Astro Gore Vidal
Well, well. I have not read any Gore Vidal apart from funny-bitchy shit about him in Vanity Fair over the years EXCEPT FOR this amazing novel, Julian. It’s a historical novel on the last Pagan Emperor of Rome, a military genius AND a man of letters who fought vehemently against the sexism and intolerance of Christians. Check his Wiki for more or read G.V’s book about him and develop an insane crush on the guy. He freed slaves, he pardoned the temple whores, he spoke out in fave of sacred sex, loved astrology, he invented anti-racism laws, he was feminist (for his time) and he was hot.
Okay, Gore…He is having a fabulous Jupiter transit at the moment, something oddly common at the time of passing – seriously – a trip to another dimension? He has his Sun-Mercury-Mars tight together in Libra (barbed wit, you know) and Scorpio Rising (some have alleged a little bit of sex obsession lol) and Pluto squares the Sun-Mercury-Mars AND opposes his Jupiter in Capricorn. He was a Zap Zone kind of a guy who would most likely have loved to stick around to comment on this era and no doubt he will incarnate PROMPTLY. Or travel back in time to have a crack at the Pagan Emperor Julian.
Thoughts?
Aries Moon= fighter, Libran spirited gift of writing. Venus?
I was just reading …..Anais Nin claimed to have had any affair with him that he denied , ha.
My awe of him was the way he presented his ideas. Captivating, the most intelligent American I have ever heard or read. His certainty is infectious.
A true artist of politics and culture. An outstanding member of the cold war generation.
True, an outstanding member of that generation and as MM infers perhaps ahead of his time in many ways.
Theres been a very annoying loss of a bunch of ‘tell it like it is’ good folks of late..Alexander Cockburn, Hitchens, Steve Jobs ..off the top of my head…
If neo-authenticity is the new zeitgeist then its a real shame these guys arent physically around to help out.
George Carlin… Another leo ASC no wonder we get along….
Tho he did say some silly things in the later years that neo-cons Loved to pounce on. Some say it was dementia but he was might of just been getting bored.
Either way, I see the guy as smite down like Alec Guinness by Darth Vader….
only with Margaret Thatcher in the Vader suit.
I know I should never say it I know but I dont think I’ll be shedding a tear when she eventually toodles off thru the gates and over that pearly off-gassing astroturf.
No-one will Boots!
how would you envisage London now if Thatcher had not ever achieved office?
errm..
well perhaps the anti-aircraft batteries peppered around the city might not have been so necessary.
Boris Johnson quaintly observed that they nicely added to the ‘tone’ of the event.
I’m sorry, this isnt really the place for politics but as far as I’m concerned, astrology Is extremely closely intertwined with our natural planet.
Animals, plants , microbes..rocks..the lot.
Conservatives, tories neocons…
as Charles in these comments so succinctly explained, love to attack people like Gore Vidal and there aren’t enough of peeps with his skills and humanism around.
For every successful politically motivated smear with corporate interests behind it, another species goes extinct somewhere, some crucial biota is irreparably mutated or some Amur leopard cub loses its mother.
That could possible send humanity around the twist down the track.
I think the average Taurean NEEDS that nonchalant Brahmin bull to keep swaggering around the streets of Goa.
Oh , I’m not saying ALL corporations are greedy meanies.
I Love Ikea.
and sorry with the ‘place for politics’ comment after I myself brought up Maggie…oh well
most intelligent american you have ever heard or read………………………
really?
Yes, really !!!
You might want to read more American writers. Caustic, misogynist wit isn’t intelligent.
Sorry to tell you but Ive read a lot of American novels, texts , listened to a lot of American commentators, most of them unfortunately don’t hold a candle to this guy. In fact I find American culture at the moment is quite sick, insular and downright dangerous.
i really love him too. genius
Special place in my mind/heart for Gore Vidal. Have read his memoir ‘Palimpsest’ and his descriptions of the food of his childhood have remained with me ever since. It’s awfully good.
Read many of his books growing up, I love his style, he captured the essence of situations and times with such panache.
RIP Gore!
Palimpsest would be my fav autobio. I read it at the same time as Katherine Graham, Truman Capote and rubbishy Kennedy stuff… he had such access to that era of America.
Seem to be losing an awful lot of true intellectuals lately. And let’s not forget Chris Marker in that list.
Frightening, isn’t it?
So where does this fit into his astro, then? Is there a specific conjunction for “disgusting excuse for a human being”?
http://www.shakesville.com/2012/08/so-gore-vidal-died.html
I’m with you here, Katharine. To answer your question, I don’t think a specific conjunction exists for supreme misogyny and douchebaggery (not that I’m an astrologist, by any means). As far as I can tell, these kind of elitist attitudes stem from some warped sense of superiority/God complex… from being propped up like some kind of guru by the masses…
Hell, chimps can put a sentence together– hasn’t anyone read the NY Times? No disrespect to chimps, of course: they’re amazing animals, like us.
Vidal was just a guy with an inflated sense of self and a lot of money. Whatever. It takes a lot more than that to impress me– A Lot more than that!
Yep I agree with you both. He’s not talented enough to overcome his obnoxiousness.
Oh but you are so wrong. He was absolutely brilliant enough to be able to use obnoxiousness as a weapon. Whoever is offended by Gore Vidal, is a pompous ass who is badly in need of being offended. And invariably, their protestations seem feeble. If Gore Vidal wants to offend you, you should be honored that he squandered his wit on the likes of you.
LOL Charles
Earlier in the comments ‘Anon’ told DavidL that Vidal was a misogynist…well..
I just dont think its good juju to dis a recently departed major creative force.
Nothing personal ‘Anon’ if you read this but I reckon your Dogma oughta keep half an eye open for a runaway Carma.
If an adjective is true about someone in the commenters opinion, it doesn’t stop being true just because the person being described has died
Whoa what’s with the personal attack? Settle down and take a breath before firing off insults at someone you don’t know.
Huh? What personal attack Fifi?
I mean I’m asking someone whos ‘Anon’ not to take some mild esoteric advice too personally..
I thought I was being quite considerate.
OPA…Sorry Fifi…you were referring to that brute Charles.
He’s shocking.
Absolutely no sense of humour either.
Lacuna, you’re hot
Kitty,
I Love your name.
might as well include Wes Anderson and Tilda Swinton since they signed the release Roman Polanski thing too.
Done.
Done.
It’s the Zap Zone, for chrissakes: enough bullshit, all ready.
The whole Polanski thing disgusts me. He should be in prison, not celebrated. I even loved Rosemary’s Baby.
Wes Anderson, another director I do not care at all for. yuck.
Gore Vidal’s quote is horrible. I had no idea.
We need to cut the celebrity worship in society. It is unhealthy. Celebrate talent, yes, but realize they are humans too, so no need for worship.
The Zap Zone Pluto in Capricorn should be exposing all the ugly truths of every institution.
It looks like Madonna fans and seeing her more clearly now too.
Right on, scorpiorising.
thanks, I love eccentric artists, but really put my foot down at sexual predators that like little girls. it disgusts me.
back in the 20s when hollywood was just kind of starting”" or whatever, all films’ messages had to be approved by the US government before reaching the public…… its not art. thats why people critcize americans for being dumb, because the “art” that is popular enough to spread so pervasively beyond america are just approved messages from the government such as “get money.” makes americans look stupid while attempting to make american culture worshippers of other countries just as greedy as the government
and PS in case it wasn’t clear, i mean to say that most garbage and celebrities out of hollywood are PROPAGANDA! ideological message bearers and portrayers, who may or may not be aware that they are desensitizing people to violence, advocating social control through ideologies of femininity, racism, “american citizenship,” ok i’ll shut up now. but not forever
I agree it’s all propaganda. I prefer underground art and music than mainstream.
Same!
But that’s not actually what he said. That comment was taken out of context. Vidal went into the hype around the Polanski case at length, that was just his typical hyperbolic opening barb, jousting with an interviewer. And Vidal was legendary for his contentious interviews.
I’ll let you research and locate the origin of that quote. In doing so, you might find that this particular controversy was manufactured by right-wing commentators, intent on cutting down their left-wing critic. You have been duped by Vidal’s critics.
I will note two relevant facts. First, the woman who is the alleged victim wants the charges dropped, and has said so for many years. Secondly, I have actually read the transcript of her courtroom testimony, and she knew what she was doing, and said so in court. Vidal’s characterization of her is not unreasonable.
Roman Polanski can make his little movies from prison, where society is safe from his preying on and raping girls. All of the proceeds from his films, then, should go toward social programs that assist survivors.
And he and Tilda and Wes and Gore and whomever else can Kiss My Ass.
Kudos, I concur!
Why would a woman take his side?! Disgusting!
Yes, Polanski should be locked away from children.
I could go on a long rant here about how his friends enable and support his creepy ways but, I won’t. Don’t want to start a fight or drag the topic into another one.
The master list of actors and actresses is here…over 138:
http://www.jacksonnjonline.com/2009/09/30/138-hollywood-actors-actresses-and-filmmakers-support-convicted-rapist-polanski/6282/
Awesome! Thanks, EEL.
Gilliam! Lynch! Scorcese! Wenders!
You could have used your powers for good, but noooooo.
Elitist vampires. Dead to me.
(Of course Woody Allen’s on the list, but that’s hardly a surprise. Der.)
how many women signed it I wonder?
Oh so disappointed in Tilda, she’s one of my faves -what is it with these intelligent Hollywood people backing this ’cause’
I can more easily set aside Gore Vidal’s view on Polanski’s crime than those who were not enmeshed with and therefore blind to it through friendship or even by generational ignorance. I did not know Swinton had signed on! This is not to say that I defend GV on his Polanski stance. He ought to have kept mum … but rot often flows out of mouths when the brain is bedeviled by age and enormous ego.
Oh dear, I hadn’t read or heard this… Totally unacceptable comment.
I find this an interesting topic though. When is justice done, how is justice done, who meters out justice?
Then as in the Woodsman when is a person more than their crime, when does punishment end in other’s eyes.
In the case of SAS soldiers/spies I have known, they committed moral crimes at the behest of the government for eg. They are not punished but celebrated, yet they are scarred and punish themselves regardless.
Anyway, I guess I can enjoy what he as to offer as writer without enjoying his delusional and unpleasant views as a person.
yeah I’m not a huge Gore Vidal fan but it’s not like he raped that poor 13 yr old girl. He just showed no sympathy for her, which is a shitty attitude… Lots of CEOs and politicians think like this or they wouldn’t be able to sleep at night with all the people they cause harm to or cheat. It doesn’t make him a good person but he’s not a rapist…that we know of. So why pick on Gore Vidal, ya know? Also, I’m sure it galled the dude that he was being interviewed and the interviewer instead of asking him about personal stuff starts asking about shit his bat-shit crazy buddy does as if he’s responsible for his friends’ actions. It’s like why Chelsea Clinton refuses to answer any questions about her family because all the reporters want to know is the crap that happened with Bill and Monica. Chelsea didn’t have control over what happened.
#2 Was justice served in the Polanski case? Probably not but i always say ask the victim. The victim of the crime herself last i read just wants all of the news to just quiet down and go away so she can live her normal life. I’d feel more like hang Mr. Polanski high if the victim wanted more justice but seems like she is content at least. http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-09-28/gossip/17931417_1_samantha-geimer-mr-polanski-roman-polanski
And i say this as someone who was sexually assaulted at 15 y.o. by two military men. At some point, you just move on after enough personal justice is served.
Thank you for sharing that EEL.. it is a tasteful and considered viewpoint embracing the shades of grey I perceive here also – especially considering your experience. That must have been very difficult for you and it’s great to read your comments and see the powerful person you clearly are and perceive how you moved through that.
Thanks. I may be rather too practical and cold when it comes to matters like this, but that’s just how i view the world. It’s not going to change overnight, but change can happen slowly if we take the time to instill what is important on the next generation. Violence against women can end.
I just don’t get why this thread is turning into a Polanski thread when the topic was Bore Vidal. :/
It’s about the precedent that it sets in society for the rape of young girls everywhere. The message it states as to whether we accept that or not.
If you read of the rape in Roman Polanski’s own words in his autobiography it is very clear that he was the adult and she was the child in a family that never protected her so she didn’t know about safely saying no to grown men. Even though he is trying to put the blame on her in the book it is completely obvious that he the grown up should never have touched her.
Of course the girl wants to get on with her life. But as someone who had unwanted attention when young I feel opposite to Eel on this one. I say SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE – IT’S NOT OKAY TO FUCK MINORS
I’m not disputing rape or whatever occured with Polanski. It’s def. a tragedy! I don’t get why people are blaming Gore Vidal for it just because they are friends. I’m not totally sure Vidal was even really into women much.
Also what is a minor? It is undefined in France. In places that are as 1st world as the U.S. or Oz the number varies. In Spain and Japan, the age of consent is 13 y.o. It doesn’t really change the Polanski thing much because rape is still rape barring any age of consent thing, but since you brought up minor…
Gore Vidal- An astro-obituary http://bit.ly/R8usFd
Maybe looking at Venus and Pluto in Gore’s chart is interesting in light of the above..
Venus in Scorpio, 12th is square Neptune in Leo 9th
Sun-Merc 10th is square Pluto in Cancer 8th
Then there is Uranus trine Pluto trine Venus.
lol, it’s a curse, the ol’ Venus in Scorp 12th, to be sure, mine is conjunct neptune (square Mars and Saturn). , That must be why i agree with Charles and E E Libran (joking) and adore controversial iconooclasts like Vidal.
Did he piss so many people off because of the scorp venus trine pluto uranus sting of truth to what some saw as his misanthropy? It was certainly not misogyny, as far as I can see from his writings, in spite of the fact that calling the 13 year old aspiring model (whose parents had to be thinking of the money she might rake in from contracts through networking when they let her go to a Hollywood party at that age) a hooker, was unfair on her.
Vidal was right up there with Swift and Orwell as a satirist.
I loved Kalki, for example, one of his light reads, which had such an edge of your seat can’t-go-to-bed-til-I’ve-read-the-next-bit plot, and was equal parts funny, deep, disturbing. Blend of a thriller, based around an impending apocalypse and Hindu mythology, it absolutely skewers human gullibility and seducibility by pseudo-saviours, megalomania and the commercial media that breed and feed on all of these, the way we trash the planet, male narcissism and ultra-feminist doctrine as it was back then in the 70s when I read it as an adolescent/teenager.
Many of the themes still seem so relevant. Will add Julian to the must-read list.
Interesting! I haven’t read Kalki, sounds very good. I would like a better understanding of that trine, but Pluto trine Venus trine Uranus certainly has a kind of fiendish magnetism that must translate into his work and personal life.
Slow of the mark on this one, not surprising.
How inspirational, Thank you Mystic for this thread. (While I laughed about the crush comment, it is quite true.)
There was a replay of an interview/tv segment that he did with the ABC in 1974 and it was incredibly interesting. Even through the black and white recording, his eyes had this incredible twinkle (could partly be the lighting but still quite noticeable). The other noticeable thing was despite it being 1974, most of what was discussed and what he had to share, contribute to discussion, could have been recorded recently and it would still be relevant.
I think my mum has been talking about Vidal Gore to me (in particularly about his books) for the past few years but for some reason the name always eludes me. It seems/would appear some of his books are no longer in circulation (including pre-loved copies) and one might speculate they could have been ‘black listed’ so to speak. I won’t name which ones are suspected in case they really have been but is interesting none the less. Or for my ma, very frustrating since she lent her copy to someone and never got it back so it too seems to have vanished.