She Gave Me An Apple And It Was Red

Filed in Lilith

 

Michael Whelan

Bitch-Goddess-Dark-Moon Lilith is nearing Uranus & so this would seem like a brill topic to go all astro-bats-Jungian-run-with-the-Wolfie on, yes?

My points:

* An apple, when you slice it in half, has a pentagram in it.  Dan Brown & Da Vinci Code did wonders to make this fact tres well-known, even amongst skeptics.

* In the Biblical Genesis, Eve is enticed to eat an apple & thus brings Original Sin into the Equation. It was a Snake who dunnit. Or, says the Jewish bible, Lilith, the first wife of Adam.

* Snow White’s wicked stepmother tries to murder her with a poisoned red apple. Note also that in some of the stories she has a slutty/Black Swan of a sister: Rose Red. And, o.m.g the Norse Venus – Freya – famously slept with several dwarves to get her hand on the magical amber necklace of Brisingamen.

* Sundry fairy tales have evil beauties and/or rank old hags trying to tempt virginal maidens with the red apple.

Is it really just because of the pentagram shape in the middle?  Remember that Venus as the Morning Star is Lucifer – which means light-bearer.  Obviously it got turned by Christians into the demon character and yes i AM actually pre-menstrual.

Who wants to come over with some patchouli scented candles, raw super-foodie choc and a bucket of biodynamic Blue Devil Hoochie Juice to discuss Lilith with me?

Seriously – thoughts?  On the Red-Apple-Enticement-Evil-Woman-Lilith thing, not my time of the month lol.

The Goddess Freya Under An Apple Tree – Arthur Rackham

I went down to the river
To meet the widow
She gave me an apple
And it was red

I slept in her black arms
For a century
She wanted nothing in return
I gave her nothing in return

The ghost of her husband
Beautiful as a horse
Pulled up an apple cart
Full of millions of red apples for us
Full of millions of red apples for us

Cat Power

97 thoughts on “She Gave Me An Apple And It Was Red

  1. Wow! I will be right over , It seems like there will be some good healing happening Joy!!! Mystic

  2. I read a rather feminist book once all about the Goddess and the evil hypocrisies of patriarchal religions and it said that the word “apple” isn’t actually mentioned in the Bible. I looked it up and it’s true. It just says “fruit”, but never says apple. So it’s likely that the reference to an apple as being evil could have been added later and was never meant to imply that apples (or pentagrams?) were representative of evil or sin. Figs are mentioned by name, and if the Garden of Eden was supposed to be in the Middle East somewhere, then it seems likely that a fig tree would have been a better source for the “Tree of Knowledge”. I’m not even sure that apple trees are indigenous to the Middle East. Food for thought. No pun intended. 8O

    • apple trees are indigenous to Afghanistan and Khazakstan.

      ps I love the song. Cat Power covers the Bill Calahan (aka Smog) original. Look up his music if you haven’t heard it. There are lots of songs about horses. My favourite goes

      ‘ let me see the colts
      who will ruuuuun next year’

      ok so not so good in text – but anyway beautiful song.

  3. yeah. I’ll join you on a feminist rampage mystic babe, always up for that, love a solid rant/debate / fact finding mission on the feral disgustingness of the silty, slimy depths of (un)consciousness and juddgement that many loooove to heap on the ‘wicked’ (read: not doing what they’re ‘told’) females of the world. Can anyone say “projection”?

    anyway ranting again… overtired (reached new depths of disorganisation today, yoweee)

    And as for the virginal / apple thing, sure whatever, if society feels they have to place some sort of framework of judgement over what nature sees as a pretty normal continuum of existence. You don’t see cows or parrots or snakes getting off / judging the females over virginity or anything do you? Nope, just fuqing wierdo humans, as usual

    supposedly amazing, coveted, new territory, valuable, has not yet contributed to the competition’s gene pool by reproducing, nice target for perverts etc > “not virgin” = bla, garbage heap or something according to zealots
    anyway gotta go xxxx happy hoochie juicing and raw chocolate-ing

    • “You don’t see cows or parrots or snakes getting off / judging the females over virginity or anything do you? Nope, just fuqing wierdo humans, as usual … ”

      Too funny UP. Yep the whole sexist male/female crap gets so old after awhile dunnit?

      • ‘Rats are hero’s in Mozambique’. They are detecting land mines there
        (0ver 500.000 mines left over from war) as lighter than dogs & trained
        to sniff them out, therby saving thousands of peoples legs & arms not
        being blown off and enabling the country to then have their agriculture
        and investment back in the country.
        The Mozambiques have said ‘God sent the rats’ although it was a Belgian
        that came up with the idea from his love of the critters, started training huge
        local ones. The Belgian said his friends used to smirk at his rat-care, now they
        saving lives.

        Uummm about apples?
        Bit too xcited about the Rescue Dogs performing
        brilliantly in EarthQuake zone, finding people and the Mine dectecting Rats
        being regarded as hero’s. The Goddess of the Rat Temple in will be pleased.
        Her name starts with an M…………but then so many do.

        Weren’t golden apples thrown into the Ancient Greek Arena to stop a very fast
        woman runner from winning? What WAS that myth?

        • There was story of how the goddess of discord Eris, rolled a golden apple into a party to which she had not been invited. It was labelled “To the Fairest” and it caused a bit of a bitch fight between Athene, Hera and Aphrodite, thus bringing about the Trojan War.

      • sure does prowln, i’d love to think we’re beyond gender (in some senses) but hey. I suppose even I have my moments :\

  4. That sounds wonderful, since I’m also…well, I guess I’m just plain MSing right now. I remember when I was a kid and first heard the story of Adam and Eve–instead of being properly shamed and guilty, I thought, “Ooh, Eve could talk to snakes!”* And really, what are all these stories but evidence of men’s longstanding fear/jealousy of women’s inherent, magical connection to nature (well, that, and their apparent inability to take responsibility for their own actions! “The evil lady’s sexy sexiness made me do it!” Sure, dude.)?

    *First step in a long, fun journey towards lapsed Catholicism. My religious ed teachers shuddered when they saw me coming.

    • I was one of those kids too T! I always disputed everything in the Bible that didn’t make sense instead of quietly agreeing with the Sunday school teachers. Damnit, I didn’t want to color or make nativity scenes out of playdough, I wanted my questions answered! And yes, Eve was so much cooler because she could talk to snakes. ;)

      Btw, if you wiki “forbidden fruit” you get all sorts of different ideas on what the “fruit” could be.

      • Same here. The visiting minister stopped acknowledging my raised hand (age 9 or 10). I even pestered him after bible study class and he actually rolled his eyes! creep. He didn’t know how to (or didn’t want to) engage his brain and allow himself to think about my questions.

        Also PMSing, drinking veggie raw juice, and stewing on male domination vs. female superiority stuff. And finishing night with a cocktail that is sort of healthy (I tell myself) because I use fresh juice.

        As for Lilith, I didn’t know about her until I was an adult and could not believe that not only was all the sin of all the world heaped on Eve just for biting an apple or wanting to know stuff, but that the origination of the apple and the snake was yet again blamed on a female character, described almost like a true monster. Men did no wrong, apparently, and can always pass the buck to a female. Even so, it just goes to show how powerful we are:)

    • Love Cat Power!

      Why is it that men blame sexual indescretion on being seduced? Then their wife/gf blame the other woman too. Go to court and listen in on a day of injunction hearings and you’ll hear more cases of two women fighting over some skinny assed guy who has been screwing them both. But the women blame each other and not him.

      Why is the woman always the villan? Just sayin’ we can’t always blame the fairy tales.

      • Good question. Perhaps women don’t think the men has the ability to think or reason, but a woman does? lol!
        It’s kinda of an insult to a man isn’t it?
        Also, women should not intentionally pursue a married/taken man it’s against the rules against other woman. An unspoken rule of womanhood.

  5. Is it Rapunzel where the evil, ugly, old witch uses magic to make herself look young and beautiful? Interesting that age = evil in fairytales. (for women).
    I drank some BDHJ last night, not even that much, and have felt SO tired and crap all day. Had pho for lunch and even that did not help. BDHJ-free weekend for me.
    If someone could courier me the choc that would be ace though. Sofa-bound.

    • Nope, Rapunzel is about the girl with the really long hair who was trapped in a tower by an enchantress, as payment for sparing the life of her father, who trespassed into the enchantresses garden to steal radishes for one of his pregnant wife’s cravings. I saw a live action movie of it as a kid and have had a weird aversion to radishes ever since. 8O

        • Not sure, maybe it has something to do with the bulb of the fruit being underground and hidden away, like Rapunzel was hidden up in the tower? Or the fact that they’re red and symbolize the husband’s love for his wife? “Rapunzel” is actually a German word for a salad plant that has a crunchy root. In English it’s called Rampion, which I think are a kind of radish. It’s only because the Brothers Grimm wrote the story in German that her name remained Rapunzel. Rampion just doesn’t have the same ring to it, lol.

          • Only a German (speaking as a mother of 1/2 German babies and a son with rabid love of German language and German heavy metal) would name a beautiful child the equivalent of “Radish.”

            • Hehe. I have a German friend who has educated me about German heavy metal and the meaning behind some of Rammstein’s lyrics. Subtleties in the word play that you’d only catch if you knew German. He’s tried to teach me some German, but it’s not a language I find easy to grasp. Makes me feel stupid sometimes because his English is perfect and I only know enough German to order a pizza. :P

      • I do know that part, but I think there’s a sub story there with the witchy lady. It was in Tangled, so it must be true, right?

          • Haven’t seen Tangled, so can’t verify that one. There are different endings to the original story too though. The movie I saw of it as a kid was definitely creepy though, even as a kids movie.

          • I missed most of it. I tried to take my son and he failed to grasp the finer points of etiquette re movie-going, so we had to leave. It looked vaguely good though. (in comparison to other fare a 3 year old will watch). In my Brothers Grimm book, they were bitter greens, not radishes. It is a creepy story.

            • I’ve heard in other versions that it’s called “lamb’s lettuce” too. And all because a pregnant woman was craving a salad. Odd thing to crave, but then I guess lots of pregnancy cravings can be weird. I like the look of the radish, it’s a cute shape. I should probably try them. They’re supposed to be really easy to grow too.

  6. For sure Mystic! 8O

    Just so happens I have a bucket of biodynamic Blue Devil Hoochie Juice in the fridge. I’ll be over once I finished eating this apple that someone left on the table *bites apple* I see what you mean about the star thingy in the middle this apple *chews apple* wow it really is quite tast…

    *faints*

  7. Never mind the Bible … I just told the Virgo Next Door Neighbour to Get The Eff Out Of My Effing Face after he made yet another irritating, passive aggressive, bullshit filled, no-point remark. Also told the Virgo With Everything In Libra that he was a self obsessed twat. He better not expect me to save his sorry arse next time he collides into the wall he insists on running headlong into. Got no idea where my Lilith resides – somewhere cranky and not prepared to put up with any more stupid bloody bullshit from men I assume. And yep I’m premenstrual too ….

    • Lilith & Uranus in Libra … intewesting. I’m assuming an opposition? My inner femme rage is opposing the approaching Uranus in Aries male bollocks? Oh I don’t know …

      Curious about another thing Part of Fortune in Cap at 0 conjunct moon in Sagg both in the 7th. I don’t know what that indicates but it sounds kewl.

    • How to diffuse a passive-aggressive uptight Virgo act airy, flaky but friendly. Channel a friendly Gemini talkative, but keep the talk on other topics that are really positive.
      It will diffuse his anal retentive power.control trip.

      • too late … and not in any mood for diffusement. He’s pulled this kinda crap before and this is the last time.

        • Trust me I’ve been there- maybe he needed to be yelled a and put in his place. He’ll probably be sacred to fight back but cautious of passive-aggressive attacks.

  8. Maybe…your happiness comes from interacting with people in a business setting, consulting with them about a project or helping them meet their goals, which in turn gives you a sense of purpose and self importance that you may not have had growing up. Opportunities for these relationships could come from traveling or networking on an international forum. I think I remember that you’re a Sag Rising, so I’d say work that with the Moon in Sag and your open-minded optimism and visionary insights will draw people to you. You could also end up in a romantic relationship with a like-minded individual, someone who is excited by your new ideas and theories and will want to pursue them with you.

    ;) Just a brief attempt after reading a few articles on the web.

    • was that for me? Thanks Lauren … I do function well in a consulting setting being self employed. Actually I’m Gem rising … travel is really not my thing (so far). The main call to action these days appears to be about sorting the wheat from the chaff – the good people from the one’s that pretend to be good (or nice), either personally or professionally. I am getting a lot more ruthless …

  9. Sparse time to read all comments and reply now but have to mention: whilst on my way home today 1) noticed apples had ripened on the neighbours tree and stopped me in my tracks, literally, staring in awe at them, considering the 2 weeks I’ve been away in fruit tree time ( is there a more autistic time of the month?- if so am having it) and 2) whilst on my home this eve I saw a cat lying dead on the road. Stopped and carried it over to the curb and shut it’s eyes. It was still warm. Said a few thank-yous for it’s spirit and words for it’s owner’s spirit if they found it. Left it there and rode on thinking again about time. How everything comes down to dust on waves of spirals of time. And light catches the dust at times and lingers longer , creating some marvellous new form or melody or spawn.

    Lilith in 10 th trine chiron which is square mars. Getting in touch with my darker side is a lot more fun and useful since I let go of the preconceived judgements about what that could mean. :)

    • twinfish, i want to thank you for your kindness to that poor cat. In ’04 we lost our beloved 6 y o chocolate burmese boy – Henri, on the road. We found him laid out peacefully on the footpath (the only telling thing was the tyre mark over his midsection). Oh, i’m spilling tears just now remembering!

      My son’s kindy teacher said she drove past and saw him in the middle of the road at 7pm (she didn’t know he was ours) and we got home at 8pm and began the short search. So some kind soul had done what you did and i am forever grateful. Bless x

        • I wonder how your son felt about Henri dying on the road? There’s something incomprehensible about these most intelligent , adaptable , fast, intuitive creatures finding themselves fatally outdone by a metal machine. Just does not make sense.

          Ceres and Lillith in sagg 10th is pretty out there. No pulling the wool over your eyes, eh? lol.

          • I hadn’t thought about that aspect in that way before – lol. i’d always put that (no pullin wool) down to my Uranus/Merc/Pluto in Virgo.

            Yes very sad time losing Henri. But it brought up the idea of death and what it means – endless questions from both the 4 and 6 y o at the time.

        • I took another look my Lilith is Virgo in 10th House, not 11th as I first thought.
          Why do I have a vision of an uptight librarian wielding a ruler at chatty patrons? I really hope Lilith in Virgo isn’t that uptight, frumpy and bitchy!
          What the heck does Lilith do in the 10th House that’s positive besides criticizing people (employees, co-workers to death)?

  10. Avalon comes from a Celtic word for apple. It’s the place where Morgana rules as the head-girl, amongst the nine priestesses of healing.

    • oooh lovely, thanks Robur.
      I have Lillith conjunct N Node, Sun conjunct Uranus (adds a dash of masc energy I see as warrior woman take no prisoners) at the tail end of Virgo giving me a bit of the bitch goddess in regards to Gaia. All life is sacred and the patriarchal society has gone ape over the primal energy of ‘mine mine mine’ for far too long. We are all one, important each and every one of us, deserving of the basic right to exist with needs met, resources shared equally. Why do so many men forget they would not be sucking air on the planet if not for a woman. ? Why assume Mary the Essene crawled around awaiting the opportunity to grasp the hem and was not a feminine intellectual spiritual power in her own right, with her OWN ideas. ?
      Healing feminine energy is what this planet and its peoples are in need of; too long has the need to dominate and control others and the Earth been allowed free rein.

      • Avalon also has underworld ties to it, because the “Apple Isle” was referred to as The Summerland, where Celtic heros of myth like King Arthur went to die. It was supposed to be a land where it was always summer, fruit trees were always in bloom and fields produced wheat and grain without having to be plowed.

        Good time to start rereading “The Mists of Avalon”…or maybe just watch the dvd and listen to Loreena McKennitt, since the book is 800 pages long. :)

        • lol My copy was 1000 pages and I thought I would never get through it. Of course as soon as I finished it i wanted to read it again. Didn’t mind the dvd with Juliana Margulies and Angelica Huston.

          • Have you read any of the others, since Mists was a prequel? “The Forest House” is first and tells the story of a Roman priestess long before the time of Morgaine and Vivienne then “Lady of the Lake” is the story of Vivienne’s upbringing and rise to power. They’re not quite as long as Mists. ;)

            • No I haven’t. Are they good? I wasn’t sure but now you’ve got me curious again. :)

              BTW – I left you a message in the Plutoin Cap Book thread. :D

              • I saw it and replied! It’s so cool finding out these connections that people have in common on this site. :)

                I thought they were good, not quite as epic as Mists, but I’d say worth a read. If you’re like me and actually enjoy reading epic-like 800+ page books, then I can recommend another. “Memoirs of Cleopatra” by Margaret George. Some reviews say that it’s too detailed and the language too flowery, but I really enjoyed it and it pulls you right into her world. I knew how her story ended and I still cried all the way through the last few chapters! And instead of starting with her already being queen, like a lot of the movies do, this charts her life from the time she was a young girl…how she remembers her mother, how she got along with her sisters and the childhood friends she acquired. I think it’s longer than Mists though. I think it took me a whole summer to read it, lol.

                http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.detail?invid=10626567157&qwork=4290821&title=memoirs+of+cleopatra&qsort=&page=1

              • Thanks Lauren. I’ll check it out. I wonder how a reviewer can say something is too detailed? The more detail the better I say. I suppose as long as it’s done well. Maybe I’ll read it during the cold winter nights. :)

  11. No time people life has changed – entry/exit strategy ahoy and I’m dressed up to the nines – transitting lilith is opposing juno – this means divorce?

    Seeya x

  12. If i remember my Lillith is in Aqua…….sheesh, that’s a bit of a wimpy
    position for a Lillith, isn’t it? In a benevolent sign.
    I like the myth that she had to be on top for sex & not bonk like the ‘beasts’.

    Actually knew 2 women called Lillith, taken as nom de plumes.
    Yeah both flaming red hair & radical feminists, very 80’s.

    Maybe Chiron is Scorpio makes up for Lillith not being in a fire sign.

    • My Lilith is in Leo in the 7th house. I’ve read that Lilith in the 7th can represent a struggle between wanting commitment and being independent; between psychoanalysing yourself to figure out your flaws, but being too stubborn to make chances that would bring improvement and inevitably falling into the same self-destructing behaviors. Since Lilith is at the end of Leo, it means that old karmic baggage should be tossed away in order to accept the positive attributes of the following sign. So I guess for me this means that there is some Leo-related badness that I need to ditch so I can be ready for some Cancerian insights?

        • Just guessing here but maybe Lilith in Leo in the 7th is you demanding to be queen (and treated as such) in relationships but wanting a king beside you.

          • I’ll accept that. My ideal partner has always been someone who can be my equal, on the same wavelength as me and stand strong by my side.

    • omg Pegs! I could never think of Aqua as wimpy or purely benevolent – it’s almost insulting – lol. And i have nothing but Psyche in Aqua in my 12th house.

      I “heart” Aqua energy – they are the unpredictable maverick Uranian/Saturnian individuals – shit-stirrers, awakeners and the fighters for the collective; and yes can be aloof and bats too, but mostly in a good way (unless you are dating one). Sorry, i just can’t liken Aquas with weak goody-goodies; NEVER.

      • No darling, not Aqua’s being wimpy, meaning not a strong placement
        for a Lillith in an air sign. Love Aqua’s to bits.
        Now i’m happy with my Lillith thanks to you :-)
        ( i don’t get out enough)

  13. Then again there is the round red fruit that I grew up calling a chinese apple, another name for the pomegranate…which seems to me to be much more fitting as a temptation…all those ruby globules…all those running red juices and all the mess you make getting them out of their casing. Apples are way to crisp and clean and white and clear cut to be connected with temptation, sine or women’s wiles…too neat and sterile.

    • Pomegranates are inherent in the Pluto/Hades/Persephone myth.

      Whomever wrote the bible didn’t specify. Someone’s suggestion above was to google “forbidden fruit” – most interesting. Figs, “love apples” or tomatoes, apples amongst other fruit. Doesn’t matter what the forbidden fruit was it was all about the seductive evil of women. Fiction by the male powers that were.

      * I do however like the symbolism of the pentagram within the apple and also the connection between the fig and the female genitalia.

  14. I love apples but not as fond of these patriarchal myths. Most fruits are ovaries of the plants anyways. yeah!

    body is PMSing too…new moon will be soon…
    When I was young, I never noticed that we naturally bleed close to time of either new moon or full moon. It’s comforting now.

  15. one of my favorite pastimes is eating Pink Lady apples in public. Considering switching to a juicy red delicious…

  16. Question: How is Oscillating Lilith different from the other one and why choose one over another? I see the Lilith on astro.com that I can simply check and then the symbol appears on my chart. But then there is True or Black Moon Lilith that appears near the other one, but seems to be a different entity.

    Both of them are in Scorpio, which I like. And conjunct Neptune and my IC, which I have no idea how to read, except that I might have a strong Lilith role yet also have some confusion around it:D.

  17. I know I was born an Aries and have never felt inferior to anyone, but really, have any of you actually experienced any of this patriarchal domination, or is it just something that sounds nice to talk about? I firmly believe you are only weak if you allow yourself to be. And it wasn’t Christians who demonized Lucifer, that was the Jews. Christians adopting the Jewish myths took that one too.

    Apples are a fruit that kept well and were common to many fairy tale origin lands. Today, maybe virginal beauties would be tempted with hamburgers or pizza. That makes sense because they are poison and will turn you evil.

    • Uh, yes, I have. And I don’t know another woman who hasn’t. It doesn’t make US weak and inferior, it makes the delusional bastards who try to enforce dominance on us assholes.

  18. Lilith in Virgo 11th No wonder my friends think I am such an uptight bitch ‘cuz it must be true! ;)

    • everything from toothpaste to cars is being marketed with tits & ass , television advertising has reduced societies viewpoint of women in the media to the lowest common denominator, Sex Objects ONLY.
      It is an infuriating insult to my intelligence, and to women everywhere.

  19. My favorite quote about apples is from King Lear:

    “Men must endure their going hence, even as their coming hither; Ripeness is all.”

    Yes, it’s true that the quote by itsefl does not indicate that the “ripeness” is about ripe apples. In fact, apples are not mentioned anywhere in Lear, and there is no “fruit motif” either in the play.

    But I think Shakespeare was thinking about apples when he wrote “Ripeness is all” and this is why: apples are well-known as the fruit that drop like bombs as soon as they are ripe. (Unlike oranges, they don’t keep lingering on the tree.) It was an apple bonked Newton on the head and caused him to think about gravity.

    It’s also interesting that apples (associated with the tree of knowledge in Eden) are given to teachers as a token of appreciation. Are teachers our modern-day “witches”? Keepers of knowledge and frequently female– it’s a thought.

    • “It’s also interesting that apples (associated with the tree of knowledge in Eden) are given to teachers as a token of appreciation. Are teachers our modern-day “witches”? Keepers of knowledge and frequently female”.

      I LOVE this thought sagitta. :)

  20. I always think of that crone apple offering as like- the choice of life- take this, and you will become like me- you will live the life….. have the adventure….step down from the pedestal of purity and get dirty……

  21. ~I slept in her black arms
    For a century
    She wanted nothing in return
    I gave her nothing in return~

    This reminds me of the simplicity of being, being in the moment, without judgement of our experience.

    Think the pentegram is symbolic of spirit manifesting into physicality….The top of the pentegram is spirit, the lower four corners, the other elements.

    There is ‘temptation’ to taste the fruit….The fruit of ‘good and evil’ which is actually judgement/opinion/formulations of our experience which puts the brakes on that experience. Stepping too far outside of what was intended we become over focused on the ‘perceived’ and forget we are the perceiver.

    Shakti, the divine feminine energy flow provides us our reality (whereever that may be), but once stuck in physicality someone has to be blamed!!

    And so we are dense (literally….)

  22. I am going into that cave following that Apple. Juno currently in Virgo. Eve-the naive, lost in dangerous temptation.

  23. maybe it is just me, but perhaps the virgin/apple connexion is because when you take a slice out of an apple, or cut one in half, it looks like a vagina. So, the apple represents female sexuality, and by eating the apple, the virgin becomes sexually aware.

    the big thing that happened when adam and eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge was they discovered they were naked. and we all know what happens when two people get naked.

  24. “Tree Of Knowledge” – The Pursuit of Happiness

    He takes a bite of the apple
    And a vision appears
    He follows the light until the image is clear
    He sees her porcelain beauty
    Against another man’s skin
    He hears her moaning
    A way she hadn’t for him
    With grotesque fascination
    He watches until they fall still
    He burns with the knowledge of good and evil

    (Chorus)
    He feels like he’s falling, falling
    Out of grace and into knowledge

    He watches with dry eyes
    Eyes that have changed
    One final memory of the vision remains
    Her playful body enjoying the sweet taste of sin
    The dance of love that’s now foreign to him
    Day turns to night and night turns to day
    He puts the illusions of his childhood away
    With the new understanding he builds a world of his own
    Outside the garden he finds the will to go on

  25. I have the bitch goddess conjunct my moon in the 8th ( and I do love apples) so I would be happy to put in my 2 cents.

    The world has a major Madonna/whore complex. Why else would we get all these tales with sweet innocent virgins eating apples and all that crap? I should just marry a Scorpio Moon…they’re one of the few who don’t seem to care much about that stuff. As long as you have integrity, you’re fine.

    Secondly, if Im not mistaken, the pentagram has nothing to do with devil worshipping or hell. Overzealous twits who think everyone who practices anything besides looking at a cross made that up.

    • And the eating of the fruit = taking off the blinds of ignorance, to my POV anyways. If you’re fundamental you could just go with the Sunday School definition: disobeying God…bad.

      I’m not Anti-Christian, at all btw. I love Jesus Christ, he’s a true rebel. I just hate where religion has been taken nowadays.

  26. One thing I always loved about “the original sin” is the misconception that Adam and Eve were exiled for eating the apple. Verse 22, however, suggests that it was to stop them from eating of the Tree of Life as well and becoming immortal….

    22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever” — 23 therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken.

    …it’s funny what we’ll overlook for millenia of guilt.

  27. Hey Mystic, What signs do you think Adam, Eve and Lilith would be?

    Im think Eve a Libro/Pisces. Lilith a Scorp or Aries….

    I’m going Cancerian for Adam, ‘cos in Waites “The Lovers” major arcana he’s staring at Eve’s boobs. And we all know male cancerians, regardless of orientation, are tit men….

  28. What a juicy post and lots of juicy replies.

    lol about slutty sister Rose Red. I still have a children’s book about Snow White and Rose Red and I remember how I favoured Rose Red (she seemed spunkier). I’ve rarely heard her mentioned over the years though.

    *off to eat a juicy red apple*

  29. odd. Leafing through a book in the library today I found this… “Could the ‘Garden of Eden’ be the protective bubble of the space between atoms in which it is possible to taste all ‘fruit’, all options and possibilities, except for one ?” meaning here knowledge is “the state of actual physical entrapment in a physical universe” , goes on to point out that magnetic force fields are shaped exactly like an apple, that the snake of the tree may mean sine wave forms.
    hmmm…Interesting thought, fair warning the book is a little out there, called Grey Aliens by Nigel Kerner