The “Prostitution Planets” & Femen

Marion Cotillard magazine cover March 2014

So tell me, how can you be playing two prostitutes this year, Marion?

COTILLARD: Um … Yeah, that’s a question that I didn’t really ask myself. [laughs] I don’t know why this year was all about that. Because even the video that I did for—

MITCHELL: For David Bowie.

COTILLARD: Yeah—was a prostitute.

MITCHELL: [laughs] Marion!

COTILLARD: I mean, it must be the planets.

MITCHELL: The prostitution planets are aligning.

 

From Interview Magazine March 2014

Interview does the best interviews.

Anyway, what’s funny about this is that Ms Cotillard has, in fact, just finished having Lilith over her Moon AND she’s got Uranus ON hernatal Lilith in Aries all year.  For more on Lilith, see Bitchcraft but how rad is this?

Actually, i was mid-cackle at what a strong activation of Lilith energy that would be when i remembered that i have Pluto – PLUTO – on my Lilith all year.

I think a good operating mantra for Lilith, apart from that she operates like a Lady Mars and represents the “whore” of the Madonna-Whore complex is that she is irreverent, fierce, feral female empowerment.

Inna Shevchenko – a core member of Femen – is Lilith in Scorpio conjunct Pluto AND opposite Venus. One of her fave sayings? No God In My Vagina. 

Femen fascinate me. They were founded in April 2008, with Lilith in late Scorpio square the North Node. But it feels like Uranus in Aries (from 2010) was when they really began to traction.

Thoughts? Topless feminist protestors Femen

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paganheart
paganheart

I think its beautiful and brillant to see all the comments here, and especially their differences…what a beautiful free world we live in, where can express to each other our deep truths, no matter the difference.(of course grateful to Mystic for her work and this discussion place) If the discussion got going because of a word like “prostitute” even better..because it shows how deep we all really are..how sophisticated and enlightened we are…Ladies we have won..we really have..we give ourselves that permission..and that is truly the beginning of taking our rightful place..beside, not behind. We stand beside each other in… Read more »

Andromeda
Andromeda

Ahh, you are sweet!

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Hear, hear! 🙂

paganheart
paganheart

Happy Days for The Wild Women of The World are here to stay..even if its a bit messy at times…Love is so the new elixir, along with a fierce sense of humor. Love to all of you..roaming in the invisible universe keeping the algorithms in check one comment at a time…;)

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Hello Pi, EMG, Andromeda, and MIM, I’m taking the discussion to a new post because the reply box keeps getting smaller and smaller! First of all, thank you Pi for your eloquent responses and your writing which I really enjoy. I for one will never complain if it’s more than the original article 🙂 You asked. ‘which now brings me to the question, if it were a woman who was leading the group, and she behaved the same way, would I be any more satisfied with the situation?’ Excellent question. In the case of FEMEN, my approach to leadership is… Read more »

Andromeda
Andromeda

Agree that Svyatski seems very smart – super trickster energy.
Certainly his comments make me think he could manipulate a situation to be seen in any number of ways.
To be good at claiming attention in the way he does, he has to be able to think like that.

Would love to know his birth date. Am betting on Virgo for the Sexy/Mercurial quality.

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

I’d love to find his birthdate too…and Inna’s too..and run a synastry for good measure!

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Ok, Inna is born on June 23, 1990:

Sun/Moon/Jupiter in Cancer

Mercury in Gemini,
Venus in Taurus
Sat/Uranus/Neptune in Cap and…

MARS IN ARIES!!

Bless her!!

Andromeda
Andromeda

Mars in Aries! 😯
Oh my.. plus Venus in Taurus.
It’s like the Divine Femme & Homme in absolute contrast yet rolled into one person. Interesting!

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Isn’t it such fitting astro for FEMEN’s “breast thumping”?!

And so much cardinal energy!

calypso
calypso

tell you what I’m feeling the Sun on Chiron….no wonder – trining Jupiter and sextile Pluto? Kaboom! there goes some old crapola! anyway, Lilith. Yes. Interesting thread btw, but I’m just going to tell you what brilliant realisation I woke to this morning, after that New Moon and this blog post, about my own Lilith. My Lilith opposes my Mars…I’ve mentioned that here a few times before but NOW I GET IT! for the first time (duh) I have factored in the house/sign details. It’s Lilith in 2nd house Cancer opposite Mars 8th house Capricorn. It’s me, being a Mum… Read more »

milleunanotte
milleunanotte

Pluto running over my Mars has ben far far better for me than when Mars ground over my Pluto, i can say this much. Pluto forces some grounding, deep deep grounding to an impatient and fired up Mars. I mean my Mars is nicely in Capricorn but it’s square four heavy hitting planets, which then form t-squares. I feel the Mars in Virgo transit brought out some of my frictional Mars square qualities, especially since it opposed my Sun (which is also square Mars natally). I have to say that Mars in Virgo transit also ran over my Lilith in… Read more »

calypso
calypso

yes, thank you Mille. I don’t have to wage a war between the matriarchy and the patriarchy. hmmm, they square my Jupiter/Merc, wonder if I can employ the smarts constructively for your suggestions.

Really, thanks! xx

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Sometime I wonder which can be more vicious, the patriarchy or the matriarchy!! 🙂

12th house virgo
12th house virgo

you can’t have one without the other 😉

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Hahahahaha… so true 🙂

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

By the way 12th house virgo,

Can you describe what effect vintage men’s Pluto on your AC has on you? Can you differentiate between their Pluto and your own pluto in the first house?

calypso
calypso

I’m just looking for a point when the cycle of intimidation that began when the NN rolled over my Mars might end. Maybe it will be when the NN comes around to my Lilith? 10 Feb 2019. Yes, that sounds better. I’m not sure about viciousness, but I’m doing OK at endurance 🙂

It’s interesting though isn;t it that the symbol of warrior feminine opposes the symbol of warrior masculine in my chart?

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

It is very interesting…how has it played out?

calypso
calypso

I’m sure it has other effects although in this case, in which I’m reading the 8H Cap Mars to represent my husband (masculinity in the house of partnership and the sign of established institution) opposing my 2H Cancer Lilith (female in the house of self esteem in the sign of the domestic) along my security axis, I see it as a blueprint for my strength to protect myself and hold a space of independence in the face of his attempts to disarm & control. Other then that I feel I can see the mechanisms of patriarchy fairly clearly and am… Read more »

Geminian
Geminian

I am about to have my Progressed Mercury conjunct my Natal Lilith in my first house in Cancer. Any thoughts, advice and ideas on what to do with it would be greatly appreciated. I was thinking of using it to write a screenplay about men. Or at least that’s my intention. I like the idea of the radical feminine investigating masculinity.

Isa
Isa

Just checked and Lilith is exactly squaring my natal Pluto in Libra, just chillin’ with the North Node. I suppose some crazy-sassy-powerful transformation is afoot.

Blue Moon
Blue Moon

btw
I HATE my hair cut and wish I’d left it alone.
Yes, it’s “stylish” blah blah blah
for me, being a woman with a strong bone structure and a big personality, short hair does not make me feel beautiful.
It is utilitarian and yes, perhaps chic but honestly.
Long hair is da bomb.
meh, it will grow and in the mean time I will style it up and rock this look but seriously. I wanna cry I MISS MY PRETTY LONG HAIR

Pegasus
Pegasus

Blue Moon, a radical cut takes 10 days to settle in after a few washes & blow outs (new lingo for blow-dry :-).
Remember this old maven said incremental trims, inch by inch. (sounds like a song).
Give it time, new moon cuts grow faster.

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

My condolences Blu Moon…I’ve been on the same boat…Let the tears flow…It won’t feel as bad in short while though..thankfully

sweetpea
sweetpea

Like I told my Mom one time when I had alot of weight to lose…”you can fix fat but you can’t fix ugly” 😆 Now days think that can even be fixed…but I’m just joking around. Co-worker said “whats the difference between a good haircut and a bad haircut? (my bangs had been cut too short…one male co-worker came up and said flat out “I don’t like it”…lol) Well, I hadn’t lilked it either…But the answer was “two weeks”…I’m sure you are lovely with the bone structure. KNow how I know that I need to lose weight? One of my… Read more »

Emg
Emg

I had bottom of the scapula length hair for my entire life until in 2000 I cut it off. Even got to pixie type very short and icy blonde. It was power and status and spoke about me at the time. Then about 18 months ago I decided that was it, I wanted my softer female back. I wanted to feel that woman, the one with flowing locks of warmer blonde hair. It is now sitting happily on my shoulders and although I sometimes wish it was cropped, especially after work outs with the thought of 30 minutes blowdrying every… Read more »

Andromeda
Andromeda

Hm, yes cut my hair yesterday.. It’s not long, it’s not short, it’s half long bob, half short.. I am not a bob person, it would imply I could work the middle path easily. It so happens I like extremes, so this is just confusing to see in the mirror.

Electric Eel Libran
Electric Eel Libran

How weird. My comments aren’t showing up on here.

Anyways, I believe Femen to be a scam run by anti-feminists to try to hurt real feminism.

Blue Moon
Blue Moon

seriously, no offence intended. I’m completely uneducated – left school at 15 to model full time so forgive my ignorance. I’m genuinely confused since this seems to come up a lot in conversations I have with women who are academically accomplished
my question is “what is REAL feminism?
no jokes or sarcasm
I really want to understand
can you hook a sister up with some info?

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Yes, what is ‘real feminism’?

eelelctric eel libran
eelelctric eel libran

I’m sure you guys are smart enough to Google “feminism” and find your own definitions of third wave, second wave, etc….blah blah.. that suit you. But truly it is easier to define what feminism isn’t. It isn’t some skinny white chick exploitation crap perpetrated by some bro dude trying to stir up controversy and divide sisters. Femen is a distraction to keep us from paying attention and focusing on what is really important.

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Very vaguely said *slow claps*

MiM
MiM

Capquatuari, this article is for you.

“Why won’t you educate me about feminism?”:

http://bellejar.ca/2014/02/22/why-wont-you-educate-me-about-feminism/

Pay attention also to the comments on that post – they contain many resources about definition of and reasons for feminism.????

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Hi Mim,

Thanks for the article -it’s wonderful -I would like to see if I can get it translated to other languages.

However, my question was a direct request to Eel to clarify his/her platitudes.

sweetpea
sweetpea

I don’t know…I never knew about feminism and all that. I was married at 19 and just went along with the flow. But i think society has made me a feminist in the sense that as I embraced my spiritual path it was absolutely necessary to be strong and that once your eyes are opened that just comes naturally. What I’ve come to realize is that that strength was in there all along but this world hasn’t exactly been prone to veering toward that for women. Put an other way, I’ve always been a feminist, just don’t think it necessarily… Read more »

sweeetpea
sweeetpea

Googled Glorias last name correct spelling but forgot to change it. Soz

MiM
MiM

Gloria Steinem ROCKS!!! Hard to believe she turns 80 this year. She has such class, style and INTELLIGENCE.

“You are not the boss of me.”

“It’s not fair.”

“Imagine a world where we are LINKED not RANKED.” (Bracelet here: http://www.maidennation.com/products/imagine-we-are-linked-not-ranked-bracelet)

By the way, kick-ass video with Gloria Steinem where she discusses, among other thing, the definition of feminism: http://youtu.be/TmFxFmrcngk

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

“some skinny white chick” -no, that doesn’t ‘divide sisters’ at all….or races for that matter… You should Google, if you are so inclined, ‘Manipuri Mothers of India’ and the ‘Women’s War of Eastern Nigeria’…Indian women and black women who successfully used naked activism long before FEMEN arrived on the scene. You might also discover that men have used naked activism as well. Last time I saw that happening was in Turkey’s Gezi Park protests. The service FEMEN provides is that it touches a lot of nerves. Exhibit A: Eelectric Eel. And that is the point – its ‘shocking’ acts are… Read more »

MiM
MiM

I don’t find nudity “shocking”. Nudity is very natural. What I do find shocking is ignorance and possible exploitation under the guise of human rights activism. I find shocking the blind acceptance (and support) for FEMEN by simply taking something at face value, without looking at the details, the core. I find the way Viktor talks about women in that article 180 degrees in contrast to feminism. So if he, as supposed leader of Femen, does not respect women, it indicates a chink in the whole ‘breasts as weapons’ armour. In same breath, I appreciate what Femen is trying to… Read more »

anon flux
anon flux

Personally I avoid the label because i find it divisive and leaves the power to choose how it is interpreted in the hands of others, whereas my actions without a label are able to be viewed without any of the stigma or dogma associated. People will inevitably label some of my actions or words as being feminist but I figure at least there is a space in between for some critical thought to be engaged. In the context of your question I think a lot of the strands of talk about the different kinds of feminism stems from the fact… Read more »

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

I’m very wary of labels myself.

Sidenote- Has anyone here read Phyllis Chesler’s ‘Women’s Cruelty to Women’

or ‘Tripping the Prom Queen: The Truth About Women and Rivalry’ by Susan Shapiro Barash?

I’m sure a Lilithian character can write a whole book of it on her own 😉

prowlncrab
prowlncrab

Perhaps you’ve just got issues with your mother and anytime someone disagrees with you, it stirs up some primordial seam of pain that is easier to project outwards and intellectualise as “women’s cruelty to each other” rather than what it actually is. Mim and electric eel didn’t agree with you – and you’ve been quite bitchy and pass agg about it. So what if someone disagrees with you? If you truly believed your own words you wouldn’t care less if others disagreed. Dressing it up as female rivalry is just plain naff. Sorry but whilst you are entitled to your… Read more »

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Prowl crab, another armchair psychologist who wants to control the conversation. You’re ridiculous. The manner by which you accuse others of exactly what your comment is guilty of is not only hypocritical, it is also banal. Grow up, stop projecting, and if you have a stance, justify it and spare us the passive aggression. It’s interesting that you somehow missed MiM and Eel’s snide comments and have no problem with comments like ‘skinny white girls.’ Speaking of Eel, am still waiting for a response from her. But I too am sorry Crab…I am sorry you feel threatened by me and… Read more »

Andromeda
Andromeda

Ok, really, this is blog is not the battle-ground for this conversation imo. Capqua I think you might consider taking that wonderful heat- seeking missile quality for truth you seem to have and apply it… to cultivating self-discipline & compassion. Where is your Mercury placed in all this? Why so intense? It really isn’t fun to see your wonderful mind applied to sarcasm, rudeness and bitcherel. Am saying this with all the love in my heart, as I hope you will stick about to contribute in a way that is cooperative and educational, NOT what that above was… I feel… Read more »

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Hi Andromeda, YIKES!!!: 🙂 I appreciate your comment and understand where you’re coming from and do feel it’s said with love. Thank you -it’s really not my intention to upset you or anyone on the mothership. I agree this is no place for ego driven bitcherel and really have no interest in continuing any discussion in this vein with prowl or anyone of similar disposition. Really, I was THIS close to ignoring prowl and ‘rising above’ (it is Mars retro after all!) but I sincerely found her comment to be out of line, rude, unfair, hypocritical, condescending and passive aggressive… Read more »

Andromeda
Andromeda

Am glad you feel the love.. but well Prowls likes to support those she feels are wronged & I think you hit a nerve with yr original ‘lack of nuance’ type sarcasm. “am probably going to feel sorry for prowl” ? Dunno, I hoped yr response would be a bit less loaded. Well, I like your questions if not your answers. Believe when I say ‘loads of compassion’ doesn’t get you into spats like that, intellectual arrogance might though. Anywayz, Cap Mercury in the 1st is a good place to start with understanding the pro’s & con’s of what happened… Read more »

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Really Andromeda? Her commentof ‘lack of commonese’ sen;was ok to you?

My naunce was a direcrt response to that.

You can pick sides, I’m fine i with hat, butat least
pretend

to
be
fair.

Andromeda
Andromeda

Oh.. Actually I read that as her supporting you! Well, I was seeing the haute side, that’s my weakness I guess. No matter, just want to see you shine, I know you can. Fair, not fair! I can’t really know if what I have written makes sense anymore as I am doing that one letter a line thing. Cap Merc in the 1st seems a powerful Mercury, don’t want to take sides, just want to see what you are going to do with your interesting Mercury now.

prowlncrab
prowlncrab

bitchy …. pass agg … and a psycho. Not going to bother responding to that ill considered rant since you’re just doing more of what you’ve already been doing and are obviously incapable of anything else. Oh well good luck with that.

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Just move on girl

Blue Moon
Blue Moon

I’m just smiling. 😀
Had never heard of Femen but just wrote to them asking how I could get involved and offering my skills, time and attention.
Because it’s a new moon I decided to go for the radical chop.
Now rocking a geometric, assymmetrical, very Japanese punk looking bob.
Coco would approve.
I had to fill in some form today for the bank pertaining to my job title.
I just wrote Occupation Goddess.

Emg
Emg

Occupation. GODDESS.
Best line ever.

Blue Moon
Blue Moon

Thank you Emg It is actually the subtitle for my book I wish I could give you a link but I don’t want to do “shameless self promotion on my favourite site. If you look for me on twitter or google my “real name” tho you might find a mock up somewhere online Am trying to do a kind of drip feed newsletter type thing with sexy cyber sound bites to drum up some publicity and media hype since I no longer have my old job- took all those ads down and got rid of all my clients and now… Read more »

Emg
Emg

Great news with your writing/book, you’ll sell a million or more. It could have been tough though diving off the “give up the day job” thing. But once you’ve done it, there is no way but onwards. As to Sailing, we have our course beginning next weekend for three weekends, so it is a time to reconnect and play in the classroom before we decide to take to the water. Main man had no education and is dyslexic, so suffers with his confidence around book learning. When we finished our last week on a boat taking our first qualification, he… Read more »

Blue Moon
Blue Moon

I don’t think they are odd Emg. I think we lead rich, beautiful, complex, original, creative and authentic lives. Mostly I think we lead emotionally brave lives. Right out there on the edge, where we belong. Rock on sister!

Emg
Emg

errrrr did I mention the young italian last saturday? Oh honestly, I spend my life trying to prune the dead wood (excuse the expression) from my life but I always have half a dozen hanging about. Trouble is I enjoy them on a two or three hour basis. As for honesty, yup this is honest. I have found the one who does make me feel like I have come home, and astounding feeling but I can’t think either of us will ever lock the door, equally I think there will always be a door wide open. I just watch with… Read more »

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

EMG, you’re our hero!!! Way to go!

Tell us about your Venus placement and aspects!

Emg
Emg

Hahaha my venus is a wicked creature. She is in my 3rd house of Gemini and she stands square to saturn chiron conj on my asc and square to pluto uranus conj on my DC. So she looks like she is in stirrups. Makes me intense deep strong weak and a flirt beyond measure. My girlfriends just laugh if we go out. It’s a standing joke that they can’t visit the loo or look away for two minutes before I have a flock of men around me. It’s gotta be my pheromones?!?!? And I really don’t want peeps to think… Read more »

Andromeda
Andromeda

Good luck with your new amor, sweetie. You don’t sound like you are bragging, it is what it is!

Mk
Mk

Where do you live EMG? Can’t see any of that happening in Sydney.

Emg
Emg

I’m currently in the UK but I would loveto giveit a goin Sydney!!
Could carryout anexperiment and see if my allure works upsidedown

Elise
Elise

Transiting Pluto conjunct my Lilith (and Vesta??) square natal moon at 11 all last year….. Wowzers.

Dyhana
Dyhana

I’ve got Lilith in Scorpio in the 8th…. right on top of and opposing Neptune, also in Scorpio in the 8th….. she’s trining my Chiron in Pisces in the 1st (I’m in the middle of my Chiron return and healing old sexual and other wounds, btw) she also trines my North Node in Cancer in the 5th….. I’ve never fit well into conventional relationship roles, does anyone, really? But I tend to love more than one person at once, have tried to talk about it honestly with partners, and it’s in a “can’t we all just get along, I love… Read more »

Emg
Emg

Will check out that link above, thanks Isabel. And keep your good work. I have embraced my whore totally and find empowerment through it. I have a completely different take on the way relationships need to work for me and whore is part of that. It’s taken me a long while to understand my needs and wants but now I do, it is a much better place to be. I love the use of the word feral to describe some of the lilith vibe. She really is kick ass. I have her in 12 pisces opp my pluto uranus conj… Read more »

12th house Virgo
12th house Virgo

I’d say so! But that pluto-Uranus combo on your DC is no light-weight either! I don’t think I’ve owned my virgin or whore completely yet.

Emg
Emg

I’m a bit of a radical female really. I adore men, mostly as playthings… but there is a totally soppy romantic in there too. But as mystic pointed out in my Phoenix reading, “no one but no one can fuq with my autonomy” She also has me down as captain of the power flirt team. She is soooo right.

Emg
Emg

Oh question…
What’s a virgin???

I’m sure you are doing what you need to do. Some girls need lots of emotional involvement, some need next to none, some want for ever and ever etc. And some have a quiet sexuality and others are totally wild. Just go with what feels right for you and don’t be scared or conditioned by the bickering of society.

Emg
Emg

Oh and while I am online, I’ve also got the idea that because I am north node 2nd house, taurus, it points to the fact that I was possibly a concubine in my previous life. Therefore I can hardly state I was a virgin when I got here this time. Lost it very early on, with glee!

12th house virgo
12th house virgo

Heck, I’d be the last one to know what I am. 🙂 Sun & Venus in the 12th. Psyche in Aquarius, Eros in Gemini. Lilith 13 Aqua 5th, Moon 13 Leo 11th. Chiron in Aries 8th house. I think I was a governor/sacred whore in a past life and quite an effective/popular one. I know her – the sacred whore/governor. Its weird…another time…another me. SN is Gemini 9th house. Here and now? I am just barely here and now and that’s my sex life too.

12th house virgo
12th house virgo

I lost it early too and with boredom. My parents played out the most stunning whore-virgin dynamic. Catholicism, paranoia and all.

12th house virgo
12th house virgo

The sacred whore/governor has sex with 12 guys at a time. Its a sort of ritual, blessing, and test of stamina for all those involved. Its how she earns her title, too, lol. And that kind of set up isn’t practical for me in this space time.

12th house virgo
12th house virgo

I was thinking how I like men of a certain vintage, the ones with their Pluto on my AC. They aren’t really the best mates for me, you know? Pluto on AC and all. But I am a first house Pluto myself. And a Pluto-Mars woman. I don’t know the right outlet for all that. Living, I suppose. My 12th house shit really fucks up the living bit.

Emg
Emg

My word you have a lot of work to do to get through what you were handed. All that up front pluto and Catholic church, that’s a cocktail and a half.
As to vintage, I don’t have a vintage at all but what I amaze myself with is that all my lovers and I mean all my lovers and even close friends are Leo rising or Leo. It is bizarre.

Andromeda
Andromeda

Surely not that bizarre.. 😉 .

Emg
Emg

Well ok I get it. But all of them???

Andromeda
Andromeda

Hm. What’s yr 5th House like? My hub’s is stacked & most his friends are Leo too.

Emg
Emg

5th house is cancer and contains my sun and jupiter!

Emg
Emg

Looks like I am simply chasing my own light doesn’t it.

calypso
calypso

oh good obs Andy! I have a packed 5th too, and love my Leos x

Andromeda
Andromeda

The SUN & Jup. Well shine on Lioness lady..

12th house virgo
12th house virgo

Same here! Not all, but def a trend with Leo mates. I have a Leo moon, so it makes sense, Sun-Moon alliance and all

Emg
Emg

Well Andi thereis no hiding from you! You’ve hitthis lioness spot on. Always thought I wasfishyer and havelots of piscesarounddue to my Asc but I always chase the leos.

Blue Moon
Blue Moon

Emg, my NN is also in 2nd house but in Cap
No wonder we get on so well.
We probably worked at the same Byzantine brothel 🙂

Emg
Emg

Yup felt an immediate connection to you. Your NN is hard core then. Mine is hanging out in taurus, still wanting life to be a field of daisies !

isabel
isabel

femen is run by a man ( http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/the-man-who-made-femen-new-film-outs-victor-svyatski-as-the-mastermind-behind-the-protest-group-and-its-breastbaring-stunts-8797042.html ) who picks who goes nude for their (often racist) campaigns.

also, i’m a sex worker and if you could use that term to refer to us it’d be much appreciated. ‘prostitute’ has negative connotations associated with illegality & loss of self, neither of which are applicable to sex work (in australia, where it is legalised/decriminalised). you have a large readership and things like this can reinforce bad attitudes towards us which make it all the more difficult to live our lives like people with ‘straight’ jobs.

Pi
Pi

Wow, thanks for sharing that link Isabel.

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

I don’t see any problem at all with the founder of FEMEN being male. Is that supposed to be taken negatively? In fact, I think it’s great.

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

I also don’t see how FEMEN is racist at all. Please explain.

pi
pi

I think its something to do with the fact that he is bossman and seems also to be something of a tyrant. And still using the sex appeal of younger women to get attention. Did you even read the article???

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Of course I did. In fact, I read it as soon as it was published. Every organization needs a boss -male or female and where leadership styles vary.

The beautiful naked body is used to draw attention to the cause by women who chose to do so – a cause which states that a woman has sovereignty over her body: she can choose to be ‘sexy’ or not. She can choose to be clothed or not.

It’s called marketing.

Once again, what is the problem?

Pi
Pi

I think his leadership style is somewhat contrary to the message and target audience of the group. *If* the article is accurate, he does not at all appear to be about empowerment and self-determination for women, which I’d like to think if he operates with integrity would start with his own team.

Pi
Pi

not to mention their own safety.

Pi
Pi

what i’d really like is a more in-depth interview with him and some of the members/protesters. Maybe he has an interesting lilith aspect in his own chart, which drives his passion (?) for the cause. But I keep coming back to, and can’t get past, how he treats his own people. I can see many aspects of the argument so I could probably type for ages but i have to do stuff that involves Not The Internet dammit

LaLuz
LaLuz

The word “prostitute” is pretty neutral to me. It’s not “whore” which is, indeed, derogatory. “Sex worker” is more politically correct, but that does not give it exclusive rights. ~ I really dislike the PC police and its oppressive word-shaming. Using only approved terminology? Copulate that!

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

I co-sign to that LaLuz.

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Also, politically correct terminology doesn’t solve tricky intellectual problems.

If ‘sex work’ is indeed like any other work, say, nurse, or teacher, or salesman, should people on unemployment benefits be obliged to take up sex work should an opening become available?

paganheart
paganheart

First , anything about the aspect in Lilith fascinated me. Lilith of course being the archetype repressed part of the feminine in us..female and as well as male. I think that is its quite powerful that “Isabel” states who she is and sets the record straight..thats a form of sovereignty in itself. I have also found its quite rare to have a comment from someone who works “the other world”, commenting among many of us who do not work in that occupation. There is no status in this discussion, her being a sex worker, and rest of us not..because of… Read more »

sweetpea
sweetpea

Thank you for your post Paganheart…Loved … “Lisbeth (the girl with the dragon tattoo) is one of the most powerful images of Lilith, or a woman who chooses her own fate….However she is alone on her journey~ With Psyche conjunct Moon in 8th that is nothing new and yet in the zap zone as I am, am at a crosroads as to if I’m going go choose the fate I have been literally trained for or just go down in ignorance with the rest of the masses… Naturally, as Aries, will rise to the occassion and Pisces doc helped too… Read more »

Veronica
Veronica

@Capqautari

Re your question, living in Holland for example where sex work is legally recognised, doesn’t mean women must consider that as an option if they were out of work in their regular job.

Capquatuari
Capquatuari

Hi Veronica…I know 🙂 it was just a theoretical question to illustrate the pitfalls of a label designed to connote that selling sex as a commodity is exactly the same as selling other commodities and services. Come to think of it, maybe ‘sex worker’ is the sanitized politically correct word for prudes 😉 I’m most interested in why there are people who think: a. FEMEN is racist (?!) b Why a man at the helm or as the source of vision for this movement would pose a problem. c. Why some people appear to be more offended with FEMEN’s half… Read more »

Pi
Pi

hi capaqua, i responded above, but wanted to add that the question of racism or nudity is not the part that i take issue with, nor perhaps the leadership gender issue in itself. NTL if even the women in an outspoken feminist group with international media coverage continue to defer to men (/a man) for leadership, then what message does that send? Perhaps the point of femen is not about this, it’s possible. Maybe it is to shock and generate controversy and conversation / argument (tick 🙂 ). T The last paragraphs in particular concern me. Everyone seems paradoxically aware… Read more »

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Hi Pi, Thank you for your thoughtful answers 🙂 I’m new to the commenting system and getting a hang of keeping track of comments and replies 🙂 You are right that this issue can be seen from so many different angles. We can totally spend a lot of time going through them 🙂 I’ve read many articles -many erroneous and confused and others more balanced-which is fascinating in and of itself -the visceral reaction people have against FEMEN. According to this campaigner, she says that many of the women are psychologically dependent on him. If it is true, I am… Read more »

Pi
Pi

I get the rebel activism thing. A lot of my astro backs that up although the beliefs and feelings came first if you know what I mean. I understand all this. I get that the point is to confront and offend sensibilities challenge entrenched beliefs strike fear into the hearts of men etc. BUT I still personally do not support at all his attitude. I see it as unnecessary, not constructive, nor sustainable. He strikes me as wanting to stay on top. I suspect/wonder if any of those women challenged him in a significant way he would have great difficulty… Read more »

MiM
MiM

Capquatuari, did you read the article, or scan it? Insofar answer to your question b and c, here you go: When the Femen founder finally spoke to Ms Green, he sought to justify his role within the organisation and acknowledged the paradox of being a “patriarch” running a feminist protest group. “THESE GIRLS ARE WEAK,” he says in the film. “They don’t have the strength of character. They don’t even have the desire to be strong. Instead, they show submissiveness, spinelessness, lack of punctuality, and many other factors which prevent them from becoming political activists. These are qualities which it… Read more »

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Mim, read this article many times. In fact, I find the title very biased and juvenile. “OUTS” the leader of Femen as being male? It strikes me as so tabloidy and assumes that a leader of a female group cannot be male and should be a taboo. [Sidenote, I would like to see a more indepth interview of him as well before passing Judgement] I believe that men and women should work together for universal human rights and do not discriminate against sex as long as the job gets done. As far as his comment: “THESE GIRLS ARE WEAK,” he… Read more »

Emg
Emg

I can absolutely see where you are coming from here and I for one don’t have a problem with his admittance that he possibly subconsciously he wanted to gain women. And I am not fussed it is a guy at the helm as such as we are wanting to gain an equality which is so long overdue. For man and woman to stand united in humanity. What I feel we are missing here is the understanding that the sexes are very different and yet totally compatible if we could only be the real thing. For me women should quietly but… Read more »

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

A
M
E
N

MiM
MiM

“I think its great that people (male or female) would have someone to teach them qualities that they were previously lacking.” Teaching (with compassion and purpose of empowerment) definitely has its place, BUT in this instance, am I to believe, with a straight face, that these ‘poor women’ didn’t and couldn’t realise/own/action their own power? That they needed a (male) teacher to ‘show them the way’? That they couldn’t really figure it out on their own? Bull. Inna Shevchenko of Femen says in “Femen let Victor Svyatski take over because we didn’t know how to fight it” (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/05/victory-svyatski-femen-man): “When he… Read more »

Andromeda
Andromeda

Like your questions Capaqua!

Welcome on board the Good Ship Mystic…

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

*salutes* 😉

It’s good to be onboard Andromenda!

sweetagnes
sweetagnes

PETA feminism! I read the link. The head behind Femen, the male, has an agenda. Has that gotten in the way of the mission and purpose of Femen? I find it interesting except for the head of Femen. He could be their downfall based on what I’ve read in that link.

Capquatuari
Capquatuari

Yes he does have an agenda.

His agenda is to assault and ridicule the ideologies and cultures that justify the violation of universal human rights for women.

MiM
MiM

Oh please Capquatuari.

Ffs read the article.

In his own words Victor Svyatski said that ‘getting girls’ was, for him, behind the creation of Femen.

Again, clear as day for all to read in the freaking article: “Mr Svyatski insists to Ms Green that his influence on the group is positive. However, when he is asked directly whether he started Femen “to get girls”, he replies: “Perhaps yes, somewhere in my deep subconscious.”

sweetpea
sweetpea

“somewhere deep within his subconscious” he’s lookin’ for those 40 virgins before he dies cuz not sure if his wee-wee gonna have the same sensation on the other side…

😆

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

An honest self-reflective answer such as “Perhaps yes, somewhere in my deep subconscious.” is contorted to mean that this man does not care for human rights at all and just want to get laid?

Interesting. We should burn him at the stake ASAP.

MiM
MiM

Common sense is not a flower that blooms in everyone’s garden.

sweetpea
sweetpea

Geeze, nobody has a sense of humor tonight.

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Tell me about it sweet pea…kudos to you for keeping yours 🙂

MiM
MiM

Sweetpea, your sense of humour is highly valued & appreciated! 🙂

My comment above was in response to Capquatuari’s comment.

Capqautauri
Capqautauri

Nor nuance, apparently.

Pegasus
Pegasus

Personally i prefer performer, or performance art. ‘Prostitution’ is now used to describe nasty corporations who sell us out.
Caroline Myss has many good things to say about ‘women in the game’ and their honesty. I think they are the true outlaws of the world and ‘to live outside the law-you must be honest’ (Bob Dylan).

sweetpea
sweetpea

I like that Pegs!

paganheart
paganheart

Isabel, I would be interested in hearing your opinions about all the comments below…

paganheart
paganheart

Isabel…I am interested in what your opinion is on the opinions below..or your reaction. Also what do you think of femen?

12th house virgo
12th house virgo

So, is Lilith transiting the moon a good thing, like, sex wise? Moon in Leo here!

The only thing I like about Femen is the idea of nudity being a political statement by those who are generally oppressed/managed/controlled for/through nudity. But, yeah, they are too…stylized, imho, to be a genuine grass-roots thing. Still, seems very Pluto-in-Scoprio-Ukraine-style. I don’t support violence against men, but I don’t live in a culture where sex trafficking is so close to a common job path either.

Silver Huang
Silver Huang

I’m all for the shock factor to wake people up but I have to say that I disagree with one of the title images on the Femen web site, where a woman is holding a sickle in one hand and a pair of bloody balls in the other. Not all men are violent and patriarchal. This is not a war against men per se, but a deeply entrenched way of life that has existed for hundreds of years that has been perpetrated not only by men but by women as well. I do not believe in violence versus violence. Energy… Read more »

fallen angel
fallen angel

Honestly, I’m wondering if being fit is a requirement to join Femen. They manage to look like a photo spread somehow..and everyone has awesome boobs. Howevs, I do agree that there are some years where whore becomes a more pronounced theme in one’s life, different aspects of it, etc. Personally, I think it’s really constant, even if it’s not so in your face. I also tend to see it as that part of the feminine that is so in touch, so limbic that it accepts all truth, not just withstands/tolerates it sans having to bludgeon it into more desirable packages… Read more »

MoonLilith
MoonLilith

Excellent! Also have Uranus conjunct Lilith at the moment, plus Jupiter square Lilith and Lilith trine Jupiter. Doesn’t seem to be manifesting in a particularly Lilithy way though, alas. It’s all laundry and cleaning the fridges at the mo.

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