individual, now the future beckons, perhaps the children so diagnosed need to be encouraged to blaze the way rather than trying to suppress or oppress them. They behaviour indicates will not… Read more »

Starlush
Starlush

There’s a great book about this-Collaborative Intelligence -Thinking with People who think Differently Dawna Markova PhD.

twinfishrising
twinfishrising

Thanks for the recommendation. Looks really interesting. 🙂

April
April

I can only speak from my personal experience. Im a Capricorn Sun, Gemini Moon, Sagittarius stellium 1st house(Ascendant, Venus, Uranus, Neptune). And I was diagnosed with ADHD in 2012 at 29. I do believe there is a link between the two & it reuires further investigation and study.

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

YES!

gogengoMM Member
gogengo

@Invicta – I am also really loving the positivity here, especially given that many people dismiss ADHD and say that it isn’t a real thing. I was diagnosed with ADD (primarily inattentive) at the age of 35 after I broke down crying at the doctor’s office – years and years of struggling, feeling stupid, missing things that “normal” people easily understood erodes your self -esteem and I was at a breaking point. He said that I was able to maintain for so long due to my intelligence and masking skills – skills I see now that come from being a… Read more »

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

<3

Corrina
Corrina

I’m really sorry to hear that you had to go through all that crap. It really shits me that ADHD is not taken seriously and the trauma people have to go through before receiving proper treatment.

I’m glad that you’ve found your path now. 🙂

gogengoMM Member
gogengo

Thank you, me too :).

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Wow. I just got in and am LOVING the positivity of this post and all the comments. I need to re read all the comments before saying anything else except that finally getting a diagnosis and treatment for ADHD has transformed my life and the way I deal with me. It’s hard to put into words because there’s such a lot to unpack emotionally. The secondary symptoms of not aknowlwdging my dyscalculia, dyspraxia and dyslexia as well as the ADHD feel more challenging than the primary ones. The low self esteem from thinking it was a moral failure of that… Read more »

Saoirse KirkeMM Member
Saoirse Kirke

Thisthisthis

gogengoMM Member
gogengo

YES.

I also struggle with dyscalculia, dyslexia, along with auditory processing disorder. Up until my diagnosis, I always just thought that I was stupid and a failure at life.

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Thank you so much for sharing that.
Yes, you are not alone.
You DO belong.
You DO have a tribe.
I read that one who never howls out in pain will never find their tribe.
We are connected, and we can thrive by supporting each other and fighting against the stigma of mental health issues.
Because you are authentic, it has taken you (and me) longer to grow into who we are, but it has also given us such reliance, compassion, and creativity
Together we are unstoppable.

gogengoMM Member
gogengo

You are so right! I am proud of us + all those who have struggled in finding our way as it does teach so many great lessons along the way.

Thank you for sharing your story and inspiring me to give voice to mine 🙂

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

absolute pleasure hon x

Jokerman
Jokerman

You said a lot for not intending to say a lot.
But l’m not dysn you, you understand.

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

I know Powderfinger. I know you jest. It’s part of your charm.

AAC.
AAC.

Definitely a mutable trend. But can I point out these things are not new. ADD, ADHD, Aspergers and Autism. Remember Asylums. Guess who used to fill them? Knowing kids and adults on the spectrum, some function fine without meds others are unable to function without. Those kids would have been even been labelled demons, witches, possessed and touched in other times. In parts of Africa children are abandoned and labelled as witches and bad omens. The fact that we name something differently now isn’t bad.. For the most part it has been a good thing. Less kids being abandoned, tortured… Read more »

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

I read “Neurotribes” recently and they talked about a lovely little school for autistic kids where Asperger worked and when the Nazi’s took over they starved little 5 year old students to death as they were considered subhuman and a danger to the health of society.
The history of autism is a horrible topic but also full of surprising love at times. But there is no point romanticising it even to this day. Anyway a great book that gives a taste of the gifts our neurodivergent ancestors passed on to a culture that often despised them.

LiliMM Member
Lili

My parents were both mutable, Virgo/Libra dad and Gem/Leo mum. Super verbal/writers- whirring political sniping at meals. Mum went through life red pen in hand correcting every entity written and 3-D. Both voracious readers/addicts of data-info. Dad sent newspaper clippings to friends on their interests, old school tweets and shares. On ADHD- SENG- Supporting the Emotional Needs of the Gifted- holds a treasure trove of articles and giftedness. Giftedness/artistry often is bundled with emoting/learning/processing/relating differently. Hence the ironic term twice gifted. Anxiety, sensory processing, oppositional attitude- and asynchronous development are all part of the picture. My Virgo Sun/Mercury young adults… Read more »

skarabMM Member
skarab

Interesting article – thanks, Kell.

LiliMM Member
Lili

Glad you like it!

Corrina
Corrina

I like this idea that you mention linking giftedness and ADHD. I completely agree. I have met a few ADHD people now as well as people on the autism spectrum. Highly intelligent, often very empathic, special gifts in certain areas … also very giving, open and loving. But have shut down due to negative feedback from society.

PiMM Member
Pi

Thanks this is interesting.

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

Interesting article.My French Saggi FIL is spectrum, he had to leave his home country due to their very specific ways of socialising. He couldn’t cope with the expectations and of course back in his day they had less understanding of ADHD/Autism/sensory difference.
I definitely like the idea of an alternate version to the DSM based on basic science, blood work etc.

PiMM Member
Pi

it’s interesting you say this and it reminded me of something. an expat friend has two little kids who were in school in the US and it was very happy, inclusive, relaxed, kids were loving it. then move to france and it’s teasing and mean-girls for days. crushed the youngest’s love of school, ever, I think. So yeah, a game of snakes and ladders maybe

PiMM Member
Pi

Thanks for writing this. No professional experience to speak of re any of it obvs but yes attention deficit in relation to what or whom, exactly? Your gem daughter is on the right track maybe. Like, we should all forcibly align with a set of traits that are determined to be the norm etc? I have so many pals and loved ones dealing with /medicated for one kind of diagnosis or another and you know… Much seems to be because of these hideously limited processed-life options that society seems to like to shunt us into without remembering to add the… Read more »

PiMM Member
Pi

Pisces might be ADD rather than adhd if my vagueness – a.k.a. daydreaming – is anything to go by, lol.

PiMM Member
Pi

The question worth asking is often based around the “should”..
You “should” be more calm (why?)
She “should” focus more (to what end?)
Any answer is fine as long as it is thoroughly interrogated until all the “should”s are unravelled to a point where personal or social expectations and beliefs are seen for what they are. The expectations may be perfectly justified but as long as everyone agrees to the same principles for the same reasons
If this makes sense.

HoudiniMM Member
Houdini

I agree xompletely, Attention deficit ?… We are talking about the same attention that is bought and sold for consumer purposes, correct,?…

PiMM Member
Pi

Yeah. “Sorry I can’t focus on your production and consumption timeline lime a good docile citizen.”

Adhd as response to conflict situ makes sense.

RiawynMM Member
Riawyn

Heh. In my experience mutable = varying degrees of bipolar. My sister and father are Geminis. My husband has Gemini rising and my best friend is a Pisces and all of them are bipolar

Jokerman
Jokerman

You must be a Bi-Polar Bear.

hdq
hdq

Can confirm.

LeoEscapeArtistMM Member
LeoEscapeArtist

Mercury.Jupiter.Neptune r u kidding? The space/ time thingy wasn’t their idea. It’s the everything to appreciate the beauty of mutable genius. As a school teacher, I create situations for this species to thrive. Astrology IS a sacred tool. My personal experience dating this FUN tribe is all the amazingness of doing all the things being balaced by the text from Snag to meet in the parking lot…zoom.zoom. This tribe knows they aren’t in Kansas–never have been, never will be…even if the gps literally says, Kansas. Mystic, you wrote something so profound for me in the hyper-flux memo…something like how mutables… Read more »

AquaMeg
AquaMeg

ADHD and ADD weren’t around or diagnosed when I was a kid in school. I had the opposite problem of being too focused and stubborn on what I wanted to learn, lol. If the teacher changed up the curriculum or the structure varied, I was one unhappy camper. When ADHD and ADD first came out, I had this theory that those folks have a different intelligence that’s just, sadly, not recognized by the common educational model (which, by the way, was taken from the Prussian educational model of creating good workers, not necessarily critical/creative thinkers. Read about the classical trivium… Read more »

The Venus FlyMM Member
The Venus Fly

All I know is that ever since Mercury started moving FORWARD the delays and hiccups have been next level. The Taurus in me is screaming from all the good sales and deals I missed out on because checks wanted to arrive before the weekend delaying clearance. I mean, companies I love that FINALLY after a decade had a 50% off sale. Checks that should have cleared TODAY after the 3 working days still on delay. Third time my damn phone has broken down this year but because it wasn’t sent OUT last time I am unable to claim warranty until… Read more »

gbs
gbs

My nephew’s Saggo Sun is conjunct Mercury. He was diagnosed with ADHD around the age of 4 and struggled a great deal in public school, on various kinds of ADHD medication, until my sister removed him to home school him when he was 10. His behavior stabilized a lot after that and he is no longer on medication at 14, although home schooling presents its own challenges. But none that are as damaging to his self esteem as the public school experience was. I agree with the poster above that Uranus plays a part in ADHD. My nephew also has… Read more »

Cath
Cath

I was diagnosed ADHD Inattentive last year at age 37. Slowly getting my head around it. What I thought was just “getting bored” with a job turned out to be a short attention span. No wonder I’ve been through so many.
Ritalin & Concerta is helping though.
And to top it off I’m Libra Sun, Pisces rising. You might be right Mystic.

Starlush
Starlush

I think there is something to be said for being able to have the diffuse awareness, ability to glide from one subject to the next and this talent should be nurtured in such a way that provides a container for this genius. A different container. A flexible container. A container that provides outlets and experimentation to solving problems requiring the abilities to dance and make connections.

ElectroMM Member
Electro

I’m a mutable/fixed hybrid AND a public school teacher in the states, so I’ll try to answer without letting loose the infinite amount of thoughts I have on this. First, I am not a huge fan of the educational system but I do love teaching and I haven’t been able to find a public school alternative. I think some can be attributed to mutability, some to genuine miswiring, and others to horrid lifestyle choices or even lifestyles not based on choices (poverty, abuse, etc are more of a trap than a choice). The way our society is set up really… Read more »

PiMM Member
Pi

Like.

skarabMM Member
skarab

Like what you say too.
My conscientious, enlightened and exasperated teacher friends in UK school system say same thing (re it being more of a societal problem – with a minority being for real ADHD due to neurological miswiring) as more children are being medicated there. The number of ADHD meds have more than doubled there in the past 10 yrs. So has the number of self-harming cases of kids under 16. Something needs to shift badly alright.

Jokerman
Jokerman

I roll with the punches. But my qikwit gets me nto trouble.

supakaliMM Member
supakali

i just had 8 x 11 yr old for a sleepover and they were noisy but one kid in particular acting out with no self control and when his Dad came to pick him up he whinged about the kid, was going to “kick his arse, he’s ruined everything” and I thought, well, this explains it, that kid has no safe harbour, he’s on constant high-alert. and of course I wanted to kick the Dad’s arse, but you can’t risk making things worse for the son.

Jokerman
Jokerman

Sad…but true

ElectroMM Member
Electro

I have a kid in my class who was sexually abused as an infant by his parents and now has no contact with them. He lives with his grandmother, who lost her job this year and also was hospitalized with an illness, so he & his brother had to live with an aunt for a while. This is the extreme but I could tell a story for every child in the class. Kids go through a lot and it breaks my heart. I think I do a pretty good job of balancing what I have to do with what I… Read more »

Starlush
Starlush

wow 1 in 4 people on medication is a ridiculously high figure. we need to shift this! i’m an acupuncture physician in the states as well and am not happy with our educational system especially as our economic structure is changing and the educational system is not adapting to support that. what is to be done? i have 3 children and have contemplated home schooling them although that is such a huge responsibility so i am finding creative ways to suppplement their education but at the end of the day about 8 hours in school there is not much time… Read more »

Saoirse KirkeMM Member
Saoirse Kirke

Would write a book about this.officially love “haute mutable genius”

NinthHouseMM Member
NinthHouse

I think the main thing to remember is that these constellations of attributes are given a label only because they are causing ‘dis-ease’ ie. affecting the way a person functions in a negative way. Despite how it’s presented these days, all the label is there to do is direct therapies (and funding for that matter). So you could have a constellation of very mutable attributes but be totally high-functioning with them. In that case you’d be better off giving yourself the label of HMG ie. haute-mutable-genius, than ADHD.

AstroGeekMM Member
AstroGeek

Like most things, I think it’s not black or white. I’m Saggo sun, and was diagnosed early on with ADHD. While my mom chose not to medicate me (for many of the initial reasons you stated above) I do think it’s a way my brain functions differently. I’m an excellent writer, for example, but in conversation, sometimes words literally get stuck or mangled in the transition from mind to mouth. I also lose interest in things (sometimes mid-sentence, ha!) and do find it hard to stay committed and persevere once I’m uninterested. I physically get restless and need to move… Read more »

lowolf
lowolf

love yr insights

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

As my GP was explaining my ADD (Leo, Gem Rising) she was was distracted mid sentence by my Gem Stellium guy jogging his knee up and down and prescribed him magnesium.
But he’s just ADHD, I mean, Gemini I said. Birds of a feather, she laughed.

Piscean Pa has been recently described by a psych as likely Aspie but I think it’s ADD layered with an unhealthy dose of self protective narcissism.

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

It’s probably worth noting the fact I never crawled and so parts of the brain never organised as is the norm. I am quite ambidextrous, epileptic, have synasthesia etc all probably features of a wild brain that refuses to quite shut down. I ride currents outside the accepted norm. As do many of us with Attention Dialled into a Higher Dimension.
My little Capricorn Aqua Moon with Scorp Rising is most dialled in of us all, but not mutable at all, just divine.

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Yes, my Cap brother is the same. My rock. I love your way of interpreting things. Attention Dialled Into a Higher Dimension.
Please print that on a T-shirt?

sphinxMM Member
sphinx

I think they have one already. It’s on the rack next the t-shirt that says, “it’s so exhausting pretending to be a functioning adult”.

InvictaMM Member
Invicta

Ha!
Two jokes for the price of one there Sphinx. You’re on FIRE:-)

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