Is This Classic Aqua Or Pisces?

Lou Salome portrait“People who are not ‘faithful’ do not necessarily desert one person for another, but are often simply driven home to themselves…It need not be a gesture of abandonment for them to set free the person to whom they have clung; more likely it is a gesture of reverence: returning him to the world.”

Lou Andreas-Salome (born 12 Feb 1861) was a free-thinking woman & unconventional love-life leader way before it was fashionable. She supported herself as a writer, when few women did & was an intimate of Freud, Nietsche et al.

She was multiple conjunct Aquarius (Sun, Venus, Juno and Chiron all in that sign) with Uranus conjunct Ceres in Gemini trining the Aquarius AND Moon-Neptune in Pisces.

Venus in Aquarius alone is free-willed enough, the Uranus is a nice touch & Moon-Neptune suffuses the whole thing with spiritual yearning and the desire to place any of one’s bents – no matter what – in a higher context.

52 thoughts on “Is This Classic Aqua Or Pisces?

  1. I am a Venus and Mercury Aquarius and this is so me, but could my Pisces be an influence as well?
    I have a similar attitude to my ex husband. It is not fair on him that I did not love him and wanted to be free, he should also be free to find someone who does actually love him.
    FREEDOM
    Ironic that my decision to separate means he is actively trying to restrain my freedom of movement for the next 17 years.

  2. I’m jealous! Sounds like it made her absolutely fearless and I cling to my relationships to much! Venus in Cancer to blame….

  3. Sorry, but what a load of bollocks! A gesture of reverance? I am all for people living the life they feel they should (despite my Venus in Cancer..and Mercury…and Saturn…) but it is so amoral to get involved and then deny responsibility for involving the other person in your wanky ‘moment’. And SO egotistical to view selfishness as purity and selflessness that I am having visions of my Sagg ex waxing idealistic about leaving me so he can pursue… just about everyone else! Keep those gestures of selfless reverance entirely to yourself Aqua people, I say.

    • I had an Aqua girlfriend (Pisces Moon-Venus, Cap rising) who went through abslolute emo hell with a Sagg who did that number on her with all the philosophy, idealistic, free love who-ha.

      And like one of the other blog participants mentioned on another thread, her Cappy of seven months said he was in love with his ex. Bring this up about the responsibility thing as I knew a Cappy who told someone “I’m not responsible for her (meaning my) feelings.”

      Wow, dumped him like a hot potato (and no bias here as I’m Cappy Moon)

    • FireTrine, ditto to all that you say. My sagg ex pissed off after 18 years saying……wait for it…..”I need to follow my truth”. And yes he followed his truth with another woman.

    • Now, now, Wills, lets not jump to conclusions.

      Still….

      “It need not be a gesture of abandonment for them to set free the person to whom they have clung”

      Humph, how convienient.

  4. statement = “I care so much about you Im setting you free”
    translation = “Ive got better things to do than waste my time with you. Please disappear now, my new squeeze will be here any minute”.

    • But to answer Mystic’s query. It was Pisces Sun and Aqua Venus and Mercury (no offense to first post above with same), but I found him to be a hypocrite. Expousing friendship and freedom and yet clinging like a school boy.

      • And p.s., that woman in the pix looks like a spook….Another contridiction of the Pisces/Aqua thing of detachment and HAUNTING…

  5. mmm, that first statement doesn’t seem to ring true at all, tho I personally would have loved to have been a bit more freelovin’ in my younger days…the idea of it appealed, but the leo 8th house heart just a bit too ardent & way too easily psychically imprinted to be so detached.

  6. i’m a multiple conjunct aquarian (sun, venus, mercury, ascendent) and have venus conjunct ascendent and in my first house. i’m hearing this chick, am hugely intrigued and gotta research her more.

    in regards to love and relationships ~ i’m definitely a freedom fighter.

    • Yes I’m sun and moon Aqua and I just think the whole notion of everlasting love to be total B.S. I have been guilty of dumping people as I knew I would love them more if we were not going out together, which has proven to be true. There is too much in the world to be fascinated by to focus on one boy… yawn, plus I have no talent for feigning interest.. alas I am one perpetual single woman.. although my cap venus and taurus rising are always at a bit of a loss here??

  7. yes the image is one as if from a sceance….. hmmm. As Mystic well knows, I have loved a Pisces man who would positively adhere to the above espoused principles, that is, if he could adhere to anything, yet.. love, even at its most painful, remains love… I suspect a Gemini might say those type of things as well, some of the time…..

  8. ok, i’m aqua and that statement of hers makes me mad.
    its like projecting your choices onto the other person.
    i want to be free. but i’m going to say that i’m setting you free because it a)absolves me from guilt
    b) makes me feel more saintly…..
    …doesnt make the action right or any less hurtful. grumble.

    grrrrr……must find chocolate….

  9. I like that attitude – it makes sense to me. I’ve got aqua on my mid heaven -
    but what’s that saying – ‘the truth will set you free’.

    I remember reading about how Oriah Mountain Dreamer who write this amazing Invitation thing a few years back – she originally wrote the word ‘faithless’ but people who reproduced it changed it to ‘faithful’ as they didn’t really get where she was at.

    The Invitation

    It doesn’t interest me what you do for a living.
    I want to know what you ache for
    and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart’s longing.

    It doesn’t interest me how old you are.
    I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool
    for love
    for your dream
    for the adventure of being alive.

    It doesn’t interest me what planets are squaring your moon…
    I want to know if you have touched the centre of your own sorrow
    if you have been opened by life’s betrayals
    or have become shrivelled and closed
    from fear of further pain.

    I want to know if you can sit with pain
    mine or your own
    without moving to hide it
    or fade it
    or fix it.

    I want to know if you can be with joy
    mine or your own
    if you can dance with wildness
    and let the ecstasy fill you to the tips of your fingers and toes
    without cautioning us
    to be careful
    to be realistic
    to remember the limitations of being human.

    It doesn’t interest me if the story you are telling me
    is true.
    I want to know if you can
    disappoint another
    to be true to yourself.
    If you can bear the accusation of betrayal
    and not betray your own soul.
    If you can be faithless
    and therefore trustworthy.

    I want to know if you can see Beauty
    even when it is not pretty
    every day.
    And if you can source your own life
    from its presence.

    I want to know if you can live with failure
    yours and mine
    and still stand at the edge of the lake
    and shout to the silver of the full moon,
    “Yes.”

    It doesn’t interest me
    to know where you live or how much money you have.
    I want to know if you can get up
    after the night of grief and despair
    weary and bruised to the bone
    and do what needs to be done
    to feed the children.

    It doesn’t interest me who you know
    or how you came to be here.
    I want to know if you will stand
    in the centre of the fire
    with me
    and not shrink back.

    It doesn’t interest me where or what or with whom
    you have studied.
    I want to know what sustains you
    from the inside
    when all else falls away.

    I want to know if you can be alone
    with yourself
    and if you truly like the company you keep
    in the empty moments.

    http://www.oriahmountaindreamer.com/

    • but is it a reference to faith or faithfulness? because i read it to mean something more ‘religious’ rather than a reference to loyalty….

      beautiful words though.

      we are but mere mortals though….

      • I think it is about surrender maybe…???

        By giving up an attachment to whatever you have “faith” in or whatever you will/will not allow or do/do not want (as long as it does not cause harm to you or another) ….you surrender to the divine will and are okay with not understanding ‘why’… maybe it is about just going with the flow of what comes up in your life, trusting there is a purpose beyond our limited comprehension.

        I dunno?! that’s my best guess :)

    • Faithless as in prepared to reject an inauthentic relationship.

      It reminds me of a couple of people I know who didn’t want to be in the relationship they were in, but were reluctant to break it off as they thought it would be doing the wrong thing by the other person. They were prepared to fake affection they didn’t feel or hang in the relationship even though they couldn’t contribute affection or authentic feeling.

      I like the poem, lib tiger.

      • Uber, I think that is what I was trying to say with my post- I wasn’t aware that people might think I am a cold hearted bitch.

        • I certainly don’t think you are. I would never judge someone that I don’t really know esp. by basic astro signatures. That’s why I’d said no offense to you because I don’t know you…

          I totally agree that if we don’t love someone we should let them go. Sometimes someone loves one more than the other loves them. I actually told the Pisces Sun, Aqua Venus/Merc that once because that’s how I’d felt. I’d loved him very much and due to circmstances was simply feeling hurt when it didn’t feel reciprocated. He said that wasn’t true, blah,blah,blah :)

          Dated this guy once who was fresh from a divorce. To me he was clearly not ready for a relationship and was smothering me. I had to let him go and he got tears and cried. I felt horrible but told him the truth and also that I knew he would hate me but later might see things straight. He simply was not healed up yet and I could not fix it.

          Another situation with a Gemini, he had expectations I guess as when I told him I was going to give the Pisces another chance, he had a fit over the phone “what kind of a person are you?” And I’d only met him in person once! Well, an honest one I hope. Later realized I COULD have played them both and then chose but that’s not my style and doesn’t seem fair. Libra NN I guess, as never really could juggle the whole dating thing and find balance with more than one person. It was just confusing…

          So I’ve let people go also who cleary were more into me or had greater expectations. What’s that saying? “Dissapointment is born of expectations”.

          Some of what I put in my posts was just venting and being silly.

        • And, I just read about your circumstances on the other thread. Prayers to you my luv. xo

    • LT – I’ve had that book on my bookshelf for over 12 months and haven’t read it yet – can you believe it! Contents: Accepting the Invitation, The Longing, The Fear, The Sorrow, The Joy, Betrayal, Beauty, Failure, The Commitment, The Fire, Deep Sustenance, Finding Our Way Home – sounds like a remedy for a few of us here. Thanks for the reminder.

  10. “I want to know if you can
    disappoint another
    to be true to yourself.
    If you can bear the accusation of betrayal
    and not betray your own soul.”

    I agree that this is necessary at times, of course.

    But just don’t be a hypocrite…

    “It need not be a gesture of abandonment for them to set free the person to whom they have clung”

    If you have clung also.

    At least admit it…

    • Thanks for shaing that libratiger…brings back memories!! But, luckily now…

      “I want to know if you can be alone
      with yourself
      and if you truly like the company you keep
      in the empty moments.”

      This is a nice place to be also and ultimately, most important.

    • oh yeh – I’ve clung plenty of times. I’m a human, don’t we all?? maybe it’s gravity that makes us do it?

  11. LT thank you soo much for the invitation. I got almost breathless reading and a tightness in my upper chest that i quickly breathed thru so I could stay in denial of many of the topics in the words.
    Will process it another time.

    i love this one the best
    It doesn’t interest me where or what or with whom
    you have studied.
    I want to know what sustains you
    from the inside
    when all else falls away.

    • It can be hard when you’re losin’ all….And so my advise is to go to blue who-who-who-who Hawaii…

      (this is to finish song davidl started above). How about that Hawaii Pegs?

      :)

      • oh yes, and extremely modest,
        actually I have mostly very fine
        virtues as second nature…
        honesty, kindness, etc..
        but I don’t really like to talk
        about myself too much…

          • He mentioned he’s an Aries FF. Yes, please, Wills, don’t be an enigma…What is ze rest darlink? Vee will have to be more persuasive if you donz tell us…

            Random as he is as postmod stated, he might not see our posts.

            “Earth to Wills….Come in Wills…”

          • 3/29/58 4:36 pm louisville ky

            aries, virgo asc. 22Deg 27 cancer moon
            sun 6 aries

            (why do people keep asking me that? – oh, they’re astrologers, duh

          • thanks for sharing birth deets william. I’m sure FF will do a thorough examination of your chart (she’s good at it too) but so far i can see Venus and Mars in Aqua. I think we all suspected you might have some Aqua planets to explain the left of centre comments :)

          • Thanks william. Of course i couldn’t resist – wanted an insight into your mind. I posted my thoughts under your posts on Dark Moon Meanderings.

  12. A word of apology to all the Aquas who read this blog, but……Aquas always seem to look ( and act ) like robots. Something mechanicaly cold about them, detached and emotionally blah

    • So true! I love Aquarians, my hubby is Aqua Rising and many of our friends are Aqua people. But good Lord, they can be stiff and fraternal at times, rigid independence written large, rather than freedom loving floozies. I think it is relaxing to have a bit of this around, but I wouldn’t want to be one!

      • FireTrine, yes rigid independence is such an evocative term to describe some aquas…I’ve found a few that are great lovers of their own freedom with burn the monster zeal in regards to other people’s rules, and then strictly adhere to their own set….which maintains their freedom…rigidly.

        Oh Aqua people the original enigma wrapped in a paradox. I’m often attracted to the sheer chutzpah needed to live true to themselves, but also a tad repelled when the rigidity rears up in close quarters…except if I read that back and let my mind wander that sentence doesn’t have to be a bad thing….mind wanders…hmmm

  13. Sorry Anonymous, did you just say something? I was busy thinking about… stuff… *grin*

    I love that poem libran tiger…is that what we want? Yes. Is that what we’re willing to give someone else? Oooh, tricky…

    Have been laying low trying to process lots of changes and developments in la vie Champagne, but oh my goodness, Mystic, thank you for an amazing evening at Hive Bar! Twas brilliant. You are a genius!

    And aqua-girl and RLP – so lovely to meet you ladies last week! You are such sweethearts & would love to catch up once I sort out this bloody Aqua man!

    xx

  14. I have side with the minority and say I LOVE this quote and am also very curious about Lou and her writings now.

    I really can relate, it just instantly made sense to me.

    And I have nada in Aqua or Pisces.

  15. what i love about this site…you can come in with view A…others here point out view B…and you walk away with options C,D and E.

    i get not holding onto someone you dont love. giving them freedom. but they wont see it as freedom at the time…more like a sudden shove into hell….

    i think the initial quote’s use of the word ‘faithless’ is tricky….because it brings ‘disloyalty/cheating’ into the mix…at least how i understood it. and as libran tiger pointed out, that understanding is flawed…

    and anon – if you ever witness an aqua emotionally implode..not pretty – .its a multi car pile up in the middle of a natural disaster…….christian bale anyone?

  16. I see pros and cons of the statement. Like I get what she’s saying and it makes sense but at the same time it can be used to like shirk responsibility to someone else.

    I will say that I think those that think she’s being completely slack, it’s just out of hurt of being left or wanting to take moral highground. :P

    Sun, Merc & Mars in Aqua. So there.

    Too much Aqua-bashing going on, so bashing back :P

  17. funny my soulmate partner whatever and I who both happen to be aqua rising did exactly this to eachother, we know we will be together when we have fulfiled whatever it is we are doing. For us it is comfort enough that the other person exists somewhere, it’s not a hope that we will come together again but a knowledge

  18. All online sources for her birth date I could find indicate 12 February 1861 in St. Petersburg (Russia), but none say which calendar was used. Now, Russia only switched from Julian Calendar to Gregorian Calendar in 1917. So, if her birth date is indicated for the Julian Calendar, she had the sun at about 5 degrees Pisces and the moon in the second half of Leo (or possibly early Virgo)!