Neptune Lilith Is Louche

Mark Seliger

Johnny Depp is Gemini Sun, Capricorn Moon and Leo Rising – but i think it’s his Lilith-Neptune in Scorpio that makes him so much like the louche muso boyfriend from your early 20s ideal. Ryan Gosling has this too. Incorrectly or not, it’s an aspect that makes females feel they could just be their darker selves around this dude, that nothing would be off limits. Obviously, their representation collaborates in the image making and all but still, there is something about Lilith on Neptune. Especially in Scorpio.


Image: Mark Seliger

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75 thoughts on “Neptune Lilith Is Louche

  1. Which lilith are we talking about? The asteroid or the hypothetical points?

    Also what about if you are female and have this? Does it cancel out the appeal in men who have it?
    Because i really feel ick ick ick about both depp and gosling. πŸ™ i know that is an unpopular stance here.

    • Ditto. Johnny seems sensually…sterile to me. Too cool in a disconnected way. And Ryan just looks outright goofy to moi…

      • Yes his sensuality seems misplaced. Gosling in particular is like an unsophisticated but “nice” dork on the inside, but because his exterior is attractive, girls go gaga. If he was ugly on the outside i don’t think his personality would be noticed much.

      • I would not call this trait vacuity. But I can see how it may seem like that. It strikes me that a good actor has to regularly, and wholeheartedly, become someone else, or allow room for that possibility in their daily professional scope. It is living in a separate psychological space. Strikes me that it’s difficult to leap from ‘present and engaged articulate human being’ to ‘the character you witness on screen/stage’ without allowing a loooooooot of space or elasticity, having to leave a lot of room, in the actor’s/artist’s headspace for such a transformation. So perhaps a lot of the time, it’s not a case of being vacuous. It’s having one foot (or both) in another world.
        Well, that’s how it seems to me.

        • I dont know any well so my comment doesnt carry much weight. But lve seen enough of those actors spruiking their movies with “how funny/difficult to work with this actor/director” and how bloody hard it is to earn $20m a movie / $60 pa, and a month off between shoots, when some poor bastard cant get any clean water to drink.

          • Most of us make nowhere near that type of money. We live by the seat of our pants, having to stretch our earnings until the next job. Acting is not for the faint of heart, what we go through to offer others an experience most folks could not sustain.

            • I agree with that. I understand that most dont get that level of reward. But when l see very well paid claiming that the dust, flies, costumes and locations “were horrendous”….pleeeeeze.

          • I understand what you are saying about the confusing economics of (mass) entertainment versus daily survival. It befuddles me too. It seems strange that these piles of money remain in silos, rarely if ever interchanged. the principles of thermodynamics don’t seem to extend to, well, econo-dynamics.

            At the same time, maybe it’s worth considering the several thousand *billionaires* on the planet and also those executives who command companies whose profits exceed that of the GDP of most nations on earth, to more fully scan where the liquidity lies around the planet…

            (I don’t know many actors either, but I know (visual) artists, and I believe that the principles are related)


        • Thank you for understanding. Very few outside our profession see the truth of what we go through to offer you, the viewer, a mirror back into your own lives. Hardest, and most rewarding job I’e ever had and I’ve done everything from menial labor to white collar work.

          • did you know this realisation that I have is the result of Saturn transiting my 5th house, and the Moon-pluto in Leo Piscean woman who for so long I literally could not understand. she is still who she is, but, BUT the principles of Leonic/5th house existence have, in a large part, become clear to me through her. I’m not talking about hairdressers and champagne [in the shallow sense at least]. I think Leo energy is about Productivity, in the true sense of the word. the 5th house is about children, falling pregnant, there’s not much on earth more freakin productive than growing another human being. 5th house is about creating a space for something new to exist. 5th house is about fertility, cell division, growth, the conditions for growth, acceptance of your SELF as the necessary and unequivocal , the *only possible* site for growth and production and comprehending the right of others to have the same. Given a lot of thought, this is actually incredibly deep and important. I think it’s why (haute) Leo’s want everyone to feel truly present, 110%, because what else do you have? Maybe for me it’s a bit more visceral as my 5th is ruled by scorpio, plus some other details..

            • I mean there is more to the 5th than the whole children thing , but I use this as an example I suppose

        • Feet in two worlds – very apt, Pi.

          For years I imagined actors to be well-trained liars.
          (A point explored in the recent Sense8 by the Wachowskis.) Perhaps this is, in part, due to my own aspects: Leo Venu/Jupes squ Neptune.

          Over time, I came to realize truly brilliant thespians are simply revealing the truth – recreating prisms of human behavior from a myriad of possibilities – all of which are found within themselves, their aspects & experience.

          Many are adept at observation – strong Gem/Merc placements are excellent mimics for this reason – nothing escapes notice. Yet, over intellectualize at the risk of being seen & felt as flash without depth.

          Riveting performances find us voyeurs to a reveal of truth which crosses all barriers to expose humanity at its very core. Survival, tribe, expression. Will of the beating heart.

          My will is manifest; not as yet in breathing offspring, but I create. Yes indeed.
          I celebrate those who explore via craft, ask the hard questions & probe the depths to provoke change and enlightenment.
          Art gives the collective hope.

          • yes!!
            I didn’t mean to place such a strong emphasis on , like, reproduction, I mean it as an allegory as much as anything else. But manifestation, totally… Like, Leo is *made* to “make stuff (up)” – creating worlds, and even as a group dynamic, everyone has to Show Up literally and figuratively (think of a band with a not so great drummer, etc, = no band).
            And yes the collective. It has a role. Transmuting, catharsis, new perspectives or understandings, new worlds to live in.

            What I am currently wondering about is Leo as royalty / leadership vs Leo as productive force. Is the common link the presence of the self, or the demand that others be ‘present’ also (am I going on too much here)

            I wrote this down the other day –
            Imagine – Create – Produce – Present – View – Appreciate / critique – Disseminate – Sustain

            • Understood. My ramble was born of pondering process rather than results, though I ended up addressing both.

              I think of it this way: Aries is near, moving forward. Sagittarius is over yonder, scouting. Leo is present, radiating. (sustaining)

              Now back to humans- had I any; romantic interests, or offspring, * my loyalties would be not as fully present in self-expression. (disseminate)
              * or other 8th house Leo obsessions

              Like all fire signs, Leo is kindred to inspiration and passion and encourage its growth in others. Radiate.(appreciate, imagine)

              Thanks Pi

  2. I once went out with a guy briefly who said he could “jump the fence” for Johnny Depp. I could understand that!

    • Ok, I don’t understand that; what does jump the fence mean?

      Also, I had to Google “louche.” Didn’t know what that meant either.

      I feel so square. Like, fixed square, with retro inner planets.

      • Jump the fence, in Oz, means to have sex. As in the next door neighbor is alright, “l’ll jump the fence to get to [her/him]”.

        • I’m in Oz too. Jump the fence in my circles definitely means to ‘switch teams’ and change your sexuality.

          • I worked in automotive workshops. It only ever meant going after someone you shouldn’t. In tradie talk, if you changed sexuality, you ‘batted’ for the other team. But l havn’t lived in a capital city since ’83.

            • Ha ha ha – very funny πŸ™‚ When he said it, I’m pretty sure he meant changing gender preference. And I have heard women use it to mean that as well.

              • As a euphemism-impaired retro-Merc, in the 12th house which means I naturally transfer the mind of the other, this kind of language use is pure comedy gold in my life.

                Imagine me, offering “fresh home-made yogurt” and talking about the last episode of Baum’s Oz that I’ve read, expressing myself literally, to someone who uses these terms euphemistically. Yo, WTF is “Oz” anyway?

  3. I think Johnny Depp is a more interesting person than all the roles he chooses would suggest. I think he is smart to choose all of those roles because it’s making him mass money. But I think he is more complex than that. I mean he was best friends with Hunter S. Thompson. I highly doubt Thompson would hang around with someone disingenuous….and you would have to be a weirdo at heart.

    But I have always had a soft spot for Depp and Thompson as individuals and for their friendship, especially since they are both from the town I grew up in.

    I have also always had a soft spot for this archetype of dark hair/dark eyes/dark soul, brooding poet type persona. Like the Jim Morrison’s of the world. SEXY.

    • I love some of his roles over the years but I found him deeply disingenuous when it came time to promote ‘The Lone Ranger’ and his unsubstantiated claims of Native heritage.

      People are complex, period. We all have our treasures and irks. Looking forward to seeing his latest role, his work with Burton has become a little tired so it’s good to see him step out from that HUGE shroud at least for awhile… πŸ™‚ <3

      • I liked some of his early roles. I think he has made smart business moves even though I was completely disinterested in a lot of his choices.

        Most actors and actresses have this multiple personality thing going on. I am not sure about his heritage. But it could be him getting into a role? Though I don’t think it’s justification for making false claims. I also know a lot of Geminis to wear many masks and believe whatever they are saying or projecting at the time. Later they will deny. I am not hating on Geminis, it’s just been my experience.

        Yes, people are complex! I think he has pigeon-holed himself and people may make generalizations about him but I always viewed him as pulling everyone’s strings…giving the public what they think he is.

        • I don’t mind Johnny – in fact I was in love with 21 Jump Johnny as a teen – but now… To me he lost his cool when he departed from his awesome seeming wife to date the very much younger Amber.
          He isn’t my favourite actor but in the right vehicle he can really add a zany flavour of fun. He has his place in cinema!

          I am not sure he knows who he is. Maybe he never did, but the Pan think is cute whilst young. I don’t know that he has much gravitas as he ages and I think I find that sexy now I am older myself.
          By the by he always said he was part Cherokee & proud of it though?

          • Yeah, I am not sure about his heritage and I was never aware of him saying he was or wasn’t Native American, or if it’s true or not.

            But it wouldn’t be too out of the question.

            I never really thought about it before but I do agree with you about losing something with his new relationship. He always chose interesting mates…like he had good taste in women… it kind of adds to the appeal for me. Not a fan of his most recent though, the little I do know about her.

            • Depp’s Eros is 1 Aqua in the 6th house. Psyche is 9 Scorp in the 4th. He also has Chiron in Pisces in the 8th. A little insight to his type.

          • I agree. Perhaps his relationship with his former partner had run its course. But to marry someone young enough to be his daughter so soon after – he seems like just another guy going through a midlife crisis. Who knows, maybe if I was a guy I would do the same thing.

          • I think many Americans have the lore in their family that there is ‘some’ Native blood there. Sometimes it’s truth and can’t be proven, and sometimes it’s just not true at all. I have a friend whose grandmother was Native but refused to tell anyone what tribe she was. Took it to the grave with her. She had her reasons for doing so, maybe the stigma she grew up with.

            • He has made mention of Cherokee, Cree, some vague aluding. He got pulled up on it pretty hard by Native American advocates come TLR era. Cherokee is usually the ones say they rep, lol.

              • The fact that he claims Native blood doesn’t bother me as much as the kerfuffle about buying Wounded Knee. When the story broke a few years ago, I thought it was so incredible that he wanted to buy the land to give back to the tribes. I just looked it up again and it never happened. Depp did buy a private island for himself and his wife/girlfriend/whoever she is though.

                • it’s totally disappointing that he didn’t buy the land. there’s probably a whole story to it though that we don’t know.
                  so many americans say cherokee “lol” because there were/are a lot of cherokees even after genocide and interbreeding has happened since forever. no more reason to laugh at claiming cherokee blood than to laugh at claiming dutch or turkish or whatever. plus, there are no full-blooded native americans anymore. i think for people to be honoring their lost heritage via their great-great grandmother is sweet and admirable and somewhat necessary, regardless of our human egoic foibles.

              • Johnny totally has Native American features though. Either that or he is part Inca.. The cheekbones, the small frame, the eyes.. I would be more surprised if he had NO indigenous blood. If he wanted to prove anything I am thinking a bloodtest would be quite affordable for him… In any case am really disappointed to hear he never returned any land to the people of wounded knee. But then if he did I imagine he wouldn’t be shouting it out either.

                • People think my sister is black because she has thick lips, prominent cheekbones and frizzy hair. She’s French and Croatian, lol.

  4. If you knew me personally, I would be the last person you would ask questions of actors and actresses to. However, I do find Johnny Depp sexy and I enjoy the movies of his that I’ve seen. This description of him struck a chord with me though, and prompted me to revisit Bitchcraft. My husband has lilith in pisces, which is like having lilith on neptune. He comes from the murky depths. 20 year old me was absolutely bonkers over him. Fortunately, he has aged like a fine wine but of course that wine can also get you into trouble.

  5. I have this same combo and yes, the Uranus and Pluto in Scorpio years taught me that Lilith will not be denied…pushing limits…defining taboo…OMG…then the Neptune in Aqua zing. It’s good to be a PIAB. πŸ˜‰

  6. Tori Amos has this conjunction in scorpio too, and trine chiron in pisces. Ive always felt totally seduced by the mystical darkness of her music, especially her earlier work. There is a strange haunting freedom in it, like the pain allows her to transcend everything. Love!

  7. I remember Johnny scored off the chart for Uranian qualities too..

    My green-eyed latin, Johnny-look-alike, saggEx has
    Venus conj. Uranus in Scorpio/8th.

    And Lilith conjunct Jupiter in Leo/5th.
    He had rock-star charisma!

  8. Ha, maybe it’s these actors who ping my Uranus in 5th house Scorpio. Then again most Scorpios do, haha. Depp I have the sense that he is more a partner in crime, I think it’s the mercury thing.


    (A whole conversation with myself just flashed though my head)

    I think it’s become clear to me what I need to buff out of my thinking and beliefs through July…

    Pi x

    • But also what appeals about these guys is possibly that they (well, any hetero guy in my case I guess) *prefer* messy/dark/complex/creative women. The freedom of being involved with someone who would not dream of telling you that you hair looks messy (I seem to date men who like girls with neat/done hair, what the fck), who says “good.” when you smear on an extra coat of eyeliner, who couldn’t give a shit what you’re doing, wearing, saying, eating, earning, as along as you’re not being a fake bitch to yourself or otherd. God, where are these guys? Haha.

      • Granted i havent seen many movies these guys have starred in, but i def would not call the Notebook’s lead female character messy and dark, nor Winona Ryder’s character in Edward.
        Or did you mean women in real life relationships with these women? Because last we heard from Gosling’s woman she was all about how we can’t wear sweatpants or relax our beauty standards if we expect to keep a man. I think she meant it in jest but that did come off sort of sad and dark.

        • oh ok I meant in real life. Boys with pisces and scorpio elements seem to like the sexy fuqed up messy poetic thing in a partner. (virgo rising men have dsc in pisces, ………. )
          I wonder if eva mendez is reflecting her own existence in tinsel-town and the extremely competitive aesthetics of that life. Perhaps her own background of latin-beauty-culture as well (is this a thing: I am being very presumptuous)

          Yes I detest the fearfulness that underlies “stay on your guard at all times unless you want that man to stray” it’s awful. and terribly disempowering. Like if the relationship ends it’s your fault for wearing those faded trackies that one time.

          • Well i am somewhat qualified to answer the latin beauty question as i am multi-racial but it really depends on which latin american country and socio economic class. Plus i can’t answer for every woman. Feminine beauty standards smacking of classic venus reign supreme like big rear and boobs, but the more upper class you get, the more there is a push to the Western white standard of paler skin, straighter hair, blonder hair, smaller body proportion. There is def. a slant towards beauty is painful. Beauty is a sacrifice. No woman shirks from wearing tiny heels to inaccessible areas, corsets, plucking or waxing huge swathes of your body. …all to protect your …a-hem…”property” … You learn to suck up pain with no complaints from the first day you are squeezed into a training bra. Not just outside beauty but also study arts like dancing, cooking, and just being sensual. Beauty is form of warfare we wage against other women basically. If you are a young woman, to show up in public in old ratty clothing, short hair, dumpy physique, no make up, etc… Is to say to the world of other women who want your man, “just take him”. To say you don’t care with your outside appearance is to say you don’t care about your insides.

              • Beauty is skin deep,
                Ugliness goes to the bone.
                Its not the packaging,
                Its the contents!

                • I agree PF. I am actuaally very wary of a woman (or a man) who are always 100% done up. I feelnsuspicious of what they are hiding.

                  • I have never approached an overdressed or over made-up woman. I find it off-putting; its like a facade. I actually ran away from a girl when l was 16 bcos she came at me with too much make up etc.

                    • But if it was your culture, you’d be expected to. You are answering this from the luxury standpoint of being outside that culture. So it is funny ha ha.

            • Yes, I so agree having spent my 20’s-early 30’s in south america Prince! That was a great read. It’s true that men and women all regard each other as property imho. I love the direct emotional connection that is part of romantic warfare there, as much as there are downsides too.

              • Yes, an upside is the passionate connection between people. If you are in with someone, you are really in. I don’t know if the young kids are still like that, but in the u.s. It is hard to figure out if a guy really likes you or not because he is too wussy/scared to even fully commit to liking someone.

  9. I’ve always had a soft spot for Johnny. In his youth he chose the more interesting roles and he also chose other interesting louches to hang with (Marlon Brando, Keith Richards, iggy pop, Hunter S Thomson, etc). I’m not sure that he was ever that louche himself. Ok, granted there IS a lilith-neptune pull to loucheness, but his Cap Moon makes it louche lite (there are just too many calculated moves in his life). These days i’m not sure if he’s not so much a louche as a douche tho ….. still plenty of time to prove me wrong, Johnny.

  10. A good bottle or two of dark red, perhaps a ciggie (yes/NOOO/yes), and a sing-a-long on an untuned piano to complement my singing voice. And maybe a touch of sun burn.
    Bang up for a bit of louche.

  11. I don’t understand what Neptune-Lilith means? Is the planet Neptune ON his natal Lilith at the time of his birth? How do you work that out? I guess that’s why I’ve enrolled in 99 Astro Hacks…..

    • Same problem. I can’t figure outwhich Lilith this is. There are like 3 liliths that i know of, most are imaginary points, but one is an asteroid.

      • Oh I figure it’s the asteroid. I just don’t get if it’s ON the planet Neptune or what that would look like in a chart, y’know?

  12. Ohh.. I’ve always had a thing for Johnny Depp.. but perhaps astrologically speaking it’s due to having a shared Moon in Capricorn with im.. and I’m a Sagittarius with my Mars in Gemini.. so it’s total appeal right there!

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