The Lilith Dance

Wow does Natalie Portman have perfect astro to play the Black Swan role or WHAT?

Get this: She has Lilith in Scorpio Rising. Exact.

Check the Lilith category for more on why that is so relevant.

But here is the short version:

In mythology, Lilith is the first wife of Adam, before Eve. She was demonized. Literally. Is still seen as the symbol of the ‘outsider’ woman:

“Lilith embodies the presence of an archaic form of feminine strength that ignores any patriarchal discourse of power and dominance and allies itself with those forces that affirm life itself.”

In The Narnia Chronicles, C.S Lewis makes a massive point of distinguishing the Daughters of Eve from the Daughters of the Other One. There are a couple of really strong Lilith archetypes in there as well. She pops up all over the place.

You can have HEAPS of fun comparing your Lilith placement with that of your Moon. Is there a forbidden flavor to the free expression of your Lilith whilst you over-do the Moon? If you date women, are you scared of but drawn to your Lilith? Trawl the Lilith category for more.

The link to Black Swan? It’s all about Swan Like which has the ultimate Lilith style plot – i saw it when i was a child but there was a White/Good/Virginal Swan cherished by the patriarchy etc and a really Black/Bad/Witch/Sexy Swan who demonizes around the place making scenes. There is magic in there as well. It’s like the Madonna-Whore complex set on a lake and with birds, feathery tutus etc.

I actually always thought Natalie Portman a bit dull but now i know she has Lilith Rising and she’s doing this role, i’m a huge fan. And you?

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Blue Moon
Blue Moon

Massive fan! Of Portman and of this movie, and Matthew Bourne’s Swan Lake is the best IMO but it also happens to be my favourite ballet. First time I saw it II was just GOBSMAKKED. I had no idea of the story and the realisation that it was the same dancer dancing both role just floored me. This was the Russian ballet, from St Petersburg on tour and the lead dancer was called Irina Something totally Unpronouncable. Yeah I have both my true and mean Liliths in Scorpio in the 12th house less than one degree away from each other… Read more »

AstroFix
AstroFix

I actually always thought Natalie Portman a bit dull
Me too.

I hope this movie changes my mind, or I will continue to consider her overrated – Lilith in Scorpio rising or not.

SourPatch
SourPatch

ARRRRRGH, I cant believe I missed this! =( I have Lilith conjunct Moon in Virgo in the 8th. But I’m more of a forest witch-by-the-lake than a black swan. My sister actually watched this movie too (pirated, I guess, since its new). For Lilith stories: I was once in love with a pisces moon, who reciprocated the feelings but was scared to death of me. He was a scorpio too. O, what is wrong with that picture? I guess it was never meant to be if he had the same reaction to me as about 90% of the population.

goldfleece-risingfish
goldfleece-risingfish

free ticket giveaways for australian bloggers

U
U

astrotheme ‘s info is not always right..check the ephemeris. Her lilith is actually on 18’ scorp So NOT exact conjunct

AstroFix
AstroFix

Which Lilith are you using. The default Lilith on astrotheme is osculating Lilith (true Lilith) not Black Moon Lilith (mean Lilith).

Raché (Aqua/Tauri)
Raché (Aqua/Tauri)

Lilith in Cancer, near my mother’s sun and rising.

I have no other planets in Cancer and am a triple fixed sign so it makes sense that this would be my shadow!

Fi
Fi

I’m still confused about which Lilith are we talking here? I looked again at previous posts including Return of the Bitch Goddess and you seemed to be referring to the Asteroid but also mentioned Black moon lilith in same post…. For me, which one really IS the bitch goddess is intriguing – since according to Astrodienst the two of them are so differently positioned in my chart. Got black moon lilith loosely rising (5 degree orb), conjunct venus-neptune conjunction, in scorpio, all within 5 degrees of scorp ascendant…I guess venus-nept softens her a bit, but keeps her very alive to… Read more »

Quadrupled
Quadrupled

🙂 I have to check black moon lilith and see when and how it saved my behind. Normal Lilith is about gender justice for me, in Libra.

Fi
Fi

So normal lilith is asteroid lilith, Q? If in Libra she is all about gender justice, that makes total sense of MY life, too…ie opp my warrior Aries moon, it makes sense of the times I have surrendered it (justice), probably thanks to help from Ven-Nept rose coloured glasses…

Wonder how Uranus crossing Aries moon at 4 degrees is going to affect my lilith in libra? Hopefully, it will mean that moon will no longer trump lilith’s justice and will get her warrior on, in uncompromising fashion!!

Quadrupled
Quadrupled

I believe asteroid lilith is marked white, black moon lilith is black on astro.com. Btw, just read in Romania witches cast a spell on government asking them to pay income taxes. Interesting.

Let’s compare notes with Uranus in Aries shooting arrows to lilith in Libra. It should be fun.

Fi
Fi

Certainly will Q, and by the way, only just noticed this: “Lilith in Libra would be tapping the whip while waiting for the scales” You’re on fire darls; evocative and inspiring or what? Can SO see my Lilith in Libra doing just that, in gorgeous white silk riding shirt, hair in elegant french roll. Ditto my black moon lilith in Scorp, actually – ‘cept she’s in blood velvet riding jacket/lips and black jods, has just shaken her hair wild and loose and long and tangled, and is only JUST being restrained from actually CRACKING the goddammed whip over undeserving flesh… Read more »

Quadrupled
Quadrupled

Blood velvet riding jacket should be the uniform of all females ignored on this world, just because they happen to be born as females.

Saturnrox
Saturnrox

you had me at blood velvet

Essie
Essie

I just read the description for Lilith in Cancer and I basically sound like a horrible person.

I also have a Cancer Rising, so I’m confused.

One website even said that I should consider not having children – yikes. Babies are my most favorite things in the world and I love my job as a nanny.

Water Pig
Water Pig

Ooh what happens when the moon sign and Lilith are in the same house? Mine are both in 7th house aquarius (moon 25 degrees, Lilith 5 degrees). Lilith sextile uranus in sag (4th house). I’ve looked through the Lilith category and found one article on ‘uranus sextile Lilith’ but did’t really help. I have no idea!

andromeda
andromeda

Lilith I think of as a Kali type figure, but less skull trimmings and more shimmery sexy.

I have her in Aquarius in the 8th opposite my Leo sun. At four degrees orb it’s close but maybe not close enuff?

Aquarius + Scorpio + Lilith = Alien Sexy Time in an alternate dimension/reality?

More kind of a Uranian wild woman with a penchant for social revolution sits opposite my Leo Patriarchal stuffy 2nd house Sun.

tati scorpitini
tati scorpitini

Loved her in “V for Vendetta” (awesome and now very topical of course, those masks are popping up everywhere) and The Professional and Closer. She’s very good, radiates quality and professionalism. I’m definitely looking forward to Black Swan, sounds like an interesting story and the shadow/horror element appeals to my scorp/jungian interests. Also the Swan Lake story, while a bit dull to me by itself (I’m more of an opera and contemporary dance fan) is an interesting one to subvert … I saw the Matthew Bourne choreographed version of Swan Lake which reversed the lead role (the dual white/black swan)… Read more »

Quadrupled
Quadrupled

So something happens, and reminds me Lilith today. Someone calls me to ask my opinions on such and such. Typical reference thing. I tell I don’t remember the guy, cut my connections long ago. Place the phone back, turn to screen. And suddenly remember why. The guy had beaten his wife, or threatened to do so, details are not clear. But, a friend of theirs had brought the wife to my house. She was distraught, stayed up all night, talking to her. Then she wanted to go back to her house, couldn’t find the guy, her husband, and another crisis.… Read more »

Saturnrox
Saturnrox

oh my, that is interesting, Quad.
I was thinking today, that if Lilith represents wild and untamed female spirit who will not bow down to man, it makes sense my Juno is in Libra (and Lilith conjunct N Node).

Quadrupled
Quadrupled

Saturnrox, Libra is Justice. I would suspect Juno in Libra would be all about fair and square in a committed relationship, otherwise gone or better yet, kick to the curb.

Lilith in Libra would be tapping the whip while waiting for the scales.

But Lilith conj NN should have its own outlet or amplifier.

Saturnrox
Saturnrox

Yes, that is how my Juno in Libra worked. My ex claimed ‘I do everything around here’ while I did all the groceries, laundry, cleaning, you get the pic. He basically mowed the yard and yelled while I got to be maidservant. Lovely. Curb !
Lilith/ N Node are in Toro 4. I’ll have to read more, but I suspect it has to do with my unwillingness to leave my home, despite the objections of men. (I was forced to move frequently during childhood via my mother)

parafractal
parafractal

This is where the story of the Peeping Tom comes from, I believe.

Anonymous
Anonymous

Just met a guy the other week- had that complete magnetic attraction thing – then when I checked we had only distant (my) mars (his) Venus trine, wondered what it could be, but his moon was almost exact conjunct my gem sun and his cancer sun was right on my Lilith in 5th house… dynamite! But sadly he is partnered up so no go, but haven’t felt that connection in ages…

Hummingbird
Hummingbird

Oops that was me – moon and mars sag, Venus Aries, so Lilith totally different energy for me…never usually attracted to cancer men but he was seriously hot!!!

virgo rising
virgo rising

on another note she was in a movie with Hugo Weaving called “V for Vendetta” that totally blew me away…seems to have flown under the radar …I just picked it up at the video shop a couple of years ago…probably too controversial to get much media attention….HIGHLY recommended….

ScorpioRising
ScorpioRising

I loved that too! How could I have forgotten. thank you!

fallen angel
fallen angel

LOVED V for Vendetta, it’s on my rotation of Nemesis inspiring movies. As is the Count of Monte Cristo.

Are there are actually any Scorps who wouldn’t love V for Vendetta??

virgo rising
virgo rising

Lilith conjunct Chiron in 12th house Virgo…any thoughts anyone?

Catsmeow
Catsmeow

Prior to reading this I didn’t even know what Lilith was, so I had to look mine up – Sagittarius. I’ve been into astrology heavily for the past few months, so am only now learning all these things that I never knew about. I always knew I was a Leo Sun but have always been generally reserved in public, the type that prefers studying others from afar. Because of that, I used to think astrology was a load of bull. I couldn’t possibly be the sociable Leo! That was until I found out about things like your moon and ascendant.… Read more »

applepieskies
applepieskies

“I always knew I was a Leo Sun but have always been generally reserved in public, the type that prefers studying others from afar.”

I was going to ask you if you had an Aqua moon until I kept reading!
Personally, I think you’ve got a lovely Sun/Moon/ASC combination, all coming from different elements. A little bit of everything. 🙂

Catsmeow
Catsmeow

Ha! Very cool that you were able to pin it before I said it. I’ve read a few things on it, mostly articles that combined it with my Leo sun, and they made it sound like I should be incredibly social and friendly with those two signs as my sun and moon. What I read about a Scorpio ascendant said I would have a “shrewd, secretive, obstinate, clever and reserved disposition,” which really fits me to a T. It sounds like in your experience an Aqua moon can make someone reserved? I really like my combination of signs too, so… Read more »

applepieskies
applepieskies

Leos can do great things with an Aqua moon, Kate Bush being one marvelous example! I think it really helps to balance the “me” vibe Leos can have. It helps you see humanity more. Personally, I think the Aqua moon is the most misunderstood moon sign. I also have it, (along with a Libra sun so I’m supposed to be super social as well), and I’ve never really fully agreed with the interpretations. Especially the detachment factor. Instead of emphasizing detachment, I think they should instead focus on the unpredictability. Our ability to be deeply involved one day and not… Read more »

Catsmeow
Catsmeow

It’s good to know that I might be destined for great things. ;D I’d have to agree with you there. It does feel like Aqua moon is misunderstand from a lot of the interpretations I’ve read. And all that you said really described how am I, too. One day I might care greatly, and the next I couldn’t really give a rat’s ass because I’ve moved onto something else. I do admit to being detached, especially wherein those closest to me are concerned. I tend to focus on worldly problems (like, say, Gay rights just as an example) than the… Read more »

Catsmeow
Catsmeow

misunderstood* and becoming*. Typing too fast, heh.

leogroover
leogroover

I have simliar planets CM and AP except Aqua rising and moon in scorp. Aqua keeps me cool under pressure but the scorp bluntness comes with a warning sign I share when ever I meet new people. And I often apologise in advance if I’m having a drink for my obnoxiouness. lol The Aqua also gives me a professional distance which is essential for more work. JHowever , my Venus in Kataka gets me in trouble everytime. i come across too goo even tho I’m not. Currently being persued by a Kataka and he is layering it on thick and… Read more »

Catsmeow
Catsmeow

A switch-a-roo. I used to think that Scorpio moon could be a dangerous thing, especially if it’s hidden behind livelier/friendlier signs. But I actually know of three people with Scorpio moons right now (it seems to be a really popular moon!). Two of them with Cancer suns and one with an Aries sun. And they’re probably some of my favorite people, so. 😉 I’m distant professionally too, and I do think that’s a good thing. I’m new to this site and I’ve seeing “Kataka” a few times around the comments, but I have no idea what it means. And I’ve… Read more »

fallen angel
fallen angel

Echo admiration for la Portman, I was a fan after the Professional and Closer, though a few of her other films made me go myopic on how her eyebrows do this thing when she’s meant to be crying. Goodness, I saw this film with the Double Lib – special screening last Sept., the tix were free and they were scouring the train of people by demographic. We lined up answering questions on the perfect movie poster for 127 hours whilst waiting, I made mine up into a paper airplane which the Double Lib was perplexed about though it drew admiration… Read more »

Baristagem
Baristagem

I kinda want to see this! Read an interview on Natalie in a weekend mag & honestly never been much interested in her. Weird coz I’m not even interested in the darkness of the film I guess it sounds very Saturny to me & I have a whole bunch of squares that light up whenever I see someone pushed to their limits.

Reminds me of me… 😯

munin
munin

lilith conj sun and pluto in libra square moon in cap. i have always felt like the poor moon is overshadowed by this triple conjunction. definitely have a thing against macho stuff and i enjoy playing temptress. so it’s no wonder i found the black swan dance sequence entrancing – it just felt so empowering!

DoubleMutable
DoubleMutable

I’m also a Gemini, with Lilith in Scorpio- wot does it mean?!?

I took the test & I do know that I’m a highly Plutonic Gemini!

Sweetpea
Sweetpea

It means that as you ~whip them~ you talk….like “does it hurt yet?”

No answer….

“Cat got your tongue does it?”

😆

Soz, just playin around as I don’t really know what it means and I need to go to bed. x

DoubleMutable
DoubleMutable

Bahaha, I wish I could “like” this post right now.

Saturnrox
Saturnrox

chuckle. I was a lion-tamer many All Hallows eve’s ago, and have the whip to prove it RRARRWRR 🙂

gemyogi
gemyogi

I’ve got Lilith at 16 degrees Sag, in my 8th house. When I had my last astro consult the astrologer said I was very strong and couldn’t stand the patriarchy and macho power trips, which is true. I also love my freedom and have only been in one long term relationship… and have been a ‘mistress’

GeorgeSand
GeorgeSand

I’ve always been a fan ever since I saw her in her first role in The Professional with Jean Reno. I think maybe it’s because I knew she had Scorpio Ascendant and that she wild eventually find a role worthy of her depth. I’ve got Scorpio Sun trine Lilith in Pisces. Have no idea what that means but if anyone wants to chime in I’d be most receptive…..

ScorpioRising
ScorpioRising

I loved her in The Professional and The Black Swan. Amazing movie dealing with The Shadow Artist and her mother living through her causing a complete psychotic break.
The anorexia and perfectionism drove her over the edge.
She is perfect for the role. Lilith!

Sweetpea
Sweetpea

Hey George, Not saying a trine doesn’t work as at least there is contact but, astrologers usually only use oppositions and conjunctions with asteroids with a 2.5 to 3 degree orb tops. The small orb is because there are so many asteroids they could fill up one’s chart that there needs to be some type of limit.. 😕 Now if for example one has an asteroid (as I do in my chart) conjunct Sun and part of a stellium and that stellium is trine another planet then I throw the asteroid in because the other planets have already strengthened the… Read more »

andromeda
andromeda

Thanks for that Sweetpea, that’s a very helpful comment!

Saturnrox
Saturnrox

ditto !

GeorgeSand
GeorgeSand

Thanks Sweetpea,

I echo the others. So for Lilith I should look at my chart where there are tight aspects? Is this what you are suggesting? I’m confused! (If you haven’t gathered already….)

Sweetpea
Sweetpea

Yes, with asteroids in general, the tighter the aspect the better.

And again, not saying a trine or sextile is not valid just make sure it’s
a very tight aspect as they are already “easy ” aspects so to speak, they are not like a conjunction, opposition or square in that they don’t activate or propell in the same manner.

Sweetpea
Sweetpea

George, I tried to post this this morning but my comment still waitin’ moderation so going to copy and paste and maybe it will show up this time. If not, then guess you’ll never get either…lol

Yes, with asteroids in general, the tighter the aspect the better.

And again, not saying a trine or sextile is not valid just make sure it’s
a very tight aspect as they are already “easy ” aspects so to speak, they are not like a conjunction, opposition or square in that they don’t activate or propell in the same manner.

Hope this helps a bit.

fushiafairy
fushiafairy

Lilith is known for her association with animals. Natalie Portman is a strict vegan and has been for many years.
Mine is in pisces in 7th house. Interesting combination.

sagitta
sagitta

I have Lilith in 3 Capricorn, exactly trine my Mars in Virgo. It’s also trine asteroid Philomela (196) in 3 Taurus. So . . . does that make me a nightingale instead of a black swan?

(Philomela’s story is dark too, and it’s about patriarchy, and a ghastly revenge in which a woman kills her son and feeds it to the father (her husband, Tereus,) to avenge the rape of her sister by that same Tereus.)

Saturnrox
Saturnrox

hmmm…Lilith conjunct N Node, trine ASC.
That’s ‘revvin’ the engine’~>
Trine Venus/Jupiter square Neptune.
That’s ‘runnin’ the red light’ ~>
Shortest autobiography evah!

not-so-virginal
not-so-virginal

I agree MM that I always thought Natalie Portman was awful, *ugh* like some sort of terrible straight-laced private school girl with no other qualities to endear her. I blame her terrible wooden role/performance as Queen Amidala in the Star Wars prequel movies. But I read an interview recently about her favourite books and I realised that she is actually a very intelligent, thoughtful young woman with a social conscience. I think this kind of role would suit her as she obviously has an appreciation not only for movies but for art and for the deeper meanings contained below the… Read more »

Sweetpea
Sweetpea

Saw this movie on a whim while out Xmas shopping a bit back. Asked a movie attendant which I should see, Black Swan or The Tourist. She said Black Swan was a little “dark” so I said, okay, I’ll go for that. Depends on one’s mood of course altho mine wasn’t “dark”. Natalie Portman now preggers with her first child and is engaged to Benjamin Millepied, the choreographer of “Black Swan.” I love Natalie and think she’s gorge. She did a fine job. To Empress (above) it’s not a horror but explict a little sexually. Would love to comment more… Read more »

olyalyalya
olyalyalya

Ditto, Venus and Lilith conjunct in Taurus, opposition Saturn, sextile Mercury, square Jupiter and MC. The man don’t tell me what to do with emphasis on Saturn, actually Saturn is a bit of my weakness.

The film was completely insane.

anonymous
anonymous

I didn’t find it that dark but maybe that’s coz i’m a Scorp. Was a bit disappointed with the movie to be honest. Natalie did a great job though. I think she’s stunningly beautiful and a great actress.

Shannon
Shannon

Ummmm. Freaked out. My Lilith is in early Aquarius, near my late Cap Moon & right near the the Sun of the Aqua that I am currently pushing away like you wouldn’t believe. Creepy.

Welcome back, Mystic : )

Anonymous
Anonymous

I still think she’s dull

KP
KP

My Moon and Lilith are both in Aries…?

multimerc
multimerc

Me too! and they’re conjunct. So what’s that mean exactly? Full on I guess.

multimerc
multimerc

Oh and in the 8th!

The Empress
The Empress

Have Lilith all up in my chart. Thanks to a consult Mystic did a while back and my own research I can see how Lilith I really am. I know this; she cannot be tamed. Piss her off and watch out. Even though she squares my moon I think they work well together as they’re both ruled by Mercury (Lilith in Virgo and Moon in Gem). Never been a fan of Natalie either – found her as dull as dish water. Until I saw Closer. Love her in that. Oh, and The Professional. Best things she’s ever done. Want to… Read more »

Steph
Steph

My Lilith in Scorpio trines ascendant-mars in Pisces. Various articles have told me that it’s different for men and women, regardless of sexual orientation. I’ve noticed that 1) women tend to admire my independence and refusal to go with patriarchal culture I grew up with and 2) men fear me and, yeah, sometimes think I’m hot, even though I probably would rip off their balls if provoked.

I’ve adored Natalie Portman since she was Queen Amidala in Star Wars. She’s smart, pretty, talented and doesn’t overdo the Hollywood thing. We need more actors like her.

Nicole
Nicole

I have my Rising, Lilith, and Pluto in Scorpio (in addition to my 6 planets in Capricorn). I feel like I’m supposed to be some power-crazed evil sorceress or something rather than a big goof. Am I interpreting this wrong or should I expect to grow into this?

The Empress
The Empress

I’d see it as not being a pushover.

Andrei
Andrei

I love evil sorceresses :)). I have Capricorn ascendant and lilith in scorpio, 9’th house. Cancer moon in 6’th. some say it’s “witchcraft of the highest calibre”. Power is the name of the game 😀

Anonymous
Anonymous

I think natalie did a great job in the movie. One of the great movies about about grappling with the shadow

Sweetpea
Sweetpea

Agree… with a good dose of perhaps the schizoids mixed in….

WOOHOO
WOOHOO

Love Natalie Portman. I thought she was a bit so-so until I saw “Closer”. I haven’t seen this movie though, really want to!

Year of the fox
Year of the fox

nyarrr! I have Lilith conjunct Moon in Scorpio. I’m not so much a black swan as more of a black owl or quail. 🙂

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