How To Make Nice With Neptune?

Mermaid modern fashion

Hi Mystic,

I never thought of myself as all that Neptunian—it’s not really an energy or paradigm that I relate to. But as time goes on and my astro- and self-knowledge improves, I’m beginning to see that this is a planet that is critical to me, and I have no idea how to make nice with it.

Point of fact: My Venus is in Pisces (trining Jupiter) and I have a long history of infidelity. Like, all of it. Every single relationship I’ve been in, no matter how beautiful or strong they’ve been, have ended in me cheating on the person I’m with, and bang-on after a year and a half of being in it has elapsed. More recently I thought I had broken that cycle, as I’m extremely compatible the person I’m currently with and really don’t think I’ve felt a love like this before…however, my less than ideal nature has reared its ugly head again and I’m finding myself in the same situation.

Desperate to get a handle on it, I searched about “infidelity” on your site and came across your Mystic Infidelity post. I was skeptical about your assertion of a “cheating astrological signature” and then checked my chart; et voila, there’s Neptune fuqing my Venus, just 2 degrees off.

I’ve (consciously) denied the Neptunian in myself for long enough now. And in some beautiful twist of irony, Neptune just edges into my 12th house in Capricorn, and it literally does feel like my House (or Planet) of Undoing. I feel like Neptune is the source of all of my weaknesses, and I have just absolutely no idea how to work it.

I’m hoping to get some advice on how to do Haute Neptune in my chart and my life, and channel the energy into something productive that works with me instead of against me. I usually can’t help but wrinkle my nose at hippie/woo/”transcendental” stuff (my usual understanding of Neptune), but at this point I’m kind of willing to try anything.

Sincerely and with Love,
The Uranian Aries Pragmatist

My Dear Uranian Aries Pragmatist,

Are you referring to the Ten Astrological Styles Of Infidelity?   If so, i think you just go with the Uranian style, right? You being an Aries and all? You know, you’re not an infidel or anything so dark ages – you are a polyamourist. An omni-sexual. Yes? No?

Or okay, remember that Venus-Neptune people and many Pisceans PREFER relationships that feel magical and spiritual, that involve an element of yearning and crushing without even a HINT of bickering in the IKEA carpark with a hangover or having to do some in-laws crap/explain expenditure on aura-enhancing lip gloss, whatever. 

And then this frees up the person to do funky art and spiritual activity, be free and yet feel “in love.”

It could also be, as the eminent Jungian astrologer Liz Greene suggests in this genius essay, a kind of fuqed up repeat of some dynamic with your parents.  Relationship triangles are an archetypal dimension of human life, she says. We do not ever fully escape them. We also tend to handle them rather badly when they enter our lives. That is understandable, because triangles are usually evocative of very painful emotions, regardless of the point of the triangle on which we find ourselves.

So go read THAT little bit of biz and Jung out.

Other ways to get your Neptune on – Meditation, a compassion practice a la charity or restructuring your life to be more kind to less powerful creatures, developing a spiritual consciousness and bliss vibe that does not rely upon a crush to activate, Yoga, especially Yin…Trying to gently rid your romantic vibe of Love Zombie, compulsive or addictive tones.

What does everyone else think? 


Image; Tim Walker – UK Vogue December 2013

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102 thoughts on “How To Make Nice With Neptune?

  1. Dear Uranian Aries Pragmatist

    So you’ve got a Neptunian Capricorn (horny goat) hiding in your house of secrets eh? 😉

    Addictive and/or compulsive behaviours speak of what one feels one is lacking on a core level – the compulsion acting as a release valve for this unnamed “lack”. Shed some light on it, do some journalling using free association and see what comes up.

    This need for “free love” could actually be a yearning for the unconditional love of spirit which is given freely with no conditions. Unfortunately you ain’t gonna get that from any human being I know of – only spirit can provide that.

    You could also try the opposing force cure by looking at your 6th house of service, which I assume would be in Cancer …. try practicing the art of giving through a Cancerian lens – empathetic, compassionate, up for giving a sympathetic ear along with a blankey and a warm bowl of soup. Might be a challenge to your Uranian Ariesness which possibly needs some work on correct attachment (from a spiritual point of view) rather than the extreme detachment you are probably more comfortable with.

    …. or maybe you could pay $450 bucks to get your aura cleansed? heh heh 😉

    • Ping back : The Aura Gurney…
      Last thread in Answer to Pi.
      Bring your schmozzle we’ve got the nozzle !

      This week only $350 for each of 5 treatments.
      Aura is violet or your money back !!!

  2. You could just, you know, not go there. Astrology isn’t destiny. Keep your knickers on, or live with screwing over every person you love.

    • Amen to that!

      I’ve got a 12th house Venus square Neptune and never was a cheater because its …wrong. I thought Neptune made you fall for untrustworthy types not necessarily be untrustworthy. Either way – I think he-she needs something better than Neptune as an excuse.

    • Sounds like sex addiction, not an astrological dilemma.
      Screwing every person you love is a heavy karmic burden to bear.

  3. I empathise! I’m pretty neptunian and get bored in relationships pretty easily–and hey, at least you’re aware of the pattern and wanting to do something about it?

    I say either stay strong and channel that schizz into art, beauty, film, whatever else is neptunian (isn’t jewelery considered Neptunian?) (is that why Liz Taylor collected diamonds AND husbands?) or be blunt with your lovers and say “Honey, I’m gonna want to see other people…I am polyamorous” and give them a copy of The Ethical Slut (good book!).

  4. Great letter. You answered yourself in there. This is a reoccurring theme, others call it infidelity when that’s not what you see it as. That’s Neptune right there.
    I have Neptune in scorp , 5th house. Venus in Taurus. I feel your dilemma on following your bliss.
    Once you work out that that is who you are and let your Neptune play uninhibited, other people come into your life, different people or the same people with a different view, a more accepting view of who you actually are.
    Enjoy yourself, a lot of people won’t like it but if your upfront, truthful …(Aries) electric and quirky (Uranus) friends are just waiting for you.
    The 3 thing you mentioned is very interesting Myst. Triangulation in relationships is difficult but also necessary for our growth. I learnt this and try to put it into action in my own relationships. One on one or two is 2d relationship, one to two or three adds dimension or consciousness. Every one on one relationship has a key third ‘person’ in it. If you work out who or what that is and work with it, does wonders all round.

      • Hah ! You should have seen the response I deleted 😀

        The word the OP used was “cheating” not “openly being polyamorous”. Got no problems with the latter; but cheating is a shitty thing to do to someone you are supposed to love.

        Probably been spending too much time on the Chump Lady blog recently, but I have no time for cheating. There are plenty of people out there looking for polyamorous relationships, but its just cruel to start sleeping around on someone who thought they were in a monogamous relationship.

        Just be upfront about it ! “I’m feeling attracted to X and I would like to start a sexual relationship with them”. If your partner goes “I can’t live with that” then have the grace to gently and lovingly end the relationship and next time be completely upfront at the start of the relationship.

        But cheating …? Ugh.

        • Yup. Using the so called “being true to oneself” thing as an excuse for deception and hurting others doesn’t fly with me. But being honest about your style of relationships is fine if everyone knows what they’re up for at the start.

          • I guess I either discerned a presumption of that kind of openness/clarity in DL’s comment or assumed it was an underlying his advice due to notions of Aries directness 🙂

            • yeah, he says “if you’re upfront”….or maybe it’s something else I’m missing, anyways xx

          • Because ultimately the biggest hurt will be from breach of trust.
            Having been on receiving end of both the upfront player and the pretend soul mate- I have no issues with the player and still chat now and then. The faux soul mate. I tried. I tried so hard. But eventually gave up trying to accept what he had done. You can’t say you love someone and how they’re the one and then the next day run off on a fling with someone else without causing serious damage.
            It’s the lies and deception that still make me purse my lips and furrow my brow years later if I see him.

            • This has been my experience too. When someone is upfront, then its unlikely you would come to genuinely love them. But if they are not, then you are essentially being deceived into giving your heart. Which is the most vulnerable thing you can do, only to find that had this person been honest, you would not have done so. I had this experience last year. I still feel traumatised. It greatly affected my ability to find work, I lost considerable income and confidence and found it difficult to maintain the activities I enjoy. So I am in agreement that this dilemma goes over and above astrology and into our responsibility, as best as possible, not to hurt others. Not to harm others with our sexual activity. The man I was seeing is Venus in Pisces, as a by the by, with just terrible boundaries. But there are also sociological reasons for that.

              • Mitra, my experience a few years ago with a cheating/dishonest partner echoes your sentiments. Not only did it destroy our relationship and a very close bond; it affected every aspect of how I saw myself. I had absolutely no confidence or belief in myself. I remember I had started a new job when we were trying to work all of this out, and I’ve never felt more uncertain of my professional abilities than during that period. It took a long time to overcome that. And it really clarified my thoughts on infidelity, which had been ambiguous up to that point.

                • I know what you mean about clarifying these thoughts. Until I went through this, I thought infidelity was something I could cope with.

              • I remember feeling so small and so gullible. But it resulted in working out my boundaries when before I was just grateful to be loved or think I was loved but have no line drawn for what I wouldn’t accept. It took a long time.
                It was a life lesson but a very unwanted one.
                So many of us have been at the receiving end of this behaviour but at the time feel so alone.
                Little by little,
                good comes to find us again.
                When we’re ready.


            Basically advice on how to deal with being cheated on. She’s pretty uncompromising…

            And no, nothing happening at my end 🙂 Following up on a discussion on one of my other forums, and discovered its compulsive reading !

            • oh wow. ok. she sure thinks a lot about infidelity. I have my own responses to cheating but that’s for another post no doubt!

        • I have Venus in Capricorn so no cheating for me. Wouldn’t do it and wouldn’t put up with it.

          And I also have a lot of Virgo in my chart – the germs! The germs! Eww. Lol.I don’t want to feel like I’m kissing a toilet. (Although I give my cats kisses and they lick their butts…)

          • I’m a Venus in Cap too (we may have bonded over this in the not-so-distant past, Porkchop) – never made that correlation before but that makes perfect sense.

            • i think venus in cap can be cautious in love, as well as loyal and in it for the long haul (which can be bad too, if you stay in a relationship past its natural expiry).

              i’ve also read that venus in cap is very discrete in love – so true for me! i am a bit like tht in general. if i ever sell a novel i will be publishing it under a pen name! 🙂

          • Venus in Cap here too. I have never cheated on someone, but I was the Other Woman for about 5 minutes. It was the dark side of Cap; I could logic my way through to what I wanted.

            But like I said, I was only briefly involved (less than 48 hours, didn’t even sleep together) before what I was doing sunk in past the loneliness & lust. Then the Cap was back, cutting through my illusions/delusions & making me end it instantaneously. Still makes me feel ick. Could not do it again, in any capacity. Have nightmares about cheating regularly, leave me feeling horrid.

            Sounds like I still have some work to do, now that I read that. Thanks!

            • after trying to hold on to my loser ex for way too long after he dumped me, and finally feeling like i have done ‘the work’ and have come out the other end, i have no interest in affairs or chasing after someone unavailable. it is too much drama and i don’t want a relationship that bad!

              but i guess who knows what i would REALLY do if a super hot, funny guy with a girlfriend / wife threw himself at me… maybe i would just go ‘f$ck it!’ i like to think i would do the right thing by me and say ‘thanks, but no thanks’ but maybe i would go weak…

              well done for using venus in cap foe good: 😀

              • Hey pork chop:
                I’ve weighed up a similar thing. What if someone attached but whom I strongly desired made a move on me? And I was surprised to reveal this in my heart: I’d still be second best. His partner would still be his partner. So discovering that I didn’t want to play second fiddle to anyone, where my heart was at stake. If it was pure lust, I’m not sure what action I would take, but it might also be along similar lines, whether its love with a capital L or “just” sex (lol.), we still do the same things with our bodies, the physical equation is the same … So.. Yes. Second best isn’t for me. Or anyone I hope 🙂

    • Speaking of Uranian polyamory ….

      So David, I was hesitant to ask this before and don’t mean to be an insensitive Arian but you seem to be back to your usual robust form…what was Michael Hutchence (Aquarian) like when you worked with him??

      I was watching the mini series the other night, and there were so many scenes of nubile women flowing bouncing around. I never thought he was that attractive myself, but he obviously really had something?

      • He had something all right. Legendary root and despite some of the stories about him, fantastic manners. Deep interest in esoteric subjects. Meditated. Used words like “yoni” and “transcendental” in casual conversation. Paula was a shocking influence on him imho.

        • He looked like he had a sweetness about him, and I listened to his lyrics properly the other night, clearly a poet.

          Yes I read Paula Y’s bio, and she had some deep paternal abandonment issues, and not a good influence at all. Not a fan of Sir Bob’s either. All those daughters look sad, except for the eldest who seems to be a bit of a twat

      • Maybe Michael was like one of the prototypes for the metrosexual, showing a little more of his feminine side ? Women loved it ! That said , With The Kick album they styled him to suit the US market…black leather jacket a bit more rocker style etc …worked a treat.
        When they came to our studio to make Need You Tonight we had been told to not mention it to anyone etc. they were a lovely normal bunch of guys. Anyway all the different units at the studio seemed to have extra female staff working for a few days, it was funny. Over 3 days people relax and we all had a ball.

        • that is awesome. MH was my first human crush (ie. Batman was first crush afaicr.. oh ok and a kindy boy i guess). I was a kid when The Swing and preceding albums were released. oh ok all of the albums i guess if we’re talking voting age.

        • So give me a moment , I’ve got to let you know , I’ve got to let you know … Your one of my kind …

          He visited me once after he passed . Was wearing a gold suit and appeared in my lounge room while I snoozed in a chair. I had just been living the life of a hobo in Mt Warning for 8 years after losing my studio and wasn’t sure why I’d headed back to Sydney. He basically gave me a prod and told me my girl was close ! I met my wife soon after. I still owe it to his help. The story goes deeper but not for here.

          • Oo, Mt Warning also a men’s sacred site too, I understand?

            I suppose if you’re going to pay attention to anyone it might as well be him in a gold suit! That’s awesome. You guys must have vibed well!

          • Thanks for talking about it, was very curious and I thought of you as I was watching. That era is evocative for me, I can remember being on Oxford st. one night and someone saying Kylie and Michael are just up the road!

            His younger brother moved into a house in Surry Hills that I moved out of, he took my room. It was a bit too wild and rock & roll for me, everyone would be up all night on E, I would hide in my room and paint

    • Davidl, if-you-see-this: Can you give an example of a third ‘person’ in a relationship to give an idea of how that works? Most interesting!

      • Could be a friend who knows you both, could be one of your inlaws, could be an ex , could be a child . Anyone really who somehow either helped in bringing you together or helping you stay together, who has the power to influence you both, loves you both.
        In Merkavah (chariot/light vehicle) myticism, the idea is that 3 souls create a plane that is them connected with another plane of 3. These planes make up the vehicle that allows transport thru the cosmos and other dimensions.
        The new ‘temple’ in the revelation of the future for those that follow the merkavah tradition is this vehicle. Thousands of planes of 3 joined to form a massive light vehicle. UFOs are not from higher dimension. Vehicles of higher dimensionals are composed of the light bodies of their ‘passengers’.

        • Aha! I like!

          Would be so great if people were were all on the Enlightenment Train and could perceive this. You could really fly!
          I am not yet thinking any couples who are capable of this interaction. Individually yes, but two or three? Not common.

          Creating universes, or triumniverses (?) in this case – is our joy I suppose. The only way to really live! I wonder what side-effects it would have on the space/experience of our dimensional reality.

          Is this Drunvalo Melchizadek work or is this something different? I know you have interest in the Kabbalah, so I was curious if it came from a different source. If there is a way to describe it that isn’t too personal, how have you seen it play out in your life?
          I am not sure I can see a way to use this information right now in my own life.

          • There are two distinct roads to travel in Hebrew mysticism .. One is Kabbalah the other Merkavah.
            Merkavah is rarely taught and is considered potentially dangerous to anyone who is taught without the right background. The difference between them is large and leads to different outcomes. It would take me a long time to explain my understanding though I would like to.
            Merkavah is light vehicle, as mentioned it is composed of the light bodies of participants. To find your third in any situation start with easy ones. Eg you and your 2 closest friends ? They may not be friends with each other but if you bring them together with you and bridge the gap, soon you will have created another note in the music that wasn’t there before. All are enriched. Once this has been practiced you will notice that the 3 of you are like corners of a triangle and that other triangles are appearing. Like you learn the note, you hear it with someone else and recognize it. As you join, and develop the new chord you realise that together you can travel much faster and further than you would as an individual light body. Merkavah can be composed of many thousands of souls. They are the transport technology for exploring the cosmos.

  5. not sure if this will help, but one thing I came across in my musings about my crushes was that I didn’t actually have to act on them.
    and not all crushes merited acting on in a romantic or sexual way.
    so I sometimes (ok, often) benefit from analysing / transforming / sublimating an attraction that up to that point I thought was simply a sexything that needed actioooon. Then realising I could have that person/ energy / circle of peeps in my life simply by befriending them/it, or even [work with me here] working out how to welcome or manifest this more in my own life, instead of thinking I could only get it from another person – potentially to the detriment of a current relationship. Similar to what Prowln is saying I think..? maybe.

    so riding the wave of crush but not needing to take it further.
    knowing and accepting that your partner is only human and loving them anyway. you know, the way we’d like them to love us 😉

    • to clarify. not that I EVER DO act on my crushes because I suffer from crippling shyness about such things.
      but to know that if I approach the connection in a non-romanticised way maybe this makes it easier to handle.

      I have venus aries and pisces sun, so we’re sort of switched around I guess.

    • Venus in Aries, same as you Pi, quite happy to be friends without all the complications

      And after a while you realise that acting out on every new crush reveals…different but same -same.
      Have cheated a couple of times, have been cheated on once or twice but it’s not as good as sticking it out with someone that’s got your back.

      • hmm yes.. i have been on each side of the love triangle in the past, they each come with their own special brand of karma / personal hell I think!

        Virgo BFF will attest to my personal-crisis-inducing crushes. I wish i had been able to act on them more readily and at least discover (as you had) that they were all same same 😉

        where is your moon V? i think my cap moon is great at repressing not expressing feelings.

        • Scorp moon, I can be realllly obsessive, and have done some major LZ stints in my time, but after I while I noticed that the guy might have been different, but the obsession was the same

          • When is Uranus going to hit your Venus btw?

            I notice as Uranus is creeping up conjunct to my merc I am ‘talking’ so much more on internet, with new iPad. New skill, new type of relationships/communication

  6. Neptune in Cap? So you must be young and doing what my dear old dad used to call ‘sowing your wild oats’.
    What have the consequences been to your behaviour so far? You don’t mention any of your former lovers and how they reacted to your cheating. Did they find out? Has your behaviour hurt people? Perhaps it has just been fun for all of you, and everyone’s moved on. Has your reputation been harmed? Or someone else’s? Are you male or female – because this might have a bearing on how you see your own behaviour ie society still has different expectations of men and women.
    I have to say I find it interesting that a question about relationships doesn’t mention another person once. However, I’m all about consequences atm so even though I am a multi-Piscean, perhaps I am reading your letter through Saturn’s beige-tinted glasses.

    • …reading that back of course I have made the white-bread assumption that you are straight man/woman asking this question, and of course you may not be.

  7. I leap into commenting way too quickly sometimes.

    mystic the liz greene link is awesome. thank you.

    ALSO that photo, lol. too close to home 🙂 well, at least my bed isn’t one of those haunted brass things, nor broken..

    • fuqing hell. liz greene. are you out there? thank you…
      this is like a definitive piece in the puzzle that lets me finally see what the picture looks like. Pluto on my IC, and north node in 4th exact opposite my 10th house venus-chiron-SN cluster, which squares my cappy moon. It’s pretty much textbook..

      also today made the distinction in my chart of All of my personal planets in tight aspect to ASC-DSC axis, all of the outer planets in tight aspect to IC-MC axis. Like i have two separate personalities / sets of issues that I need to deal with at various times.

      • the thing is [permit me to continue], pluto on IC is like the unconscious of the unconscious. the pluto guy who authored that book – name escapes me – even talks about outer planets and chart angles representing echoes of a relative from an earlier generation in the family. I mean how do I access any understanding from that, other than my awareness of my parents relationship with their own folks, and so on?
        do I need to go into another relationship to test the waters, see how far I have made it through the murky waters?
        hopefully uranus opposition will illuminate with a series of lightning bolts.

  8. I have a friend who I am trying to support who has been unfaithful to her husband yet again, this time he has decided a divorce is the way forward. I know she loves her husband, and cannot find a way to “explain” her behaviour to hers and everyone else’s satisfaction. I have suggested counselling for her as I really believe it’s deeper than just not having the “strength” to walk away etc. I e-mailed her the Liz Greene article as I feel it is saying what I believe. My venus is in Capricorn so I am unfortunately not the best person to understand but I do understand we all have areas in our lives where we stuff up over and over again. Generally speaking we don’t do it to hurt others but to satisfy some need within ourselves. Good luck Uranian Aries Pragmatist- to me you have started the work that may help you (and your relationship) through this.

    • “we all have areas in our lives where we stuff up over and over again”.

      Uh huh. My life lesson seems to be to accept to orders/direction without question – but I can’t do it. To not question or defy rediculous instruction is not part of my make up and it gets me in to trouble over and over and over.

      They even have name for it now – “oppositional defiant disorder” Lol! It’s a label for the naughty/rebellious classroom student.

      • Asking questions is not a disorder- it’s how we progress as humans. Maybe the lesson is the why and how you question? If you trust and respect someone’s judgement chances are you will do what they ask, and if they feel the same way about you they will be happy to explain their rationale (one of my favourite questioning words btw). I teach and those naughty/ rebellious students are always my favourites- they will be the ones who make you think 😉

      • Something about alignment of goals or intention? Is this a workplace thing or elsewhere? If you genuinely believe a course of action is unhelpful for the goal or task, set aside your irritation and patiently explain to the person. They will either chat about it with you or say just do it anyway. So fuq em. If they’re the boss you do it and let them be proven wrong if it goes badly.
        Not sure where you’re at in life, Maybe you could benefit from developing your own sense of authority(?) in your own game eg sports, leading a team at work or for a volunteer group. Or start your own enterprise!! You can’t argue with your own instructions 😉 It might give you clarity about what it means to be in charge, or your sense of how to do things could really be in a place to shine. I guess the main thing in the meantime is to remain polite and decent while you work with others, even if they’re chumps, losing ones temper isn’t going to change that!
        It’s not about the submit/rebel duality that it might feel like to you. But I understand the sense of what you’re saying. Sometimes it’s also an interesting experiment to simply go along with people to see how they respond. Hmm anyway be cool, xox

        • My response is veering down the passive path, so I want to add never stop asking questions, like aquavirgoes said simply be mindful of how you are voicing them.And yes it’s good to be challenged 😉 you’re not Aquarian are you? Lovely aqua seem to have a hard time with some kinds of authorita

  9. Relationships? What would i know.

    That pix of a decadent and quite debauched mermaid is such a giggle.
    A very merry maid indeed, paying the price of having a very good time!

  10. Been there done that. When kids come it’s all different. Why should they suffer because mum or dad are bored in the bedroom? Every point of the triangle is you. You are the beloved. You are the betrayer. You are the vamp/Lothario.

    We betray ourselves. We redeem ourselves. We forgive ourselves. That’s the Haute Neptune take.

    It’s easier to see post- Chiron return.

    I am awash in Neptune. My greatest irks involve flooding, spills, etc. Containment and boundaries save me.

    Picture yourself looking in the eyes of your beloved child and recounting escapades from now. Especially concerning the other parent. There’s your barometer.

    • Oh god yes that’s what my old lover said to me was the clincher for him. He said ‘How can I look my son in the eye and tell him that I don’t love his mum anymore, that I’ve done this to her’. So it finished. Soulmates, Neptune, blah blah blah…in the end it’s just a choice.

      • same here, Chrysalis. in the end it’s weakness dressed up as nobility. knowing my lover he may well have been your lover as well. 🙂

        • Yes I used to get pissed off with him for being ‘indecisive’. He wasn’t indecisive. He just took his time before not choosing me. Now I’m very glad. Imagine a new relationship being born out of all that wreckage. No thanks. His Twilight-reading wife is welcome to him 🙂

  11. Read that Liz Greene piece before, so good.

    Astrology is at it’s most useful when we can use it to pinpoint repetitive patterns in our behaviour. It’s then up to you to either work really hard at overcoming OR you have to adapt. For example I have a flakey as fuq Mars in Sag that drives me nuts because no matter what I do I can’t be a tenacious, all weather, get up and go, Mars in Cap kind of a girl. I fought against it, berated myself for years, but finally I made peace with it and started to examine how I could harness the good bits and work with the bad.

    Neptune in Cap puts you at before your first Saturn Return. Seems like you need to stop trying to fit yourself into the round hole of monogamy and hurting people in the process. Infidelity hurts. It’s one of the most deeply scaring things a person can do to another. I have a long, long history with Venus in Pisces and I know for a fact that you all loathe to hurt people so keep that as your focus. Might be my black and white Scorpio brain talkin’ but sometimes you have to deprive yourself of things you want until you’re capable of actually having them! Ultimately you are not your astro, it’s an extremely useful tool but it’s never an excuse.

    • ‘Sometimes you have to deprive yourself of things you want until you’re capable of actually having them.’

      So perfectly put Charley, thank you so much. Verbalises something I have been struggling with. ( It does sound rather saturn/Capricorn-y so maybe you have some cap expertise after all?)

  12. That article is pure gold. I skimmed and found this part: “There are also triangles in pursuit of the unobtainable. […] But there is a special ingredient to the pursuit of the unobtainable, and often the deeper motivation is artistic or spiritual. Sometimes, when we seek unobtainable love, it actually has little to do with human beings. But we may translate our creative or mystical longings into the pursuit of those we cannot have. In this way we open up a dimension of the psyche which has more to do with creative fantasy than with relationship. ”

    That perfectly explains MY pattern of relationships, and why I have sworn off crushing, love, relationships of all sorts for the last few years. (That didn’t stop me from falling for a very unattainable friend last year but I digress.) The pattern started when I was at a point in my life when I was atheist so not in the least spiritual, and I didn’t have a creative outlet. I was in love with someone totally unattainable and it was very unhealthy and so not based in reality. Then the pattern repeated. Even when I was IN a relationship, she was unattainable because she was so busy she could never see me, she constantly talked about exes, she even told me she thought she was in love with another friend — this relationship was such a mess.

    Now that I’m getting more spiritual and more creative so far I haven’t fallen back into that pattern. So hopefully I won’t any more.

    I have Neptune in Capricorn too. It seems to be problematic there?? It’s conjunct my moon, and they are trine my venus-conjunct-sun in Virgo. So, my neptune is really strong and I am prone to fantasy.

    • and, sorry I couldn’t offer much advice, as I’ve never been on the cheating side of things and this can get really complicated.

      It’s best to try to analyze the underlying cause…go really deep. Journal it out, go back to where the pattern started. Then at least you can recognize what it’s really about and either stop it from happening or accept that you’re polyamorous if you think that’s it.

      • Yes, that is what I said! Something is hanging on in the psyche from years ago that has to be dug out. Painful stuff … but it will be refreshing.

        I agree with you!

  13. Hmmm, ambi-sexual Neptune problems… maybe be sure to wear rubbers. And don’t fuq with the narc boss.

  14. Well, to the writer, I could not do what you do. I cannot cheat. As much as the relationships is not the best.. I am extremely loyal. I wish I could give you a good, quick answer.. but you have to really look at “why”. What is it that is pushing you to cheat? Something happened when you were younger that was instilled in you that you haven’t released or figured out. It’s time to dig and release. Good Luck.

    For me: Yikes, that photo is me right now. After a night with the Pisces.. I wish it could have been better. Had a wonderful time at dinner, he drove me around showing me where he use to live and took me to a beach for a quick visit. He seemed anxious but I think we were both nervous. Let’s see if I hear from him as he says.

    I just noticed I have Neptune transitioning my 5th house. How perfect is that for timing and recent events.

    But to all.. I do need help with relationships. Counselors, psychiatrists etc will NOT help. Been there SO many times and got nothing.

    • How funny is this. I looked into the Oracle help.. First Question:; can you guess what the answer is… LOL!! A Pisces.. Yikes.

  15. So I echo many of the thoughts already mentioned here i.e. astro isn’t destiny, there is free will, etc.. but would add a few:

    Don’t think you’re a sex addict by any stretch. Sexual addiction seems to hinge on the high of conquest, and the need to experience one’s self as an object of desire through yet another person in much shorter cycles than being able to hold a year and a half of fidelity.

    As for polyamory..maybe something to develop, but I also think most successful polyamorists do even more work with honesty, disclosure and adjustment. I would also say that as with anything, the experience of polyamory has a lot to do with intent and nature. For some people, this is a natural state of being, and the form it takes can vary. While jealousy still occurs, they’re invested in the many and would work through this.

    For others, it’s a solution/structure they pursued as a way to manage relationship and their issues with it, this IMO is no different than undertaking celibacy..meaning, if you’re doing it as a way to avoid hurt, then there’s no difference between diversification and non-participation, if the end goal is the same.

    What I think is safe to say is that no matter how you feel this is a less than palatable aspect of your character, the rewards for digressing must have enough of a pay off for you to continue the cycle. Perhaps we need to look at that.

    Is it possible that with Venus in Pisces you can only hold faith when you’re feeling in a state of transcendence? No relationship is ever safe from the mundane, that’s just life. The 1.5 yr timeline is interesting, and it makes me wonder what is “ripe” for you internally at that point for this to happen.

    Lastly, I will say that separate from your propensity to step out, you do need to find a practical and honest way in which to address this. No one knows how long it may take for you to make sense of this, and clearly, you’re just starting. But what you do know is that you may eventually hurt someone, and you do know your tendencies.perhaps having conversations about that will help you find someone similarly geared?

    We know there’s damage to the people you were unfaithful to, but I’d also say there’s a cost to you as well. The worst thing you can lose in this is your own faith in the universe, if you can’t trust even yourself, you know?

    • This is brilliant advice that you would have had to pay for to hear elsewhere.
      *sigh* Mars in Virgo frustration when people who write in do not respond to the contributors! Neptune seeping out everywhere..
      Awesome FA.

  16. so, many comments fingering Venus in Pisces as an infidelity marker and the married man I had a relationship with – before anyone gets their knickers in knots it was all upfront, his wife knew, they had an arrangement, etc – did indeed have Venus in Pisces. And a few other infidelity marker as well btw.

    My question is what about Venus in Libra? as I’ve read in at least one place some claim that Librans are the real free lovers….(the wife was Libran btw). Does anyone know anything else about this notion? and would this lead Libran Venus to the open end of the spectrum?

    • I’m Venus in Libra and not like that at all, in any way, also have Moon and Mars in Sag which could be a little loosey goosey. Perhaps if I did exactly what I really, really wanted but I don’t.

    • Surely an infidelity marker is the sum of a few aspects. It can’t ALL be down to venus. A lot would also depend on the person’s maturity / evolution etc.

      I’ve never been in relationships long enough to get to the cheating part but I did with one long term relationship. Won’t be doing that again. Lesson learned.

      I remember Mystic posting this quote about Librans a few years ago and I saved it because I think it sums up a part of my Venus nature. Could also be my Saggo moon sextile Venus and moon square Uranus.

      “Remember that Librans do not believe in relationships, as such. They sustain their Qi and general motivation in life via crushes. Actual relationships tend to bore them senseless”

      Does your venus Libra relate to that? Maybe it’s different for you with Toro rising and moon.

      • Hi Scorpbot,

        Yes, of course you’re right it, like most things, is complex and cumulative, was just musing on the comments above and synchronicities.

        Re: me and relationships, you may not be surprised to hear – I’m conflicted! I’ve had the crushes AND the commitment. Neptune in Scorp 7th probably plays a role here. I think if I found something really special – and I mean, like, seriously rare, I would be so into it, it could consume me. But atm most men make me go meh.

        This story is telling re: your question. I don’t know if you recall a few months ago I posted about a guy who I had noticed 18 months ago who piqued my interest – for the sake of this convo we’ll call it a crush. Then a few months ago he came into my sphere and I commented that I would begin to have some regular contact with him so was curious about what would entail. Well, now I can report that he’s a lovely man, but my romantic interest has been curtailed by his obsessive need to eat his lunch in the same underground cafe every day, and having discovered that this sacrifice is made to save $3 on his soup. I can’t tell you in how many ways I can’t go there. Toro can’t cope with stingy, especially on food (He can’t be short on $ btw, he’s v. senior). Something else in me needs fresh air – maybe all the Libra? – and the fixedness to the degree that means he can’t change his habit for one day to join a group of people in the sunshine, that he’ll insist that they should follow him further to sit indoors in an inferior cafe….well. I have a lot of fixed placements but I can compromise.

        So I remain single, lol! how are you?

        • yeah I recall that one. How did I miss this comment? I clicked the “notify me of follow-up” but it didn’t come through. I was going to reply to your other comment below from my phone (busy reading and couldn’t be bothered turning computer on) but I had to after I saw this. LOL.

          OMG. Saving $3 on soup!! I can so relate to your waning romantic interest after that discovery. Don’t even get me started on the Crab /Toro penny pinching quirks. So many and you’d be horrified!!! He once gave me a magazine that looked like it had been left out in the rain on the street. Ewww. You should have seen the look on my face. I had to put my gloves on to remove it from my abode. And the first time he invited me over to dinner at his place it was so cluttered he didn’t even have a coffee table clear for eating on. As he was cooking I looked around and wondered where the fuq we were going to eat. Every surface was covered with STUFF!. Ugh. Put me off my dinner. His excuse was that he had just moved – yeah 6 months ago!! It takes me 2 days max for everything to be sorted. I have Mars in Virgo. He had been to my flat several times before I went to his. You’d think he’d have noticed how tidy I was and made some effort to clean up.

          Anyway, generosity is such a wonderful quality and stinginess is a huge turn off!!!

          I’m conflicted too!! I thought you would be. LOL. It’s really hard to balance the Venus in Libra (appearance, light and air) vs Scorp sun (deep, soul merging yearning)

          I would so love something rare and special but like you everyone (in the last couple of years anyway) has been so MEH. The only guy that blew me away is taken – the artist /barista. I can’t even have a crush on him anymore. We’re friends on Facebook and I saw a comment he made to a friend about how lucky he is to have married his dream girl. That burst the dreamy bubble. Lucky girl!! He’s a Libra, with venus in Scorp. Perfect. 🙁 The only other guy I know who has that combo is a good friend of mine who once said I was his soul mate but unfortunately I’m not physically attracted to him. Shame… on paper we are perfect and we both have Sun in 10th house.

          Better get back to my reading…

          • ah, you made me laugh then 😀

            and it’s good to confer with someone who really gets it….

            night night, enjoy your reading and your drawing!

            • you made me laugh too. With this comment:

              “and the fixedness to the degree that means he can’t change his habit for one day to join a group of people in the sunshine, that he’ll insist that they should follow him further to sit indoors in an inferior cafe….well.


              Good night and sweet dreams.

              • yes, whether it’s an indication of stubborn habitualness or lack of consideration or inability to go with a flow, I’m not hitching my anything to something that stuck!

    • Scorpbot,

      I’m coming back to you after a think with another answer.

      I’ve seen this manifest for Libras in this way – they can have/be in a relationship but it be very superficial. I don’t mean it’s not serious or that they don’t truly believe it is the most important thing in their lives – and I’m sure it is very important to them and their identity is totally wrapped up in it – but that the level of engagement and expectation of the coupling in terms of depth is low. The surfacey things matter – how people perceive them, how happy they look/feel, fidelity, etc. In fact, I can see that I have at times done this – specifically in my marriage. Toro can be at work here, and not necessarily in a good way.

      Then there’s another type of relationship that is incredibly intense, a genuine connection, it has to be real, you know? And other things I find impossible to express, or can;t get into that zone right now. Of course that’s the type the Scorp Sun likes and gets involved in. Funnily enough I think it has higher demands of the relationship although they might not include conventionalities like appearing to be a couple, or even fidelity.

      So, it depends which aspect of me is being activated 🙂

      • the first has the APPEARANCE of being a good relationship (even to the person in it) – Venusian – and in the second your souls might merge – Plutonic.

        Am I being too archetypal?

      • “So, it depends which aspect of me is being activated”

        Know EXACTLY what you mean! 🙂

        The Venus / Pluto dynamic has worked for me only once – truly madly deeply. He was a Virgo, moon in Aqua and rising. I’m grateful for the experience.
        Gee it would be nice if it happened again.

        Venus in Libra is forever hopeful. Cap Asc and the rest of me (my crew of planets) just carrying on and taking care of business. 🙂

        • yes, I am totally with you! I have either Saturn or Pluto all over my everything! I think it’s good…

          Anyhow, yes, I think it worked for me once too and….also Aqua! Toro rising, Leo moon. rare and special right there *sigh*

  17. Pisces Moon (in the 11th house of “friends”)
    Neptune conjunct Jupiter in my 8th house

    Pisces, what have you done to me!?
    Or maybe us Neptunian folks would be happy with like minded Neptunians.
    But as Neptunians, we will always yearn for the unreachable, whatever that means for each of us.

  18. So many brilliant, beautiful, spiritual, compassionate, responsible, knowledgeable, accountable comments from every one really. I hesitate to even add. We, even the young, are old….everything we do is shrouded in layers. In Neptune we may share everything but ironically, not fluids, on earth we need Boundaries. Intense attraction = intense karma, think about the focus of your attractions. Everything is continually trying to rebalance itself. Capricorn anything can sometimes feel pretty intense conditioned guilt. Many lives precede this one. Many, many relationships in every form and cultural norm. What part of the sacred masculine or feminine are you hoping to develop in yourself.