Pluto In Scorp Wants To Know
“Hey Mystic- question for you
What role do you see us Pluto in Scorpio kids playing in the drama of Pluto in Capricorn/Zap Zone? Yes, the #occupy movement is huge, but feels more like Pluto in Libra IMHO. Surely we don’t have to just sit back and watch our world burn, and then pick up the pieces?
Sincerely, a very Frustrated Arian Gemini…”
GOOD question. And i don’t have an easy answer. Do any of you guys reading this? I do think that the rage felt toward the Pluto in Leo generation (essentially, baby boomers) by Gen X is going to be nothing compared to the clash between the Pluto in Scorpio and Pluto in Leo generations.
FYI: Pluto was in Leo from 1938 to 1958 and Pluto was in Scorpio from 1983 to 1995. Pluto Generations resonate with various eras. Within these Pluto generations, there are sub-groups. Such as the Pluto in Virgo peeps born with Uranus-Pluto conjunct or the Pluto in Scorps with Neptune-Uranus conjunct.
Arguably, the Pluto in Leo generation created a lot of the debt bubble and must-have consciousness that is now bursting. The Zap Zone is Demolition Astro (see previous posts in the Astro Global Economic Fuqery for more on this) and the tearing-down corrupt structures phase of it is just beginning.
Pluto is MOST powerful in the sign of Scorpio. No way is your generation going to sit around and watch anything, right? i think it’s more likely you will play a major part in the rebuild; fierce, uncompromising and operating in an an environment where a lot of the benefits the Pluto in Leo lot thrived on are just not there for you.
The other day i read that Gen Y aka Pluto in Scorp peeps are shunning debt – that’s part of it. You were kids when the Twin Towers fell and now have graduated into a situation where the entire financial system is apparently shonky. So if you’re right about the #Occupy movement being essentially Pluto in Libra (and maybe some Pluto in Virgos?) then you guys are going to be doing New Business, New Politics, New Art, New Everything.
Thoughts?
Read Gen Y is ditching their parents outdated suburban dreams in droves for apartment living instead of home ownership – walking or public trans to work instead of the single car commute.
I wonder if this is because they can’t afford anything else. I’m trying to think of a gen y person I know who doesn’t either live at home still or is in share accomodation. Is it because they prefer it or lack of choice?
Definitely lack of choice in my case.
Who can afford it, unless there on 100,000 ??
For example, my parents bought their house in the 80′s for 30,000, they were earning a combined income of 27,000. Now look at today. The average income is round 60,000. The average house is half a mill?? Does not add up…
They made huge profits on there houses… We dont have that opportunity..
I agree. College tuition is outrageous, difficult to land high paying jobs and keep them and rent is so high hard to save up for home ownership.
Lack of choice here as well.
Same here. When I was working full time I was saving for a house, then I went back to school to get a degree to be able to make money to theoretically keep that house. Now I’m living at home, struggling to pay back student loans while looking for work that doesn’t exist and watching my savings slowly disappear.
My parents bought their first house from my mom’s dad who was the landlord of the property. I think they paid $5 just to make it official. Now both my mom’s parents are dead and their house was left to her, but no one can afford a big family home these days, so the house has remained on the market for nearly a year, costing more money to maintain than she’ll probably get back from its eventual sale.
Sounds like laurens resting on her laurels casting judgement on a beautiful movement which is up agianst and unprecedented militarization of the police department.
This movment is not stupid and gonna light a match in its first seconds. You have to buuild a movement to last and if they did riot. Then its already marked by bad press when people are just starting to get used to the idea that the governments are corrupt.
It needs to watch how it gets labled, win peoples mind ove then when they have more you can soapbox away,
What have you done lauren but complain? Because they didnt change things fast enough for you… Dying to know your sign…
Well, sorry if I don’t have the time to “occupy” as others do. I’m certainly not resting though, as most of my time is spent interning, volunteering and actively networking and sending out resumes…you know, all the things you have to do in actually looking for a job. I never said the movement was stupid and you may be right that it’s too early to really judge the longterm impact that it’s had. I still see it as more of a top-down creation though. Bad press could also be blamed, but my opinions come mostly from interviews I’ve heard with the protesters who are on the ground. They themselves don’t seem to be able to articulate what the movement is about half the time, other than to say “we’re here because we need jobs and there are no jobs”.
Scorpio Sun/Mercury/Mars/Venus/Uranus
Pluto in Libra
Don’t lecture me about passion and social justice.
I have pluto in libra too, and a sun pluto / mercury trine..
Im not lecturing you, but to have people come together making the most beautiful signs ive seen about equality and social justice. And just gathering, im still dont really believe its here.
People are finding out the truth
How many interviews have u seen? Where are you watching them from? A blk & white 1960′s 10 inch? The fact that this cancerian country even coalesed into a NYC protest means much for change. Let alone across the nation. And the world.
Alot of thethe world realizing all at the same time for the first time! The global antics going about. You have to give more credit where its due. I am so greatful to the universe that its here. And saddend by your Interpretation of social justice.
go lauren !!
gen x here – although i am uranus conjunct IC pluto jupiter and sun so this may be a contributing factor – but the suburban dream was always the nightmare i never wanted to have and since leaving home 25 years ago (LOL) have never lived in the suburbs – it’s not for me. Nor is having a mortgage when I could be having a lifestyle that enables me the freedom I require to be sane. Ditto the kids and the car. Having the husband was a wildcard as well. He’s great I’ll keep him but forget the rest of it. That’s for other people to do and be happy with. I know myself well enough that it would send me off the deep end. When I’m aged and weary I’ll grow up, settle down and that will be pleasant – in a country hamlet like on the TV with an eccentric doctor or policeman and maybe with pets.
I think Gen Y – and I spend a lot of time with them because I work in youth oriented industries – have a lack of choice. It’s sad for the ones who want to “live the dream” but I think for those who may not want that, it will make it easier for them to make the choice not to without the mindless pressure to conform and “grow up and settle down” that I endured. At least they have an excuse not to. No affordable housing, high cost of living, petrol and transport = apartment living and walking to work – if they have a job.
This is more about the comments below than yours but I can’t be bothered going down there and picking through the carcass of the post so I’m putting it here. Gen Y has its social and cultural issues but every generation does – we were nihilist slackers, who are we to judge now that we’ve suddenly apparently become motivated? Boomers have their own issues – we’re all fuqed in our own ways. We need to push through all that and come together though. NOW.
Yes I agree whatevs, we do all need to come together and support all the generations! Ho!
hello lovely, it seems so long since I’ve been here, I get back and suddenly everyone’s turned on each other !!! Amazing. How’s things in your brand new world?
Uranian change is imminent, leaving new job, and place of relocatiin, health and happiness proved to be more important! : ) how you goin lovely?
OHHH that’s eerie because suddenly (as of a few weeks ago) I want to go “to hell with everything” and do something else that has nothing to do with anything!!! But for me I think that’s just a phase because I have just ended transiting uranus opposing sun – it’s the classic mid life crisis transit when everyone goes to india to regroup. At least you tried it right? That was a brave move. I hope your health is OK. It’s sometimes better to be close to infrastructure and support networks if you have something to work through that’s for sure. I did what you did a few years ago and within a week in the new location was having sudden cat scans and mad illness issues – I felt empowered by my geographical distance and got off on dealing with it on my own though. I wouldn’t let anyone come and look after me – like a cat when it takes itself away to be sick and it all ended up being fine luckily. Also think it’s quite ballsy to have the courage to make the return and own that it didn’t work out for you for whatever reason
good luck with whatever it is you do next. My life has been insane thanks for asking – I’ve done more in the last few months than I would normally cram into a year. I’ve only just finished this week wading through things and am now looking back and thinking holy shit how did i get that done? Life feels empty now there’s nothing but the skeletal routine left….
i meant uranus opposing uranus not sun up there in the mid-life sentence btw
Ah thanks whatevs, its interesting different people have different experiences, whatever is empowering is surely the better thing to do. For me to know I don’t want to be isolated or re traumatised through my work has also been empowering. Congrats on achieving more than you thought you would, often when we look back retrospectively we can see the herculean efforts we have made, I think I’ll be doing that too. Bless ya cotton socks xxx
agreed. Lucklily they maybe free of having to live the status quo that we rebelled against. The old American Dream of a nice house, white pickett fence, 2.5 kids and a dog are dashed for the GEN Y.
exactly – they can own their going against the grain without having to be apologist (or not!) about it
Bring it on kids..All us gen Xers are fat and depressed now. Dealing with even more changes that somehow the big biz factories and govt bodies have done to make our lives even worse than they were before. I am so sick of it all.
So kids, I am counting on you. Go crazy, smash the state and change the world! YEAH!
I’m Pluto in Libra, I live and work in NYC, in fact I share close workspace with a Pluto in Scorpio who lives on Wall St – which, by the way, is much more residential and non-financial now than in years passed, but I digress on the generally Neptune-ish nature of the reporting on occupy … anyhoo … I agree that this “movement” is NOT a Pluto in Scorpio movement, however I disagree that it is a Pluto in Libra movement. It’s NOT that either. Pluto in Libra has been dispersed and gathering our strength in a focused albeit dissolute way. My generation is cast about the country, bonding ourselves to partners who would not have been considered bondable in a previous generation. Pluto in Scorpio will be supported from without by the chromatic, somewhat Uranian quality Pluto in Libra and yes, this is all a direct confrontation to Pluto in Leo, and may I add that the occupy movement has an apologistic flavor of “what the Pluto in Leo generation fears, acquiesces to, and would like excuse for.” Is it anti-banker, anti-govt, anti-Obama, anti-capitalist? No, it’s a top-down and well-funded art project that has achieved pet status by its patriarchs, to be beheld and commented upon. Pure Neptune in Aquarius, the deceit of commonality when filtered by the power-holding Pluto in Leo. Everyone stop and look at how universal I am! Love, Peace, Chicken Grease!!! Money for All!! BLAHHHH The hypocrisy must utterly infuriate Pluto in Scorpio.
I must add that the “chromatic” nature of Pluto in Libra is a natural defense mechanism of the data-mining technology of the modern age…if the marketers can model you based on demographics, fuck it, and more importantly, fuck them, be as unpredictable as possible. I am proud to say that my children’s DNA will be very much different from anything the world has ever seen and I hope that the Plutonic overlords choke on their ox bones over what my generation has founded. Yes, founded.
I like the way you’ve stepped outside and are looking in. All revolutions have been funded by shadowy figures in the background swathed in finery. I also like your “bonded to people who would have previously been unbondable” I was unbondable until I met the aquarian with his pluto in libra exactly conjunct my sun. I wish you and your hybrid brood well
virgo pluto/uranus conjunct sun in libra
Ha! Love it! Yes be unpredictable!
There was something decidedly unrevolutionary about the Occupy movement that nagged me. “Top down well-founded art project” just about sums it up. It all seemed a little too neat and tidy for me, following the formula of all the “anti” movements that had gone before, giving the appearance of change without really changing anything.
Agreed. There’s no fire, they’re just sitting their, waiting for the change to happen.
sorry, *there
You could tell because the police were so lenient and tolerant of them being there for so long. In Philadelphia in the US where I am, the so-called deadline for the eviction of the protesters came and went and the police did nothing. Slowly, people were eventually rounded up and either sent on their way or sent to jail. No riots, no negotiations, not even a good motivational speech on a soapbox that could be recorded in the history books. Disappointing.
Sitting? As a NYC resident.. There taking up space in your and others conciousness. Changing it,
it will be back, winter has just cooled things off a bit. After 6 more months of struggle and strife for the american people it will be back bigger and better next spring, by summer way more people will be hot under the collar.
So much for arm chair analystis.. Its a great movement and did alot in a little time.. What are you a gemini or libra seem to miss the scope of occupying ive seen..
Waiting for the change? There assesing the situation.
Would you go blazing into a police force and justice system willling to slap a felony on you for heavy handing an officer. Or using chemical weapons, and tactics/ items used by the military.
There just showing the armchair revolutionarys and the people still stuck in the rat race whats possible, there showing themselves whats possible.
This generation has never done this before so give em some time, there up agianst alot more than any other protesters, and i seen way more signs more beautiful and true than i need a job.
They projected the words love, and do not be afraid, we are winning on a corporate windowless building. The best advertising i have ever seen in public. I always said i hated the way not one public bilboard or ad ever displayed a shred of positive though provoking wording and finally it happend. Even more amazingly than paying for a blank space, they used the face of one of the plutocrats $castles…
Anyway to the people who didnt get enough from the end of summer to autum movement. Go be busy…
I think the occupy movement is fuqing fantastic, I think the message is loud and clear, peep who don’t get it I don’t understand, they must be living in another reality! We as humans are being fuqed over every day with our most basic resources food water earth and air, not only us but every living being on this planet, for what? For the gigantic profits and power of a few pffft!
Yea some may not even know the scope of the ish going on but if you show up…. You will know as there are people well versed, so those that did show up for a job protest learns it runs much deeper, learns about love about others struggles say a union worker and a student in debt to a mothers life ruined by a short stint of prescription drug abuse by a lazy doctor that keeps prescribing for profit. To people that had a foreclosed home all have been raped by the same establishments… People are catching on and im very proud of my country for once. And all the others who also showed support. We can and will make a fairer system, we will not live by pluto in leo set ups!
Or pluto in virgos lifetime relationship with the medical industry and there made up diseases. Or there with work for just works sake with no real substance to why your even doing the work other than to be slave to excessive uncreative routine….
I have to say this discussion has been fantastic. And dividing generations by Pluto transits has been a great lesson in astrology and helped me understand the unique character of generations a bit better. And its helped me define maturity a bit better, which is to say a mature attitude is when you don’t take things personally. That said, the dividing lines are illusions. I, Pluto in Libra, was influenced by my Pluto in Cancer Dad.
I also think we are a bit like fish talking about water – meaning we are immersed in a change that we are trying to understand.
The move from the paper world to the digital one is to me the most fantastic, awe-inspiring transitions of our species. Its changed our relationship to space, time, nation-state, authority and each other. Its how I am discussing this with you – around the world – now, without passports or permissions. I can’t wait for Neptune in Pisces when we all begin to FEEL what our power of communication really MEANS in terms of interconnectedness.
I worry about the Pluto in Scorpio generation because I don’t think they have the view on the transition. Meaning – the institutions that exist now CANNOT give them the jobs they want because the institutions NOW are still stuck in the transtion from paper-world to digital. Their jobs don’t wholly exist yet. They must define them. So, if they are all-or-nothing about power, they must realize that it is up to them to define power. No instituion can give it to them. I think they are up for the task, but I also think its important for them to realize that power is a concept and one that is up for grabs in an unprecendent, undefined way in our time now.
Time moves so much faster now. And I respect the dedication of the many commenters on this blog who are getting PhDs. But I question the return on that investment. I know places where you get salary based on degree-earned – yet speak nothing of merit. I don’t think advanced education as a business model, personal or collective, can hold up much longer. Meaning, our institutions – including educational institutions and print publication cycles – aren’t moving quickly enough to register changes in the temperature of the water, so to speak. PhDs in liberal arts, imho, are pursuits of validation. And we no longer have institutions that can validate us. Times have changed. The book I could write now would be old news in a year. The cycles are moving faster now. State department recognizes Facebook at the 4th or 5th largest country in the world. If that’s a country, its a country without a space or a border. We’ve carved out new territories that authorities don’t rule. That anyone who creates can create and rule. That’s what is happening NOW.
At the same time, the lessons of liberal arts – discernment, critical thinking, are more important than ever. It isn’t that education needs to stop – but the idea that we need to pay gatekeepers for our education is something I question. And I don’t expect Pluto in Sagittarius will think the same way about college as I did, born in a paper-based world as a Pluto in Libra.
My main point is – there is no short-cut to the “love” you talk about – the return to the basis of our lives, stripped of all authority except that which is inherent in our being. I watched a great Koren movie “Castaway on the Moon” last night that made a good point about essential life. Meaning, everyone has power based on the fact they exist. The hierachy – seen or not – has ALREADY collapsed. Now, its a matter of living sanely with our resources.
The biggest collective job I see is in building/remodeling our infrastructure to support this change. I don’t know how it will happen, only that it already has been happening for the past few decades – without leadership or central design.
I hope, for all their power, intensity, and all-or-nothing attitudes, Scorpios have a taste for anarchy, because, really, that’s where we are now – redefining power/authority and what it is worth. You can be sad or mad about what generations before did, but, really, the task is in the building now.
so much to agree with here – especially the bit about creating your own job. Not to underestimate how difficult that is – but as you seem to be saying, these jobs cannot exist in the current way things are, the their very creation will help to bring about the necessary changes. Much food for thought.
Thank you for this comment. Absolutely amazing, some of your words are EXACTLY what I needed to read.
I’m a 1984 Pluto in Scorp, and I’m finding it hard being one of the forerunners of the generation – trying to play in the “real” world when everything in me is telling me to break out.
It IS up to us to define power. It’s up to me. And at the moment (it’s bound to change) I define my power as living by my morals and ethics regardless of whether or not that seems like a logical, reasonable thing to do.
New attitude, new world (any day now…)
Big thank yous and love x
I was thinking the other day that the Pluto (& Uranus) in Virgo people are probably going to be rattling some cages with Mars pinging back and forth across them for the next seven months. It should be interesting.
Although I’m a Pluto in Virgo (1966), I also do have Pluto conjunct Uranus. Maybe that’s why the OWS movement resonates with me: never satisfied with the status quo!
I don’t know what generation I’m in (1964). I did hear someone refer to ’62-69 at the ‘Lost’ generation meaning it was lost to demographics and marketers. What a relief. That explains it.
as
Really.. sigh, that explains it!
I know Pluto in Scorpio (natal 12th) meant I was lost.. particularly the 80′s component, but have never heard that general description before.
I know, I have thought that myself. I have read lots of articles that just don’t even mention us, some that put us with the baby boomers and others that put us with generation X. That leaves us the wonderful liberty to invent ourselves and our own agenda without any reference to any other generational agenda. No one tutting us as over indulgent boomers, burned out X-ers or pesky Y-ers. I personally think it’s fabulous.
And I don’t really think generation Y’s are as bad as I have heard some people waxing lyrically about. It’s just their take on the world and the lessons we have taught them manifesting as the generation gap. Every generation whinges about the one following after having spent their time in the light as the new innovators. It’s just the world turning and I think some of them are fantastic. Even Socrates complained about the generation following him, so it has all been whinged about before.
You (and me) are X. We had the highest youth unemployment rate of any generation – not laziness, lack of jobs – and AIDS happened etc, so that was bye-bye free love. We saw Reagan and Thatcher and stagflation and the incapacity of governments to deal with it while we were still in high school; our adult lives have been pocked by years of “economic restructuring”since the 80s.
If we were “lost” it was because we saw the best of the high Pluto in Leo ideals come to nil, and then watched them implement user-pays and workplace policies and credentialism they never would have had to put up with. We were the recession generation – much more pessimistic/nihilistic and a whole lot less narcissistic than either Gen Baby Boomer or Gen Y.
IMHO, Gen Y has a sense of entitlement and lack of sense of social responsibility and passive agg that makes the Baby Boomers (who make me ill) look good: and employers agree. God bless naive Gen Y of Pluto in Libra persuasion – they decided that the work life balance matters – good on em. Problem is, the economy hasn’t caught up with them, and never will: in fact, it’s moving in the opposite direction. They want promotions much quicker than even Baby Boomers did, and they’re not as good as they think they are, apparently, so they can’t produce the productivity required by modern firms within the hours they would like to work. So they blame the employer, who is, after all, simply another lemming trying to obtain the edge that will keep him in business, in a world where people in developing countries with degrees get paid half the money to do the same work. So in other words, there’s no villain; not Gen Y, and not employers: the key logic of capitalism is increase profitability or be pushed out of business or bought out when your share price drops. Gen Y believes life should be fair. That’s their problem: like Libra, they don’t get it. Life isn’t fair.
Pluto in Scorp gen? Very, very damaged and yet to be reborn. Honesty? Ethics? Basically, these days, at uni, it is a question of if you can get away with cheating, do it – at school , too I gather, where rich parents get private tutors to do coursework for money so little darling gets a good uni entrance score. Damage, emotionally, seems particularly rank amongst girls, about whom I have major concerns borne out by all the sociology stats and research: body image concerns rank ever higher, given that most of both sexes have become well acquainted with internet porn by pre-pubescence; giving head is not considered sex by them, but it’s girls, and not boys, that are under pressure to do it while in early teen years or else they are labelled frigid (same rules do not apply to boys of course); bullying a huge problem now fuelled by social media; little sign that girls are actually empowering themselves to fight the increasingly sexualised sterotypes they were fed by everything from Video Hits on Saturday morning….so many are buying into the need to be a porn queen. Maybe when they turn 30. IMHO, it’s not usually til then that repressed damage that has not already been dealt with really starts asserting itself and demanding healing.
I have uber amounts of Scorp in my own chart, so am not anti-Scorp in any way. They may all turn out to be amazing once they hit the transformation point, but I have friends with kids of this generation who are frightened by the rank darwinism and cruelty they see their kids subjected to..and I say this as one of Gen X who was bullied as an adolescent….what is going on now seems much, much worse, as there is no safe haven at home – thank you, narcissism-book (oops, facebook).
Yet hi-Scorpio (like lo Scorpio) KNOWS in its guts that life/relationships/who gets what in power and politics and at work is not fair. So I see lo-Pluto in Scorpio types deciding to do what ever it takes to survive and prosper in a corrupt world, and bugger the Judeo-Christian ethic; and hi-Scorp types eventually saying fuq the system of sexual and political oppression, even if it means annihilation or going solo for long periods. We’ve seen this in the Middle East lately. Incredible, quiet courage to risk being whisked away by secret police – some would say lunacy – amongst young people willing to die rather than take oppression.
WOW. You make me proud of being a Sagg, Fi.
So lucid. The Big Picture.
Yes a Pluto in Lib Gen Y here and I wish the world was fair.
Balance, the model has to be changed.
I am a Pluto in Virgo Gen X and agree the workplace and life should be fair.
Agree with some. But not all. I am a late 70′s pluto in libra allegedly x-y cusp. Work life balance DOES matter, maybe not to the very large profit-focused employers but to the individuals. Perhaps more in australia than other places. It matters to me: fuck work, if it expects me to believe that my employer is worth watching my life pass by without me. Stories abound of people leaving their tiresome full time job to find fulfilment and more time for their families in their own business or a more flexible model.
Fairness DOES matter. Maybe not to the neo-liberal market economists trying to dupe the world that this is the way of the future, but to everyone else on the planet with a conscience. Why else would people be getting so sick of the bullshit they are fed and seek social revolution? Why would people leave oppressive countries, cultures, and seek freedom elsewhere?
I understand this is the perspective of someone with the benefit of a good education in a wealthy country and plenty of opportunity. But I have to form an opinion somehow and this is currently it.
But I DEF agree with the comments about screwed up culture being fed to young women. Not Cool.
Not sure if I slightly mistook what you were saying. Re pluto in lib gen y at work. Anyway.
think you might have: I totally agree that work life balance matters…and that things should be fair. But they aren’t, and will not be, in our lifetimes at work, period, except for those with truly exceptional and rare skill-sets. What passes for “productivity improvements” generally means longer hours and bringing work home – the stats show it – and that is really bad for mental health, physical health, and relationships. Gen Y have grokked that work life balance is key to being happy, but according to the stats, they keeping changing jobs in hope of finding flexibility and reasonable hours only to find that in most industries that pay a reasonable amount, it is not possible to do what is asked of them in reasonable hours.
ie they have yet to grokk that you can’t have it all, just as it took the boomers and gen x a while to grokk that very few women can indeed have it all (the high paying full-time career/ the happy-sexy love relationship that lasts/the well-adjusted and thriving kids) since men and employers and the tax/transfer system have yet to catch up, and there is only so much time/energy any one woman can have to do all three things well.
Always love your analysis fi… also gen y…. Pluto in scorp… grew up w john Howard in Australia, and a regression of social values, he canned political correctness, which in my opinion was about educating people on the correct language to use in empowering the rights of minorities and WOMEN, he got rid of many women’s services and funding for domestic violence services has suffered great since 1996. Moreover, this was the rise of the fundamentalist Christians in the US along with bush and his war on everything…. gen y has grown up with these core values, many I know are very informed (www) entitled apathetic think every system is fucked and are searching for answers to climate change primarily while stuck in what they see as created by baby boomers and passively accepted by gen x. I’m.a gen x Pluto in lib 73′ and fi’s explanations help me to understand my gen, someone told me a while ago, bb, they lost their job in the economic collapse in early 90s and changed careers, I didn’t even notice it, taking LSD, studying, working low paid work and walking everywhere, when you’re working poor there is always an economic crisis!
Totally agree. We kind of lost it when Howard came in. The casualization of employment has been very detrimental to out generation I believe. Just feel we dont have the same security as BB’s.
They are currently sitting on their goldmine houses, they didnt necessarily work harder for it. the prices of houses sky rocketed. Grr
Pluto in Scorp here, and definitely see where there is entitlement and sincerely hoping that the rest of my Pluto in Scorp comrades will be more haute when they rebirth. Whenever that’ll be. My best friend, though I love him, can drive me crazy with his sense of entitlement. Lives at home for free but complains incessantly about how much his mom bothers him. Goes to work and is completely disrespectful to his managers because they get on his nerves too, but he doesn’t even get reprimanded!!! It drives me crazy because the last job I had, I was basically told to go because I was too quiet. Yet my friend is rude to his seniors and he just gets promoted! Sigh…
One of my college professors rants a lot about my generation and how they just throw things away. They’ll sign up for classes and then just stop showing without bothering to drop/withdraw. They’re wasting their opportunities and money and it isn’t just unbelievable to him, it’s unbelievable to me. I admit I was lazy with my schoolwork in high school simply because I didn’t care, but as soon as I started college I knew I had to get my act together. High school is free, but college is costing me an arm and a leg. I’m adamant about getting my work done and this past semester I’d only let myself miss one day (and a half, thanks to a sudden migraine).
Around my generation some people do seem to think that they’ll get all the rewards without actually doing the work. That things should, and will, be handed to them simply because, well why not? Either that or they just don’t care… But either way, I’d love to see where my generation will be when we hit our 30s-40s and up. Hopefully we’ll phoenix!
BTW, I have to say I think there is a movement of gen y generation that are empowered informed won’t put up with crappy know their rights are fighting for environmental justice are not afraid to say the raw blunt violent truth of humans monopoly of the planet are in ya face straightedge and have deeply considered ‘morals’ for want of a different word, I think this gen is a force to be reckoned with, they are the transformers! Behold!
pluto in scorpio Gen Y here and I think that work and life should be fair too.
i agree somewhat with your assessment that my generation is damaged though. and you forget to factor in massive generational differences caused by media – not just the fact that kids are using facebook at the age of 7 or whatever but all the BS shooting and violent computer games. by the time we’re 18 we’ve killed thousands of people – ‘fictional’ people of course.
and we grew up at the height of the Rand-ian social experiment, the Howard reich, cracking down on ‘dole bludgers’ because blue-collar entry-level jobs have evaporated, ‘fortress Europe’, the war on terror… shit. so it’s not hard to see why there is a social darwinist streak in our generation – we have been ordered to make lemonade or die.
i don’t think my generation has to be like this. i think we need older generations, the less selfish (what remains of them) of the baby boomers, the pluto in virgo and pluto in librans who remember a fairer world need to teach us how to exercise compassion.
Well here’s my two cents worth ….
As a Pluto in Virgo teenager growing into adulthood I recall feeling an increasing sense of disconnect between this all consuming Pluto in Leo generational culture that we’d inherited. It was such a weird message – drop out, tune in, hippy rah rah rebirthing crap followed by extreme yuppiedom and an almost forced consumption orientation.
These “boomers” thrived on the excesses of culture and perhaps in the 60s it had some kind inherent meaning … but by the time the 80s rolled around it was just a disgusting display of Low Leo – shallow, image obsessed, vacant and basically pretty bloody stupid. Primarily because the fuckers were spoiled – booming economy, free education, cheap housing and entry level jobs that led to somewhere even without an education.
These guys closed the market on the next generation in all areas of life via government and business policies that they themselves were not subject to:
- you can’t get a job without a degree (they could)
- you can’t progress in a career without education (they did)
- you can’t buy a house in a reasonable area (they did AND created a negative gearing tax so they could suck up more of the housing market)
- you can’t get a free education (they did)
- the stock market is where free market rules show (nup not now with their insider trading, locked market financial schemes)
To my mind this entire generation are the most short sighted, utterly selfish example of how Leo energy can go really, really WRONG! And yet they preen and pat themselves on the back because they wrote a few cool songs and schleped it to India to fuck about in some dodgy ashram to find their inner bloody self when half the population around them were barely capable of feeding themselves.
I think Pluto in Virgo peeps are only NOW just coming of age. Virgo is a conservative and a bit of a rule following, people pleasing sign. I think we all cowtowed to the Pluto in Leo generation for years – didn’t help that policies almost forced us. It’s only recently for example that I’ve noticed my female friends shunning makeup and excessive attention to clothes, hair and appearance. Twenty years ago we wouldn’t have dared leave the house without warpaint on.
It’s only now that I see people of my generation leaving the corporate workforce paradigm in droves – either because of job loss, redundancy or by choice (for me it was choice). Sick to death of all the bullshit heirarchical nonsense that seems inherent in large organisations. We prefer small, lean, efficient ways of making money and making use of our time.
I think we have more to see of Pluto in Virgo influence over the next twenty years, in partnership with Gen Y – who we will support and encourage, treat as equals and share ideas with. Virgo is anything but selfish …. good times.
As for the Pluto Leos. Don’t expect me to wipe yer arse in retirement – I’m too busy mopping up the mess you left everywhere else!
WOW great rant. So many good points!
you. rock.
agreed.
i’m a pluto libra, so what is it in my chart that wants me to become a pluto leo CEO assassin?
Ditto, great.
Hear, hear! My Pluto in Virgo applauds you – great rant!
Boy prowincrab, that is a bit more than two cents worth.
I don’t know about you, but I always felt that baby boomers looked down on us as not being true to our rebellious adolescence-20′s and that no one could innovate-individuate like them. From my perspective, we watched them espouse wonderful ideals and then drop them quick smart. We/I are more interested in taking those high ideals and translating them into a great and ethical life in a more immediate and personal way rather than grand overt public gestures. And of course, generation Y can see right through them. I think that is why generation Y resonates with us.
I don’t think anyone has to be assassinated (totally old skool). We put our energies into the positive, into what we want for ourselves and would hope will help and assist generations to come. Not only humans, but animals, ecology, environments. We only look back to work out what not to do and what wasn’t helpful.
In other words the Virgo/Libra/Scorp generations will be far more capable of going beyond “what’s in it for me??” to a dialogue about “what’s in it for us all?”
Jen Scorpio – I entirely agree with you. Virgo and Scorp have no interest in blowing hot air and espousing wonderful ideas or values without actually applying them in a useful and meaningful way. Virgo hates excess and lack of efficiency. Scorpio just can’t stand bullshit and sees through it with one eye opened and hands tied behind their back. Libra of course – the balancer, the one that espouses temperance in all things carries the charge of avoiding extremism and totalitarianism.
Ok yeah … my fifty bucks worth!
yep prowln – as a pluto and uranus in virgo i couldn’t agree more. i watch what is happening in universities as the pluto in leo gen who are now deans and vc’s push impossible workloads/student loads that they never had to deal with onto us pluto in virgo’s who keep the place humming and I honestly don’t think my health with take it til they all retire….so thinking about buying a caravan and a generator (electricity prices are going to skyrocket), and writing incendiary freelance stuff, on a beach somewhere, and fuck all organisations…
“schleped it to India to fuck about in some dodgy ashram to find their inner bloody self when half the population around them were barely capable of feeding themselves”
ahahahahaha….
AWESOME!!!! hell yeah, Pluto in Leo, Pluto in Virgo will be your nursemaid as your livers collapse from their overfed scaffolding in old age, and oh yes, they have kept a diary of your transgressions.
Magnificent!!! PC, please write a book. Voice record it, i’ll do the dactylo for free
& can fully testify re the degree-experience-qualifications chess board demotivational strategy being played by HR (Human Robotics) in the most dehumanising ways, especially since Pluto in Cap. That one’s just phenomenal. Yep, no normal entries for us lot.
It’s not fair, this Pluto & Uranus in Libra says.
yes, indeed the mainstream world in the 80′s was excess, lots of cocaine and booze and those horrible power suits for women with padded shoulders. I loved the counter culture of the 80′s though.
They lived it up yet, expect the next generations to jump through flaming hoops of fire just to get a foot in the door.
Are you GenX or Y prowlincrab?
Gen X
Dig your 50 bucks worth
was born oct ’89 so my chart picked up both of the major generational influences at the time, 8th house Scorp Pluto with Neptune/Saturn/Uranus conjunct in cap
one thing I’ve noticed is we’re all huge on recycling and rage at the large group of 40- something’s who just can’t be bothered. it just seems so basic to us, considering how simple it is. environmental care in general is one of our main priorites, far more than our predecessors, it seems. however this may be our Neptune in cap. we’re also immune to the media machine. no one is going to tell us how to think. we fact check ourselves and draw our own conclusions.
will most likely lead the revolution that brings about long-lasting change and survive when all others have failed to adapt. we WILL find a way to continue living on earth, cleaning up the mess previous generations have created, and yes, it may involve living underground, for a while anyway, unless we like it there. there’s some really intriguing underground architecture and landscaping being created in abandoned subway systems, so no, underground doesn’t have to be dark and brooding, unless you like it that way. we’ll channel solar energy and create machines to eat up all the pollutants in the oceans and when the earth has done her glorious dance of cleansing we’ll come back and start brand new. figuring out the health remedies of new plant species, and inventing new recipes for all the fascinating new nouns the earth has sprung up. we’ll be self-sustaining, as we always have been but on a global scale in every realm. we’ll do all this because we thrive in the circumstances others run away from.
don’t worry guys, we’re gonna save the world!
ugh. that last sentence is too pretentious for my liking after a moment’s thought. I mean, there’s really nothing more dangerous than a person who wants to “save” the world so correction: don’t worry guys, we’re gonna bring about sustainable change! …that’s better, and much more accurate
This anti-baby boomer ranting is getting right up my nose! As I’m a baby boomer with Pluto in Libra, I do want to point out that not all of us were or are like that. We own our own home, it is modest and we have never over-extended ourselves. I have never subscribed to the idea of continuing good, expansive times because I’ve looked at economic history and I’ve been predicting for years that a bust would come. But look, I’m going to have a good old fuqin’ rant of my own because I’m sick to death of all the guilt trips being laid on us baby boomers. We can remember the hard times after the war. I played with food coupons in London, I played on bomb sites, I listened to my parents talking of the friends they lost through bombs and their own close shaves. I saw my parents work bloody hard to provide for me and we were a generation who also worked bloody hard. Yes, there may have been complete wankers but so there are in any generation. All this rub-a-dub-dub shit going on about generation differences is absolute, absolute CRAP! The responsibility lies with the huge financial corporations and banks and armaments corps and armies who have stuffed the financial system. So concentrate on the few, the 1% who really fuqed things up, and don’t start squabbling about ourselves about the 99% who are NOT responsible for the economic crisis. If the rich paid their way, if wars stopped, if corporations paid decent wages instead of ripping off developing nations and stopped hopping around the world for the cheapest wages and worst working conditions, if multinational corporations stopped ripping off farmers, if oil companies stopped polluting the waters, we’d all be able to cope. Yes, it does require each of us to step back and stop consuming as we have done. But don’t bloody well blame us baby boomers as if we are homogenous, it gives me the shits, folks. Divide and rule, or we stand together and create a better world. My first ever Libran rant on MM, I think Pluto’s got me and I feel like giving him a damned good hug. And just to wind up, just remember that what you rant on about in others is what you need to look at in yourself.
You can’t have Pluto in Libra and be a boomer! Do you mean Neptune in Libra?
Nope, I meant Pluto in Leo.
It’s not a personal attack Libraquarius … we’re talking about generational attitudes here – and the baby boomer era led to the the kind of noxious banking/financial/governmental stuff you’re talking about in a global way.
Of course I don’t hold individuals personally responsible – my last little snip was at the “greys” party most of whom are demanding more in retirement to uphold the lifestyle they are fond of but can’t afford anymore.
Yes, it is. I am reading wild generalisations and a sort of sneering, superior attitude to my generation and it stinks. I have never made generalisations about any generation, I think each one has its own problems and challenges so to make sweeping generalisations – without having lived through or experienced the problems each generation has – is totally out of order. In each generation there are a wide variety of people and I think the blame game is a superficial lack of real investigation of the reality behind the financial circumstances of each generation. I don’t want to open what are normally respectful conversations to find bitter rants about my or any other generation. I find all this “you had it harder than us”, “no, we’re doing it harder than you”, is real crap. If we get into arguments about ourselves, we miss the main point – get focused on the 1%, stop the squabbling between the 99%. Get a perspective on what is happening in our world, and it ain’t helped by finger-pointing at different generations.
I was one of the one’s who couldn’t get a job on account of my lack of experience and my lack of a degree. So I got some qualifications. Oh great – but no experience. So I did volunteer work – oh great but not enough qualifications. So I got a degree – oh great but not enough qualifications.
Quite frankly you can get off your fucking high horse because me and all my friends who went through uni heard the same tripe OVER AND OVER. And if you don’t like hearing the goddam truth then that’s your problem.
I have tried to be polite.
HMPH
The point is, prowlncrab, that I haven’t been on my fucking high horse about other generations – EVER. Each generation has their own problems and challenges, but if we sit around in each generation saying how morally superior we are, it’s divisive and gets us nowhere. No, I didn’t have a HECS debt because I went to university in the UK. I had a minimum grant because my parents were dirt poor and I lived very frugally as in those days you simply didn’t get a job, it wasn’t acceptable. I didn’t play around or waste those days in tertiary education because I knew it was a privilege. But in those days too it was hard for women to find decent work because women’s rights hadn’t arisen. So don’t start telling me that I make comments about other generations because I don’t. What I do do is suggest that people like you don’t make wild generalisations about other generations too because you ain’t been there or walked in their shoes, so until you do, don’t generalise.If you want to shoot your mouth off, expect to get some sort of response. Normally if I don’t like something, I don’t say anything for the sake of peace, but perhaps next time you feel like firing off posts like the one above, you might think twice and try for a little consideration.
nope I stand by every single thing I said. I am just annoyed at myself for the way in which I delivered it and for getting pissed off enough to fire off a missive in all caps (uncool).
oH AND I SUPPOSED YOU DON’T HAVE A RIDICULOUS TAX BURDEN DUE TO HAVING TO PAY HECS
DO YOU??
sorry I’m devolving into the very thing I can’t stand. Yelling and carrying on because the message is being deliberately misheard and misconstrued reminds me of arguments with my mother.
*bowing out*
(Ahem)
If y’all don’t mind me saying so, I seem to remember that the Boomers had a saying: Don’t trust anyone over 30.
Their slogan has come around to bite them in the ass, that’s all.
Not that my generation (X) is much better. Having seen the Boomers fail to change the world… and arguably, changed it for the worst, we generally do not believe that massive change is possible, so for the most part, we don’t try. On the other hand, in a sick society, disengagement is sometimes an appropriate response.
But all of this is an inevitable generational cycle, so don’t sweat it too hard. I recommend a reading of “The Fourth Turning” by William Strauss. The bad news is that societal upheaval is on the horizon… the good news is that the next (unborn) generation will pull themselves up by their bootstraps and begin anew.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss-Howe_generational_theory
This argument here between friends is such a shame but the perfect place for me to show my respect to the baby boomers… and then a little gen x reflection. My baby boomers parents as many bb’s were part of a massive movement of social change, lest we forget! I am proud and eternally grateful for the rights they won for us, for breaking down crap Christian principles embedded in society that made everybody a deviant if not abided by. I agree it has more to do with the capitalist machine than a generation, and most bb’s I know have been fighting this system since the 60s. All generations have tragedies that are complicit during their time and we can see that gen x has lived and grown up through some global atrocities that when added together count for much more loss than the holocaust. We all get the wool pulled over our eyes while we try to survive, and our young now are also experiencing this, let us speak in the language that we can understand and show compassion for our fellow humans, how else do we grow and change!
biffing is a normal part of friendship … if we can’t have a bit of an ideological biff without getting sanctioned or sent to our corners then we lose the opportunity to agree to disagree – one of the most valuable lessons I have learnt in life. We also lose the opportunity to PASSIONATELY debate different ideas and yet still like the person we were passionately debating with once we’ve cooled off and decided that, whilst our disagreements may still hold water, it’s really not worth bearing an ongoing grudge.
I’m glad libraquarius said stuff about me “shooting my mouth off”. I’m glad I said “get off your high horse”. We were both being true to ourselves and honest. But we’re grown ups and we’ll get over it.
Actually, I must ruefully admit that I went bonkers with the biffo because the airconditioning switch on our Subaru went on the blink and it’ll cost quids to fix just as we’re trying to sell it; and our stove blew up which will also cost quids to fix just as we’re close to selling the house and we’re skint. Absolutely skint. And as we are close to signing a contract on our home, my husband has gone off into barking mad Manic Moving & Packing Mode, so the whole bloody house is being packed around my ears and I’m feeling somewhat STRESSED!!!!
So all the stuff about baby boomers being well off and self-centred was like lighting a grenade and stuffing it down my throat, sorry for the overkill.
I’m going to say something else because of my perspective through my days as a communist. I’ve studied Marx, Engels, Lenin and Mao in detail, their comments on the principles of capitalism – that profit is the driving force but that the need for profit eventually leads to overkill and stagnation by driving out competitors and creating greater monopoly – is true. The other thing is that, whatever your astro persuasion, you’re part of the economic circumstances with which you grow up and it affects your thinking, whether you like it or not. If you think about different societies, the way people approach life in India is quite different to how we approach life in Australia or the US, for example. I think we’re subjected to a con job in the West – you too can get rich. Only it’s won’t happen because the head honchos make damned sure legislation works in their favour and not in favour of the great majority. But, in the US, for example, this trend is so gross, people have just said: “Enough is enough”. On the other hand, all the commo stuff about needing one political party is in the past. You can’t control people’s thoughts in a monolithic way, not with the explosion of the internet and technology and so on. And I don’t reckon you ever should. So I reckon the end times in one sense are coming due, and it’s affecting all generations because economic hard times affect everyone, but on the other hand, we are finding new ways to operate society, to return to community, even if we have to be dragged kicking and screaming towards this different way of living. From a Libran peacemaker point of view, it would be good to effect peaceful change, it’s why I couldn’t remain a commo because revolution sounds okay but, as Liz Greene says, you may set out with good intentions but the intellectual approach of “to make an omelette you’ve got to break a few eggs” can in hindsight have a godawful effect on individuals, groups and society. The other reason for quitting as a commo is that I don’t know how many cosmic messages and lectures I’ve received about teaching about the power of love. It’s quite obvious that’s my work. So of course, I look at my monumental hissy fit and think: “Faaark, love went right out the window, didn’t it?” Good for the ego, and actually I did a type which said: “God for the ego”. So there ya go, instant messaging from the cosmos
Love you two xxxx and yes you’re both right : )
I think that is so libra, dont take it personal. If your not like that then your could say astrologicaly or haute libra, i have not gone that route. But astrological influences and eras are that. There no finger pointing just a time were all chose to be born to figure out what the generation before us was up to.
I liked her rant and i thing its time for low pluto in leo generation to own up to there mistakes. Is all i think that would be pArt of your astrological evolution. If can own up to it. Not you. But i dont see only the 1 percent as low pluto in leo, i meet many that have no power over financial groups but still act like spoiled children that cant share.
I think libras are to general to to see if something is a generlisation or not, but if you wanna go pluto, it aint divide, its checks and balances. No squabbles but passionate time has come for low pluto in leo activity.
& I find libras are more peace keepers than makers.
My sister is one, and have loads of libra ascendant or moon guys that try to get me to think marriage is part of everyones life.
To get to the peace u gotta let the karmic gavel fall where it may. And the universe has bestowed some of us if we earned it, by shunning our low astro, to call it how we see/feel it.
And some are gonna call it a fight, but its that karmic gavel agian.
If anything libraquarius i look up to you and the beautiful art you make and the person you have become in such “pluto in leo astro choice condtions.
Thanks, Aqualeoscorpmn, what I find interesting is that it’s as if I HAD to follow the part of art, teaching, etc. Everything came to a grinding halt until I agreed to change direction, and it was very frightening and painful. I lost a lot of good friends who regarded me with contempt but it just seemed more important to follow what felt right deep in side me. And no-one’s perfect, I work on the peace issue because even the aggro between generations seems mis-directed, I keep saying it but we ARE in this boat together and it needs as many as possible on board to get together for a better future. But I do have to say that, as one who has hung out of the car window with bright purple hair and given the finger to someone who cut us up and nearly caused us to have a nasty car accident and yelled a few “f” words, I don’t get it right all the time. Interestingly, I watched a programme last night of four young people working with the elderly in British nursing homes, finding out people’s history, connecting with the elderly and becoming far more compassionate- like a guy who’d been a leading web designer and had a major stroke in his ‘fifties and is now totally immobilised; or the guy who did the forged documents for those who broke out of the internment camp in The Great Escape and is now also fairly immobilised by a stroke. Challenging programme and I hope to god I never end up totally paralysed by a stroke, but at 64 every day is a blessing, I guess.
The Greys were aliens.
Elders are called ‘Silvers’, more respectful.
Lolol! Silverbacks for the alpha types, silver foxes for the hunky types and silverfish for creepy type?
Well said LibA, I know so many thrifty, conscientious and ethical boomers who never had two cars or disposable nappies while they raised their families or bought into the debt paradigm etc. lt is 1% that make life ugly for the rest and I don’t know that I would have done much different if I had walked in my parents shoes even if it I want to say differently. And I do need to take a look at my life and how live frankly. Xx.
Pluto In Leo here & Neptune in Libra.
I remember a movie in the 60′s about putting anyone OVER 35 in
an enclosure ad/or spiking the daily drinking supply with LSD.
Forgot the name of it…..it was a B-Grade.
Denigrated ‘The Suits’ and only thought of ‘Feds or Heads’.
It’s all a masquerade anyway & hindsight’s 20-20 vision. (Songs by George Benton).
It’s the youths that love me, peeps my age seem to shun me. Sad but true.
Anyways i lived in far away countries that didn’t have the generational division
or animosity towards ages. EVERYONE had their place & were respected.
‘We stand together or fall for everything’. Marcus Aurelias.
What about ‘we are all alone in this together’..hahaha or ‘all together in this alone’.
Double joy for us
Dont trust anyone over the age of 30
Why not?
it was the catch cry from the 60′s.
Ah I see. Whoa.
“Yes, there may have been complete wankers but so there are in any generation.”
yes, I agree.
Every generation has it’s assholes. My baby boomer mom is very financially conservative and modest which I learned from her. She was disgusted also by materialism etc of the other baby boomers.
I maybe a Gen X/Slacker but, I have seen my Gen work it’s arse off to get somewhere as artists and yes, I recycle.
Our anger should be reserved towards the corrupt, greedy, irresponsible corporations and 1% affiliated with them.
We can all work together, stick together and rise up against the corruption.
I would like to point out that attitudes and people can change (and be influenced by planetary “vibes”) much more than they stay the same. I think the changing astro can more be thought of as indicative of broad zeitgeist rather than pigeonholing anyone.
Libraquarius – my parents are just like you and they are wonderful environmentalists. my mother sits on so many community boards and committees and cares so much for her community. I see a lot of baby boomer people that are like that. I think it is often a fruitless namecalling that goes on with generation wars. This is not about individuals but more about a change in atmosphere.
I am 32 and Yes I feel very frustrated that my whole life, those in power have called me (and continue to call me) “emerging” and too young. I think that our society is bad at bringing up the younger people, training, passing on valuable knowlege and having grace about that process. That is what is frustrating and leads to a lot of the hating on baby boomers.
A lot of people also rant against Gen Y – without much reason either.
The current political/economic situation is not reducible to good and bad along the faultlines of generation. I hope we can overcome such superficialities and work to salvage the world.
Well said, Balancing.
Totally agree with you, balancing, I’ve been quite taken aback by some of the ageist comments on this thread, including gloating about the difficult health challenges elderly people have. One day we’ll all get there, it’s just my view that we’re pretty much all in the same boat together.
Karma will settle the score when baby bloopers
start hitting the nursing homes.
So you are the expert on karma now? I hope not because you sound without much compassion. Have you been to a nursing home lately?
Sorry that was a bit harsh Stella, I lost my temper, you probably didn’t mean it how harsh I took it…
nope sorry Andromeda that was probably the most straight-on statement i’ve read from you.
Stella, there are lots of weak people who’ll be suffering in the ‘peace and calm tranquility of so-an-so nursing home’ because of their own weakness. Have some pity. They didn’t have the chance to grow up into the ‘monsters’ we are.
For fucks sake lighten up. If you can’t see by the icon I used on the tone that it was in good humour well then fuck right on off.
Hey, join the Plutonic dummy spitters club, Anonymous, I’ll make room for you
sorry but no i will not lighten up. i’ll have ALL the time in the world for that when i’m old, gray and chained to a fucking wheelchair.
& i can make a thousand jokes in light humor that you’d still find revolting
anyways, i was asking for compassion not for a fight. come on.
Well I got both vibes there, but you know doll you call this stuff in, you ought to be careful that your own karma is impeccable.. Something to remember.
What i don’t like about the pluto in leo generation – i know this is in general.
* that they have this smug thing going on that they are always right even when they’re mouthing outdated platitudes. Like property always doubles every ten years. Or that the last good music was in the 60s
* that they got educated for free and have nerve to bitch about youth of today not protesting or doing whatever they did – hello, it’s because they have to fund their own education!
* passing govt rules to force money into money market to fund their retirement because they were too busy doing their travel experiences, doing propaganda to espouse their boring values and dominating the media. I am so sick of seeing funeral ads on television that i do not watch it anymore.
* what else, they don’t look after themselves, they think it is fine to expect the taxpayer to pay for their heart transplants and you wait, baby boomer men will be demanding sexual services on public health funding.
* they are usually technologically hopeless but blame everyone else for this, grizzle about how life should be like a bourbon advertisement or a country music song, write books called things like the END of manners or Decadence has ruined everything saying life was only good in the 60s. HELLO, that’s crap, it’s just that YOU are not cool anymore.
yes some great art and stuff came from them, yes there are wankers in every generation but still OWN IT. or get with it.
pluto in libra.
No, I don’t anything of what you said, Leo Socialite. These are wild generations again, I could probably get into wild – and inaccurate – generalisations about yours and other generations, but I don’t because if you understand astro then you know that each person is quite different and there are huge differences in the population. You just can’t generalise. So know, I don’t OWN IT, as you say, I think it’s slandering my generation among whom there are many fine people who don’t deserve your smug, self-satisfied generalisations.
Correction, “don’t accept”
TLS, HUH? I had to pay every cent of my education. No free education in my time.
Yeh look, I’m suspecting we might be seeing class differences here, I don’t know any bb’s like this, sure they might exist but my bb parents had nothing to do with them and would look down on that kind of greed and intolerance!
Libraaquarius – i am sorry if you are taking this personally but it is not personal
Just as i can deplore the attitude of america the country in some respects while obviously still loving my many american friends, L.A and New York, american vogue!!!!
Please take yourself out of this for a moment. I was at dinner last night with many people from the finance industry there – stressed out of their brain – and they were of all ages from gen y derivtive traders to older captains of industry.
THEY say it is the baby boomers who basically invented this new financial system and got the whole world trillions of dollars in debt, skimmed their multi million dollar bonuses out of it and now intend for gen x. gen y and gen z taxpayers to bail countries out even as govt services are radically cut and the boomers raid the banks for their retirement.
Some of these guys were NOT at all proud of what has gone on. They admit that baby boomers looked down on the previous generations business model of NO or LOW debt, sustainable investments and obvious capitalism – by obvious i mean someone manufactures something that you the consumer want and you sell it to them in a competitive market.
boomers thought that was all too fuddy duddy, they took the currency away from the gold standard and they invented the futures market.
this was pluto in leo people themselves saying this – nobody is saying you personally conspired to do it just as not every american voted for george bush.
*applauds* extremely well said TLS
Maybe generational Plutos start to go baresque when Pluto first squares itself.
I remember what seemed like a sudden change from the late seventies and a laid back hippydom to Gordon Ghecko on the cover of TIME with his epithetical ‘Greed is Good’ slogan assaulting my delicate sensibilities from the news stand when I got of the ferry at Circular Quay one morning. I was shocked I tell you . . . and I think I’ve been shocked ever since.
I think the Pluto in Scorp kids are going to be best equipped to deal with whatever death-throes the economy is going to make in the (near?) future. As well as assimilating the carnage of the Twin Towers tragedy as children, they are also the Harry Potter generation and can embrace the darkness in themselves maybe better than most of us …thats occult loving Scorpio at home in Pluto.
I think this could be true! Pluto in Scorp here and I enjoy my time exploring the “muck” of life. Other people of my gen seem this way too, while some of the older types seems to think it’s too…debauched? But I think Scorpio is the best equipped to submerge and reemerge.
Im Gen Y. 84 Pluto in Lib, some older peeps call us narcissitic, all about us etc etc.. Gets a bit old.. We are all just trying to live our lives the best we can. After seeing our parents have everything and have all this wealth, why cant we.
Half of my friends think the same same is going on with the economy, that just because they have a degree they will never be out of work or on struggle street. Mind you half of them still live with there parents because rent is too expensive.
Sick of the baby boomers sprouting out shit like “When we were your age we had a mortage blah, blah blah” They just dont get it?? Did you pay half a mil for your dainty unit?? WTF..
But a lot of them now are being made redundant and are just now finding out how hard it is to find a job in these times. Some dont have degrees and they were lucky enough to pick up a stable goverment job when they left school, now with all the cutback etc they find themselves in everyone elses boat…I cant help but smirk a bit??
But I cant say much, Im still pre-saturn, and have alot to learn about the world.
Actually i just remembered the first time i realized there was a major diff between pluto in virgo and pluto in leo.
i was going on about rap/hip-hop (can’t remember the artist) to a baby boomer guy i knew and thought was really cool, i loved rap/hip-hop the moment i first heard it and i still do.
Anyway this guy totally trashed it. Said it was nothing compared to jazz/rock/elvis whatever, that is was discordant yelling, that it wasn’t music, that it should be banned….
there is also a hilarious piece in douglas coupland’s gen x about how pluto in leo publishers did a massive spate of anti-child horror books when gen x/pluto in virgo were kids, the 70s and 80s. there was a whole series of books about children possessed, children who were the devil, demonic children, children who were aliens etc AND Flowers in the Attic.
Well, I’ve just been watching a DVD of Massive Attack – trip-hop music, and I LOVE it. So again, what one person says is NOT representative of a whole generation.
Love Massive Attack.
There is a lot of ageism above. I am very surprised.
How about just being ‘ageless’.
nobody is ‘ageless’. It’s a stupid marketing term used by ad agencies to sell a lie. So sick of hearing that word. No matter what label you put on it, we all AGE and die. What’s so wrong with ageing anyway! UGH. So over it!
I love you, libraaqua
Thanks, 12th house virgo, so lovely to hear!
Fuq. Pluto in Virgo (conjunct Uranus and Mercury). I read those books as an early teen, they freaked me out. I still can’t do horror, especially the more serious “this could be real horror” like Flowers..” !! Or the actual daly news sometimes.
Not all baby boomers had a free education, as that didnt happen until after Whitlam was elected in 1972. My parents both poor enough and smart enough to get thru on scholarships – and my mother worked as a maid to her male fellow students – in the late 1960s.
A lot of babyboomers have paid enough in taxes for several heart transplants.
Lot of blame laying as well.
and hip hop is street poetry. everyone should be an artist.
i don’t have time to read the words above but what i think about pluto in scorpio’s role is this: if we are to survive the potential coming changes in weather, financial systems, mining, farming, society – the fundamentals – then the ideal people to aid humanity in the transition are those who have the god of the underworld enabling them to transmute and transform at the deepest possible level. If anyone can walk through the ruins and pick up the pieces it’s pluto exalted in scorpio.
yeah that’s if the Pluto in Scorp generation vibes haute Scorp and not low. I’m inclined to agree with Fi’s rant further up the thread. But then I’m a realist not an optimist.
Realism helps indeed. But there’s nothing wrong with having a vision: I think that realism + vision might help us come to grips with making proper lasting change even if it is something small and simple.
Pragmatic vision.
David is that you? If it is high five from the opposite side of the astro wheel.
i have pluto conjunct uranus and jupiter in virgo – I am nothing if not pragmatic. Hope for the best prepare for the worst – and either may manifest without warning before breakfast – is how I work my way through this weird life. I think it’s limiting to put boundaries around the potential for emerging from the ruins at this point in time when there’s a lot that could change with technology etc in the meantime. We have not yet reached the end of the ruining that they will pick through and emerge from.
Is it really pragmatism to sit back and try and contain it or talk down their ability to evolve into “upstanding citizens” from this vantage point or is it simply more depressing black cloud nihilism? If you see them falling down, give them a hand and try and teach them how to stand more securely when they’re up again. That’s what the older generations are meant to do. It’s what I try to do and I plan to continue to do until I retire to the country hamlet with the eccentric doctor and the pets. When did naysaying ever provide enduring solutions?
All hail the piscean with the pragmatic vision.
Whatevs baby, it’s me, unpredictable pisces, just closed for renovations..- really love the idea of being around to guide and help the next generation/s. I may not be a font of wisdom but would like to share what I know, I love to hear from others and learn from their experiences.
Think that’s the real deal and bottom line. Ours lives and struggles are all relative to our, well…reality. I wasn’t born with no silver spoon and don’t have a huge reserve of money to retire on but my ace in the hole is my experience of life and how I can share that.
Remember how my Kataka daughter cried and said she was afraid of being an adult. I went to her and hugged her and said “I am too”
oh hey! soz I’ve been on retreat didn’t realise
How’s the reno going? I think that whole learning from others thing is one of the great powers of the internet. The generations after ours are able to stop by and have an exchange with the elders online. It’s genius. And we can learn from them – it’s not mutually exclusive – you know? I feel quite open to things being a whole lot better once some shit inevitably goes down. I don’t think that all is lost – it’s definitely mighty fuqd up but it’s not over yet.
* without warning before breakfast
nailed it ! All about the morph. yes !
Maybe we’ll have to wait for the Pluto in Sagg generation to envision this proper change and for Pluto in Cap adults to make it into a new reality.
My realistic guess is that Pluto in Scorp is going to be watchdog/dirty laundry crew/transformers to combust into/embody/live the full tilt bottom rock and the transformation/phoenix delivery will be an utterly neat tabula rasa, nothing beyond that level. From which Pluto in Saggs will only start to create new “unbeaten track” visions. And Pluto Cap a new streak of Maçons! *oh, little baby nephew is Pluto Cap!* Patience, you think?
For the first time in my uranian life I wish I believed in past/future lives so I could be around to see “Pluto in Sagg’s unbeaten track visions” Love your words and thoughts and I agree pluto in scorp is going to be all about dirty laundry
please don’t let this devolve into one of those posts that have people storming off in snits.
Let’s be very clear that we are talking about generations here; it is a loose term, obviously. We have to generalize to be able to discuss them.
Take for granted that people commenting mean “in general” and that there are obviously fab peeps in every generation. I can, for instance, think of several things i admire about Pluto in Leo.
I love that cosmic dust hippy vibe of them having kids young and dragging them off to india and that they protested against a war to such an extent, i love all those Jane Birkin era women, HEAPS to admire.
But please if peeps are going to get precious about this we can’t have a discussion. Nothing said about any generation is personal.
I have friends of all Pluto generations & my children are pluto in scorp and pluto in sagg – gen Z guys!
Sorry, I do disagree about the “in general” because there seems to be so much of the “let’s bash the baby boomers” around. I hope people might think before they get into wild generalisations in general. I’m actually fed up about people being so precious about themselves and being so morally superior about baby boomers. My whole point here is that when one generation starts sniping about another, it misses the target. Baby boomers aren’t responsible for the current situation, neither are subsequent generations. It’s the 1% who ARE responsible and if we start pot-shotting at each other, the 99% get distracted from the main target.
You make a good point: “attack the behaviour, not the person (or generation)”
LOOK, lady. Stop diverting the generation complaining to the “1%”, because I will bet you anything that this one percent you are complaining about is composed nearly entirely of the very pluto in leo people that everyone is complaining about.
-also if you cant generalize about generations, by extension you cant be mad at this one percent for having a lot of money, there are probably a few good people who donate plenty of money within that one percent, if you dont want other people to generalize about you, then you arent aloud to generalize about anyone else, if you do, then that is hypocritical, grouping people into percents is the epitome of generalizing (also, i like the occupy wall street thing, but saying anyone complaining about anything that isnt the one percent is a distraction is one big logical liberty, why are you even on the internet, you shouldnt be defending you should be at some camp protesting)
-do you understand how silly you are being for being angry about generalizing?? NO ONE was saying that everyone in your generation was bad thats IMPOSSIBLE, to assume thats what anyone meant is more insulting than any generalizations that have been made thus far. your generation did things, that doesnt mean you did, whatever qualities you do or dont have dont take away what your generation has done good or bad as a whole, so when we talk about it in the abstract, crying exception is really besides the point, when generalizing relativity is implied, without generalizing, there would be no astrology
-stop taking it personally, there are exceptions to everything, if we sit here pointing that out to everything than whats the point of anyone saying anything, people are aloud to generalize, you are not aloud to tell them they cant just because this time it disagrees with you
-The last time America has been this economicly imbalanced was the time of the robber barons, who coincidentally were (GASP) pluto in taurus generation. Both of these fixed generations have the capacity for extreme material irresponsibility, and it is no coincidence that this has happened during the rule of these fixed signs, luckily the next fixed sign, us, can be horrible in its own way, but at the very least we can not be shallow or too material, IN GENERAL
basically OF COURSE your generation is going to be complained about in particular, its the one “in charge” right now, when my generation is at that point people will complain what we are doing wrong. your generation is probably the most amazing one, look at all the great music we can no one has been able to match, but there are negative things too, and thats what is pertinent right now, its not personal against you, or even anyone in particular, its vague complaining, and by complaining that people are complaining IS complaining. People are aloud to complain about whatever they want wah wah
I was mad at the generalisations about my generation, David5379, because generalisations don’t work and because this whole idea of baby boomers, gen x, Y, Spotted Dog or what is divisive in itself.As for my generation being shallow or too material, what codswallop! There are shallow and material types in every society. I’m just fed up with the baby boomer bashing that goes on, because plenty people in my generation weren’t rich, aren’t rich, get by on small incomes, and we get targeted because it suits the media and the 1% (yup, I’m going to mention that dreaded word). Why do you think baby boomers are being targeted in the media as selfish, rich, greedy buggers? Because it suits the trash media and head honchos to have us fighting among ourselves.
generalizations are a staple of logic and language, at some point you have to generalize about everything, you are generalizing about the media when not all media is bad, and no one is saying that there arent good and bad to any generation, what is being discussed is the particular flavor of bad of your generation, which by no means speaks to the numerous exceptions that obviously exist. If we were to complain about pluto in cancer we could say they where to concerned with “tribe”(jingoism, ww1 ww2) and family and ended up destroying it, in fact they even had too many babies (baby boomers) how cancerian of them. What is being complained about now is a real thing, people of your generation have actual qualities and do actual bad things, that is a fact you can not deny. Instead of wanting family your generation wanted nice cars and nice houses, and leonine things. When generalizing about pluto in cancer, im sure there were plenty of people who did not have kids or settle down or want either, that is a given, none the less their generation have certain qualities anyway, likewise even though you and many other of your generation do not have the negative qualities being discussed does not discount the negative qualities your generation does have. Although the occupy wall street is a noble cause, you cant force people to only complain along those lines, any more than you can force your occupy wall street generalizations on the generalizations of others. People can generalize all they want, up to the point they are dealing in absolutes, no one was dealing in absolutes so everything is all in good logical fun. When people complain about your generation, they are not complaining about you, and people are aloud to complain about whatever they want, and dont have to complain about the things you complain about. Generalizations do work, if they didnt then psychology, philosophy, astrology, politics, science and so on would have no logical means of articulating concepts, but they do, and each is successful to a decent degree to meat there aims, generalizations do work. The only reason your mad is because its your generation, but if you do not have those qualities than it obviously does not concern you, get over it.
also stop exaggerating how much your generation is being “bashed”, younger generations are made fun of for staying at home and are subject to just as much “bashing” as against the baby boomers, you cant stop people from negatively discussing topics, and if you did no one would be able to talk about anything bad, things are bad, anyone can talk about it
wah wah
David you have so poignantly and successfully articulated your points it would be shame to see that good work get lost on a detour to wah wah land. Great artists know when to put down the brush x
I know that was a bit much, im sorry, that wasnt even everything I wanted to say, I can go on forever and ever how someone is wrong, so many details, that was the abridged version, and the wah wah point was i thought an important one not to leave out, only ive already probably made too many to begin with, thats why I dont use periods on the internet, Im just infinitely qualifying my own statements, maybe too many details
but I have dramatically dropped the mike and walked away, even if its my second time doing so, sorry the effect has worn off
no no it hasn’t worn off at all – it was more just a gentle nudge that it might if there were detours from your lucid and well articulated opinions. I LOVE the way you worked through that and hope you stick around to add your voice to the mix around here in other posts you feel are relevant to you. I hadn’t noticed your lack of periods but THAT makes me laugh – I have tried to rebel against punctuation and overthrow the grammar elite myself lately. People seem to need it though. I like what you’ve got going on in your head and your ability to analyse both the self and the other in a relatively balanced way and sense you could go far in life with those skills. I’ve gotta go fraternise with a blue devil – take it easy and thanks for sharing
thanks space invader, my mercury is quite heavy handed(cause mercury rules the hands GET IT), and im virgo rising, I cant help it, thank you for the compliment, maybe I will start commenting a bit on posts now, you take it easy too, and thanks for being so nice
Whoa there, easy tiger.
Anyone have some popcorn? This is good shit!
Agreed and no not going to go off in snit … just retract foot from Moon in Sag/Uranus square Sun trine Asc mouth.
Shits me no end when I read back my own words and think I sound like a preachy evangelical twat.
oh and i have pluto in the 8th, i think i have always had a Pluto in Scorpy consciousness, i get it. I get them. We think the same about a LOT of things, it is interesting.
my whole family are scorpio and they can all turn shit to gold each in their own ways if they put their minds to it – pluto in scorpio HAS to be the essence of that. Pluto in the 8th also. The alchemists.
Pluto in scorp and pluto in leo have more in common than they seem ready to admit to: both are questioning the status quo put in place by previous generations.
I think every generation questions what the generation before it has created, it’s not just a Pluto in Leo/Pluto in Scorp thing.
This list is usually characterised by a high level of respect – have not previously seen such planetary placement-bashing as has occurred tonight re Pluto in Leo.
My gorgeous, wise, conscientious & infuriatingly frustrating Ma, is a Pluto in Leo gal.
She has often got her knickers in a twist, shouting at the television & ranting generally about how Gen X & Y are selfish, unaware & “why the hell aren’t they out there protesting like we did?… We didn’t sit around playing video games…”
Ahhh Bless!
But also, in her defense (& obviously many other Boomers), she is super-savvy with cash, has zero debt & virtually zero greenhouse emissions, is incredibly passionate about social justice & the demise of economic rationalism & is a very compassionate & insightful person… Thus she can be easily forgiven (despite my frustration at times) for seeing the world thru the lense of many a Pluto in Leo person.
I’m Pluto in Libra, Gen X… & it was enough o for me, just to point out to her that all those Tweets she so cheers along with, on Q.I.. are the Gen X & Y’s making their stand in their own way.
And, as a huge fan of Julian Assange, she has taken a step back from her hard-line stance on the younger generations.
Just a note on all the impassioned posts above…
I know it can get a tad intense, but it’s kinda understandable… I mean, we are talking about everyone’s Pluto!!!
And it makes all the sense in the world, that if your going to rant about anything, then your rant is going to (at least in some small way) be colored by your personal/transpersonal experience of Pluto in… Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorp, Saggi… Or whatevs.
I think it’s kinda cute (respectfully)
Oops, Merc retro strikes again… “if ‘you’re’ going to rant”
Pluto in Virgo here, 1959, so yes one of the in betweeners. My first wake up was pollution and the way we treated the environment. I noticed it from a young age how little people cared for our beautiful country. I decided very young that that was what had to be handled better in my generation than the last. It’s crucial that the younger generation fights for the rights of all ecosystems. The future of the world depends on it. Ultimately though I’ve always been an optimist, still am. Enjoy your life and tread lightly, that’s all.
We only have one planet…
Pluto in Virgo here too. I’ve never understood the thing about waiting for the next generation to take care of things…like the environment for example. All human beings need to fight for our planet. Watching the news recently re the carbon tax and all things environmental reminded me of the 80′s and how they were talking about how we needed to do something for future generations. Yet here we are again and the so called people in charge are saying the same things. Not much has changed though.
Oh sorry david i thought you were the realist who posted up above but that must be a case of mistaken identity, you’re an idealist
We need to continue to fight for the ecosystems now and hand them the baton when we depart. The oceans are screaming for help while people are chatting about the one vs ninety-nine percent over sushi. I want everyone who eats sushi or any other sea life to buy a whole fish and gut it for themselves and see if that fish was trying to digest plastic when it died for you. If I ruled the world that would be my decree. Cut it open and stare at the guts of it. That’s what we need to do to see the frightening truth.
oh no, LOL soz, you’re not an idealist, you’re an optimist? I’m glad to hear it. One thing we need is hope.
agreed.
Well, I have Pluto in Scorp in my eight house, so I feel like I should be very tuned in to all this, but honestly, I’ve felt very detached–in a peaceful way–about the whole situation lately. But then I’ve always been a Big Picture person, and I find it hard to get worked up about almost anything, since I always have this “eh, circle of life” attitude.
My Pluto in Leo parents have always been financially responsible, but one thing that does bug me is that they still cling to this idea that because I have a college degree, I should be able to get any job I want. I’ve tried to tell them that degrees don’t mean what they used to anymore, but they just don’t get it. I think they feel like I’m just not trying hard enough to get a better job, and it’s really frustrating.
Oh, and another thing–they also have this attitude like my current job is beneath me or something, even though I like it just fine. I guess it’s because social mobility was a little easier for them–they both grew up poor but made a better life for themselves than their parents had, which is great, but they expected that to keep going indefinitely or something, so eventually their great-grandchildren would be billionaires or whatever.
I know it’s normal for parents to want the best for their children, but again, it makes me feel inadequate. My job is secure and non-stressful involves helping people, and I feel lucky to have any job at all! I don’t think I should be made to feel guilty because it’s not a “prestigious” position, according to their standards.
Damn you, Merc retrograde. So many typos.
It’s nice that you have decided that ‘striving’ , whatever that means, does not need to be a part of your life/ career. I find that the whole “career ladder” approach is so worn out. Being at the top just for the sake of it seems pointless to me. But Being at the top because you really goddamn care about what’s going on and having the real power to effect change, that makes a lot more sense.!
Exactly! I’m happy with my quiet little life. It seems like not being super ambitious is automatically considered a shortcoming, no matter an individual’s personality. We can’t all be CEOs, and that’s just fine with me.
Interesting points re pluto in leo and the striving. You have chosen what sounds like the perfect path for yourself. Part of the not good enough feeling you may get from them is probably a sense of failing on their part that they might have done something wrong in bringing you up NOT to aspire like they did. You are not them though, so try if you can to disassociate from their fears and disappointments – they aren’t your own and they don’t belong to you. Whenever I’ve felt that way and actually bothered to tell my pluto in leo mother how I felt she has gone off in a huge huff, treated me to some scorpionic silence to drown in and then she inevitably comes back later on and has changed her way of talking about things – changed her tone or language and adapted to my needs. Have you considered telling them how they make you feel? Do you think they might change if they knew they were hurting you?
I don’t know…blaming another generation for what is going on now is…lazy. I really don’t see how an entire generation is to blame for anything. There is good and bad in all. It is greedy individuals that cause crap like this. All I can think of when I see this stuff going on is high school cliques and how dull it all is. Selfish, greedy, dial tones. That’s not generational, that’s personal. Have seen this from boomers to gen y. Even gen z
Watching parliament in action makes me question what planet I’m on and big business – well the sooner it all goes bang the better I say. I don’t want it to but I know something has to give. The whole system is corrupt and the sooner those things crumble the better. Watch the film Inside Job to really piss you off re the financial fuqery.
One thing that did surprise me with the #occupy movement is the lack of passion re what the message and problems were. It seemed disjointed. Lacklustre. I look at the protest for women’s rights/civil rights/anti-war etc in the past and wonder where is that fighting spirit. Or is it because people are leaving it up to the younger generations when we all need to fight. A lot of current events really get on my nerves and I find the lack of passion regarding this puzzling. Even if I don’t agree with someone’s politics/beliefs/ whatever I can respect someone for their passion.
Soz if this is convoluted and rambling. I have a lot of feelings lol
Lack of passion marks my generation (X) and lack of clarity seems to mark the Y generation. You can’t blame them – they get so much happy-talk from our media, yet they know that something is amiss.
i don’t think we lack passion I think we’re late bloomers. This uranus in aries and thus opposing libra era is our time to let our freak flags fly – if we’re not burdened with the mortgages and the fear etc. I think the media in the 80s found it convenient to mark us as passionless because it moved papers. There was a lot to be depressed about in the 80s – no jobs (yes kids we went through it too), Greenham Common, Margaret Thatcher for fuq’s sake, poll tax, riots, strikes, the bomb, Jacques Cousteau scaring it up about the oceans (we need to start listening again).
I think for gen x the thing is we saw the world before globalisation happened. We knew shit was going down in our towns that wasn’t quite right. We still had some semblance of knowledge of primary industries and where food comes from and that people make stuff. Gen Y entered the fray once it was all sold down the river and things had started to move off-shore. There’s nothing for them to hold on to because it was all given away and repackaged for TV before they came along. I think kids should be taught how to read advertising and media in school. How to pull it apart so they can see if it’s truth or not. It must be really confusing to be born into capitalism this late in the game.
“I think kids should be taught how to read advertising and media in school. How to pull it apart so they can see if it’s truth or not. It must be really confusing to be born into capitalism this late in the game.”
yes, I agree.
oi! We are passionate – it is pluto in virgo who have done the health revolution, have you noticed how there is now a massage place on every corner, fitness is the fastest growing industry, everyone has a naturopath or an acupuncturist and we all take vitamins????? THAT is pluto in virgo.
pluto in virgo are also neurotic parents i.m.o. and gen y LIVE between facebook and online porn. Whose fault is reality tv?????
And finally pluto in leo believe in pouring taxpayer money into the arts far too much. pluto in scorpio believes the only valid art is street art. i am on a roll here.
I’m only aware of the money they pour into the dark arts – which taxpayer money are you speaking of TLS? The renovations at the museum of contemporary art? Where is this money – I pay taxes and I’d love to see the art they were spent on.
i am thinking more of the tax breaks for baby boomers to make unwatchable films. i LOVE art. I use it as therapy. A glass of wine, my hair done and a walk around a gallery and i am fine. BUT i have met too many of these “producers” boasting about how easy it is suck off the taxpayers tit. that generation have a sense of entitlement like none other, yes give or take the idiots or amazing people in any generation
I just started a rave re the dark side of the Pluto in Virgo “Health Revolution” . Yes to the positives TLS, they are many. But as always there needs to be an acknowledgement of all the quacks and shysters out there. And as for the supplement and vitamin market – who’s checking the research and the massive profits made by these companies? Advertising on health is hugely emotive and often void of truth and evidence. They are ingenious at entwining it with superiority and even moral superiority, stealthily engaging your inner self doubt to a T. Pluto in Sagg, I’m guessing will take care of these delusions. (As a Pluto/Uranus/Merc conj in Virgo mother of 2 amazing Pluto in Saggo offspring
absolutely agree FF: Wellness, natural medicine – all that is fine, but as principles, not when made into commodities to be traded on the market.
i think the lack of clarity re: a specific message was… well it was an experiment about power and something new, which has revitalised the american left.
being a gen y and activist i have witnessed the degeneration of ‘protest’ from mass movements marching onto the streets to small bands of people with megaphones doing the same old run of the mill… regardless of the issue it’s the same people doing the same thing, marching around the block with a police escort shouting slogans, there’s usually more people waiting at the bus stop than there is at your sad little rally.
the single biggest criticism that anyone had of the left was that ‘protest doesn’t change anything’. low attendance didn’t mean that people didn’t care about stuff… it just meant they felt like the same old shit wasn’t working.
so actually, to park your movement in a park and let people come and vent their formless frustration and rage, and then slowly to come together to develop a platform for change has been the most successful thing for our generation which is skeptical of the failures of the mass movements of the 1960s.
Pluto in Scorpio generation is goon to revolutionize attitudes towards sex. I expect a lot of different family structures will result from them being themselves. This is the generation that will make gay marriage a right. But most importantly, they will abandon the false moral supremancy of heterosexual monogamous coupling in favor of meaningful, if transitory, relationships. These changes in sexuality will have socio-economic impacts, but those are secondary to the real change which will be an embrace of true sexual freedom.
Imho
I find this idea interesting when you consider the issues that most Pluto in Scorps have regarding sex. We’ve been sexualised from such a young age and exposed to porn which has warped our view of what sex is and should be. I wonder if this is going to be a bit of a phoenix act where we are immersed in the low Scorp aspect of sex (demoralisation and disrespect of women, shallow casual encounters) only to turn our backs on it when we realise that it’s destructive and create a new view of sex as being sacred and transformational.
I think we are all socially primed to sense disrespect toward women. The civil and gender rights movements in the 60s did alot to help make that clear. Unfortunately, men have been left out of the equation. I hope/expect to see a surge in issues related to the sexual rights of men, recognizing that men can and are sexually wounded and even deomonized in our society. The Penn State sex scandal is one example of this coming to light. It seems silly in the current socially-conditioned context to talk about male sexuality/vulnerability/victimhood as we are so conditioned to see women as victims of men. But – how can we EVER have balanced partnerships if we genderize power and victimization? I was thinking a lot about this last night. The whole AIDS epidemic did a lot to make the penis seem evil – I mean – AIDS comes from gay men, right? At least, that’s the shadow it crawled out of initially. Why would gay men have used contriception before AIDS anyway? But, the result has been a downgrading of male sexuality and a lot of social fear, anxiety around men and their sexuality. Its all shadowy stuff that doesn’t often make the light of social discourse, which is why I know it will come out with Saturn in Scorpio.
To clarify, I think the sexual accountability that was made apparent with AIDS (ie no more “free love”) was somehow projected on the masculine (taker away of freedom) and that true gender balance is needed now.
Yeah I agree, it’s like pluto thru the signs brings about diversification and breaks apart the norm (irrevocably but not nec completely)..
I know some people are getting a bit hot and bothered here but I really LOVE these kinds of conversations- direction-seeking: who ARE we? What do we WANT? Why do we want it? What’s changed? Such a cool mixture of philosophy, visioning. Appreciation of what everyone can bring to the table- wisdom, passion, know-how, action. Xxxx
ahahahahahah enjoying it too- besides, what the hell do we learn when we’re all cooing around ‘ooohh you’re so lovely, ooo isn’t life a breeze’?!
Each generation is its own mystery. Each generation shares events that they define themselves against – be it Vietnam, the Cold War, or 9-11. And the generation that follows doesn’t define themselves against that event. They question the definition. Its growth and progress and natural. I’m surprised Gen-X (my generation) has become vocal about generational differences. I thought we were all above the traditional stereotypes; I thought we saw through smoke-screens that mask real issues, real solutions. I don’t know. Maybe because Gen-X has a Napoleon complex since they are a small group compared to boomers? I don’t know. But I think its dangerous to blame a generation for anything since clearly life isn’t over yet. We all have impact here. We’re still changing things. Nothing is done yet. I’ve always felt like my generation was a bridge between the paper-based world (Pluto in Leo) and the digital world (Pluto in Scorpio). Those two generations really speak/think/feel reality from assumptions that are so wildly different I’m not sure they ever really understand how different. But, as Pluto in Libra, I can relate to both. Its been important for me professionally to be able to relate to both generations and help them understand how digital technology allows us to transform our use of space (information sharing, communication, architecture, etc).
Went to bed and missed this whole convo. Haven’t read it all..
Last night’s dream I was going to be leaving for Columbia and it was going to be tricky…and quite scary…A woman was talking to me and she had missing teeth..My own fears no doubt…
And who ain’t got fears now a days? x
Was listening to Suzanne Vega last night…~Luka~…about child abuse.
Heart breaking and it’s all these kinds of things that are being conversed about…jobs, money, that lead to abuse of others out of frustration of broken dreams and so forth. Think dreams have been broken in every generation…that’s what leads to change…
Sweetpea, I listened to this song over and over back in 1987 driving to Sydney (from Brisbane) in my beetle with just one tape, to pick up my English bf at the time. I always thought it was about partner abuse! Duh! It makes sense now. I love Suzanne Vega x
My year is 93, on the soccer team last year, when the new freshmen came in, I could not get over how annoying and not serious they were, the SECOND they bursted in the locker room, every one of us turned and scowled, we probably hissed too. It wasnt because they were freshman either, the year before that was no where near as bad, and when I asked my friends they all agreed these freshman were just too… something. We had our silly and playful moments, but something about that particular generation was just UGH. Then when I looked into it, they are the first pluto in sagg generation ha. They are a lot more silly and carefree, so much so it was annoying, and it felt like they werent even serious human beings, then I realized how horrible and intense my generation probably was. When one of us dislikes each other, there is a lot less confrontation, but the disdain is much more serious, and long lasting. When they didnt like someone, they would be mean without caring, but bubbled around indiscriminately and would end up being friendly with everyone anyway, so everyone was just being silly and giggly and mean, without it meaning anything, needless to say on the bus ride to school, us pluto scorps were seething in our seats. I think we take for granted our generational qualities until we are confronted with the next one, then we start to realize whats what.
-I think my generation means business, pluto in leo wanted to be creative and grand, pluto in virgo wanted… to be competent(?) and to synthesize(?), and pluto in libra wants that ideal of beauty. Pluto in scorpio doesnt care about looking great, about figuring everything out, about “beauty”, we are after meaning. I think pluto demands meaning, and if you fall pray to this powerful pull you end up destroying the very thing you wanted. Each generation had a call to arms, and succeeded in being meaningfully creative, meaningfully crafted, or meaningfully beautiful, but also failed a bit too, destroying what they wanted at each turn. Im not sure you can destroy destruction itself, I think this pluto is so much pluto that you cant afford to do it wrong, there will be a lower form sure, but at least it will be after the very thing pluto itself is all about.
The progression of generations is kind of beautiful, no? After the deep intensity of Scorpio comes the playful (annoyingly reckless) Sag.
I must grudgingly admit they were way more positive and happy go lucky and nothing is wrong with that, in fact in a few ways I would even say they are better off. If my generation did not like someone(within) we would be all scorpio about it, so people could end up being ostracized and hated from a distance. When they dislike someone they had no internal barriers from being mean to them, but they at least did not ignore them and might end up being friends with them. I would even venture to say when they were mean it was not mean at all, maybe they were just emulating us and we are a horrible influence ha, they may be light but at least they are not mean spirited. At some point my generation is going to be the one doing something wrong and there gonna be upset that we dont lighten up or something, and they will probably be right
My only consistent complaint (so far) against the Pluto in Scorpio generation is if they don’t know how to respond to someone, they just ignore them. I’ve seen it happen multiple times, I send someone Pluto-in-Scorp-age an email or message and they just ignore it. Part of that may be the digital culture – if you act like you didn’t see it than perhaps you didn’t. But I do feel its more than that. I’m interested in people’s opinions, but I can’t seem to get a Pluto-in-Scorpio person to open up to an ongoing (challenging) dialogue. They just shut down. And I can’t tell if they are offended, confused, bored, annoyed by the message. It could be me, but my empathic sense tells me that they just don’t respond because a) they aren’t clear about what I “expect” them to say and b) there is no consequence for ignoring someone.
Not sure if anyone else had noticed that…but I appreciate you being open enough to respond to my last comment.
Anyway, if we were meant to be one way, there’d be one astrology sign and one chakra and all that…I like the contrasts.
hmm, my uncle accused me of something like that ha, whenever someone leaves me a voice message I dont listen to it I just call back, and my uncle was really annoyed by that and had one of those “your generation” rants, specifically when it comes to that I think its not a matter of astrology, but previous generations grew up with different phone etiquette that is no longer required with cell phones, so that etiquette does not transfer because some things are not essential any more.
When it comes to just not responding, I would have to agree with what your saying a bit, as a matter of policy I will always call txt back ALWAYS, but I do notice my friends can randomly not answer something at all, the more plutonian the more frequent the offense even. I think maybe the mindset is different, my sisters generation(pluto in sagg) seam to txt and keep up with each other a whole lot more, my generation engages in fb and texting, but the style is more about keeping your cards close to the chest, and because of that we are much more reluctant to fully communicate and can be much more cryptic. In a way its more genuine, instead of lying to someone to get them out of you hair like most people do, or having to explain yourself and refuse, you can just cut them off. In a way its also power over that person, if you dont answer someone and they want you to, you have power over them, if you dont want to deal with them in the first place now that person has to grapple with the fact which leads either to them just giving up and leaving you alone, or successively getting through to you but at the cost of having to put forth more effort(all the while not showing that your bothered lest they do it again ) and thus surrendering power to them. Its not that frequent, but it does happen, along the lines of if you dont have to answer, or dont want to then screw them. If someone does not respond to you, its embarrassing for the person being ignored, the offender can go on like nothing happen, while the victim is privately mortified he has been on some level rejected, this leads people keeping to themselves even more and being even more suspicious and reluctant to engaging if it leads to such loss of power. This is me just reading in to it if it is a pluto thing, it might not be, and it is not the norm, but it is a thing. So if it is about pluto, then its about little power games, but I dont think its a conscious plot and more like an inclination. Again, now that I have read into it, its going to appear like its much more frequent than it actually is, its more like everyone keeps to themselves and there friends, and if someone unduly overreaches this unspoken barrier, their punishment is being ignored, probably
-personally I hate texting, too much consideration has to be put in, when you talk there is no misinterpreting anything, I think people txt so they dont have to genuinely engage with people and can keep people at a distance, if anything that just lends itself to even further cryptic intent
What you’re saying about power-plays makes sense. I guess the problem I have is with the unspoken expectations. Its dangerous, because the Pluto in Scorpio generation has a unique experience – communications had radically changed and they are the first generation to grow up emeshed in the online world. Their expectations are different. And, I suspect, largely unspoken. I suspect the other generations pick up this unspoken set of expectations and label the generation as feeling so “entitled.”
I worked in a government agency for a bit. There was a massive generation divide because there had been hiring feezes for various decades. So I found myself a Pluto in Libra trying to get Pluto in Leo and Pluto in Scorpios to work together. I worked as an information architect in knowledge management. So, my whole job was really just to get them to work together.
What I noticed was that Pluto in Scorpio was very aware of the hierarchy. One new hire told me “if I complain about it, I will get stuck in a corner with a shitty assignment. I figure I have to wait it out for five years and I’m fine.” He was never going to voice his complaint about the system he was in. He was going to wait it out, get power in the system, and then (I hope) do things his way.
Why I say the unvoiced expectations are dangerous is because I think more change more rapidly could occur is the Pluto in Scorpio generation engaged in dialogue. But, perhaps that is a personal bias since I have Pluto conjunct Mars and Mercury personally.
In any case, I suspect the Pluto in Scorpio generation will fight, with shared resources, when they feel empowered to do so. And nothing will back them off the fight then. At least, that’s what I see them doing with the occupy movements.
Its really nice to have your opinion shared on this blog. You offer a different perspective on things. I love gathering perspectives.
Ugh, so many typos – wanted to say I think change would occur more rapidly if Pluto in Scorpios engaged in dialogue more. Also, I don’t think they would be or act or get labeled as feeling entitled if they shared their expectations and negotiated those expectations with others more. Most of their ideas, wants, hopes are reasonable, optimistic, valuable – or so I found. But, unspoken, they resonate as judgmental and stuck-up. The Pluto in Scorpio assumptions about the nature of reality are really, really different from Pluto in Leo – or so I found working with both groups. For example, one new hire I worked with was astounded that all information in the agency wasn’t stored in a single, searchable database. Its possible, it just takes more work to do that they he could realize. And the Pluto in Leo generation – some of them didn’t use/trust/understand email (yes – email), let alone databases. And I felt like “does anyone else understand how wide this divide is?”
well thank you for being so polite, and putting what you dont like about my generation nicely. I dont mind at all whatever problems you have with my generation, and I appreciate that you didnt just attack me or something without really caring about what I think.
Hmm, I think keeping to yourself and being more sneaky is a matter of taste, and also I think we are aware of all the nasty undercurrents and cant just ignore it, fighting this undercurrent is a lot to ask if you think about it, and if you were aware of how bad things are, your first instinct may not be to combat it immediately, our track is to transform, and I think timing is just a matter of style, if you have no power than at the onset then it is unwise to blow up right away, and the whole point of the archetype of scorpio is this behind the scenes plotting, maybe we are preparing for a fight, individually festering, and eventually we will be able to act on this, if we are going to do something crazy you can bet its in the works right now, and no one is going to know about it till the target has been stung.
-ha isnt it kinda funny as a pluto in libra generation your mediating between generations and wish my generation would deal with you on this level more ha, i can see why libra would be chaffed by scorpios unwillingness to be negotiated and bartered with at all, just like I am irritated by pluto in sagg being so unserious. I understand what your saying though, problems need to come out in the open to be dealt with, but all of it is a matter of taste I suppose, only time will tell what we really bring to the table, I guarantee you we will be seething in the mean time ha.
Well, I feel soo much better now that the generational communication problem/secret has been aired!
My daughter is Pluto in Sag. They are going to be playful and sloppy. Its up to you guys to till the soil.
Funny, I didn’t expect it, but I understand the difference between generations better now. The astrology metaphors help.
Before this conversation, I thought Pluto in Scorpios wouldn’t speak up unless they knew what they were expected to do/say exactly. But now I see the reluctance to speak out as a need to relate to power in the situation. Why talk about what someone can’t do anything about? Why speak up when you aren’t going to be able to make sure the transformation happens? I can relate to those concerns better. What seemed cavalier, casual, or snobby in the generations attitude to me before I can re-see now as being intense, and kind of “all or nothing.”
I think Pluto in Scorpios are going to rock shared resources. Social media, for one. The ability to organize and pull together. Its just getting started. From this conversation, I’d guess once Pluto in Scorpios get a wiff of their own power in a situation, there is no taking that power away.
Hmmm…
EXACTLY, that is exactly the attitude I was getting at, all or nothing, if something serious and plausible arose for doing something in the world, I know for a fact my friends would go in with a die hard approach and give it all their devotion, the trouble is waiting for something to meat such a high level of scrutiny and cynicism perhaps even the most skeptical and cynical generation there is(and trust me my friends are pretty cynical), but if it does, I think everyone better watch out.
Was reading on a blog that the only countries left that do not have a Rothchild-owned central bank are Venezuela, Syria, and Iran, now that Libya has been invaded by the US. This topic is totally serious and I reckon worthy of Pluto in Scorpio generation attention given that they must surely rule shared resources/scrutiny of other people’s money etc. Now I am seeing Pluto in Scorpio Gen being like Uber Scorpio Matt Damon in the Bourne Identity but having studied Financial too. Oooh, that’s awesome!
i concur, it’s been a pleasure as well as revelatory to read both of your words. I realised they related to an electronic communication issue I had only yesterday with someone who is bound to be pluto in scorpio. Am going to reassess how I approach them and see if change comes.
i totally do this, and yet it annoys the shizz out of me when others do it to me.
it can be for any of the reasons you mention.
a) feeling overwhelmed: i feel that there are so many missives coming at me that i can only respond to core, important missives. other non-core communiques i don’t follow up on unless in person. i don’t go for having a long, open-ended conversation via email or SMS any more. this is really different from traditional modes of communication like telephone or mail where you are having a long, meaning enhancing convo. i think it’s the ‘spam effect’ – most of the shizz that i get bombarded with is automated crap from spambots, uni email lists, facebook, etc. what is the meaningful communication?
meaningful communication is business or family related.
b) you’re right, there technically is no consequence for ignoring someone, because most of the people trying to communicate with us are far away. in years of yore if you ignored a letter from your neighbour down the road you would be faced with awkwardness. now it’s mostly irrelevant.
c) not knowing what you’re expected to say – yeah sure. i’d say this is a big one. like, in a way my generation has had to learn to screen out the majority of crap they are presented with in order to function. so when we are presented with this communication which requires a lateral intellectual response, perhaps the disclosure of some personal information, etc etc… too hard basket, you know?
interested to know what context you are trying to initiate challenging dialogue by email in! in a way, i am a luddite because i still want to have the meaningful discussions in person, not to avoid them altogether.
maybe a better strategy would be to invite said pluto in scorp for coffee and then dialogue face to face?
The communication problem has occured in lots of different contexts, which is why I thought it may be an accurate generalization about the generation. It happened with my nephew who lived with me for a bit – he responds or initiates emails randomly. He’s actually the most understandable one. Then, there is another nephew who is an artist and moved into my area. I sent him an email to my portfolio (he and I both are into photography). I see how it could be weird because I do some nude self-portraits, but…its an art thing – another thread – seriously, no response? Its not like we hadn’t talked about photography before. I even told him that telling me to fuck off would be better than ignoring me – still ignored me). And at work…a marketing person totally ignored my query about a presentation I was marketing on the flattening of identity through social media. Probably because it was mixed in with a bit about how it was OK that she tried to hook me up with her brother and HE ignored me (also Pluto in Scorpio). Her brother and I connected at a work event over the topic of the generation divide. She told me he was interested in me, so I got his email and sent him a note. He ignored me. So, maybe she ignored me because that was socially awkward, but, seriously, just respond to the work content, its A JOB. But, nope, she ignored me until her colleagues responded and never, ever, ever, ever acknowledged she had recieved or ignored any messages from me.
It seems to be OK, understandable to that peer group – ignoring as a tactic or a response. It irritates the hell out of me. Likely, because my Pluto is conjunct Mars and Mercury. I like confronting and airing social awkwardness – I find it healing. We’re ALL imperfect and afraid or whatever. I suspect lots of Pluto in Libras are more like me than like Scorpios in that airing differences, negotiating differences, is important. But, the Pluto in Scorpio generation….it helps me to see their communication style being more about power. Not that they want to have power over me, but they want to know who has the power in a situation, who can make something happen, and if they can’t help, they won’t engage at all.
I do wish they’d be a little less intense. The live-in-nephew once said to me, as we were discussing his job prospects, that “Photoshop just isn’t me.” Fuck all – it isn’t me either, but knowing how to use it has helped me pay my mortgage. Who I am is greater than any one thing I do. But, with the Pluto in Scorpio generation, its like EVERYTHING they do is a summation of EVERYTHING they are. That’s a rough weight to carry. Maybe when they get their Saturn return, they will see their own evolution and embrace ambiguity of identity a bit more.
i think you’re right about power, but i think it’s also a response to being overexposed anyway, due to new media and communications. maybe that explains part of the reticence to discuss personal matters over electronic mediums.
i think that sucks / is really weird about your nephew, you would think that he would understand that nudity is part of art… anyway.
you’re right that there is a really absolutist view of who and what you are. maybe saturn return will change things but what i am finding as i progress through life is that attempts to be inauthentic for material gain simply don’t work out.
if it’s true that the whole world economy is going to hell in a handbasket then we may not have a choice about our standard of living, but we can choose whether we do something which makes us feel fulfilled.
Authenticity is huge. And important. And proper to be concerned about. But you guys have been given a bad experience, I suspect, having everything you ever do digitally available for others to use to judge your authenticity.
That’s my big problem with profile design online – the idea that I am one identity. I made a separate identity for my artist-self. I struggle over that a lot. Because why should I have to split myself in two? But, also, why should I be judged by people at work for my creative stuff? And that happens – people take something they find out about me online out of context all the time. Its bad design. Because the office isn’t allowed in my bedroom. So, why bring up something you suspect about my bedroom behavior in the office? Somehow, people think if you find it online, its fair material for discussion in whatever context they chose to put it in. Like taking a nude photo and judging me as a mother for it – its a fear of mine. I’m divorced. I’m not paid for my art. Someone I work with or my ex-husband might find out – I share stuff online – and judge me. But I am ready to fight that fight if I have to. Because I split my identity to protect my context.
My artist-nephew has a different stance. He didn’t tell me, I found it on tumblr. He was writing about how being online allows authenticity. It does. But he’s also unable to accept a job situation because it doesn’t reflect his authenticity. And that’s, frankly, immature. We can’t be all things to all people at all times. But, yes, we can and must be authentic.
So, I split myself. But all my selves are authentic. I don’t speak to my boss the way I speak to my sister. But both ways I speak are authentic. So, when my other nephew said “Photoshop isn’t him” he was taking an extreme stance – everything he does must express all of him at all times and in all contexts.
That’s unrealistic. Its undreamy. It confines imagination. Its metaphysically untrue.
If you explore quantum physics – check out “Quantum Activitst” on Netflix – and books like “Seth Speaks” or “Nature of Personal Reality” – you find that we have probable selves. Being undefined – experiencing your self as undefined – is a power. It is transformative, but not predictive. Prediction sets results. Prediction frames reality. The need to know what’s “expected” marginalizes the self. So, when my nephew says what is or isn’t him, or what is or isn’t authentic, it predicts the not-him, and the inauthentic. Its fearful of definition when true Self cannot be defined.
Its is a spiritual complexity everyone faces. I hope your generation can find maturity lessens cynicism towards the self – both the personal and collective.
Trying to be more succinct here: there’s a difference between being authenticly defined by your experience and defining experiences beforehand as being “authentic or not” in a predictive manner.
I’ve had tons of jobs I hate. But I managed to find one that works well enough for me. I wouldn’t have known what that job was if I hadn’t experienced all the shitty ones before. I value my experience. Ultimately, as a tech professional, my experience and my mistakes are what I am paid for.
So, maybe my nephew would hate using PhotoShop, but how would he know until he tried? The drive for perfect authenticity holds him back. He is perfect already. Imho, he just needs more experience to see what he can do with all that perfection. My only worry is that he will dismiss valuable experiences out of hand. But, so be it. We each find our own path.
look, not to be abrupt but i have had plenty of jobs that ‘aren’t me’ also. more than my fair share. from working in fast food to hospitality to youth work to training and development to insurance. a lot.
i don’t think it’s unreasonable to draw the line at something like using photoshop depending on the context. it must mean a lot to him not to do so. if it’s related to his art, then it’s probably even worse to feel like you’re compromising yourself.
sometimes it’s easier to get a crappy job that is unrelated to your art because it feels less like personal inauthenticity. it sounds like you have the luxury of that, but it doesn’t put you in a position to lecture others.
ultimately, all the experiences we have change us, and what your nephew is afraid of is true – we change to be like our environment, not the other way around – it pays to put some thought into what environments we engage with.
I have to say I sort of snickered at the Photoshop thing because I used to be sort of pure myself, anything I did had to be created by my own fair hands. But I’ve been working on mandala art I did many years ago and I’ve found Photoshop to be a blast – I love the creative stuff you can do with it. Sometimes you go through a phase, like I did, and come out the other side a bit more open. Sometimes, you don’t, of course!
Let me give the Photoshop comment a bit more context. I have mentioned two nephews – one is a photographer/artist and – last I heard – working at the Gap. The other is a brilliant ivy-league grad
(got in on a scholarship) who is looking for a job as a curator. Its the second one who said “Photoshop isn’t me.” He stayed with me for a bit while interning as a docent at a national musem. He’s now in NY working in an art warehouse. I don’t think he’s used Photoshop at all. He just decided it wasn’t for him.
I was an English lit grad. I was looking for jobs as an editor when I got my first job as Internet Assistant – thank God, because I had no idea what I was going to do and I love my career now. I still don’t know what that job title means. The job title is absurd. In later jobs, I was called “Web Master” or “Web Mistress” and I felt like I should have a light saber to stab someone with. Web Masters used to be part of operations in an organization – as in building operations, same offices as the people changing light bulbs, that’s how the Web was percieved initially – like toilet paper and other necessities. Web sites used to be hand-crafted. It was geeky, but the real power – as time has shown – is in the ability to communicate.
The technology has masked the work. Older generations don’t know how to line up the projects we need to do to improve communications – in general – they don’t entirely get it. Their neural pathways are materialistic – as in paper, storage, funding – not digital – as in infinte possiblities. I wish the Pluto in Scorp gen would speak up at work more often because I know they get digital better than I do.
I am now an Information Architect. That job didn’t exist when I was in college. I couldn’t have said that it is or isn’t me. I didn’t know. The job didn’t exist. My generation helped define it. And so will the next ones.
Its fine to not do what you don’t want to do. But your experience trying will shape the kind of jobs we have in the future. Nothing is ready made. There isn’t a power structure to step into that will be “you” no matter who you are. You make it by being it.
I don’t care about Photoshop. I get the debate between film and digital. I use both. And I would never recommend anyone stick with a job they hate. That’s not my point. My point is you can’t let the definition define you. You can’t be pre-defined. You craft the experience, craft the job, make it your own, and use every tool in the tool box to make it – your dream – happen.
There are LOADS of jobs that don’t exist yet for the Plutos in Scorpios to take on. But they have to engage to shape those jobs into being.
Really, speaking to people on this blog has helped me gain a lot of paitence with where Pluto in Scorps are at and why they are reluctant. I’m just offering my perspective for some contrast. Not really trying to critcize or judge anyone, in case anything I wrote came off as judgmental.
Sorry, 12th house Virgo, wasn’t being critical of your comments more being amused in hindsight about my own being-up-myself artistically speaking.
No problem, LibraAquarius. Its just the whole issue of Photoshop being worthwhile or not is another rant I could go on. I started doing self portraits because I was at a place mentally/spiritually where I wondered what the hell I was. I’d take a photo, look at it, and notice that with each feeling I was changed. Was I still human? Weirdness. I’m still human as ever. Now I have my digital, phone camera, Holga, 35mm, and Polaroid.
I used to get super irate about Hipsters and false nostalgia. The return of film and polaroids. But, I’ve come around. Its about trying to communicate. That’s all its ever about. I use every tool I can in that effort. No reason to have a fixed stance. But mabye that’s my triple conjunction in Libra speaking.
Its funny. I’ve never been accused of being overly diplomatic or wishy-washy about any issue ever. But on this blog, I’ve realized Libra-heavy people get called out on their perpetual need for balance. Sobeit.
Well, you’d have to say after my monumental rants on this topic that I certainly stuffed my Libran sensibilities right down in the underword!
“what i am finding as i progress through life is that attempts to be inauthentic for material gain simply don’t work out.”
I can totally relate to this. I keep trying it though! I think I’ve finally learned my lesson this time… hopefully
It’s quite comforting to know there are other people in the same boat. Fuck financial security, I’d rather do something meaningful and have nothing than be a slave to a million dollar mortgage.
I feel like reading through all these comments is really solidifying my views on what’s going on in the world at the moment! Fun times.
I think perhaps the expectation of the Pluto in Scorp group to ultimately end up sharing a set of values and a style of communication with you (very Libra, “we can all reach an agreed type”) when they are not inherent in our group is part of the problem? And yet at the same time you offer respect for the Pluto in Scorp’s differing manners but then you end on a note of “well maybe after their Saturn return they’ll come around.”
the examples you’ve given, I can see a problem in each one. perhaps not the same reasons why they didn’t respond, but I can certainly see A reason. for example, the marketing person. you say, “but, seriously, just respond to the work content, its a JOB” Then just send the work content. the mentioning of her brother should have been a completely separate email. knowing how intensely focused and all or nothing Pluto Scorps are, it’s completely disrespectful to add something so personal as a btw sideline. your work content suddenly became far too heavy. so she waited for others to respond first to change course. as for the last one, I get what he’s saying. I won’t do work that doesn’t represent what I am either. I tried it once and got so unbearably depressed within 4 months that I had to quit. it’s a different value system. we don’t want that house if we got it doing something that truly wasn’t us. your group is able to differentiate, that’s what libra energy does, so you’re fine with it, it’s not a struggle, and you don’t feel a loss of self. but we do. remember, scorpio energy is very highly prone to black/white thinking, that ambigious grey area is all libra and it may be something we never pick up. neither method is right, it’s just different.
I’m sure with the new awareness you and David5379 have shared together, you’ll channel your haute Pluto in Libra energy and figure out a new way to communicate with Pluto Scorps that will yield more positive results. We’re not impossible to reach, like any Pluto generation, we require a particular language, but unlike the other generations, we won’t humor you and respond anyway if you’re not speaking it.
I did send separate emails. She has never responded to me about anything since she gave me her brother’s email. Which she proposed to do.
Yeah, dialogue is important to me and I’m learning a lot from discussing things here. I do thrive in the grey area. It helps to understand how black and white Scorpios are.
hmm. in that case, I see no reason why she didn’t respond and agree that she should have. she may have thought “well I’ll give her his email and whatever happens, let it be up to and between them” but that’s reaching. either way, I don’t see that one as a Pluto Scorp case so much as it’s simply someone being emotionally lazy. :-/ no points for her!
In GENERAL i find scorps so like that, just in conversation will be terminated by a business or gotta fly thing, its usually when there learning or going to learn something. Because they like to be the first. Or just gonna go ruminate intensley over something said. Before replying.
With my moon in scorp it happens to me to a small degree, but my merc and aqua sun overide it/ make me combine it with a quick long intense detailed response..
But is why i dont have many good time with scorps, too darting non logical for me to intellectualy bond with.
And i have made scorpios call more, and not answer because to me a friend is steady not plotting, and to go 3 months with not a word, or update sans anything personal, why call then, so if you rarely call you will get me rarely answering, its not about power.
Its just wierd to have someone call after 3 months, then 3 minutes later they say i have another call. Let me call ya back? What the bleep.
Mars pluto square has some scorps i know by the tounge.
Your words, both here and above (re generalising and complaining) have reinforced my faith that your generation will be able to analyse the shit out of everything and potentially improve things. Thank you for your words. They are gold.
Ha thank you kind sir, or madame. Im excited to see what will come of my generation when we get older, at the very least it will get ugly, but to be fair, we will only be calling out how ugly it already was. Things have to get worse before they can get better I guess
It had never occurred to me before that my moniker is genderless. Interesting. My pluto in virgo thinks it’s not about to get ugly, it’s about to get real.
male female, whatever, where all space invaders here, thats whats important
and to it becoming real, awwww yaaaaa
I read a super-high-finance-guy in the Economist saying that what’s going on at the moment is not some strange aberration, it is reality attempting to assert itself.
SO pluto in cap, watch the news around dec 10-11 when uranus goes direct.
the economist?? exciting??? how can this be?? Uranus you deviant trickster you
I hope something GREAT happens, so exciting
whatevs, 98% of monikers are genderless. It’s really not that interesting.
LOL agreed hence whatevs + the fact I’ve never thought about it before.
YES I am Gen Y. I see a lot of peeps near my age growing older to reject what the baby boomers did. To sum it up, I imagine a Scorpio walking past a Leo and hitting them across the top of their head with a disappointed look and saying, “You ignorant tacky person.” And just keep walking. Not that I have anything against Leos, but I’m thinking of this in terms of new money bitch slapping old money. Leo would sooo be old money and Scorpio sooo new money yes? Also DEFINITELY think political. I’m thinking eventually the independent party/any other 3rd parties will bitch slap republicans and democrats kind of thing.
Leo isn’t oooold money, Leo is just money. Or the things you get with money.
Scorpio…idk has money but sees through its worth because that worth will probably go down in t+20 seconds
I think when talking about the post-war generation, if you haven’t experienced the after-effects of war and death, you can’t understand the desire of Leo in Pluto’s people’s need for jobs and security. I have finally worked out how much all that death and destruction affected my husband. He lost so many childhood friends to bombings in London. He lost fellow soldiers when he served in the Troubles in Cyprus. So now he shields himself from too much emotional attachment, he’ll cut off from people to protect himself from the grief overload. So many people died of lung cancer and other lung diseases because smoking was a way to survive the stress of war, death and destruction. And if you go back further, my father’s family were desperately poor in The Depression, as were people here in Australia, it leaves a lasting need for security and also for thrift and hoarding. I do wonder if the relief of the post-war era also exploded into massive consumption after so many years of rations, very limited food, limited luxuries, and so on.
Just speaking astro objectivley, each person no matter the generational karma has a chance to build upon the ashes of the former in a responsibile way. It doesnt matter 911 happend few blocks from my 21 year old mind. does that mean i go out and kill a few people with a hatchette or my attitude?
No- in general each persons mini epoch and group contributions are heald accountable by the next. You will have done it either haute or low.
I just think its so ironic, as my old pluto in leo boss used to tell me of the nursing home she was in was this and that. Horrible, im like did u go to one? Have you contributed, did u treat elderly nicely,- then u cant complain, well u can, but..
Wow. My siblings and i comprise Pluto in Virgo, Libra and Scorpio, with of course Pluto in Leo folks. Of course, these are individuals so it useless examining in this generalised context. However, i hear lots of generalised complaining from my own Gen X about Gen Y and often think it stems from improper communication. Observation of a generation is not the same as interaction with that generation.
Interestingly, the fire signs of Leo and Sag have produced strong reactions in comment above: isn’t that just like the melodramatic ego of overblown display that a fire sign can do so well? Realistically, however much we want to smack the egotistical in the face, it is important to find ways to evoke change because you cannot force it on a fire sign or you just get sparks.
In this sense, I love that Gen X & Y have quietly made sustainable and accountable living par for the course, and quietly uncool not to at least give lip service to this. You can see the gradual change in Boomer generation’s displays. Making a Leo feel uncool might be better than direct challenge. After all the generations have to live with each other still.
The pluto in scorp want the *truth*
Maybe we can blame the pluto in Leo for making it worse, but the fact is society was really messed up long before they were around, WW 2 and 1 anybody?
Believe that another world is possible
Have you borrowed this name or are you actually the musically productive dj shadow?
just borrowed mill
dont even get me started on that, when you follow the money and start getting in to the secret rich people then its more like how can they NOT control the world. I remember reading about a family that secretly controlled the gold price for the ENTIRE WORLD, which means they had literally an inconceivable amount of money, the only coverage they ever got was when they mysteriously “lost” there money, i think they just conveniently disappeared as soon as there existence was discovered
This video is awesome, djshadow. Thanks for sharing.
This doco and movement is totally worth viewing, looove it!
Feel my boys generation -Pluto in Sagg. They will def have to deal with global warming and evironmental disaters. As we are seeing now.
they are certainly feisty lil things..
Each generation after, knows more than the previous generation. I shudder to think what Gen Z will say to us “Why the hell didnt you do anything?”
I have no idea what its like to be born plugged into computers, Dsi, not being allowed outside for fear of sexual predators, murderers etc… We still dont know what the affect will be. They growing up in a different world to one I grew up in. As for previous gens too.
It is the job of the older generations to guide and help the younger generations, just feel that the older gen’s want to hold onto power and their assests for as long as they bloody can…It really is our turn now.
I just noticed and love that you used an image by shepherd fairey whose work has layers of plutonic intrigue re appropriation is it theft/not theft to illustrate this post mystic – perfect.
thank you x
Mystic, this is such a great topic and I’m enjoying the brilliant comments but can you please disable the youtube videos popping up?!!
I love music as much as everyone else here but I don’t want it SHOVED IN MY FACE!!!
I’m REALLY not interested in knowing what someone is listening to as they declutter their home or whatevs. I’m sure there are peeps who don’t mind being introduced to an artist but I’ve yet to see anything that’s blown my socks off, it’s just the same ol’ boring crap.
Seriously… must we be subjected to annoying earworm music like that ‘moves like Jagger’ song?!! (from another post) UGH! Surely a link will suffice? Then we get to CHOOSE whether we want to see it or not.
Thanks.
Hey the You Tube vids don’t pop up and start playing do they? On my browsers (Netscape and Firefox) i see them there but i have to actually hit play for them to, you know, play.
Are you saying your browser just plays them? I think you need to actually alter your personal browser settings to alter this
In the interests of speeding through the comments, I have noticed how much slower the embedded video links make it to scroll past comments. If there are several in one thread it can become very slow. The plain hyperlinks do not seem to have this effect. I don’t live in a city or have access to high speed internet.
nat do you clear your cache often? If you don’t clear your cache a lot of what has already downloaded to your machine shouldn’t have to load again on later visits – things like mystic’s masthead and the side bars. That might help with your chugging sensations. Not much but every little bit counts when you’re not on the high speed service right? The downside is if you go to gmail or yahoo or facebook your cookies etc will collect your keywords etc and advertise to you. I wonder if the NBN will help you where you are?
stopthecomplaining stopthemusic, I find the ability to add links is a great addition to the site, as mentioned you don’t have to play them ?
agreeee and besides, i wont just press on ANY link to some stinking video unless i can preview what it’ll end up looking like
My daughter is Pluto in Scorpio. She is such a creature, multiple Kataka. She has no interest in buying a car, has a horror of suburbs (as in, she actually is afraid of them…says they remind her of zombie movies) and has no affinity with the occupy movement. As for home ownership, she has become obsessed with buying a large piece of property out in the country where she dreams of having a community that is energy and food self sufficient. She says GIVE ME LAND! But not a house in town. That’s where the zombies live.
She’s not alone. I eschewed life in suburbia a year and a half ago and am now living on five acres in the country. I’m renting, but it’s still a good stepping stone to self sufficiency. Rainwater only here and growing my own food! Still on mains electricity but the next move will be to somewhere with solar/wind power. Perhaps I’ll manage to get a block of land and start building something awesome.
Not sure how old she is but let her know it’s totally possible, but it won’t all happen at once. You have to practice what you can now (growing veggies in the backyard, even if it’s a backyard in suburbia) to keep your mind focused on the end goal, because it’s easy to get disillusioned when it’s not happening now now now and you’re still living amongst the zombies.
And please give her a hug from me
I have Pluto in Scorp kids (born early 90′s). I deal with them and their friend’s parents. This is what I see with my 21 year old daughter:
Heading for success, ignoring the limitations, are where my daughter’s community is. They often have high paying tech jobs while still in school, working from home between classes and homework. They are almost arrogant in their assertion that nothing will stop them making a new world, played by their rules. Parents and those who have come before usually offer little direction, since they can’t even figure their own lives out. (The parents of same-aged kids seem bewildered by their children’s world and the choices they face, I’ve noticed.) They mostly have their school loans paid off by graduation and often own homes while still single. One boy my daughter dated had just become the third partner of an investment company at 24. His partners were in their 40′s.
They are hardworking and a tad desperate, in my opinion. I believe with maturity will come an amazing ability to restructure society more sanely than the one they came of age in. As soon as they start having children, I think they will turn their keen intelligence and drive to something beyond themselves.
I see a lot of hope for the world in the Pluto in Scorp generation. At least the ones I know.
What month did uranus go retrograde again? just trying to remember what was happening at that time, to be aware of what might come up at the end of the week, though I know what im gonna do!!!
July i think?
ah okay….thanks…
yah but uranus is now bk at point was at in March 2010 – zero Aries – so it’s going to aggravate the shit you should have changed since then but did not OR give you a great big fat bonus of awesome for all the hard change & transformation grift you have done since then
thanks 4 this query, shall theme the Monday Daily Mystic on it. xx
I’ve been working my ass off since March 2010!
Right thanks mm… I remember now you said it was at zero degrees, makes me realise I had the whole retro thing wrong in my mind. Right well march I was avidly applying for work, by august I got the job I wanted, now I want to leave and I think uranus going direct is gonna help… BTW was reading up on stanislav frog today, was mentioned in kundalini post, he coined the term spiritual emergencies, and as a psychiatrist researched the possibility of psychosis as a spi4ritual emergency, anyway interestingly he also researched astrology, and found that even as an initial skeptic his research showed the evidence of peoples states of being being effected by astro transits… he is an interesting read if you’re interested… thanks will read the dailies now ; )
*stanislav grof*
“stanislav frog”
was wondering what the correction was for.
Blame Merc Rx
hmm i am confused by mystic’s correspondent not thinking that the #occupy stuff is a pluto in scorp thing.
obviously there are people of all generations involved in the #occupy movement but it would seem that thematically some aspects are very pluto in scorp – the explicit understanding and discourse about power in society and how it impacts wealth distribution, who gets what and why… those would all seem to be scorpionic traits.
one thing no-one has talked about is generational attitudes to spirituality.
i wonder if pluto in scorp will be a generation pre-occupied with spirituality – not hippy new-age ‘aligning my chakras so i can perform better in my corporate job’ spirituality but full-on death and rebirth, karma and where do you go when you cark it? spirituality. i suspect you will see a bit more literature on the topic when pluto in scorps get a bit older and more weathered-looking so people take them more seriously when discoursing on the nature of enlightenment.
I think the OWS stuff is so Pluto in Scorpio. Its all about the power of shared resources.
Good point. Though do many people consider their spirituality outside of religion ? The core of the current ‘system’ has been established by fundamentalist western religion, (and I include ‘the new age’ in that line up)….as a spiritual system. Its our values that need changing. Once societies values are realigned to be more realistic and could i say humble ? we might have a chance to contemplate our navels in the endless search for enlightenment, instead of fighting for our survival. Lets face it if the ys can grasp the nettle and play hard ball….say French revolution pitch? physically crucifying investment bankers in public squares ? then we may see quick change. If not it will take quite a few generations to get it done. So be good, you may come back as your great grandson and find out you destroyed everything.
We may have to wait till the pluto in aries kids to really finish off the old and initiate the new. Thats about 50 years away. Enjoy, maybe the aquas will make ‘first contact’ ? and some really old leo will find the fountain of youth? Man they are looking pretty hard into all this rejuv stuff…..yep better get rid of them before they do that !!!
Interesting. I’d like to say that I’m of the Pluto in Scorp generation with Saturn/Uranus in Sagittarius, I don’t get along much with the latter half with the huge Capricorn Stellium but thats most of it personal….they’re generational planets oppose mine, putting a damper on things. Plus we just value different things.
Its important to realize that there are subgroups to every pluto generation has a sub-group and CULTURE always has the end say in it. As someone of East African descent I often find myself shaking my head each day when I come home from work because of the sense of entitlement that children today often do feel in this glorious First World Nation, but who’s fault is that? Its starts with the parents. It starts with the little things in life like teaching children the importance of responsibility, accountablity, etc., etc. Because the truth is, that all this translates later in life as to whether they’re MOTIVATED about anything or not. So for all the other older generations who feel that Gen Y-Z-WHATEVER is entitled, self-serving, or blahblahblah….you only have yourselves to blame since you raised them.
Is there a situation generic to Gen-Y experience? If there is, I wouldn’t know about it. I was raised by East African parents (of the Pluto in Virgo Generation) who drilled the importance of responsibility, education, and effort while also almost religiously venerating the familial ones (and I have a pretty large family). I still don’t understand why people throw some of their family members in Nursing homes here, but its their perogative. I’m currently stuck in a smaller Southern Military town where people say alot of ignorant and mindless crap across the age span. I work for a living with limited housing options since my employers refuse to compensate me properly for what I do everyday….all in the name of the type of license I have. No that’s not me feeling entitled either….I really do ALOT every day (anyone who knows what I do for a living would agree). Does it effect my work. Hell no. In my most recent Eval, my manager said I was still one of the most serious and hardworking people in my department. Do I dream of the white picket fence life? I dunno if I would fit in….its a bit WASPY, no? I come from a culture that does not think sooo far into future because we just never know. Right now I just still want to take a roadtrip to the Blueridge and meet the people native to the area (and I mean truly native).
My sister born of the Aquarian part of the Pluto in Scorp generation is on her way to Law School, she wants to do Human Rights. I’ve met alot of her circle at her school and they are some of coolest people I’ve ever met. They know to think for themselves instead of mindlessly eating whatever the media or government feeds them. Its a diverse place, so that could be part of it. And also, it just depends on where you go.
Just re-read this and damning my Merc-Neptune opposition for not being so coherent, but I guess in summary this is a rant against the ageism I see going on here. I guess I just find it hypocritical since the other generations have their share of downfalls too. I recall a certain generation before mine that were once known as perpetual slackers when they were my age. *whistles* In return, I have to say the only Pluto generations before me that can put their money where their mouth is is Virgo and Cancer. I’d take criticism from them anyday because they lived life SMART and not irresponsibly. I see alot of people around me interested in healing (major Scorpio theme), we’ve been through alot of tragically life-altering events such as runk driving which would’ve destroyed people from earlier times has awoken the call for regeneration in us. There are people my age that do suck, I agree, but they do not by any means represent the majority. I mean there are areas where the entire population is smoke and mirrors (see: L.A./Hollywood/Cali), but that just brings me back to the argument that enviroment and culture are to blame too.
Yes, agree, SourPatch, I’ve found the ageism a bit depressing because we’re all in the life boat together And particularly, having lived in the country – and being a bit city superior when I arrived – I’ve found these people, many of whom are elderly, to be absolutely wonderful. If you’re in trouble, they are there for you. They are quick to do volunteer work and have a great sense of community. Going the other way, however (and that’s my Libra Rising & Libra Sun, able to see both sides) I get very impatient with people who start: “Well, in my day….” Yeah, yeah, every generation says that! I think younger people these days have a far more difficult time than people of my generation did, in terms of having gone through 9/11, worries about climate change and the future of the planet, financial insecurity. But each generation has different fears. Something I’ve forgotten to mention elsewhere is that in the ‘sixties we really believed that nuclear war was going to break out, it’s sort of disappeared into the annals of history now, but it was a terrifying threat hanging over heads in those days. And when it abated, perhaps people went into a feeding frenzy out of sheer joy and relief that the world hadn’t come to an end.
HAHA, the nuclear war fear never really dissapeared. Its just now instead of the Iron Curtain, its the “ebil” Muslim world. Same story, new scapegoat. One of the low traits that makes me ashamed that this country shares my sign is its false-security consciousness. smh
And I guess I do have a soft spot for the Pluto in Cancer generation, part of it may be because it includes favorite relatives of mine, but some of it (in an endearing way) is envy. By no means did they have it easy back then but spiritually, I’d love to be able to go back to more simpler times. When the “care” and the “hardwork” mattered, and not all the stupid paperwork, fine-print, and loopholes. Then again, in 7th house sun fashion, I realize that would mean taking all the classist and racist stuff too so….meh.
I guess overall in the present…alot has to be destroyed and rebuilt. Starting with the Status Quo, and then to the way the whole system works. #1. The trickle-down system does not work and never will work, when there are probably 3% that hold the keys to everything. #2. I don’t know about elsewhere in the world, but here in the U.S. people (mainly the corporates) are more obsessed with “marketing” and appearance than the actual work or service and that to me is a big problem…especially if its creeping into healthcare.
And one more thing: What the hell is the #Occupy Movement about? I’ve read the jokes related to it on tumblr (and laughed), but in all seriousness its very vague. Is it anti-corporation or anti-government or what?
anti Wall street. Anti corporations and the big peeps behind it.
Dont forget anti rebublican and dem, we found out its nothing but kabuki show…
well idk i’d hate to live in false-peace and security…i would’ve just DIED in the suburban 50s, or maybe have daed and encouraged all the town’s ‘bad boys’
OMGOSH WE JUST JUMPED A FENCE yadda yadda yadda i hope this unrest doesn’t leave till the world’s where it really truly shoulld be! so glad to live in these times.
*dated…
If that’s in response to me, security was never my focus. In fact, I don’t think there’s ever been a time where there wasn’t some sort of fear (as I mentioned before). My problem is that success these days is more dependent on shallow flashy appearances instead of the true quality. I hate that certain people at the top are way more concerned with douching up their companies with the latest gadgets and more dumbass paperwork over quality service and treating their employees well. I guess that goes back to why I appreciate Pluto in Virgo and Cancer more than the others. I think one of the other things Pluto in Scorpio will bring back is quality over quantity and will reward loyalty over “who can kiss my ass the most?”.
I know this is a post about Pluto in Scorpio, but I did want to weigh in on the Pluto in Leo thing. I’ve never been able to figure out what happened to the people in the 60s during the 80s. Where was the peace, love, openness in the Regan-era? Major disconnect.
It seems to me that there was a sense of spiritual exploration/expansion that was tied to a particular TIME. I think it was Peter Fonda who said it was all about the summer of 1968? What happened astrologically then? Why should the portal, so to speak, open and close so quickly?
Perhaps this is too intuitive to communicate clearly, there was something in the human psyche that opened then. Psychedellics were part of that. Mind control experiments were part of that. But the spiritual continuity of those events was lost. I suspect secrets will come to light about that time that will enlighten all generations. I think there is something we all have to learn from Pluto in Leo yet. They did gain understanding of humanity we still have yet to put into practice. They just – generally – seemed to leave it in the summer of 68 as a personal right of passage, instead of a collective one.
As for how they will confront death, which we all must confront, I just watched a documentary about Ram Das. I never heard of him before, but its about how having a stroke challenged his spirituality. Its no accident that Pluto in Scorpio will be there as Pluto in Leo transitions. Pluto in Scorpio is unlikely to let any transformation get stuck in a time. The game is still in play. Evolution is a team sport.
There was a lower level of security consciousness in those days. People thought more like oh well, shit happens! The 80′s was the beginning of the era of ‘security and peace’ as the goal of society. Shit didn’t just happen, someone was to blame.
Security and peace is such a great idea that just worked out really bad. It started with Regan (star wars program) and ended with Bush (home security). We still live in post world war era, its going to take time to come to grips with the destruction of half the world and 50 million people. That might take a century. Life is short, but history is long. Our grandparents were murdering each other in droves. We need some serious distance on that. pluto in leo were the first post war generation.
Interesting. I don’t know if anyone has read any of the “Seth Speaks” books by Jane Roberts. I read the first few and dropped off. Anyway, in one of them, Seth posits that the World War generation learned a lot about conflict. Would that be the Pluto in Gemini generation? He said that generation felt a deep moral obligation to engage in conflict and also felt very personally the cost of conflict. He said that generation wanted a lasting legacy of peace, that they realized the harm of conflict and war, but that the economic benefits of the war machine out-ruled their collective desire. It was a big loss in terms of generational passing of knowledge/direction.
Hmmm…come to think of it, what happened to Pluto in Cancer lessons? My parents were Pluto in Cancer. My siblings are boomers. I’m the youngest of 8, so I feel like I always skipped a generation. My family’s vibe was to keep your head down and work hard and thank God for any scrap that came your way and keep your mouth shut. Pluto in Cancer would be the generation of security fears. I think its Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin who said “Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.” I’d say from a karma perspective, that’s played out clearly. Its odd to me that Leo’s thought security was worth more than freedom. Is that a boomer attitude? I think that’s the point when the ecomonic-war mind control machine took over reason through emotional-egoic appeal. Perhaps the Leo generation was susceptible to the pay off.
Im a big fan of Jane Roberts, I’ve read quite a few of her books. The Oversoul Seven books are brilliant. Another favourite is Aspect Psychology.
Keep up the book rec’s davidl
I was reading the Garuda last eve. If you have vol 2, will you see if labradorite is in it please ? It doesn’t appear in vol 1. please & thanks 
Want to explore essences in more depth.
I read the Seth books in college, my bestie was a generation older than me and had several them, will go on the prowl for them again.
I love the language used, the voice, very thought-provoking reading.
I began reading Seth in ’86 when I was pregnant with my Kataka.
When she was about 7 years old she asked “how many consciousness” do we have? She had seen a cat on a tv cartoon that had nine lives. Was pretty floored really and know Seth had something to do with it.
davidl and I have acknowledged we both have had an interest in the Jane Roberts books. They changed my life and were the only thing that made sense to me as far the soul, etc.
I went through a spiritual experience that had me feeling really ungrounded. After I settled into it, I read “Seth Speaks” and it was the only thing that spoke to my experience. As challenging as it is to accept some of the concepts intellectually, its the only fully articulate view of reality that makes sense to me. It kind of fell apart in the later books, imho. I think the material became too much for Jane Roberts and her husband to channel. Their personal experiences get mixed up in the material later. “Seth Speaks” and “Nature of Personal Reality” are gold.
In the 80′s, feel Seth Speaks prepped me for things to come before I met my teacher in ’90. Had an experience too and was very ungrounded (assimilation of new energies).
A couple of OOB’s before that. I could not get back in my body and paniced. Think it’s things like this thats important to share with others as this is where we’re heading…”this is not all there is” (this reality) and yet we are making the physical spiritual…no easy feat.
So true. Is my hurdle to speak, I don’t speak of so much of my past experiences, I have learned to be selective. I am viewed as odd as it is, then open my trap and prove it, lol. I have learned a lot from you Sweets, your Sun my Saturn
Definitely giving Seth books a fresh read from a more experienced perspective. thanks X
i think one thing that people forget when looking to the baby boomers and their dominant subcultures is that the media at large picks, chooses and controls what we read – especially then when there was no internet. If something is going against the norm or is subverting something it’s going to shift more papers. So they write and make a big deal about it. It’s as simple as that. Freaks sell papers = more money in the bank.
So while there was peace love and brown rice going on there were also a whole lot of people who weren’t hippies shagging their way through the summer of love and no one would bother to report on the status quo being upheld – who would read it? Not everyone dropped out etc. not sure if you’re in Australia but can you imagine john howard and his ilk “dropping out”? Those are the people who gained control in the 80s / reagan era. Sub cultures only speak for a portion of society, just because they get a lot of what would have been column inches in those days doesn’t mean they actually held the balance of power. There’s another coast to America and not everyone was California Dreaming. The music industry was hugely successful at packaging subcultures and selling them as accoutrements of music – it carried on into the 80s with malcolm mclaren and vivienne westwood. It’s all part of the machine.
Also I think that the loudest, most reported on and retrospectively romanticised subculture of the boomer generation turned their backs on the values of their youth when they “grew up and settled down” and got mortgages and the fear. I’ve been to boomer concerts with my Mum and in one – I can’t remember who but he was one of the leading protest movement singers of his time of kris kristofferson’s ilk, one of those guys – he made some kind of remark about the war and WMD etc and how wrong it all was and the entire audience who had been enthusiastic prior fell dead silent – you could have heard a pin drop. It was excruciating for him. He sat and stared at them for a minute and then started singing again. Alone. In a room full of consumers making a negotiated reading of the spectacle that was him and his heartfelt protest music. I felt so uncomfortable for him.
When I talked to my mother about it – I was incredulous that what was an entire previously organised and politically motivated niche of a generation could have so lost its way – she said “I never protested anything I was busy being a single mother to you and I don’t listen to his music for the words, it’s about his voice and the melodies and the memories”. I felt like the life force had drained from my body. I had grown up on those words of protest and they formed part of the fabric of my uranian revolutionary personality. Now it was all just lies? The music of protest has evolved into a panacea??? It’s like dropping a dreamscape and scuttling off to the safety of your youth??? Yet another disappointment at the hands of pluto in leo – that’s when I realised they were just having a phase in the 60s. Just like every other generation has phases. Just like every generation has protestors as well as john howards. Just like my hair used to be black and vertical and I read a lot of edgar allan poe but now it isn’t and I don’t.
And the summer of love and the “portal” you mention? I suspect it was largely due to the uranus in cancer sub set of the pluto in leo generation changing the nature of the family bond and structure along with the pharmaceutical industries release of the contraceptive pill onto the open market. Then the sexual revolution really took off and as a result of that we rolled on into the 80-90s with an AIDS epidemic and then the fear of mortality gripped them collectively as the generation’s sexual exploits were weighed against a feather.
so yes @12th house virgo (how does that work out for you? Is your ascendant as well?) I just saw one of your later comments. As you say – susceptible to the pay off.
Virgo rising with Sun and Venus in Virgo in the 12th. Technically, I’m 12th house Leo, since Leo is my 12th house cusp. From what I can tell, Virgo 12th Venus + Sun = never having sex.
Re – the 60s. I love the comment about the Poe phase. Intuitively, I feel that the difference between all adolecent phases and the phase of the Leos is that there was something real about that experience. I met a Pluto in Leo guy online. I had some Skype chats with him where he tried to impress me with his energy-healing-spiritualness. He has some ego problems, but he had a lot of energy and I had strange dreams after that conversation. Going through halls of healing and realizing that there is a lot we learn through voyages of consciousness and those lessons aren’t as unstructured as it may first seem. Again, this is intuitive so not easy to explain or defend. Just an impression that we have more to sort through in the records of that era – what real learning was supressed and why – that sort of thing – so we can give legitimacy to what IS real and not just a phase.
I’m not glorifying the self-indulgence of those times or suggesting we go back to drugs and sex and whatnot. I hope we can go revisit the lessons learned, the experiences had, in spite of the drugs and sex and music. If that makes any sense.
“Intuitively, I feel that the difference between all adolecent phases and the phase of the Leos is that there was something real about that experience.”
I think part of the difficulty with these intergenerational conversations is that it’s really hard not to be subjective and sometimes the language used can come across as patronising or implies an attempt to negate the experiences of one in favour of another. That’s how I feel about your sentence although I suspect and anticipate you didn’t mean it to come across or for me to read it in that way – pluto in libra right?
Whatever generation and experiences a person is born into or has IS reality to them. If they had a pulse there was something real about their experiences. I’m sure the women of Greenham Common or the poll tax protestors would feel pretty pissed if they heard their efforts being described as any less real than those of the protestors of the 60s. And I don’t think half of that music or the experiences had in the 60s would have even been dreamed of without the drugs sex etc. It’s integral. The likes of Tippi hedren and nancy reagan made everyone scared of all that in the 80s. I’d prefer not to deny the inconvenient truths or gild the lily. Pluto in virgo.
Not sure which lily I’m guilding.
But, after I wrote this I thought that the difference is – to be general – that Pluto in Leos are materialists. The spiritual experiences that gained popularity in the 60s were induced by manufactured substances. Mysticism was a product. Later, they approached security with the same sense of control – StarWars and all that – controling the uncontrollable.
Its unfortunate that real spiritual experiences got wrapped up and thrown away in a materialistic wrapper (a la drug culture). Since you percieve me as trying to guild a lily, that’s the one.
Its so funny that I’ve never ever ever in real life been called a lily gilder. I’m called intense, irreverant, a bitch, whatever, but never a lily gilder. Although, on this blog I have been told several times I am somehow less-than because of my Libra energy. So be it. We’re all designed by someone/thing other than ourselves. My job is to be what I am. Not to question the design.
And the materialistic stance toward spirituality isn’t just the drugs inducing the experience. Its the idea that you have to go to India and get a guru to have the experience.
I think it’s really what people thought they ought to do in those days – the idea that spirituality had to come from someone else because the West wasn’t good enough to do it without Eastern influence. But in the end, for me it’s the fact that you can’t keep handing over responsibility for your needs to others, you need to acknowledge your own inner gift of love and own your own authority. If that makes sense (looking a bit dubious about this, actually).
it was the revisiting the lessons and experiences in spite of the drugs and sex and excess that seemed like gilding the lily. The idea of not taking a holistic view. And the use of the word materialistic makes your intended meaning clearer than that pluto in leo’s experiences were more “real” than any other generations. It was just the language you used that i struggled with. I’m not sure what anyones else has ever said to you but I’m not suggesting you be anyone else just letting you know that the language you chose made it easy to read your words in a way that they weren’t intended. I’m a libran sun with my chart and sign ruler also conjunct in libra – not seeking to diminish your pluto in libra more understanding its essence actually.
Oh…I see how it sounded like that. Its hard to read intentions in a blog stream. Best to just ask or clarify (as you did and helped me to do).
I guess the 60s time seems relevant because it framed so much of the following discourse around drugs and spirituality. And I think its fair to say the frame of the 60s may not be valuable (for lack of a better word) now, but the social impact of spirituality is important and still not fully integrated into our society. The 60s gave us social experiements. They’re like a landmark in the collective psyche of what “open” lifestyles may be like. I feel newer generations may be able to put into a more realistic context. In otherwords, the way newer generations rewrite the historical narrative tone of that era…I think its important that it get reframed…protests, social justice, sex, and all that. Its intuitive to say the eras relate at all – 60s and now. I have no facts for it. Maybe it happens always. I suspect history as I experienced it will be written in a narrative voice I don’t recognize. But for some unexplainable reason, I feel like the Pluto in Scorpio generation will rewrite the narrative tone in which the 60s story is told. I expect it to be interesting to watch them make the issue their own in ways and to depths earlier generations didn’t realize.
whatevs, read an insightful astro blog and the author wrote the phrase ‘tumultous late 60′s’ : how difficult, war, death, tearing apart the country, etc. all true.
and I immediately thought, I was BORN with that. This is my LIFE not a phase, instead is the natural progression FROM that time.
I think the same of these Zap Zone babies. Will be interesting to see what comes next….
exactly – I realised in that moment after that concert that while they were having a transit I was carrying it as part of my make-up – we are the essence of that phase they had – is interesting to think about it in that context. And I always think we are made for these time – the late 60s kids – made to deal with this zap zone phase of history because we were born on the axis of its cycle. blah blah i’ve been in the blue devils lair so i’m not even going to try and explain myself. this is all something to do with physics and repetition I’m sure of it.
I think, whatevs, that people forget the huge changes which have taken place since the ‘sixties and early ‘seventies. The huge protest movement against the Vietnam war was very powerful and helped end support for it. I was in the women’s liberation movement and it was revolutionary at the time but it got co-opted into feminism and women being nice and not rocking the boat, even though there were huge changes in things like reactions to domestic violence, legislative changes which benefited women (at least here in Oz), but essentially women are still have to work hard for equal pay, decent, cheap childcare, an end to sexism and all that. Better-off women may have benefited to some extent, but not the less skilled women workers. The media message has been that women have succeeded and, like you said, you can’t underestimate the power of the monopoly media like the Murdoch empire which has tentacles right through the newspaper industry here in Oz and in the US. But I also think that people got drained when their efforts didn’t affect the status quo. Think of the big demos against the Iraq War. Howard said “yes” anyway and I think sometimes people just feel they can’t make much of a difference so they’d better make the best of their lives in any way they can. I don’t know that people perhaps deep down changed their values, I think they got exhausted with ongoing battles that appeared to be going nowhere. Plus people like Howard have waged a very skilful campaign to keep people mired in fear. Perhaps now we’re learning to get on our feet again instead of living in our knees. I do think you can look back from one generation to another and make judgements but if you haven’t lived it, none of us really know what the previous generation was born into, experienced and lived through.
We haven’t forgotten. Pluto in Leo will not allow it. I like the way you’ve referenced joseph heller / catch 22 and have always thought living on the feet was superior to dying on the knees.
I have two mottos: It’s better to die on your feet than live on your knees (although I’d prefer to stand on my own two feet and live, of course
and the second one is: “A life lived in fear is a life half lived”. Hopefully we’re coming to and end of the fear of the past decade and we can tell the fearmongers to go stuff their fear where the sun don’t shine.
I was raised by a single mum also, and as a kid I never went without. We always had money. Mum had already paid the mortage by the time she was 28. Now, Im 27 live with my stepdad because i cant afford to even rent a place?? Afraid of my HECS debt, working casually, so I have no holidays or sick pay. Mum had a stable government job without a degree.
WTF!!!
Seems a bit of a disconnect there…why in the 80′s and 90′s that single parents had it quite well…??
I don’t think all single parents had it so well, Sassy. I think it’s your Mum who was responsible because she got her arse into gear and was focused and organised – kudos to her!. I think in all this we have to consider people’s astrological makeup – an Earth sign may well be more practical than an Air sign. Or whatever else goes into someone’s astro profile. I do think that in the Howard years he and his Ministers worked damned hard with big business to knock off working conditions which is why there’s so much casual and part-time work around. It sounds good in theory “ooh, yes, let’s have flexibility” yada, yada, but in reality it means less wages, less security (and yes, that is important whether we like it or not) and less collective security in the workplace. Also, re the housing, things like negative gearing encouraged speculation in the housing market, plus the first homeowners bonus simply added to the price of housing. I’ve always thought the McMansion mentality had to come to an end too, big houses mean big prices plus huge overheads. We’re all coming back down to earth with an almighty thump. Cue for the Zap Zone (dramatic music, drums beating, eerie voices
)
what interests me libraaqua… and i want to preface this by saying that i am a feminist (alas too young to have been around for the days of womens lib and queer lib…).. is the way women entering the workforce has changed the economy and made housing less affordable for single people.
what Sassy is describing – the fact that her Mum was able to own a house as a single wage earner – seems quite realistic for a time when it was assumed that most families had one primary wage earner (the man!). even though of course working class women were still working, their contribution as a wage earner wasn’t taken seriously compared to men’s earning capacity.
these days if you are a single person you have no chance of owning a house. you basically have to be a double income family in order to own property.
i’m not saying this is a flow-on effect of feminism so much as an unforeseen consequence of neo-liberal policies combining with demographic changes in the labour force. now that both members of a couple are usually working, instead of getting ahead financially they are still bogged down with housing costs which have increased as a proportion of household expenditure, but single people are completely locked out of the market.
of course the impact on single mothers, women escaping domestic violence etc is terrible. homelessness is probably the single biggest danger to women escaping DV (apart from the obvious – the perpetrator’s violence). as a feminist i have always seen housing as a basic human right and so as i said, i don’t think feminism is to blame, more like capitalist policy-makers cherry-picking which parts of the womens lib platform would be most profitable for them.
so… yes good on Sassy’s mum for getting her act together to provide for her kids – obviously personal choice is part of it – however the market has changed dramatically over the last 20-30 years and i find it a bit simplistic to blame McMansions or crass consumerism or some other thing when the numbers suggest something else is happening.
i don’t have any sources to back this up mind you as i haven’t read any articles about it… but i think there’s probably a PhD in it for some canny economist.
I agree with you. Somehow it’s morphed into two people having to work to get by and childcare costs are so high that families nowadays have a real struggle to work and make ends meet once childcare is paid for. I think you’re right about the cherrypicking but I still think the McMansion syndrome has also been pushed to ensure people enter deeper in debt and are more heavily indebted to the system, so to speak. I don’t know whether it would be right to say there’s some dastardly plan, to be very honest, just the workings of the system. I think this whole subject is incredibly complex and it’s been good to see people coming at it from all directions, gives a more all-round picture, doesn’t it?
I think your observation is brilliant. I am a single Mom and I own my house, but that’s possible for me because I spent 11 years in the marriage-money-making-machine. Without years living as one off two incomes, I we never would have made the equity to be able to live alone.
I suspect the Pluto in Scorpio generation will change the paradigm of a romantic heterosexual relationship as the foundational unit of society. They have to. Gay or straight or whatever – it isn’t just about sex or money or gender – its all of it – its about reasonable use of resources. Its just not economically feasible any longer. Maybe women in the workforce pushed the issue, but either way the single-income family model had limited sustainability. Humans thrive in groups and I think we’ll see more group living arrangements as our economy gets more authentic. For most of human evolution, the kind of isolated coupled social unit wasn’t feasible. It takes a village to raise a child and all that.
If you think about it, wealth and sexuality are the same in as astrological energy. Pluto rules the 8th house – shared resources. The Pluto in Scorpio generation has the skills to figure this one out. The bind is about being expected to conform to livestyle arrangements that don’t work or can’t work or aren’t accessible work for everyone. I expect group living arrangements will become more creative and rewarding and important to Pluto in Scorps. Being that Pluto in Scorpios value their peer connections so much, it seems that kind of transition is underway.
I know that doesn’t solve the problem of any individual. I know people are suffering and being marginalized economically. I know I’m fortunate. Still, it feels right to be optimistic that good changes can come of tough times.
I remember reading in one of my novels that if you meet a brick wall, rather than bash it down, you need to find a way to walk around it. So I’d really like to think that in times to come we – the people, young, old and in-between – get together and co-operate to walk around the plutocrats and make a new world leaving them redundant. Okay, okay, you can call me a dreamer, as dear old Lennon would say, but if we don’t dream and work to make dreams of a better society come to fruition, life to me is a bit meaningless. I know there’s that saying that we’re spirits in a material body, but what do we come here to do? Waft around and be utterly self-centred and ignore suffering, poverty and abuse of the earth? The practical aspects of Earth to me are what gives us our biggest spiritual lessons. Witness Pluto – heh-heh-heh.
larks — I am in the US and we are flooded with foreclosures, a lack of qualified “typical” buyers, and so young singles with good jobs are buying houses to live in and as rental properties because the market is wide open to them. The fact that their credit is new usually means it is untainted by life’s ups and downs and they are seen as a good credit risk here. This includes women, like my daughter’s 30 year old single college professor friend who shares her beautiful home with another woman, while the other woman is finishing school.
twas me, not annonyous
Your mother (and you vicariously) were lucky to be in that phase of capitalism where the middle classes in the developed world had it relatively easy. My single mother was in the early 70s and it was not easy for her – she was also dealing with the cultural issues of society getting to grips with the uranus in cancer subset of the pluto in leo generation. It was not acceptable to be a single mother then and as a result often hard to find work and a wage to support a child and rent a house – if someone would rent on to her. Your mum’s timing was better. Unfortunately you’re at the end of the cycle my mum was at the beginning of. Even though things might be tough and there is some adapting to different ways of life and work (which is I think what the pluto conjunct uranus in virgo subset of gen X are here to learn about and work through) you definitely have it better than my mum did in that society accepts you and your family unit, but not as good as yours did in terms of employment opportunities. The 80-90s phase was a boom in the cycle. Fi would be able to explain this concisely. We can’t live in the past tho it’s not going to pay the bills.
this is whatevs by the way
I remember reading Michael Lutin’s astro blog a few years back; he was saying that =we were about to be heading into a major period of social and political upheaval that would make the 60′s awakening look like sleepwalking.
Not sure exactly what transits he was talking about, but there might be something on his site: http://www.wheresthemoon.com
Pluto was in Capricorn when USA became a country, and many of the founding fathers had Pluto in Scorpio. Example: Thomas Jefferson Pluto 15rx in Scorpio. Thomas Paine 0.57 deg in Scorp.(wrote the book Common Sense, that many believed influenced the Boston Tea Party)
I’m not saying this Pluto gen. is or will be anything like that. But I’m just saying! that’s what the last Pluto Scorp gen had going on. Pretty powerful world changing stuff going on there.
Alright so, we’re bubbly as hell and pretty annoying. Sloppy. But i still love hearing about this, what about us baby Pluto in Sag generation?
My daughter is Pluto in Sag. So, of course, I think you guys are/will be the greatest generation the world has ever seen
ahahahahaahaha well look i know i shouldn’t be specifying my age so readily on the world wide wicked web, but i’m only two months in my generation of pluto in saggs- sometimes i catch myself looking around at my younger classmates and think we’re all juvenile as hell and can FEEL our teachers’ pain- but hten i get off my high horse, get over myself, actually LET myself free and act just as bad (if not worse) than the rest.
maybe being so near the pluto in gen ending has rubbed a bit of its own magic off on me?? like, maybe i was given scorpionic insight on everyone around me +myself? I can be the harshest critic of all when i’m feeling down &then later can throw every last reprimand out of my head and have a ball. at least we know we’ll have fun?!
congrats on your daughter btw, wish you both the best xx
Epic post. Have read some, scanned some and no it’s not related to particular generations, just a lot of posts to read and lots of info.
I am Gen X, possibly lost (LOL ~ still!!??), I don’t see myself as part of the general group of Gen X but then when it’s through our eyes about ourselves it can only be subjective. I never did conform and still do things my own way but that is not because any paticular generation made me that way. I decided and I still do decide how it’ll be for me and it’s not because I have to align myself to a belief or subsequently distance myself.
My folks are obviously Boomers. Neither wealthy or touring the country in a caravan. Both worked hard to pay for the basic things they had, no excess then or now. Divorce saw them doing it hard, two jobs etc and both have stil paid of their homes quicker than me… I still haven’t. I admire my mum for making her money go as far as it did back then.. ok, maybe it could be related to different times but I think the difference is/was sacrifice for the goal. Later generations (and I include my own) do not seem as focussed on that.
Every generations has it’s residue from the one before and it’s challenges.
I think every generation has the anarchy aspects and fuq the establishment has been going on since time untold and will probably continue to do so.
I think every generation makes it’s mark in gold somehow too.
It made me sad to see this post get tense. Love all the wisdom and banter from all of you.
My apologies for the tenseness in my posts, Scorched Earth, I don’t know what came over me, I think Pluto smashed his way out of the dungeon and went on a rampage. Perhaps a reminder to me that underneath my Libran sense of justice and fairness there’s also a shadow side ready to leap out and go on the rampage. Sobering return to reality
Aww. As a plutonic Leo this is a fairly permanent state of affairs for me, lol! I think you made some fair points, it’s not that the others weren’t right but there was a them/us consciousness that was disheartening. By stating what you did that awareness was invoked into the conversation.
Thanks, Andromeda, I’ve been beating myself around the head with remorse today
Well, the content of your comments was definitely thought provoking, Lady Libraquarius and I for one found them interesting, as well as the ensuing ideas from many. You brought David5379 to the table somehow, too.
Have to say, i did think there was something personal going on to fuel the sensitivity, and i’m not a bit surprised it’s about money as finance/economics is fundamental to this post.
Lots of sympathy from a Sag influenced Piscean who can easily chunk any one of four hooves in own mouth
Admire your bravery.
Thanks, milleunanotte. As one who once commented to a guy in an office (years ago, my excuse) when he said he’d returned from the Philippines: “Hey, you wanna be careful, might come back with a Filipina bride!” at which comment the whole office went quiet and the friend when red (no need to tell you the outcome), I am quite adept at shoving my foot in my mouth!
ROFL!!!
No apology needed LA!!
Love ya and what you write had truth too and is no less valid than anyone elses opinion.
Just the peacekeeper in me feeling helpless standing by watching I guess.. and I’m in a sooky mood today, ex on the phone for ages, missing me and making me sad about stuff I don’t need to think about and why do it anyway? I don’t get it
Hey libraquarius – it’s ok hot topics always bring up hot reactions and I for one think it’s better that the thread did get a little heated rather than turn into some smarmy, new age, over rationalised, detached “polite” discussion with no heart or soul. At least it shows people really do care about the issues that have been brought up quite passionately. We are all, to varying degrees and for different reasons, concerned about our world, our cultures, our governments and our business leaders. I have not heard one person here state categorically “keep things as they are coz it’s great!”. No … we recognise the need for a deep purging – radical systemic and structural change and that actually warms my Aquarian MC/Mars 10th house.
You know, I’ve been wondering why I was feeling so emotional these past few weeks and I’ve realised I’ve just passed the 4th anniversary of my dad’s death. I think I managed to stuff this down into my subconscious somehow and it’s just surfaced. I can’t work out whether it’s grief because he was such a bastard and I still wish things could have been better or just plain grief at the loss. Bix mised up on that, methinks!
Why is it that Dads and feeling judged seem to go together? Or is that just me?
I had a personal moment the other day where I realized I wanted a Dad. My Dad is alive. I do have a Dad. He’s here but he’s insane. Anyway, never found “Dad” feelings easy to get through. God the Father and all that Catholic upbringing of mine maybe. Anyway, glad you have compassion for yourself on that stuff. Compassion for self is wisdom.
You’re right, 12th house Virgo, the Dad stuff is a pain in the arse sometimes, isn’t it? Like you, my own father was off his rocker with mutliple strokes and dementia caused by raging alcoholism, and I always felt I wasn’t good enough, been hard to get over. I’ve also just realised that yesterday I came extremely close to carking it from heatstroke so no wonder I’ve been tied up in knots. Sometimes you can analyse yourself to death and then the emotional crap suddenly bursts in from nowhere and it’s like a big light going on. Yes, I’m off to give myself some compassion, I need it, processing a lot of death stuff, real Pluto and Scorpio heavies going on, eh?
My two cents, as a Pluto in Scorp conjunct MC
Here’s the thing: As we were growing up, we listened to you, our elders and saw you struggle to make the Dream. We realized that was exactly what it was, a dream; ephemeral, and always out of reach. You told us to stay quiet; We obliged, and observed, listened and watched what was happening. We grew up in an absolutely fake world, and you complain that we are out of touch with reality. You left us to be raised by T.V. and Video games, and you complain we don’t make real, meaningful connections and that all we care about is the newest gadget. We saw your marriages explode, and how you treated each other (or us) afterwards, and you say we don’t respect you. You gave us nasty processed fast and junk food, and you wonder why you have an obesity crisis. You push us to go to Uni, and when we get out (if we do!) we have a mountain of debt that we have almost no chance of paying off. Not to mention what goes on there, between the insane workload, the pressure, having no idea what we want to do with our lives, etc. The classes are a joke, by the way. Oh, and good luck finding work; When you have your degree, they tell you that you’re overqualified, because you don’t want to pay us what we’re worth! And you wonder why we turn to booze and drugs. You brought the world that we inherit to the brink, and yet you only escalate your strain on its resources. You spent our inheritance on baubles and cheap champagne, and wonder why we are so pissed. Our generation saw rampant murder and sex abuse, and we felt your fear that we could be next, at any time. You tried to program us with your religion, and took our power away, the power to be a human being and take charge of your own life. As we grew up, a lot of us explored alternative sexualities, and you decried that it was immoral, and that we would be purchasing a one way ticket to Hell; Well, that be hard to do, as we’re already there!! Ditto goes for alternative religions. You taught us survival of the fittest- well, guess what? We’re the fittest. Do you think we’ll be kind or show mercy?
The only thing I am surprised at is that we have stayed so docile for so long. There is an explanation for that though- within each and every one of us is a monster; Huge and terrible, dark and full of hurt and rage. You taught us to shut out everything real, and as such we left it out in the cold. Well, it got strong and survived, and its back and we are scared to death of it. This is our Achilles Heel, and the only way around it is to integrate the shadow. If we do not do this, as a generation, we will destroy ourselves, and take you lot down with us.
We took our cues from those who came before us, but rarely our parents. How could we? They were never there!
And I will let you in on a secret: There is much more out there than the world you can experience sensually or intellectually. I have yet to meet someone from my generation who has not had some intense and extremely personal connection to what you would call “Supernatural”. Harry potter and Twilight are popular with us for a very good reason! And you tried to tell us that it was not real.
We want a separation from those who came before us, so we can start again. Your way did not work, and we will be having none of it. There is a better way, and we will find it, make no mistake.
We dream of a better world in every way, and we will create it.
As for the rest of you, we gladly welcome your earnest help. The rest of you, shut up and stay the fuck out of our way.
Straight from the horses mouth
Sounds a little ‘master racey’ for my liking. If your not with me your against me ?hmmm, heard all that stuff before. Careful.
this post is going to cause nothing but trouble since the other Pluto generations have made up with themselves since their rants and thus they shall all gather around this. but as a fellow Pluto in Scorp, I understand where this is coming from, certainly the frustration inherent in it. “we want a separation from those who came before us, so we can start again.” I’ve noticed this in everyone I’ve encountered in our generation, we really won’t be adopting anything from past generations and that’s going to piss a lot of them off. it’s my hope that we will do all this with a compassion we were not shown, to be kinder and better than the world that was handed to us with the utmost irresponsibility and is still being trampled on during a time when it’s so significant to change course. we have indeed inherited the shadow they never acknowledged and it is my hope that we will transform it rather than be annihilated by it. i’m not going to patronizingly tell you to “watch your mouth” or be “careful.” you spoke from the heart, and you did what Pluto Scorp does, you allowed it to be ugly. your concerns are legitimate, your feelings are legitimate, and you don’t need retrospect permission (or lack thereof) from future repliers to say what you have said. all we can hope is that our generation acts out of compassion rather than revenge, and that we do indeed find mercy in our hearts. but it’s a long night and the road is dark.
oops. wasn’t signed in. :-\
Thanks @Anonymous. You’re right, that was 100% real, and very cathartic. Your last lines struck a chord with me, and reminded me of this.
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
Invictus, by William Ernest Henley
Oh, and the rest of you- I wont apologize for what I said. That was me, giving Pluto in Scorpio a voice. You try putting words to feelings that intense, let me know what you come up with. Like one of the previous commenters said, we’re kinda desperate, and we don’t have time for any b.s. You do see your social structure falling around your ears right now, don’t you? Get real
no need to apologise, everyone’s entitled to being heard. I enjoyed reading your post and I’m Gen x. I like 100% real. Especially “The rest of you, shut up and stay the fuck out of our way” It’s so Scorp, it made me laugh
I laughed to. I’m loving the view I’m getting into Scorpio intensity. Its a little scary. But its scary with heart. Understanding the astrology helps me appreciate the tone.
Hahaha thanks guys. Glad you like
and i dont mean to scare, just to speak. But I do aim to misbehave!
Well, I’m a Scorp, we don’t scare that easy
You have a Gem moon? That might explain the misbehaving. What’s your Asc?
Sun 0’55 Gemini conj Pallas Athene/Toro/Phaethon
Moon 28’14 Aries conj Eris/Venus/Eros/Vesta
Asc 2’11 Aquarius, loosely conj NN in Aqua
You?
Oh Aries moon. *nods* That’s where the fighting spirit comes from.
I’m Scorp sun in 10th house conjunct Neptune
Sagg moon, Cap rising. Venus in Libra, mars Virgo, Gem NN.
Wow, those are some high powered placements!
Cheers. I like my chart. It’s only taken a several decades to appreciate my Cap Asc but I love it now. Ya gotta when Pluto is transiting LOL. I have a packed 8th house too, so there’s no stopping me when I want something but right now it’s to chill out on account of Neptune transiting my 2nd.
I’m most excited about Neptune getting the fuq out of Aqua in Feb. Think my mojo my return by then.
Cheers. I like my chart. It’s only taken a several decades to appreciate my Cap Asc but I love it now. Ya gotta when Pluto is transiting LOL. I have a packed 8th house too, so there’s no stopping me when I want something but right now it’s to chill out on account of Neptune transiting my 2nd.
I’m most excited about Neptune getting the fuq out of Aqua in Feb. Think my mojo may return by then
Oops, didn’t mean to send twice. Im typing on my phone. Bloody Merc Rx!
lmao gotta love it. Yeah i hear ya, Pluto is bearing down on my Pluto like a freight train, and will be moving back and forth over it the entirety of 2012. Not that im letting Pluto rile me up at all lol. That would be silly
F.A.G – I have Aries moon too, conjunct Saphho, and a Scorpio Ascendant, conjunct Venus/Neptune/Dark Moon Lilith/Bast, not to mention about 10 other asteroids in Scorp in 12th house, that all square my Mars and Saturn, and Pluto conjunct Ceres near MC.
I am early Gen X.
I think I get you. Nothing like a highly intense scorpionic type; you sound a lot like me at about 21.
When I was about 30, I wrote for the Parliament about what marital breakdown was doing to kids, on the back of research that took me all over the country. I was really, truly shocked at how incredibly childish so may parents are, both during the breakdown of the relationship, and after. I had up until then, thought that my parents should have divorced, rather than keeping me as a whipping girl in the middle, but after that, I wasn’t so sure. What I do know is that parents should have to get a licence to have kids.
More recently, I wrote a chapter in my thesis about what the double-earning parent household (a bit of a necessity given house prices) was doing to kids, who felt neglected. Attention deficit disorder? So often parental attention deficit disorder.
You speak of religious stuff forced down your throat, that took your power away. Note that according to the stats, most Australian parents of pluto in scorp gen are not religious, so maybe you drew the short straw there, if having your power taken away is what happened to you.
I totally get what you say about uni. I teach there. I am not someone who thinks the system is working.
What I want to say to you is this: your post sounds like a manifestation of narcissistic rage, thanks to parental attention deficit, and a crazy world that you are intelligent enough to have nailed in your post.
But as you so rightly say, nothing constructive comes from narcissistic rage: it has to deal with its shadow before it can be a force for good. One day, you yourself may be a parent, or in a position to deal with those of a younger generation.
Believe me, Pluto in Sagg will give narcissistic rage-fuelled Pluto in Scorps like you (particularly those of the Gem variety) a major run for their money, since Sagg has a capacity to be a little more generous in its judgements, and to pull the rug right from under Scorpio overlords, with laughter, and truth about the remnants of the shadow that Pluto in Scorpio has decided to hide under a rock.
As a Sagg Sun with a Scorp ascendant, I have seen this, and done this, to myself, and to other scorps – not to mention countless gemini’s, who can intellectualise til the cows come home, but generally lack the killer punch, as they find integrating the shadow a life’s work that they talk a lot about but never get to, since they usually get distracted by countless other more interesting diversions.
Good luck!
oh, and as for “I will let you in on a secret: There is much more out there than the world you can experience sensually or intellectually”
….I can only LOL.
Do you really believe that no one who came before you – and all here – don’t know this?
Sorry if your parents were anti all this, but you are posting in a community here that lives it everyday.
Newsflash, you are really BEGGING for similarly patronising rejoinders – as per my last paragraph or two above – if your first posts in THIS particular forum come out telling us all how to suck eggs, metaphysically speaking.
Love your comments on Sagg versus Scorp in general and specifically Fi. Very true!
I didn’t check this post in time to make a well-timed rant of my own, but I don’t need to now, as you’re said a lot of what I would have said!
I’m part of the Pluto in Libra generation, but have always found an easy kinship with the Pluto in Scorpio generation. I went back to school to finish for the sake of advancing my career, but now I’m in the same situation that a lot of new college grads are; educated and experienced, but nonetheless unemployed and now burdened by all the debt that my education has cost me. I would love to give you my earnest help and I’m on my third internship at a non-profit to prove it, but my time and knowledge is valuable and I only wish that someone would recognize that.
Wow. That’s good news about Harry Potter and Twilight being in response to authentic experiences. I told my daughter there was no Santa recently. She seemed to think that means there is no magic. I told her there is magic. And I want her to know about real magic. And she was all like “yeah, yeah, yeah, love. I know. Love is real.” But real magic is about more than just love.
The processed foods complaint – I’m glad you mentioned it. When my Pluto in Scorpio nephew lived with me he was very particular about eating habits. He ate lots of fresh produce, cooked constantly, and liked to share whatever he made. It was really important to him to eat well and he told me about all the crap he ate as a kid with a single Mom. Processed foods. Dinner by TV. Its a small issue, perhaps when – particularly seen in the list you put forth – but I think a valid complaint of your generation. Perhaps you guys will revive food culture. I hope so.
@12thHouseVirgo- Wow, very cool! Im glad she knows that, one of my earliest memories was of a supernatural experience, and it (or I should say He) shaped my life, and helped me become who i am. Magic is most certainly real. If she’s Pluto in Sag, don’t worry-She knows. The Secret isn’t even scratching the surface and this world won’t be enough for her. She will be amazing.
Me too! Eating Paleo saved my life, and everyone should have access to wholesome, nutritious food. The fact that half of this world is starving, while the other half eats nothing but garbage, and all the while our food supply is getting tainted, whether it be GMO crops, hormones in our milk, or heavy metals in our fish is absolutely unacceptable. There has to be better!
Lmao, it is quite list-y, isn’t it? Not what i intended maybe (admittedly, I kind of just let it spill out stream-of-consciousness style) but everything is easier itemized don’t you think?
btw @12thHouseVirgo- I peeked at your website, and wow! Much love! Mind if I add a link to it on mine?
Sure! Glad you like it. That site is new. I’m not sure how much I will update it. I have like five sites and I get sick of talking (believe it or not being as I can’t seem to stop commenting on this post). I like taking photos more than writing these days. Not sure it you’re into flickr, but my stream is http://www.flickr.com/lovehateflow.
Linkety Linked!
oh wow, your blog is really intriguing as well, I’ll be keeping an eye on yours too!
Onwards and forwards!
ps, thank you so much for the poem you shared I really treasured it. reminded my of that Emily Brontë line, “no coward soul is mine.” or another from my favourite of hers “three gods, within this little frame, are warring night and day; heaven could not hold them all, and yet they are all held in me” she was such an 8th house writer.
Awesome, thanks! No problem, I swear if you crack open my chest, you’ll find that poem etched there. Every time things seem a little too dark, it always crops up again to remind me that im still in the game. Wow, I havent read much of her work, but methinks I might just have to go check her out.
holy fuck! your photography is outstanding! screw the nephew who never replied, you’ve got a new fan! absolutely adoring everything.
Ill second that!
@Appleskies – you made my day! Thanks to you, and you too, Frustrated Arian Gemini.
“everything is easier itemized don’t you think?”
LMAO!!! I think that’s Mars in Virgo talking. I’ll take an itemized list over a spreadsheet any day!
Yeah, my Pluto in Sag Aries baby doesn’t doubt magic. I went to a psychic circle thingy once. It was a bad scene – the woman leading it didn’t manage her borders properly – and my house was haunted for weeks after. My girl was 4 or 5 at the time. Anyway, spirits followed me after that circle to my house. It took a few weeks, but I held my ground and they left eventually. Not sure how it worked, but I could feel it. One morning – they were all gone. That morning in the car my girl says to me “The bad spirits went away.” I hadn’t talked to her about anything. She never complained about them. I asked her what she meant and where they went. She just said “I dont’ know” in a tone that implied “why should it matter if they’re gone?” and said “a wind blew them away.” Really, my job is to help her remember what she was born knowing.
She doesn’t negotiate either. She’s constant exploration and expression. She’s going to have her fun.
As a kid I remember tv dinners…I used to wish my Mom was home when I came home from school but she was working as was dad (Pluto in Virgo).
“Integrating the shadow…Achilles heel”…Achilles and Lie are conjunct my Moon with Psyche. I understand.
My youngest is Pluto in Scorpio and she’s currently going to UCLA…you have to be darn smart to get in there and she worked her way thru jr. college to do it. Breaks my heart to think she may not fulfill her dreams the way she is hoping to due to the state of things. Presently, she is living at home with her dad and his wife to do it. She’s 25.
My eldest has a degree in art history and she’s working part time somewhere not even related to her talents. Here in U.S. schools, art is not considered important.
I don’t want to be pessimistic tho….The world is healing. This mess started long, long ago before any of us can even remember…not to invalidate anyone’s feelings or views however.
My Pluto in Scorp friends are much the same concerning food. Many were raised on fast foods or boxed convenience foods. On their own now, even while still in college a lot of them have taken a serious interest in educating themselves about what they eat, where it comes from. They love documentaries about organic food movements, exposing the evils of the fast food industry, and getting to the hidden truths behind all the fancy marketing tactics of that industry. The majority of them are self taught cooks and have taken traditional “standards” and reinvented them in new ways.
I gotta say also that while I haven’t read all the above posts yet, I think people tend to forget that Scorpio and Pluto is all about tearing down and building back up, reinvention and recreation. Those can be ugly processes, full of angst and raw honesty that many would not find compassionate or tolerant. It’s going to step on toes and get under your skin and not be apologetic about hurting your feelings or offending you. But Pluto Scorps will get stuff done in a very focused and intense way, they’ll make a statement and it’ll probably make the rest of the world uncomfortable at first before they realize the deeper truth behind it. Pluto Scorps do not accept the status quo.
Oh, and I love the bit about “exploring alternative sexualities.” I seriously don’t think anyone can appreciate or know the sexual experiences of the Pluto Scorpio generation accept people in that generation. The online world changed the way people hook up in a big way. New bonds formed, new baselines of what “normal” sexuality is. You guys are blazing new ground not only in terms of what is socially acceptable, but what counts as sex, what’s the value of sex, deeper issues like that. You guys are intense.
@12thHouseVirgo- oh yes, you wouldn’t believe it if I told you
very thought-provoking comments FAG & 12th House Virgo
One of the best things about this site is I am learning not only from Mystic and her viewpoint, but also by seeing through the eyes of others via their comments.
I particulary like the rant re junk pre-packaged foods, and the internet groundbreaking sexual vibe of the pluto scorps, as well as taking a stand in your personal truth – too long has this society been spoonfed how to think by the idiot box- the bought and paid for media. It disgusts me.
Pluto trine moon. Highest aspected is Scorp Neptune, crazy for films/books of this genre. Pluto in 8/scorp is like a junkyard dog going at a porterhouse steak, imho. Thanks for the scorpy insights from your perspective.
I dig the vamp/werewolf zombie film tie-ins as well. I’m a 9th house Virgo conj Uran/Pluto (Pluto in
ok merc rx did not insert smiley. read: 8,
“Harry potter and Twilight are popular with us for a very good reason! And you tried to tell us that it was not real. ”
Loved this line for obvious reasons. I realize I don’t watch much aside from supernatural shows (Plutofied moon + Scorpio Pluto in the 10th), or documentaries from the history or Travel channel. hehe Nothing much interests me.
Frustrated Arian Gem I hear what you’re saying and I do understand your rage at being caught in an economic and cultural web not of your own making. However I think perhaps you need to separate the issues out a bit.
Yes economic policy driven by US rationalist economics has created the unsustainable markets and financial collapses we have witnessed over the past few years. Yes these policies have been driven by the greedy, self serving decisions of certain human beings in positions of power and influence.
However other issues such as child abuse and violence speak more about a cultural lifestyle not based in sustainability. The nuclear family for example has proven to actually be quite a dangerous proposition for a lot of people – they don’t tend to last and end up leaving the vulnerable (children) with little to no community support and parents who are really struggling to cope. Congested city based lifestyles often lead people to feel disconnected and overwhelmed – why else the huge explosion of mental health disorders in Western countries?
Our problem is that instead of having a system which serves the people, we the people are there to serve the system. Growth and GDP based economic models as indicators of success are ridiculous. Growth is cyclical and humans are not robots. Sustainability needs to be our measure.
I forgot to mention this before for those interested in the economics and astrology of the current situation – Jessica Murray’s http://www.MotherSky.com website, her book on the US’s astro stuff Soul-Sick Nation are fascinating reading, she’s on Facebook too. Also, a book I found eye-opening about the effects of the outer planets, Pluto, Uranus and Neptune on the collective consciousness, as opposed to the individual consciousness, is Liz Greene’s The Outer Planets and Their Cycles. It was written in 1983, then republished in 2005 with additional notes to give corrections and updates.
I like this. I know that rage. It’s in me too.
Just remember that we aren’t victims. All of our experiences have created who we are and who we needed to be to make these big fuck-off changes that we’re going to make.
Hey, another member of the Plutonic Dummy Spitters’ Club – welcome! I find your post incredibly hateful, actually, so I don’t really think there’s nothing else to say except we’re all human beings, never forget that. When love, compassion and tolerance fly out the window, you’re in deep shit.
@Libraaquarius- Love? We have no idea what that even means! Don’t lecture me about compassion and tolerance, the society that your generation built screams out that i am wrong and immoral for who I fell in love with. I couldn’t graduate from college because I got sick, and almost died because I had no Insurance. You find what I say hateful? Good! Its real, its supposed to be upsetting. I know myself, I dont need your approval, or your forgiveness. Most of your posts on here have been snide and dismissive. Mine was honest, and I spoke my truth. Yes, we are all human beings, and I intend to personally make sure that every single one of us gets treated fairly, with respect, and a guaranteed future.
Practice what you preach
Actually I wasn’t offering to approve of you or forgive you. If you want to stay mired in self-pity, go for it. As for my posts – that’s your opinion only. It doesn’t occur to you that there are very many in my generation who have fought for people to get treated fairly, with respect, and a guaranteed future all of our lives. I’ve attended more demonstrations and rallies than you can poke a stick at. I’ve written for revolutionary newspapers. And we’ve stuck with it, we don’t get publicity, but many, many of us have done the hard yakka of helping to change ideas, to get legislative changes, only we don’t get reported in the media because, hey, who wants to give publicity to revolutionaries, don’t want to let the world know there are people who are fighting the system! We don’t get our names in big print but I’ve just watched two people in their ’50s in the country who’ve handed over big swags of their property for free, one sacrificed their power supply, so that an arid region could be returned to its normal watery environment in order to benefit the ecosystem and birds. And it wasn’t my generation who took part in the racist riots in Cronulla either, or who are staggering around blind drunk in city centres assaulting police and ambulance officers or needing their stomachs pumped to get out the drug or booze overdose. But at least I can recognise that this is a small proportion of the younger generation, I don’t generalise it to all young people who I think are pretty damned cluey and gutsy. It’s bloody easy to spout revolutionary stuff, it’s much harder to stick with it. It’s taken a lifetime to learn about love, compassion and tolerance and I’ll spout it until the day I die, and if you don’t like, stick it up your jaxi, sport. So yes, my comments are honest too, I’ve practised what I preach since my ‘twenties, you don’t know me, so don’t fucking presume to judge me from your ignorant position.
Whatever. Not feeding the trolling
Excuse me? You’ve just behaved as an ace troller and then you accuse someone else of it? I told you the truth and you obviously can’t handle it. Suck it up, princess.
“I told the truth and you obviously cant handle it. suck it up, princess.”
Really?
“youve just behaved as an ace troller and then you accuse someone esle of it?”
REALLY
Do I really have to dissect the rampant hypocrisy in that statement, did you just forget when I was all like checkmate, and STILL this
I am at a loss here, I am reluctant to harbor your logical demise again if you are that incapable of you own actions
REALLY????
ok
I think this is something that’s going to die out with our generation, this assertion of any person holding THE truth. or at least I hope so. because in my day to day life I find it really fucking irritating when someone informs you that they know what’s what and you’re simply misguided and thus redundant. and then expect you to engage and respond to that dialogue.
anyway, if nothing else, I got a good giggle out of this thread
Great minds think alike. I just said that, lol.
Drinks all around!
Hear hear!!
Truth is such an objective thing. Isn’t someone’s opinion their own personal truth? By the way, what happened to love, compassion and tolerance? Oh well, I suppose they’ve been abandoned in favor of name-calling and mudslinging. Why do I feel the need to say “can’t we all just get along?!”? It must be a Pluto in Libra thing.
Lauren – I’m very committed to love, compassion and tolerance but when someone attacks and slanders me, I reserve the right to defend myself. And with Leo in Pluto, and Pluto and Saturn right next to each other in the 10th, I can come out with all guns firing when people attack me.
But that’s just it. I haven’t perceived that anyone IS attacking you. Not you as a person. We’re talking about generations, things that have come to pass under the influence of whole populations, not individual singular people. It’s all very loose, big picture and overall kind of thinking. I wouldn’t take it as a personal attack on you. No one here is saying that you are personally responsible for the angst of the Pluto in Scorpio generation, so to me it seems that you’re being overly sensitive and overreacting against one person who hasn’t even blamed you for anything. You can’t shoulder the responsibility of your entire generation, none of us can.
Lauren – I haven’t taken all of Frustrated Arien Gem’s comments personally. Reread what was written about me personally: “Most of your posts on here have been snide and dismissive”. That’s what I was responding to, but I do feel the need to defend my generation too, not from my perspective but because I know so many good people who don’t deserved to be lumped in with wild generalisations and regarded with contempt. And also there’s a lack of knowing what happened in the past which frustrates me, ignorance about the times and the events and people’s response. But okay, if people agree that my posts have been snide and dismissive, I’ll cease and desist forthwith.
Okay, I cant resist- You can call my post hateful and call me “another member of the Plutonic Dummy Spitters’ Club”, but I cant say that yours are snide and dismissive, when that’s exactly what you did? Huh.
I posited the question to Mystic to discuss what we, Pluto in Scorp, could do, as a generation, to best help to create the best world possible in this time of change and uncertainity, and it has devolved into a wounded warrior pissing contest! Im sorry I even asked, opening up to all this drama. This is the exact opposite of what we need to do; The blame game is so freaking tired and I for one am done with it. Anyone else?
but she didn’t attack you, she ignored you. and then you came back calling names and telling her “you can’t handle the truth!” just because she refused to engage.
Point of clarification, its He
ahahahah, my humble apologies sir.
ps, Aries moons rock!
lmao no worries. Hahaha yeah, theyre pretty sweet.
We did it again!
Goodness, there’s no stopping us! We should be on the stage together!
Oops, Leo and Pluto in the 11th.
It is very like leo – in general to not admit when there wrong.
And its very pluto in leo of you to prop up your generations false kingdom.
Even if you had nothing to do with it. People are still gonna generalize,
I think its great that your so egocentric with it, it is classic.
It would be really haute leo for you to accept the hard fact that it is a majority not the minority who see the gifts bestowed upon your generation were abused by most. It doesnt mean we wont get along, but your generation will not be welcomed till u can have some humility and realize in general its not all about you.
All this love compassion and peace is what pluto leo types want us to think so we dont pull them out of there mansions and put them out in the street instead of the other way around.
Ive had To sit through the stupidest shit since birth, my choice apparently.
But i cant wait for low PinLs to get whats on the way for them. Reality.
Well, look, I think you’re right, als, so tonight, I want to square my conscience and ‘fess up. Yes, I’ve been a low PinL all my life, I’ve been masquerading on MM under a false identity. In reality, I’m not a 64-year-old disability pensioner living in a small house with a 75-year-old husband, totally skint, and with a Subaru we bought with my father’s small inheritance after he died, our first ever upmarket car. No, the reality is that I’m actually a retired investment banker, I used to work at the Macquarie Bank, aka The Millionaire’s Factory, and I have a huge mansion overlooking Sydney Harbour. I have an ocean-going yacht, a Rolls-Royce for formal occasions and a Maserati when I really am just toddling around town (but only in the rich suburbs, have no idea how the plebs live), and I don’t have an older husband, I have a toy boy who is kept in idle luxury by me. Oh, and I have various rental slums where I can rip off the poor and needy. There, I’ve cleared my conscience! I’m feeling very humble and oh so sorry I’ve been propping up my generations’ false kingdom. Oh, and by the way, I have a very warped sense of humour although I realise we PinLs aren’t supposed to have one.
still not admitting to being wrong earlier, just roaring louder and being all pouty over imaginary slights of ego, seems quite leonine to me
originally people where vaguely generalizing without really meaning any real people in particular, if anything they knew exceptions existed, and you only further exacerbate the problem, when confronted with you illogical ways you continue to ignore the fact you are wrong, the only thing humorous about this comment is how apparently witty you think you are, yet unable to call upon this wit and logic to respond to the fact you are being quite illogical. People are allowed to generalize as much as they want, and can exaggerate as much as they want, when people complain in various outlets about kids my age I never once thought to “defend” my generation or list exceptions, its silly. Get over your ego and redundant point, you have been proven wrong, generalizations are allowed, your further immature insistence otherwise is only lending itself to further extreme conflict, and your seeing enemies where there not any, and points that were not originally there, its presumptuous, and the malleable universe will be happy to oblige to this delusion, and your opponents will end up typing things with further exaggeration to something they probably dont think that extremely in all actuality. Get over yourself, you can not defend a generation, you are only defending your view of it, and defending yourself, when you were not the one originally being attacked, stop being silly.
oh come on David5379 … have you bothered to read how the thread panned out? No. Obviously not. Have you bothered to check time dates on posts? Probably not.
Libraquarius is a person with feelings just like you. Cut it out already with the immature comments and so forth. I mean we all built a bridge and got the fuck over it hours ago.
I dont see what you mean by “panned out”, I dont mean nothing happened, I mean I dont know what you are referring to and dont see it. Unfortunately I can not comment to that first effect because I dont know where that is. If you would like to correct me directly please, and I dont mean that with any attitude.
I was not arguing about what was actually being said, but the misuse of logic. Everyone is aloud to generalize, and by generalizing you are going to be a bit wrong, thats a given, its difficult to cover all your bases and to attempt to do so when generalizing would be a bit much. What I have seen is that she continues to antagonize people she disagrees with on an illogical bases. I have not unduly antagonized her and have step by step confronted how unfair she was being (and if we did go back in time I would have to say she was more oblivious of the feelings of others than I am being to any feelings she has, and if her feelings are involved in this clearly illogical display)
If she is bringing emotions here, than that is her own doing, and I have not been unfair in what I have been saying and have crossed no line, but I suppose if my feelings were involved and it was all because I was in a bad mood that would be fine.
If its about considering feelings, I have to say I havent been horrible and disagreeable with any of the people on this post(witch she has), or gone around disregarding there humanity. The only reason I have decided to engage in argument in the first place was because of how much she was unfairly arguing with other people, and how inconsiderate she was being with them.
I have not been immature in anything I have said, and have not even put forth any debatable opinion or questionable action at all. Nor have I been inconsiderate, in fact my actions have been informed by nothing but consideration. I had already let it slide originally, only to see her antagonize new people all over again later, she is quite the repeat offender, and I have a right to question her actions just as much as she has done much more on this very same post. If I have missed something and she has apologized or something, than sorry for missing that, but whatever crime I have committed, do remember she has been a far worse offender earlier, and by my apparently misinformed perception continues to offend. I do not care what she thinks about her generation or what other people think about her generation, I only want her to realize how impossible it is to be completely right
the point is none of us are completely right. Libraquarius is a regular poster on this blog and generally her comments are considered and kind. She was having one of those days dude .. and honestly, considering the topic at hand I’m not surprised that we all got quite lively. You really don’t need to write an essay about it. I reckon we’ve covered it fully yes?
Oh and don’t miss my last norti post – c’mon we have to get this thread to 500!
I know none of us are completely right, I wasnt correcting her, but her inability to see that other people dont have to be completely right, so actually thats all my point ever was. And I very much do have to write an essay about everything, and trust me it wasnt planned or labourous, and was actually quite abridged. She seams to be generally agreeable, and I wasnt picking on those generally agreeable posts but the ones I disagreed with. At first I was angered to no end she did not respond to me only to see she was having a bad day(if thats what you were referring to earlier) only to see her antagonize ariengemini later, so this is more of a reprisal of an earlier argument do to being offended shes at it again. I dont have a problem with her, only with this, so if she drops this, or has dropped it, then I will be as good as disappeared and this can just hang in the air forever…
and about below, I thought you needed help articulating how pluto in scorpio was bad, so I decided to enact revenge in true scopriotic fashion to help out. Deal with my sting! ha
In a cancers watery world of feelings and make believe maybe, there is a right and a wrong though. Let us logic peeps logic, and u feelers make stuff up as u go along, Without generalizations you couldnt do astrology, as david previosly stated.
therefore she is wrong, she is wrong. Period. generalizations are allowed and good for alot of things.
Nice if u wanna make up with her but if someone else is still responding to comments previously posted, unless its your blog let people make there contributions…
Sounds like u both were having the one of those days together to me…
LA, I love your attitude and Libra Aqua values.
Thanks, virgo librarian, very cheering to read your comment, and much appreciated.
Chris Nolan did have the joker say, “Their morals, their code. it’s a bad joke. dropped at the first sign of trouble.”
ultimately, I feel the honest acceptance of personal truths rather than expecting others to embrace yours will foster a more authentic relation to compassion and may be the thing that saves us in the end.
A quote from the Batman movies does seem very apropos of the Pluto in Scorpio era.
Like the frustrated Arien mentioned above, there has been a noticeable resurgence of all things supernatural…vampires, werewolves, magic and I think that would include all the remakes of comic book superheros and villains.
You’re right – Dexter, True Blood, The Walking Dead, American Horror Story… All bloody brilliant tv series.
Yes, Dexter especially, which has been met with so much controversy, raising all sorts of ethical issues about what you can and can’t show on television.
And I don’t know any Scorpios or Scorpio types who can pass up a good zombie show. The undead have a strange hold on us.
yeah, my Scorpio (Pluto in Scorp) friend and I bonded over our love of horror.
I found the Dark Knight to essentially represent the entire philosophy of the Pluto Scorp generation, it was rather….fulfilling the first time I saw it. just as you have suggested it’s very appropriate.
I’m really excited to see how the supernatural is represented during the Neptune in Pisces era, as a Pisces rising, I’m more than ready
it’s going to be very intriguing to watch the shift. also, I think the huge success of girl with the dragon tattoo series is in large debt to Pluto Scorp readers. Lisbeth is so much our kind of character. I expect all heavy Scorps felt her too, actually.
Somehow I missed reading that book! I had heard about it of course and knew something of the story, but never found out enough to get sucked into reading it. But just yesterday I saw the trailer for the movie and now…oooh yes! Need to see it and definitely read the book too! I’ll probably read the book first and see the movie when the hype has died down. I never tend to get interested in what’s popular when it’s popular. If it seems like a trend then I usually steer clear at first. I read Lord of the Rings for the first time this past summer. Again, for some reason I had never been interested until after all the movies were released, lol. But considering it’s now a “classic” I figured it was about time to get to it.
I’m usually the same way! this was the one occasion I decided to check out something while it’s popular. Friends who have read it have reached the conclusion whic I share, that it will most likely make a better movie than book. (the Swedish film adaptations were already pretty great). the story, rather than the writer is what carries it. Larsson is very Scandinavian in his writing style, one event after another without creating a romantic emotional significance to any of it. as someone with surging and storming emotions going on all the time, it was easy for me to fill in what he left out. my own emotional current made it impossible for me to put down. but Larsson writes rather coldly and so it feels the story will truly shine on the big screen in a way it couldn’t within the book. as already hinted by the trailers. just thought I’d give the heads up as quite a few friends were disappointed with the books because they were expecting a different writing style.
ahaha, lord of the rings is a Christmas tradition around here!
Have you seen or read “Let the Right One In”? It’s a vampire movie based on a Swedish book about a young boy who is a social outcast, who forms a friendship with a young vampire girl. It was made into a Swedish film and American version called “Let Me In”. I have yet to see the Swedish one, but the American version is really good. Very dark and gory, but incredibly heart wrenching and tender.
Thats something i can agree with you on, that movie was amazing. And i hate most movies, that one had silences with video moment of say a tree swaying in the breeze lettig your mind make up the rest of the plot. If im not mistaken it didnt have aoverblown orchestra playing throughout. Really nice. If hollywood would be that creative more often id pay for the movies more ofen. Still sans the toxic food though..,
Glad we can agree on something then.
I loved how the ending was never really explained. It just happened and you knew the outcome, but it didn’t have to be neatly tied up and the issues didn’t have to be resolved just because the movie was over. Vampire movies run the risk of becoming stale because their plots are usually so predictable, but this one approached it from a different point of view.
That movie easily took me somewhere I knew I had been before but had forgotten about. Perfection in 24 frames-per-second. Sooo pluto in scorp yah?
I saw the Swedish one. The director’s new film with Gary Oldman looks very interesting (it’s Gary oldman, I’d be there anyway). I’ve heard every subtle facial expression is a clue, a film entirely focused on what’s not being said. Which, one could say, was a theme in his version of Let The Right One In. I’ll have to look into the American one!
Much to my surprise I loved “Let Me In” … I was expecting some kind of stupid gore fest. But it was a lovely movie, touching, poignant. It had a heart.
Can’t say I enjoyed reading Larsson – could be a translation issue but the text seemed dumbed down, clumsily launching from one scene to another, like a Dan Brown novel. However I really enjoyed the first movie – Girl with a Dragon Tattoo. Completely ridiculous in terms of her hacking ability and exploits but my god did I have a laugh at “that scene” ….
Wow, just noticed that Sun/Mercury are in ‘sayin’ like it is Saggi’ and the Moon is in feisty Aries. Meanwhile Mars in Virgo is really pernickety, as I have it natally, I know.
A perfect time to have it out over Pluto, dont you think?
Hey y’all, would be impossible to not comment although I’ve been exceptional in reigning in the Sadge. I’ll go back to my earlier comment that it made me a little sad (not anyone in particular and def not you specifically LA
and would be unfortunate to see you cease and desist).
Objectively.. there were times when the higher, more general thread lost it in favour of closer to home personal comments and that’s cool too. So we’re living the human experience.. it ain’t always gonna be perfect and sh!t happens and passions can flare.
No generation has been amazingly on the mark and got it all right but good has come from all generations. We can’t no more assume that Gen Y will get it all right and change it all than we can blame the Boomers for fuqing it all up.And us X-ers are still finding our way in it all and life didn’t deliver in some respects.. so there’s occassional disillusion but also the scope to create something better and I never give up on that no matter how small the perceived part is that I play. That isn’t because I’m X, that’s because I’m me.
Generations don’t make change of that magnitude despite significant landmarks in their time. They are all stepping stones to greater change which can take decades well past any particular generation to see the significance.
What we have is all of us across multiple generations paving a way today and that’s where the greatest difference can be made. Those from each generation (and we can reasonably assume there will be some passive disinterest or flagrant capitolism amongst other things in all) can make change and the experience, wisdom and passion OF EACH is needed to do so.
I’m all for antiquated structures being pulled down but I’m also in favour of keeping things that were good.
I respect all the relative comments from all generations. Insightful, thought provoking, wry and riled (lol).
Namaste
Namaste y’all, I keep thinking of that quote, “The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there” when I think back even a decade. Everything is feeling different these days. The Pluto in Leo people feel different too.
Then there are these angelic youth who don’t cope in every generation, they just drink themselves into the abyss, they pass away from the heaviness of this material vibration.
Do Pluto in Scorpio think that we can stop learning through suffering and start learning through joy? That would be a neat trick.
I believe there are Pluto in Scorps who are phoenixing into the next world, work unfinished.
There are others who just by being their beautiful selves and glowing are doing their work.
Also I know of others who are beginning to take their deep spiritual consciousness and spread it round the world, seeding hope and hopefully bringing new inventions that will provide free energy and disable the Banksters/Pharma/Energy Group that have us in their thrall – that power group who seem as old as Pluto and just as capable of reinvention in every generation as Madonna.
Occupy Wall Street doesn’t have to be more than Occupy Wall Street for the same reasons that Hope doesn’t have to be more than Hope. Just Being, just glowing with the confidence of Justice and holding the Light for others so see and be inspired is plenty.
Scorpio doesn’t want to know in my experience – it does know or it doesn’t know. One or the other. When it does know it is sublime, isn’t it?
I hear you whatevs, but I ALSO have Moon in SCORPIO
!!! Hahaha!
Pluto in Scorpio – mmm vibes so samurai and I love that. But the other side of Darth Vader is Obi Wan, no? Scorpio people channel your power!! Rage is energy. But there is no excuse for destructive energy, it’s just lack of awareness, lack of discipline, lack of mastery. Wacky supernatural? Big deal, most everyone has been there, it’s pissant low vibration.
Get connected to The Source of all Light and all Love and then you will be the generation to be reckoned with – Eagles that soar to great heights and pull the Earth up to the next vibration! That is your real job.
alright think we’ll reach the 400-comment line?
i love how, when everyone’s grouping up on one biiiig comment thread here MM stops posting lots of posts like she usually does so as not to distract us.
lol no i am busy doing Horoscopes ahead so i can have hols over xmas!
This topic would have to be the second most popular after the creepy spiritual internet dude looking for a goddess post
A little offtopic but one thing I hope either the current pluto in Cap transit or the Scorpio Pluto generation completely destroys and rebuilds: the way aid is given to developing countries. Why? Because its exactly what is *keeping* them developing countries (and the 2% holding all the wealth know that). Bigger governments and corporations just throwing money at these smaller countries instead of doing more sensble things like rebuilding infrastructure and organization keeps these countries dependent on the West, keeps their corrupt leaders in power, and keeps the gap between the rich and poor wider. Its just sooooo soooo wrong. I get having to give immediate aid in emergencies, and I’m pretty much excluding non-profit organizations from this because I lump all of those together, but hand UP instead of hand OUTS. Of course the people at the top know this, but choose not to change for their own benefit!
*I can’t lump all of those together
OK – I’m losing track of threads here, but @Sourpatch – yes! We need to stop giving out handouts. And I say that after years of optimistically working with nonprofits and international government agencies like USAID and State Department. For others who want a glimpse into how it works, here’s one of my favorite blog posts ever. Written in 2007, ts about the World Bank. http://mycastleinspain.blogspot.com/2007/06/world-bank-killed-me.html
Also, I say hi to all my new Pluto in Scorpio friends. Its been great to hear from you guys and the discussion here has helped me understand the tone of your generation much better. Thanks for that. And if all you guys ever change is the food issue – if all you ever do is eat fresh, local produce and serve the same to your families – you WILL have totally completely CHANGED THE WORLD!
I was fretting over Uranus going direct in Aries a few weeks ago. Now I am excited. I’m looking forward to seeing the changes manifest because they are so clearly present in spirit.
Namaste to all
I seriously can’t stop commenting on this blog. But I am so happy imagining what a Pluto in Scorpio commune may look like. I suspect that generation will have communes and they will be either rural or urban – no middle ground for that group. And they will be SO different from the commune model set-up in the 60s. It won’t be about “lifeSTYLE” for that group, but deeply about LIFE and making LIFE work for all.
And then Pluto in Sag, my girl’s gen, after? They will have distance from the Pluto in Leo gen that none of us online now have. And they will laugh at Scorpio intensity and they will shun security fears (I know that’s odd to say since our world is insecure) but I see that generation getting that we are here to enjoy this beautiful planet we are on and that our planet is freely ours to enjoy (respectfully, playfully). We are not here to be secure.
I have visions of my girl being a nouveau hippie chic. And I see that Pluto in Scorpio will pave the way for her being. I see that I Pluto in Libra pave the way for her being, as other did before me. Its beautiful, really. I’m thankful to be a witness to our times.
If you haven’t, read Peter Coyote (of the San Fran Diggers fame) for insightful 60′s communes commentary.
I would say the communication eclipse is in full swing here at Mystics X
Thank you for the link 12H Virgo. Habib Koite (Mali) speaks of this heartbreaking tragedy to his audiences and encourages world practice of fair trade. The stories he shares are heartbreaking of families trying to compete with imports, food that as evidenced by your link, is far inferior.
Shipping food in this manner is quite frankly, counterproductive and the epitome of stupid, and people and animals across the world suffer while fatcats prosper.
USA is chained to oil in great part to move produce and goods from other countries/ areas across our lands. I am also a Virgo and garden and preserve all I can, save H20 and electric as much as possible, always looking for ways to be less of an impact on the environment.
Yeah, it was painful to come into the awareness that our “help” in the US, developed-nations perspective – isn’t helpful at all. I’ve worked with lots of good people in nonprofits and government who are sincerely motivated to try to change things for the better, to try to solve the problem, but the way the problem and solution are defined IS the problem. I’m such a fan of Peace Corps and USAID and the Marshall Plan and the idea that we can make the world more fair for all through good programming. But experience has shown me that you make the world more fair by how you live, not by pushing resources/funds artificially, not by “desigining” your own program, but by living your own values.
The fact that people in Africa are shipped our wasted food and farmers can’t compete because of it makes me sick and is why, generally, I no longer bother to read the news. I can’t stop it. But what can I stop? I focus locally. I focus on myself. We all have that power. By changing our own behavior, we DO change the world. It IS optimistic. But it IS that simple.
The good news to me is that current generations have motive, will, and passion to NOT participate or fall for the economic sham. I did. I thought being “helpful” in the way my culture defined “help” was worthwhile. It hurt to realize that isn’t true. But I am happy to have the clarity I do now. I am happy to share what I have learned with others if it helps them be clear too. The truth is never as painful as the lie.
Thank you soooo much for the article! Like the writer, I also appreciate my First World luxuries but being from an East African origins burdens me with not being able to be ignorant of how the world works. Although this went into mooore depth than I did, It pretty much highlights 90% of what I think is wrong with “aid”. The people who need the help never see it anyways with the way “aid” is conducted….its mostly pocketed by their corrupt leaders who these corporations are pretty much in bed with. Its all Neo-Colonialism at its finest. Forget Occupying Wall Street, I’d like to #Occupy the World Bank or the Diamond Industry…..all pieceofsh#t organizations.
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Pluto in Scorpio current house guest is a particle scientist…Next year he will study a phd in vacuum technology (making the air pure for particle experiments) and cryogenics (freezing particles to slow them down for experiments)…He is a real genius, and i have great respect for him because he has made an incredible career and life for himself already.
Not only is he v.v.smartypants, but he is emotionally intelligent as well, which really amazes me, that he has both sides of the brain kinda developed to the ‘enth degree. He is currently reading a book about how physics relates to eastern mysticism…and seems to be easily able to respect science and mysticism both.
He sounds cool! What sign is he?
ok GUESSING GAME gem, scorp, aqua…..or any other sign but really evolved
He’s a haute Aries, sun conj moon in 7th with Merc in Taurus in 7th, he’s got the beautiful Libra Asc with Pluto in 1st.
He’s got some serious – close to 1 deg, Uranian rays and nice Venusian rays going on too.
Uranus in Saggi in 3rd and Neptune in Cap in 3rd, node in Gem in 9th.
I know his parents 20+ years, they are amazing peeps too, like high functioning successful euro hippies, they travelled a lot as a family, really cool and super brave, smart amazing genius mother, and his dad was a natural artisan at everything artistic/musical.
Let me say that the comments in this post have been an amazingly interesting and enlightening read, despite all the generational bashing and Mercury Retro woes. You are an amazing lot, let me tell you!
I’m Pluto in Scorpio, Uranus-Neptune in Cap Conjunction type. I can only speak for myself and the Pluto in Scorps I know, and my social and economical context is probably different from the most of you – I’m Portuguese, not a victim of the divorce epidemic, daughter of a deeply Uranian man with a penchant for healthy eating and generally speaking very fortunate (albeit not wealthy) young woman. So take it with the appropriate grain of salt.
What I see and feel in myself and my peers is this general state of anger towards the way things are right now. We’ve grown up watching the terrible consequences of the recklessness of the past, and are stuck with dealing with it, want it or not, for the sake of our and our kid’s survival. You must agree it’s overwhelming, and I believe that’s the reason we’re angry. Seeing it exposed online and being fortunate enough to access the depth of the problem in its entirety is both our blessing and our curse.
I’ve been angry, I’ve felt guilty about being privileged, I’ve cried, and only now I’ve started planning towards acting. And yes, I won’t act until I have a plan and enough power (whether by working withing the system to gather it, or by joining with enough people who share my ideals) to bring it to good terms. I don’t believe in rallying – just speaking loudly and complaining will not solve this, it’s too deep and I’ve seen it fail countless times throughout my short life – planning, working hard, discussing and working together towards solutions presents itself as a better solution to me. For me it’s all or nothing, go big or go home, and I’m not even a strong Scorpionic/8th house type.
We believe in change, but won’t do it blindly (maybe our Pluto in Sagg successors are more capable of that – they annoy me to pieces, but I recognize their awesome potential). We appear smug and distant only because we possess in ourselves both contradictory feelings (fueled by a society that doesn’t stop telling us BUY THIS! YOU NEED THIS TO BE THE BETTER VERSION OF YOU! since we’re children) and an extremely strong desire of projecting only the truest (or best) expression of who we are – and it’s better to say nothing at all than to risk being misinterpreted.
I could go on and on (and I’d love to discuss this subject further), but I’m afraid to bore you.
Us Y’ers are hard to deal with, and a little individualistic in our pursuits, but cut us some slack… We’ll be here to deal with all this crap when you’re dead (if we’re lucky enough not to die first
). Jokes aside: deep down, we are all one, and we need to stick together to bring appropriate change. We just need to find a way to play up the strengths of each individual generation. May Mercury help us!
Well I relate to this totally and I am Gen X. But what a beautiful soul you are!
Like your avatar, Andromeda, it’s Magritte, isn’t it? I saw some of his art at either the National or Tate Galleries in London when I lived there yonks ago and really loved his art.
Yes it is Magritte, it is a castle in the sky! I’ve a penchant for heaviness (2nd house sun, 6th house moon) contrasting with light (gem Asc), so find his work really juicy too!
Another X weighing in .. dig the wisdom in your post
really admire and respect gen y…it is an awesome gen in my x gen view…to me it seems they are seriously doing/being/thinking/feeling so much more than what i could have imagined when i was say a teen or young woman, there is it seems to me a great deal that is not only intelligent, soul wise but genius practical about them truly solving serious probs in this world…
Cardinal – you sound a beautiful, wise and admirable example, Go You !!!
Thank you!
I think we have grit, and we’re definitely intense. My Pluto in Leo mother always says: “I don’t get you and your friends. You take everything so seriously, so emotionally… Lighten up!”. Hopefully we’ll grow into a clear and sharp intensity, instead of this deep emotional turmoil disguised by a smug exterior. But I do find most of my parents’ friends excessively uninterested towards world problems, to a degree I find hard to tolerate… We really need a Pluto in Libra translator to help us, because I find their perspective as baffling as they probably find mine.
Thank you so much! Your comments throughout this thread have been wonderful.
Great name, by the way… I love Greek mythology. Did you choose it for a particular reason?
Thank you! Well she is part of the Medusa myth, I loved a painting where she was sexily chained to a rock once (Venus conjunct Saturn!) and I had a dream about the galaxy, but later I realised I was dreaming about Arcturus.. Oh well.
That is very Venus conjunct Saturn indeed! And props for choosing a Medusa myth for our dear Medusa’s site
I actually love Andromeda’s story, being chained to a rock as a punishment for her mother’s bragging of her beauty, being saved by a hero, etc. Even though my feminist self hates the obvious damsel-in-distress scenario, I can’t help but find it beautiful (the painting helps, though).
Magritte’s art is fantastic, and his life story is so fascinating and daunting… Checked his astro, he’s a late Scorpio Sun with a Pisces Moon. Makes so much sense to me…
I’m gonna post this just to be see if I can be post #400.
Yay!
Wow, this is fascinating. I think only the Find My Goddess Guy post surpassed this number of comments.
someone above said what about Pluto in Sagg and that’s clearly fodder for a future post BUT i just wanna say that LFMAO is the quintessential Pluto in Sagg group
Watch the vid for Sexy and I Know It to see totally what i mean.
BAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA …. soo Sagg!!
YES! And there is no comeback for this? All the haters who must have been directing bad energy at the guys for their success must be with mouths open… Verrrry Saggi! Loveable.
Lol! U are totally onto it. My 11 y old son (Pluto in Sag) has perfected the shuffle dance to Party Rock Anthem, apparently it gave him cool cred at school this year. He went to his first ever dance earlier this year and when I asked him “so did you dance with any girls, and how many” he was
“of, course, more than 16 and most of them asked me”. What I’d give to be a fly on the wall of my Leo Sun/Aries Moon/Virgo riser’s next dance…
(He’s gonna love Bondi!)
He sounds like a total professional Pluto in Saggi! Kudos, love it!
Love it..Bondi Beach this summer..Yahoo !!
I will be in Sydney for 5 days over New Year – staying on the harbour with fabulous views of Harbour Bridge, Opera House and Luna Park. We’ll have to include a visit to Bondi, kids will love it for sure
Hope you have a ball FF x just catch the 380 from circular quay, takes you all the way to BB and you’ll catch some interesting parts of Sydney on the way.
Thanks! Not driving so will be relying on ferries and now the buses, cool. I love Sydney and the last time we took the kids they were too small to remember.
http://icebergs.com.au/
Hi Fluid,
The bistro is really reasonably plriced, and kids welcomed (i’m pretty sure) ..(Bondi) … Have the bestest time !
Yep, kids on the menu…
Aaww, feeling so welcome, thanks Goldfleece – we’ll be there for sure
YES! Was feeling a little down till I saw this! Love it.
Cheers for that Mystic———- this is freakingg ridonculous!!!!!
We dance to this one in Zumba classes. Lots of fun
Probably this thread is dead already, but being a late bloomer, thought I would add this: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_(book) This amaaazing book analyses the generations and how they interact. They term Pluto in Scorp ‘millenials’ and say they are real team players, adhere to the hero archetype and depend on and trust in institutions (unlike gen x who only trust themselves). They say the boomers love to scrap but in fact the millenials prefer peace at any cost? It’s very fascinating, I would like to know how truthfully it plays out in reality over time.
.
Actually my cute husband sent economist Martin Armstrong a copy when he was in jail, in case he needed a good book,
This book also says that Pluto in Scorpio Gen are the Advertising peeps dream generation, they are brand loyal (unlike Gen X). It seems they are really Darth Vader’s minions afterall, submissive, unquestioning and trusting of Big Brother. I am deeply shocked!!
All this talk of Pluto in Scorpio being the ones to remove the shackles of previous generations… we’ll have to wait for Pluto in Saggi?!
I think its impossible not to take a cynical view of ourselves and each other when we allow our framework to be defined by materialist, marketing thinking.
For example, I read about a study that shows Gen Xers rely on search whereas Gen Yers rely on social networks to help them make a product choice. The idea is that if you want to sell to Gen X, you give them helpful information. If you want to sell to Gen Y, you get their friends to talk about it.
The idea, framed by marketing language, is that Gen Y are a bunch of followers, yeah? I mean, who wouldn’t want useful information?!
Yet, framed another way, it shows that Gen Y cares more about community identity than individualism. And that’s something I feel our species needs to return to – shared resources.
But the “trust in institutions” bit is what really concerns me. When I worked with Gen Yers, I was amazed by their expectations. They thought the government knew what it was doing – we are the USA after all – certainly we have all the latest and greatest gadgets at work for our governement! The truth is, we are still locked in stove-piped, paper-based institutions where the right hand doesn’t know what the left is doing. They may want to trust institions, but they are rapidly finding out that’s impossible now.
You make a good point about how we frame ourselves and according to whom. It is natural for the young to trust too.
The concept of the book though is future reading based on the past. We are all part of inexorable tidal cycles also each generation is a reaction to the one that raised them and much more…
“Generations” describes a cyclical theory of history based on repeating generational archetypes. It examines Anglo-American history by dividing it into saecula, or seasonal cycles of history. A saeculum is about 90 years long – the length of a long human life – and is further divided into four “Turnings” that are about 22 years long – as long as the period between birth and adulthood. Children raised during a particular Turning share similar historical and cultural experiences, resulting in distinct generational types. The book suggests that interactions between generations explains why major crises occur roughly every 90 years (e.g. 1773 – 1861) and why spiritual awakenings similarly recur halfway between those crises”
Anyway, there is more floating around on the net about it, but like the Mayan calendar I would imagine it would make more sense if it had an accelerated cycle these days! Still it breaks history down into bite sized pieces and makes view it differently so wrong or right I enjoy using it as a lens on occasion.
Sounds interesting…I’m a fan of viewing things cyclically.
A thread is never dead, you know how many great things ive learned from aged internet eteher” posts… This one will live on and many astrology peeps will come to see what the 400+ post warrented. It was a great and pretty corgial debate, of course only mystic could bring together so many people with her amazing site, without her it would have not happend.
A thread is never dead, you know how many great things ive learned from aged internet ether posts… This one will live on and many astrology peeps will come to see what the 400+ post warrented. It was a great and pretty corgial debate, of course only mystic could bring together so many people with her amazing site without her and arien gems nice question running into a weekend many had free it would not have happend. Obviously generational responsability needed a good heartfealt visit..
You hear that, Mystic? You are never allowed to go offline. I hope you have a plan for keeping your blog content available for ever and ever and ever
Yes sweetie, it’s called subscribers! So please subscribe if you don’t or tell your friends lol.
As actually, seriously, i now have so much content on here and growing traffic, i need a massive big server so a certain amount of subscribers are a necessity to keep this site up!
Sorry merc retro made me post twice, after i tried to correct some of my terrible spelling..
That’s okay, it’s good to know that great threads don’t die, they live on forever in the ethernet. I love a good “corgial debate”, so does the Queen I take it.
your gravatar inspired me to check out magritte again – see latest post – thanks x
Holy crap, this blog post is EPIC!! I missed this, not even going to try and read through, haha well done people 450+ comments!
let’s get to 500 coz some of the kidlets appear to need a good slap!
ooh I’m norti.
Ok you poncy Pluto in Libra’s … tell me ONE GOOD THING that has come out of your generation? Come on. ONE. Nothing that’s what. You’re all too busy straightening your bloody hair, inventing no stick lip gloss and listening to the most godawful music ever invented. Lady Gargoyle? Gimme a freakin break. At least Gen X had grunge. Kurt Cobain, Chilli Peppers et al. We brought back vocals and you lot cheered to vocalisers? Good grief. Hello who invented the internet and Facebook? bazzinga! … well it wasn’t you lot.
Quite frankly I wouldn’t trust you to organise an orgy let alone government and business policy.
And as for Pluto in Scorpio? Geez talk about faux sense of entitlement and bitterness. Who wiped your grotty little arse? Gen X that’s who. Whilst we suffered the recession that we had to have we breastfed you, didn’t smack you, made you wear sunscreen and those horrible all body swim suits and sun safe caps so you wouldn’t get a malignant malinoma later in life, let you hang out with our friends???? And this is the attitude we get? All you’ve come up with so far is vampires and torture porn. Prove me wrong that any of you actually have a semblance of a brain.
wow, I just finished defending how considerate I am of feelings, how funny. You do know a lot of pluto in scorps are still kids right, Im a damn freshman in college, maybe if I bother you as much libraquarius did you will stop making fun of my generation too. Ya know thats a good idea maybe I will just list all the ways you are wrong and talk about how much my friends and me arent like that,
any generation can feel entitled, this is probably more of a young people thing, so forgive my generation for not worshiping there parents for being parents. remember the pluto in leos yelled trust no one over 30? ya, never heard anyone in my generation take that attitude seriously. Torture porn doesnt seam like a generation thing, and twilight was written by a pluto in libra. you have failed to actually describe any qualities at all, generations can be bad, but at least know what that is, do you have a semblance of a brain? Or maybe your just not funny
-A very sarcastic rebuffed and out for revenge pluto in scorpio response
David I had my tongue in cheek – come on the Pluto in Leo’s had to cop it right?
Whew! You scared me with your mad logic on that last post. Just got the tongue in cheek bit. Well, glad to have dished it out for the Pluto in Virgos too – being a Virgo/Virgo rising myself.
And, between me and you, I like being called “poncy.” Never happens to me in real life.
I had my stinger in cheek, cant you see the multiple layers of revenge, you obviously needed help
good call!
Weird. Gen X is defined as post-war generally born 65-80, so that’s a mix of Pluto in Libra and Pluto in Virgo.
But whatever. Pluto in Virgos – you can take Gen X if you’d like.
No generation or person defines themselves or what they are worth. They are it. Defining the impact of that is the job of others (bosses, partners, future generations). But, for better or worse, we have a generation of Pluto in Virgos around to make sure to judge the meaningfulness of everything and everyone while patting themselves on their flannel-clad backs. I’m sure Pluto in Virog will always find others lacking their great sense of servitude to greater humanity. Boo fucking hoo.
No way! We’re far too busy getting wasted or sitting around in rehab.
I love it. I think we should solidify all the generational stereotypes uncovered here in pictorial form like the “Heavy Metal Zodiac”
Some ideas:
Pluto in Leo – old hippy meditating on the interconnectedness of all beings while wearing a Gucci kaftan in the confines of their maximum security mcmansion
Pluto in Virgo – pale approval-seeking academic scowling over being the “lost generation”
Pluto in Libra – give them lip gloss, straight hair, and a bunch of conflict protest signs because they lack the spine to stand for any single issue.
Pluto in Scorpio – a bunch on whiny, misunderstood, vampire wannabes
Pluto in Sagittarius – shit. all I can picture is a finger painting because that’s how all over the place (and young) that group is. Perhaps finger painting at a nudist colony in some dreary suburban nature scene.
meant to write “conflicting protest signs,” not “conflict protest signs.”
Good one, 12th house Virgo, time for some humour, eh?
Thanks to prowlncrab for reminder.
LOL … I want that t-shirt!!
Snicker, snicker, prowlcrab
Aside from a sense of balance, i like some of LG’s lyrics but over house tracks with minimal vocals, we didnt invent that music. The industry left over from the corporate push is still influencing the way people make and do things….
Facebook, not on it. Myspace never used it. Since I hate most ads. We can organize government and were reshaping it now, we have a sense of fairness and equality, and are friends with enough pluto in virgos to work together to get le job done together.
Im all dance and progressive house music i dont know if that is pluto in libra though, i need to look at that. I understood and felt a few rock/guitar songs, but other than that it seems to grow old to me quick, im pretty abstract though, and aquarius would rule electronic music so i know im where i belong..
I think house is the music of the future, just hasnt caught on to all the love bird song people yet. Its intense and more about the sound than the vocals. And blending together a uninterupted set. You have to not have a short attention span and an open mind..
I like LG’s message, just not her music. As for what she’s done in her view of human sexuality – I think its great. I think (and people get pissy when I say it but) the true sexual nature of humans is bi-sexual. Human sexuality bonds groups. It isn’t just a tool for reproduction and motivating people into living/dying for a single family home. That’s not natural, that’s centuries of social conditioning. Human sexual freedom is a subtext to the whole economic fuqery – our human resources are used as tools by the economy – sexuality included. I long for the day when checking a box to say you are gay or straight is as relevant and reasonable in determining someone’s identity as checking a box to say you like apples or broccoli.
But you still all suck for listening to Lady Gagag! ;P
People listen to her?
Can we just make sure that we’re all clear on one very important thing (I’m still not going back to read the whole 5 million words up there), Lady Gaga is strictly and I repeat STRICTLY Pluto in Scorpio (1986 baby) and they are quite welcome to her
Hugs, Charley, great comment! Glad someone else agrees.
Hey shes changed alot of peoples minds for us gays so leave her alone, i cant stand the way born this way sounds too cheesy for me, but glad its changing peoples minds for the better.
If we want more comments, I would like to ask what you guys think about neptune uranus in capy, I have such a hard time understanding what that means.
I hope Neptune in Capy means dreaming up a new government, cause I want a new one.
Are you saying Neptune is conjunct Uranus (as I understand, with 8 to 10 degrees of each other) or just that both are in Capricorn?
I mean the conjunction, the one that was exact in 93, mainly because I was born in 93
Too serious?
hmmm, are you being sassy?
there I made a lame joke, I hope your happy
maybe its like we just like to pretend and see ourselves as responsible and practical, neptune wise
Let me try my amateur astrologer hat on here: Neptune & Uranus are outter planets. That means they apply to the collective consciousness. What was going on collectively at that time – in the act of looking backwards – is projection. It has a cultural bias, naturally. In my cultural lens, it was the year Bill Clinton was innagurated. The Internet still wasn’t widely adopted from a user point and business was struggling to make a model (ie profit) off what it could be. I had just graduate high school, and everyone was telling Gen Xers that they were slackers who’d never have jobs. In that decade, the Internet business model went both boom and bust. Neptune/Uranus in Capricorn.
For you personally, I think it depends which house of your chart that energy manifests in. That may tell more of a story of how it applies to you.
Shit, really, looking back, I went from an English Lit major who everyone asked “What are you gonna do, teach?” to making so much money my Pluto-in-Cancer Dad told me not to lie about my qualifications. It was a booming job market – unprecedented – a new digital frontier to conquer. My salary doubled from one job to the next. Then it tanked because it was stupid and dreamy and imagined all kinds of business scenarios that didn’t pan out. By 2000, it was unemployed. Changed industries. The web industry – at least the agency model and a lot of business – tanked. And the salaries plateaued. And now, their slidding backwards. But its still an unconquered frontier. You guys are the visionaries, the first to grow up in the digital experience.
We talk about the banking industry now, but what dark forces are ruling information policy and building the networks and connections and controling them as we discuss now? What policies should be in place and which shouldn’t? At some point, we are going to have to draft some information policy – where’s the line between a public and private self? Is there one? Should there be? Do we value privacy? Or is it that we need context – to be judged in appropriate context? No one is ready to talk about it yet on a policy level. It hurts their heads and the push it off, in the future. Hopefully, you guys are wired better.
Ranting to myself here – excuse me – but for the young ones, check out the documentary Startup.com (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0256408/)
We STILL haven’t figured out how to run our government using new technology. We haven’t realized much of the potential yet.
Our government! Wow, I was under the impression the government belonged to the Banksters. The more new technology they are using the more I want to go to ground..
Re privacy, I do struggle to retain it, though am sure I talk enough here. I looked at your beautiful photos btw, I don’t think I am brave enough to expose myself the way you do. Why do you do it? Very curious and amazed by it!
Thanks for the looking and the asking. I starting taking self portraits after I got divorced and realized I wasn’t in the family photos. It was like I didn’t exist. And then I had a spiritual awakening type hellish experience where I wondered what I was. I’d take photos to find out. It all seemed absurd and I thought people in white coats would come to take me away. But they didn’t. And, who knew, I am terminally sane.
It could be a longer story. The first nude photos I did I took outside after meditating, conversing with the Universe, asking why I couldn’t be natural like a firefly or squirrel. And the Universe was like”what do you mean be natural?” And I said “Like get naked outside and be safe.” So the Universe said “Do it.” So, I did. And I was safe. And then, it became a running joke I have with myself. Now, it gets boring to be naked so I want to do more with fashion. But, then again, I don’t give a shit. As soon as I give a shit, its ego and most of the photos were taken as part of my ego death. Its not like I like them, just they are. Not sure that makes sense.
Yes, it makes sense to me. More than I expected that it would! Thanks. I like that your exposure was a way of confronting your fear, I relate to that very strongly.
At the moment I am beginning to advertise my SELF as an alt healer. Taking a photo, putting it next to a name, on the internet, saying, “I do this”. I actually feel completely nauseous. I probably should look into it, lol!
It is part of a fear awareness of being located/found out/pinned down. I daresay given most alternative healers in past lives have been tortured for their work at some point, it is natural to fear being known in this context.
Actually refused to be in any pictures for …14 years or so. Especially after I heard the Aborigines saying that your image contains elements of you that can misused by others, more at sensitive times like when you are transitioning from one realm to another, but nonetheless, it kept me from getting snap happy.
Still, linking my name and image on the internet is a massive step for me, i think I might have chat with the Universe too.. Glad to hear you terminally sane afterall
Xx.
Thanks, andromeda. It is scary to come out and say this is what I am. I imagine that’s an real anxiety marketing as an alternative healer too. For most of recent history, you could get hangged in the town square for that sort of thing. But, even though the USA has loads of problems, we don’t have many town squares or public executions these days. So, I’ve decided to live freely and see what comes of that. I have my girl, my dog, my life. For a woman, in a historical perspective, that level of independence is rare. And I’m grateful. But, yeah, overcoming all the fear and anxious social programming around that is tough work. My hope is that by sharing my photos, I can remind others that we are all afraid and strength comes with unapologetic vulnerability.
Good luck establishing your practice! Heal on!
I lived in a small, rural town with mega-numbers of fundamentalist churches, who would have been very happy to put me on a bonfire on the roundabout at the top of the High Street. They prayed for alternative healers and practitioners of all sorts to die. I’ve mentioned it before but during an arts festival I was asked to be the Fortune Teller in a big tent (hate that phrase but I thought, what the heck, bore it up ‘em, kid), and had a great night next door to the Jehovah’s Witnesses who were beside themselves and told everyone I was the Devil’s Apprentice practising black magic in the tent. Had a ball – flat out all night and the interesting thing was that heaps of people in spirit came through with messages for people getting readings (first time for me, first time for everything, I guess), as if they were queued up to finally be able to communicate after being blocked off. Knackered the next day, but a real lesson in getting over the fear and giving the finger to the bonfire roundabout.
er, I just meant the conjunction nataly, the actual event I think culminated in the cd which lead to lots of other things, but its hard to distinguish because after the conjunction neptune was in aquarius while uranus was in pisces for a bit, which seams to engender a similar effect. I was just referring to the energies in the chart, hard for me to fathom
Well, I was happy to recall the context of the boom and burst. I forgot about that actually. It all happened so quickly. Time moves faster now. And the authority so many seek only exists in the self. We have so much to create, so many tools to create with, and no way of judging the meaning of an action until its complete.
I’d say, Neptune in Capricorn would have a illusions around power. Yet, personally for you, it depends on the house and other aspects in your natal chart.
neptune and uranus are the two most confusing planets, so hard to understand together ha
They’re transpersonal. So, it seems to me when Netpune of Uranus is working in your chart you just have to kind of go with the flow of them. But, you seem like a person who knows what he’s about. Stay grounded in that, don’t judge yourself or court the judgement of others, and you’ll rock all your energy to the utmost! Good luck to you.
very much in love with your blog, 12th house
Thank you very much!
Wow! I went to bed thinking things were dying down and it’s gone troppo again and we’re cruising towards 500 so here’s another contribution towards that goal, and I’m sorry if it’s long but I’m trying to clear up my previous comments, I often get criticism and wonder why and somehow I’m not communicating properly.
I subscribe to Liz Greene’s comment: “As an analyst who works primarily with individuals, I am not overwhelmingly sympathetic to the belief that that we can change the world to our own noble designs by shouting at everybody else from marches and picket lines about the evils of organisations and political parties, or by manufacturing grand well-meaning schemes by which spiritual enlightenment might be offered to the blind and stupid masses. There is enough blindness and stupidity in oneself to provide occupation for a lifetime if not longer, and I am firmly on the side of Jung when he says that if there is something wrong with society then there is something wrong with the individual, and if there is something wrong with the individual then there is something wrong with me…..if one has any hope or idealism for a better life and a better world, the place to begin is with one’s own prima materia……The outer planets are transpersonal, that is, beyond the personal, but they reveal themselves through the psychology of individuals, that is, through you and me. For this reason I feel that if one is genuinely concerned with issues of good and evil in the world, then one will ultimately need to encounter these issues within oneself.”
So I make the comment about myself that I was (and probably remain) a time bomb primed to explode on comments about the baby boomers, Mt St Helens waiting to go off, if you like, because I have Saturn and Pluto cuddled up together in the 11th house, which makes groups and their comments extremely fearful for me. I have a real job staying in groups and am hyper-sensitive. Obviously I went into the low side of myself with my rants but I credit myself for staying haute enough to battle on inn this blog and work through my fears and stay here. To do this is a daily struggle for me. It’s the first time I’ve ever admitted this publicly so, yes, it’s quite emotional for me. But the reason I’m writing this is not for some sort of sympathy, but that I’d like to say to the very few who reacted the most to my emotional (Scorpionic) rants (Plutonic), what got up your particular nose? Why do my comments spark you off? Don’t come back with how awful I am, take a look inside yourself and work out what particular buttons I pushed and perhaps you’ll see that part of this process hasn’t all been bad, it might open you up to the idea that there are elements of yourself that you might need to address to grow as a person and develop all the wealth within you for very constructive, revolutionary purposes, to become better leaders of social change because when you get to grips with yourself, you do become less judgmental and more compassionate and tolerant (sorry about those words) of others because you can see them struggling with their own inner demons. I think Bush Jnr is a heap of old cobblers, to be honest, but when I heard him say about Saddam Hussein: “He tried to kill ma daddy”, I could see the little child in him hoping for approval from a distant father and I did feel compassion (much as it pains me to have to admit this!)
The other point I want to make and, sorry, I can’t help myself, is that I’ve never, ever heard that quote: “Don’t trust anyone over 30″. I also happen to know so many in my generation who never smoked dope, never meditated or went to India, the minority did, the majority didn’t. And the reason they didn’t is because they were like people everywhere. I’ve travelled a lot and worked in different countries, and what people want basically is security, a roof over their heads and a future for their kids. So they get their heads down, bums up, go for the dream, and then find that their kids and grandkids think they were selfish, greedy bastards – bummer, eh? Can’t win!
So now back to the underpinnings of society, the economic system, which is ingrained in our consciousness too, whether we like it or not, and because apart from propensity to inner work I also have my Marxist heritage which helps me make sense of economic goings-on. It’s easy to say that baby boomers went for the greed thing, but subsequent generations in India and China, as capitalism has expanded, have gone for the same jar of cookies and these are now the Pluto in Scorpio generation. In Western society we’ve been brought up with individualism, “you too can become rich”, and so on, but each person will react differently due to their astro makeup AND their social system which permeates their consciousness too. I happen to believe that the current ways of operating capitalism in Western nations are going to come a cropper because they’ve reached their use-by date, plutocracies and oligarchies have become lumbering giants whose greed for profits is so obscene it can no longer be camouflaged with promises that “you too can be part of this”. And it’s affecting everyone. I think the great strength of the Occupy Wall Street movement, which I think is absolutely brilliant, is that it was cross-generational, from baby boomers through to the current generation. It brought people together. I do tend to go for peaceful means, not to undermine people’s revolutionary fervour, but because the Pluto-Saturn mix triggers immense fears about witch hunts, lynch mobs and vigilante movements where good people get hurt. I’ve been concerned for some time that the mass media (like the Murdoch empire, not the people’s press) has been trying to divide and rule people by pushing the myth that baby boomers are greedy bastards who are sucking dry subsequent generations while they roll in wealth themselves. Some BB’s bought this, many didn’t, but those who did are now finding it’s pie in the sky. So all I’ve been trying to say also is that generalities are fine about different generations, but in the long run, avoid the stereotypes and do what the OWS did, get people together cross-generational, and use everybody’s genius and innovation and creativity to work together to create new ways of working and supporting each other, new ways to communicate to bypass evil gits like Murdoch, and so on.
Now I hope this has made better sense and, with any luck, this might be the 500th post but if it’s not, I’ll put a hex on whoever beats me to the privilege
Perhaps I can wind up with a nice little ditty from my Pommy days in the UK:
“Here we go again
Happy as can be
All good friends and jolly good companeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
this seams indirectly aimed at me, and I dont mean that you had malicious intent, or that it was just me, just that I argued with you a bit there. I hope you did not take my response the wrong way, I was not commenting to anything deeper, only I thought you were misusing logic, I am fully aware of how projection works, and it was not yours or any others opinion that irritated me, I dont care for debating such things since everything is so relative. To me, logic and rational have rules, and when I see the misuse of that I feel the need to point it out, that was the sole extent to which I was arguing with you, and was not reflective of anything else. I am not so stuck up with this idea that I argue constantly, I only acted because you seamed to be a bit much with your constant assertions. I was already going to comment on this post, and then I saw what everyone else was saying and felt the need to defend the fair use of logic. Once I do that, I will stick it out till the end, this may seam reflective of something deeper, but thats just the way it is, you could have the craziest and most outlandish of opinions and I would not care, but you appeared to unfairly trample the opinions of others. I hope you did not take anything personally or were actually angry, and this was on a purely logical basis, and you have to take what people say with a grain of salt, most people dont really think their opinions that vehemently or intensely as there words might suggest.
If you really feel its a pluto thing, and you still feel fear over opinions on the internet, then that is something to look into instead of justifying further internet conflicts
“Saturn has this propensity too (as we shall see in our next article), and this is one area of note in this discussion because in many ways contacts between Jupiter or Saturn and Pluto are the hardest Plutonic connections to manage. Contacts with personal planets are felt with enormous urgency precisely because those planets are personal. The discomfort of Pluto is felt keenly within the human core. Contacts with outer planets are entirely transpersonal and are very difficult to actualise, hence they are not felt with anything like the same intensity. Jupiter and Saturn sit somewhere in between: they are close enough to evince truly unpleasant and Plutonic effects, but far enough away to not cause enough personal discomfort to grate. People can go for years compulsively projecting Pluto through these intermediaries without realising how entirely compulsive they are being. In a sense this has to do with the societal nature of Jupiter and Saturn, so the compulsion can be, if you like, masked with civic and status concerns. And let us be clear, they are both status-driven, albeit with markedly different flavours. Jupiter craves the status of wealth and celebrity, Saturn the status of authority and respect. They are the Lord and the Judge respectively. The former desires the grand home, the fast cars and the trophy wife (or husband), the latter desires a position of moral superiority, position and rank within the church, the community or the profession. So, crucially, whatever the precise flavour we can say of both these planets in contact with Pluto that there is status anxiety and therefore status compulsion. That is Pluto’s greatest trick of course, upping the ante until the stakes are life-threateningly high. Status-anxiety is the clue.Once again, ask the Pluto question: can I just let this go? If not, why not?”
No, I wasn’t justifying internet comments, I was explaining, and since I’ve been dealing with this for years, I really don’t need to be told to suck eggs. But I can’t win on this because by saying this I’m obviously going to be arrogant and whatever else you designate for me. What I was suggesting was that, instead of batting it back to me now, you too have the guts to look inside yourself and seeing what’s going on for you because it’s not just logic and rational, there was a huge emotional content in your responses. What buttons am I inadvertently pushing for you?
I wasnt saying you were justifying, or telling you to suck eggs, and I have yet to designate a negative quality against you, and there was very much no emotion. And I have correctly perceived you were probably talking about me, and I have a right to respond. And I have plenty of guts, and do nothing but self examine and do not fear a quality within me, and since my emotional response was so huge, I would like you to point out what exactly was emotional, I have yet to relate on an emotional level at all. The button(singular) that was pushed, I have already detailed to a great degree, and will follow my engagement to the very end, which I thought had already come, this is a quality that can be negative if thats what you think of it, but it is my quality, I acknowledge it fully. I have yet to feel anything on this post, besides laughing a few times, and would like you to stop presuming things, which is very much the root of the problem, reading too much into mine and others comments to be reflective of something bigger, most times it is not. Presuming is a very big leap there, and it very much borders on some sort of problem of ego, the ease with which you assume is what should be examined, that is if you have the guts
You know, David5379, I’ve just realised, as I mentioned above, that it’s around the time of the 4th anniversary of my father’s death and I also just realised it’s the second anniversary of when I came within a whisker of knocking at the Pearly Gates with massive, almost terminal heatstroke. I don’t know if a huge voice on the other side told me to sod off or whether, being such an arrogant Scorpio in Leo, I told them to get stuffed and refused to pass those gates. But today I’ve had lots of wonderful comments from my family and friends saying how much they love me and how glad they are I survived. And I realised that this is what counts. So I guess what it boils down to is that I’m surfacing from all the emotional shit and I’ve come to the conclusion that I really don’t give a stuff what you think about me, it’s your problem, not mine any more. Life’s far too short to sit around with a “yes, you did”, “no, you didn’t”, “yes, you are”, “no, I’m not” dialogue. I have just got a necklace I ordered with “Live, Love, Laugh”on it, so that’s what I’m embracing now, off to walk around my nature park and enjoy the birds, watch the frogs, laugh at the kids on playground. Back to living. Dialogue over. Hasta la vista.
(long sigh) I get the continued impression you think I dont like you or something, or think negatively of you. Thats not the case, what I argued I meant, and that was the sole level I was engaging on, and I was not even arguing much. I only continued as far as you did, and was annoyed you keep making it about things more than it was, I never even said anything about pluto in leo myself or any of that(I was only defending the discussion of it). That you insinuated I meant more insulted me. You have misinterpreted me, and I sought continually to correct that, after the initial disagreement. I am not thinking anything about you, and if you had taken this new attitude in the first place there would have been no conflict.
I am sorry for your hardship and glad you want to be happy, just know I was only arguing literally what I was arguing about, I feel misinterpreted, and that I was never actually addressed, I apologize if I appeared an antagonist bent on your unhappiness, but I think you have missed my original point. I matched each step you made and have ended up here insinuating something a bit mean, but not anything that wasnt already levied against me.
I want everyone to be happy, and did not think this was about that, its all irrelevant now, though, just know I do not wish you harm and have not felt personal distaste at any step, I wish you the best of luck, happy trails
Bugger, 496. Watch out, 500th poster, I’m waiting to make a plastic doll and stick pins in it because you’re going to beat me to the punch, raoflmfao.
I’ve done it – I’m the 500th poster on this threat. Wow, doing a happy dance. Do I get a special MM medal for this????
Right, there is easily enuf for a book here, yes?
Yeay, and I should get a special citation for going right off my face in quite spectacular fashion, I have been busy lashing myself since (but only with velvet whips, like I said, we Librans do like life’s little luxuries!). Can’t remember when I did such a spectacular eruption and I can’t believe I did that. Sanity restored (I hope). And I do congratulate you on such brilliant timing – aligned with all my death stuff around my own NDE and my father’s. You must be psychic
Libraaquarius, I have that same Live-Laugh-Love motto on a hangy-thing on my coat stand. ‘Live well, laugh often, love much’.
I totally admire you being brazen. x
I’ve also got a fridge magnet with the same, a daughter of a friend gave it to me and its travelled from Queensland to Scotland to England to Perth, Western Australia, to northern New South Wales, to Victoria, to mid-north NSW coast and, when we sell our home, to North Cyprus. A good message with which to travel. And thanks for the “brazen” comment too, virgo librarian. Brazen, eh? I quite like that, I don’t think I’ve ever been described as brazen in my whole life, but I think it’s great, I’ve discovered a whole new perspective on myself
I did enjoy my walk around the nature park, and watching the river meander under the bridge near here, two rivers join just upstream – South Stream and the Nambucca River – and we get amazing floods when it’s been raining heavily. Very peaceful making. And I had a smile on the way home – ever since I realised what was happening with the death thing, I’ve been running to the loo, lots of emotional release!!!
Mine was a gift too, from my mum.
The brazen thing I equate with Leo and also Libra. It’s about Respect – you’ve got it – for yourself, for others, for earth, for sunsets, for death/life – v Libran to appreciate both sides of death, upstreams and downstreams…
Thanks, virgo librarian, you’ve really gifted me with new perspectives.
Hey i have the same candels, i got got from bed bath and beyond, but i need one that says
your wrong.
It is what is is nobody messes wit me astrology. I will continue to gerneralize its a great tool.
Come to my hood- in general it has a very high crime rate, but youll be fineeeee i kid i kid.
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Just about to watch a gen doco on iview ABC, under documentary called
“When Teenage meets Old Age” cant seem to link it on here..
I watched this the other night, Sassy, it’s brilliant, a great way to overcome the generation gap, I thought. The teenagers were just so genuine and good, and it was so good to see the communication and rapport building up between the two groups. Very touching when the young lass had to leave the room in tears as the plight of the guy paralysed completed reminded her of her father’s dying days. Got a bit weepy myself. Great viewing, highly recommended to you all.
Just watching it now. Had a very close loving relationship with my Nan. We were very close. She taught me to be kind and respectful to the elderly. (Also taught me how to play poker, lololol)
They have so much wisdom and we lock all this wisdom up in elderly homes… Maybe we need to be a more family oriented, not so individualistic, maybe turning that way now since young people are staying at home anyways…
http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/863887
here it is
old lady says “The youth I have come across are obnoxious”
lolololol
NO, NO, not guilty, I’ve NEVER said that, honest
But I thought it was interesting that the young lass picked that attitude up straight away. They both seemed to soften towards each other, which was good.
Was brillant, cant wait for the next episode.
Yes, it was, wasn’t it? I’ll be looking forward to the next episode too. I adored my maternal grandparents and I think the gap between the aged and young is very sad, it would be good to see more of a family orientation develop, maybe that’s the way we can develop future community, recognising and honouring the strengths of each generation – and I’ve got to admit I wince when I hear older people criticising younger people, sometimes there’s a sense of entitlement among some elderly people when you still need to earn respect, not just think you’re going to get it by virtue of being in your older years.
I just watched the Grumpy programme and it reminded me of how I was so lonely in my school years and, although I was academically excellent, it reminded me of all the humiliations that used to get heaped on your head, particularly in gym and sport. Shudder.
But I have to say (blush, blush) that I’m now off to watch “Grumpy Old….” Oh, the shame of it! BTW, while I think of it, if you’re interested in Queen, there’s a great doco, Part 2 this week, and you’ll still be able to pick up Part 1 on iview, I think. It’s on ABC2 at 8.30. Great stuff, Freddie Mercury is just amazing and such a great attitude to life and grabbing what you can to live the best life possible.
she would LOVE LFMAO don’t u think?
thank you all for surpassing the PREVIOUSLY most commented upon post
http://mysticmedusa.com/2009/07/astro-weird-what-sign-is-this-guy/
What, actually does this tell us about our hot topics or whatever marketers call it when focus groups go ape?
I was surfing casualy and came upon a site with a guy that had alot of qualifications, neumorus schools and medals, normaly i skip when people have that plasterd because i cant tell if its an ego thing or whatever.
But skimming through it this guy knew his stuff and said that the global fuqery will be ruined by the internet the same way the guttenberg printing press destroyed the power of the church, the movement and flow of iinformation and such, sounds so cyclic and seems true..
And he dont know about astrology so i like having two confirmations of the future, kind of like when i studied the afterlife, and had two very diffrent sources confirm the same exact thing, one by psychotropic drug use and another by NDE’s/OBE’s im just so happy to find the universe is really fair and loving and just. That i didnt even know 4 years ago and searched for this truth since i was 12 in books about space, even though i couldnt read them but a caption.
Its been burning inside me to find this for a long time, im so happy to be alive now and not have to look at me in bewilderment for asking why, since i found it ons my own.
Horay for another edition of the guttenberg printing press by electronic pluse.
do you have a link to the site or remember his name? I find it fascinating!!
Aqualeoscorpmn,
keep up the search… for ..the… truth
for motivation read Siddhartha by Herman Hesse….
I have log of nuggets based on comment I have made on many blogsites but don’t have the time to consolidate. If you have the time go through my comment here you are welcome (you will find a lot of non-economics stuff but you will have to wade through a lot of economic stuff):
http://aquinums-razor.blogspot.com/2011/02/modern-world-view-and-financial-crises.html
Salam!
So by astrologys perspective of Pluto inCap
And this guys post called aquanims razor
http://aquinums-razor.blogspot.com/2011/11/here-is-how-bankers-game-works.html
Im packing…
* universal conciousness, check…. Aqua
* afterlife check… Aries
* live/d more than one life, check …. Gemini
* multiple realities check, ….Pisces
* no such thing as death, check… Scorpio
* loving universe check,…. Cancer
* eternal universe….. Capricorn
* life as previously chosen…. Tauras
* life as fair, check,…..LiBra
* life as perfectly imperfect check,…. Virgo
* life as fun, check….. Leo
* life as too big to fail, check….. Sagitariaus..
I am. Ready.
I just HAD to come back and share this with you guys, bask in its total relevance
http://youtu.be/k3Ue_Dj2GXk
you HAVE to see it
This is so awesomely immediately culturally relevant. I’m going to share it on all my social networks right away.
I was thinking – there is something else I’ve consistently noticed about Pluto in Scorpios beyond their passion for whole foods and sexual exploration – its a very cultured generation. I mean, my parents were from Toledo, Ohio. That’s it. And I was where I was from. But you guys are culture voyuers, explorers. It makes sense given the online experience your gen has.
Anyway…thanks for the link!
ha no problem, Community is just great, its just such an incredible show, im glad you enjoyed the clip
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all I have to say is, I am happily pluto in Scorpio. Nothing to justify, and really no interest in the inter-generational “conflict”. Still, I’ll speak to it.
I see Pluto in Leo as very close to us ideologically. For better or worse, we are fixed, and we get each other in a very innate way. I have a boomer friend with a strong Leo Pluto who is one of the greatest instructors and critical thinkers I have ever met. His opinion is one of the only ones I really listen to. It carries the weight of years of experience, real humility, and humor.
If anything, we need to open our ears, and do our best to truly hear ‘them’ before making a judgment. ‘Haute’ Scorpio is about absorbing the information, slowly taking it in, with grace…not striking out blindly at a perceived enemy. It’s a waste of energy and real loss, in the end.
I personally suspect Pluto in Capricorn will reveal all, and that trying to force change won’t be necessary.
I am now not certain where you are getting your information, but good topic. I must spend a while finding out more or figuring out more. Thanks for great information I was searching for this information for my mission.
This is the first time I’ve commented, but I couldn’t help it. I live in Boston and am friends with some Occupiers. They are mostly all Pluto in Scorpio. I am not, I am Pluto in Virgo and want to get out there with them, but somehow haven’t done it. When I went to visit Occupy Boston, they were all in their early 20′s! And my Occupy Facebook friends from New York are the same. There are certainly older people here and there, but this movement belongs to Pluto in Scorpio. And keep watching, they are going to get stronger.
Is it anything to do with time responsibilities, like jobs/business/fam that prevent the Pluto in V people from becoming so involved, do you think? Or is it something else?