The Real Wolf Of Wall Street Is A Cancerian

Jordan Belfort

     “Scorsese has created a movie for the moment—for the age of utter transparency. The secrets are out of the bag. The time is over when a president could use the White House as his private pleasure dome, and Jay Gatsby’s alias and persona wouldn’t last five minutes in the age of the Internet.”
Richard Brody on “The Wolf of Wall Street” – The New Yorker

So i don’t know if i want to see The Wolf Of Wall Street or not.

Scorsese, Di-Caprio, Pluto In Capricorn style themes, it seems like a no-brainer. But this Open Letter To The Makers Of The Wolf Of Wall Street & To The Wolf Himself, from a victim, is really resonant.  It begins: “I hate to be the bearer of bad news, dear Kings of Hollywood, but you have been conned.”

It is based, of course, on the book written by stockbroker-crim-con-artiste turned motivational speaker Jordan Belfort, pictured above in all his goo-goo Cancerian goo-goo eyed glory. He has Jupiter on his Sun at the moment and yes, the movie IS brilliantly reviving his career (again), thank you very much.

He has Venus on Uranus in Leo – a classic party-animal aspect – and Mars in late Taurus/early Gemini (no time of birth) square Uranus/Pluto which could arguably go a little bit sociopathic trying to sustain funds for those outrageous Venusian-Uranus desires, you understand. See here his Ten Personal Success Tips – no mention of the time served in jail for stock market manipulation, fraud and ripping off poor people with fake investments lol.

So are you guys (a) not seeing it because you’re over the whole corrupt banksters meme or (b) seeing it as this is – like it or not, a vital story of our times?  If you HAVE seen it, does Wolf Of Wall St glorify the dude or not?  I mean, i know Cancerians are savvy with money but this is ridiculous.  Now he’s shopping a reality show – for a guy who is 51 or something, he looks excellent – maybe remorse is bad for skin tone? i’m guessing Pisces Rising. Thoughts?

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132 thoughts on “The Real Wolf Of Wall Street Is A Cancerian

  1. Damn the weather is hot but it’s not a lick on this synchronicity. I looked at this very book today but decided the Angelica Huston memoir was more important.

  2. *Cough* a fellow Cancerian with yes, Venus in Leo, Mercury in Gemini and who happens to live not even three miles away from this guy (Manhattan Beach is home to many, MANY stockbroker types with yoga-teaching, jewelry-designing, real housewives), I will NOT be watching the Wolf of Wall Street.

    One, it just doesn’t appeal. Two, I can’t imagine giving my time or money to a story repeated over and over again, while knowing that in many ways, people are still taken by the charisma of someone who seems to be strung together with pop-psyche stuff. I just read the comments stream on that link, I wish I could say that ra-ra-you can do it whilst doing evil is something on its way out, but judging from those in the neighborhood, I can tell you it isn’t.

    I GET that people deserve a second chance but don’t film makers have other things to talk about? I’ve always felt that the US was a popular country for second chances, make-it-big from nothing stories, for pioneers and individualists. It’s also a culture prone to liking huge extroverts with lots to say, and clearly an inability to really listen. Reference the failures of our foreign policy, esp. during the Bush era.

    Maybe this is bad tasting medicine that serves as a reminder, but the money could be better spent IMO. Besides this whole thing smacks of the same pong that wafted around Imelda Marcos (another Cancer), who after fleeing the country came back and ran for a presidential seat.

    The nerve. In the meantime, I’ll be here, chanting. Dalai Lama – dalai lama – dalai lama…

    • didn’t Nixon leave office with his arms in the air saying “I’ll be back”? it’s hubris….is the USA’s sign Cancer?

      Anyway, as for Scorsese….he’s just made another gangster film, that’s all, it’s his genre. There’s a famous quote that a friend often repeats when we’re talking film & crime – it’s a quote form The Ashphalt Jungle “Crime is only a left-handed form of human endeavour.” i.e. criminals and capitalists are in the same game.

      That said, I won’t see it either – no appeal.

    • Goddess yes, the US is a Cancerian nation i.e. give me your tired, your lonely, etc..

      Speaking of hubris, yes, the Bionic Cancer had that too.. like what the hell crab peeps?? Also agree, same thing as the sinner is cut from the same cloth as the saint yeah?

      • when my friend says it he says: “crime is a left-handed form of capitalism” so it’s a comment on structure and authority and who is endowed with what – who the system validates and who it persecutes although they’re both just exploiting others for their own gain. So it’s pointing out the corruption of both. the saint/sinner thing applies I guess – whether you’re a hero or a villain depends on my position/ideology/what discourse becomes most prominently circulated re: you and the questions MM is asking and the concerns people have about this film positioning the guy as a hero are about that. I think Scorsese will both critique and glamorise the guy as is his wont – and it’s DiCaprio ffs – but whatever he will definitely complexify it and leave people to make their own judgements. He’s pointing out the corruption and the complexity so ultimately I believe people’s responses will reflect their own morals.

        Have I gone off-topic? lol

        the saint/sinner thing defo relates to what Rache was saying below.

        • Not off topic at all. I think they’re sides of the same coin..and speaking of, even that perspective can be used with currency a la physical hard currency and bit coins. Meaning who determines value anyway?

          To which my answer would be, we do.

        • “crime is a left-handed form of capitalism”
          I’d say first, War is the left handed form of capitalism. The worst crimes are committed in war. Most other crimes are the spawn of war.
          Without war the US style of capitalism just falls over. This is Obama’s biggest problem.
          80 years of building the industrial military complex can’t be changed so quickly.
          When a nation depends on violent death for its economic security it creates a mighty tough paradox.
          Let alone the karma involved in attempting world financial domination.

    • Agree. He looks creepy and I think Wall Street BS is so over. It was over in the 1990s.

      And that annoying wide eyed look ‘who, me? rip people off??’ Tired of these con merchants.

      • yeah, like what’s with the prayer hands? this is the kind of pose that says, I’m listening intently to what you’re saying so tell me, I want to know except I really don’t, I just want you to do whatever the hell it is I want you to do.

  3. My Uranian Pisces commodities broker ex identifies with being esoteric and some kind of minimalist mathematician or whatever but also so badly wants to crush in business and loves the original Wall Street movie with Michael Douglas. Admitted he was stoked to see this. I’m just meh about it all because I partied with the first generation of the tech bubble here in SF when I was younger. Bomb-proof. Bored.

    So Venus-Uranus a la Liz Taylor is a party animal aspect, eh? I have Venus-Uranus (+ more; all in 8th house) in Sagg. 0__0 Plus I am Aqua and ruled by Venus. I’ve always found it weird how I am both a hardcore nerd and an introvert but also have a Lohan side that comes out from time to time. I’d rather spend the money and scheme about how to pay it then have a budget or a job that lasts more than 3 months. I know, I know…

    Do the Venus-Uranus women post! We’ve covered Mars-Neptune dudes in depth…

  4. Hah.. Cant help but feel a bit of schedenfreude whenever i read some negative press about this movie. See, i went to school with a guy who was part of the crew, and hes a total slimeball.
    My boyfriend was in the hospital a while back (all ok now) and this guy was trying to joke around, “hey if you die, can i have your girlfriend?” Disgusting. So ive been sort of dreading the release and success of this movie, just because of him. Im very happy that american hustle has eclipsed it in hype.

    • I think people are over it. Like it may pull sales numbers because of the cast and publicity and whatnot but people aren’t enamored by this lifestyle like they were before…it’s not aspirational anymore. Virtually everyone is feeling the effect of these douchebags and this way of thinking.

      This story is old. Techies are the new yuppies who are just as bad but have a lame exclusive vision of utopia and so they feel righteous.

      I do like the title “The Wolf of Wall Street” because it’s so intentionally dichotomous and open to interpretation. Opposites are usually more alike than not…is he villain or hero?

      Maybe films like this collectively help us make up our mind.

      • Hmm, speaking of techies, more growing discussions of sexual harassment and discrimination against women in that world.

        Oh Zap Zone, you just won’t stop zapping will you?

      • you’re so right Raché! I hadn’t thought of it like that….it just reads like a condemnation to me, but all the best hero/villain relationships in film have basically been mirrors.

    • Agrrrrrrr-eed. American Hustle is fantastic and i finally appreciate Christian Bale’s acting. Not a hairline crack in character, played beyond the image gimmick.

      • Christian Bale. *sigh* 😀 He’s incredible. Love him!! Check him out in ‘The Machinist’ !! Incredible.

  5. I’m gonna go see it when it opens in Australia. I’m curious. It’s three hours long! I’ve read some pretty bad reviews – want to go and see what I think of it. I like Jonah Hill too and want to see him in this role.

  6. He looks so crabby with those eyes and his claws demurely folded to hold back his grabby nature. I have a friend who is careful to point out that criminals are at least working at something…. rather than collecting a government check, having hoards of kids and expecting someone else to support them. But as far as crime goes, this is the bottom feeding variety that needs a big bottom on which to feed. Using power to exploit the less powerfulful is losing its glamour.

  7. fuq-ola those EYES i recognise them! Look like the eyes of the Cancer Man that ate my money and took my home. No kidding. I scrolled down the screen and just the eyes came above the taskbar, and i JUMPED. Seriously, Mystiquettes, if you ever see eyes like this, shoot them or turn around and don’t look back.

    • Bahaha! I was thinking when I saw this post: UGH what is up with those eyes *shudders*

  8. hmmm, well, actually I want to see it real bad. I think everyone who cheers it on is obviously terrible but watching it wrong, tons of people saw breaking bad and didn’t see it as a tragedy and the fall of a man, but actively cheered on the terrible stuff he did and thought it was nothing but cool, and irrationally hated skylar, but its still such a great show. An argument can be made for weather it is overall a bad influence, but the movie has already been made and the damage if any is already done, I think its worth seeing. It seams more like your supposed to watch it and be in awe of how terrible they are, see audience, this is what you love?

    I think it captures and blatantly shoves in your face what is essentially wrong with everything, and outs the terrible people who would watch this and obliviously think it is worth emulating. It is not a redemption story at all. Its like a really conceptually depressing comedy.

    Here is the review from a really good movie site, I think its worth watching, but I don’t mean that to argue or anything with those who don’t agree.

    • Did you like breaking bad? I was so disappointed. The characters were all unlikeable and/or stupid. I think a 13 year old could run a drug operation better than that lot!
      Weather is controlled by Wall St according to some!

      • hehe. it could be the Capricorn moon in me or a-hole pisces in general but I much preferred Gustavo Fring in the picture (btw is that an anagram for something? I could never work out why the writers chose that name). He was the only one who was not a basket case… I always surmised part of his unspoken back-story was that he ran a death-squad in Chile or something (yes am aware of the real-life trauma and devastation in that time). nevertheless in the context of the show, the devastating efficency, such a relief next to the clusterf*q of Walter White. but then again the nerd in me likes White’s ingenious chemistry

        • ya I thought gustavo would be better for everyone too, and if walter just calmed the fuck down he could have had a good reliable thing going there. I think the appeal of walter white wasn’t that he was smarter per se due to all the stupid shit he did, just more that he had his moments. Also he was pretty piscean so that was neat to, had had his ups and downs but when he was backed in to a corner somehow he would get out of it. I could see how some people might not like the show, I saw it from the beginning and didn’t think it would catch on like it did.

          • exactly! sometimes I felt that the plot devices used to progress the story did stretch the characters a little, e.g. i know White was desperate etc and this sudden taste of richesse and knowing he could have a chance to grab the brass ring etc would have made him take some crazy leaps, but from time to time his argument of ‘doing this for the family’ seemed a tad flimsy given the particular risk he was taking. i could go on (as always)… I secretly love the idea that if skyler were just a little bit less straight (notwithstanding her perfectly reasonable fears for her children’s safety, prison sentences etc etc), like you say they could have had a nice racket going. Then again WW probably correctly assessed that at some stage Fring might toss him on the scrapheap too and took preemptive action…ahh yes.

            here’s the takeaway kids – study chemistry! it’s great. even if you don’t want to become a drug baron. at the very least you’ll understand the ingredients list on your cosmetics.

            • I actually think how deluded he got was pretty realistic and admitted as much at the end at least as far as doing it for the family goes. And ya I think technically he might be replaced at some point and he probably wasn’t admitting that to himself so he went fucking nuts, that s4 finale was the best thing ever though dang

      • re weather and wall street – i have a theory on this – “A private equity firm invests in coal and suddenly global heat maximum increases by 0.3 degrees C ” so yes it’s not implausible.

      • I loved breaking bad, loved it. I thought it was just a classical tragedy played straight, just good tv. But I could see what your saying, it wasn’t entirely realistic, but I think it was the most morally realistic show if that makes sense, that’s why I liked it. Also walter is kind of like my dad a bit, so there is that, kind of weird, the kind of person he is and the way he is messed up, so it was interesting to see that type play out in a dynamic external story quickly rather then in real life where those types just slowly deteriorate.

        • I guess I didn’t find it morally realistic which is why I couldn’t enjoy it. There were very few actual grey areas covered in my mind.
          Maybe the concept was good for a five minutes, but then, it’s like,
          “So, if you lie and steal you debase yourself and your relationships? Really?”
          Er, yes. Not difficult.

          But then I am super fixed in terms of my astro! So.. (Leo Sun in 2nd House, Moon in Scorp).

          • maybe it was obvious, I could see that, I actually liked how it stuck to its premise and played it straight never pretending to be more then it was

    • I was pretty rational in my hatred for Skylar David – her character was occasionally more evil than his. I was reading it as a tragedy / cautionary tale about greed and the tension between rational / intellectual and emotional as a dying man with a young family struggled with the myriad manifestations of a patriarchal archetype and his cultural programming/background.

      I’ve heard average middle class folk in a place I worked talk about how Breaking Bad is fine because he’s sick and doing it for a reason and Weeds is bad because she could just go out and get a job even if it was just at a supermarket. Yet he was highly trained and educated and a member of a couple and she was not well educated and the single mother of three children and therefore far less likely to be able to provide for her family than he was. He was dealing in something far more insidious and destructive at a physical and societal level. It was an insightful eavesdrop that one.

      As far as Breaking Bad is concerned I found Jesse and the lawyer the most entertaining and well rounded characters. And Mike – he and walter were similar, trying to look after their loved ones. In a really horribly fuqed up way.

      • Have to say I totally disagree with you on the skylar (skyler?) white hate thing. I could put myself in her shoes and understand her situation, frustration and motivations quite easily. I considered her actions to be at least as if not more rational – if you want to use the word – than her husband’s at times. Mind you I have not watched the very last few episodes so no spoilers if poss 😉

        • I found her moral high ground while being complicit repellent. It was her idea to be part of it all – she volunteered and she was cheating on him and funneling the money into her lover’s bank account to manage his tax evasion issues at the same time. As a character she made bad choices mostly to do with the men she was involved with and immersed herself in a world full of people she then went on to judge as if she were not involved. Many of Walt’s choices were her ideas. I didn’t like her character and found her duplicitous nature irritating. In the context of the story (as opposed to real life :grin:) at least the other characters made their choices and committed to the paths they took. She wanted it all ways.

          • interesting. That’s not how I saw it – at all. I read it as, her feeling utterly hamstrung by her husband’s unstoppable determination to produce illicit drugs – which in her world, up to that point, was the stuff of TV news, prisons, junkies and shootouts in dodgy corners of cities. And here he was a part of that. Suddenly he is throwing mountains of money at her and about to make financial choices that would look interesting to the tax department. Her training as an accountant (I assumed) kicks in and she acts, in my opinion, in the family’s interest – to make them look as unobtrusive as possible in the public realm while she deals at home with an out of control husband whose actions become increasingly out of touch with the state of their relationship.

            I think she acts to try to solve problems for these two men in her life who refuse to manage their own shit with an eye on the potentially serious impacts on others and themselves.

            As the accountant, thus seeing the breadth of problems her embezzling (but hmm let us see, more attractive, attentive and softer than her currently erratically behaving husband) boss had created for himself, giving money to him was a (yes, desperate) solution to his no doubt imminent indictment for fraud. And also her as the bookkeeper – I thought her bimbo tactic with the auditors was pure genius. It would also have helped the Whites dispose of a few hundred K which to her training must have been a gigantic liability.

            Remembering all this time she has a tiny baby and I assume is quite keen for peace and stability, not being uncomfortably close to tax or drug raids thanks to these men.

            anyway so i suppose my perspective is that she is trapped by the decisions of the men she is associated with and out of a sense of loyalty, does not act only in her interest but to protect her family’s safety and unity or her boss’s business (and her own professional reputation), while aggrieved in feeling that she has no choice but having to do the things she does.

            • also in this context i see the affair she has with the boss as within the realm of what someone would do who felt like they were losing their mind at home. If it were a man having an affair with his yummy secretary because his wife was behaving like a lunatic and he could see no safe way out of the situation, would he have received less condemnation?

              • No! there would’ve been no difference. It’s not a man/woman thing, it’s the voluntary involvement in something that endangers not only your family on an ongoing basis but also the livelihood and safety of your sibling’s family (did she not think about the DEA agent brother in law) and the moral high ground which sat in stark contrast to the role she voluntarily chose to take that I found repellent – the theft of Walt’s ill gotten gains for her lover was just a random aspect I chose to illustrate my point that she was not an innocent and made irrational and ill advised choices to do with men. I agree the bimbonic tax department thing was genius which is exactly my point. Her character was not stupid. I may be hazy on the timing of things but I’m pretty sure there was no money thrown around until Walt left her and bought his own place. She had it made at that point. Could’ve kept the marital home, he was paying for the kids schooling etc. and she could’ve got on with her life. Instead she reunited with a man she despised and proceeded to construct the gambling lie around the sudden emergence of all the cash. That’s when she chose to embark on money laundering as a career. There were quite a few opportunities for her to walk away and each time she chose not to and immersed herself even deeper. Couldn’t abide her character.

                • Just realised my opinion of her is coloured by her emasculating behaviour towards Walt at the beginning. Before any of the emotive aspects of her character formed. She was just another one of his bullies.

                  • I haven’t seen later episodes but agree with you AF about Skylar in the beginning. Found her a very difficult character to watch.

                    • LOL Thanks! I was starting to question my stance until I realised that’s when the initial dislike of her formed – before she was pregnant.

                    • Pious vanilla and felt their relationship was formed on obligation than a foundation of love. A great show.

                    • wow, this is fastinating. not being snarky- i’m just really surprised at the huge difference in perceptions of SW. I suspect we wouldn’t find any common ground, but I wuld like to try – it’s need a re-watch and lengthy debate over coffee. Even if the conclusion is “agree to disagree” 😉

                • But AF, what else could have happened? With the gambling thing. that wasn’t her being a self-serving cow imo. That was her saving WW’s ass. Him going MIA and coming back with a suitcase full of cash, unexplained ability to pay for medical treatment, a gigantic busybody sister in law, social expectations that the family stick together in challenging times, WW still in treatment for a brain tumour, DEA Bro in law, new baby, I mean … what were her options there. I think she did a shit hot job under the circumstances.

                  Also, she didn’t want him to come back, from memory. He just decided to impose himself back into her life. Thinking about it now,
                  I probably did think she was bossy at first. But to me that didn’t change the fact that her subsequent situation was hard to handle, whoever she was.
                  ok so this is FUN. !

                  • i like the angle though that “ww finds his power and sense of self through becoming a drug kingpin etc. lotsa angles…

                    • YES! this is fun – and you thought librans would never go out of their way to disagree! 😉 I saw WW’s character evolution as a response to every single emasculating prod from his wife and the bullying treatment from his boss, his students, the theft of his idea by his ex-girlfriend and business partner etc. as the events that led to him turning the way he did. He was absolutely seeking his mojo and he sure as hell found it!!! That was my reading of it anyway. His character was that of the underdog at the beginning. Skylar was the bully at home. Obviously none of it warranted the extremes he went to in response but if he hadn’t we wouldn’t be talking about it. Even his brother in law was ultimately out for himself. God it WAS AWESOME!!!!!!

                    • 😉 Maybe that’s pluto … oce the change/breakout starts, you can’t stop it, intoxicating sense of one’s own (new) power. Mystic PLEASE can we do an astro analysis of this show? the main bits anyway :)

                    • oh and that line of his, early on: “My eyes are OPEN.” that’s some transit going exact right there.

                    • YES! I loved the way he said some of that shit like a toal demon. David has mentioned a few times how there’s a definite piscean edge to the show. Apart from the obvious neptune connections. Would LOVE to know what their astro was. There were def transits in there. I think the producer of Xfiles Produced it – the framing of shots was totally X-files. I plan to go full immersion and watch it again back to back, so will see how I feel about SW 2nd time round. 😀

                    • I read a blog about WWs astro….can;t remember where it was but was interesting. peeps are all over this as you could imagine!

                    • some appeal of WW was his character was all about awakening energies, whatever dark corner they might have led him into, whereas SW didn;t have that vibe at all. I worry a little bit about woman-hating – the stereotype of the bossy wife

                    • totally open to further discussion – hadn’t read WW’s char development like you had so interesting to re-watch with that in mind. total immersion was the only way i could watch it – 4-5 episodes at a time so I’d get through a whole series in 2 nights (and that was holding back)..

                    • I had no idea not liking her character was a thing! I just didn’t like her. I’ve read a bit about her in the last hour or so and think it’s interesting that people read here as hapless victim. I read her as integral to the plot in the later episodes and if they create a character who emasculates their husband as part of an overriding theme of him being the victim what do they expect? Of course people will dislike her.

                    • AF u still there? acupuncture contact – i can’t find orig post – see my new comment somewhere below for anemail contact, if that’s still cooldfor you. xx

        • totally! he is supposedly having his own show in the future. He was the ultimate comedic foil to the crazy dark swamp that the rest of the show was trawling.

          • i heard him interviewed on NPR with his comedy partner and they were talking about their old show Mr. Show with Bob and David which I really want to see now.

            • I didn’t realise he actually IS a comedian – will be on the prowl for that. My random snippet of trivia is that he’s the brother of one of the simpsons and futurama writers.

            • theres tons of clips on youtube, he is actually really really comdecally respected

      • first of all walter white is a few paradigms more terrible then skylar. I almost want to laugh, sometimes she was more evil then him? what? I could see how she was a bit annoying at the beginning, but how can you give some sort of cultural archetype sympathy to walter then turn around and just judge skylar so harshly too.
        Honestly, as a man, I have no sympathy for that type of emasculation he experiences at the beginning, people act like its the biggest deal, a nagging wife, boo fucking hoo. He did this to himself, he didn’t have to marry her and he doesn’t have to act the way he does, he certainly didn’t have to resort to drugs AT ALL, remember, his rich friends offering to pay for his stuff? Oh but poor emasculated walter, he couldnt help but try to be a tough guy, phh. If he was decent, and had an ounce of humility instead of a dark hole of neutered hubris, he wouldn’t have even had to sell drugs and all that in the first place.

        • basically, walter whit gets a free pass from you because boo hoo society is rough, but skylar somehow doesn’t?
          Also is this weirdly along gender lines, weeds looks like a fucking stupid show, but who cares if she is doing it, its pot, who gives a shit, but walt is a man deluding himself into thinking he is providing for his family so its okay when he does it with meth? That is such a bullshit opinion that some people have, because he is sick and has a reason its okay? Really? What about the fact his reason is still bullshit and he could have accepted his former friends who are super rich’s help?
          Walter poisoned a kid, let a druggie drown in her puke, killed people, emotionally manipulated and abused people, but he is doing it for a reason so its okay right? Skylar is hazily complicant without knowing everything he has done and somehow she is just as bad as him just because. Sure, she isn’t ya know, a good guy in all this, but she isn’t anywhere near comparable to walter white, and I really REALLY don’t get the hate she has gotten on the internet.

          • yeah i thought the people who believed WW was ok but Nancy Bottwin wasn’t were fuqing crazy. It’s a funny show BTW.

            • I heard the first 2 seasons were good and then it got terrible, I watch too much tv as it is, I still have too much more to watch, also I recommend enlightened, just so you guys know, and that is a real bad ass top notch recommendation even if you don’t end up watching it

              • later on it expanded and more character growth so it may have lost some of its initial comic allure. Is starting to become more complex again. I love doug. The guy who shits on his own doorstep.

                • stories becoming more involved again but characters are bedded in now i meant. It has its foundation in place and has left suburbia. Jenji Kohan is a clever woman.

              • Oh thanks you david, just realised I’m familiar with the show you’re talking about. I’ve been picking up enlightened and putting it back on the shelf at the DVD store for months. On your reco will buy it. Laura Dern I like.

          • d5379 you are a LEGEND and thank you. I think a lot of the skylar hate was gender specific . how dare a woman try to tell someone – her husband!! head of the family!! what to do. lol. i thought you were cool before but now i think you are brilliant. xlnt. thank you.

            • wow I am amazed that it’s being framed in that way – I saw her as a bully not as a wife who nagged. Her ‘role’ as a stereotypical nagging wife never even entered my head. Although as a mother she did emasculate the father of her child in front of that child and onlookers and defer to the more macho, virile archetype that was Hank.

        • also I am just kind of blindly ranting, its not really directed at you anon flux I am sorry, its one of those things that riles me up. I just get really upset and have met some people who just don’t get breaking bad and think of skylar like she was the worst one on the show, really sorry. Not saying you think those things I am arguing with.

          • ya I kind of feel bad now, I kind of jumped the gun there, I am sorry I disagreed so vehemently out of left field here, its one of those things that upsets me, I have met guys who I have argued with about this. It feels like arguing against sexism or racism or something, you didn’t deserve the tone I ended up using.

            • 😀 I’m the very first person who spoke to you here after you arrived suddenly and ranted at someone David. I welcomed it then and nothing has changed. I know your sudden ambush oratory style pretty well having observed it for a while now. I vaguely remember we have some mercurial synastry that is harmonious. Know that it’s how it works with you and there’s no feeling that I’ve been personally slighted so relax love. It’s no big deal. It’s not even a thing – although I did have a chuckle at the gradual trickle of remorse – thanks! Unnecessary but duly noted.

              My comments aren’t gender based – I saw her as a bully at the beginning, she got kind of lost as a character after that and then suddenly she was back with a vengeance and orchestrating some shit of her own accord. I found her moral high ground even though she was voluntarily deeply involved hypocritical. She really irritated me. If she’d been a man it would’ve been the same. If anything, if you want to break it down that way, for me it was probably a white collar vs blue collar thing. She was an integral part of the operation at a management level and was pretty strategic. Which, I’ve just realised takes us back to the actual reason for this post! It has not been officially highjacked, it’s back on track!!!! Wacky to look at it in that way. I suspect she was a water sign by the way.

              • WW is a Pisces, Jesse a Virgo (perfection, no!), Skylar a Leo. Well at least the actors are those..

                • and jesse and walter have opposite mars, jesse has mars in cancer, and walter mars in capricorn, I think their weird opposites dynamic is interesting.
                  I think its okay to use the actors astro, it wasn’t supposed to be longer then a season originally, so anything more was written with the actors in mind technically

              • Okay I totally get what your saying now, I think I am so used to arguing from this end I kind of forget the legitimate critiques of skylar, and there totally are some. And I can’t even remember when that first time I commented here ha, that was so long ago to me

                • You were like a knight in the tarot – sudden gallop into the fray. LOVED IT. It brought a a new kind of energy and vigor to the rhetoric.

            • Is it possible on top of the fact that there has clearly been some kind of sexist backlash re this character go down (I had no idea until yesterday she was so broadly disliked. Death threats is a bit mental – it’s a tv show people, dial it back!!!) that because you identified with the WW character as being similar to your father that your reading of the characters may be a bit subjective or skewed slightly? Whereas I have another thing going on – an immersion impairment. When I watch TV etc. I am seldom viewing it without analysing characters, costumes,lighting, mise en scene etc. because that’s my training. I totally see how there is sexism associated with criticism of her character but my stance is not about her as a woman. I think I’m having a class moment 😀

              • ya, that’s definitely part of it, I am analyzing things objectively as I watch tv as well, but in this case after a certain point I would just see other peoples arguments in my mind and already be arguing with hypothetical reactions to whats going on in my head. Like, aggh, I bet people are totally going to think THIS when actually thats not what happened at all!

              • Also the show was going on through my parents divorce. So the way people were getting were how some people were being with my mom who is a god dam saint(not comparable to skylar at all). There was that point around season 5 where he starts getting really fucked up with her in subtle ways, and honestly that stuff wasn’t as bad as my dad actually was with my mom. And then the whole way he just weaseled his way back in to the house and I dunno lots of stuff was eerily vibing as the same sort of conflict so if all definitely hits close to home

                • also his mental hubris, and the way he just turns terrible and talks down to people when teaching things to jesse

                  • I found that gripping but deeply uncomfortable – there was a real tension with that trait for me. Like I had to watch but felt repelled by it at the same time. Vile.

  9. Count me conflicted! I think Scorsese is a genius and apparently the fuqed up on drugs scene with Leonardo and Jonah is worth the price of admission, they keep taking qualuudes or something because they think they are not working and then blam.

    but have known degenerate scumbag money men (in my case all guys) with the most outrageous rip-off-the-proles business schemes, heaps of people went bankrupt but said scumbags are still out there on massive bonuses having been bailed out by OUR TAXES.

    i was at a lunch the other day with an extremely successful couple – they were talking about all the money – our money – that has been poured into the finance industry at the expense of education and science to prop up banks, share prices and house prices.

    Wall St, finance and real estate are doing gangbusters while main street go broke and the older generation has sold out the yournger. These gentlemen are not left wing – but they think what is going on now in australia, uk and usa is outrageous and cannot be sustained. WAS SOBERING!

    • The definition of neurosis is people repeating the same activity expecting different results. Or is that stupidity? I forget, the point is, they won’t stop, when things go bad they start taking your super annuation then finally yr gold (as was done in the 20’s). The system ain’t broke, it never worked. Though it feels like corruption is the norm now more than ever I wonder if is just the fact information is more accessible due to the interwebz..
      Property market is a Ponzi scheme, the share market is partly (at least) rigged.
      Isn’t there a few trillion missing from the US economy? I do wonder where it went! I don’t know about sobering, I feel like the population of a psychiatric prison run our planet.
      Sorry, that turned into a rant… Carry on TLS! Want to see the movie for that scene you mention now, 😉 .

      • I thought neurosis was just kind of overly worried or anxiety, like larry david is neurotic, george costanza is neurotic, anyone who is kind of overly in to therapy even though its a good thing is neurotic

      • Soz, found it: “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”, Einstein.

        We are insane if we expect things to improve is my point! It has to devolve, it’s only logical.

    • The Aus treasurer gave the Reserve Bank $8.8 billion.
      Without explanation.
      Our economy is supposedly in good shape and unemployment, interest rates and inflation are fairly low.
      Very very frightening.

  10. And also this guy looks like a pervert. I think if he walked into a brothel with those eyes the girls would be drawing straws to NOT HAVE TO DO HIM. Because he would bring something very strange and unpleasant to the equation.

    • that glassy-eyed stare. perfected by those acting up who don’t give a fuq about their impact on others?

  11. Saw the movie and really enjoyed it. What can I say but that my shadow won out. Very compelling stuff. Massive sex, drugs and greed. Excellent acting and funny as hell. I do hope that he ends up paying some sort of restitution from the profits of this work.

    • Ya I was gonna say that too, don’t let that girl be the reason to not see it, she probably just wants a book deal and I don’t think she gets the movie either.

        • I haven’t read his letter but I kind of don’t entirely trust that girl, it sucks what happened to her but I don’t think she gets the movie and I dunno, something else too I can’t quite explain

          • Frowning upon internet disclosure, discourse – while proceeding to fillet her via same. v Mars in Libra

            • the fact I have an opinion doesn’t mean I don’t think other people should have their own. Discourse is fine.
              I think the letter is weird because she doesn’t seam to get the movie and I don’t think you can espouse that a movie, a satire mind you, shouldn’t exist especially if you haven’t seen it. I read about the letter and skimmed it, it sucks what happened to her, I could see why she wouldn’t want to see the movie, but to go so far as to say it shouldn’t exist and people should watch some other movie instead, of an entirely different type and genre, because that is about a “real” family as opposed to the experience of her fake one, I think its safe to say she doesn’t get what the movie is about. Again that’s fine and all, but her extreme personal experience doesn’t mean an entire martin scorsese movie that is really good should not exist. Debating weather the movie is for you or not is an entirely different conversation then what the use of satire is and weather its worth having or not.

              • Of course you should have your own unique and lovely opinion, wouldn’t have it any other way d! I didn’t think much of her letter, but her father’s is a study of the nature of slime/mars in libra.

                • doh! I’m an idiot, but yah I am sure that guy is just terrible terrible terrible, my dad is a cancer with mars in libra, I can only imagine how this guy is

  12. I’ve not seen it…is it even showing in Aus yet?

    It could make him look like the scumbag he is….

    But yeah, I mean if he profits from the movie…how is that a good thing? Reminds me of that whole “Bling Ring” thang–ya know? They wanted notoriety for all the wrong reasons and then the movie gave it to them.

  13. Sign of the times. Glorify and give to the downtrodden (not give them a rod to fish with, keep them powerless), glorify and forgive the criminals (because they justify corruption at the very top, birds of a feather….), glorify and give to anyone that will do anything for an overnight success. I live close to Manhattan Beach, Hollywood is about people who will sell their soul (or take their clothes off) for success overnight. As far as this guy’s rising sign — I see no self-reflection or remorse in his greed, just from first impression. And those big blue buggy eyes, does he have goiter? I would guess that he’s a libra rising.

  14. I would watch it!

    When I watch movies now I like viewing them from the point of view of if they are ‘entrainment’ movies and to what extent.
    Catherine Austin Fitts (a US commissioner and wall street investment banker) talks about entrainment and subliminal programming, how it works and how it is used for power and profits in the market place.
    A move like this rates attention I think.

    Recently I saw (it was bad week) Rachael McAdams & Channing Tatum in “The Vow”. It was a remarkable piece of entrainment. So badly done it was a pleasure to watch.

    Gotta say Di Caprio is getting pretty one note these days.

    • Just to note, I don’t suggest that Scorcese is some kind of illuminati high priest of mass entrainment through the synchronisation of the psycho-physical through film & sound. Not at all! Just interested in what isn’t said in the movie as much as what is..

  15. Given this is my first appearance in the comments all year, hello everyone and happy new year! Wishing everyone the absolute best for 2014, however that may emanate!

    I have been looking forward to Wolf of Wall Street since I saw the first trailer that was accompanied by Kanye’s ‘Black Skinhead’. I am a bit of a Scorcese fan, and I really appreciate the era of film making/directing that he comes from. Can’t beat New Hollywood era for good character-based stories. I also really do like Leo – he really is a great actor and so well matched with Scorcese.

    I’d never thought of it from your perspective though, Mystic… and the reasons for your avoidance do make sense, especially in terms of the lessons coming forward with the Zap Zone.

  16. I always do the “cover one of his eyes, assess the face, then cover his other eye, re-assess face” test to form opinions of people I don’t know. This dude is deranged. He would literally say any lie to anyone if he could profit from it somehow. He could lie on a lie detector test and pass.

    • that’s a great tip but wow…he looks sort of normal on the left side but the right side is like My Hyde!

  17. A directorial genius. Make me another The Departed Marty. Due to be released here around Australia Day. 3 hours of AC on a hot summer’s day….sold.
    This guy does look like a crab, the wide face and huge eyes. This wanker is shopping a reality show, that would be something conman Peter Foster would do.

  18. Cancer rising boyfriend gives me that SAME ‘precious moments’ look. hahaha

  19. As I count on maybe two fingers the times I actually smacked my girls, instead I would have them sit down and fold their hands when they were naughty.

    My days as a nun? :)

    It even worked on Libran/Toro Moon/Gem rising Grandaughter when she was about two years old. We were in a cafe in Paris and she was all over the place, hungry, tired, angry.

    Worked like a charm. Think it has a calming effect really and holds one back when over expressing themselves could be a problem.

    The other day I never made it to the movies but this looks like it might be good.

    ~goo-goo eyes~ lol

    • Gosh, this reminds me of when I was in primary school, and when the class was naughty, we had to sit on our hands… I went to a Catholic school as well.