Sandy Hook

Filed in Astro-Passages

Obviously what just occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut is just hideous. I spent some time stuffing around with the charts of this, the Aurora “Batman” shootings, Columbine, Dunblane looking for, you know, astrological resonance. * But it’s just too sad & heartbreaking; i don’t really care what Mars or the Moon was doing on these awful days. It’s just too easy and heartbreaking to imagine the horror, the grief and if there is any take-home astro-message to this, it’s just the Zap Zone (Uranus square Pluto) again. Change has to happen & sooner, faster or more profoundly than it has happening now. This is not really a post that’s saying much – bless those poor little children, give their parents strength & may this sort of atrocity never occur again is the gist of it –  but you can share your thoughts etc here if you like.

* If i do find an article online that really wraps up all these sorts of events & cracks some insane astrological code, i’ll link to it on Twitter or somewhere as an f.y.i but the astrology of atrocity is not my core competency. Plus, you know, seriously w.t.f IS being done to nab these people before they go awry?  Mental health, gun control and even (as in the case of the recent homicide in Melbourne, Australia) characters who are known threats being kept off the streets. There is so much to do. Maybe Saturn in Scorpio during the Zap Zone IS when we and our leaders do it.

 

Image: Cristina De Middel

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278 thoughts on “Sandy Hook

  1. Sent the most positive healing vibes into the Multiverse.

    The best (and succinct) comment about the tragedy, well, I came across it on Aquarius Papers (http://www.aquariuspapers.com/astrology/2012/12/a-meditation-at-a-tragic-moment.html):
    “Prayers also for the Shooter. Ho’oponopono phrase to repeat: “I am sorry. Please forgive me. I love you. I am grateful.”

    Dear shooter, I am sorry you were sucked into violent mental illness. Please forgive me for being part of the society that made your pain invisible. I love you, for you are a Divine Child just as I am. I am grateful, for in this way darkness is raised to light, to visibility, for healing and release.

    Namaste.” – Shayne Laughter

    (I hope s/he doesn’t mind my posting this)

    This expressed it beautifully, esp. the part about our society that makes a lot of people’s pains invisible……. It breaks my heart, because I’ve known people who’ve gone through similar things with their ill health too, except in our society when your illness isn’t physical/obvious, a lot of uneducated bungholes still consider it ‘not a real illness’. This covers anything from mental illness, fibromyalgia, etc etc etc.

    (RW has also put up another two articles related to this tragedy, and I felt I didn’t need to check out the chart of the shooter as I felt it disrespectful – for me personally anyway – and the other is about taxing the bullets.)

  2. I finally found the love to connect to in this story. A photo of the first grade teacher named Victoria came across my FB stream. She hid her kids in the closet but didn’t hide herself and was gunned down. She was 27. She’ not angry or upset at all. She is really, really happy and honored that all her kids are safe. I guess teachers, some teachers, really do think of their students as their children. She did. And she has things to tell them, like “Everything is OK. These are grown-up problems. Any grown-up would have done what I did to protect you. Don’t worry about it. That man was sick and broken. Its not what you should expect from life. And now, you can get on with learning about the world and yourselves. You’re going to have so many great teachers in life. And maybe even some of you will be teachers one day.”

    I’ve been chest heaving crying from the beauty in that. I can’t articulate feeling, but to her everything is as it should be. It really puts my “problems” with life into perspective.

    • Yes, that’s lovely. Have had some huge cries today too 12th. Actually did a 6 mile walk today instead of three…

      But, later, as went to health food store for a few things, the desert is so beautiful today…The clouds moving slowly across the peppered, mountainess landscape and the palms moving, caressing the sky…

      Aw, I need a nap is all I can say. Hard to subsist on just a bit of Chardonnay and no food. 8th house Moon becomes overwhelmed with emo.

      A song came on about my Mother when she had died and am thinking about Toro…A 8th house Mars and my 8th house Moon…There is nothing light and fluffy about it…It’s deep down transformation and I feel it beacuse I have not cried like this in a long time. Had to actually hold my face while I was driving.

      Geeze, what would farty pants think? Yes, I laughed a lot today on my walk too. Like I said somewhere, a bit bi polar lately.

      Uranus on Mercruy insanity? Maybe..

      My Kataka and Gem daughters emailed me but can’t cope until that nap..x

      That was something I thought about today. That 8th house influenced my not be able to cope with the everyday (today I really can’t and have a million things to do) when under the influence of transformation.

      Forget the chardonnay…it was happening anyway.

      • Lets see if the Toro, since picking up my pkg, ends up being a big fat fuqin cry baby extrodinaire..

        I actually sense he is not. But proof in the puddin’ and all.. 😉

        I’m kidding. This is not a shallow person, I know that or he would not have crossed my path.. Uh, sorry but I don’t do shallow unless I’m coming from farty pants perspective… 😆

      • I was crying yesterday realizing I never really had a father. Weird, deep, stuff coming to surface. My appetite has changed. Feeling really sensitive to smell still. So, I suspect something in the energy has really shifted. Somewhat massive readjustment going on.

        • Sorry about Father babe. Do you have Saturn retrograde by any chance?

          According to Noel Tyl, that’s a hallmark of an absentee father.

          It doesn’t mean he is physcially absent either tho…Maybe emo…

          My grandaughter has Saturn Rx and her bio father has been hugely absent but her step dad (Pisecs Sun, 8th…Leo Moon conjunct Saturn, 1st) , who adopted her, is quite present since she was four and I bless him for that.

          ~What if you should decide, that you don’t want me there in your life…that you don’t want me there by your side..How can you know it if you don’t even try?~

          Listening to Coldpay..

          • I have Saturn in Cancer. I heard 12th house sun is the no-father astro signature and Saturn retro is problem with connecting. Anyway, my Dad was there but not in any way at all emotionally. He was like a strange robot.

            • I think Sun represents father like Moon does mother. But Saturn kind of shows the lessons we learned from our fathers/authority. In my case, Cancer in the 10th house, emotional restriction and financial/social dependence.

            • 12v does this link in some way with an absent “husband”? your relating patterns in love life?

            • Ha! It sure does!

              In 2009, I got all love zombied out over a guy, but it was so much more than that. Root chakra-Kali energy or whatever was released. Hardcore. And I had God in my head. It was scary. Anyway, God/The Universe kept pressing me on what I wanted. I was all crying and just going with it and found myself saying I wanted to heal my Dad. It surprised me that I went there. And the Universe said “Heal yourself first.” Now, three years later and I haven’t talked to my Dad in two years. And I realized, I just have to accept him as he is. I mean, I thought I had. But it came up again. And I had to forgive what it was he never had to give me. He’s like the wound I project on the sick world, you know? Or has been. Funny how we all do that – see the pain or find our way back to it again – rather than sit with the wound.

            • WOW.. 12th I continue to stay in sync with you. Your story is SO close to mine. Although I am still trying to figure out if it is my Dad or eldest brother. Thanks for sharing.

              xo!!

            • Glad its useful! I’m feeling kind of pathetic, like “DUH! Did you REALLY think all that was your fault? Did you really think every time you were hurt you should expect to be ridiculed for it?”

              Its hard to say what “normal” is around here. Really. Everyone is wounded. I just want to be nice to someone and have them be nice back. Being nice to you on the blog is OK, but it would be nice to find friendly people in real life too. 🙂

            • I know… I feel the same way. I don’t have best friends who I can call, be myself, be open and honest and they just understanding and being a friend. I try but it is not recipricated. So, I am alone, trying to build friendships that I can be comfortable with. I use to have friends I could rely on.. but hat has changed. I honestly feel understood and counseled with this group in MM’s blog. It’s my counseling center. Thank you Mystic! <3

              xo!!

            • yes. it’s software that we wrote as little children and it’s no longer useful for us. I found a way out (am *finding* a way out, present tense) by looking at people who are in r’ships that are successful – ie loving, open, affectionate, present, caring – and in _recognising_ the deeply-placed sensations that I experienced in r’ships – wanting love, wanting acknowledgement, wanting to be heard and knowing that what I wanted MEANT SOMETHING to that person and they acted on it. it’s a massive deal. constantly chasing a figment / constantly chasing the love of a father (or mother, whoever) who was not there – for whatever reason. once we realise that we can make different choices now that we’re grown ups with our own capacity to choose and assert – with sensitive awareness – personal power in r’ships, we know it’s safe to walk away from dysfunction in a relationship with The Other because, as adults, this is NOT a threat to our survival (like it may have been as a kid), it doesn’t mean we’re un-lovable. It just means we know better now.. xxxooo Pi

            • Feelings were weapons in my family. I never felt comfortable having any vulnerabilities. I mean, I guess no one does, but I just grew up armed on that point. Anyway, totally fits the pattern of falling for unavailable people. They can’t get close to me and they can treat me just like Daddy did – with complete indifference and a total take-it-or-leave-it, you’re-crazy vibe. Its so simple, yeah?

  3. OMG – so unrelated, but I discovered my Mars in Libra – James Bond. The old movies. The world where villains had rules of engagement, and they were equally matched, almost with the same agendas, oddly, but in constant conflict and relentlessly stylish.

    Real life is so much messier than that. I have a hard time sitting down or enjoying the taste of food.

    I am giving myself a Bond-a-Thon tonight.

  4. The loss of lives was such a huge sacrifice and it comes at a time when sacrifice – change of seasons/stars aligning/religious holiday – was common. It’s like a permanent wound in the collective that will always stay open. Now, what in our collective soul would ask for a sacrifice like that? What do we project in our society that makes sacrifice the thing that gets us in tune with what we really value about life and the brief moment we have of being alive on this beautiful earth? These are Saturn/Pluto/Scorpio/Capricorn issues.

    It’s much easier to talk gun laws than to ponder what’s out of control in us. It’s easier to pretend that the truth and justice are had from laws and protest instead of just facing that our social values are totally and deeply fucked up. We aren’t in tune with what we value so we require drama to find it – you know – 12th-house-speakingly. Like MJ sang, I’m starting with the man in the mirror. I really do believe we can do better than this.

    • I’m trying to get on with fixing my house today, but the pain in the atmosphere is so heavy, such an open wound that its almost too simple to escape. Nothing complicated. Pure tragedy. That’s the problem I have with politicizing the event. Intellect is an escape from that pain. And it shouldn’t be escaped. It should be open because that’s where the love is, in the hurt. Politics will play on what changes in us because of this. But we first, how we greet that pain, are the change.

      • I had some tears today thinking of those poor little bodies laying there…I get teary just thinking about it.

        Okay, out for a walk & for some fresh air.

        If anything like that happened to my grandaughter, swear I would kill myself. Of course thats not going to help the issue but the pain…oh my gawd the pain would be unbearable.

        • But of course we just take that pain with us until we come back to process it and heal it…

          “And the seasons, they go round and round.

          And the painted ponies go up and down

          We’re captive on the carousel of time”

          Joni Mitchell, Circle Game

        • The dead innocent moved on. They aren’t in pain any longer. Its the grief of the living, the absolute shattering of trust/faith/certainty and confronting how quickly life can be taken from us. I mean, its one things in words. Its another in a mother’s heart. I feel the grief of the community, individual by individual. I don’t even read the news. And I really don’t know how to coach someone past that.

          True, its karmic and shocking for the young souls. And no doubt, they will have issues of trust and fear to face. As do we all. But how do we tell the living…?

          I understand why people would want to change laws right away. I know mothers and father often launch massive social campaigns on behalf of their lost children. But it is an unhealable wound.

          Perhaps the Chirons are multiplying.

  5. It is difficult to say anything meaningful, my heart goes to all parents who watch their children leave this world, wherever they live – in the States, in Yemen, in Afghanistan or in West Bank, or in Syria. There will be a time when these parents will talk on behalf of their children.

  6. actually Luna, if you read what mystic posted she said she was not so interested in the astrology of this event, it was more about giving us a forum to share. i did not but appreciated the gesture. we are not idiots – we know that shit goes down all the time and this WAS particularly poignant. And as anon eloquently pointed out – this IS actually an astrology blog.

  7. This quote is going around Facebook and I think its a good one:

    “When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, ‘Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.’ To this day, especially in times of disaster, I remember my mother’s words and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers – so many caring people in this world.” -Fred Rogers

    • The mother who equipped their child with a real offering, really gave with love and practical purpose hope to enable a child’s ability to think laterally out of a horrible challenging situation. I see many children, wonder often of their circumstances…Many of us adults but always a part of us a child too.

  8. Can we speak about something light here? I mean, I don’t want to get political. A tragedy is a tragedy. But, I’ve never found a long term social solution to include taking away freedom for the sake of security. I just haven’t. I don’t know what would work. But the problem seems to me – at a spiritual level – extreme alienation. Who makes and buys guns? Humans do. Its done now.

    In the Seth books, he talks about a society before ours that bred the aggression out of the species and eventually died out. How does our society handle aggressive instincts and the expression of passionate energies? That’s the problem.

    Its just too easy to hate on the hater or to blame the materials used.

      • 12th house Virgo, this was brilliant and my thoughts exactly. I was working a temp job and a coworker kept complaining about how fuqed up everyone is. I had to repeatedly tell her, “No, we’re not. Have you ever gone to the grocery store and seen a crazy person? It’s just that’s what the media perpetuates.” Did you know that overall crime in every capacity has gone DOWN in the last 25 years but the media coverage of those same crimes has gone up by 500%?

        When the American media has to broadcast for 24 hrs a day AND pay attention to ratings, they have to put something on. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that most of these mass-shootings have taken place in the past 25 years. We celebrate violence here, for the same reason the Romans celebrated violence.

        It’s entertaining.

        • Well I used to see crazy people at the grocery store all the damn time when I lived in London. Thing is, due to the laws here, none of them had a gun.

          Yeah, sure. “Guns don’t kill people”. They just make it a HELL of a lot easier for crazy people to kill people.

        • All of the “reality” TV shows celebrate humiliating,bullying shaming and marginalizing the “bad” person. This is the American equivalent of the lions eating humans. “Gotcha” justifies harsh critique and self-satisfaction at catching people in human foibles. It is nauseating. Parents wonder why kids go to school and treat classmates in the same callous way.Love and prayers to all who are missing lived ones in this winter season.

    • exactly! The way 911 was handled in regards to an overzealous homeland security is NOT the model we want to copy for this tragedy!

    • I remember reading about a pre-Aryan Goddess culture ; (so pre 2500 B.C) that was guided by 3 main rules , 1 of which was “Men shall not be allowed to carry arms “.They’d obviously figured out that when you put men and weapons together – you get problems .Basic stuff . i think we all accept that women would be more likely to talk things through .

      • I agree with you there Lisa, and was shocked to hear that the 3 guns kept in the house, of which 2 were used, in this horrific scene, were owned by the mother.

  9. I feel as though you can’t really create an astrological transit related basis for a shooting because worse things happen on a REGULAR day basis. Women are sold as sex slaves by the millions, thousands of people go missing, killed, slaughtered and genocide is a daily occurrence.

    Whats more is that many of these tragedies occur during “simple” transits like Mercury going Direct, yet no one says that those transits influence that bullshit in the world.

    • yes, but this is on a collective level thus the impact and interest. it’s an astrology blog after all so please don’t judge those who attempt to work out patterns.

      • Of course its an astrology blog! Even though I love astrology, I’m just criticizing something that appears to be very pigeon holed.

        I’m not judging anyone for liking astrology. I’m just challenging this niched tendency that comes up with events like these where we hone in on *which* transit or alignment influenced this when shit goes on every single day that doesn’t get nearly as much as attention or speculation that Uranus Squaring So&So in Pluto is responsible for it.

        Okay, this is GREAT that we’re looking at various factors that could’ve played a part here, but why are we only applying this to single events like these opposed to what’s happening GLOBALLY? Sure, Saturn in Scorpio and Neptune in Pisces can explain a multitude of events that have been occurring recently – I just feel as if horrible things happen regardless of which sort of transits affect it, so a bunch of speculation over THIS is pigeon holed.

        How are you going to say that a particular transit influenced a shooting when it happens every day during transits that don’t imply that ANYTHING insidious would actually occur because they’re “happy” transits full of trines and sextiles?

        • Transits are only one aspect. For example, if you take a look at some of what sweetpea posted, people are looking at individual charts as well as the current transit. And as I said, this type of mass slaughter gets the attention of the collective whether that’s right or wrong, thus the interest. No one would deny atrocities happen every day.

          I for one will not apologise for looking at the astrology of this incident on an astrology blog!

  10. Lots of good arguments and discussions. But at the absolute very core here is – would the boy be able to wreak the kind of destruction he has done in Connecticut here in Australia.

    Answer: Yes he could. But it would be highly unlikely.

    You see, in Australia, hardly anyone has a gun. And that is not a problem! We don’t even think about it. Americans need to look outwards and realise that owning a gun is not a right. And it is not right either. There is something wrong with it.

  11. I’ve found all these comments hopeful and informative. To me it reaffirms that the world needs and wants to change but most of us are asking how ??

    I think I have made a lot of changes on a personal level lately. Going through my Saturn return I have left a bullshit industry – real estate and now work part time in a charity and am about to study education and be a teacher. My son has a Capricorn moon, so I will take very seriously what a previous poster said about paying enough attention to your own child. However that’s me on a personal level and yet I am still not satisfied.

    It’s how to help make change on a larger
    scale is what stumps me. How how how are we going to do it because this tragedy is unacceptable.

  12. Thanks for not looking for astro-significance in this tragedy, MM. As soon as people start banging on about….well, new-agey stuff or their own personal theories about why heavy stuff happens for “spiritual” or “religious”reasons, my hackles go up. I find it disrespectful to the victims and their families. Common sense and compassion, not superstition and blame-slinging. The people most closely affected need to find their own answers, it’s not our place to be delving.

    I agree that we should look to those in power (society writ large) and question the systems in place that enable such behaviour.

    • Perhaps the Luxe Interior Co-Pilot was not your best choice for the job ; because i think you’ve stumbled into the wrong place .
      Not sure if a site that deals with some of the more complex aspects of the ancient science of Astrology is the best place to be Complaining about people “banging on about New -Agey stuff ” , and getting your hackles up about others trying to make sense of the world ,the best way they can …with personal theories ( as opposed to borrowed ones i guess ).
      “Not our place to be delving ” ?Yikes ..What are we doing on this planet ?

      • To re-state my comment: the reason I read this site is precisely because MM refrains from such wankery. She is respectful, intelligent and sane.

        By “spiritual blame-slinging” I don’t mean ill-applied astrology exclusively, but any kind of “spiritual” mumbo jumbo, from “God is punishing us for our sins” to “It’s Karma and they were all mongol warriors in a past life”.

        • Agree with you!! Hate all that spiritual mumbo jumbo too!
          I’m interested in practical REAL life solutions.
          Cap Asc! 🙂

  13. Every time this happens (and lately, it happens a lot) I ask myself – why are we so enraged and alone and desperate now? Grew up in a poor rural area in the 80s. EVERYONE had hunting guns and pistols. Most had some trouble at home. Lots of substance abusing parents, no $$ — but no one ever shot each other. what was different? We weren’t medicated and early atari and MTV were the biggest media. We talked to each other. Our nervous systems were still analog…. Or maybe it is something else. Wish we knew.

    • I think the talking really is part of it Jules, social alienation is the worst outcome for any society. Once people believe that society cannot make space for them, does not value them and may be actively working agains their personal happiness then the social contract breaks down.

      It is the same here on a smaller scale, increasingly young people believe that opportunities to advance are blocked off from them.

      In the seventies there was a much smaller gap between the strata in society and much more movement between strata. Increasingly there are the mega wealthy and then a huge gap between them and the middle class which has seen its conditions eroded by increasing casualization and greater job insecurity. The working classes have seen the decline in manufacturing squeeze them out of jobs as actual production has taken a back seat to the creation of wealth for a tiny minority through the financial system which often has an interest in actually cutting production through these financial instruments that leverage debt and gamble on “hedge” funds. The financialization of the economy and the break down of the social contract go hand in hand.

      When the social contract begins to break down we are all in danger. The elites worry about the “crisis of legitimacy” – when the population no longer believes the political classes have any interest in ensuring the welfare of the majority of its subjects, when they feel that politicians are now completely co-opted by corporate interests, that is, the elites worry they will lose power, but on a broader scale, that mass loss of faith in the structures, political and social, which scaffold our society, leads to violent push back.

      The signs of the breakdown of the social contract have been there for a long time, the strange paranoia about the attempts to institute universal health care is a symptom that people no longer believe the state is anything other than an instrument of corporations. It comes off as downward envy but it is really about a loss of faith in the state.

      • Wow. Exactly! Thank you Anon. You have so neatly, so eloquently encapsulated thoughts that have been trying coalesce in my brain for quite some time now and have provided me with even more food for thought.

        The thing that hangs me up though is exactly what do we do about it on a concrete level? Is this just the painful part of a necessary evolution or is this merely the beginning stages of complete societal destruction? How do we know either way?

  14. Message to all Americans.
    Please stop exporting weapons of mass murder to the world
    Please stop exporting your strange sick ‘reality’ culture to the world
    Please stop pumping yourselves and your children with pharma drugs
    Please stop selling guns to any person who decides they need one
    Please stop selling the world your take on ‘freedom’.
    Please stop, for your own sake, and for ours.

    The fiscal cliff looms and all those billionaires still hold their dollars close while 30% of the population goes sick and hungry.
    I say jump. Go on jump !

    For any of you that still maintain some shred of sanity. Rise up now and have your say ! Its now or never.

      • The truth hurts Sweetpea.
        But you have to understand what those outside the states see.
        The facts speak for themselves. The effects so obvious when on the outside looking in.
        In Australia we care about you guys, see you as brothers and sisters, and just as its hard to see a brother damaged and in pain it’s hard not to want to shake you guys and say wake up !!

        • Davey, I get that, but I am not them.When you say all Americans, I’m just asking you to not generalize too much is all.

          Is this our first fight? lol

          Why two Aries should never get married, or even go there…Just joking. I love you..It’s all cool…x

          And I don’t care really…The Toro has gotten my gift package and I’m really more focued on love and the personal transformation I’m going thru.

          To rise up is with personal transformation and enlightenment. Thats the only revolution that will work.

      • Exactly, first thing is to separate the ideas of freedom and Nationalism.
        Flag waving, flag worship, it’s all separation and a way to commit the most horrible and dishonourable in the name of ones country.
        Beware of those that drape themselves in the flag, there lurks a scoundrel or some type of nationalist zombie.

      • Exactly, first thing is to separate the ideas of freedom and Nationalism.
        Flag waving, flag worship, it’s all separation and a way to commit the most horrible and dishonourable in the name of ones country.
        Beware of those that drape themselves in the flag, there lurks a scoundrel or some type of nationalist zombie.

  15. Oh, & I just noticed the word “connect” also in the name of this state Connecticut…. ie. We are all “connected”.. says the Universe to us all at this time.. Yet, another reminder.. connecting with the heart within us all.. “The Children”, we are all children, deep within us all.. If not a little wounded by the harchsness of Life at times.. ie. Mercury in Sagittarius, currently also squaring *Neptune-Chiron in Pisces… Also, being emphasised by also being squared by the recent Gemini Lunar Eclipse!!! Remember, “we” are all “connected”…

    • Although as for facing the “harsh realities of life”.. of course this is more connected with Saturn in Scorpio sextile Pluto in Capricorn….. But the Neptune & Chiron in Pisces, point to the deep wounds within the our Collective human Soul & or psyche….

  16. something profound needs to change? im glad it takes some mass shooting of subruban white kids dying when individual kids die in the ghetto here in chicago every day. obamas from here and i dont see any tears for them. or the kids who he drops bombs on in the middle east. everybody cares when its rich kids dying, then people say we need a change, god damn

    • i know, i share your frustration. where are the 500 facebook prayer chains for the chicago gangland kids, or the homeless kids freezing unseen in vans in winter, or the philippino kids killed in the typhoon last week, or the children of homs, or iraq, or everywhere else they are expendable collateral damage? only when they look like us it seems do we see them. that is another huge lesson. 🙁 i pointed this out on facebook and was promptly unfriended by a few yesterday. whatever.

      • I read all till here & my thoughts were the same as yours. Syria!
        Hideous that children are being attacked every which way, if not killed then molested.

  17. Well I don’t claim to know so much about this topic, just from what I read and hear from American friends.
    Re gun control the US runs the world’s arms trade, and the world drug trade, that is known and written about.
    Like, when the US invaded Afghanistan there was a great drop in the amount of heroin on the market due to the disturbance of invasion.
    Within a short time they had the farms running better than ever and the heroin market today is prospering. The soldiers guard the fields while Afghani’s labour.
    From what I understand though, over the counter drugs kill more people still?

    As to guns, one of the last things that US citizens hold on to is the ‘right to bear arms’.
    The constitution wasn’t written with that right so that citizens would murder each other, it was so they could REBEL when the inevitable happened: the government colludes with the banksters and turns the people into slaves to debt.

    If you took all the armies in the entire world in history and put them together, the US army today would be bigger. It is the biggest army the world’s ever seen. An armed population would constitute a larger army I think is the idea.
    And did you know that large donations to the NY Police were given by the banksters to harass the peaceful protesters of Occupy Wall Street?

    In a more immediate context, America lacks the police to deal with personal safety in many areas so I do understand the feeling of needing to keep guns. It is a question we, in the fascist nanny state that is the island Australia, do not need to contend with.

    Then out of the context of the visible light spectrum to another frequency level of this situation, there is entity possession encouraged by drugs, alcohol & spiritual ignorance, damaged and dispossessed souls both alive and dead on the earthly plan causing added pressure to the powder keg situation.

    However, like many say above, I think the real war is within us & in how we deal with our loved ones. We only really connect with 100,000 people in our lives at the most – as in meeting them, talking to them etc. So our loving everyday interactions are important as can be.
    A thousand blessings on these little souls & all those of Newtown who must be devastated, peace and love to all.

    • LIked your post Andie….

      Those police paid by the banksters to harass the protesters really pisses me off but then the whole thing got only minimal tv coverage in the first place…hello?

      And the peeps that think that they can have arms to rebel if it turns into a total police state, don’t think they’d really stand a chance.

      But really, I posted some long while ago that my nephew is in the Marine Corp and if you aren’t willing to shoot on American citizens, they ship you off to Afghanistan.

      And yes about the drugs and alchohol. I leaned alot about that when I was attacked by shit when I had been drinking. Was invented to keep you down and also, then the discarntes who passed over without getting off the stuff now can get their jollies thru you.

      I’ve always kept the bright and hopeful side of things and I have refrained from the doom and gloom, however, my teacher, Bob Fickes wrote in one of his books that the astral realm is filled to overflowing. That right up, literally, to Source, there is karma and that everthing will head for destruction if people dont start healing and getting enlightened, ie, bring in higher consiousness and transform that and their bodies.

      His teacher said that on the path, that right before you see God/Source…you see It’s opposite. Can you imagine what that big ol thoughtform mutha that mankind has created must look like?

      • The reason why there would be destruction is because of the tension between Source and creation. The rigidity of creation that is not flowing with Source.

        There is great power (higher consciousnes from Source) that would like to manifest here and bring this reality up a notch to the fourth dimension but it can’t because the state the world is in, that power would literally obliterate everything.

        Anyway, I won’t go on about all that. I keep sharing stuff here that I really need to be writing about and that is my goal next year…that and meditating like hell..

      • Yes, I agree, while the original intention of those that created the constitution was to keep the power in the hands of the population, well, a few machine guns against the sound weapons, drones and bombs of today.. dunno. Ha, meditate like hell, lol!
        Am unsurprised but saddened by yr neph’s report there.
        Gloom & doom is dull, but apathy is the worst. I too try to be optimistic and loving. I wish there were more spiritual people in our communities to help the souls move on though. The priest at the last mass I went to was swirling with dark energies, he couldn’t transmute his own stuff, let alone that of the dead.
        And yes, write yr stuff, don’t share till it is done or it loses it’s will, I totally get that.

  18. did anybody look at his birth chart that sweetpea posted above? ceres in aqua, chiron in leo, sun in taurus turned into a massive square by tr. saturn. pluto/moon on his moon, uranus on his merc., mars on his nept/uranus, nn on his pluto. any one of those is a hard transit- put them all together… this kid needed a mm support system more than anyone in the world. 🙁

    i’m with fallen angel that what we need politically are locally specific regulations that address the psychological need for self-sufficient security. without acknowledging this, the gun control debate becomes a bunch of black and white hyperbole that accomplishes nothing. it may be an uniquely american thing as our constitution is based in many ways on a distrust of government, from both sides of the political spectrum. i know personally neither my extended family nor i have a gun, but every other family i know does. every single one. every two-bit criminal i’ve ever met does (except for the homeless ones). since i’ve started living alone the thought to get one has crossed my mind- i haven’t, as they’re not in my comfort zone and plus i have a scary wwi bayonet knife that’s definitely seen action and holds massive energy for self defense, but still.

    also, calling peeps here who are just being realistic about the situation “pro-gun” is a bit of a stretch. the pro-gun contingent i know, like my swat team ex, are all going on about arming teachers and such. i’m positive they would classify us as the opposition. just sayin.’

    • Hey Hidden,

      And if one looks at the chart, also note trans Mars on his Uranus square his Aries Venus..

      Venus of course, besides the Moon, is a sign of the feminine (killing his Mother)..

      And, as someone on that forum (where the chart is) noted, his Sun square Chiron…

      • oh i missed the venus-mars sq. chiron opp ceres being squared by saturn was what got me- saturn on ceres was the worst incident of my life. i guess uranus was squaring his nodes too. and venus on his pluto a few days before. so much pain.

  19. This past week has been–wow–F——d.
    But it’s not about gun control, the guy in China did it with a knife…all children in both incdences were between the age of 5-11 WTF. Same number of casualties in both ???
    Sandy the hurricane now Sandy Hook school in the same area of USA ??
    Always remember…”Your hidden enemy is always a friend, they know you well enough to know what you’ll do when confronted….a total stranger won’t mess with you as badly, because he doesn’t know if your armed or not!”

    • But they lived. That’s the point – yes, people can still commit crimes against others but the scale of devastation and loss is diminished significantly when guns aren’t used.

      Lots of people say – well, we can’t ban guns because it won’t stop anything, someone can still use a knife – yeah, but all those kids in China are still alive.

      Surely minimizing harm is preferable to not doing anything at all?

  20. ssssooo many comments i not had time to read yet, i just turned the rv on and its thunderbirds is on, aquarious moon, its all so surreal and nothing seems real anymore this year has been TOO MUCH now these latest killings is URANUS in ARIES waking us up to the fact that the gun law has to change or it will just keep going on but its already out of control. I just feel this overwhelming sense of gratitude that even though australia has problems , no the gun thing. Can u imagine if u could get a gun in australia the same as america. Also America not have our health system. It is a painful reminder given though current chiron in pisces, we are meant to be approaching the age of aquarious and i read that in Hare Krishna= they talk about Kali Yuga as being the hardest time on earth, there are different era’s like the golden era, when god or love or oneness consciousness was everywhere. Now we in Kali, i look up and the puppets on thunderbirds are crying. People eat way too much meat and to the point we need to keep saughter houses and animals re treated in the most inhumane, horrific ways. Its all over the news now as CHIRON collective wound must be HEALED. All that is hidden is being revealed. Instead of just being horrified we need to take a stand against ALL unspiritual acts.

        • Chiron was, de facto, a healer and mentor/master teacher. His name is carried on through “chiro”practic.

          I admit there’s a paradox, initially, in Chiron issues: you feel as if you cannot heal from your own wound but instead you help others who share a similar wound. That is the first expression of awareness.

          But awareness of pain IS a teacher. Being blind to your weaknesses only perpetuates the harm.

          If the Chirotic pain is still a great wound, unhealed, I wonder what is happening. Certainly nature shows us a desire for healing, for completion, for wholeness. I doubt very much it is the desire of the Universe that our wounds fester without remedy. But I do admit that the “healing” is often imperfect.

          I think every person who has faced their Chiron point honestly and openly allowed its lessons can say, “I still haven’t found what I’m looking for” without bitterness or fear of self-contradiction. Chiron keeps us humble, but not broken.

          • Those are good points.

            To me, the deepest wound is where we feel seperated from God, or our Source…All That Is.

            That is the deepest Soul wound that each individual must heal but it can be healed through enlightenment..or simply evolving back (we devolved a long time ago)..to our original state of light and grace and being what our truest expression of Source is thru us.There are no wounds in that state…only blissful Beingness.

            Pain is not natural and mankind made pain, not Source.

            My truths anyway and what I have come to know thru my own Chironic healing journey.

        • That a dualistic view. I can’t really talk around it. Humanity is totally trained to favor intellect over feeling. And part of the “healing” path is to allow feelings to be, painful or not. And that’s what Chiron does.

          • i just read this from ASTRO SPARKLE
            Talk, discuss, delve, question – and seek answers. And there is support in today’s astrology with MERCURY currently square to CHIRON and separating from the trine to URANUS. We have been delivered shocking, upsetting news all too easily – and now we must address the wound, the Collective Wound, as difficult as it is. A huge blow has been dealt, personally to the victims and their families and communities, and to the collective. The wound is raw and aggravated – and there is potential uprising and rebellion in the air as a result of it. We need to be vocal in our grief. We need to try to understand what happened. And we need to work together en masse to let the governments and the authorities know that this is not OK.
            the course of miracles state’s that we are here TO HEAL that is our purpose.

  21. I was thinking about this last night and thought how wonderful it would be if America now really tightened gun control. Might be the beginning of a new era on earth. And perhaps the black market etc too loaded with weapons, what about stopping the sale of ammo? There’s a great skit by Chris Rock about this.
    Poor litle kids and their families. It’s really time for change now.
    I don’t care how frightened people in the States are. It only took one massacre for the establishment of gun control in Australia. And ones more than enough!

  22. The shooter’s mother must have seen some red flags but you know it can be impossible here in the US to get someone 18 or over the mental health care they need if the person is not cooperating or compliant with their meds. 20 years is prime time for certain mental health issues to flourish.

  23. This incident really hits hard upon us Americans due to us being a Cancer sign nation. We are all about the importance of family. This incident has heightened my motherly instinct to protect my daughter and give her extra love right now. 🙂

  24. how is it places like switzerland which arms nearly all of its citizens has less mass murders per capita than the u.s.?
    Even Canada has less than the u.s. and they watch the same violent shows and video games.

    A person who quoting stats said 48% of guns obtained for these rampages were obtained legally and that mental illness played a role. Common sense says make better screening process to keep guns from getting into the hands of people who aren’t well. Also give better care to the mentally ill.
    I don’t see how taking guns away from law abiding citizens will be helpful although I don’t know why we need high powered assault rifles on the gun market seeing as a shotgun and pistol is all most people need for home defense. Perhaps for people in more rural areas that have to defend against bears?

    • Switzerland is a small, socially homogenous country with little poverty and universal healthcare. Very different from the US.

      Canada has tougher gun laws than the US.

      I don’t know anyone who owns a gun. Why do most Americans need a shotgun and pistol as a bare minimum?

      • The last 2 things poverty and health care is exactly why we have problems in the U.S.

        We should DEF improve gun laws and make it harder to get a gun, but taking all guns away is not a solution. We tried that with 9/11 and the only thing we have found is people get more creative trying to blow up stuff AND that the peeps who have been caught have been caught through the vigilance of common citizens NOT through xray screening or any of that crap.

        Depends where you live in the U.S. If you live in rural Colorado, you may need one to scare off bears and or coyotes or for hunting. The area where I lived before it was necessary to kill a large rattlesnake living under the house with a shotgun. If you live in the city, if you call 911, the police are slow to answer. Keeping a pistol *might* give you an advantage if you know how to use it.
        I don’t know why anyone in the U.S. would need a high powered assault rifle though. That makes no sense to me.

        and yes I own a gun. I enjoy target practice.

      • Most of the Americans that I know, including me, extended family, and all of my friends do not own any firearms – not even for hunting. Please don’t believe all of the sensationalized crap you see churned out by Hollywood and tabloid media about US citizens.

        • Yes, my son in law (republican by the way) and God love him, but he suggested I get a gun for what he sees, as someone above noted people are investing in for the coming “unrest,”…But I won’t do it. It is just not my reality.

          Jezus, I’m a massage therapist. I’ll rub the fuq outta you and kill you that way 😉

          • Altho I must be honest here and not a hypocrite, I did feel a bit threatend when I was taking the bus a week ago and this young man came up with a beer in his hand and was a little too friendly.

            I said “I have a weapon on me”….Cuz I didn’t know what he was up to and it was dark and I was alone.

            I then wondered if I should carry at least a steak knife on me…ha, thats all I had..I didn’t but yeah, interesting. I was out there in the world way more than I normally am when driving around in my private car/world and insulated from the grittier side.

            • I thought about Ms. and her “flicks blade” comments…A small switchblade to hide descretely on a girl may not be a bad idea, no?

              Maybe just carry the pepper spray and burn the fuqers eyeballs 😯

            • Because it’s true..violence may not be a part of our reality but it is a part of others…

              Some would say, well, but if you create your own reality, you don’t need protection but Seth in Seth Speaks said “well, of course use common sense and lock you doors at night”.

              I’m still a bit torn on the whole thing.

            • I have a gun. I leave it at home where it belongs. I wouldn’t bother carrying a knife. It’s just something else assailants can turn against you. Ditto pepper spray on a windy day. Just take some martial arts.

            • haha, good point. I don’t carry pepper spray or anything.

              Have always wanted to do some martial arts. Have felt my back fusion, etc would limit me but there are some moves I guess a person could learn, you know some basics of self protection.

            • I think you’d enjoy martial arts training!
              Find a good instructor in your area. There are even classes for students who are wheel chair bound or have to use a cane.
              The mind is the best weapon of all. srsly.

            • haha, yeah, I really couldn’t carry a steak knife legally either.

              but knitting needles?

              I remember after 911 I was leaving out of Munich and they let me on with a cheese grater…thought, hmm, i grate someone to death…

              sorry if this seems crass…maybe a few giggles help us?

              but think because of my last name, Persian and all, they took me aside and check my bag, twice.

            • At most I’d carry pepper spray unless I frequented a war zone. I’m a sort of lightning rod for kooks & drunks (maybe my Pisces Ascendant Chiron Venus Bacchus at work?!) and had several sudden confrontations over the years. I’ve used “Run! The cops are comin’!” and (loudly) “Hey! Are we gonna have a problem?”.
              Both work.

            • I thought you liked your bus trip :):)

              Drunken guys sliding up to you on a bus is pretty unpleasant, but isn’t it easier just to say excuse me and move up the front of the bus? I’ve not tried the ‘I have a weapon’ tactic, but I don’t think I’d be that scared of the man or I would think that by saying that I was making the situation worse. What was the fella’s response when you said that?

              I was dating someone for a while who I discovered carried a knife when I was tidying up his jeans and it fell out. Scared the b’jesus out of me and I broke up with him.

            • Oh no mitra,

              It was after 8:00 at night and at the bus stop waiting….I was sitting on a bench with my notebook listen to Queen Radio Ga Ga lol and dude walks up with his beer in one hand and just came on a bit too strong.

              He eneded up cool and I took his extended hand…He was an Aquarius lol

              haha I DID actually have fun riding the bus that week and might do it again just for the hec…hehe

            • I was going to ask you if he was Aqua. Gotta watch them tricksters 🙂 🙂

              Anyway, now you’ve told me that I don’t think you should be catching the bus at night. Bus stop entrapment is hideous.

          • YES ! I had a Scottish client once who said “I f only we’d known about Holistic Facial therapy at the Battle of culloden ! we could have sent out a team of massage therapists onto the field 1st – the endglish would have been annihilated !”

        • It’s intergenerational.

          My dad lives in California, votes for Obama, thinks the Republicans are whackos but has several guns because….he grew up in Alabama! And that’s just the way it is. And the men in the family protect the family.

          So yeah…I really think guns are either specifically used for criminal purposes or part of an intergenerational line of macho thought. Which is weak.

          Really curious to know why the kid’s mom had so many…

      • The Swiss military is interesting: “Besides being the most heavily armed population in the world, the Swiss also have one of the lowest crime rates”. Basically the entire nation is an army.

        I like Richard J. Maybury’s ‘Uncle Eric Books’. They are really simple and should be part of the high school syllabus, but they never will be as they are passionately …educational.

    • I have a gun for the sole purpose of putting native animals out of their misery if they have been run over and left by the side of the road to suffer. Before this I saw no purpose to own a gun as I never lived in a rural area. As I was reading through the comments I thought society can be a cold place and that it would be good if distressed peeps had some welcoming place they could go in every community where they could get soothing and true support from other people. My heart goes out to those who have lost their children and bless those young souls xxx

      • Hey Goat, I like your name…

        One of my Taurus male patients, when the massage hurts he says funny things like “goat hoofs” and curses in animal talk lol

        • Thanks, Sweets, i’ve done some decluttering, lol, but we’ve talked before.

          I love your description of the desert, i got a clarifying vibe of what it might be. I hope the sun gently evaporates those tears and lifts your heart as you go on your daily walks.

          I agree with what you say about Chiron, it is Humanity’s destiny to heal. For me, my greatest wound was to do with my mum and dad, esp. my mum. I have Chiron on Asc in Pisces and conj. Sat opp Pluto conj Uranus in Virgo. Chart is a grand cross splash.

          If i can make some positive emo transforms, i know in my gut this world can move to the light and grace. Lately i’ve been feeling the thoughts that maybe somehow as a society, we might somehow expand the concept of ‘family’ to embrace our wider orphaned society. I do this is my own life where i can and it really connects me to my community, maybe because i didn’t come from a loving family. Lights to u xx

    • also another good one about the data around these things http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/
      “When we first collected much of this data, it was after the Aurora, Colo. shootings, and the air was thick with calls to avoid “politicizing” the tragedy. That is code, essentially, for “don’t talk about reforming our gun control laws.”
      Let’s be clear: That is a form of politicization. When political actors construct a political argument that threatens political consequences if other political actors pursue a certain political outcome, that is, almost by definition, a politicization of the issue. It’s just a form of politicization favoring those who prefer the status quo to stricter gun control laws.”

    • In Western Australia one has so sit an exam, lot’s of paperwork and have half a police station come to your house to inspect your gunsafe! And that’s just for an air-rifle!

  25. If there were no guns, nobody would get shot.

    I find it difficult to accept that people unquestioningly take it as a given that we need guns (because) some people *need* to be shot. We so breezily forget the first commandment. I was so glad to discover the word hypocrisy when I was a nine year old it explained so much about life on earth with people.

      • I don’t think anyone has suggested taking guns away from police or the army–or from citizens. Unless I missed something here.

        Perhaps the finer distinctions are lost here. The issue is not rounding up all guns from citizens, police and the army and throwing them in the ocean or some pit somewhere. Did anyone say that? I am just checking because I don’t read every single post. I don’t think I have ever heard anyone suggest that. It’s an unusual idea. Would make a good short story–like a writing prompt for a Ray Bradbury-esque script.

        Anyway, what I HAVE heard commentary on–what people are actually advocating–is a look at gun safety laws to review them. To see if perhaps citizens need quick and easy access to weapons designed to spray multiple bullets in quick succession. As an aside, these don’t make good hunting guns if that is the “right” you are concerned about. If it is the right to bear arms, then I believe what might come under review is what exactly are the parameters of that right? What defines “arms” in the constitutional sense? A cannon? A machine gun? A grenade? A land mine? What do we need to feel “defended” as individuals? What is reasonable? I mean, the military has nuclear weapons. Does that mean each citizen has a right to have their own personal nuclear weapon? How far should this “right” extend and what was the original intent of that right? Do we really understand what that right is and what makes sense? These are reasonable questions to ask and, in the meantime, no one will take away your hand gun or rifle. No one has even suggested that in real life. Or I haven’t heard anyone suggest that.

        Chris Rock, however, suggests that bullets cost $5000 each. Which isn’t the worst idea…

  26. My thoughts about the astro …

    Think again about the astro for Friday 14 December 2012. The theme of the day could be described as “emboldened” in times of “sudden change”.

    Fantastic for biz. Excellent for busting through stuff and fast tracking projects. In other words, great for functioning, self-aware peeps. Uranus going direct. Disruption for some, breakthrough for others.

    The current Pluto theme is all about old, worn-out business (in the general sense) being brought swiftly to an end. Saturn defines what form the end will take. Scorpio adds a “psycho-sexual” twist.

    I imagine this guy enraged by some father-love / betrayal issue. (NB: thought this might be a more of mother-love theme at first – could be both).

    His parent’s divorce in 2009 is still traumatic for him and has little *inner* sense of how to deal with it. He shuts down. That hints at a rather unhappy, isolating influence of Saturn in his chart.

    With the recent New Moon he feels compelled this time to get the message across. It feels like a revenge fantasy he’s brooded over for quite some time – possibly a few years. It feels like “Do you really love me, Dad?” 27 times over.

    He destroys the thing closest to him: his mother. He also destroys her “children”. But the message is directed at his Dad. (Just my hunch – but one way or another all this will be spelled out through an expert astro reading.)

    Willing to bet nasty fixed star business in his chart / chart of school. No doubt the guys over at Dark Star will offer some interesting if not chilling insights.

    Add some a gruesome T-square or other configuration that is funneling this energy through to his Mars – thus fueling his dark revenge scenario.

    The guns were available (no proper boundaries or limitations at home / in the community). Circumstances made it easy to carry out his plans. The only option was to act out the extreme. This is major factor in all these events: no sense of limits. We first learn about “limits” in the family …

    The global impact of this story is significant. We’re left deeply shocked (who didn’t burst into tears when they first heard / saw the news?). Uranus again – add emotional depth from Chiron.

    Neptune and Chiron will be significant for the healing process. Very powerful stuff here, on every level.

    Our prayers for the parents and all the kids at Sandy Hook.

  27. The capricorn / scorpio yod to lillith over retrograde jupiter moving (while moon passes over pluto) I think mirrors in part aspects of this tragedy…
    I think of children and learning in gemini…but know little of lillith and fixed stars being spoken about in more detail.

    Learning and institutions and the ideologies accompanying or coming out of the experiences, whether traumatic, valid or corrupted is of great concern. Children as sacrifice is taboo, very sad, perhaps someone’s vendetta. What of the mother’s ending as the school suffers too.

    Schools as places of rites of passage, not as safe as we mostly know, not places of acceptance or equality as many of us would hope. Educators who have more spirit and courage but cannot prevent an ugly reality from occurring.

    I have been to more than twelve schools; some dire, others so exclusive they cost the same as a property…and mostly as a passing observer, couldn’t help but notice similar themes in every place regardless of money or location. Many people accept conformity and slip into the system with little trouble but there is much difficulty for many too.

    Then there is cruelty and controversy in community circles with adults behaviour towards other parents, albeit children. Sorry to say I see some who are targeted or excluded on a daily basis, and it is always uncomfortable for anyone to know and not necessarily speak up. The sooner society starts collectively endorsing egalitarian principles in care, parenting and support to parents the more gentle our world will be.

  28. Sorry people it is NOT a guns fault for these tragedies. A gun cannot walk, talk or decide. It is a human being who takes these steps. Everyone in the US is being challenged for not having a job, they are angry and have no money to help themselves or their family. Once this happens mental illness takes over. Especially if they are brought up in a family environment where inconsistency of love and mentoring is absent. They will seek other avenues for attention. Unfortunately within the last couple of years it has been mass shootings.

    I have been crying all day yesterday thinking about this event and realizing I just saw my nephew, who lives in Newtown, last week. We only have “right now” folks.. You never know what tomorrow is gonna bring. I am wishing for you peace, safety and love!! xo!!

    • Virgo Ellie, I’m glad your nephew’s safe and I agree with valuing the now, absolutely. I don’t think anyone is saying it’s the guns fault, but that the availability and access to guns presents a pathway of even more exponential danger. Yes, guns are inert – which is why in effect their manufacture and distribution can be easier to control in comparison to mental illness or poor choices.

      We can say the same thing about money, it doesn’t equal greed even if it’s abuse leads to that. No one’s about to ban the freedom to trade, but should we regulate trade so abuses of power can be limited/avoided? Definitely.

      Put it this way, a mentally ill person would have less success killing in the numbers we see in mass shootings if say their only option is launch a physical attack using a hand-held weapon whether it’s a knife, blunt object or acid. I’m in the US too, we have and will again at some point, live in times of dire circumstances and pressure.

      We can’t realistically expect uniformity in the home environment even if this would be ideal. But we should fight to have our public policies vis a vis our citizenship, provide safety from potential dangers. This is far more predictable than behavior. It’s not a free pass, and the guilty should be punished, but it’s also our responsibility as a collective to limit or remove elements that allow critical events to occur to the extent they do.

    • if this young man didn’t have access to an arsenal we wouldn’t be talking about this tragedy.

      the US is alone in it’s lax gun laws, and alone in it’s astronomically high statistics on violent deaths from guns. the math is really quiet simple.

      i feel so very sorry for you that you cannot see the truth and are blinded by an overzealous love of guns over children.

      • Yes, agreed. I think the US needs to manage the gun distribution. Not ban them. I get tired of innocent competent people being controlled because of individuals who have no concept about others. It’s up to use as individuals to understand that others should be more important than ourselves which means we need to look out for others not kill them because we are angry. The US is filled with angry US citizens!

        Thank you!

        • I agree! I live in an affluent suburb and DAILY am menaced by super aggressive drivers. People driving with aggression and entitlement. I yield constantly to avoid a crash. In our community a son attacked his family with baseball bats- killed the dad. Drugs and feeling marginalized were factors. Guns would have meant five funerals instead of one. A grandmother shot and killed her grandson a few weeks later. How can we rehab and heal our families?

      • It is speculated that the young man may have a mild form of autism or other mental illness. He does not represent the average law abiding U.S. citizen at all.

        How about just keep guns away from people
        who are not certified to own them? (i.e. change laws to be more limiting) I mean how hard is that? We do that with cars.

        The problem with people who want to abolish all guns is that they assume the worst of humanity….that no one can be trusted with a gun.

        • I’m confused about your statement. It seems to me that you implies that persons with autism aren’t average law abiding citizens.

          Is that what you meant to say?

          • Autism is not a mental illness. I think it’s dangerous to conflate the two. You might as well call dyslexia a mental illness.
            There are co-morbidities, to be sure, and some are mental illnesses, but autism is not a mental illness in itself. It is a neurological disorder.

            • Sorry, bad wording on my part. I hit reply too soon before corrections. Regardless of whether he has asperger’s or mental illness, he wasn’t fit to be using a firearm. PERIOD.

              It’s also not my place to make that judgement whether asperger’s or autistic can hold jobs where firearm use is possible or necessary.

              I am merely stating that NOT everybody should have a gun.

            • Thanks for the clarification. I’m seeing some very cruel, uninformed and bigoted statements about autism because of what certain news outlets are reporting about the gunman.
              Your original statement was strikingly similar to theirs.

              Why this family felt it necessary to own a semi-automatic rifle is BEYOND me. And body amour, for goddess’ sake! Is this standard equipment for recreational gun use?

            • oh totally! My bad on that. YOu have every right to be POed.

              Why do people *need* body armor if you live in the U.S. and aren’t a soldier or police officer? I don’t get it myself.
              I also feel there are things we don’t know about the shooter’s familly. Like why that woman had the stuff to begin with. I feel like things are being left out like about the dad and the other brother too.

      • Phew.. I honestly thought I was alone on my thought. It is amazing to see how everyone is looking at the gun as the cause for yesterday and other tragedies. It burns my britches. xo!

        • i’m as liberal as i can be on so many things like i’m pro-choice, pro-living wage, etc… but i don’t believe in taking away rights from people for no good reason. I do however believe in limiting who can have a gun and how powerful that firearm is. I think the u.s. needs better health care more than it needs gun reform. It also needs better social support than what is being shown. Those are the roots of the problem. If those are improved, there will be less killings. The Swiss have more guns per capita and less killings.

          • ” taking away rights ” ? Yikes .The kids sure had their rights taken away .So who should have a gun ? And should it be used for something other than killing someone ? does it have another use that I’m not seeing .Sorry , bloody australians , we just don’t get it .

        • No, I said that above too in my own comments.

          But I agree with Fallen Angel that even tho that is so, unfortuneately society has a lot of issues and they shouldn’t be so readily avail.

    • It is not the nuclear warhead’s fault, either

      Nor the napalm

      Nor the mercury in the water

      Nor the MSG

      I don’t think guns are necessarily on “trial” here, but they are a currency of sorts–which is the issue. The swift currency of high capacity, military style weapons in the US is difficult to defend. Please someone defend that. I have yet to hear someone pose a reasonable opinion on why the average layperson, as in people (the ones who do the harm), should be allowed such easy access to weapons designed for massive carnage.

      Yes, there are other issues to address in this public safety problem. There is the mental health issue. And access to proper treatment. There is the issue of a populace that continually exposes itself to violent entertainment (although the studies run on this are inconclusive as to adverse effects).

      Personally, I find it hard to believe that constant exposure to violence wouldn’t have SOME effect but perhaps the fact that people know they are watching a show or a game is what makes the difference as opposed to growing up in a war-torn or violent society.

      At any rate, the butler is more likely to have done it than the inanimate Glock 9mm with upgraded magazine capacity. But the butler did use the unsuspecting gun he scooped up at Walmart on the way to work that day along with a pair of socks and tube of toothpaste.

  29. Yes, it IS guns. And a pretty stubborn perversion of the 2nd amendment i.e. Right to bear arms, which when it was written then later adopted, had no actual mention of guns, and was done so in perspective of the right to defend under the conditions of conflict that existed at the time. Really, this is horses and bayonets all over again.

    I’m not saying that making guns more difficult to access equates to a complete disappearance of public massacres, as cases in China have shown. Whether the motivation is retaliation, revenge, mental illness or political statement, it’s clear that a deep wound in the social psyche is expressing itself this way. This will take time to address, with issues from violence in media, increased isolation, loss of positive individual empowerment, frayed social networks and psychological distance from violent acts all coming in to play.

    Gun rights activists are quick to point out that it’s a social issue, not a gun issue. But the fact remains, access to guns ENABLES these social problems to be expressed this way. To be extremely reductive, in terms of a diet, why would you stock up on cake if you’re trying to lose weight?

    Further, guns in particular provide a less visceral experience of hurting/killing someone in comparison with a knife, mainly as the latter requires closer contact with one’s victims, and a real will to subdue another. It’s violence either way, but shooters can walk away from the scene of the crime and evade more easily if their victims are unarmed.

    Speaking personally, I grew up with guns, unavoidable if your brother’s an arms dealer. I have also in my lifetime, dodged one bullet that literally sliced thru my hair (from the brother) and taken two severely wounded personal guards to hospital on two different occasions, one for multiple stab wounds and the other for a gunshot wound to the head. It was a close up study in intent and effect.

    Lastly, I do believe this is yet another illustrative chapter in the ongoing political battle. The NRA is a trade association, I think the fact that the word TRADE is part of it should be more than enough to question their participation in lobbying for gun rights. I know part of this argument will be the war on drugs via Mexico, but still this shouldn’t deter us from protecting citizens from themselves.

    • Gee, thanks. The entire thing is heartbreaking, but there seems to be such a fear of defenselessness that once gun policy is questioned, it’s an immediate back lash. It needs to be clear that the advocacy for gun policy isn’t about nullifying the 2nd amendment completely, there ARE certain areas such as the border towns near Mexico which would put citizens in grave danger if they don’t have a means of defense.

      But does this mean guns? Does this mean a one-size fits all policy? It needs to be addressed intelligently on both federal and state levels, and where there are populations much more exposed to attack, we need to allot protections they can rely on. This needs to consider the nature of these exposures, inner city crime vs drugs across the borders, qualifying ownership based on successful license administration vs based on requirement, use and mental health, so on and so forth.

      As the saying goes, there are more deaths caused by the war on drugs vs drugs itself. I think it’s time to reframe the issue, it’s not just about gun policy, it’s about safety and security. Those conversations shouldn’t be separate at all.

  30. America just can’t let go of it’s colonial Wild West past. It still trades in that image as if it’s relevant in contemporary society. It’s about time it reframed who it is as a global citizen and do away with some of its more blatantly uncivilised and “not becoming of a 1st world nation” ideology – such as the right to own a gun. If Australia can get over its image of itself as the global bogan then the US can get over its images the global bully.

    • quit hatin’ on my country, yo, especially when right now we should all just be quiet and sending love and light to those who are dead and those who survive them

      • The search for solutions is a positive response to an unnatural situation .It’s not “hatin on ” your country .I think the guy with the gun is the one you should be worried about .

  31. i have to agree that guns are a bit of a red herring. they will not be banned outright- the market is too big and to truly do it military guns would have to be banned also. it’s a nice ideal but it is a fantasy. the culture of violence is what underlies it- guns, video games, isolation, nihilism, materialism, lack of meaningful rite-of-passage rituals, overabundance of psychotropic drugs. take away guns and you won’t have would-be shooters knifing people. you’ll have homemade bombs, homemade chemical weapons. this is not something that can be legislated away.

    • But other first world countries have all the same temptations, mental illness, DVDs, games, etc etc that America does but we don’t have these frequent shooting massacres. And we don’t subsequently have crazy homemade stuff or other methods of violence going on any worse than anywhere else in the absence of guns. The US needs to see that a change in legislation and an end to rampant gun ownership will reduce deaths and probably the easy culture of violence that accompanies it.

      No, it won’t make unicorns appear and bring peace to humankind but it will be a start to making a positive difference.

      And yes, it will take time for the US to adjust but we’re very adaptable creatures. Just offer a new iPad for every gun handed in. Seriously.

      • yeah, i’d like that to be true, and who knows, it might happen. it could be a generational thing-as the elders die off the younger more ipad susceptible ones take their place. it could happen, you’re right. i may be overly pessimistic as i live in rural california and am daily shocked by just about everything.

        i think what we need to be talking about is psychotropic drugs. all the other cultural stuff is just that, culture. doesn’t take an awkward lost teenager, who really needs a good year of a vision quest to ease the postmodern ennui, and turn him into a killing machine. brain drugs are scary, man.

  32. Serious question about gun restriction though — with the tightening of drug laws, drugs are still everywhere. Do you guys really think that laws would change that?

    And in the event of an emergency…hurricane, earthquake, totalitarian state…wouldn’t you be somewhat afraid to be without a gun?

    I feel like if guns were ilegal people would get really paranoid and purchase them illegally, a huge underground gun trade would open up. Contraband = new markets, less accountability (registration of firearms). As I said, anti-gun person here, but if we’re gonna push for that we have to look at all sides I think in order to have a strong argument.

    • yes, i’m not sure that australians quite grasp how bound up american culture and firearms are. if this country has a flashpoint they are it. clearly if we haven’t yet even significantly tightened regulations after what, 37 school shootings in the last 20 years, the impetuous is not there. the nra etc is often painted as extremist but they are much more representative than i at least as a anti-gun person would like to admit. the paranoia runs deep and absolutely, the back market would explode. it may be morally wrong and maddening but that’s the framework we have to work within.

      • Thanks for that, and yes, we probably don’t ‘get’ the fear factor. I just think one has to earn the right to bear arms, as an individual and perhaps things can change from the ground up by making it more difficult to get guns in the first place. No one is going to tackle the NRA, not even the prez. I had to sit an exam for an air rifle..it’s just so sad

    • Why on earth do you need a freakin’ gun in an earthquake or a hurricane!!!?

      Look at both sides? yeah right….. and wait for the next massacre.

        • One of the starkest differences in our approach to guns is that some Americans claim they feel less safe without a gun whereas Australians tend to feel less safe if somebody has a gun. This idea that you need to protect yourself by shooting people is really hard to accept. The thought that some people are so crazy that the only way to deal with them is shoot them? Makes the shooter look equally as bloody nuts.

          I listened to Eric Francis the other day, he mentioned his growing unease as he’s watched Ixion and Pholus slowly come into conjunction. Something about complete lack of personal or moral restraint. hmmm

          • Funny that Link.. it’s like what my Scorp Rising Cancer GF says about “black vs white” neighborhoods. There’s a lot of danger perceived when people go thru African American neighborhoods here or the “hood” so to speak but the truth is, plenty of African Americans feel nervous when they’re driving/working thru a predominantly white area.

            In fact, they have a consciousness of potentially being accused for a crime or wrong doing to such a point where they can’t relax in that environment. Interesting how things contrast that way.

            • Actually all colors are being scrutinized. I was in line at the airport last w/e standing with a girl in front of me who liked like she came from the “hood”.. she is white. The TSA agent was giving her such a hard time. This girl had a bit a “tude” but I was standing right behind her and the TSA agent just waved me thru without hesitation. It has nothing to do with color. It has to do with attitude, appearance and responses. Anyone in authority will pick up on it quickly to react if something happens. You cannot look down on authority.. bottomline! They will call you on it.

              xo!!

            • Well, I was actually pointing out that we often don’t realize that the dangers we perceive are also being perceived of us. Not authority per se, but perception entrenchment and how people navigate their lives around their understanding of that.

              For instance, I have an African American GF whose grandson goes to a predominantly caucasian school – very happily as she says. However, she felt it necessary to talk to him about being conscious of dating in that community, and the potential danger of being accused of the worse should anything go slightly awry.

              But you could also take that example and switch socio-economic status for color. I think it’s important to pause and go beyond the surface.

            • “It has nothing to do with color.”

              I was so incensed when I read this last night that I was shaking. I have never read anything so callously ignorant on this site before. People are profiled on the basis of both race and perceived class, the fact that the latter happens does not argue against the former. The fact that people of colour are stopped and searched/ questioned at hugely increased rates compared to white people regardless of class has been established beyond doubt, it isn’t a matter of opinion, it is simple fact. You are blinded by privilege, luxuriating in your own white safety and this kind of ignorance has consequences for other people, it is what allows the persecution of difference to continue.

              I never thought I’d read this kind of stuff here, it’s not usally a place where the very worst of social conservatism is aired.

    • Well here I don’t agree … the tightening of drug laws means that drugs are NOT everywhere. Sure they are available, but you have to search for them and it’s not as easy as it sounds. I wouldn’t have a clue where to buy drugs these days (not that I’d want to). Plus they are not socially acceptable – perhaps in certain social groups – but not as a norm.

      I think tightening gun laws would be an incredibly efficient way to reduce gun related violence. In Australia you rarely here of these kinds of crimes anymore because our gun policies are very strict. Crime groups may purchase weapons on the black market, but strict gun laws allow the police to confiscate them on the spot without any stupid “freedom to shoot people” amendments making that job impossible. Eventually it would lead to overall less guns out there in the community and within a few generations would become as frowned upon as other illegal activities are now – like taking drugs, or driving drunk, or smoking.

        • Yeah, in California it’s ridiculous. People hustling all the time on the downlow…prostitution, drugs, protection, gang stuff. All over the streets. And not even just in bad areas! Everywhere.

          Also drugs here aren’t just a low-brow thing; the Valley and LA both have huuuuuggggeeeee drug culture in the highest echelons of society, widespread in start-up/entrepreneurial and finance culture. Back in the day I used to party with CEOs and they were worse than college kids.

      • I know that it’s more strict in Australia and I think that’s a good thing, but I also think that because it has been that way for a loooong time it’s ingrained in the culture. Unfortunately it’s the opposite here. It would be really hard to take guns away, both the left and right have a hissy fit; left would get all conspiracy theories about totalitarian states, right would cry about freedom and rights.

        • But isn’t that what this whole shift in consciousness is about ? That it’s going to take some massively traumatic events to get the whole planet to return to something more tenable .
          Change can’t come unless you can imagine it .

      • I agree. The position of the law is a profound statement to society about what is and what is not acceptable. If something is illegal, it’s a statement to society that this behaviour is wrong and wont be tolerated. Then you deal with the enforcement of the law, understanding that no law can be perfectly enforced.

        This is why it is so hard to change the situation in the US, because unlike anywhere else as far as I know, there is a law that in effect broadcasts to society that it is desirable to have a gun. And because it’s a constitutional law, the social statement is so, so strongly made. So any subsidiary laws around gun control sit in opposition to the constitutional right, rather than in harmony with it. But nonetheless, the US has to legislate to control gun availability and place limitations on the second amendment, the basis for which has long gone.

        I was very disappointed to hear Obama endorse the right to bear arms on the basis that Americans like hunting. Even such a broad endorsement of blood sports is pretty appalling, imo.

        I was almost shot once, walking in the woods in France, which are open to both walkers and deer hunters. I found out later that people are ‘accidentally’ killed each year because of this. Even to this day, I can still feel the vibrations of the air as the bullet just missed. I feel for the kids at Sandy Hook. Absolutely traumatising.

    • Nope!! Laws will create MORE issues! Once you try and control situations it gets out of control.

      I think to your point about buying guns because of fear is a big concern. People are buying them and don’t know how to use them or store them. I feel that if anyone wants to buy a gun they need to pass a test and I mean a military test. If they can’t pass it.. no gun-ee. Knives included.

      xo!

      • I’m sorry I don’t agree with that at all. Laws DO initially create some havoc in the beginning, but didn’t we go through the same thing with smoking? Like I said before, it’s important to legislate taking into account different situations/populations.

        I’m not anti-gun. I can’t be having gone through two almost home invasions, thwarting a robbery and no less than 9 coup d’etats. I was taught to use hand guns, rifles and yes, even an AK. Do I own one now? No, I don’t and I don’t need to. Because the RISK of being harmed by having it on hand, is greater than the general HAZARD that would merit that.

        I think that beyond rights, we also need to assess the risks vs hazards of gun availability, access and ownership. What other mechanism but the law would allow us to address that with some uniformity and expectation of compliance? It’s not like we don’t have any reason to with enough mass shootings as it, and it’s not like we haven’t seen other developed nations implement this successfully. As well as having seen the address other violent issues such as glassing, anthrax etc.

        We need to redefine what freedom means to us, and not react out of fear of a “nanny state”. I’m saying we need to be preventive, NOT just defensive. And we need to pause for a minute from how tightly we grasp that right, and find additional solutions – not just a single piece of legislation, but addressing the issues from each single contributory aspect i.e. social, economic, etc.

        It can’t be done in a day, it won’t be quick and it won’t be painless. But surely as desensitized as we’re seeing our society become to violence and bullying, we should at the very least, limit the tools with which they perpetuate that.

        I’m not sure what a military test entails – but it should definitely involve a mental health and certification of storage test.

        • Thank you for sharing your story…if someone who has been robbed and broken into still has CHOSEN to not have guns I think you are a great example for what the future could be like. And yes, we need to think in terms of POSSIBILITY not likelihood. Honestly I am ignorant in regards to Australian politics but I think some of the problem in the US is that if anything happens it happens SO…SLOWLY…we are conditioned just to accept it and fight anyway but not get our hopes up.

          At the same time, at the state level things sometimes move fast. The US is united, but I have felt more alienated and bizarre in certain parts of the US than I have in foreign countries where I did not speak the language.

          • Of course we don’t choose to have guns. Are you happy killing someone who has broken into your house? I’m not and I think you will find that the majority of Australians are not. That is a major difference between your society and ours. If someone breaks into my house when I’m in it, hell yes, it would be terrifying, and it would be sad if they took all my stuff, but it’s just terror and stuff. I’m not taking someone else’s life to protect my stuff. I’m not having a gun in my house ever for any reason. If someone needs my stuff that bad, they are welcome to it, and if they are going to break in in order to rape and kill me, well, I doubt a gun would really diffuse that situation either, given that I would probably be asleep. meanwhile, my 9 year old daughter, who thinks that he mum is tops, might get the idea that violence is acceptable and that shooting someone is a just recrimination – IF i had a gun in the house.

            This forum today is making me sad, cross, ecstatically happy I don’t live in the US, and comprehending why I often have a lot of trouble understanding many Americans I have met. The interpretation of what freedom and liberty really mean are frightening to me, and strongly reflected in America’s international policies, which are as frightful as many of the arguments on this site. Ciao.

            • No, but…I agree.

              I grew up in a house with guns, in my apartment I choose not to have one. The idea has never even crossed my mind! I have never even thought about purchasing a gun, I am not paranoid about my safety, and I am with you…if it happens, it happens and a gun isn’t going to really help anything.

              But my whole reason for commenting so much in this thread is to try and show people that its understanding the other side and showing understanding, intellect, respect, and compassion that will bring someone opposed to you to the correct side. Being staunch-ly anything only creates divisiveness.

              And for the record noone I personally know that is in my age bracket (say…20-35) here in CA has a gun. And they are all anti-guns, without question and therefore more than me.

              I guess I want others to know that the US is not a country in agreement, different regions hold completely different beliefs…

        • Re: the slowness of laws, Rache – I have to say that I don’t perceive it to be as slow as maybe other people think. This probably has to do with my being a foreigner and a naturalized US citizen. In my experience it can sometimes be difficult to have expectations in terms of time when comparing the speed with which laws are implemented from country to country.

          Some countries are not as diverse as the US, some have racial diversity but religious homogeny, some are less populous, so on and so forth. The US has, in my view, a long and proud history of “making Americans”, usually driven by opportunity. I don’t like a lot of things about this country but in terms of that, I can’t knock it. Though this was probably more so true before than now.

          But my point is despite stubborn delays on key issues such as gay marriage, climate, etc., there still is a representative and functioning government which offers the chance to exercise citizenship for those who will. We still, despite these horrific instances, enjoy a level of safety and security many other countries don’t.

          It’s disappointing that in the mentioned issues we’re backward, however the conversations, disagreements and emerging situations demonstrate our freedom of speech is alive and well. The change is not just government but also the voice of the people.

          What are we saying? How are we saying it? What do we think now? The economic uncertainty has certainly delivered us to being stripped of the ennui of comfort, and we got left with a lot of time/space to look at our values.

          I grew up under a dictatorship that lasted 20 years, they had a SINGLE OFFICIAL historian used for all the school text books and the media was rigged. Everything from newspapers to literature to pop culture. Conditioning? Hardcore. But people wake up from that kind of slumber because we can’t inherently ignore what’s right or wrong.

          And NONE OF US are exempt from change.

        • Oh and as for my choosing not to have a gun, thanks. The robberies were foiled using an uber loud sound alarm you could hear down the street, the home invasions via the loyalty of the personal guards who put themselves in danger on our behalf. One of them remains employed for life with our family, the other chose to leave and pursue another career.

          I’m sharing this to say that every time I’d run those experiences in my mind, I still couldn’t see how MY/OUR being equipped with a gun would have changed anything. Were the home invasions successful, it would have been done during our most unguarded moments. In fact, one of the invasions was the master plan of a second personal guard. You can imagine in that situation, we’d actually approved their weaponry not realizing we would be betrayed by one of them.

          This left me with a hyper awareness of my surroundings and people. Moving here, I was struck by how carefree and sometimes how almost oblivious people are in their daily lives. I don’t see the point of owning a gun if I were to do the same thing and just walk around without studying where I am, who’s around me. Personal protection isn’t just about arms, but also alertness, avoidance and yes, intuition.

          I’ve heard a few people discuss gun ownership (not here) as if it were a free pass to allow this care free state, in fact as if the presence of arms would be enough to compensate for the absence of quick thinking, lack of strategy and tactics in a critical situation.

          Even worse, in a struggle your own weapon can be used against you, if you ended up in a position to be disarmed. Given my personal situation – and I admit most people’s in relatively safe areas, the risk isn’t worth it.

          Would I ever own a gun? If I lived in a war torn area, absolutely. If I had to hunt for food because all the stores got hit by the apocalypse, sure. In situations other than war, a weapon should be an addendum to a defensive mindset, not the main feature.

          • Not exactly the same, since they’re also trained in other defensive arts. There’s a level of security expertise there that would likely not be as common to the regular person.

            In our case, we had to hire as it was during a time of increasing kidnap for ransom situations for Chinese families, also we used them for the business.

            • I am not anti-gun for me it really depends where you live. I know two American families here in Australia who moved here after home invasions. (One of the men never actually told his wife what happened to him that night as it was so terrifying that he couldn’t bring himself to share it – just the next day “Guess what? We’re going to live overseas!”). One friend had two sets of family friends who didn’t believe in guns and who lived somewhat near the Mexican border. They were all killed in home invasions.
              Nonetheless I do consider hiring someone with a gun to be similar to having one myself. It’s just someone else holding your gun. We had guards where I lived in south america but all of us prayed never to have to use those bloody guns.
              A German Shepherd and two street dogs (loyal to the extreme & hardened by life) were my preferred weapons of defence though!

  33. Port Arthur massacre was enough to see the gun control laws in Australia tightened with an amnesty to illegal guns and a toughening on automatic weapons. This is a FIRST step. NO ONE needs an assault weapon. Less guns = less shootings. I’m so upset and angry that A- such a thing could possibly cross someones mind and B- That he had EASY access to carry out such an atrocity and C- Not even his parents had the balls to nip the signs in the bud and D- NO one has the balls to take on the pro gun fuckwits. Sorry for the rant but it REALLY angers me that these events happen again and again

  34. It isn’t just guns. Just today, some maniac in China slashed 22 kids with a knife, fortunately none were killed. I checked the news and there have been many recent knife and axe (!!) mass murders like this recently. But we don’t hear about them.

    It is at times like this, I recall the response after the shooting at the Amish School in Pennsylvania. It is worth revisiting, to see how the families healed the community through forgiveness.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_school_shooting

    • Yes but if he had a gun all 22 of them would have been killed. Absolutely the first thing America needs to do is reform its policy on gun ownership and Obama is the guy to do it – no republican ever will. It was the first and only good act by the Howard government in Australia in my – and many other’s – opinion.

        • I was going to post the exact thing. The only thing I respect John Howard for are the gun control measures brought in, in response to the Port Arthur massacre.
          Peace to all those who have been impacted by this tragedy.
          And Peace to the world.

          • Yes. That is the ONLY thing John Howard EVER did I agree with!!

            We had one massacre here in Port Arthur, and the governmental response was to change the firearms ownership laws to be very much stricter, and to impose a temporary amnesty so that all firearms which did not comply with the new laws could be handed in without penalty. He did this is the wake of the massacre, when the outpouring of grief was very large – and people responded by handing in their weapons.

            And we haven’t had a recurrence here. And even if you scaled our population up to the US and compared the two countries, or actually compared the US to any country on earth not currently at war, you will find that the most number of gun deaths per head of population occurs in the US regardless of whatever other parameters you wish to put on it or however which way you choose to slant it.

            You should NOT have the right to bear arms. That is pathetic, a complete misinterpretation of what liberty means, and dates back from a nasty and archaic time in America’s history which, if I was American, I would much rather put behind me.

            Guns do not make you safe. A civil society makes you safe. Having a good and close community makes you safe. Caring for other people makes you safe. Guns have no place anywhere where people live. No civil society can ever be founded on fear and violence, and a house with a gun in it is not a house where people who truly care about their own society reside.

        • I am with you Charles. It doesn’t make sense when humans are the ones who make the decision not the gun. They will find any other avenue to conduct destruction because they don’t have any comment sense. Whether it’s mental illness or dysfunctional society rules. It’s up the country to work with the people to build strength. Not medicatons and laws. It doesn’t work.

          I don’t encourage gun ownership either but obviously there is something wrong with the US if we continue to deal with these terrorist attacks now at the small scope of our lives. World Trade Center to now children. WTHeck!!

          Just saying… it honestly is political unfortunately.

          • Human with gun in hand as opposed to human with no gun available ; regardless of the decision – the outcome is somewhat predictable .

        • The goal of trying to affect or control the behaviour of people at heir worst IS impossible.

          The effort to control guns is a saner approach, with an identifiable target, GUNS, not the myriad of the human experience and the individuals for which no one has an explanation that will encompass all.

        • I think your arguments are nonsensical. Try killing 22 people with a knife the next time you feel cross and see how quickly someone disarms you or the police turn up and stop you. It takes time and effort to kill 22 people with a knife, and there will be so many opportunities for people to escape, because to kill them with a knife you will have to chase them down and grab them. It takes approximately 22 seconds to kill 22 people with a gun and you wouldn’t even have to come very close to them. I’m sorry, I have to leave this forum because some of the comments in here are making me feel physically ill. I will come back when there is a topic that doesn’t make me want to cry violently on behalf of all those small souls who never had a chance, because the guy was carrying a gun, and not a knife.

  35. One of the most disturbing effects of the Batman killings were that sales of firearms in the area quadrupled over the following few weeks. America has a gun miasm. There have been many studies showing that the banning of firearms and the enforcement of these bans will basically cut the death toll of these events and others by 95%. Maybe this is a countries karma for being the exporter of 80 % of the worlds weapons of war. Yes 80% of global arms sales originate in the US.
    What a terrible state this country is in.

    • That’s the cruel irony of horrid massacres like this – people buy firearms to protect themselves from people with firearms. “Oh but we’re not crazy like those people who shoot people.” Really? So you’re just buying it to wave around threateningly if the moment calls for it, right?

      We had guns as a kid (here in Oz) because my father was a sports shooter. (This was pre-gun banning.) I always thought that I’d grab one of the guns if anyone broke into the house. Me, a pacifist, but if the gun was there and if I had to protect myself…

      That’s the way the human mind works. You use what’s available to you. No guns around, no one gets shot. Kind of super logical. Get rid of the guns. Simple. (Then as someone said above, you can start to tackle the myriad other issues that affect the lonely, depressed, isolated, ill, etc.)

  36. IMO it’s not so much guns as it is isolation.

    My mom was going on about “dads not in the picture, videogames for hours every day, bullies…” and I was like YEAH but all of those things divide down into isolation! From other people, from feeling like they can trust and be open with others.

    We need more counseling and mentors in schools, more mental health services, more places we can go just to talk without HAVING to PAY outrageous amounts of money.

        • I’ve been dx’d Asperger’s and “Auditory Processing Disorder” when I was a kid, my dad has Asperger’s and sister is same as me with the additional slow response problem…despite looking like a regular person and getting excellent grades, social situations through high school were HELL (especially middle school). I could not read people, was painfully shy, presented younger than my age, people thought I was odd and shunned me. Beyond this my parents did not know how to express empathy either, so I felt completely alone.

          This sounds superficial and lame but I am so thankful to look the way I do, because if I did not I would not have gotten so many chances later in life of people wanting to know me just because. Simultaneously this led to me being taken advantage of around 17-21 because I so badly want to be accepted.

          I feel like — because of the weird situation I went through growing up and evolving into a person with too much empathy but having none on the surface before — I want to NOT DEFEND these Aspergers types that do these horrific things (not. at. all!) but give people an understanding of what is going through their heads, maybe in the tradition of the psych R.D. Laing who tried to give people a feel for the logical progression of the thoughts of a schizophrenic. Senseless crime is statistically committed by people with antisocial personality or Asperger’s traits…people with Aspergers have to learn empathy in a way, it is very hard to explain. And if they see no reason to, if noone gives them empathy, then it is just a time bomb.

          The irony is that once they learn this and learn to trust, all the empathy they held inside for years comes pouring out. They have feelings, they just cannot interpret them. They need permission and acceptance. The best example I can give is the Dutch fairytale of the boy plugging the holes in the dike…working so hard to keep the water from coming in, but inevitably it is going to burst. [Irony: most of the Asperger’s dx’d peeps I know are of Dutch ancestry].

          One of the things I hope to do in life is outreach for kids diagnosed…rhythmic activity can provide an outlet to all the pent up energy (seriously, google “spinning Asperger’s”, i dont know why but we love spinning/repetitive behavior). If I didn’t have dance and horse riding I would have gone mad for real ages ago. Everyone needs an outlet, these personalities need a specific kind.

          • Yep, that’s me. Interesting about the Dutch ancestry; I definitely am that. I beat myself up for many years because I couldn’t read people’s intention or motivation, even though they were staring me in the face. I tested as having a high IQ yet was told I must be mentally retarded because I was weird, slow on the uptake, and didn’t get it. When I was 22 I lost my two children, bullied out of them by my parents and a friend of my Mother’s, having been thrown onto the streets. I still have issues reading situations and people but I’m so good at acting the part that its not as much of an issue. Plus I’m middle aged and I just don’t give a crap what other people think.

            Sorry to go off topic, and I’ve been crying for two days over it. Well regulated is my mantra of late!

    • No! It IS guns! If someone’s isolated but didn’t have access to those weapons it would be an entirely different scenario!

      • I dunno. I feel torn because even if guns were banned they would still be a black market commodity; the ban on drugs hasn’t done shit except for make people scramble to buy them on the downlow. People would become more paranoid about not being armed when thug types with connections to getting guns were armed. It’s not like making guns illegal is just going to make them go away, but I will concede that in this boy’s case — with the fact that he did not have social skills — he could have been curbed.

        Torn on it.

      • Guns do not walk, talk or decide. Sorry. It’s a human being that picks it up, walks with it and decides to shoot it. The thinking process in the US is damaged from environmental reasons.

      • Exactly, he pulled the trigger because he must have been in an awfull dark place. But guns do make it a lot easier to kill and everybody, like it or not does have some darkness.

    • First ban guns, mental illness will always be present and isolation is endemic in western countries.
      A recent study of 2 groups , 1 in Chicago one in London. 20 disadvantaged borderline teens are followed for 10 years. The results. 15 of the 20 from Chicago had been shot, had shot someone or had been involved in a death caused by a handgun. The London group, not one.
      Hellooo !

      • Mental illness will always be present, but you gotta admit that until recently we didn’t see any of this kind of behavior. When you look at the wiki for school shootings they are all retaliation and targeted at specific people…Columbine-esque shootings that are senseless and random are a modern phenomenon.

        It seems that lot of the senseless violence really started to happen in the 60s and beyond, before that crimes were for the most part connected to theft, rape, murder for a reason — granted, none of these were good reasons but they are REASONS. This dude had no reason except to let out rage and contribute to senselessness in a world that did not make sense to him.

        But yes, guns are it. They should be banned and taken from anyone found with them, and they should be punished more severely than drugs. But America needs to get its mental health services together, it is getting worse, and fast.

      • Exactly .Just take the guns out of the equation . It’s a good start .Then stop pumping the kids brains full of chemicals / anti-depressants ( depression suppressde by chemical medicine always ends up errupting in rage ).

    • Yes! And boys /youbg men (and our girls!) needpositive adventures and rites of passage that celebrate their energy and drive in good ways- not parents pressured to medicate them into conformity.

      Parents need help with sharing power and not trying to control /raise kids with shame and blame.

      • I so agree! I mean, how is Freud such a HUGE historical figure and so respected, but repression (and its counterpart, ACTING OUT) only gets more extreme with each generation…

  37. there is no rational or astrological explanation for the victims…this is an overwhelming pain of human suffering on a scale the individual comprehends (no tragedy of war here). there are no words, no understanding of motive, no justification of cause…simply horrific.

            • Is interesting to note as well that a Capricorn Moon person would have a “rigid” mother as that is classic for Saturn ruled Moon.

              I have a Cap Moon and double Leo Mother was not terribly rigid (her father was), but she had a terrible temper when I was growing up and I remember longing to here her say she loved me but that didn’t come until many years later until she did alot of healing work herself.

            • This poor shooter felt unloved and he killed the very childhood of others that it would appear he did not have. His mother may have been rigid perhaps but she cared for other children but not him maybe…hmm?

              So sad.

            • See, with my Cap Moon I have Venus opposite Neptune so I would kill myself before I killed anyone else.

            • whoa. i will never complain about a transit again. that’s a lot of heavy, heavy stuff. poor kid.

            • Yeah, natal Moon conjunct natal NN and when trans Moon and Pluto got there, well, with that NN he went there…

            • The guns are not the problem…the human issues that need to be healed are otherwise a person wouldn’t even need to pick one up if it was right there in front of them..

            • When my girls were little, I remember getting the belt and I was going to whip them. I felt the pull of that dark abyss. But suddenly, I saw in my two girls, myself and my sister and a light bulb went off that I could destroy. i could destroy them and so in anguishI went and layed on my bed and asked God to help me. To get this poison out of me. Somewhere, we have to break the chain.

            • thank you for not taking whatever your rage was out on your children sweet pea. you are a better person for it and the world is a much better place. love to you and thank you for your honesty.

            • Yes, one has to
              listen to the voice in the back of their head, the conscience that says this is wrong..in that moment there is a choice. Yes, for this reason, my daugher haas never layed one hand on my grandaughter. My ex husband never spanked the girls either. He felt it was barbaric. And he’s Iranian lol 😉
              what stereotypes we have…

  38. A long, long time ago, beings came to the Earth who were warriors of both good and evil…We are still healing the remanants of wars that began elsewhere, the violence.

    But those beings came to the Earth to rejuevenate their electromagnetics as the Earth was of a Paradise (Edon) Vibration away from the Central Sun. The Earth became overloaded and Her light was cast downward esp as some wanted to take Her power as their own. Humanity was caught in the middle of the struggle of the gods and is actually innocent but alll of these issues within each of us are what need to be healed. I share this brief story as to hopefully make sense to those who are perplexed.

    Teacher said the Earth is in a huge therapy session.

    • Thanks Sweetpea.. You have summed it all up pretty well me thinks.. And, it’s onyl in eeing the world through the eyes of the Mystic or the Poet.. And, onyl then do we see what’s really going on in this world.. We we are all here for our ongoing learning & growth etc et al….

  39. America needs to do something about their stupid guns. How many more deaths before they do something. I cant watch it on TV its too much. God rest their poor little souls.

  40. Ban guns or toughen gun laws to make it very difficult and inconvenient to own guns.Obama needs to make the change. He NEEDS to step up, despite whatever some ye olde constitutional law states. I’m sure there’s a lot of crap in the constitution that isn’t remotely relevant any more. Evolve.

    What I hated was a heading that said this was one of the worst school shootings in the US – like school shootings have their own sub-genre of massacre. Just so so so horrid. And all this innocence lost for what? There wasn’t even any great political message of act of vengeance involved. Not that that would ever justify murder, of course. But killing in the name of nothing??I find it all so upsetting and utterly senseless. Poor, poor children and teachers.

    • Perhaps these kinder deaths will help the big boy governments (US, Isreal, Iran, etc) who base their territorial importance on ego and fear…

      Perhaps they will teach them to share a bit, eh?

    • With my family living in Newtown CT and me just seeing my 6 year nephew last week this is devastating. It is not the guns fault for this tragedy. Obama needs to build an ecoomony and let us speak the word of God. End of story.

        • Actually, I don’t even think its necessarily crazy people that kill… I think it’s often just the people who happen to have a gun or several on hand & who are highly emotionally charged, in the throws of a fit of overwhelming jealousy or rage or some other ‘larger than life, in that moment’ triggered issue…

          The general population just should NOT have access to weaponry, especially during such potentially, violently r/evolutionary Astro.

          That’s what’s fuqing crazy!!!

      • This is completely absurd, excusing moral and mental weakness and murder because of a poor economy.

        It’s not the gun’s fault. Honestly. How stupid.

        • I’m sorry, but it IS the guns’ fault and I agree with Mitra. Guns are evil. There is no reason for them to exist. The only thing they are for is killing. Why anybody who is not a farmer would have one in their house is totally and utterly beyond me, and nothing anybody says will convince me otherwise.

          People have always been angry, mad and irrational. The difference is that when armed with a knife or a spear or a broken bottle or a sling-short or a catapult or a bucket of hot oil or even a bottle of acid there is a finite amount of damage you can do to those around you. With a gun, the possibilities are boundless.

          That is a weak, pathetic, dreadful argument, that it is the economy. You’ve made me very cross, I am sorry, I rarely say directly what i mean in here. People will lose their marbles over just about everything. The difference is, what is to hand to help them disperse their anger. Gee, if it’s a semi-automatic weapon that happens to be in their house, and there are some innocent people who just happen to be nearby, I wonder what will happen. Uh, I don’t know, but perhaps we could look to America for an example of what might happen when personal pressures meet abso-fuqing-lutely stupid gun laws.

          The economy. Don’t belittle those lives lost.

          • Thank you, Seabird. Guns, bombs, all sorts of ridiculously nasty weapons were invented by the military to cause maximum carnage. They should never be in circulation outside of the armed forces/ law enforcement/ specialist ppl. The economy has nothing to do with this. Unhinged ppl with no guns couldn’t have done this.

            I’m sorry, Virgo Ellie, but regardless of what else is going on in the US (and yes, it is very messed up at the moment), a gun ultimately killed these innocents.

          • I know how you feel, Seabird. It is hard to speak out but I just cannot get my head around anyone trying to justify needing a weapon that is only designed for killing, unless as you say they are a farmer or for saying the mental health system, President, economy or lack of religious worship are to blame for this incident.

            And what you have said is already emerging from the investigations. The guy went to a school with which neither he nor his family had any association, shot his way through the security system and simply obliterated anyone who got in his way. He knew he could do this because of his weaponry. No child or adult could defend themselves against such an onslaught. Armed with something less, he could well have been disarmed by the several adults who went to intervene and probably would not have even gone to the school or gained entry.

            His mother liked shooting as a sport and so her son grew familiar with guns. Well, FFS, take up another hobby.

  41. Did you see the guns he had? A bloody great semi-automatic, A Glock pistol and another pistol, plus a bullet proof vest. They were his mum’s apparently.

    Unless you are a member of the Army, why are people allowed to own these weapons of carnage?

    • Because of the fearful fuq ups who say we need weapons to protect ourselves…Like the insurance industry…”Oh, be careful…you may get in an accident”…

    • The NRA or National Rifle Association gun lobby in the U.S. (RE: a cabal of weapon’s manufacturers including Smith & Wesson, Bushmaster Firearms Intl.) was created by an incredibly powerful, multibillion dollar military and civilian gun and ammunition industry.

      Despite misleading civilian banter centering on supposed violations of constitutional rights, an old chestnut deliberately foisted to the forefront of public discourse garnering the most press, – make no mistake – theirs is the longest-running and most successful PR campaign by an industry to ensure that their ‘product’ has a never-ending market demand in the most powerful retail consumer and government defense market on the planet.

      The firearms industry, which comprises a great share of private and publicly owned stock, has honed a well-rehearsed script that publicly grounds its retail and wholesale brand in fabricated reverence for the American Revolutionary War and independence from colonial overseers, while less publicly though much more forcefully, relies upon and funnels hundreds of millions of dollars into perpetuating the most incendiary and antagonistic ‘time-honored’ fears of an ethnic majority suffering sociocultural/economic/political marginalization.

      What seems very apparent is that the continual spin of an ethnic majority being usurped, or discontent following diminished income for the middle/working-class, or fears of crime rate spikes are constantly fed to us as acceptable reasons for repeatedly destroying legislation for even 5-day background checks or bans on assault rifles or rolling back centuries-old legislation on concealed weapons being allowed in churches or schools in certain states or granting mental health facilities larger budgets and greater control over patients.

      Behind voter fear or apathy, or politicians being bought and sold is a very old, very effective, multimillion, even multibillion dollar machine that continues to have astronomical annual revenues and is shameless enough to hold their annual lobbyist meetings near the site of these tragedies to demonstrate their political strength.

      I’m grieving for these families and the state of our planet. I know it’s going to take an international effort to rid ourselves of this complex cancer, but I’m willing to join others in fighting the good fight and pleading for sanity as long as it takes.

      Also, came across an online article from October 2012 casually giving consumer advice on buying stock in gun companies with the byline, “Top market analyst makes predictions based on growing unrest”.

      I appreciate the post MM!

      • Beautifully strong and erudite and insightful post, Astraea. Thank you.

        I have a 6yo daughter. When I saw the news yesterday I just wept and wept. I cannot imagine the horror those children and their families must have gone through and be going through. And those poor kids who survived too – it will change their lives forever.

        I just do not understand why people keep falling for the hideous arguments against gun control. As you say, it’s a cruel and violent attack on people’s right to live without fear in their lives, dressed up the OPPOSITE way i.e. you need a gun to protect yourself and live happily and peaceably! My god, what an awful state society must be in if people actually believe that nonsense. Maybe the Zap Zone will enable the ‘silent majority’ to rise up and get some action on gun control? I live in hope, but I also think that Americans must be just so dazed and confused by all the lies and rubbish from the NRA and their mates by now, that no sensible debate can take place, especially in the aftermath of horrors like this one.

      • Yes. I wish this cabal nonsense was actually nonsense but it’s true and very publicly so. Like a deadly play ground bully, the NRA. My personal mission is to take them down;) via law and order of course. New laws. New regulations.

  42. I haven’t watched tv in weeks but did see this on video on line. The poor little children…Just makes me cry more.

    If only peeps knew how to take care of their karma and that they were born into a situation for a reason (the shooter had issues with Mom I believe and was her kinder class?) perhaps peeps could learn to manage it and would not take it out on others.

    We can take solace of healiing of such things thru deeper spiritual avenues and that death is not real but the drama is while we’re in it or seems to be. It sucks..x

    • Interesting, I wonder what the real deal/issue was there?!

      My mother was a teacher of reception, yr 1 & 2 (5 & 6yr olds) and it was just a couple of days ago that I found myself, wondering what happened to ALL my/our favourite toys & remembering that mum would virtually take them, still warm from our hands, to school for the kids in her classroom. It was probably an admirable thing to do, y’know space clearing, good feng shui etc, but re: some of the more sentimental things, it may have been nice to have the option to keep them to hand down.

      Regardless, It was never lost on me, how very important each of those children were to her & she would spend hours & hours, over years & years, pouring over lesson plans etc, being sure to cater to every child’s individual needs. She knew their energy/Astro intimately without ever even needing to do their charts (which she would do only on occasion).
      Her dedication to each & every one of them was beyond compare… & yet she always seemed to draw a blank when asked about us (my brother & I). We really weren’t ever her focus.

      She was truly an amazing & dedicated teacher whom everyone respected & adored, even us.
      But I do wonder at times how other people cope/d with such absent parent situations.. Particularly when one keeps hearing “how amazing she is with the children!”… Everyone else’s that is.

      Perhaps in this situation, it was as simple as the shooter knowing how dedicated she was to her class/school.

      Such a shattering event regardless. And I couldn’t think of a worse time to have loose gun control, than during Uranus square Pluto!

      • Just this weekend I was reminiscing on my teaching days.

        I didn’t have any children and was commenting that I don’t know how teachers juggle parenthood with their professional demands.

        The answer is many of them don’t and unless they are superhuman something has to give.

        Teaching can be all consuming and demanding on so many levels. I have long felt for the children who have teachers for parents .It is no doubt a less than ideal situation for many who have travelled that path.

        This was obviously a sacrifice you had no say in and yet no doubt on some level this was a pattern you needed to deal with. So much of our adult life is spent unravelling those childhood issues. You seem to be coming to terms with the crux of the set up.

        The most difficult challenge is not to take it personally.You seem to be very aware and able to understand the reasons. Perhaps you will soon fully forgive.

        On the up side, you were probably left to your own devises and are very much an independent person.

        May your Xmas be coloured with the joy of unconditional love! You deserve!

      • Hi anon.
        I am not going to comment here (as such) on the Sandy Hook tragedy – except that it IS a tragedy –
        I understand what you mean about the parent who is so great with others except you (we – as offspring ) seem to constantly , literally over-looked. I too struggled with an emotionally absent / detached / uninvolved parent(s). All other life details aside,my parents were heavily air-influenced *especially* my mother. No wonder I felt like I was a “fish out of water” when growing up, out of water like in a desert, living in a house of emotional robots all concerned with big pictures – or big family issues of course – and ideas, etc not personal, loving attention (as a general rule).

        reading about the aqua asc typical traits in a parent helped with recognising that I needed to not ‘blame’ as such but somehow come to terms that it’s not me. it’s them. and find the love, sensitivity and affection I (still) need from others, not at home.
        lol hence moon in cold cap, pluto on IC in my chart?! who knows. Pi xxoo

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