Retro-Venus Thought Morsel Two

Filed in Venus Venusian

Dorothea Tanning

“Unrequited love, at that period of my life, the only kind I seemed capable of feeling. This caused me much pain, but in retrospect I had to see the advantages. It provided all the emotional jolts of the other kind without any of the risks, it did not interfere with my life, which, although meager, was mine and predictable, and it involved no decisions. In the world of stark physical reality it might call for the removal of my ill-fitting garments (in the dark or the bathroom, if possible: no woman wants a man to see her safety pins), but it left undisturbed metaphysical counterparts. My Plutonic vision of myself resembled an Egyptian mummy, a mysteriously wrapped object that might or might not fall into dust if uncovered. But unrequited love demanded no stripteases.”

Margaret Atwood, Hair Jewelery via Saturn Rising

Discussion Points:

* The advantages of unrequited love or even just fantasy crushes

* Great Stripteases/undressings of your past

* Margaret Atwood (she is a Gemini Rising Scorpio with Moon-Mars in Aquarius and often casts charts for her characters to aid in their creation and development) using the word “Plutonic” is kind of cool, yes?

* Is this evocative or what?

121 thoughts on “Retro-Venus Thought Morsel Two

    • I agree Steph. But then sometimes I think that all love affairs exist primarily in our own minds – in the conversations we run through in our heads before we have them (or after), in the possible futures, in the joining-of-the-dots.

      Sometimes I feel like, even when it’s returned, I’m always in love with a phantom; I’m always in love with a figment of my imagination. A projection of sorts. Because how can you ever really know somebody when people (and identity) are so fluid.

      And then other times I think everything I’ve just said above is total nonsense.

  1. Evokes unbearable pain for a Scorpio, that’s for sure. Reminds me of my love for the most elusive of Aquarians. And thought I was going to escape this Venus retro phase unfazed….. Ha!

  2. Unrequited love and fantasy crushes have their place in the quiet solitude of one’s mind just-before-falling-to-sleep. He was the last thought of my day for many years and while I don’t miss it, I think it was OK.

  3. Yep. I agree with Steph.
    There is nothing wrong with a little fantasy from time to time, but I like to actually have the thing.

  4. I am with all of you , The Unrequited Love = the Longing ,the intense High, the Intensity when you are with them. The Inspiration that they stimulate .
    I Mastered this Fleeting . The Rapture that Keeps one in Bondage.
    I am over it . I finally had to call her bluff . This Aquarian Beauty only wanted me when i was involved. I am glad I cut the cord . I do not miss it.
    I said to her once It seems like I just made all this up .That is how Brilliant she was to manipulate the energy into making me feel like a FOOL. You are right Mystic it was safe I was a coward by not confronting it. It was safe the only way I could have her. But she never saw my shadow , She Trusted me with hers but I could not go there because I felt like I was not good enough for her. I could not risk it. So it was SAFE this UN-REQUITED thing that dose not love . She was my MUSE !!! BUT NOT !!!! SHE WAS ,But not anymore

  5. Love the quote, unreq love certainly the safest kind of love. It’s very Enneagram Type 4, self-indulgent and Neptunian. Creatives often end up in that space..

  6. Ah that’s why I love Margaret Atwood – she casts charts!..never knew that. But unrequited love – massive learning experience good but uggghhh, never again…I learnt that lesson already thanks Saturn and Pluto

  7. Wow, that is amazing! I love that line…

    ‘but unrequited love demanded no stripteases.’

    I think unrequited love is the best & for that very reason! You don’t have to be anything to that person & it is totally whatever it is without any expectations! 8O

    Nothing opens your mind up like unrequited love… :D It certainly gets my imagination going & creativity soars… 8O

    I would never act upon it or expect anything, it isn’t fair on me or the other person.

    • I always thought this song was about unrequited love… even though I think he had penned it for his girlfriend, Joan Wasser when they couldn’t be together or something like that…

        • Love Tim & Jeff Buckley and Tim’s ‘Get on top of Me..’
          Sad they never really knew each other. Obvious Jeff had his dads music genes.
          Did you know Brian Ferry’s new release ‘Olympia’ covers Tim’s ‘Song to the Siren’? Beautifully done, reminiscent of Roxys’ Avalon.

  8. So I used to love literature, I get in moods about it, but I can’t even make myself read that paragraph – it just makes my brain sputter and ache. SKIP IT!

    I wonder about the astrology of enjoying oozey-goozey image-rich metaphorical literature. I’m aqua mercury – neptune’s been on it for while.

    OH! DUH! Mercury’s in Saggo. That’s it. I’m not reading that excerpt and I’m telling you about it. lmao.

  9. The quote sounds lovely but it’s a bit conceptual for me to understand. I don’t like unrequited anything. Seems so sad.

    I tend to get bored and unrequited longing turns to either forgetting about them, or extreme annoyance, very quickly if they don’t show interest in return.

    Just got booty-called by Piscean Love-Rat, presumably his spousal unit is unexpectedly out? I haven’t heard a squeak out of him for over 10 days and then a message as if nothing is wrong?

    Moral: if you don’t tend a scorpio’s garden, she will probably lie in wait for you with a flamethrower.

    • Booty call at 9.30am! You go girl. I ahven’t heard seen the Gentle Cap for 2 weeks so I’ll join you for a bit of flame throwing. I have moon in Scorp hope that lets me in the club. Sounds like fun.

    • Tati, standing by with a lighter, doll. Any day, any hour, any minute.

      Though I’m totally down with Team Pluto, honestly Venus in Leo ain’t digging unrequited anything either. ‘Tis an issue with me as my Kataka Sun is lovely for mirroring enhanced visions of peeps back to them, but after a while I grow flimsy in the silver.

      Yes, there are advantages.. unfortunately, those hide the awful truth of why such things are in fact advantages i.e. one’s own fear of commitment, the real mess relationships are, the mundane??? Mayhaps there is a time in one’s life where these things help rather than hinder.

      I however, am definitely on the hinder camp.

    • ha totally. I don’t do seconds act or periodic interests, utterly boring in intensity. bored married men are so embarrassing. usually their idea of erotic is the sneaking out of the house bit… As a negotiator of openness I find this concept tres weak, what bit of not returning my affections in some due time frame and not being able to run your show at home properly thought this was erotic?

      flamethrower.

  10. I love M Atwood, she is my “get out of depression” writer. I might have read Pay Back three times. Still, Penelopiad and the Tent are my favorites.

    My unrequited love was with the Scorp, it was the most painful experience to go through but made me recognize flaws and patterns in my relationships.

    Now and then an unrequited love is good to clean up garbage in your soul, to oil what is squeaking in your heart for it forces you to look deep inside (since the other party is a mere mirror). But it should have a shelf life and eventually lead to the best relationship you can have, the one with yourself.

    Falling in love following an unrequited love should be an interesting experience.

    • Quadrupled, I can tell you from experience – it’s wonderful!

      Sometimes not as exciting, especially when you if get to the “old-married’s” stage and you’re picking up each other’s laundry, but when you finally meet that someone who loves you back and accepts you for all you are, it’s fantastic….

      Good luck!

  11. WHY has she safety pins in her knickers? S&M prep?
    I like striptease.
    Problem with unrequited love is when you finally get it
    you don’t want it coz it destroys the fantasy & life’s
    longing for itself.

  12. I love a man who can “striptease’ me one layer at a time by using his intellect to dazzle and spark. My mind is the most erogenous zone…initially.
    I am not a superficial cupcake, more like a fine wine to be savored.
    Venus goes direct on my MC, interested to see what or who ? that brings…!

    • Timothy Leary said’ Intelligence is the greatest aphrodisiac’.
      So i wonder why some ‘tradies’ are sex on legs. (until you have
      to live with them i guess).
      Had a gorgeous girlfriend, a madam, actually who said ‘I’m tired of
      intellectual wankers’ & then took up with a Yugoslavian bouncer (who
      i told her was a centremeter up the evolutionary scale from an ape).
      No it didn’t work but she got the baby she wanted & lost most of
      her hard earned assets to him.

  13. That sounds familiar. I have Venus in the 12th and for the longest time I focused on these unrequited crushes and passions instead of making real connections.

    I think (for me anyway) unrequited love is convenient and safe, especially if you have a morbid fear of rejection. You can have the passion, the daydreams but never actually have to risk what would happen if you express it to that person. Reality never has to set in either so it can be so much more romantic too.

    So Neptunian!

    • I wonder how long venus takes to move through a house? Venus is in my twelth house at the mo, and i suspect it has something to do with my rich fantasy life at the expense of no real life romping or romance stuff. On the upside, it is a chance to do some deep soul work re relationship, sex, love etc and dream up some transformational life changes.

    • Totally agree with you about how it can be so much more romantic. I have natal Venus in the 12th too. I think this placement can make a person need a lot of space and freedom even as they find themselves needing to give of themselves without necessarily getting it back. It’s a 12th house/Piscean style of loving.

      Unrequited and fantasy love allow the lover a LOT of space and many opportunities to give without having to deal with the impact of the giving. This kind of combo can be hard to achieve in real life relationships and when I’m not feeling up to negotiating that, unrequited/fantasy love can be a great way to go.

      Of course, as with all things Neptunian, keeping the balance between the physical and the imaginative realities is key to this being a good experience and not a catastrophic one!

  14. Margaret Atwood’s my favourite author. Who doesn’t love a clever Canadian?

    I think she’s quite into astrology. If you read the Year of the Flood, one of her characters Ren is a Pisces (a sweet, drifting professional stripper!) and she really obviously ‘gets’ what being a Piscean is like :)

  15. I can only post this video and a lyrics snippet:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRJ-_oy18qM

    “It’s an old game, my love
    When you can’t have me, you want me
    Because you know that you’re not risking anything
    Intimacy is when we’re in the same place at the same time
    Dealing honestly with how we feel, and who we really are
    That’s what grown-ups do
    That is mature thinking”

  16. How is unrequited love fulfilling?? I am just going through the excrutiating pain of one, and it is soul draining. I am reminded of a quote from ‘Eat Pray Love’ that one of the subscribers put up on this site a few months ago – that soulmates are only meant to slip your soul bare, make you go through utter pain, really introduce you to yourself, and then they are gone – not meant to be lived with, or married.

    How many readers think this is true?

    • I think Gilbert is still stuck in some romantic rut. No, I don’t agree.

      Soul mates can be anyone who helps you grow your soul. Sometimes they’re beautiful experiences, sometimes they’re hellish. Rarely are they romantic relationships.

  17. As someone with way too much cardinal action in her chart, I find unrequited love a total pain in the ass. But as someone with a Venus Neptune square in her chart, I find myself doing the fantasy love thing anyway.

    Total, total pain in the ass.

  18. I see what she means by the advantages of unrequited love, but i am so done with it. it’s enough already. just like steph wrote in the first comment, give me the real shit.

  19. I’m not in it, not having it, not even vaguely thinking about unrequited anything right now but that is the most depressing thing I’ve read in days. It’s like it’s sucked the love I do have from me. The one that sounded like the guy had just had a hand job or was a repressed catholic was def preferable. It is a great advertisement for Mags Atwood tho, she is certainly evocative. I read handmaids tale ages ago and thought she was awesome I might get on down to the library and check her out again.

  20. Sadly, I think dissing soulmates is something people who have never met theirs do to comfort themselves. I’ve seen long-term couples who were meant for each other, are utterly in sync & share a private world, & it’s wonderful. They may go through ups & downs, but they are basically very happy to be together. I want what they have – even if I never find it, I’m not going to pretend that it doesn’t exist just to comfort myself.

    The truth is sometimes we’re just not that lucky & we don’t find the person who really fits with us. Not everyone wins the lottery. It sucks hugely, but not all of us get that kind of happiness & that’s just the way it is. We find other things to love about life & try not to be bitter about it. We can still love & lust and enjoy the people who cross our paths, even if they don’t embody what we most crave.

    I do think that when we ourselves are not healthy emotionally (have major unresolved issues, unhealed trauma, self-hatred, etc.), the people we think are our soul mates are actually just teachers along the way – sometimes extremely harsh ones. A lot depends on how clearly we are seeing the love object & it’s hard to see clearly through a mucked-up lens.

    So, unrequited love? Excruciating, terrible, lovely, poetic, miserable, draining, and potentially the purifying fire that burns away the excess & shows us what our cores are made of.

    (No, I don’t have anything in Scorp, in case you were wondering.)

    • It’s easy to be the outsider looking into a relationship and seeing that “warm fire” when we ourselves are “cold and alone” outside and over-fantasize how good it is. Maybe it looks great from the outside but they are unhappy or longing for something else in reality? We have no idea what their world is really like. It could be awesome or it could suck.

      I don’t think “soul mates” exist or “twin flames”. I think they are concepts people have invented to make us feel like garbage and to make us feel dissatisfied with our “ordinary relationships”, causing us to long for impossible things. It’s like the advertisments…. such an addictive fantasy…and we always want more. That being said, I do believe in possible past life involvements. But stories of “The One” can kiss my Saturn-in-Libra-starved-ass.

      • Fox, what I find really amusing is that I know from a previous post that you & I both have Libra Sun, Virgo Venus – and yet we could not be more different in our perspectives on love & soul mates.
        (You don’t have an Aries Moon by any chance, do you? Because that would just be freaky.)

        I will say that I’ve gotten a pretty good, long look at some of those relationships, and even with all the flaws & difficulties, they still seem pretty darn sweet to me. Might not be the ambrosia of the Gods, but it’s still a mouthwateringly succulent eclair, and they’re eating it & I’m not.

        • I have Saturn in the 7th house of Gemini and Chiron in the 5th house of Aries.
          I’m a Scorp Moon. Most of my love experiences have been bitter beyond all belief but I still believe in positive things if that makes any sense.

          I think part of my iciness in all of this is that there have been many relationships that I watched from the outside with secret envy and longing…only to find out later from those same people, once they got a divorce or whatever, they weren’t that happy. They just *looked* happy and they put on a good show for everybody else. I think after comforting enough people from these fallout relationships that I thought were da bomb, I think I just got realistic about my expectations regarding Mr. Right. Maybe Mr. Right-Enough is ok after all? idk. I’m still a student…still learning….same as you.

          But i have to say I admire your optimism and never-say-die-ism, must be the Aries Moon in you. :)

          • Fox – I have Saturn in the 7th house too!! Apparently it means that there is pulverising growing up to do through lessons after hard lessons in love, but Saturn, in the end, delivers. I have enormous faith in Saturn, I adore the old bloke absolutely to bits and pieces, much as I have been tormented by him as well. So persevere and keep the faith – Saturn delivers, I have absolute faith in that – whenever I remember that Saturn is working on this for me! I sometimes forget and lose myself into a spiral of negative self-talk and fear.

            Good luck! :-)) and keep the faith!

          • I kind of envy you your Scorpio moon, fox – the potential for transformation is so magnificent there.
            You’re right – my Aries moon will probably keep tripping along in optimism, it’s kind of my default mode & it saves me. But where your heart is could be so vastly different from where it is tomorrow or next week – the grand emotional journey. Epic. Oh, the places you’ll go! :D

      • yeh i kinda agree with you foxy… I think they are just concepts too rather than reality… i also prescribe to the experience that I think we can have many soul mates, and they are not necessarily the intimate romanctic sexual ones… they can be, and i mean soul mates, which is just a name for a strong connection with someone, sometimes these connections have a feeling of always having known each other, or there is an incredible feeling of belonging with that person or with each other. I have also had, what could be interpreted as past life experiences with people who I was deeply connected to, and while i dont bang on about that or harbour interest in bringin up past life, it is quite spectacular when information is received about past connections. I suspect we could also be deeply connected to ANYONE, give the right circumstances, and this seperation we feel is possibly just an illusion.

        • sorry dosnt make complete sense… i meant to say *they can be* many different types of relationship outside of the typical romantic love relationship.

      • Thanks, UP Virgo. :)
        This has been a really interesting thread for me this evening. I feel like I’m getting some new clarity on things through the back & forth of the comments here.

  21. hey Odette – love what you have written – the purifying fire bit especially. I kno what you mean – I have seen perfect fit couples too – and its what I long for as well. Also agree weathergirl – rarely are they romantic relationships. I don’t pretend that soulmateship doesn’t exist – more that, they are probably the purifying fire types – and that you can only play with fire for so long.

    One of my single friends texted me recently – “I miss somebody constantly. I don’t even know who that somebody is!”

    In Islamic faith – I am not Islamic, but I love this thought – that a partner completes you and helps you complete your faith. Marriage is an important step towards self-realisation and realising the Divine. Longing for him is also a longing for Him.

    • Thanks, Hyacinth. :)
      My only soulmate so far has been platonic, so I think you & weathergirl probably have a point. I’ve always felt very lucky to have her in my life (although admittedly sometimes worried that we only get one soulmate per lifetime – & I got mine as a friend, so I won’t ever get one who’s a lover).

      re:Marriage being an important step towards self-realization… I’ve often heard that therapists believe we learn most about ourselves, learn what we need to in order to grow, through the sometimes difficult work of relationships. This feels true to me. And the times I’ve been really in love in that, “he completes me” way (I know some of you just cringed. Whatever. ;) ) it has felt like reaching for something more powerful & just… more… than the reality I am in.

    • That whole soul mate thing is weird to me. People say it about me and the aqua when they meet us and I always wonder what it is they see? You can have a great love but life still goes churning on in all its madness. It’s not like the world stands still for the people in love. It’s great to have someone to hang with in the long term and who knows you better than anyone else – an interpreter of sorts LOL but you’ve still gotta be the singular individual who is growing and changing within that thing you make together as well. When I hear the words soul mate it always sounds so final to me – like well that’s it, I’ve ticked that box, now my souls hooked up everything will be sweet. Like it’s on the list of 100 things you have to do before you die or something. Some kind of made up marketing ploy to sell something.

      I do however see the logic in Hyacinth’s comment – just as long as there’s a flipside to it and the longing for her is a longing for HER is in there as well ; o) That faith had a shitload of astrology going on in the early years (that’s where the arabic parts come from amongst other things) and I guess they would do what the hindu’s do and have people matched for their charts. So together they are able to surmount life issues that separately they would not. Maybe that’s what having a soul mate is really all about – having a great synastry with someone? Which is why it’s maybe good to know yourself and work on your own astro glitches so you’re ready for the haute version if and when the synastry happens? and if it doesn’t happen at least you feel better about the world as an individual and have a better life?

      • “Which is why it’s maybe good to know yourself and work on your own astro glitches so you’re ready for the haute version if and when the synastry happens? and if it doesn’t happen at least you feel better about the world as an individual and have a better life?”

        Yes!

      • well said. and its good from someone in that kind of relationship, I don’t believe in soulmates as a singular thing either. neptune and co will give you soul in synastry. pluto and NN for fatedness. This comes back to my whole theory of people seeing themselves as halves looking for another half.

    • Theres’ a Dar Williams song – And I’ll miss you, till I meet you…. thats the song that can crack me in the right mood.

      I’m missing him…. I hope I meet him… Soon

  22. I hope I wasn’t perceived as “dissing” the soulmate concept. I just find many people seeking it as the curative for what they should be seeking within themselves. The pain is often the “purifying fire” of burning away illusions.

    Hyacinth, I think your friend is perfectly describing the longing for what some people call the “Twin Flame”.

    Robert Wilkinson, a well respected astrologer I know MM reads, sets it out here in this article:

    “Our Soul Mates are many. We will dance with many sentient Beings who are our friends and lovers across time. Hopefully we learn lots about conditional and unconditional love from all of them. We can always find the greater love we seek, but we also must have a plan and patience as we move through the various changes and lessons.

    Now to the heart of the matter. While friends, help mates, and Soul Mates are many, there is only One Twin Flame. The Twin Flame is your “other half” you were split from at the beginning of human individuation 3 million years ago.

    I believe it is safe to say that our Twin Flame is someone who will show up initially as a friend, help mate, or even a Soul Mate, but be much greater than any of these. Our Twin Flame will be a genuine help to us, a friend who we will spontaneously love and whose company we will enjoy.

    This is a useful signpost. Basically, if they’re not our friend, if there isn’t a healthy affection, reserve, and respect so we can dance separately and together over time and through various experiences, then they’re not our Twin Flame.”

    • Hi, weathergirl.
      I worried you’d think I was aiming that specifically at you (“dissing” soulmates) – I definitely wasn’t! It was a general reaction to so many people I’ve heard talk cynically about love & relationships, talk like we can compartmentalize all that heart and passion & mystery into some safe place, write the scripts ahead of time so we don’t get hurt or confused or bathed in fire.

      I was actually one of those people for a long time, got horribly, shatteringly hurt by my first love, decided to be practical & sensible & aimed for years for relationships that were “healthy” rather than transcendent, found some very nice boyfriends, did what I was supposed to. But I just couldn’t marry any of them when it came down to it because my soul craving wasn’t being met. I don’t regret those relationships at all, but if it’s a choice between settling for someone who I just feel an amiable affection for or being alone, I’ll choose alone because marriage is too hard to embark on it w/o some sense of the transcendent at the root.

      Anyhow, that’s my understanding of things now. May change. :)

      • No offense taken, but as this is a such a manipulated concept –soulmates, I thought I’d clarify my thoughts.

        Completely agree with you about the human tendency to script our romances and hide all the mystery and passion into tidy compartments of false expectations.

        Not above it. Done it.

  23. My soul mate was a lover. According to my therapist, we inherit our parents marriages, and it becomes a good thing when we make it work for us, instead of against us. We are both seeing the same therapist, we see the wisdom in what he says and it still has not worked for us. But – the self-realisation has been more hardhitting for me than any other my previous relationships, precisely because the parental template fit is so perfect. This is what makes the soulmateship a complete and unmitigated nightmare, and yet, also full of potential.

    But we broke up and now he is sleeping with multiple partners. Soul mate or not, I can’t go back to that now. The cold truth is, I am deathly afraid I will – who would have thought, cool independent me! – but I believe that I should be the end of the sexual line in a partnership – and yet, I am afraid that I will weaken and go against what I think.

    So weathergirl – does this mean he was probably my Soulmate but not my Twin Flame?? Cos there is affection but unhealthy!!!

    • Does this relationship need a title? I ask that gently because I personally don’t think there’s an exam to pass or a position to qualify for here.

      Soulmates do grow us. I’ve worked alongside soulmates and sometimes it was a bit like two stones rubbing each other smooth –it was work. Good work, but work. I absolutely believe my daughter is a soulmate. Hella lot of work, but she’s bringing me ’round!

      I’m also in Year of the Fox’s camp with a wariness of attaching too much meaning to titles. Don’t drown yourself in dogma.

      You know you can’t follow your “soulmate’s” interest in multiple partners. You learned something about your soul you won’t sell out. Cool. Maybe in a different time that would not have been your dealbreaker. But this time it is. ANYONE who drags you down –no matter who you think they are– aren’t worth your energy. That affection stuff mixed with the unhealthy stuff is a bitter, bittersweet brew.

      I’m not on the hunt for my Twin Flame. If I find him/her, that’s excellent. Probably the best way for me to recognize my Twin (if I ever do) is to set myself to my highest vibration and let ‘er rip. Twin Flame will recognize my Bat Signal.

      But I VERY much subscribe to Whatevs school of thought re: special people, synastry and working out your life with awareness –which is why good astrologers are fantastic help.

      • “I’m not on the hunt for my Twin Flame. If I find him/her, that’s excellent. Probably the best way for me to recognize my Twin (if I ever do) is to set myself to my highest vibration and let ‘er rip. Twin Flame will recognize my Bat Signal.”

        LOVE that. Agree with that wholeheartedly.
        It usually does come down to manifesting our best selves & then seeing who knocks on the door to the bat cave. If you’re using love to avoid the difficult work of manifesting your highest vibration, then the bat signal gets all mucked up & you end up with the joker knocking on your door.
        (Sorry, loved the metaphor too much to resist. ;) )

      • Agree too.
        Since you attract to your life who you need at that time to learn / see whatever …..

        And about the time you are completely happy with yourself see what is offered then – sounds good.

        Meanwhile fantasy crushes are good for playing out and practicing scenarios in your mind, when you say and do exactly what you wish you would in life buut never would or never get the chance ;)

  24. i agree with you, hey, Odette. I have never had this sense of transcendnece before as I do with the runaway soulmate. This could still work but I am hesitating so much because I am too wary of yet another round of the cycle of pain and agony. I also think it will be too hard for me now to commit to something else without this sense of transcendence.

    Maybe there are several soul mates – and at the stage of optimal maturity, we can finally stay with the one of the soulmates we meet!

    • Hyacinth, that sounds so hard. I would not presume to advise you – only will say that sometimes those primal parental parallels give the illusion of a meant-to-be connection, but turn out in the end to be a learning experience only.
      I think weather girl offered a really useful marker: “Basically, if they’re not our friend, if there isn’t a healthy affection, reserve, and respect so we can dance separately and together over time and through various experiences, then they’re not our Twin Flame.”

      Another thought about transcendence & soul mates – if a relationship is emotionally (or God forbid, physically) abusive, all bets are off & you get away & stay away, no matter if it tears your heart out slowly with tweezers to do that.

    • ooh Hyacinth – whether or not we “inherit our parent’s marriages” – what self respecting therapist would make such a static self defeating statement. Obviously as children we “live” our parents’ partnership but “inherit” ?? Fuq, wtf are we in therapy for, to explore and ultimately change such limiting constructs. I’d be challenging and/or giving yr therapist the flick.

      Soz, i know this is one tiny aspect of yr comments re soulmates but bad therapy really shits me – has a lot to answer for imo.

  25. Interesting …

    Yesterday I had an energy healing – first time I’ve had one quite like this but basically the reader/healer person said that on an energetic or etheric level I was wearing both a band of poverty and a chastity belt. Apparently I have taken vows of both chastity and poverty in previous lives that have carried over into subsequent incarnations and needed to be rescinded in order to clear the blocks they have created in this life.

    Now I’m not sure what my belief is around all that sort of stuff BUT, I did resonate strongly with her description of how these blocks have manifested throughout my life in terms of problems with creating abundance and the experience of true intimacy in relationships.

    I used to be quite the fantasist and “unrequited love” addict – which I never quite understood as I found it neither productive nor satisfying. In this light it makes sense that this would have been the only way I could experience the kind of connection I craved. Funnily enough, through my spiritual work, the need to obsess and fantasise was cleared some time ago and I haven’t felt the need to dive into a fantastical crush on anybody in a long time. Will be interesting to see what develops and/or changes as a result of this new round of clearings though!

    • Wow. That’s fantastic, prowlin’! Have you read up on Theta Clearing? Sounds very much like this, but uses muscle testing to ID subconscious beliefs.

      • Hey weathergirl – I’ve had a Theta style clearing in the past, however the practitioner was a bit of a novice and my blocks are actually quite “welded in” – it’s taken someone with a very well developed energy channelling ability to really create the shifts I was looking for. However it’s only time that will tell huh? .. will keep you posted :)

        • Oo. Please, do.

          I got a big “hit” on “Wealthy people are jealous.” As I’ve spent next to no time around wealthy people to hold a strong feeling about this, I was pretty sure it came from a different lifetime. And yes, it did.

    • Wow PC

      That is a huge thing to clear but a good life and time to do so.
      I have heard that alot of us carry this as we have taken vows of service and poverty in many other lives and they are really stuck tight.
      The poverty conciousness that we carry often comes from this.
      I would love to hear if you have any progress with this. I have been working on shifting all that past light imprinting too, but slowly through affirmations, meditations, choices etc – Small baby steps though would love to hear of tricks to giant leaps!!

      • Apparently you can do it yourself Hippychic … depends on what resonates with you re the timing – but quite often the ones that have taken these vows did so during very rough times in the development of human consciousness and risked their lives either via – being the persecuted one, loving the persecuted one or witnessing the persecuted one.

        Personally I needed outside help as mine was so core/fear based that it wouldn’t budge as I had too much fear to let it go? When I did that energy clearing basically all I did was bawl my eyes out! She did the rest. Can you see how you can’t quite be in those two places at once? That’s why we need others yes? :)

        • Thats great that you cried it out – awesome release.
          Can’t wait to hear what wonderful things you attract into your life after clearing some blockage out – Keep your thoughts positive based, you are probably super energy charged after that!!

          Will try some of that but I have done heaps of energy work myself and think also I neeed help – but I don’t really like getting it as it is very private and FULL on as you know.

          Bless you for being so brave.

    • Hey Prowln, that’s very interesting! Glad you are getting some help, so speeds things up I find. (Have a couple of Aqua psychic friends, they hate asking for help which I think is sometimes a shame). Choosing someone to work on this stuff is always the issue.
      If it doesn’t make you uncomfortable I would be interested to know of someone in this line of work also. I am in Melbs, but would love to know of someone trustworthy. I am ‘psychic-less’ currently and I feel at a pretty low point energetically atm.

      Hope you are crackling with new found energy! Nothing like getting rid of earthly vows for that I suppose? Really curious to know how you feel over the next while!!! Good luck :)

      • You’ll love her Andromeda! … she’s a Saggo but with a virgo moon (of course) and a stellum of scorpio. Complete non wafty wafty bullshit – totally to the point and down to earth. She’s not psychic as such, more an energy worker/healer type.

        ermmm … how have I felt? LIKE SHIT .. emo to the max, random bawling and sorrow. But you know how it is when we release this stuff at first – never pleasant (ego has a spazz). And we went deep. Coz I asked! I’ve been through this before and it takes awhile to integrate. Will take a coupla weeks at least is my feeling. I can ask if she works remotely for you?

        In the meantime check out this blog … http://www.colettebaronreid.com/ she writes some beautiful stuff and gives free online meditations and healings that are damn powerful!

        • OH cool, I love that she is more healing oriented and less psychic babble-puff for it’s own sake.
          Now, wait a minute, you live in the States? Seriously? All this time I thought you were a Sydney-sider?! :)

          She seems very well qualified and looks like she just can’t help being fascinated in everything she’s doing with that brilliant astro!
          I haven’t had time to take a proper look, but thanks for the link and I’d be really interested to know if she works remotely.

          Did you see her in person then? What’s she like?

          • oops .. didn’t explain myself properly. I’m actually in Perth, so yes still “Aussie” … the Saggo healer also in Perth.

            Colette is in the US and just found her blog recently – dug her insights and some of her online meditations and thought you’d be interested – but no never met her personally.

            Still following up on the remote healing thing for you … :)

            • Thank God, otherwise the vibing would have been so confusing. You do have a very distinct sense of humour that I can’t imagine an American employing!

              Oh thanks so much for asking for me, that’s lovely of you!

              I found the Collette site really interesting, Xx.

  26. i love Margaret Atwood and Dorothea Tanning, nice choices mystic. and apt subject matter for the now, for the ass end of venus retro, and for me anyways. theres a great book called love sick by frank tallis that includes content about “erotomania” (and de clerambaults syndrome) – or a delusion of love, a disturbance of emotional attachment rather than sexual desire. psychoanalysts have suggested the fundamental cause of erotomania is fear of sexual union, the afflicted individual chooses an impossible lover which makes the choice entirely safe, sex is unlikely so the erotomaniac is free to indulge in fantasies of romantic love without ever incurring genuine intimacy. love sick is a great read, very well written.

    for me after my heart is broken i like to have a sabbatical of celibacy, is a pattern i have fallen into. to mend, to focus on self and such. but it can leave the romantic imagination wanting. i was stoked to discover the term erotomaniac as it explained my romantic imaginatory obsessions in those inbetween times. but theres only so long one can suffice on illusion and imagination before a consuming frustration and longing for the real thing arises. thats where i’m at right now. i think its healthy tho, in all that imaginative exploration one processes and devises what they want and deserve in the real world whenst ready holistically to return to the game

  27. Perfect in every way.

    I’m constantly unrequited, mostly because I have a forcefield of protectiveness nobody gets a chance or would even know how hard this Scorpio can pine. Also, I have Moon conjunct Neptune, so fantasies are easier for me, both being the fantasy and putting my crushes on a pedestal. Lastly super amounts of Libra + Sag makes me an overly romantic commitment phobe, constantly pulled between the need to merge and the need to run. Boring now I’m 30, time to get my Saturn on and learn how to open up. I don’t remember the last time someone undressed me properly, recently I came close with a lady who makes me feel understood in a way I thought impossible, an actual soulmate. Oh and a guy this summer whose NN is all over my chart who made me feel happy (I’m never happy with other people, always conflicted) for 72 hours, that was far out but he would have no idea because inevitably I acted like I didn’t give a shit.

  28. Charley, ever call up the summer guy & try another 3-day – or even just a single evening – outing? You don’t have to give away the whole farm, just maybe try to wiggle out of your adore/distance pattern one small move at a time. Same with the soulmate lady – no need to tell her the impact she had on you right away. Just showing up & then showing up again can get the point across w/o binding you to anything.
    I always think of the father in the film Contact when something seems overwhelming: “small movies, Ellie, small moves.”
    (Apologies if I’m vastly missing the mark – I’m trying to read between the lines & be helpful. :))

    • No, you’re on the mark. With the lady it’s so easy, I tell her all the time, we’re both in it and it’s magic. With the guy, I just won’t. No matter how much I might want to, my desire to leave it as a fantasy and not ruin it with reality or rejection is too high. Too scared :( but I’m trying to learn, so maybe from now on I will do like you say, tiny steps and less being cool/running away because there is deffo a limit!!

    • I needed this advice, too, Odette. Not for me, but for someone I care for. No big hot romance, but someone who is very much like Charley.

      Good luck with your North Node, Charley. :0)

  29. Odette and weathergirl – both your posts brought tears to my eyes. Really. Big bigg huggs, my dear friends, thank you so much. It has been bloody hard, a hard two years and it is hard to be that way for 2 years without having a meltdown. But your posts are bingo – an emotionally abusive relationship, even from a “soulmate” is a dealbreaker, no deal. And lol – yes, weathergirl, I am a dogma/label person, hey! I just crave the structure that label brings, the safety and security of such labelling. You are right though, I need to learn to let go.

    What bothers me greatly that I am afraid I am becoming bitter. And jealous of other people’s happiness. Me, the girl who used to leap up at joy and shriek with happiness at the mention of a friend’s wedding. I am only 30 but recently been meeting a lot of people who have been with the same partner since they were 18 or even 15, and I am so unhappy!! Yesterday I came across a couple with such incredible sexual energy after 16 years of marriage that I could not stop staring!! The truth is, I am incredibly happy for them, and also incredibly fearful of what my own future holds (or doesn’t hold) for me.

    I know this sounds sickeningly self-pitying. But I am afraid of trusting and just afraid. I long to “complete my faith” as it were – I long for Him as I do for him (and yep, the flipside applies as applicable, lol!)

    • Hyacinth, many hugs back to you. What you are going through sounds INCREDIBLY hard.
      You don’t sound self-pitying at all, you sound like you are really honestly trying to find the path through the dark forest, and you’re scared of where you might end up.
      Your emotional honesty is a strength – folks who can’t admit to the pain they’re in end up horribly emotionally constipated & that can block any real healing or growth.

      Re: becoming bitter. You’re in the thick of pain & recovery right now, so maybe don’t look at what you’re feeling as an indication of what you’ll be feeling forever. It’s OK to move through a period of bitterness, jealousy, rage, resentment – all of that stuff – as long as you don’t get forever stuck in it. And it doesn’t sound like you will.

      And yes, please run like the wind from any kind of abuse & stay far away. A relationship laced with abuse can never meet any soul needs, but it can be addictive. The worst thing about it is, it degrades our best selves & makes us less & less able to draw to us the people we really *should* have in our life.

      More hugs & a transformation blessing to you. :)

      • I echo every word Odette shared.

        Have you had a Cosmic Consult with MM? Sounds like you’d could use a proper plan, Stan. The beauty of astrology (amongst many beauties) is you know “this too shall pass” –and WHEN it will pass! LOL. Having finally passed through the Straights of Hell, I know.

        Hold tight and hold yourself high!!

  30. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Odette, you are marvellous, just the sort of girlfriend every girl needs! Thank you for being my blessing today! Whew – yes – the idea is to keep the faith and persevere, isn’t it. I know that one of my major tasks in living a good life is to be conscious of my addictions to pain. It is addictive, exactly as you say! I love the Oracle on this site, but I use it about 10 times a day. Incredibly, it is pretty accurate though sometimes it gives different advise, as it will I suppose, given how much I over-use it!

    Any thoughts on the Oracle and how best to use it? How many people are devoted users of it? :-D

    • I love MM’s Oracle. It’s classy and good fun. But I’m into all kinds of “oracles”: tarot, oracle cards, the IChing.

      IChing is best for its depth and breadth, but requires a bit of patience and a willingness to find a good translation. I recommend the new translation that Hillary Barret’s put out.

      All oracles can get fuzzy if you use them multiple times a day. Sometimes they just turn into echo chambers. I know; I’ve done the obsessive casting bit for…uhm…a couple of years now. It’s a good sign you don’t know shit but you’re really trying to control all the shit and it’s time to back off, breathe, and have a go at just living life for a bit. :-)

      The ‘Ching has been blunt with me about this at times, which is why I love it. “This isn’t your business.” “Back off.” “Get back to your own life.” “Chill.” Of course some personalities don’t need this sort of bluntness. I need a brick to the head before I get a lesson!

      How about keeping an Oracle Journal? You HAVE to write down every question –makes you recognize how many times you’ve asked the same question and how often you ask. And a bonus –you remember the answers! You can carry them around with you, cherish them and sneak sweet kisses to your favorites. ;-)

      • And often it is the way you phrase the questions.
        Ask the right question you get the right answer or you
        may get ‘youthful folly’.

        Re ‘happy couples’, have seen 3 wholesome relationships in my entire life
        = 6 decades. Except for one couple in their late 20′s early 30′s, the other 2 were
        in their 40′s. And one of those were Tantric teachers!
        Wholesome meaning they have become MORE from being together not less.
        And in each case none of them ‘settled for less’.

        My father & mother never married ANYONE, neither have I.
        My first teenage love (5 year duration) has not married or had children,
        neither have I. He suffered Virgoan guilt for a while thinking it was his fault
        (male ego), maybe it was, as message received ‘men cannot be faithful’.

        So what happens much later in life, fall & fall’s the word, for a man just like
        my father, a player who didn’t marry the woman he potted with no contact
        with the resulting daughter, same colouring, eyes, hair, height & tres sexy as
        involved plus involved with ‘law ‘n order’, who abandons without known cause.
        Bighuge lessons…yeah about what exactly? Message received ‘men have
        no honour’
        Have been craving during this Venus retro to tell Butch just what i think of
        his MO & WHY.
        During my nanny-nap cum meditation yesterday, i remembered my first
        thought when the psychologist, to whom my mother sent me to inform me
        of sex (she couldn’t do it) when 8 years old, was ‘how dare he do that to my mother’.
        What a fuqing flashback! Complete understanding of how the mother & father’s
        relationship is passed on. Understanding of how i could love Butch but have no
        respect for him & why i want to tell him what a prick he is. My father died at 38 years old
        & Mother’s (also dead-ed) B-day today, so explains the deep thought.

        Hence in my 40′s figured if sex can so harm (std’s/hiv’s) so can it cure, so we
        cure like with like by practising some tantric techniques via Margot Anand via Osho.
        But that is probably also a result of loaded 8th house & meeting a beautiful hetro man
        in the islands of Love, who contacted hiv+ from a mid-age woman after being celibate for
        18 months.
        So with Butch we have a meeting of the sacred & the profane.
        Apologies for length but after reading all the above about love & relationships,
        i bared my soul……gulp.

  31. Awww, Hyacinth, I’m glad it helped. :) I have some really great friends who prop me up when I needed it (too often), so it’s nice to pass that energy along.

    My personal experience with the Oracle was that it got less useful the more often I used it. If I was modest in my demands, it was wicked accurate, but if I used it daily or several times a day, it got pretty random.
    Others may have a different take. (It would also be fun to know how use of the Oracle corresponds to Sun/Moon/etc. signs.)

  32. Hmm there must be some kind of high profile astro going on with Margaret Atwood at the moment …Handmaids Tale had a big re-review by the BBC just this week.

    Maybe retro Venus is prominent in her chart (returning to a past art form?) I didn’t realise when she wrote the Handmaids Tale she had lived extensively in both Russia and the Middle East

    • I actually find her quite revoltingly bitchy (perhaps it was her day/genre) and terribly anti her own sex. Admittedly there is a certain class of women who you wouldn’t trust with a plastic cup but she’s a bit typical of the Scorpio type woman who can’t stand other women and paints all male characters as hapless twats with no self determination. I remember reading The Robber Bride and feeling horribly depressed. I’m not a fan of Atwood … she’s old skool feminism and crankyism that has had it’s day. The new feminist bonds with her fellow femmes and refuses to kowtow to stupid biological constraints that force her to compete.

      • You should hear her orate! It’s pretty scary! I thought I was a man at first and it was so terribly cold – kind of heartless, even though I guess the material was (her book) but it was even more chilling listening to her read it.
        I do think it is an era thing, theres another book the something room same time (I think) which I found just as blasé and cold in it’s character handling.

  33. Love, love , love that link…. Saturn Rising….

    Interesting point, PC.

    I never “got” MA- even though she is hugely promoted in school here – being Canadian….
    I always felt there was this undercurrent of something I din’t like- hatred, toughness, obtuseness, something….

    She has a “playing with the big boys” status-lifestyle-power dynamic thingy.

    • BSA, didn’t know you were in Canada.
      That excites me as a Sagg a Country named
      ‘Elsewhere’ is my favourite place. Anywhere but where
      i am syndrome. It’s not my fault, it’s in the stars :-)
      Hug a bear.
      Are you in the French or English part if you don’t mind me
      asking?
      I find French so much easier to understand when it’s not in France.

  34. Venus in Gem…

    Dear Unrequited Love,

    I often feel more comfortable dealing with you than actually being in a relationship… because, they can never really leave you if its unrequited. You just keep them in your mind’s guilded love cage for as long as you want.
    How bloody creepy is that?
    The cage is useful because you can put them away and take them back out whenever you like (this concept often blows up in ones face… but it is strangely comforting).
    Requited relationships are much easier, less exhausting and equally as interesting, so we should part ways, long time friend unrequited.
    Nobody wins with you.

    Regards
    Venus.

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