Margaret Thatcher Was Saturn Trine Pluto

Margaret Thatcher Time Magazine cover. It says Britain's Fighting Lady and is dated July 1979Regardless of your politics, the Eighties Prime Minister of Britain, Margaret Thatcher, was a potent example of Saturn trine Pluto. The so-called Iron Lady was a Libra, with Saturn Rising in Scorpio. When you have a Scorpio Ascendant, it means Pluto is your ruler. So Saturn trine Pluto made the whole deal exceptionally strong.

It was a Saturn Pluto conjunction in Libra, in the early Eighties that ushered in the Neo-Liberal era and of course, Thatcher was a key player. Her Saturn trine Pluto was that same energy. Saturn and Pluto in alignment force structural change. When they’re occurring, society is in transition. When you are born with Saturn trine Pluto, you desire worldly power and the means to impose your vision. If there is no such opportunity, you make it. And as the daughter of a greengrocer, she was not ‘to the manor born.’

Saturn Trine Pluto People Have An Almost Supernatural Work Ethic

It’s hard to believe now, but at the time Thatcher came to power, there was a prevailing belief that women were generally too weak, whimsical or hormonal for such positions. You can dislike her administration or philosophy, as I do, but she sure as hell did a lot to dispel the ‘weak women’ stereotype.

She was renowned for frightening drunken (male) M.P.s who were staggering back to their office at 2 a.m. to sleep off their alcoholic stupor. There would be Thatcher, perfectly poised and coiffured, gliding around working.

Saturn trine Pluto is one of the most robust work ethics that you can have. The ambition of Saturn supports the Plutonic drive to reform and regenerate. It can be an awkward personal position if less ambitious or anti-fragile people surround you. People could try to almost shame you for being ‘too intense’ or obsessive.  As with any Saturn aspect, it becomes better with age. Saturn is, after all, the God of Time.

Image: Time Magazine

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Darrell
Darrell
April 15, 2013 1:20 pm

And so here’s what the Sabian Symbols have to say about Margaret Thatcher’s Libra Sun, at 19-20 degrees, from Dane Rudhyar’s book ‘An Astrological Mandala’.. beginning at *19degLib.. A GANG OF ROBBERS IN HIDING.. Protest against disharmonic Social privilege.. One might think of Robin Hood & his band, or early Bolsheviks in Russia robbing banks to finance the revolution. The protest may be against an unbalanced Society with its rigid stratification into classes can be seen as a positive factor, even if it challenges the principle of order, for it reveals dynamic qualities in individuals & the will to transformation.… Read more »

Quintile
Quintile
April 13, 2013 8:06 am

Fab post @ whimsy et al, on US astrology – spot on and also the US attained a real peak with the pluto in cancer generation too – approx 1925 – 1940 I think. BTW Australia is Capricorn – 1/01/1901 the day Australia was created from the 6 colonies. Very apt I think – hardworking, conservative, pragmatic, but also status obsessed, materialistic etc – high cheekbones ? our landscapes against the wide sky? but I don’t want to bad mouth caps !!! Sydney is Aquarians – 26/01/1788 and I think that totally fits too – you can literally wear anything… Read more »

calypso scorp
calypso scorp
April 13, 2013 8:20 am
Reply to  Quintile

hi Quin, I liked the geo-astro stuff too, and thanks for adding to it so well!

Quintile
Quintile
April 13, 2013 8:27 am
Reply to  calypso scorp

Thanks – glad you saw it – am catching up on the blog and wanted to see where the Maggie T stuff had gone 🙂

calypso scorp
calypso scorp
April 13, 2013 11:31 am
Reply to  Quintile

i particularly loved your interpretation of Sydney’s built & natural landscapes combining as the water bearer. The notion that the US reached some kind of zenith with the Pluto in Cancer generation is really interesting – but I’m not sure how to read it…do you mean the achievements of the people born during that period or the events of that period itself? Also, Aus as Cap….remembering an idea that Caps often have difficulty in childhood – am I right? Might resonate with a history of establishment through conflict and violence, invasion/genocide (with understanding that that damage is not isolated in… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 13, 2013 1:56 pm
Reply to  calypso scorp

Agreed re Aust – all that angst saying “sorry” etc .
with the generational Pluto, I guess it plays out the current sign placement ( ie transiting pluto in cancer) as well as seeds the generation ( natal pluto in cancer who spawned the ‘ me generation ‘ ie pluto in Leo

Thoughts?

Quintile
Quintile
April 13, 2013 1:57 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

That was me 🙂

calypso scorp
calypso scorp
April 13, 2013 11:08 pm
Reply to  Quintile

I don’t know Quin, but when I think of 25-40 Stateside I veer from Gatsbyesque wealth and indulgence to Steinbeck’s Joad on the road. I guess the children of that generation were the mid-century Americans….that evokes for me postwar flannel suits and suburban dislocation, the space race – which I think of as a grand folly but what do I know – and the civil rights movement. So no analysis for you, just a set of pop culture references gleaned at historic and geographic distance. I wonder what sign you think the UK is??!! VERY different culture tot he US.… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 14, 2013 12:22 am
Reply to  calypso scorp

Nick Campion sets the UK birth chart for 25 Dec 1066, when William was crowned. Which gives England (at least) an Aries rising chart with A Cap Sun.

The US has a “Mommy Problem” with its Cancer Sun.
The Mommy is clearly England.

Or it could be read as a parent/child dynamic.

Either way, these two exist along the same astro axis, which is significant, given their common histories and mutual interests.

whimsy
whimsy
April 14, 2013 12:22 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Me, Whimsy.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 14, 2013 2:47 pm
Reply to  whimsy

Yes, it’s interesting homw much of this has become about the cultural gap between the Americans and the English. Part of it must also be about how Americans treat their politicians as royalty, when the English already have a royal ramily, so are more likely to treat politicans with a strong degree of cynicismPart of it must also be about how Americans treat their politicians as royalty, when the English already have a royal ramily, so are more likely to treat politicans with a strong degree of cynicismPart of it must also be about how Americans treat their politicians as… Read more »

Seabird
Seabird
April 13, 2013 9:53 pm
Reply to  Quintile

LOL – I thought Aus. was a Cap but all the places I looked said Sagg!! Fits better than my interpretation – and all the Caps I know tell it exactly as they see it. They don’t mean to hurt, they think that truth is beauty.

And it is.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 9:16 pm

I have no idea if this is true, but someone posted it in the comments section of Eric Francis’ site (Planet Waves): “A Brit friend of mine posted this on facebook a few days ago: During a private conversation in the spring of 2010 the Baroness Thatcher reportedly expressed feeling “bottomless sorrow” for her influence on global culture, and “overwhelming gratitude” at her acquaintance with LSD at the age of 84. She chose to take the drug as part of a private treatment programme for the management of dementia having developed an interest in it while campaigning for mental health… Read more »

whimsy
whimsy
April 12, 2013 10:05 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Wow. What an earthquake that would cause if it were made well known. Of course she’d be dismissed by her own conservatives as a delusional drug user. And the whole thing treated as a hoax.

If this is true, perhaps she did not end as badly as we imagine.

andromeda
andromeda
April 12, 2013 10:17 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

That’s very well written. A part of me either feels it is possible it is true, or really wants it to be true.

It does go back to our discussion whimsy about great people losing their way under the intense force of power. Power corrupts! Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

As a fellow soul journeying home to Light I salute Margaret Thatcher. On a spiritual level at least, I believe all things can be forgiven.

Fi
Fi
April 12, 2013 10:52 pm
Reply to  andromeda

lol, I can’t see MT using the words “centralised economic power” (since she was totally opposed to such in the first place), let alone “needy way” or “dependency thing”, I’m afraid. LSD can prompt insights as any of us who dabbled know, but I strongly suspect that whomever is reporting the conversation – if it occurred at all – is fibbing more than a wee bit to support their personal ideological position in relation to both economics, political ideology, and drug policy!

Yello
Yello
April 12, 2013 10:36 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

I cant believe that’s true. Sounds like something someone wished she HAD said.

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 12, 2013 11:36 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

I believe it!! I honestly believe it! It is the biggest fear that we should have that we don’t treat people with respect and love before we pass. It will catch up to you. I was thrown the floor in 2009 realizing that. I honestly was on my hands and knees asking for Gods help and people.. He gave it to me. So, I think what I am trying to say is that any leader is NOT God (or whoever your spiritual leader is). If they think they are.. it will catch to them. In my position spiritually God has… Read more »

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 12, 2013 11:40 pm
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

Oh crap.. let me state “I want to believe it”.. I didn’t live there so I don’t know. I would like to hope that people get shown the way if you know what I mean! xo!!

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 13, 2013 9:30 am
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

Yah, I’m the one that found it. I’d like it to be true too, but it all seems a little too made up. But like Andromeda I also think that all things are ultimately forgiven. Everything is really in divine order, and some of us simply enjoy the drama of it all.
We are all divine light no matter what role we played.

doubleliblottascorp
doubleliblottascorp
April 13, 2013 12:26 am
Reply to  Anonymous

If only someone had given it to her round about 1984….

calypso scorp
calypso scorp
April 13, 2013 9:05 am

🙂

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 13, 2013 1:20 pm

Lol 😀

Fire and Ice
Fire and Ice
April 12, 2013 3:25 pm

It has been many years since I have commented on this blog. I think about 5 years, if I remember correctly. However, as the partner of Min the merciless, let me say, that I often retreat in the face of battle. Too many past lifetimes as a soldier, I think. Thank God for her throwing of pots and pans. Something, that I need to learn again.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 9:45 pm
Reply to  Fire and Ice

🙂 Thank you for stepping in. Min is great, and you seem to be lovely yourself.

Come and comment more. I do remember your handle from waaay back. 🙂

emmaru
emmaru
April 12, 2013 11:26 am

In order for that massive transformation to take place in Britain it needed a person with a big PLUTO . With this zap zone coming up (?) will we have a big PLUTO PERSON emerge to be the do’er ? Somehow it looks as if it is all going to be squeezed into a small time frame.
Any suggestions on the possible pluto/uranus/saturn peeps ?

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 12, 2013 2:24 pm
Reply to  emmaru

Johnny Rotten?

doubleliblottascorp
doubleliblottascorp
April 12, 2013 5:17 pm

Funny…….or Eddie Izzard who wants to stand for Mayor of London.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 1:46 am

MENTAL

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 12, 2013 12:26 am

Out of respect for Mystic this is my final post regarding this political arena. I apologize to ANYONE who thought I was “taking over Mystic’s blog”. Sun in Virgo, Libra Rising, Moon in Leo I am.. so I would like to say I am OVERLY protective of people who are my family, close friends and any business who I have found to provide me with the best service (Mystic is one of them). It is my nature to speak out about unfairness to others.. I do it everywhere. I don’t care what people think of me..people who have provided me… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 7:56 am
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

Thank Ellie! And I know I should leave this alone, but it was interesting to read the customer bit. I guess that the thing is that there are few people on here who would regard themselves as customers. To think of a bunch of people, or oneself as a customer is to take things into quite a different arena, and the desire to resolve conflict is in line with Whimsey’s observation about how Americans avoid debate and try to smooth things over. – which I found very interesting by the way – thanks!

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 12, 2013 11:28 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Hello Anon.. I don’t want to take your comment towards me incorrectly so I am just going to add a little bit more. In regard to running my own business (I don’t run one now.. I was hoping to and was trained by great mentors) I would not sweep things under the rug. I would be pretty direct with someone (customer) who is #1 putting down my business publiclly and #2 putting down members of my staff and how they perform under my company name publically. I would make sure that a discussion was had to try and clear the… Read more »

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 12, 2013 2:13 pm
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

Come on, Virgo Ellie. Don’t go. Stay and argue your point, and see that we can all have different points of view but (hopefully) respect others. You don’t have to be nice to people all the time, you just have to be you. You don’t have to agree with people, just state your point and listen to theirs. In this way, with a bit of luck and a following wind, we can all add to the collective knowledge of human nature. I really like the way you defend your friends and family. I do. (Cancer ASc, Cancer Sun, Moon/Mars in… Read more »

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 12, 2013 11:18 pm

Thanks for your support Min.. I also had to comment on the Bible verse “A slave shall obey his master”.. Thank you for that because I was in the martial arts for 10 years that change my fuq’n life. Til this day I respect those I consider Masters. God (#1) but there are others in my lifetime who I respect. So, just saying, that I sometimes consider myself a slave to the experiences that I consider God Blessed and bringing me to a new level of understanding!!

xo!!

Seabird
Seabird
April 12, 2013 7:36 pm
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

I really respect you for still being here, and I a one of the people who bristles at your comments. But what I sense is a person who wans to know more about the world around them, and who is trying to engage with that world by putting forward their views, unaware of how others see them. I think you are really brave, and I wanted to amend my comments above to point out that it is your comments and not yourself I have an issue with. This is a great blog and there are a lot of amazing people… Read more »

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 12, 2013 11:20 pm
Reply to  Seabird

Love that Seabird “but don’t try to censor the thoughts or the methods of others”.. the Virgo in me wants everyone to be like me.. a pain in the arse.. LOL!! xo!!

Fi
Fi
April 13, 2013 4:16 am
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

lol, Ellie. That is a very loveble thing to say: wry, honest, humble and self-accepting (something that Aussies really warm to and respect) It also resonates so much with me, as I have a big wallop in Virgo in my chart. I don’t like really nasty posts either, and try not to do that, but I can get uber critical when someone tweaks MY Virgo bug-bear issues: lack of evidence and reasoning given in support of strong beliefs or opinions. I just KNOW that I am often a boring pendantic long-winded pain in the ass on that score, lol. But… Read more »

calypso scorp
calypso scorp
April 13, 2013 8:38 am
Reply to  Fi

Thanks Min, Seabird & Fi for leading the reconciliation so well. I have Pluto in Virgo, so that might explain my frustration with unsupported comments but Ellie the main point I wanted to make to you was ore about your deflection of critical comments with shallow counter-accusations. Sometimes when people criticise us it is about us. They highlight something that we need to take on/change, or that it would be helpful for us to take on. To see it as an opportunity to grow is the most productive thing. Of course each instance needs to be assessed in it’s own… Read more »

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 13, 2013 10:35 am
Reply to  calypso scorp

Hi CC.. Understood.. of course I evaluated my response to some but honestly when it gets to using my personal “stuff” posted here as a reason to degrade someone I find that wrong. I have never tried to put anyone down using personal information from a post to get them to shut up. I started to shut up when I realized some people were providing similar posts about MT and they weren’t personally degrading others. That is where I find respect. They stay focused with the topic and provide enough “facts” to support their opinions. That is why I think… Read more »

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 11, 2013 8:26 pm

But actually I just wanted to comment on Mrs Thatcher.

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 11, 2013 8:58 pm

Hey Min.. I don’t know if you have post degrading comments to someone here but IMO.. I think Mystic enjoys when we interact between us all with friendly comments, details and/or facts. But when it comes to individuals trying to degrade a commenter personally to try and make them feel bad about themselves (even using posts from previous blogs on personal issues) that is when this site gets ugly. Keep it clean people. Stop the personal degrading, condescending comments to those who would like to comment on the opposite side of the spectrum with their opinions, comments, details and/or facts.… Read more »

prowlncrab
prowlncrab
April 11, 2013 9:17 pm
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

Virgo Ellie, amongst many other things, you clearly don’t seems to have a grasp of what debating actually is. So in order to be helpful here is an excerpt from Wiki: “A debate, simply put, is like a game, where two or more speakers present their arguments intent on persuading each other. It is also, a contest, but rather an exciting one when both parties try to oppose the other party’s conclusion.” I read some of the claims of being personally denegrated on this post, but all I saw where legitimate challanges to other people’s ideas – which some people… Read more »

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 12, 2013 12:13 am
Reply to  prowlncrab

Ok. That does make sense to me. I will leave it alone now though!

whimsy
whimsy
April 11, 2013 11:06 pm
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

I don’t see anything wrong with Min’s comments, Elle. I think you’ve misread her tone.

Mystic’s invited us to extend this topic of Thatcher’s legacy to include, ha, basically ALL OF WESTERN HISTORY. Particularly the themes of domination vis a vis religion and (later) corporatism.

Thatcher and her policies didn’t just spring fully formed from the head of ’70’s Britain. Her legacy is a logical conclusion to two thousand years of distorted thought about the value and purpose of humans.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 11:49 pm
Reply to  whimsy

Elle, I also encourage you to check out videos of British and Aussie debate, particularly Parliamentary debate. 😉 In debate, we Americans are too concerned with pleasant and polite facades, at the expense of substantive and vigorous discussion. This way we can always accuse our opposition of meanness and unfairness if they ever approach us with a blunt, hard question. It’s an outgrowth of a pallid church culture that demands “niceness” as proof of sanctification. Why do we ever have to preface a sincere statement with “I don’t mean to be rude, but…”? More importantly, Americans are afraid of debate… Read more »

whimsy
whimsy
April 11, 2013 11:50 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

‘Twas me, whimsy

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 12:00 am
Reply to  whimsy

I don’t mean to be rude but you are remarkably self-aware for an american…

jokes – we still do them round here… yes?

whimsy
whimsy
April 12, 2013 12:22 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Yes. 🙂 Yes for jokes.

And, thanks. I try.

calypso scorp
calypso scorp
April 12, 2013 12:45 pm
Reply to  whimsy

good one Whimsy 🙂

Seabird
Seabird
April 12, 2013 7:23 pm
Reply to  whimsy

Exhibit One – A Self-Aware American. I find them on this blog. Thankyou Whimsy, and I love the astrological take. America as a Kataka! Australia is a Sagg – I think we really have in the past allowed a lot of different people to air their ideas without fear of reprisal. But the current political climate is very un-Saggitarian, and maybe that’s why we feel collectively like the party’s over thisaway. Serious debate is, or was, part of our political scene. I wish it was part of America’s as well. It would make a world of difference to…the world, if… Read more »

The Crazy Crone
The Crazy Crone
April 12, 2013 4:33 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Whimsy – you raise some really interesting points about Americans’ response to vigorous debate and it explains reactions which have always puzzled me. Whenever I’ve been critical of US government policies (of whatever political persuasion), so many responses have been emotional rather than logical So thanks for your insights into the American psyche, very, very useful and informative.

Fi
Fi
April 12, 2013 10:33 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Awesome, whimsy! So true, and fits with other non-astrologically informed analyses of why so many US people champion conservative polticians when in fact the policies such politicans are offering would hurt their said voters interests. (Free markets, for a start, which have seen US jobs for so many states decline to nothing – and if the US wasn’t totally hypocritical about free markets, subsidising its agricultural producers, while wanting others countries not to do the same, so many more in grain belt states would be hurting). In part, I think the problem is that the US got independence fighting a… Read more »

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 12, 2013 12:12 am
Reply to  whimsy

Sorry Whimsy..I didn’t think so either. My comment honestly was based on the comment above. Didn’t think it appropriate to post my response there since there was more helpful details. So I posted here. I don’t see anything wrong with this one.

whimsy
whimsy
April 12, 2013 12:21 am
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

Cool.

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 12, 2013 2:00 pm
Reply to  whimsy

Mmm. Thanks whimsey – I like your last paragraph.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 11:18 pm
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

Virgo Ellie, nobody is interested in your opinions or perspective from the US. We’ve heard it. Okaaay! And since when have you become the spokesperson for Mystic?A lot of us have been here for over a decade and wouldn’t dream of being so arrogant. You turn up yesterday and act like you’re running the joint. Just shut up already!

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 12:00 am
Reply to  Mystic

sorry Mystic!

pi
pi
April 12, 2013 12:45 am
Reply to  Mystic

I really wish I had read the comments on that joan rivers post. it sounds AWESOME. *manic giggle*

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 12:58 am
Reply to  pi

😆

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 1:09 am
Reply to  pi

I dunno mate that was UGLY.

Don’t mention the war…

calypso scorp
calypso scorp
April 12, 2013 3:32 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Joan Rivers is a bitch

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 4:37 pm
Reply to  Mystic

it was a joke! not in the least bit schizz x

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 4:47 pm
Reply to  Mystic
calypso scorp
calypso scorp
April 12, 2013 6:01 pm
Reply to  Mystic

yeah, it was a joke….but did you see her talking about Adele recently?

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 12, 2013 1:57 pm
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

Hi Virgo Ellie, It is perfectly possible to disagree with somebody else’s thoughts without putting them down. In fact, it is a sign that someone has engaged with you and is thinking that you are interesting enough to comment upon! I haven’t disparaged anyone. I notice that you have given me a kiss at the end of your comment – thank you. You are, as has been said before, a bit of a sweetie. But you don’t have to give me a kiss if you disagree with me. I’ll respect your viewpoint anyway, whether you agree with me or not.… Read more »

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 11, 2013 8:22 pm

Did you want us to stop talking about Margaret Thatcher, Mystic? It’s difficult to guage tone with email. If you would like us to stop talking about her, just ask. Otherwise I will presume that you are doing a Mata Hari and talking in code. However. On the subject of the weird religious names of slave ships: this opens a can of worms. Topics: – How religion has been used to validate slavery, racism, patriarchy, sexism. vs – How religion has helped many people – point of discussion. – Capitalism and Slavery – Capitalism, Feudalism and slavery – Class, Trade… Read more »

prowlncrab
prowlncrab
April 11, 2013 9:05 pm

“How religion has been used to validate slavery, racism, patriarchy, sexism vs how religion has helped many people – point of discussion.” Well … since you asked … It depends upon which religion you are talking about. Most indigenous religions act as a means of explaining a. why people are here b. carries, disseminates and protects the moral underpinnings of a particular culture in order to produce social cohesion. If you are talking about Western Christianity, originally Europe was filled with multiple indigenous cults and regional belief systems that were eventually consumed by successive occupations particularly the Roman Empire which… Read more »

pi
pi
April 12, 2013 12:41 am
Reply to  prowlncrab

I believe the Thirty Years’ War and certain treaties (Treaty of Westphalia and others) ~mid-1500s also brought about strong limits to the powers of the Church across Europe, which were at the time (as you mentioned) vast and untrammelled.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 12:56 am
Reply to  pi

re the church in that era it is my understanding that the nobility were clamping down on the churches – I’m referring to specifically to France – because they were exploiting the fact they were exempt from taxes and were able to charge their congregations to run businesses on the grounds of church lands. The cathedrals were extending the length of the traditional seasonal fairs and festivities when people would gather and were allowing the purveyors of beer and other alcohol and various wares made by the members of the guilds to set up shop all year round. Anything that… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 1:02 am
Reply to  Anonymous

like malls

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 12, 2013 1:42 pm
Reply to  prowlncrab

Wow, thanks Prowlin’. and Ha ! to Whimsey! You’ve really got me thinking.. Prowlin- thanks. I’ve got a few questions and comments – Do you think that there were only patriarchal religions around 2000 years’ ago? If not (and I think not), why haven’t we heard more about the matrifocal indigenous religions of, say, the Navajo or Celts, or the indigenous Goddesses of the area i.e. Israel. Why are the old testament and new testament so completely different in their understanding of god? I know that the Nicene gathering looked at Marcius’ (?spelling) proposition that there were actually two gods,… Read more »

whimsy
whimsy
April 11, 2013 10:51 pm

This is a brilliant list, Min. We could discuss until someone shuts down the internet. 😉

Prowlin’s lead the charge, I see.

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 12, 2013 1:46 pm
Reply to  whimsy

Ah Whimsy! Yes, let’s shut down the internet. Prowlin is doing a good job. Slavery and the Bible is a hornet’s net of interest.

hiddendragonqueen
hiddendragonqueen
April 11, 2013 6:59 am

what an amazing post. thank you to all you badass impassioned warrior peeps- gawd i love y’all!!

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 1:02 am

I find Maggie’s retro lilith in detriment in cancer in the 8th interesting. And the jupiter in capricorn in the 2nd house. Interesting chart. I wonder what myers brigg she was.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 1:06 am
Reply to  Anonymous

also astro theme says she was a master number numerologically – 22. Considering her achievements objectively, she was working her own flavour of awesome to the nth degree. Not my kind of awesome, but awesome nonetheless.

The Crazy Crone
The Crazy Crone
April 10, 2013 11:34 pm

Really, why would anyone not expect things to go ballistic when Pluto is involved? I well remember similar eruptions in another long-lasting post when I was still living in Australia about Pluto which I’m not going to name as I went into major trolling mode on that one. But you do have to say, putting things into perspective, that Pluto can certainly fire us all up. Dear old Pluto :p

Mister Miu
Mister Miu
April 10, 2013 8:39 pm

Just 3 points: 1. Following from the social consequences left in the legacy of Baroness Thatcher, it is interesting to note that in her later years, she was in the throes of Alzheimer’s. From a mystical/energetic point of view – people who develop Alzheimer’s are served this path, because their spirit needs to have insight into the dissociative suffering/disorder of the collective consciousness. For among the central features of Alzheimer’s are the strangeness of its thought patterns and the sudden changeability of the individuals focus. Alzheimer’s serves the purpose of dismantling the rational element of functioning in order that the… Read more »

Mister Miu
Mister Miu
April 10, 2013 8:44 pm
Reply to  Mister Miu

yes, that is all folks! Adieu.

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 10, 2013 8:49 pm
Reply to  Mister Miu

LOL!! Perfect! Thanks for that.. seriously! I do believe what you say for the last point! xo!!

Fi
Fi
April 12, 2013 9:40 pm
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

M. Miu, I think the Alzheimers connection is fascinating. Re the innocence bit, though, there is possibly a twin, and equally valid explanation. If we are not just puppets of the universe, and have any subconscious choice in our paths – be it a choice driven by a mind in touch with its higher self, or not – it could also in part represent not just the universe (in league with our subconcious selves) making us face the non-rational and our own vulnerability, but also an unconscious retreat from memories and the new insight (and fear of having been wrong)… Read more »

Seabird
Seabird
April 10, 2013 10:44 pm
Reply to  Mister Miu

That’s interesting, because Reagan suffered from Alzheimer’s acutely as well. Apparently he spent his last days taking leaves out of his swimming pool, and Nancy told the Gardner to keep throwing them in there so that he felt he had something meaningful to do. I don’t believe in hell per se because I believe we pay for our actions in this life, either by causing pain and suffering to ourselves or to others, or in the legacy we leave our children and families. We are already judged by our actions, heaven and hell are just constructs for people who wish… Read more »

Mister Miu
Mister Miu
April 10, 2013 11:31 pm
Reply to  Seabird

Seabird: This is great – it illustrates the point beautifully. Also, you are correct in drawing parallels with Mr. Reagan – after all, as you can see from this site, many people have memories of his legacy and his alliance with Baroness Thatcher. It could also be said that these political leaders are, oftentimes, puppet faces for other machinations that are at work. The personal wrangling within their own government administrations would take a toll on individuals who appear to be robust on the outside, but in truth are empty inside. (see above). Hence, the development of Alzheimer’s etc. The… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 1:53 am
Reply to  Mister Miu

Indeed. I’ve been thinking about the possible karmic connections between MT and QE1.

From a credible source, I’ve recently been told that John Dee created a spiritual creature, an aggregor, to protect QE1. On the physical plane, this creature manifested as the first join-stock company, the first corporation — The East India Co. Dee knew his work (any magic does) might have unintended negative consequences. It did.

A
A
April 11, 2013 10:02 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Please elucidate on your thoughts on these connections?! I am not quite getting it, thank you. Fascinating. Is it quite common that people with great brains end up with alzheimers? It seems a natural balance, as you suggest, that the spirit needs to emerge after the brain has caged it’s needs. It doesn’t have to happen in this lifetime but it can? I guess there is personal quality to have these things are balanced karmically and perhaps the chakras can also get unbalanced, clogged in unused areas. From a little personal & general observation I see often great people are… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 8:56 pm
Reply to  A

Hmmm, interesting A, I very much agree with you. I wonder if it also has something to do with the more powerful people become in terms of worldly power, the more the Egoic Body literally takes over the mind. And this of course results in an interest in power for its own sake and a need to constantly judge others. ie. I’m better than / less than; I will exert my power over you / or give my power away to you. And the spirit is separate to the ego, and separate to the mind. So there is nothing else… Read more »

Andromeda
Andromeda
April 12, 2013 6:50 am
Reply to  Anonymous

The question becomes when there are so many interested spirits at work, who is ruling the roost. What happens when the mental abilities evaporate? Often people with mental illness are vehicles for disembodied energies, their higher self unable to activate their egoic mind which is quivering in a tiny corner of their aura.

Andromeda
Andromeda
April 12, 2013 7:14 am
Reply to  A

Pardon my ignorance but MT and QE1 to John Dee means? And RE the aggregor protecting QE1 manifesting as the East India Co. – what was Dee’s original intention versus the unintended negative activity? Thank you! I have more questions about aggregors and organisations. Remember I think here that someone mentioned the British began concentration camps in SA, plus the concentration camps of the Nazi’s did the bulk of their killings on days of occult ritual sacrifice. So I think the energy created by these sacrifices invite down certain energy frequencies that interact with the power mongerers. The aggregor being… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 7:37 am
Reply to  Andromeda

I’m just swirling this idea around in my head. Don’t have a specific theory yet regarding Thatcher and Queen Elizabeth I — apart from the obviousness of their gender and the challenge of leading a nation as women. If you’re looking for more re Dee’s project, try this book: Liber 118 U.S. 394: The Battle Of Oakland. I have not read it but will soon. It’s a fictionalization (cough cough) of the current news. (The author is interesting. Much more than his public bio.) You might investigate “Corporate Metabolism” too. If I remember correctly from my own writing (ha!), the… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 7:38 am
Reply to  Anonymous

🙂 from whimsy

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 7:46 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Oh. Dee’s intention was to protect the reign of Elizabeth, and by extension, bar Roman Catholic interference with England. Because of this, I suspect he felt he was doing The Right Thing against the ungodly papists. 😉

He created something, the only thing he could imagine I suppose, capable of rivaling the power, wealth and influence of Rome.

The unintended consequences of unchecked corporate-style capitalism is self evident today. The US has given personhood status to the corporate body, which is a funny way of unmasking the truth. Ha! Just realised that…

whimsy
whimsy
April 12, 2013 7:56 am
Reply to  Anonymous

You may also be interested in the current exhibition in Texas by Jesse Bransford. I know someoneworking with this MOST interesting piece.

Enjoy!

whimsy
whimsy
April 12, 2013 7:59 am
Reply to  whimsy

The pieceyou want to see right now is called “TheFourth Pyramid”

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 10:06 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

That’s great!
Thank you Whimsy, good work here!!
Love the connection you make in the last sentence.. 😉

Mister Miu
Mister Miu
April 12, 2013 1:16 am
Reply to  Anonymous

The East India Co. (British) was one of the more notable elite controlled trading companies. People connected to the Br. East India Co. were responsible for the creation of the Fabian Society. These trading companies tie in with the occult world’s leadership and the formation of drug cartels during the age of discovery. In 1815 they began to operate an opium smuggling operation. The British elite got involved in shipping opium. The elite families got monopolies on the opium trade. The British empire’s military might and political clout was used to force China to allow the opium trade. When occult… Read more »

whimsy
whimsy
April 12, 2013 1:45 am
Reply to  Mister Miu

Thank you. I’m glad you returned and expanded on this story. I am fascinated (but not surprised) at the underlying energetic structures that are being exposed in this era.

And I take your encouragement to heart. These is not hopeful yearnings for frothy New Age Nirvana, but a serious statement about a future we are creating now.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 1:53 am
Reply to  Mister Miu

I like your easily digestible take on quantum theory.

Andromeda
Andromeda
April 12, 2013 10:07 pm
Reply to  Mister Miu

Thank Mr.M, that is really interesting. I am taking it all in!

gemyogi
gemyogi
April 11, 2013 9:50 am
Reply to  Seabird

Thanks Seabird. That is lovely and so true.

curiouser and curiouser crab
curiouser and curiouser crab
April 10, 2013 9:14 pm
Reply to  Mystic

oops mystc, had to smile at the slip: ‘ people are perfectly entitled to express their opinion provided it does degenerate into personal abuse.’ LOL

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 10, 2013 10:41 pm
Reply to  Mystic

haha I read that as she lost me at patchouli

Tropic of Scorp
Tropic of Scorp
April 11, 2013 12:10 am
Reply to  Mystic

well, I have enjoyed this post immensely !!! Most interesting and awesome in a long while.

It’s great to have a space to share opinions with like-minded souls, as mainstream media has typically been biased and infuriating.

So thanks Mystic, for allowing us to voice our thoughts. 🙂

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 8:07 am

Yes hasn’t it? That’s what happens when Murdoch owns all the rags and insists on re-writing history.

The Guardian has thousands of comments by people on some of their articles on her. One Belgium guy said that during the 80s people there collected food / clothes / toys for the miners as they had nothing and were starving. When the container got to England Maggie had the police destroy it all.

SourPatch
SourPatch
April 11, 2013 1:44 pm
Reply to  Mystic

Personally I thank you for this post. It’s been very informative to find out how she’s affected other people besides my own…,particularly those within her own borders

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 8:37 pm
Reply to  SourPatch

It’s a pleasure!
Yes she repressed her own people as well. Basically anyone poor, she stood on in order to make the rich richer. She destroyed industry in Britain so that they could become a nation founded on bankers and finance. … !

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 8:41 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Devil’s advocate.. but is it possible without her cruel measures Britain would have been down the economic drain, an English speaking Albania of sorts by now?

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 9:18 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Yes point taken. You may well be right. It’s hard to say, isn’t it? I know that many see that her tough love was what the country desperately needed, and that it in fact saved them. But to me the English have always seemed resourceful and so incredibly, for want of a better word, ‘cultured’, that it is hard to imagine them having slipped so far down the drain that they would have become a total non-entity as you suggest. But perhaps that is naive of me. It’s just that sometimes the spectre of failed nation states and the fear… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 12, 2013 10:03 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

I think it is very hard to see the full picture, with one stroke of a pen many may go hungry or have to relocate, even die. But there then there are the long term problems that if not met perhaps more suffering is the result.
I don’t know, but being a leader seems really darned if you do darned if you don’t.
I don’t like Thatcher, but I am willing to bet there are decisions that were going to look bad no matter which way they went.

Scorpcat
Scorpcat
April 10, 2013 5:46 pm

Thanks Min, I will, I’m on here to learn

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 10, 2013 6:15 pm
Reply to  Scorpcat

Scorp – she polarised people, she’s doing it still. Scorpio rising so Pluto/Mars was the chart ruler. Saturn in Scorpio in the first house. Pluto square sun&mars and opposite Jupiter. Have a look at the Oxford Astrologer’s recent post for her. You can look up all of these aspects and planets in signs by googling. Oxford Astrologer says it as if a long hard winter has finally broken, and now the rain has come.. make of that what you will. A lot of people in the UK feel that Mrs Thatcher ruined their families, community and ultimately the country (including… Read more »

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 10, 2013 6:19 pm

Sorry – speaking for myself, not others here.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 10, 2013 6:29 pm

Thanks 🙂

Scorpcat
Scorpcat
April 10, 2013 6:38 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Sorry that was me, thank you

GemCrab
GemCrab
April 10, 2013 8:20 pm

I loved the Oxford Astrologer’s post. It, as well as Mystic’s take, was very insightful.

Scorpcat
Scorpcat
April 10, 2013 5:45 pm

And here we go again with the personal attacks, I thought Mystics site was above this

prowlncrab
prowlncrab
April 10, 2013 5:52 pm
Reply to  Scorpcat

Oh well for god sakes what is wrong with you? Nobody is forcing you to read anything – there are plenty of other less impassioned threads on the go that you can read instead of this one.

I personally find it really offensive that people like you waft into the middle of a conversation that others obviously feel quite strongly about and then try to muzzle the discussion with your passive aggressive whinging because it’s all about your and your stifling sensitivities.

Scorpcat
Scorpcat
April 10, 2013 5:58 pm
Reply to  prowlncrab

And I am just as entitled to my opinion. And as for muzzling? It’s past 200 posts, I’m just saying what I think, back off!

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 10, 2013 6:15 pm
Reply to  Scorpcat

I totally agree prowlncrab. This site posts something interesting and topical about a woman who was incredibly divisive (as in supported Pinochet, was pro apartheid and anti Mandela, was pro Pol Pot and supported him in the UN for decades, and on and on and on) all the flakes waft on about not wanting to read negative comments and how terrible people’s comments are. Wake up!!! We can’t all walk through life only concerned about whether some new guy’s astro is compatible with yours. Unbelievable. I don’t even really see any so-called ‘personal attacks’. Just an irritation that some people… Read more »

Scorpcat
Scorpcat
April 10, 2013 6:30 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

You know nothing about me, how dare you make those assumptions

andromeda
andromeda
April 10, 2013 9:03 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Scorpcat, you are just as valuable here as anyone else. It’s just that we can’t all be the same or feel the same. A lot of us feel very strongly about this topic for lots of different reasons.
Let others talk about their feelings re this person bad or good – and WHY! You don’t have to engage if it disturbs you, but if you are interested in debate I bet there are people here online willing to talk about the pro’s and con’s with interest.

curiouser and curiouser crab
curiouser and curiouser crab
April 10, 2013 9:11 pm
Reply to  prowlncrab

hear, hear prowlin. well said.

Scorpcat
Scorpcat
April 10, 2013 9:52 pm

Yes well said, you just lost Mystic a subscriber.

doubleliblottascorp
doubleliblottascorp
April 10, 2013 10:04 pm
Reply to  Scorpcat

Just being very Libran for a moment and changing the subject, but does MT have a heavily congested via combusta?

prowlncrab
prowlncrab
April 10, 2013 10:45 pm
Reply to  Scorpcat

oh grow the fuck up.

doubleliblottascorp
doubleliblottascorp
April 11, 2013 7:26 pm
Reply to  prowlncrab

I actually mean’t that as a serious question….

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 7:36 pm

she’s not talking to you she’s talking to the person the line on the left hand side links to – it is a broken line because she commented after you and was responding to the same person you attached your comment to. And yes, sun mercury and saturn are between 15° Libra and Scorpio. I was also interested in the placement of lilith in detriment in cancer in the 8th which is ruled by mars and pluto, while scorpio is her ascendant with saturn there – so it’s quite a toxic and hard-line manifesting of the energy to do with… Read more »

doubleliblottascorp
doubleliblottascorp
April 11, 2013 7:50 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Brilliant…..thanks for that interpretation. I’m an astro novice but
am genuinely interested in what produced such a steely unyielding character who ENJOYED being hated.

prowlncrab
prowlncrab
April 11, 2013 9:20 pm

yes was not directed at you, but sniffy pants above you 😉

doubleliblottascorp
doubleliblottascorp
April 11, 2013 10:05 pm
Reply to  prowlncrab

Thanks PinC….always like your comments…shootingfrom the hip.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 11:53 pm

re the enjoying being hated, your comment made me think – her ascendant is in the middle of the fiery road – sometimes I find it’s the lateral or quirky aspects of a person who has a distinct natal chart that give the depth necessary to interpret the nuances of of their way of expressing the chart. Your pointing out via combusta being an intrinsic part of Thatcher’s persona seems particularly poignant. So thumbs up to the novice.

doubleliblottascorp
doubleliblottascorp
April 11, 2013 8:46 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Apologies…didn’t get the linking system , thanks for explaining.

The Crazy Crone
The Crazy Crone
April 10, 2013 11:36 pm
Reply to  prowlncrab

I don’t know about anyone else, but I do enjoy your ascerbic comments, prowlncrab, they have me howling with laughter sometimes.

Tropic of Scorp
Tropic of Scorp
April 10, 2013 11:46 pm

you’re not the only one. 🙂

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 10, 2013 5:45 pm

Scorpcat – have another look at Margaret Thatcher’s chart. Then look at the descriptions and feelings of how the people directly living under her influence experienced it. It’s visceral, and emotional, but, if you want to live up to your Scorpy name and nature, dig and you’ll learn about astrology and how it affects living, breathing human beings and nations. This woman wasn’t a simple Libran, nor a Libra Sun/Leo Moon, nor a 12th house sun. It’s all there if you want to find it, described by Mystic if you want to look up the ruling planets and squares –… Read more »

prowlncrab
prowlncrab
April 10, 2013 5:39 pm

Mystic, you know I love you but the retarded comments on this blog are depressing. I subscribe to read interesting commentary about the world I live in and how it relates to astrology – not whiney complaining like this.

Oh and whilst I’m at it let’s get rid of all the posts that I don’t like because hey this is MY personal reading space and everything should be geared around my interests and what I consider acceptable.

andromeda
andromeda
April 10, 2013 9:06 pm
Reply to  prowlncrab

Totes

Seabird
Seabird
April 10, 2013 10:35 pm
Reply to  andromeda

Some of us really love a good political dissection and we are overjoyed to be having one here. You could come back another day if you are unhappy, and we can go back to discussing the dick size of various star signs (which I enjoy as well)

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 10, 2013 10:39 pm
Reply to  Seabird

I don’t think you get it.. prowln is being sarcastic?

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 10, 2013 11:30 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

No, I do get it, I know Prowln well enough to know exacrly what she means. (plus shes a fairly plain speaker!) that should’ve been directed to the original poster, whom Prowln was quoting. My reply should belong to the thread above.

Scorpcat
Scorpcat
April 10, 2013 5:27 pm

Mystic, you know I love you but the hateful comments on this blog are depressing. I subscribe to learn about astrology not to read this.

pegasus
pegasus
April 10, 2013 11:03 am

VIRGO ELLIE, you are a true sweetie, really, & i’m sorry for being facetious which is an evil trait of mine. I am from the original Mousers era & Annette was not my fave but did give me my love of rodents which i have to this day 🙂 Many of my friends from the 70’s were contentious objectors to the Vietnam War, some had to hide from conscription. That war also resulted in heroin being introduced to mainstream population, devastating, so no, the statement t-shirt is loooong gone. Politics is not my area of interest, but realise due to… Read more »

gemyogi
gemyogi
April 10, 2013 7:49 am

Can we agree to disagree without insulting each other?

whimsy
whimsy
April 10, 2013 10:27 am
Reply to  gemyogi

Note the astro. It’s not just fancy cocktail conversation. It’s serious business.

So I have my doubts about abundant civility. But it could happen.

Maybe.

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 10, 2013 6:00 pm
Reply to  whimsy

Yup, Thatcher continues to polarise even after death. I don’t agree we are insulting each other either. Disagreeing with another person’s opinion is not insulting (although it might feel like it).

Seabird
Seabird
April 10, 2013 10:33 pm

I’m not insulting anyone. But I also won’t hold my tongue with people whom I think are so uninformed that is practically amounts to stupidity. I can argue with a good argument. Stupidity I simply will call out.

Kate
Kate
April 10, 2013 10:41 pm
Reply to  Seabird

“MEN ARE DISTURBED NOT BY THINGS THAT HAPPEN
BUT BY THEIR OPINION OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPEN”
Epictetus

aqua lion
aqua lion
April 10, 2013 5:48 am

She still gets praise for the Falklands War where Argentina “invaded” the islands. What is not mentioned is that shortly before that happened, Britain expanded the territorial waters of the islands to (don’t remember, this is off shonky memory here) but many hundreds of kilometres – ie. much bigger than the land area of the islands themselves. Thus gaining Britain a very large fishing area and I believe also the potential for mining some oil. now if that ain’t expansionism, I don’t know what is. Argentina eventually reacted with the Falklands invasion. But have any of you ever heard the… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 10, 2013 2:53 am

Anonymous and Virgo Ellie – those commenting here adversely on Thatcher aren’t “an embarrassment to Mystic”, they are being absolutely honest and good on them. I find the idea that one should suddenly sanctify someone who’s dead complete hypocrisy when in their life they committed evil, wicked acts which Thatcher did – destroying communities, lives, families, and all for greed and her own ambition. Nor can I say anything good about someone who started a war to boost her poll ratings and ordered the sinking of the Belgrano with the loss of hundreds of young lives when the battleship in… Read more »

The Crazy Crone
The Crazy Crone
April 10, 2013 2:55 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Oops, forgot to post name, The Crazy Crone, formerly Aphrodite Rising. I don’t post anonymously, quite happy to associate my name with the above post about Thatcher and to say I did a happy dance when I heard of her death. Next stop Dick Cheney.

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 10, 2013 3:13 am

I agree with you Crazy Crone.. honestly I see your point on your first comment. What I disagree with are the direct attacks towards someonewho is compassionate about others and how they feel about their life and use astrology to understand it better and post an opinion. Then they try and belittle that person because of their opinion. There are people here that will attack you to try and make you feel bad (a.k.a. bullying) which is a sign of insecurity. It could be a bad life situation and I understand that but not here at the expense of Mystic.… Read more »

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 10, 2013 3:14 am
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

PS: I think O-Blame-Us is the worst US president ever but I would never wish him dead… just get out of that seat. He is ruining lives like I am learning about Thatcher.

whimsy
whimsy
April 10, 2013 5:02 am
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

What’s your evidence for that, VE? Really?

Are you talking about the lives ruined by the banking and mortgage crises? Surely not.

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 10, 2013 6:17 am
Reply to  whimsy

Nope.. my evidence is everyone living in hospitals. 🙁

Aquarium
Aquarium
April 10, 2013 8:22 am
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

who’s making and supporting the sugary,toxic muck found in supermarkets thats putting them there Ellie?

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 10, 2013 8:43 am
Reply to  Aquarium

The government..

Corporations without concience are a crime against humanity in the main Ellie. Conservative governments only really exist nowdays to protect them. Cute paternal jocular Presidents are a sick Plutonic dream from last century
Corporations without concience are a crime against humanity in the main Ellie. Conservative governments only really exist nowdays to protect them. Cute paternal jocular Presidents are a sick Plutonic dream from last century
April 10, 2013 9:48 am
Reply to  Aquarium

Corporations without concience are a crime against humanity in the main Ellie. Conservative governments only really exist nowdays to protect them.
Things are’a changing rather quickly these days tho,.. thank the lordy 🙂

whimsy
whimsy
April 10, 2013 10:30 am

Actually, I think you’ve got it backwards: governments exist at the pleasure of corporations. Even “liberal” governments are enthralled, sadly.

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 10, 2013 10:40 am

You are correct and so is Whimsy.. I work closely with FDA and the government needs corporations to keep the economy going. So if the product doesn’t have evidence of hurting people but it is selling the government wants it.

whimsy
whimsy
April 10, 2013 10:22 am
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

Who is “everyone”?
Who lives in hospitals?

Commenters with strong opinions about Thatcher have offered up specific policy and known history to support their feelings about her.

Can you point to specific instances and policy for your position? You’re offering generalizations and vague images. I’m sure anyone outside the US would be happy to know details, if you’ve got something substantial.

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 10, 2013 10:37 am
Reply to  whimsy

There are no reports or statistics .. the government will not allow it. If you pay attention everyone is being diagnosed with a supposed disease without concrete evidence. So people are panicking and take the treatment therapies and most of them are dying. I have been involved with doctor’s for over 35 years because of my own life threatening disease. Since 2009 I have been afraid of doctor’s. After my uncle died from chemo I noticed 2 things (1) doctor’s don’t know if you have the condition and (2) they don’t know if you will survive after their recommendations.. they… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 10, 2013 11:35 pm
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

I’m sorry you have to work closely with the FDA, an organization which, on the whole has become an agent for pharmacutical interests.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 10, 2013 11:36 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

That was me, whimsy.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 12:31 am
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

You won’t hear disagreement from me about the state of conventional medicine and the over-prescribing of drugs. I think this can be an area of mutual agreement between some liberal and conservative thinkers. So I’m more than aware of these problems. And I’m sure that you’ve drawn the conclusion that UniversalHealth Care = more Bad Medicine. But that’s not the point I was trying to make. The concrete examples I wanted were specific policies of the Obama Administration have implemented. Or legislation passed by Congress. People here have written about the Poll Tax and the Falkland Islands and Pinochet as… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 11, 2013 4:18 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

“Did your idols create your monster?” THANK YOU whoever you are

Andromeda
Andromeda
April 11, 2013 8:33 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Genius!!

The Crazy Crone
The Crazy Crone
April 10, 2013 4:51 pm
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

Virgo Ellie – I’m not commenting on other people and I don’t like the way some people have been attacked in this blog. And no, I’m not wishing death for Dick Cheney, don’t have to, at some point he’ll pop his clogs. But I’m not going to be hypocritical and say nothing, I will say the same as I said about Thatcher: good riddance to very bad rubbish. He was responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqis and hundreds of US soldiers for an illegal war to grab Iraq’s oil and all to boost the profits of the corporation… Read more »

andromeda
andromeda
April 10, 2013 9:09 pm

Halliburton danced on the dead, it’s a tradition with these people. Yes dance!.
Well said Lady Crone.

whimsy
whimsy
April 11, 2013 10:17 pm
Reply to  andromeda

‘Twas me up there, whimsy.

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 10, 2013 5:53 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Thank you, Crazy Crone. I was going to write something similar but saw you had already written it.

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 10, 2013 6:36 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Thank you, Crazy Crone.

The Green Witch
The Green Witch
April 10, 2013 2:19 am

Just have to add what an Icelandic girlfriend said when she visited me during the Thatcher years.
“She is a bad mother”
My friend was referring both to her as a mother of a nation and – I think – her overt preference for her son over her daughter.
So many of the ills we have in the UK were down to the ideology of greed fostered by Margaret Thatcher.

gemyogi
gemyogi
April 10, 2013 8:38 am

Interesting. I’ve seen her called a bossy nanny who spanked people before.

nonametoomuchair
nonametoomuchair
April 9, 2013 11:46 pm

How relevant re julia gillard misogyny, it still goes on regardless of the ceilings women break, like theres always another ceiling that cannot be broken.
I am surprised by some of the venom some people still express like they are stuck, blaming someone else, how long ago was it? god move on.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 10, 2013 4:48 pm

The PM is there because they are willing to tow the line of the big miners/pharma/blah blah war mongerers.
Female/Male or Black/White it makes no difference.
All these female PM’s and Black prezziedents are an allowed distraction from the real issues.

The Leo Socialite
The Leo Socialite
April 9, 2013 11:14 pm

yes chrysalis – the same thing happened in germany with the rise of facism, terrifying times but the art of the weimar republic exploded, this exhibition on it was fab http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/exhibitions/mad-square/

Chrysalis
Chrysalis
April 10, 2013 11:45 pm

Love this, LS, thanks for the link x

Chrysalis
Chrysalis
April 9, 2013 11:03 pm

I was a teenager living in the UK during some of the Thatcher years: the Falklands, Greenham Common, CND etc. I won’t go on about the politics except to say I grew up in the north of England so I know first hand how those policies destroyed people. But creatively it was an amazing time to be in England. Musicians, theatre, there was so much going on, real creative resistance. That part of it was exhilarating to be around.

Q
Q
April 9, 2013 11:18 pm
Reply to  Chrysalis

It was dirty, exhilarating, intense, high stakes ( spesh for this middle class Aussie) gritty, dark dark dark with gem like summer days with no heat in them but a longevity to die for….gigs at the Hammersmith, drugs galore, poverty i had never seen in white society, Aussie bands doing it hard in east end squats and Finsbury Park etc etc – and so very very real – thanks for the memories Iron Lady – unlike Annette F whom my mother denounced as ‘American sentimentality’ ( pax VE – bought up in anti-American household ie Canadian)

doubleliblottascorp
doubleliblottascorp
April 9, 2013 11:24 pm
Reply to  Chrysalis

V. true Chrysalis….theatre brilliant then, and agree totally with Q below…you’ve nailed it. Electric times…

aqua lion
aqua lion
April 10, 2013 6:09 am

One of the positive things about the Thatcher years is how many intelligent and interesting English people migrated to Australia (well, good for Australia) – quite a few of my uni professors

Pisces with Sagg Rising
Pisces with Sagg Rising
April 9, 2013 9:33 pm

Perhaps the best thing that happened during her time in government was that it inspired some great music. I’ve been reading over a few things about her death and I saw “The Iron Lady” recently and what has occurred to me is that the woman didn’t seem to have the slightest scintilla of compassion – as in it was completely absent from her personality. In my view, that is a character flaw that no amount of personality strengths can compensate for. She isn’t getting a state funeral apparently, which comes as a surprise as I thought that was kind of… Read more »

Quintile
Quintile
April 9, 2013 9:45 pm

Agreed re the music was thinking the same tonight – hugely creative millieu during the late 70’s through. Takes real backbone to make art/ music there – and some of that comes from the war tradition as per Terence Davis trilogy shows music as core to working class culture.

cosmic fleece
cosmic fleece
April 10, 2013 7:53 am
Reply to  Quintile

I’m with you re the Music Quintile, Matt Johnson from The The also produced a cracker of a tune with Heartland. Whenever there is great art from greed and power, these words come to mind.

“In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace – and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Man

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 10, 2013 12:43 pm
Reply to  cosmic fleece

Isn’t life a mysterious paradox.. If there weren’t bad or difficult things happening in the world, where would all the great art, poetry & music come from, the people uniting in protest, new political movements etc et al.. It seems we need all the opposites to create some kind of balanced world.. Or we need to get a little out of balance at certain times in life.. In order to make life more interesting.. Yes, Ok back to Shakespeare etc et al…

Darrell
Darrell
April 10, 2013 1:22 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:

They have their exits and their entrances;

And each in his or her time plays many parts..

Leading us all to the deep mystery of Life. And, the. “Fate & Destiny” & “the Soul”…. Of which astrology, numerology etc give us much insight into, but never into total or absolute knowing of all things…

‘As You Like It’ – Shakespeare.

cosmic fleece
cosmic fleece
April 10, 2013 8:00 am
Reply to  Quintile
Anonymous
Anonymous
April 9, 2013 8:27 pm

How sad to read all these comments, the woman just died! I never expected to read this on this site.

Virgo Ellie
Virgo Ellie
April 9, 2013 8:43 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

I know.. I am shocked. Most of the people commenting here are an embarrassment to Mystic. I am disappointed in myself for thinking I could get sound support from some of these bloggers. I have a few chosen mentors here that have been logical and supportive. 🙁

S
S
April 9, 2013 9:09 pm
Reply to  Virgo Ellie

Agree. I am going back to being a silent subscriber. Shame Crab-fest got hijacked.

doubleliblottascorp
doubleliblottascorp
April 9, 2013 8:54 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

As much as I loathed her and the culture of greed she encouraged, I find it terribly sad that she died alone, her children weren’t present and still haven’t appeared………press trying to keep that quiet.

Quintile
Quintile
April 9, 2013 9:31 pm

Agreed DLibScorp – of course on one level EVERYONE’S death is sad. Ellie and Anon and S this is doubtless one of the reasons M doesn’t’ post ‘political’ content – virtually never. It’s rare to have this level of heated response – maybe respect those who had/have direct experience of the times, let us vent a bit about it here – it’s an important discussion happening all over the world. But likewise I don’t think this is the place to slag people off for their politics – left or right – because it’s not a thread M cultivates. Her call.… Read more »

S
S
April 10, 2013 12:05 am
Reply to  Quintile

I have not been disrespectful to others on this issue. Maybe don’t take my one comment above to pigeon hole me, thank you. Tomorrow I am going to the second funeral in less than a m

S
S
April 10, 2013 12:11 am
Reply to  S

Second in less than a month. Grief is personal as are opinions. I respect that right in all human beings. I’ve supported MM’s work for many years, but only recently started to place my voice here. I respect your opinion but might suggest you read all our comments before casting the first stone Quintile.

andromeda
andromeda
April 10, 2013 9:15 pm
Reply to  S

Sorry for your loss S. I don’t know that this thread is a good place to be getting healing for your grief though. Good luck.

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 9, 2013 9:57 pm

Her children didn’t come because she was a total beeatch? Life’s very simple – what goes around comes around!

Anonymous
Anonymous
April 9, 2013 10:38 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Yep true that!! 🙂

Q
Q
April 9, 2013 11:11 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

I wasn’t going to say but…. Yes, obviously

SourPatch
SourPatch
April 9, 2013 11:13 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Well that’s so easy for you to say when your region wasn’t destroyed because of her and people like her. I won’t piss on her grave but I refuse to sugarcoat her horrible legacy.

doubleliblottascorp
doubleliblottascorp
April 9, 2013 11:20 pm
Reply to  SourPatch

Yep…we are still living it here particularly the North.

Min the Merciless
Min the Merciless
April 10, 2013 5:29 pm
Reply to  SourPatch

Well said.

Seabird
Seabird
April 10, 2013 10:20 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Sorry Anon, get a handle and come in and comment properly. Don’t try to sanitize history or how people feel about her. Fuque that one million times. Now is precisely the right time to discuss what she did and what followed. I want my daughter to know what she did, and what followed. I could t give a good goddamn about being polite about her death, she was a nightmare in life and in death she is totally not mourned by the millions of people her policies personally affected. Don’t try to make out she should be immune from this,… Read more »

MizBee
MizBee
April 9, 2013 6:13 pm

Anyone else out there remember the 1979 election? What it was like to be female then and suddenly the opportunity was there to get a woman into the ‘top job’? It was my first e