When Saturn Is Your Relationship Counsellor

According to her Astrotheme chart, Lady Gaga has Saturn Rising…in Sagittarius.

The perspective above IS tres Saturn, don’t you think?

It’s also a reflection of her Mars in Capricorn, the strongest Mars of all.

It bestows upon peeps a fiendishly powerful work ethic. Hers is conjunct Neptune so she’s into harnessing the Neptunian glamours towards an awesome end.

Then there is her Moon in Scorpio – the deepest, darkest powers of self-regeneration no-matter-what – and Venus in blazingly independent Aries enhanced by Uranus in freedom-loving Saggo.

Do you think her perspective here is admirable or melancholy?

 

105 thoughts on “When Saturn Is Your Relationship Counsellor

  1. As a Saggo Rising and Moon in Scorp, I have to say it’s so true about following your dreams, but as a Libra optimist and Venus in Virgo perfectionist, I think there ought to be some middle ground. Maybe find men who support you following your dream? I want my cake and to be able to eat it too dangit!

    From what I read about lady gaga she’s afraid that getting hooked up with a guy will damage her music writing ability. :/ I’m not sure that’s a really healthy stance.

  2. Her Scorp is showing in that quote. Why must it be either/or? I agree with year of fox, middle ground is needed. Also, I wouldn’t take advice from someone who unjustly, maybe irrationally, fears and/or dislikes straight men. (At the very least, she comes off that way.)

  3. Dear Gaga
    Take it from a fellow Saturn Rising, and a Capricorn, and one who HAS done their Saturn return… A career does make for a wonderfully obedient bed-fellow, but don’t fool yourself on the fidelity. When your CAREER does wake up one morning, and it does tell you you’re no-longer the one for them, you can’t slap it in the face, cut up it’s clothing, or even bitch it out to all of it’s friends.
    Your DREAMS on the other hand, can never leave you, because, if they are true dreams, they are always still flirting and just out of reach.

  4. In that photo, to me, there’s a sense of sadness and introspection and a sort of longing for something nebulous. I’ve just been reading Liz Greene’s book on Saturn and she comments how our relationships are such an incredibly challenging area for us. At the same time, I’ve been pondering a missive from someone who has father issues, is externalising them into fundamentalist religion and metaphorical punch-ups with father figures, so I think it’s fine to follow your dream but also not to use it as an escape route from looking within and growing on all levels through the challenges of your external relationships.

    • RE: Escapism….Gosh that is so true. Sometimes I fear that I am missing out not pursuing relationships harder. :(

    • Have that book LL. It’s a good one and makes much sense of Saturn in my 7th square Aries stuff.

      Integration of my inner Being and me was through those relationships. That was the marriage, ultimately. Sun/Mn midpoint on Pisces MC opposite Pluto…

      Not that I’m done marrying….

  5. my father was a successful doctor and darling of the a-listers until he got a brain tumour and everyone came up and got their files.

    he died alone

    like we all do

  6. I have a friend with this same astro makeup. I wonder if she feels similarly… And oddly enough, I adore the friend but cannot STAND Lady Gaga. Go figure. :)

    But on a serious note, I think poor Gaga may have been burned badly in the past by a former lover. She’s still young, so hopefully if that’s the case she’ll grow out of this eventually. Of course career and dreams are important, but so is love with others. I agree with the above: it doesn’t have to be either/or.

  7. Sounds just like me: Virgo sun, mars in scorpio.

    I think we need this kind of stuff–about whether to follow your dreams–and work and creative pursuits in the oracle to balance out the lerv stuff.

  8. Nice one, reminds of something my Ramzilla mother said to me ” time is going to past irrespective of whether you decide to do something constructive with it or not, so you may as well… *insert daughters current crazy idea here*.

  9. Her perspective is spot on! I agree with every word and her strong work ethic mixed with an absolute dedication to creativity and individiuality. Even of you don’t like her work..you should appreciate and admire the woman behind it.

  10. Lady Gaga is so not gaga in her realistic attitude. She’s not cyncial and she’s not melancholic at all, she’s self actualised and ‘real’ in her outlook i think. Whether you have a relationship or not is secondary to what you as an individual are doing with your life, no matter how humble and day to day or whether its a soaring megastar career, are you doing what you want with your life?

    I think she’s right on. Live for what you love, kids, career or your art, find your own path as a woman and live it, this is the only way to be happy. Relationships are a nice bonus or not in my view, they may or may not last, but you will always wake up with yourself so why not be responsible for your own definition of who you are and thrive in that.

    • enjoying thinking about this…relationship experiences are different for everyone of course, but i’ve noticed some people do them beautifully, no major problems and others, like moi, have lost themselves in intimate rels.

      For me, i’ve had to get my rel with myself right first i think, and some days that’s hard.

      I do respect other people’s experiences and views very much though, as i learn from the attitudes and experiences of others, very much so.

      • I agree cc! I totally admire Gaga… and love her work! I think she is saying that you gotta do what you love, not invest it all in a love relationship…. I have been inspired by peep who don’t let relationship get in the way of their work in the world, they demand respect and consideration, and give it also. I think so many probs w relationship are when peep aren’t turned on and active in what they do…

        • hi pg, yes these people are inspiring to me too…when i see successful men, a lot of them seem to be active in their own path, and it must be amazing if they’re involved fathers and husbands too. i think women are way more interesting too if they’re really involved in something or loving something. A girl pal’s younger sis has had a driven prof career, then she had an illness and was forced to go easier on herself and i saw her the other day and she was totally absorbed and loving being a mother to her one year old leo boy…she was the happiest i’ve ever seen and you could see she was just thriving with love for her little boy, it was inspiring, especially after all she’d been thru with her breakdown. A loving rel with some being or some activity heals deeply i reckon.

  11. Stunning Gaga pic! Feminine, mysterious and in profile so beautiful. This is the kind of quote I would tell my 15 year old self… nothing wrong with a lil ambition when hormones seem to want to run the show – espesh if you are the kind to wake up after the show with a WTF?!

  12. Next door office acupuncturist introduced me to his new dog today…Her name was~Sweetpea~

    Looked at him a little differently…. :cool:

    No I will not be anybody’s bitch

    Just my own

    :lol:

      • Chirochiq,

        Forgive me for my self indulgence for not having acknowledged you sooner as we seem to have the Chiro in common. Simply was not registering..

        You absolutely go. One of the most honorable things to do is to align another human being’s skeletal structure thus allowing the energy to flow properly ,no?

        I salute you as think you are in study for this? Are you interning?

        New doc in the office is from Montreal, Canada…interesting. He said he has
        a story to tell us later about how he got to our parts (many challenges, a journey).

        Think I’m going to like him. x

        • Hi Sweetpea,

          No i’m not doing chiro/physio, i’m just a cheery person, most of the time, even tho some days i’m think i’m deluded :) ? : ( … I can see how this might be read into what i’ve called myself here tho, among a few other things, but didn’t realise till afterward, soz to mislead anyone that way.

          it was just the first thing i thought of as it’s on my ascendent and at the time i started off here…and i’ve learnt a lot about relationships with pluto and uranus in 7th quite painfully all through my life, difficult painful family & partner rels till i was 42, then ‘magically’ my life has kind of been turned around from so much despair because i found a reason to love life, and as Mystic told me my harsh lessons all came early with Saturn rising…

          I don’t know much about astrology, as i dip into and out of it quite randomly, afficted merc in sag 10th and afflicted jup in gem 4th…jupiter only makes me stupider :) and gem twice as much it seems :) luckily tho there’s an aspect of uranus to give me some better thinking i suppose.

          uranus in 1st, major changes with me now, have a bit of a radical chart too, am learning heaps here thanks to Mystic…just starting out formal writing studies (north node 3rd in comms, toro moon, trine mars and conjunct moon)…i’ll prob become a gossip columnist or write humour maybe? Just realised what low side of mars and venus transit can be…yes learning! :)

          • excuse moi for raving on so much about myself Sweetpea…can gabba on like such a diffuse mutable…

            From reading your some of your posts you sound like you’re more than a chiro/physio? More shamanic chiro/physio/energy healer, and like you’ve studied how higher/lower energies relate to the body? Are you an astrologer too, or have you been studying it for a long time? You know so much about it…

            I’ve read how tired you’ve been some days from giving the massages, but you sound like a woman who enjoys and is good at what you do :)

            Good luck with your new doc, it’s good when there’s a good team at work and everyone’s co operating…btw, soz to hear about your other doc leaving, the end of an era and the start of a new one eh! xxx

            • ha ha, sweetpea, i’ve just realised maybe ‘why’ i didn’t come across as a body/skeletonian worker…prob. because i don’t sound like someone who is ‘grounded’ in her body as such :O ) i live in my head, and for a living i rent out properties and have my hands in a few other things and have a psych deg, but have never practised as i had a good career at the time, more did it for personal answer finding.xxx

              • Ha, if only we could massage the mind. Guess we do that in a way too via the bod .

                Remember one time I had a detective come in…He’d left his wallet, badge, and revolver on my sheet hamper as he was face down on the table…

                Boy, Gem Mars mind went rampant. Thought I’d zone him out and go hold up the convienience store meanwhile :)

                Trusting soul he was…

          • Good luck with your writing Chirochiq…And no, you are surely not stupid but know how you feel a bit I think with Mercury square Saturn. Was hard in school as a youngster…hard to express oneself with the more formal stuff. But you taking formal writing with your Gem placements sounds like it should probably work out beautifully.

            My youngest daughter has Sagg Saturn/Moon in the 1st house. Her father and I divoced when she was 7. Was hard for her. Know when Uranus was in my 7th that when I got divorced so can imagine with Uranus there and Pluto natally, like you, it would certainly have it challenges.

            Her Saturn is also close to the Scorpio Asc…Noel Tyl states Saturn and the Asc can indicate a complicated birth. She was born with the cord around her neck and so there were some complications but luckily all turned out okay.

            Actually, as I’m writing this it comes to mind that had she been born a few mintues earlier she would have had gaga’s signature…Sagg rising Saturn in 1st. Will have to keep an eye on her with her with that Mars in Cap and Saturn influenced Moon.

            x

    • What a crack up sweetpea.. only from the vantage point of meeting my ex through my neighbours and then after the getting over of that and the awkwardness.. they got a couple of labradoodles and one of ‘em was named the same as my ex (incl. spelling!!) and they’d be calling him out in the yard or ticking him off and I’d be groaning and feeling trapped in a time warp. All good and all gone but yeah.. was weird.

  13. Well, its cute, but your career can wake up and tell you it doesn’t love you anymore. And if you have a career that won’t let you have a relationship, you’ve gone and committed yourself to an Abuser.

  14. Quite a quote. I must say that I don’t find it “admirable” exactly because I believe that it takes a lot of strength and faith both to follow your dreams and to love someone. Plus, I don’t find it very strong to have such a cynical view of relationships and people. That aside, it takes enormous strength and faith to follow your dreams, especially to the extent she does. But as a romantic I believe you can have both a dream career and love.

  15. Most people have said what I thought as I read that quote, I thought it happens to celebs all the time, they kind of drop off the map and no one really cares about them any more. But I have a Mars in Capricorn too. It’s not a man hating thing in my opinion. It’s just I never feel like I need a man to complete my life.

    I think a career can tell you it doesn’t love you anymore especially a fickle one like music and a man might love you forever.

  16. Gaga has Venus in Aries conjunct NN in Taurus.

    My feeling/ take is that she’s seeking to ground a sort of “individuation”/independent energy for herself as they are opposed her South Node in Scorpio/Mn/Pluto which is quite intense.

    She plays this out through her art. She very well may have been obsessed over love issues, etc in the past and is seeking a cleansing.

    My take anyway…

    • And not to be too serious about the shit….I’m listening to Allejandro before going to bed ;)

      And that Allejandro..he better got something substantial to offer up to the girl friend. :lol: x

  17. Mars in Capricorn here, too. I always feel I could work harder, and over the years have learned to turn it down, not burn burn burn through it.

    Wonderful that Gaga values the career that you forge with your own bare hands. It’s usually a job, not entire career, that wakes up one day and says it doesn’t love you. The career is one perhaps YOU wake up to, and are finished with. It’s a longer process and a deeper one. And the whole thing is YOURS.

    A relationship with a human being is also work and commitment, and one I never take lightly… I wake up each day and pledge to honour it anew. Then sometimes i wake up and the whole thing has burnt away but I had hung in there trying my best. So i pack up – it takes a few hours now to pack an entire house, organise the bills and rent and ‘in-laws’/support team for the leav-ee. But then it’s done.

    Pisces knows the dream can still come true! Well, i’ve kissed a few frogs, but why the heck not? No toad EVER messed with my career.

  18. Most men don’t do strong rock/pop chics well… weird but true.. the reason still elusive…

    I don’t think she’s melancholy. I think she’s young and feeling invincible and not at the point where that level of intimacy is of benefit. She views it as a hindrance to her goals. She’s playing safe and protective.

    All things we love.. be that careers, partners, goals, dreams, pets, our former shapes or whatevs will change or fade or possibly even decrease in desire as we grow and change ourselves. To write one option off in favour of another is fine for a time.. but we can never see the future and the actual landscape it will have when we’re standing there, complete with our view of that landscape. It’s imaginings… and I for one have imagined being invincible to many things that have found their way through chinks in the armour to soften me and whisper quietly that there is more and to seek that ‘more’ out. As I’ve gotten older I’ve learnt al ittle more about the delicate art of balance… as do we all.. or at least we get the opportunity.

    Just fyi.. I sing, I have a band.. I favour it above most things and have put it in front of other things and I love it, the singing, performing, the band banter and all of it.. even the slog. I still want ‘the man’ that can roll with me and can be the one I look to for support and love and some nurturing. Where is he.. he ain’t the version that comes looking! (Just as an aside.. I concede that could be the result of my choices and visioning there =)

    Another interesting thing to note in that music space is you’ll often see groupie chic’s hanging around schmoozing for the lads but you don’t often see men enough in their power to do the same. They’re eyeing you from afar waiting for a cue and you’re not sure what they’re into you for. It’s an unusual phenomena and longevity isn’t often in the mix. Guess that’s why they call it rock ‘n roll eh?! Wry smile…

    I had the fortune (?) of being in this scene but not working it during my younger years and (blah blah blah.. epic long story there) eventually got over my residual crap (= fears, judgements, exposure.. competition..stuff) and went for it proper.. so older wiser version of what might have taken me out had I been her age.

    I think if we quote GaGa in another 10 years she might be saying something different… and that’s cool.. that’s just an indicator of growth and revelation.

    Ooops… reckon I got me enrolled in a ramble…

    • Love your ramble, ScorchedE! Can identify with the band thing too. The practice, the performance, the banter…and definitely the guys hangin’ in the background. The ones that come up to you schmooze and looze he heh. They’re usually taken in by the performance persona. Then again, others meet you on the ground as PEOPLE. And they’re the cool and interesting ones. That goes for the chix as well… they’re so beautiful and supportive when you’ve given them your song.

      • Mwah! Mille…many tks… after it posted I just looked and went ‘epic.. even more than before I posted.. giggles/groan =)

        Fellow rock chic eh. Nice!! Yes… it’s odd and they can fall in love with the performance persona which is not who one is off the stage.

        I’ve met some awesome peeps on the ground (like that term!) but being the super strong independant type I still face all the reluctance of ohhh… you’re real, you get down or cranky too… damn!’ LOL … another product of my own doing I KNOW .. have had that like FOREVER!

        • Scorched & Mille, thanks, i’ve very much enjoyed your ramblings…makes me think guys do rels so differently to women, not all, but i’m thinking of past history of conditioning of women in society to be wifelike and motherlike as if that’s her biological destiny & that’s fine and all good if that’s what a woman wants. i guess we all want different things at different ages and stages.

          Was reading at start of uni studies in writing, how the whole concept of the social construct of ‘family’ as a social economic structure was historically kind of set up by French gov. primarily for the purpose of controlling ‘unruly citizens’ in the form of children, and this is an interesting factor in how women have defined themselves through time…Now it’s all very diverse forms of female identities and families since then, a good thing i think that women have just as much right as men to put their career or art first if they want to.

          • and thinking too that “it takes a community to bring up a child” as well, maybe there’s more of that now in diverse families and parental identities, than there was in smaller family structures…

  19. One thing I learnt watching the example of my parents, was to never put your own career on hold in deference to your man’s. Best thing I ever did was refuse to take his advice (well, his peremptory order) to just stay at home with the kids. In fact, after leaving HIM at home with the kids, he followed me into MY chosen career. Ha.

  20. Oh, and when he eventually decided he didnt love me anymore, I still have a bloody good, rewarding and prestigious vocation to fall back on and support myself and the kids no matter what. Mind you, I have saturn in virgo in the second house, so I never could deal with the idea of not being able to support myself.

  21. I think this view IS melancholy. And it is young.

    Applaud her success and focus though I do, it’s pretty sad.
    Moon in Scorp needs depth in relationships and intensity of feeling I think.

    Who cares about romance forever? That’s not a goal. But giving love to people can be a goal that is very rewarding and none more so than your family.
    Giving love to yourself and your career is important but just not that rewarding in the long run.

    Anyway, I think she is being witty here, and maybe her Uranus and Venus stand in the way of her being soppy like me, but this advice wouldn’t make for a great life imo.

    I think a good relationship with a man is one where you feel relaxed and interested.
    It doesn’t sound to me like she has had a relationship like this and if she did, she might feel it’s not enough and clop off in her heel-less high heels.

    • So agree, Andy. And part of me wonders if this is her just being, quotable.

      And as ShantiDevi pointed out below, it’s the love of a sure thing – which loving people never really is. Still, it’s the essence of human experience. We’re not all here to be devoted to just one thing at the cost of another, even if saying it seems interesting and strong.

      Seems. Not is. And what if one’s dreams include such a love, what then? This is youth speaking out of unblemished confidence. I can forgive her for it. Still though I get how Gaga loves to use the hurt of having been formerly shunned, I think it’s ridiculous to release statements turning your current path into a philosophy. There is courage in not knowing. But we’re not in the business of being iconic and well, she is.

      The very act of living is about taking all of you, your heart, your need and want for others, your dreams, your wounds and refining your humanity through it. It’s not about capitalizing on what’s sure out there, but thriving and creating through uncertainty by harnessing your YOU-NESS. Which btw wouldn’t be so distinct unless it came butting and loving up against others.

      This reminds me of the story of a man who secluded himself to meditate upon and work on his anger. When he came down the mountain, he murdered the first man who caused offense and was in shock that he’d lost his so-called peacefulness. I’m paraphrasing loosely, but my point is, a vacuum is exactly that. An empty, interrupted space.

      The faithful do not believe because, they believe despite of. Loving is often times that despite of, but we wouldn’t be human without it.

      • I love that story about the man coming down the mountain. All the most serious aussie bhuddists I have met were ‘meditate or murder’ types, best off on the Ashram, lol! Yes, one’s dreams should include manifesting love.

  22. All I can see is an incomplete image of a science fiction/fantasy character. I’m thinking the tree people from the lord of the rings, but I am not sure that is right, definitely a creature that appears out of a natural substance, like a wall or something.
    Weird, cause I can see them appearing out if the thing, and even the loping walk. But no idea where it is from.

    Otherwise I really have no interest in this person and the things she says.

    I wish I could think of the fantasy character she is probably completely unaware she ridiculously looks like though.

  23. Speaking as someone who has seen countless women turn into drips over love, i think it is healthy to put yourself, self-actualizing, prosperity, family/kids, friends first and if love happens or you hook up with a really great sex partner it is a cool bonus. The coolest people i know are like that and it seems to make them more attractive.

  24. Both of them, admirable and melacholy, and TRUE

    Women which such strong talent have a hard time with old-fashioned men, they are still out there.
    Then there are women like us, who want a career and a familly, but I would never follow a man in detriment of my desire and dreams. I´m not unfaithfull but neither a doormat.

    Taurus Sun in the 10th, Gemini Rising with North Node in 1st house.

    It IS written.

    • Having said that, “careers” are fickle things to commit to also. Best to follow the heart after due consideration…

      • If she relies on her fans to fulfill her lack of a love life then she is going to be in for a relationship love between two equals.

        But, you should never give up your dreams or career for anyone- ever.

    • Some men who lack confidence.

      Not a good man. He will be there to support, encourage and cheer you on. I luckily have a music career and a long term relationship with a fellow artist who stands by me.

  25. It’s a sad, cowardly, and control freaky comment. Her Venus and Moon are Mars-ruled. Both are debilitated, while the Sun is strengthened by its ruler, Mars in Cap.

    If you’ve been pursued by a Cap you may have the experience of their needing a sure thing before they’ll take a risk. They have the most profound fear of rejection it exhibits itself in a commitment to anything that is reliable, not rewarding. The reward is in the reliability, not in being fulfilled.

    5th house Venus needs love, and to get is purely on stage is not fulfilling. Her Sadge ASC is ruled by a strong Jupiter, but soft and vulnerable. With Saturn rising the sign’s natural trust and optimism is crushed. This comment is the revelation of someone who is still desperately insecure and cannot trust herself or others. She cannot trust herself to be strong enough to risk intimacy. Classic negative Cap/Saturn, and the antithesis of empowered Aries.

    • Astute observations but she’s 25 years old. ~Sad, cowardly, control freakery…~

      Yes, she’s probably all of that, it’s her signature to work with… but like I often want to say to others…”come back in 20 yrs and we’ll talk”

      Debilitations are there for a reason. Never an absolute.

      • I am analyzing a specific expression of a specific person, not generalizing. I’m sure she has better days.

        Still, here, her Venus expresses poorly. In fact, it is not even sublimated, but repressed. She does not come across to me as a serious artist. A serious artist would likely switch wounded/frustrated Venus energy from love into art, not career.

    • Ohm Shanti.. goodness you just explained Mr. X to me, Capp Sun. As well as the Cappo Comedy Writer of yore. With Uranus & Pluto in my 1st house, I don’t usually get descriptors like “reliable” – more like..electrifying.

      So I’m so feeling the hurt on the reliable trumping rewarding when it comes to them.

      I think you read it right on, start to finish. And I respect Gaga for her work, her maturity though? Well, I don’t think there’s a short cut to the ripening we all go through, and sometimes artists like her mistake their talent as a short cut for the process. There isn’t one.

      • Thanks for your kind feedback. Her chart is textbook and easy to synthesize, follow the disposition. When Cap planets are working overtime, it’s not necessarily an exalting advantage.

        She is a compassionate person, and would get a lot of benefit from feeding and developing her Jupiter to the point she can show some compassion to herself.

        • Yes, Jupiter/Mercury in Pisces square Saturn in 1st, those are excellent points.

          Still think tho with Venus in Aries conjunct Taurus NN (ruled by Venus of course) opposite Scorpio placements (12th…the collective)..

          And Venus trine Sagg Uranus in 1st, she is not going to sublimate her Venus into a mode that is everyone’s aesthetic. Not with all that Scorp. She may take a hit in her personal life meanwhile, but…

          As you conveyed, you are an Aries and what is it we say “I’ve got to be me?” :) Sometimes, in order to do that it’s a lonely ride…

          Bless

          • I appreciate your emoticons, but I am not feeling a lot of harmony or agreement here, and that’s fine.

            You are more than free and welcome to continue to think whatever you like about her Venus. For whatever reason you choose to reassert that, I offered my own analysis of a single pull quote, out of context. I am reading her chart through it. I did not join this discussion to participate in a competition or debate, repeat myself, nor hurt Lady Gaga’s feelings or reputation with plain talk.

            I have no inclination to use astrology to affirm a person by suggesting their life is a reflection of an inherently skillful or attractive expression of their planetary potential.

            The absence of active art language in the quote is not a matter of taste, it’s matter of fact and focus. She has not stated here that careerism is her art, or beautiful. Andy Warhol said, “Business is the best art.” She’s not talking about art or aesthetics.

            She’s making an assertion about career as a primary relationship that will meet her Venus needs. That’s not an arty move. That’s the disposition of her Venus talking about love and work.

            Astrology is an exceptionally useful system and there are many ways to use it creatively to achieve different results.

            ***

            Lady Gaga is a part of the first generation in decades not to have a trans-Saturnian planet in Libra. Relationships have not a been a core social theme for about 30 years. (Hello, Saturn?) And doesn’t ‘hook-up’ youth culture reflect that? This a very reasonable astro-logic to establish relationships are not a focus of her life’s planetary pattern. Eastern hemispheric emphasis, natch.

            Neptune in Capricorn idealizing and glamourizing career, pinning their most delicate sensitivities to their work; using it as a panacea, escape, or refuge from life’s disappointments is not hard to understand. It’s real, straightforward astrology.

            It is possible to help a person by telling them how great they are. It is also possible to use reliable methods to come to terms with what is in the chart and understand that debilities and exaltations both need special handling and can express in overdrive for good or for ill.

            It is possible to use the chart to maximize potentials and try to find fulfillment or help oneself adjust to a lack of it, but that requires a point of view, worldview, or philosophy. Astrologers have different methods and values. When discussing a chart I have no reason to abandon useful tools because they do not flatter the ego of a public figure who is absent.

            Telling me to come back in 20 years is a stereotypically authoritarian Capricorn comment/command, and having that sort of patience will not necessarily prove you wise. It hedges your bet, and corners others into a commitment to a long-term investment in your being right. Its not hard to be right about Saturn doing the work we expect it to. That is exactly the sort of relationship to risk my first comment discussed. It kills the risk of making a gamble in favor of a sure thing — the low, slow yield of time. Very few people completely fail to mature in two decades. But that was not Mystic’s question.

            May you stars guide you towards your goals.

            • Shantidevi, This obviously is important to you. None of us here profess to being professional astrologers.

              ~Come back in twenty years~ was of the context that people change like gaga will change through her years. She will have different perspectives and different things to say about life.

              • You also said, I couldn’t have any idea what I was talking about if I wasn’t an Aries. Whatever button I pushed in you to elicit that sort of commentary, if you intend to engage me, I’d prefer you make your points without talking down to me.

                Peace.

                • Again, was only talking in the context of Saturn and Aries and that at 52, it takes those challenges ~to~ be empowered. Of course other’s have their own challenges and I validate that.

                  The comment I made about “no idea” is that it’s a sterotype for many to assume that just because we’re an Aries we’re automatically strong or that it will not take life’s lessons and experiences to cultivate that.

                  You’d said gaga’s Cap/Saturn was the anithesis of an
                  empowered Aries and my slant on the thing was that for now, perhaps, as in time she may very well find that her work is not a substitute for love.

                  “Come back in 20 yrs” was for that exact reason; she may look at things differently. That was about her, not you.

                  No intention to talk down to you at all..Apologies if offended.

                  • It’s time for a Mercury check, Sweetpea.

                    You have been making your points by making it all about me. Telling me to manage my time and opinions on your timeline; or that I need to have your Sun sign to make a competent astrological analysis; or that because I am an Aries I think in a particular way, is most certainly offensive.

                    I hope you become more aware of how to use astrology to inform your own behavior before you use its language to influence others.

    • My Moon in Cap (Saturn ruled), Saturn square Aries Stellium….

      If you are not an Aries, you have no idea what it takes to be an empowerd one. ;)

    • She’s 25 yrs old FA….she hasn’t even had a Satun Return yet. Maturity still in incubation. Too soon to tell…And no, of course there are no short cuts. Who said she thinks there is?

      All her Scorp…sure she has a hint however…

      • Am sure she does have a hint.. but wounding takes ripening, no one’s unscathed but it takes time for it to yield its gifts so to speak. Of course, I wouldn’t expect her to be completely mature, but that’s just it – with iconic figures their statements have so much impact.

        I think the short cut was implied by what I feel is a bit of hubris in her statement. It’s the either/or of it – obviously I’m NOT at all for surrendering one’s dreams, but only for dreaming a fuller, more complete picture.

        I wouldn’t endorse the statement in reverse either.

  26. “Do you think her perspective here is admirable or melancholy?”

    Both! Because yeah she is stating that guys suck…but it’s the truth. And she is also stating to follow your dreams.

  27. This perspective is brutally honest, definitely one of somebody who has been burned by love – and once you have, you will never see any love relationship with the same certainty again. Also, I agree. Substitute ‘career’ with ‘achieving personal dreams’ or ‘spiritual fulfilment’ and the statement might be a bit more appealing.

  28. I have venus conj jup in cap. I think her statement is admirable. But also makes me sad. Because I agree with it but wish it wasn’t true.

  29. And yes Mystic, Mars in Cap the force to reckon with I venture…

    Kataka/Sagg Mn daughter has Cap Mars in 2nd trine Virgo Venus on the MC. Don’t think she’s messing around with her women’s/religious studies at college…on a mission of some sort.

    Gaga showin’ up in an egg/meat dress is probably about Uranus in Sagg in 1st house.

    Mercury in Pisces..Do think she’s sincere in caring for others..

  30. The quote does not say to close your heart to love! To ‘follow men’ says to walk behind or to go behind. I think she is talking about that kind of co-dependent relationship that can be self-destructive – thus forsaking your path to true self-expression.

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