Neptune In Vogue

Vogue Italia Plus Size IssueThe always ground-breaking Vogue Italia is getting raves (some rants, mostly raves) re their first “plus-sized” issue.

Leaving aside that it shouldn’t be unusual to feature beauty of all shapes-sizes-whatever in a fash-mag, this is actually a quiet cultural revolution.

Vogue Italia is not some mall catalogue, you know.

I see it as a manifestation of Neptune in Pisces.

Among many things, Neptune is fashion, art, cinema, concepts of beauty…In Pisces, the home sign of Neptune, it just dissolves limitations.

Franca Sozzani, the long-time editor-in-chief of Vogue Italia, is a very Aquarian Capricorn who has just had her 2nd Saturn Return. She did the beautiful “all black” version of the mag a few years ago. She’s kind of awesome.



64 thoughts on “Neptune In Vogue

  1. I always KNEW I’d come back in style…ven/merc/mars in pisces in 1st!!!
    And to quote, Sophia Vergaras—“You skinny girls look good in clothes–I look better naked!” Lol
    Here’s a toast to gentle padding.

    • This spread is gorgeous. It makes the skinny models all seem like Mick Jagger clones!

      • Can it NOT be a POLARISATION of which body type is beautiful?

        Like racism, when the tide turns in your favour, is it right to sneer at “the other side”?

        “You skinny girls!”
        “You fat girls!”

        Bitch bitch bitch

        • I still think some models look like Mick Jagger:) Keith Richards, too. Rod Stewart…Maybe David Bowie, if they are lucky!

        • TOTALLY agree.

          To me, honestly, the spread, though beautiful, isn’t that spesh. Just another end of the spectrum. (Being the kind of female that I am, I don’t see “my type” represented)
          Why can’t a spread feature women from as many different body types as possible? (Was gonna say “all” body types, but not very on point, teehee…) Oh that’s right, “fashion” mags.
          Also in healthcare, you get to see sooooooo many different bodies you realize that these mags are pointless. For me anyway.

    • Ha ha, that’s what I always said. Didn’t know I had a famous precedent. Actually, I look pretty damn good in clothes too…but go the curvy girls and the skinny girls, the tall, the short, the whole lot of us, we are just WAAAAY more beautiful than men!

  2. Holy sh*. I’ve been pondering a fiction piece on same/similar but feel the need to really think it through CAREFULLY.

    Don’t want to cause offense where not intended, it’s a sensitive issue, but at the same time I feel women’s appearance and fashion intersect with notions of beauty and sexual longing. The emotions are complex and want to be explored.

    Notions are: beauty and the self, beauty and the observed, the use of beauty in shaping perspectives on fashion…and, of course, the self- and other- denigrating effects of creating a standard in the fashion industry. Namely, self abuse and bitcherel. What happens to self love, and acceptance of others?

    I think it is right to celebrate variety. I adore fashion and photography. Yet it IS a fetishisation, because it is so bound to desire and the observer. Why do ordinary people feel not simply inspired but shot to pieces by the idealism of an image?

    When we see the variety of body types and appearances in ALL the issues, without a devoted “exotica” special, our perceptions may be radically altered, of who is “us” and who is “them”.

    • Oh jeez I’m tired of that “us and them” argument. I remember when they built a new library in San Francisco, someone donated millions of bucks to build a special facility for LGBT books and research, it’s a whole floor of the library. Immediately the LGBT community complained that they were being segregated and the books should be in the “regular” shelves.

      • So the LGBT should’ve complained!

        Genitalia, appearance and sexuality should all be extricated from the acceptable dominant paradigm.

        Freedom to choose! Freedom to play! Freedom NOT TO CHOOSE and NOT TO BE DECIDED AGAINST.

        And those who rebel against “regular”? Often so unaccepting.

        WHAT I DO SEXUALLY IS MY OWN BUSINESS. All repeat*

        He heh. The refrain that dare not speak its name!

      • Oh, the “ordinaries” are people without an army of cosmetic artists, photographers and assistants, who all craft the image.

        Not a label meaning plain or anything similar.

  3. They are certainly posed on the cover to downplay many of their plus size aspects though. Lean over so we can see you cleavage and hide your stomach there love. Loose shirt and a crutch shot to distract from any sitting bulges and thighs. Being careful not to be too ‘risky’

  4. Ah I have been spreading this little meme as far as I can. !! That cover is gorgeous, and the inside is a great deal more risky Shell !! Here is the link to the actual story:http://www.vogue.it/en/magazine/cover-story/2011/06/belle-vere

    What gets me is that in a number of the shots they’re SMOKING. Sigh. How easily shocked and offended I am :D :D

    Also milleunanotte, I do very much get your point, but the thing is that in this culture we do tend to set up polarised dichotomies and then value load. We have a value that being overweight (not just fat, but mildly plump like these size 12/14 stunners) is disgusting, sickening and unhealthy. You should read some of the comments in the yellow press on this shoot – there are some real haters out there.

    Franca Sozzani is going radically anti-anorexia, which is the valued normative look for the fashion industry, in an attempt to overcome that norm – in order to do so she is dragging the pendulum waaay back in the other direction (although I would have been absolutely gobsmacked if she had used size 20, or 24 models). Thus she may help to overturn that aspect of the value-loading, without actually overturning the dichotomy itself.

    I completely agree with you. Having been mildly plump to stunningly fat I just don’t comment on other people’s bodies, or looks, except to complement, but I will NEVER mention weight. “You look great” is as far as I go…. Way back in the dark ages, there used to be a rule “Personal comments are odious” whereas in our modern culture its more like “Personal comments make great reality TV”.

    Our society sets people up to feel anxious and insecure, that way they can be sold products which will ease these feelings of insecurity and anxiety, for a short while… People who are secure are far more interested in the contents of a person’s mind than in the size of their arse, but ya can’t sell them Prozac and vaginal deoderants. (Love those panty-liner ads – your vagina smells – use these)

    And if we can’t sell people Prozac and panty liners, where would modern capitalism be ?

    I’d be very interested in reading your story !!

    • Thanks Ms Domestic, but I’d be interested in comparing the crossover points of our so-called polaric “stories” first!

      I want to KNOW. Does the polaric opposite fit the “opposite” in the same way? Or are there finer threads that make one less than the other, in dominant view? I am small, and I think women with bigger figurers suffer more than I do, and their power may be taken away sometimes differently.

      How MEAN! How mean! Apparently I should feel glad now that athleticism and coloured skin are in fashion.

      So rare are thepeople who meet me one to one, face to face, eye to eye and never question where all that came from until they understand WHAT IT IS NOW. And those people, I LOVE. Even if we clash, I pay them full respect.

  5. I’ve always been conflicted about my love of fashion and fashion mags because the industry does uphold such a narrow (and unhealthy, for a lot of people) view of what is “beautiful.” By all means, hire skinny models–but hire curvy models and plump models and muscular models and “average” models too! I remember canceling my subscription to Vogue (American Vogue, which is pretty terrible anyway) because EVERY SPREAD featured the same three pale, blonde, waifish women, issue after issue. It wasn’t the models’ fault–they were lovely–but it just got so boring.

  6. Pretty cool how they have a ‘Vogue Tarot” and Astro section. Being able to read Italian would help !
    Mystic – You should defo be in the Aussie Version (interantional really).

  7. Speaking of Neptune, Pluto’s retrograding all over my natal Neptune. It’s like gardening while pissed off: “this is bllsht, this is bllsht, just bulldoze over it all, I can’t even, I simply CANNOT”, ripping plants out of the ground and flinging them over the shoulder.

    Lost my best friend to effed up gardening. Tarot says that it’s going to be okay, but it doesn’t feel it right now.

    • Sprouts can spring from even the most hacked off stump….

      I’m sure your bestie will understand your pain.

      Can you/should you apologise ? Even if it can’t fix your friendship, doing the right thing can help a little….

      • Apologised a trillion times. It’s just over. Promptly wrapped myself up in my blanket and had a sob.

          • Thank you. It’s been a really difficult time in my life – I am one of those people who loves to be with people, loves having a partnership, and now that my slate has been blanked, I feel a wee bit out of control and scared.

            (Also, my heart hurts, but come on…Pisces. We do that so well.)

            The cards keep pulling The Empress and other golden, glowing fertility/new beginnings/amazing loves cards. I’m just having a hard time bucking up.

            • Ooo Bright hanging in there, have faith :). I’m going through similar it’s like a little bit of hibernation. I’m same type of person by birth, large family, like noise & chaos of those closest to me. Its cyclical & maybe opportunity to think & create different but even better future. Sounds like yours will be abundant soon enough :).

              ps lol! LOVED your gardening while pissed off made me larf because I so get it!

  8. I think it’s great other shapes are being celebrated, however I still think some weird photoshopping or some madness is going on in the photo. One of the dead give-aways in someone’s weight is their face. None of these girls have a double chin. I think it’s been photoshopped off. Looks weird to me.

    • They’re just not that fat – if you check out the rest of the shoot, they’re about a 12/14. They just look plump compared with “Normal” models :D

      If you go to the Italian Vogue, the previous issue has Kristen McMenamy who is now almost 46 doing a swimsuit shoot and she looks painfully emaciated in comparison, but she isn’t – she’s just a completely different build;
      check it out:
      http://www.vogue.it/en/magazine/cover-story/2011/05/swimwear

      She was AMAZING in Pret A Porter, where she was the naked, pregnant bride at the end, if my memory serves me. And now once again, Italian Vogue is considered radical for using an OLD model. SHOCK !! With GREY hair !! :D

      One thing I find interesting about nudity is HOW MANY different shapes and sizes we all come in. Do check out Pret a Porter if you haven’t seen it – the final scene makes my point for me far better than I ever could.

      • That’s a silver wig as she is still a redhead and didn’t go white
        overnight.
        Shall watch the movie, thanx.

    • Size 12-14s don’t have double chins! Take a look around on the streets – these girls are just normal sized.

      HOWEVER, glad to see some right-sized femmes getting out there in the fashion press.

      • Not a true, double chin, but a softness to their chin part of their face that looks blobby and not angled. Something has been changed on the photo in that regard.

        • Without even looking at the photo, I can assure you that you are right, fox. I have a relative who works in New York City for an agency that does nothing but enhance pictures for the print media. She states that there is nothing you see in a woman’s magazine – I mean NOTHING – that has not been changed. So, regardless of the polarization of fat/skinny, it’s horrible that any woman is always having to look at an enhanced photo

  9. Wow, I love this shoot, but I gotta say…
    being that size and having such perfect proportions is just as rare as being naturally model thin!

    With the anorexic model types virtually anyone can get that way (although they probably will end up looking like crap — been there) with enough – erm – work. (deprivation) This is just straight up being blessed with amazing genes.

    These women have incredible bodies, gorgeous shape. But then again, I’m slender and athletic with an A cup and wanna look like Monica Bellucci. ^_^

    • Yah ! Modelling is more about proportion and fitting a stock size than weight per se.

      This is where something like the appallingly named “Does This Make Me Look Fat ?” by Leah Feldon comes in – its the most fabulous field guide to shape, proportion and length – far more comprehensive than anything Trinny and Susannah have brought out, although they do colour and accessories a lot better.

      Can anyone tell I LOVE clothes ?!? Fashion bores me – the modern stuff is rubbish – but STYLE ? J’adore !!! I’m a haunter of op-shops; a purchaser of quirky handbags; a wannabe tailorette… I can sew but just don’t have the time … sigh…

      Oh yes ! I WANT to BE Monica Bellucci. She’s amazing… A superb actress..

  10. I wonder how many Italian men went out and bought this issue just for themselves? Many I’m thinking ;)

  11. It may be a plus size Vogue issue, but looking at those extra pics it somehow doesn’t seem to be about the clothes? Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t they usually put more on their usual models?

    Yes, the girls are gorgeous, but this just seems to be shooting itself in the foot while missing the point.

    • As far as I can tell Italian Vogue has a LOT more casual nudity/boobies. I’ve been trawling their archives and its a lot more arty & less clothes orientated than the American/Australian/Uk Vogues…

  12. Three words for this trio of beauties… OH. MY. GOD! Check out the women on this site i stumbled accross. The camp of the saints. org scroll down and enjoy what in my opinion are some of the most beautiful women on earth. These guys have amazing good taste and they are “real”.

  13. Yeah nice that they’re real women, pity though they are still displayed as so many pounds of flesh for the taking.

  14. I was suprised to read that the models are ‘plus sized’. Agree with comment from Rache – these women are not the ‘norm’ for their size. I’m a natural size 8, always have been, am short with a small frame but have always had cellulite, a belly etc. It takes a lot of exercise for anyone of any size to look this smooth.

  15. Sheesh, Franca (i’m a Francesca, half Italian)and unless i’m tripping,
    looks much like me in face shape, bone structure,nose even, my eyes are
    not as deep set or quite as beautiful, sad to say, and she has curly hair to
    my straight as straight same length and looks like same colour. She could
    be my sister. Wish she WAS my sister!
    Strangley, it’s only Italians who recognise my ‘Italianess’.
    Aqua-Cap to my Sagg-Cap, and i bet those eyes are green too.
    Maybe if i ate more spaghetti, like 3 times a day, i might get to a size
    12 instead of 8, coz plump is GOOD when of an ‘age certain’.

  16. NOT before time!!

    may the followers pick up her lead. some crap newspaper today had a story re how young Botox as age prevention creates old faces later. heee—loooo.

    Vogue Italy reinstates a sense of beauty in the balance.

    be yourself is the new HOT!!

    • I have a bod much like these chicks, curvy but very much in proportion. I love this spread because it puts these women in the world of fashion. Growing up, I was always (and still) very attractive to men for all the wrong reasons, but always made to feel unfashionable by the cut of 90’s waif clothing in the era I grew up in. I have been, even at size 10, called plump, wobbly, in need of toning, by my skinnier friends. As I move towards early middle age, one thing I can say is that my body shape seems to age better, to bear less the imprint of children, than those of my friends who were fashionably 90’s thin. I think this spread is gorgeous, clothed or not, I relate to those girls, and lovely to see big tits in bras that actually fit and look good. I’ll bet that tis edition was bought by a lot of guys. The fashion industry can bang on about skinniness being beautiful as much as it wants, lots and lots of men tend to (loudly and visually – to me!) disagree.

      • and what I forgot to say above was that when I was in my teens and twenties, my body shape seems to inspire that ‘slut’ mentality from others. It doesn’t (and didn’t) matter what I wore, some of the ire I remember from that time still hurts – even my mother once said something to me along those lines. It’s lovely for me to see these women in the pages of Vogue – as something desirable and strong, not as something slutty. It’s hard to explain, but it still rankles, especially because I was so sexually naive long past any of my peers. It took me years to learn that what I had was beautiful.

        • That is a beautiful shape,SeaBird, bet you have a small waist as well.
          There was a bad joke when i was a teen when boys found out i was half Italian ‘which half’ they asked much to my embarrasment.

          Key word ‘boys’.

          I’m here to tell you middle age isn’t until you are 60. True.
          Then make sure all your lighting is peach toned. I use paint crayons
          mix of red, orange & yellow to achieve that warm glow :-)

        • Travelled very similar path Seabird, seemed like those closest & women were the worst. I never saw what I had until relatively recently. My first thought of this spread was I bet men bought this with glee.

        • if you’re talking about er- developing before others- hell yeah, been there, gone through that!
          it was pretty bad when bras didn’t exist in our little elementary school world. but then when i reached 7th grade it was all cool and now i get envy instead of snide comments.

    • Thanx for your compliment RockStar, after another look in the mirror
      perhaps it was wishful thinking:-)
      Tried botox about 3 times around the happiness lines on eyes. Twas wierd,
      the lines just go elsewhere ie sideways & lower AND they are amplified when
      it wears off!
      My reasoning is that the dollars can be invested in a glorious Armani suit,
      instead and you look a million dollars. So i spoil myself with Dior face
      marquillage (not the skin care) and nail polish. Much better use of funds.
      Was an article in the daily rag about 4 women and what they spend per annum
      on collagen, botox from $5000-14.000 in their 40’s. CowGirl & I both said ‘hasn’t
      done THEM any good’…hahaha. We both agreed it’s internal, mixed with the Happiness
      Kindness Factor that makes you glow.

      Italians Love Beauty as the Chinese Love Food, the Egyptians Mystery & Magic, the French Philosophy, the Greeks Mythology etc..
      x

  17. Sorry to trot out my Saturn/Venus conjunction, but this looked kind of like ’50’s soft porn. Isn’t Vogue about clothes?
    The girls are really pretty but I wasn’t interested in what they were wearing..and it wasn’t because I was distracted by their voluptuous forms.
    They just weren’t wearing anything much. Except what suspiciously looked like someone else’s coat.. Fur in Italy not an issue I guess.

    • Remember Mae West’s famous quote when asked about her fur coat?

      ‘I had to fuq a lot of animals to get this coat’

      The soft porn was to get the point across that breast don’t have to be ‘pert’
      and the nipples looking at the sky, i guess or that’s the way i figure it, so to
      speak :-)

      If women truly accepted that ALL men regard ALL women’s bodies as
      sexy & beautiful.
      They tell me that and that they wish women would realise it.

    • O.m.g thank you! I have held off this post as i have modelled extensively and i did not want to do an offbeat comment. But i think vogue/fashion IS about clothes, the girls are gorgeous but they did not put them in clothes!!!! That would have been way more revolutionary than the bullshit transgressive, smoking and fur sexy lingerie crap. I have not looked at the full pictorial in print (and i worship Vogue Italia, you will never see it all online) so reserve judgement but what is online seems like it is all lingerie.
      I would personally have rather seen one iconic ‘plus’ image on the cover and in
      amazing clothes but that is just mental old me.

  18. Beauty is a deepness that transcends skinny or large ! I am for a balance ! Personally I prefer a little thickness !