When Pluto In Capricorn Is Your Financial Planner

Filed in Horoscopes

Avoid Retirement Stay AliveYou don’t need particularly strong psychic or astrological skills to get that the Pluto in Capricorn process that began in 2008 is only just really getting going. Pluto in Capricorn is pricking the Neptune in Capricorn (80s/90s) debt bubble big time and the tension between the Pluto in Leo generation (baby boomers) and those after (but especially the Pluto in Scorpio peeps) is about to intensify.

There is a strong argument that the increase in easy access to debt has masked degeneration in real-life wages & government services. The degree of dissatisfaction with our leadership/economic management has never seemed higher.  Pluto is in Capricorn until 2024 – I know, right? It’s a long haul flight, get comfie. The Uranus in Aries phase is like the demolition phase and then Uranus in Taurus from 2018 is the rebuild. We are about to live through interesting times.

Now this is really cool – i saw recently and instantly grabbed it. Not because i am anywhere near close to retiring lol but because i have never considered it for a second – the very first time i heard of the concept, i immediately dismissed it as ludicrous and totally not for me. I thought it was a Mars in Virgo thing and that it made me an out-lier or something.

But NO. Retirement is basically the Devil and the idea of investing heavily in your Awesome (mental and physical) instead of saving for some long, long siesta – golf – cruise shit is in fact apparently cool. I was SO happy to find a kindred soul that i emailed the author David Bogan and asked him some questions. The book is really rad btw, it’s totally written for a Pluto in Leo audience – i get that – and it could be be juiced up with some more socio-cultural crap but the attitude in there is pure raw Awesome.

Mystic:  Fab book, what is your Sun Sign? 

David Bogan: Definitely Scorpio, and in a previous life, as a manager for a very large department in an international bank, I employed
all of my staff according to their birth signs – and when I got too busy to screen new employees, I found that the people assigned to do it, employed only star signs compatible to themselves, regardless of their qualifications.


Mystic: I love that. This is also a very functional NOW time for Scorpions. No schizz structural transformation. This book would seem to be with that vibe. You’re saying that our governments can no longer afford to fund anyone’s retirement but that anyway the concept is basically bullshit, a living death…is that right?

David Bogan: Absolutely, and the money is the least of the issues. We’re born and genetically programmed to ‘survive’ and do not have
a ‘use by date’ stamped on our foreheads. The concept of ‘retirement’ used to be a useful tool to keep people doing mind-bendingly boring jobs by thinking that there was a golden light at the end of the tunnel. I went into a big city book shop recently to enquire if they had the book and the young lady by the computer asked me what the title was and when I told her said, “Yuk, nobody would ever buy that!”
I agreed with her and asked her,”why” and she said, “The only reason I come to work is so I can retire” and she has another 40 plus years of working left! How sad is that? To sacrifice your life for a ‘dream’ that bears no resemblance to reality.


Mystic: So rather than freaking out about being unable to afford a retirement and/or the possibility of bankrupt governments, we redesign our lives to be permanently working & useful, investing in our health and general Awesome, rather than saving to be unemployed for a long phase of time – yes? I personally get this but i love what I do – what of people who hate their work and cannot wait to be retired?

David Bogan: Yes to all of the above – and to people who hate their work, get out! Nothing is worth spending your life doing something you hate, and they won’t have to worry about retiring, their health will pack up well before that.


Mystic: On this site we talk a lot about what I call the Zap Zone – the rare square between iconoclastic Uranus and Pluto in Capricorn – the net result is a radical morph of our society, culture and most of all economy. Unsustainable paradigms and insane debt bubbles are bursting – we are about to see more change in the next five years than we have had in the last 50. Would you agree with this from your perspective? And that your book is in part an attempt to prep people who may be a bit unaware for what’s to come?

David Bogan:  Yes, and it will be scary for us all – we will not even know when we go into hospital, if we can get in, that they will be able to afford to treat us properly and not just trying to get us out again as quickly and cheaply as possible.

Mystic: So my strategy of doing a LOT of preventative stuff is not so flaky after all. Your book has a lot of genius advice for the Pluto in Leo
(baby boomer) generation – what would your advice be for the Gen X (Pluto in Virgo and Libra) and Gen Y (late Pluto in Libra/Pluto in Scorpio)??

David Bogan: Gen X and Y are on the same journey, just a bit further back. I recently saw the attempt by one of these to manage their retirement, they had their parents and grand parents removed from their family crypt into the council one, chiselled the family name off the crypt, and listed it for sale. I have a photograph of it with the land agents ‘For Sale’ sign in the front and was going to use it as the cover
of a book which I’d entitle “Only in Australia!”

The next biggest mistake for self-imposed retirees, after buying the little car ‘to see them out’, is to move out to the beach, the country, a distant suburb or small town. They want to ‘get away from it all’. What they don’t realize is that we should ‘get away’ only when we’re stressed. As our stress levels drop, we need to be back where the action is, where we can fulfill our destiny of a full life. Live where the action is and stay in your community, be part of it, young and old, rich and poor, good and bad. That’s life. We’re all hard-wired to be part of this intrinsic fabric, that’s where we belong being useful to ourselves and others.

Further Reading: The Great Super ScamZero HedgeMacrobusiness


1950s Suburban Single Family House Driveway GarageImage: Roger Wilkinson

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196 thoughts on “When Pluto In Capricorn Is Your Financial Planner

  1. What an awesome book. Yes, I’ve never contemplated retirement for a second. Or life insurance (I have no dependents – shudders at the very thought). A life insurance sales person once accused me of not “taking my life very seriously”. She made the mistake of throwing my first name into this insulting sales pitch thus making it even sleazier. Without skipping a beat I replied, “no Madame, I’m taking my life incredibly seriously, I’m just not taking my death seriously.” One of those telling little defining moments that makes me love my 18 year old self with all her naively and hubris. Still knew the truth. I have my north node in Pluto in Capricorn (2nd house) and have rece

    • Recently become obsessed with empire building
      Sorry about the break in my genius flow. My pinky finger naughtily tapped post comment before I was finished ..
      This is what comes of short finger nails.

  2. Writers never retire. But i do intend to scale down in a few years and go start my permaculture farm and live the self sufficient life. Internet means im not having to choose country life over community.

  3. When I took a year-long break, it felt like a retirement and it was wonderful. If I could have permanently retired then, I would have. For the first time since early childhood I got to live according to my own rhythm, rather than that of my job or school.

    I started noticing little things I was too exhausted and stressed to enjoy before. I had long brunches. I took long walks in nature. I watched most of the life cycle of a spider attached to my window. I chatted with my neighbors for the first time since I’d moved to my apartment 12 years earlier. I had more time for friends, I had more time for reading poetry. I had more time to think and dream and enjoy things like the sounds of owls outside my window and the way the sky changed texture and color over the course of the day and the seasons. I began to be happy and live from the inside out, rather than always observing myself and worrying about measuring up.

    It seems to me that referring to “retirement” as though there is only one kind is like referring to “family” as though every family is the same. A retirement is probably as rich with meaning and experience as your inner resources can sustain. Why do we always have to be producing things – why can’t we just be? A good retirement can be freedom.

    • Yes I agree Odette. I think it’s good to slow down, and I’ve been wanting to work part time the past 10 years but part time jobs are hard to get!!

      I’d rather have more time to relax and do my art than be working a 40 or 50 hour week to get more income to live on! I don’t need a big income either, about $30K pa is luxury to me. I have a frugal lifestyle but splurge on quality not quantity for some things…

      The problem is when you’re over 50 it’s hard to get work, and if you still need to earn money it’s difficult! have never wanted to give up working all together… I’d actually get bored, I enjoy working, just not high stress full time work. I’m in favour of work/life balance for everyone…

      • I hope you find your part-time job, gemyogi.
        It’s great to have enough money so you don’t have to worry and can focus on what you love, and enough time to pursue your interests without constant distraction.

        I wish it wasn’t so hard to find work later in life. I’m struggling with that as well.

    • thanks Odette, I love your take. I’ve been wondering the same thing. Why the focus on productivity? It doesn’t equal richness.

    • Oh let me expand upon this.. I am not retired BUT I started my life over.. drastically over, hence probably what might happen to most when they retired. I moved away, far away, and found myself enjoying life, nature, new people, freedom to be adventurous and relying on the unknown.. With God’s help!! Just saying.. that what an “a-ha” moment realizing what the life change (decision) has done for me spiritually. I still have some back lash of old stubborness and direct speaks on topics but I am honestly so at peace with my life. Bumps in the road will be approached much better than before.

      Virgo Sun, Libra Rising, Leo Moon / Mars and Venus natally in Scorpio..


  4. Am reading this & remembering this 80 plus indigenous gentleman in Quito. He was carrying a basket of chamomile flowers & mint. We asked him how much they cost & he replied in the old currency, sucres. We told him we only had US dollars, he became really confused. He asked us for 50 cents. SaggEx was nearly crying & gave him 10 dollars. We wondered if he was going to be ok getting home.

    To me that is retiring age.
    Of course we want to remain the same in strength & independence as we age, but people often retire for good reasons! There is nothing graceless about retirement. We are so terrified of this stage of our lives, but like Viktor Frankl advises, attempting to avoid suffering is futile. Better to try and become worthy of it.

    • Now I am thinking about the poor stressed out near 80 year old tiny lady who was driving her beat-uptaxi cab in KL in that insane traffic, nearly killing half the road & the inhabitants of her taxi all day.
      I am pretty sure she would have wanted to retire if she could too!

    • Yes. It breaks my heart when I see elderly people working. They rarely look energized and excited – they look exhausted.

      The uber-youth-oriented societies many of us live in seem to be in complete denial that there might be a legitimately different phase in the latter part of a life that should be honored.
      There’s nothing wrong with slowing down – you see a lot more that way. I wish all the elderly people who wanted to retire, could afford to.

    • Thanks Andy, I don’t think our identities should be so tied to our work that we can’t see a useful, enjoyable or valid existence without it. Doesn’t seem very well-rounded to me. I may well work past 65 however I do not think retirement = death. I like your evocation of grace here.

  5. Yikes! The tail-end of that demolition phase will be in my sixth house. Pluto in Cap is in the last few degrees of my second house. Been feeling this for a long time, even before the 2007 recession threw a wrench at my already depleted 401K. I was laid off from a highly stressful job back in 2009 and promptly started a home sewing business (my machine has been in the shop for a month; I’m trying to be patient :/ ).

  6. i’m on board with this concept, having never given a second’s thought to retirement. the world in 30 years will be incomprehensibly different and the idea of planning for it through the vehicle of this paradigm is silly and laughable. granted, i have uranus in the 6th and an aqua mc and have never had or wanted a career in any sense of the world, so maybe i’m just trying to justify myself. but i am inspired by my mother who has just started her brilliant career post-second saturn return, and my grandfather, who finally retired at age 80 and went straight into a full day’s work of counseling and volunteerism. plus all those fabulous artists who didn’t even pick up a paintbrush for the first half of their lives- this is how i see myself. which dovetails nicely with davidl’s beautiful comments as it is spiritual exploration. really, i’m looking forward to getting older and every day living more, not less. onward!!

  7. Interesting.. I have been an outcast in my family because that is all they do is save. I never played by those rules. I just wanted to get out and have fun. I have been taking care of myself since I was 19 years old.. no help from anyone so I guess it was “trying to survive” concept. Since 2009 my idea on living has changed to living for the “now”. Spending my time trying to save money for 25 years from now and an uncertain future is somewhat out of my scope so I agree with this concept. I did have a twinge of “I want to buy my own home” recently and unconsciously maybe it is still a strong desire but… retirement??.. I never saw it! I actually had to use money from my retirement funds to get me to this much better job. That is what it is there for.. IMO. But every time the market crashes.. we loose buckets of money and have to start over. Real Estate is honestly the best asset.. no?

    Is it possible that the US government could eventually stake their claims in our retirement funds? I hope not.

    Let’s see..

  8. Great Stuff! l have my own business and l don’t save for anything….l invested some money in property (paid it cash, so no debt) and l will see what happens later if l will get so far…you never know!

    being free at 67 it’s like being an out cast.. out of society so to speak..you could even die sooner just because of the feeling of not being needed or part of anything anymore.NOT Cool!

    l think you should try to do what you like and try to do it as long as you like. That will keep you going give you purpose!
    always have something on the side something of yourself even if you have to work a shitty job for awhile!
    the whole pension stuff keeps you imprisoned as well, you can’t stop working earlier because you will miss 30% of your pension etc…

    this sounds like prison in disguise to me! interesting times!

      • Yes, I might rest the whole way through, even if its active rest…. You know the yoga, walk in nature, clean house active rest…. There is also a Pluto Venus thing going on another astrologer was talking about which sounds pretty special…

        • that’s what I had: a washing, bathing, cooking kind of pottering rest.

          Is Venus trining Pluto? I’ll try to tap into that 🙂

  9. I have a ZILLION things I would love to do on ‘retiring’ from my day job. It’s not about escaping a hateful environment either – my job is in community services so I feel good about just being there, I respect and like the people I work with and even appreciate the sense of structure having a job provides…but it’s a JOB not my whole life and letting it go will allow room for other things. I’ve job-hopped to the extent that 7 years is the longest, by far, that I’ve stayed anywhere so I’m not ‘stuck’ but there are so many ways of staying physically, mentally and emotionally active and engaged with the world around us that doesn’t involve the concept of ‘work’. I see ‘retirement’ as an opportunity to move into a new phase that has nothing to do with money-making activity…a next step in my personal development. I like working but I’m also looking forward to ‘dropping-out’ of that structure and finding out what else I can play with…finding out more about myself.

    • Totally agree with you aqualunarian!! 🙂 I definitely do NOT want to be “working” when I’m 65. And it doesn’t mean I’m giving up on life. I’m quite looking forward to the next phase. Ready now to be honest 🙂

      I have Neptune transiting my 2nd house. “A spiritual treasure becomes more important to you throughout this cycle” according to my research of this transit.

      • Yes! Onwards to new adventures and spiritual treasure-hunting! I bet you find some lovely sparkly ‘thing’ has just been waiting for you to start digging and pluck it out into the light of day 🙂

  10. As someone mentioned above, the original idea of retirement was to get off the treadmill and refind the spiritual life.
    Remember of course that work in the past was probably mainly physical and that just can’t go on forever. the ancient Hebrews were married in their teens, had a bunch of children, worked in the fields and around the 40 mark retired from family life to develop themselves intellectually and spiritually. Some texts were developed purely for over 40’s.
    I’m personally never bored and have had long sabbaticals with basically nothing to do. In fact the feeling of ‘nothing to do’ is a starting point for personal development.
    The problem with modern retirees is that they never take the time to be with themselves, with nothing to do. That is where one faces oneself and begins the journey of self discovery.
    The idea of ‘working’ for an income till you drop has connotations of capitalist zombieism to me. It’s a story that suits western systems where finding yourself an identity outside being a hard working loyal slave is dangerous to the overlords who need you to keep working and believe that not working is death.
    Although I agree with some points the author has made, most of them tell me he’s been fooled. Don’t be fooled by story’s of the ‘retirement brings on death’ it’s bullshit. Break away from being a worker bee and enjoy your life. Leave as many blank moments as you can, because they are the moments when magic can happen .

    • Yes. Looking in the mirror and not recognsing oneself, not good. I can’t conceive of having ‘nothing to do’, there’s always something fun to investigate..
      My theory is ‘work won’t sit beside you when you are dying’ so take the time to prioritise the very important things in life. We control our work. Not the other way around. It’s obvious I guess but I learnt it after feeling like I was constantly missing joyous things and time with special people. I don’t mean this like have a bad attitude about the day job. There’s nothing wrong with turning up with a smile on one’s face and ready to put in the hours. I mean remembering that you’re ultimately the one in control of your life. Choose to work, choose to whatever, take responsibility for those choices, but you’re in control. We’ll all die one day. Make sure when you look back it will be with peace not regret. X

      • Want to add. It’s not like my dayjob was slave driving me. But I was so bored with meetings where the driver for projects was profit more profit and we were accountable to a boss I never saw and shareholders I didn’t care for. Also the company was american owned and I truly didn’t understand te corporate culture that was imposed on us, artificially, remotely. V odd. Anyway Not all of my jobs were like this and obvs this is only one perspective.

    • thanks for your alternative and engaged perspective David, I agree there is a more nuanced and critical discussion to be had.

        • Yes. And in a blunt way, promoting the idea of not working=death, means that all that super money can just disappear / has already been spent. etc. The Japanese govt. lost most of its citizens super years ago, but it still shows as a balance on a piece of paper. No worries, just keep working and its not an issue, OK ?

    • Work is limited by the body’s ability. Thinking of it as adjusting pace and interests rather than retiring is more helpful. It still comes down to money. You either have enough to take care of yourself or someone else takes care of you. We have neither cohesive families willing to do that kind of care or governments or employers who can. The author’s point of trying to stay healthy and productive is well taken, but an assumption of productivity till the end of one’s life is probably not realistic and sounds very Pluto in Leo to me. Pluto in Leos have trouble with realistic thinking. Those after the Leonite Plutopians will likely be more successful in sustaining strength throughout their lives, but trying to rejuvenate in your fifties is often too late. So I think it’s more about prudent planning for realistic outcomes than seeking personal development.

      • I completely agree. By all means invest in your Awesome but never at the expense of a hardheaded savings plan for your later years. Ladies, this means you, especially, as statistically you aren’t doing well here for starters.

    • I think I’m seeing the author’s intentions as work for the love of it, or love the job you do, which is only possible if you stick at following your bliss- a commitment which is sure to present you with much downtime and opportunity to refine the spiritual life. I could be wrong though, given I haven’t read the book yet.
      As twinfishrising says above we no longer live in a working world with a linear narrative. I must say that I’m almost relieved that the rest of the world is catching up with my reality- serial contract jobs (no super there) largely doing fulfilling and ethically engaged work. Plus the whole work in a job you hate to ‘one day’ retire has always smacked of Christian ideology to me. I prefer to take my pleasures and do the work for my spirit here and now, rather than in the hereafter of retirement.

  11. I totally concur… Have always felt this way, even about holidays..Have never taken one, tho some would say my life appears like an endless holiday ( it’s not!)..

    Conceding retirement is like admitting you never had a vocation…

    I love that many baby boomers are bringing their Leo Pluto gen creativity and benevolence and charm to the fore…

    When I worked in residential aged care, I kinda fell in love with the Cancer Pluyto gen… although how obsessed they were about privacy and security. I was pondering how Pluto Leo gen might age ( in fact I think I emailed you about it Mystic)..I had nightmare visions of old people having bitch fights on stage over leading roles, and comittee meetings never ending over who might get the last word in, and people who had long ago lost their eyesight and vision thinking it was perfectly fine for them to drive the school bus!

    I expected leotards and binge drinking orgies…I didn’t anticipate this creativity and entrepreneurship but I guess that’s maturity at it’s most gracious, innit?

    But I disagree with the comment about staying active where ‘the action is”.

    “Live where the action is and stay in your community, be part of it, young and old, rich and poor, good and bad. That’s life. We’re all hard-wired to be part of this intrinsic fabric, that’s where we belong being useful to ourselves and others.”
    Perhaps this is ironically why people are moving to online communities, as their profoundly sick society disenfranchises and abuses the ageing, the ill, the sensitive and those unwed to the greed or youth obsessed ideal. Also as we age we tend to have wisened up about what action is and what talk is, and often what appears to be action is really just a lot of hoo ha. Haute Leo actually recognises ego for what it is, and doesn’t indulge. Wow, that is being very generous to Leo’s ..hehe. Ok, perhaps indulges ego, but doesn’t abuse it..

    Last year I moved to a small island and the community thrives in it’s own usefulness and creates it’s own fabric and is a wonderful place for retirees to be active.. The “hustle and bustle” of city life, competition for the sake of itself, and the impossibly high living costs of deep urban work culture are no longer a challenge to thrive off and do your best work from when your capacity for reflection or connection is filled up with meaningless hip cultural obligations to a mob who vilify the slow or the deeper thought processes that accompany ageing….

    Perhaps it’s my MC Neptune , or Pisces rising talking through a Saturn conjunct Sun, Moon, mercury but I have a lifelong interest in the elders of the world. The only ones I have ever seen graduate from working life to retirement are those who were obligated to their disdained roles and see retirement as the release from endless dreamless drudgery…

    I suspect the novelty of arriving at retirement, for those unshackling folks ,doesn’t wear off as easily as it might for us born later in the century perhaps because we no longer live in a working world with a linear narrative. This when you’re young, that when you rise to seniority, that when you put your feet up.. Our working lives are constantly adapting to rapid changes and we have mini-retirements all the time and I don’t know anyone who is still in the same role after 3 or 4 years. My point is we live in a more present society. And my understanding is that these bold and beautiful baby boomers are the perfect ones to demonstrate how to step up or stuff-up your twilight years in response to a radically different world than the one they were born into. I think we’ve all seen those bizarre loudmouthed, overgrown clowns of the baby boomer era too ( they are allover talkback radio) who tout that they are spending their kids inheritance. Like their Virgo Pluto gen kids ever even had the word inheritance in their life ethic! And then the same 60 something louts wind up in a public hospital demanding prefferential treatment and extra wotsits for their bedside while making lurid comments to nursing staff… eww…low leo..

    Wow, how off topic did I go there?

    I think investment as a life ethic, and savings as a back-up plan has all the logic my Gemini life needs. Staying active isn’t optional when you consider the alternative…stagnation..


    • Many so called active people still “working” spend endless hours observing/retired with screens- media, “reality” TV. They are in the now- of other peeps. They screen their world and filter/ soften it through the beloved- their screens.Watching and interacting with those screens is their highest good.

  12. My Dad is a plumber and farmer. Over the past 10 years he’s doing less plumbing, more farming… Every day he gets up and goes ‘to work’ taking a packed lunch and thermos with him (provided by Mum)… I don’t think he’ll ever retire unless he can’t walk… and then he’ll probably die pretty quickly. He never hurries, either, just takes his time (aged 77).

  13. Excellent topic for consideration and an interesting discussion.
    The season of eclipses, starting this Fri, seems to support such debate.
    Just felt compelled to comment.

  14. Iam definately getting this book. I work in the community with the elderly and they have retired and now there lives are lonely and some have to pay such high rents for their retirement homes. No i agree keep working and take care of yourselves. Keep out their and stay active. Stay part of the community and never get old. People decline so much when they retire. I think there will be a huge shift in thought about retirement. I cant wait to get this book it makes so much sense. Iam a Taurus and I love working taking care of people and staying active. I keep trying to keep people informed and active in their community. The older generation are very hard wired about the retirement thing and entitlements. But i see so many who could do so much more and not give up on the precious thing we call Life..

  15. Retirement = no longer needing to earn money for living expenses. I think this definition is what most think of from the word retirement. Active income versus passive income. Need being the operative word. Remaining active because you feel like it is fine. Having the choice to choose your activity rather than being forced to accrue income. Some people like to sell real estate until they drop, and that’s fine. Doing nothing has its points, too. Working our lives around to being able to have choice. Yep.

  16. depends on what your concept of work is, not your concept of retirement. I recently “retired” at 51 from working as the marketing manager for an engineering firm, working 60+ hours a week on salary. I walked away from very good money to go home and help care for my dad in his last days (he passed on Saturday evening). I also do not have the requisite $5million in the bank to keep me in the manner of which we’ve been accustomed, according to the slimeball financial managers that keep the US baby boomers in fear. This book seems to be of the same ilk – trust no one, be a prepper, your government and hospital system will not be there for you, etc. While I appreciate the message of take care of your health and stay busy, there are multiple ways to do that, including volunteering.

    • Yes I agree pamm, I personally do not agree with the philosophy of retirement equals death or boredom. I think many keep working (eg unsatisfactory day job) because they simply can’t afford not to. Others (traditionally men) have been raising families and bearing the costs of that, making personal sacrifices for the good of the (family) whole. Or a woman whose marriage ended but she has a shaky long-term financial position due to time out not earning money but raising kids etc.

      • I meant to add that retirement however you make it depends on the individual. Personally I think we should be volunteering for things throughout our lives, it’s great for becoming a part of the community and getting to know lovely people you would o’wise never meet. Expand social circles and skills, those treasured adornments of CVs everywhere!

        • I’ve always thought that volunteering should incur some kind of reward such as tax cuts or some other kind of benefit. So say a person decides to work a “paid” four day week and do one day a week volunteering at the local wilderness rehabilition area or Lifeline or some other activity – then they can apply for “good citizen rewards” of some sort.

          • that would be awesome. I would be rich 🙂

            some smarter businesses (usu corporate) have a program where their staff can go and pro-bono somewhere, or volunteer
            at a thing of their choice for various forms of corporate recognition or maybe it’s a paid day per fortnight but they’re off volunteering, that kind of thing. I think that’s cool too.

            i suppose the benefits of contributing our time and energy is a cohesive community and everything that entails. Grassroots.

            • OR you could only be nominated to be a politician if you had accrued say >300 hours of community work in a range of recognised institutions that deal with key social issues.

  17. All the comments are really interesting re: retirement!

    I’ve just started working and what people have said about mindsets re: work is true, you are brought up to think about work in a certain way, expected to work in a certain way and these things are so fixed because they are reiterated over and over.

    I’m Pluto in Scorp and gone are the days where I will stay in one company for the rest of my life. I work at an European bank in Asia and a lot of the European trainees who come over have been at the bank since their internship. Their resume consists of different job titles but all at the same bank and I’m like whut??

    Where I am, the only way to make money is to job hop every few years, NEVER get comfortable. I joke with my colleagues that those who’ve been at the bank for 5-20 years are now stuck. Another colleague just quit and he got congratulated. He was like, “I’ve got no job prospects, no idea what I’m going to do next!” And the guy who congratulated him said, “you made the first step out of this bank”.

    Yeah, nothing is permanent. I’m preparing to shoot for the moon, at least I’ll land on the stars.

  18. in my usual off the cuff and only-half-read-the-article/post style, i will say that:
    – I completely agree with the author’s thesis
    – I love people who had “former lives” particularly since I am now one of them
    – retirement takes people with the most wisdom out of circulation. NOT COOL imo
    – the notion of ‘career’ as one constant thing ending with retirement has been dead for ages, hasn’t it? yes? cool..
    – i think retirement if that’s the way it rolls should be spread out as a series
    of sabbaticals over one’s lifespan. So it’s like we’re retired for say 25 years (65-80, assuming you’re female in a first world country), why not spend some of those years while you’re able -bodied. So you have a couple of “retirement” years at age 28-30, 35-36, etcectetc.

    i could go on but i have a glass of wine to drink..

    • Oh Yes have always loved the idea of ‘sabbaticals’ when I first heard the concept from a Catholic friend. I thought… cool, I want to go to a monastery and meditate and pray and eat beans… have a break leading a simple life (and you can go and stay at these places even if you aren’t religious!).

      This was when I was in my 20s…. I’ve had one sabbatical so far… five months in Byron Bay when I was 40.

    • As i have been self employed freelancer for 35 years, i agree about taking time out, which i do for 3 months every year.
      It grounds me, makes me appreciate income when it comes, like a big reality check. Like the contrast of feast or famine.

      • Hey that’s me! Took that pix yesterday s having hair cut today AND figured out juts how to bring it up from photo booth.
        Not a luddite, true 🙂

      • Ah Pegs, you look amazing! Shining bright.

        I wish everyone had a photo avatar. Maybe we should all do it for just one day?

        • For a week coz some followers are not daily commenters.
          We have been here for many years, sorta family and a given that we will be around often for each other and in many moods.
          Wouldn’t you love to know what Leo Socialite looks like. We did see Myst on the morning TV show a while back to put a face to the name.
          And she is very very attractive and looks so innocent for such a witty wise one.
          Then there was the eye or was it eyebrow photos sent in. Many have their pix on FB.
          We are all beautiful just coz we are women ‘cept for the ‘witches with willies’:-).

  19. Fine with the no retirement thing, but “employed only star signs compatible to themselves, regardless of their qualifications” seems a bit off to me. I mean, fine if you’re doing their full natal chart and all, but to deny someone employment based on their sun sign, ick. Yes, I am the one who got fired for being a Virgo. No fun. No fair.

      • He said he hires someone to do it if he can’t, so it didn’t sound casual to me. Sun sign generalizations alone are crap at dryer ing comparability

        • I’m 100% with you on the Sun sign generalisations issue, but I read the sentence to indicate that he observed that when he got too busy to screen applicants, the people who were screening them subconsciously chose people they clicked with based on Sun signs – as if to point out that there’s some basis in astrology, even if people aren’t consciously aware of it.

          • OK – maybe that bit was ambiguous about the hiring someone to do it. But he did say “I employed
            all of my staff according to their birth signs” and my Mars in Libra does not approve.

            • On the plus side, at least he didn’t fire people based on their Sun signs.

              P.S. I hope your work life is much happier now you’re away from the anti-Virgo bastards. x

            • True and thanks. I am trying to be a better Virgo – collaborate and ask for help – stuff like that .

    • Um yar! the only people that retire in the traditional (in capitalism culture) are the people w permanent work… And in Australia that accounts for 47% of the population, maybe less…. That’s a lot of people that this paradigm is not even talking to, no or little super, savings or assets…

      aside from this in Hindu culture when a man (of course a man in that ultimately patriarchal culture) retires into sadhana, spiritual practice,… Despite this the spirituality is questionable, but I think there are other activities such as contemplation and teaching which are soo important. For the retiree age group…

      I was ready to retire at the age of 25, exhausted by life, tired of working low paid jobs just to have a roof over my head, no time or space to discover what I loved…. Its a gift if you get that time and space, a gift most humans do not get…

    • Totes, both of you. Your first para nails it, f ala air. And anon, yes, his argument does hark back to Marx a bit (alienation, etc) but seems to miss Marx’s broader point!

      I admit I haven’t read all of Bogan’s book so I may be doing him a disservice here. But – the slant put on it in the convo reported here sounds like the usual survival of the fittest thing that has been the mantra of this economic system since time immemorial. As Mystic has said in the past – but not here – the underlaying assumptions/things conveniently ignored, feels somewhat sociopathic, at its core.

      Forget retirement and keep working? Sure – I can’t see myself vegetating, as long as I draw breath. But let’s not get too excited: best to keep it firmly in mind (as I am sure Mystic and most of you do) that we aren’t talking a realistic panacea for all, or even a majority, here. The stats – and realistic future forecasts – say just the opposite. So fine to give it a go, but don’t bank on it.

      (1) Unless you are exceptional, you may find you CAN’T keep or find employment with a company in old age, post current retirement age. Sure, an ageing demographic might change this a little, but it is unlikely to change a whole lot in a globalised market for labour.

      (2) Re self-employment: great, but even if we are talking low outlay internet based businesses that don’t require much start up cash as an option to keep working and be self-sufficient in retirement, the fact is this. If we ALL decided to become budding small business people in late – or even earlier in life – doing our thing creatively, then the rate of small business failure (check it out: massive) would vastly increase, even in areas of expanding demand, since a supply glut leads to a rationalisation, and a shedding of less successful players. Where there is perfect competition amongst many small players, revenue ends up having to equal costs. Those who have some kind of advantage – early entry, additional skill, whatever, survive and increase their market share. But the vast majority will fail since they can barely cover their costs

      The success of those who DO survive DEPENDS on many other small players in the market having to throw in the towel. Just as the standards of living of most of us have/will depend on the low prices generated by those who have to work for shit wages doing shit work WE don’t want to do, and favourable tax rates that don’t ask us to pay for the increasing number who won’t be able to cover their living costs in old age.

      So, then, does the right to a dignifed life depend on being exceptional in the Pluto in Cap economy? If that is the case, then let us at least be honest enough about the implications of what we are saying, and compassionate enough to support goddam euthanasia for the majority – who can’t by definition, be “exceptional” in terms of income generating capacity, since exceptional implies different to the norm? Or let’s go the whole hog, with the Nazi’s, and support eugenics so we weed ’em out before they are even born, the average people who we won’t pay enough such that they can pay for their own retirements…?

      Ok, ok, so I am being provocative and don’t have the answers….just sayin’. Tired: been marking essays on just such questions for days and thinking about it all does your head in, if you really get into it! Off to bed!

      • Apologies, yes your right miss fi, I didn’t do the man real justice w my ramble… Maybe it was more of a post structuralist comment, the kind that peters off into the abyss of comments… I’m tired too…

        i cannot do this topic justice on my single pointed finger typing on my phone I just cant get the same flow….

        Eve if were all to create a different economy we still have the fallout from this one to deal w…. Environmental in particular… Maybe all the baby boomers could return to their revolutionary roots when capitalism no longer needs them…

        • God, don’t apologise! I always feel uplifted when I read your posts: ever willing to question the conventional (or popular in the moment) wisdom, and ever spot-on. Just less long-winded than me! x

      • I appreciate you making this effort Fi and articulating many of the underlying issues I have been thinking about in relation to this.

        I wonder who cleans Mr Bogan’s house and if they feel rah rah about working forever? This is a book written for people with choices on the backs of people with fewer options.

            • Cheers, guys x Stellium on Scorp ascendant, here Perhaps uber-scorp types of the haute variety are particularly attuned to structural imbalances of power….the who wins, who loses side of the equation.
              (Mind you in my case I can blame Sagg Sun/Merc for tendency to get up on soap box – and Virgo Uranus Pluto for tendency to pick apart the details!)

      • Fi, you’re not being provocative at all. It all makes perfect sense to me.

        Thanks for taking the time to write. Always enjoy reading your comments.

  20. Great topic! Retirement is yet another construct born out of a different economic era. In fact the age 65 was chosen based on life expectancy. My Cap soon to be ex is obsessd with retirement. It actually scares me how old beforr his time he is. I have only just got started and intend never to retire.

  21. I know that being in a job so stressful is part of the pressure cooker environment for a emotional/nervous breakdown. Having spent almost 9 years dealing with trauma, abuse, neglect and all major life circumstances that people experience (for example: birth, separation and death). I still carry this stories with me and their past is entwined with mine. Thank you everyone for discussing your career journeys. I admire you all for realising what you would like to do and following that path. Now I would like to discover what I should be doing next.

    • Ahhh… What a breath of fresh air you are….. How wonderful to be in the space of discovery… Over and over….

    • S sorry if this is wierd but were you in the army or something? military? I keep thinking that when I read your comments. Entirely possible that I am crazy .

      • It was a battlefield but that’s frontline Public Service in Human Services. Love organisation and well executed outcomes but a great deal of emotional casualties along the way. Coworker cancer was very high. The number of people who would retire and then dead within a week of leaving, all they wanted to do was take a break. I love that saying “Love what you do and you’ll never work a day in your life.” Good luck to everyone with this quest.

  22. At last!!!!!!!!!!
    I’M NOT CRAZY!!! I could not agree more – i have been saying this for a gazzillion years RETIRE THEN DIE….I have seen it with my own parents who retired 3 years ago and have turn from vibrant pulsing out there human beings to erm well sloths – who although they have no financial worries have no get up and go whatever now and are like very prematurely old people – they’re not yet 70 and i’ve seen livelier 90 year olds..you have to be like a shark – if its stops swimming it drowns…..:)

  23. I’m so glad to hear so many say this. I have never understood the concept of retiring from life, being forced to stop, this idea of going off to a remote location and bowing out. Some wealthy people i know who are retired travel a lot, go scuba diving, move about. They seem pretty busy and involved with the people in the communities they have formed. If you need a permaholiday from life were you ever really living it?

    I’m curious now: i’m about to go off and ask my folks what they think of the concept of retirement. I couldn’t believe when people in the city i just left asked if my folks were retired. They run a hectic office and have clients from both ends of the country. They prop up the branches of the family. They still look young! They are so engaged in life, if conservative at times, to me. And they’re Air Signs…i just can’t see them laying in striped hammocks somewhere, not for very long.

    • totally get it Mille. re permaholiday and also my multi-multi air mum, who has a entire next life planned when she retires at nearly 70. I keep telling her to just be happy and do fun things now but …*shrugs*

  24. Some dickhead from my bank told me i could only live off my savings for three months at the rate i spend. Heigh-ho, heigh ho its off to work i go! if i had a family crypt on some good real estate i would definitely sell it to pay for a boob lift. And this is great though. My trainer says that you should work out more as you get older, so that things do not atrophy. Susan Sarandon is my role model for all this.

    • You kill me TLS! I wish you’d write a book or a blog or something… I’d also be in favour of selling the family crypt for a boob lift! 🙂

    • yep I am down for being the buff retiree. (lol as well as buff 30-something, getting there..again). If my various yoga and pilates teachers in their 50s-60s are anything to go by,keeping on working out is the way to go.

      Also I have been looking up martial arts classes lately. I need discipline .. haha.
      Anyone have opinions on any particular forms? I was sort of looking at wing chun or hapkido.

      • Weellll. If you watch Ultimate Wrestling*, its always the Ju Jitsu guys who win. Just make sure you get Japanese, not Brazilian.

        * I admit to nothing here.

      • I’m biased towards aikido and kick boxing. Different arts suit different peeps, and then same with instructors.

        Best thing I can recommend is to call all the places you’re thinking about and ask if you can watch or join in a class before signing up and decide from there which style/school/people have the best vibes.

        • yes. there is at least one school that I have discovered that does a free class offer before you sign up.. there is some good advice out there, the best so far being find a teacher who you think is Excellent, then you will always be motivated to get to class.

      • I have no idea about martial arts but I know several Venus in Aries women who do various forms of it and it seems to really agree with them!

        • thanks C, yes I am really missing that feeling of invincibility that came with being fit and strong a little while ago. need martian release things. WAY too much yin going on in my life at the moment, i feel like I am drowning in my own blah…

          • I can totally relate to this 110% … I’ve had enough of blobzilla city already – need to get my yang on and my get my abs of steel back like yesterday!

  25. I like the idea of just chilling out for the rest of my life but after 4 months of not working (and studying part time), I’m starting to create my own drama ,playing out in my head, out of boredom.

    It’s also kind of like being put out to pasture really, isn’t it?

    At the moment I’m studying fitness and the point was raised that we reach a point in our lives where we do the whole “I’m too old for this” and we start relaxing and taking it easy and stop exercising/training. Big no no. When you’re older, you should be doing the likes of strength training. If you don’t, then shit starts falling apart and you lose strength, health and well being!!

    So I guess the point is not to live an unhappy life and wait it out until you can relax in death’s waiting room and instead to be active and keep at it and have fun until you’re time’s up (which incidentally leads to a longer and healthier mind and body). Sounds good to me.

  26. Totally agree with this dude! I see absolutely no point in retirement – retirement to do friggin what? Sit around on one’s arse with my brain atrophying? No thanks! If I’m not fit enough to live into old age I’d rather be dead. Life is for living, not hobbling around propped up by unnatural medications, being a leech off society and expecting everyone to look after me.

    I’ve never “worked a job” that I hated for an end material gain. I simply do not have the internal makeup to be that inauthentic. My creative work as a designer, self employed for the past five years or so, has given me the kind of lifestyle that I enjoy. One where work is fluid with the rest of one’s life … I tried working to standard business hours and found it ridiculous. Creativity does not flow according to artificial time constraints.

    Currently I am studying a BA with double majors in history and visual art. I actually only realised my interest in history when I was obliged to study a core unit as part of my degree which incorporated sociology/history. It was not the dry tedious subject I thought – but a living, ongoing narrative about human life. Fascinating not only in regards to how we’ve changed as a society, but also recognisng how much we’ve also stayed the same.

    I plan on doing a masters and possibly a PhD in my 50+ years, perhaps become a writer, researcher or something .. but basically working in the field of human right and environmental rights in some way. I’m sure the path will be made clear as the journey unfolds! 😀

    • hey if you’re interested in security studies, like later on or whenevs, there are some (imo) really interesting schools of thought about human rights / security , environmental security, etc..

        • Seems that the humanities and the sciences are still firmly separated by that fine line of fluffy theorising and hard fact. Since I’m doing a BA it’s the humanities stream I’m focused on and whilst I’d love to do some units on environmenalism there’s nought to be had. Since I’m studying part time, still in first year units too – so ancient history and the medieval era … thought it best to start from scratch. 😉

          • hmm, there should be some stuff in later-year philosophy subjects, or are you sure you cant do an elective in a you know, cross-faculty subject? anyway. hope you find the subjects you want 🙂

            • First year is pretty restrictive, for sure, but Pi is right – check out cross-linked units offered post first-year. Beyond philosophy units per se, suspect sociology/social science and policy/anthropology or pol sci type units might have such content included wherever you are, even if they don’t focus exclusively on the environment for a whole semester, but look at it all in the context of broader debates about, say, (economic) development theory, globalisation, or the pol sci of international co-operation?
              Where I am, there are certainly plenty of options to get into all of it – politics, ethics, economics, philosophy, human rights, in relation to environmental issues – in later year elective units allowed with all the possible variations on an Arts degree

  27. I cannot imagine wanting to retire, ever. It’s one thing to save in case you can’t ever work again at some point, but to choose that, you may as well choose bordom and monotony to coexist with the things you’d like to do until the last day.

  28. I totally agree with this concept and it is something I have been thinking a lot about lately. My father in-law retired from a large company at 65 and promptly started his own small business and it has been going from strength to strength each year and he hits 72 this year and doesn’t even look like slowing down. Thankyou Mystic I’m going to find this book and purchase it.

  29. I love this way of thinking, will definitely have to add this to my list of things to read when I have some free time…

    Off-topic side note: I’d bet my last dollar David Bogan has Scorpio rising – I wish I could see his chart.

  30. A few years ago when I was super lost in terms of career and such, I got a book called the Pathfinder. It was there that I realized that I never intended on retiring. Yes – I would have drawn out periods of downtime(this became clear as I was ending a cycle of my life and was just coming out of a horrendous abyss of a dark night of a soul) – but I truly realized the point is to live life fully and keep going! At that time I actually felt like stopping – and I sort of did to an extent(it was like an early “retirement” I was going through), and my health failed quite a bit in that short amount of time. There was nothing I felt like I could keep going for. Thats scary when youre in your late 20’s… to feel that empty. To be that empty.

    But with that lesson learned – Fuq hitting your prime when you are 30. Not even when youre 40. Im going to hit my m*th&%f*ckin prime in my 80’s and I aint going to quit!

    • But with that lesson learned – Fuq hitting your prime when you are 30. Not even when youre 40. Im going to hit my m*th&%f*ckin prime in my 80?s and I aint going to quit!

      A massive FuqYeah to that!

    • I am kind of in that rut… it is strange to feel like that when everyone is telling you that your mid-20s are the best time of your life. Trying to shift my perspective and instead of think “I’ll have ___ by ___ if I ____” do what I love every day so that I don’t have to worry about checking off boxes!

      • What was funny about the rut I went through is that I had no idea how deeply entrenched I thought that way deep inside of me without my knowing on a conscious level – that “if I do ___ by the time I’m ___, then I will be happy” type thinking. Weird yeah, and sounds stupid, but, that was a big realization for me to even know I thought that way. And even so, how damaging that was for my development… So Pluto did his thing on my Sun stellium for a majorly long time(almost a decade) and made me let go of everything I had or done that perpetuated that belief. Which was, like, everything. (Before 30!) Everything I hoarded and saved and stashed away, things i learned that I thought I would not have to re-learn in the near future, or simply things I thought were “safe”, were dissolved. Pluto forced me to live in the moment and learn to be (outwardly) thankful for it. For when it passed, that moment would not come again. It also forced me to see that my true wealth was in my physical and psychological health as well as diet/fitness as I started battling health issues that were worse than a cold/flu for the first time in my life. What really brought things together for me was adopting an attitude of gratitude. Really taking the time everyday to be happy and thankful for everything I had in the moment, no matter how insignificant. Never taking anything for granted… So yeah, even though Im in my early 30’s and even though all my friends have marriages/kids/mortgages/dream careers, I wont ever put myself down because I havent kept up with the Joneses or whatever superficial reason(SN in Capricorn 7th – super “responsible” type programming running in background). All I am responsible for is myself and my own happiness(NN in Cancer 1st) – and that is quite an eccentric league away from my peers, Ive finally understood. And Im ok with that 🙂

        • “early 30?s and even though all my friends have marriages/kids/mortgages/dream careers”

          Yep, I was 45 before I started studying art. Which I always wanted to do but was too sensible to do after high school…
          But I’m in a far better place to be an artist now. And I do have a mortgage but am single and have no kids… Don’t compare yourself with others, the grass is always greener, but often they are jealous of you having less commitments! Took me a long time to appreciate this.

          • I grew up in a very strict, performance based household, and went to an insane college. Yes, my peers are in their early 30’s and have those things I’ve mentioned.

            But yes, wise words GemYogi, thanks! Coming out the other end of my Pluto, I’m much more grateful for what I (don’t) have 🙂

            • I feel you so much on this. I’m the oldest and my parents put a lot of pressure on me so I feel like my early 20s were kind of learning who I was at all outside of them and de-perfectionizing. If my childhood’s theme was Saturn it’s definitely Pluto now!

      • It is terribly annoying how people like to create boxes with an age range on the lid.

        It is even more annoying how when i am feeling at low ebb i almost start to buy into the fear this creates. I wasn’t born for this fearbased constrictiveshit! It’s a kind of Qi Vamping, isn’t it?

        Life has ebbs and flows. I have been through the longest ebb i have ever known and it has been scary. I think the fear that it is forever, not a passing thing, is detrimental to health. Fight to stay elastic!

        • It is! That is the worst thing about it! I don’t *actually* believe any of what I think when I get depressed and measure myself up to cultural norms and come up short. But when I feel sad and fearful I fake myself out.

          Time to be fearless in the face of doubt and depression and remember this comment as a bookmark.

        • Completely agree! Its like people expect us to behave like robots, or objects, and stick to this timed schedule of development and qi flow and such. Like you say, life ebbs and flows, and that is different for everybody in the range it comes in. Anybody looked into Bazi, chinese astrology? if youre into that kind of stuff(which I will take a risk and assume since were on an astro site here), they show luck pillars for every decade of the year of someone’s life – showing good and bad periods, etc. I have yet to see a pair of people with similar looking luck pillars in their life.

          And so true again, staying elastic is very important. If you calcify, its easier to break you.

  31. This is very cool. The other day I was asking someone about their experience with studying for Traditional Chinese Medicine as I really would love to study it or chiropractic but have reservations because the school is so expensive, I just finished my regular degree, and I am scared that I’ll graduate and be saddled with a ton of debt by the time I’m just hitting 30. She told me that I had hit on the biggest myth of modern times — that we need to be settled into our perfect careers and relationships by 30 and just coast from there. It really made me see just how much conventional thinking about life and work has infected me although deep down I know I want a life where I love my work so much that I never want to stop!

    Working on it…my family is very “security”-oriented and fear-based and even though I don’t agree with them intellectually growing up that way still affects me on an emotional level I think.

    • I am an acupuncturist and have been licensed to practice for 15 years, with four years of schooling before that. I think it is a great profession and you can do so much with it, even more than when I first started school. It’s becoming more integrated with other forms of medicine and more people in the West are open to it and are interested in receiving acupuncture and using herbal medicine.

      I went to Five Branches in Santa Cruz, California. Good school!

      I say go for it.. 🙂

      • No way! I grew up in Santa Cruz and I go to Five Branches in San Jose for treatment. It’s the school I’ve been dreaming of going to. 🙂 Small Internet.

        • COOL! Well I hope you get to attend Five Branches as a student at some point! It’s totally worth it!
          At least they offer financial aid now. They didn’t have it when I was there. I was lucky to have generous parents and I also worked part of the time I was in school.

          Yeah, Santa Cruz is great. I lived there 20 years. Now I live in the city and wonder why….it’s so crazy here. I think of ‘retiring’ (ha ha!) back to Santa Cruz……

    • I agree with Flowerchild, go for it! It might cost you a fortune but education debt is smart debt (borrowing for assets or education), not stupid debt (borrowing for stupid shit that depreciates). If you’re passionate about it and good at what you do, you’ll have it paid off in no time once you qualify.

    • Me too! I was raised in a similar way so a career change for me right now was a huge deal. I basically feel like I’ve hit the reset button on my life, which is a big thing for me to come to terms with. I’m having some security/teething issues with it at the moment but at the end of the day, I think it’ll be worth it and money is only money – easy come easy go really.

      • So what I was actually trying to get at before I got all self involved in my post LOL was that you should go for it! 😉 If you’re following what you love and passionate about, the money will come and you’ll sort that stuff out. 😉

    • I can not understand peeps who have one career their whole life!!! Gads, how boring! I’ve had a couple of career changes so far and I’m ‘only’ 48… now planning to learn WordPress web design to complement my ‘old school’ graphic design qualifications, and hope to have some new jobs/career paths coming up in the next decades!!!
      I’m a Gem sun! I hate getting bored… or doing the same thing day after day, year after year…

      • Oh, I hear you. One of my oldest friends – a Torro – has been in the same industry for nearly 40 years and has had worked in only two places in all that time, I CANNOT imagine that.

        I’d love to speak to you Gemyogi about getting the website up and running for my the business I’m launching – there’s nothing like Saturn in Libra for the last few years and then being one of the ‘unlucky’ public servants and loosing my job due to the recent change in government here in Queensland to broaden one’s horizons vis a viz work and business and what to do for the rest of my life 😉

        • Sure Watery, send me the deets. Mind you, I have to learn how to do it first!!! but will only take a couple of months… learning as I go 😉

          • Thanks! I do like to use peeps I ‘know’ to do work for me 🙂 Hmmm, how to get in touch though? I’m a bit wary of posting my email address here for all the world to see.

    • You should follow your dreams if you feel strongly about it.

      I will offer one practical caveat though. I’m sure everyone will think I’m a debbie-downer but idgaf. I have friends who do Chinese Medicine and they have given me some insight on it. If you plan on following this path, go into it with little to no debt because you will accrue debt as you go through schooling and your first 5 years of practice. So if it takes say 4 years to graduate plus 5 years of opening a biz, you have to plan for 9 years of poverty minimum. (If you can accrue enough money to live off for 9 yrs that would be best.) Unless you hook up with star potential money pullers, the average income your first 5 years will be like $15K-$20 depending on your location. If you are cool with living like that or like you have a rich husband to take care of you, I say go for it!!! Also the burn out rate is pretty huge and under-reported. It tends to happen before the 10th year of practice. Anyways, some practical advice for ya!

      • Much appreciated! Yes, this is where I am being practical and thinking that I only want to do it if my other entreprenurial aspirations take off. I have no delusions about becoming rich off it, it’s more of a passion and interest. 🙂

        One of my businesses I am working on now has to do with the field without being a practitioner. Maybe my role in life is not to hands-on-heal but to help people get the help they need and help practitioners be financially secure for the great work they do.

  32. I’ve been thinking about this subject a lot lately. Good stuff and I want to read that book!

    I’m 45 year old and American. I am a health care provider in private practice, so I don’t need to ever retire.
    With the state America is in, I don’t think I’ll even have the choice to retire, and have thought that for a long time now, that I shouldn’t even ever think about retiring.
    They just cut Social Security down more even though it was never enough for anyone to live on in the first place, and I also personally don’t have much in the way of retirement savings.

    I have Venus in Capricorn in the 6th house……work, work and more work, eh? I read once, though, that Venus in the 6th can make you lazy……I can be a bit lazy…..I like working, but not like 80 hours a week. I enjoy a leisurely pace. I don’t have the stamina for 80 hours a week.

    I do enjoy my career. Would like to become even more successful at it and make some more money while I’m at it, too.
    I like the idea of taking some long vacations, but not ever completely retiring.

    • That’s interesting that your Venus is linked to your occupation (6th house, health)… I also have Venus (chart ruler) in Cap but in the 9th house and am admitted lifelong learner, obsessive, and dangerously curious type. Sun in 10th and I’ve done the passionate relationship thing with no real fulfillment. I’ve always known that career is going to be the love of my life but that’s why I am so choosy about doing something I love and kind of slow to explore then launch. 😀

      I’m working on a side business to match people up with effective treatments according to their symptoms and the testimonies of others. Kind of a database I’m building that operates on an affiliate marketing model…speaking as a person just losing their health insurance at 25 who has dealt with chronic health issues my whole life (+ Saturn just having been through the 6th and learning so much from crisis) I think that alternative medicine, bodywork, and taking responsibility for one’s health is the future and that you’ll be doing just fine in the coming years.

      • Yeah, I’m definitely a health-nut, even before I became an acupuncturist. I got into yoga and nutrition at age 19 while I was attending UCSC.
        Was pre-med but then switched to wanting to study Chinese medicine. I feel blessed about all of that.

        Also, speaking of switching careers. I had a sort of ‘career’ starting as a teen, as I had seriously studied classical ballet and had gone to New York and the whole nine yards to pursue it as a career, but it is such a grueling, competitive and unhealthy lifestyle that eventually I couldn’t take it, even though I loved the art. It kind of messed with my mind at that young age.
        I think all of that pushed me into the natural health field, in order to feel better physically and emotionally, myself, first.

        Anyway, I entered acupuncture school at age 25 and there were tons of people in my class who were pursuing TCM as a second career. People in my class were in their 30’s, 40’s and even 50’s, so yeah, it’s definitely something you can do at anytime in your life and be successful at it.
        You can do it! 🙂

        • p.s. Your database sounds like a wonderful idea! Kudos to you for dreaming it up! I’m sure you will help a lot of people to find the healing they need.

  33. So cool and true. When I saw that little pink house photo I went “Aah !”

    (I can imagine someone in there watching a lot of soap operas and game shows while waiting for their grown up kids to call four times a day cuz they hate their job too !?

  34. Fuq yeah. That’s why I’ve started my career as an artist mid life. Because when you’re an artist you never retire! You just have longer tea breaks…

        • This is brilliant and SO liberating..thank-you Mystic!! I’m 52 and have spent last few years with Saturn in Libra (on Sun and ascendant )freaking out about my future no pension etc etc. Since Saturn in Scorp, ( on Neptune, Mercury and Venus conjunction in Scorp) in 1st house, transformation is an understatement.. artist also and feel totally focused on paring down inessential extraneous bollox, being healthy and making work and being around cool inspirational people…not those aspiring to gathering and sitting on a whole pile of crap in their twilight years……Goddess forbid!

    • Totally!
      Look at all the great artists who pretty much died with a paintbrush/pen/chisel in their hands- Louise Bourgeios, Georgia Okeefe, Margaret Olley…
      Often such people don’t get into their stride until their 70’s or 80’s!

    • OOoh and I’d also like to add that being an artist is good for arthritis too. When Renoir was asked, at the age of 83 or something, how he still painted beautiful women with his hands twisted with arthritis, he basically replied “Because I paint with my dick”*

      *This is a crude translation, but funny 😀

    • HEY link,I really really enjoyed reading your horoscopes but I can’t find you on the net anymore-where have you gone???? Xxxx

  35. Love this! I have Venus in Aries in the 6th – gotta do what I love. Work keeps me happy and sane – it’s my social life too – have met my besties through work, not to mention financial well-being and meeting my current beau 😉 And I’m way more organised when I’m working.

  36. 😯

    This is fantastic! I know of some people who, after a string of health/stress issues, have just sold their house and are off to retire by the seaside, they’re only 65! I asked the man what are you going to do with yourself and he says nothing, just walk by the seaside.

    But then what?

    I think the word ‘nothing’ freaked me out more than anything. Nothing, I can’t even imagine…

    Meanwhile I know of other people in their 70’s who’ll never stop working. I like that model better.

    • I think its because your a gemini. Some people enjoy doing “nothing” but communicating and and getting up everyday enjoying life without an agenda.

    • I feel the same way Gemmy. Dad is my inspiration at 80 as even tho he can’t fly anymore (they will not pass his physical due to diabetes at his age) he still sits in his cockpit and tinkers with knobs and switches and shit 🙂 & goes for walks and does the gym three times a week. He is fit and trim and did it all on sheer discipline..Even with diabetes he does not take medication because he watches his diet very strickly. I really must check his chart to see where his Saturn and Cap stuff are as think he is Cap rising but don’t remember.

      I did putter and “do almost nothing” for three years when I was home on back surgeries. I had thought no thanks but one thing I did love was doing what I wanted when I wanted as in “if not today, maybe tomorrow” haha. x

  37. Gods I totally agree with all of this! My parents retired early and I got to watch them turn from being entrepreneurs to crazy people who vacuumed the driveway (mum) or sat like a lump in front of the tv (dad) almost overnight. Thankfully volunteer work has turned the tide somewhat. Engagement in the world enriches your mind, your body, your confidence! I’m stopping when I fall over dead. Plus super is a joke if you’ve spent most of your life doing contract work. When I get my hands on it I’m going to turn it into a startup of some kind. I want to read that book!

    • vaccuming the driveway…oh dear lol…

      Have a couple of retired neighbors and they are so nosy!

      One day I was kind of a biatch when with my older Honda I had to change a tire…yes, did it myself, and the old fart gent came up and started to horn into my biz and I was like, I KNOW, my dad taught me how to change tires when I was 16..

  38. Retire? I don’t think so. My family does not do that. My Dad will be 82 this year and he and Mum are still working selling real estate. You should see the look of horror on people’s faces when I tell them that my folks still work.

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Mystic Medusa