I count myself lucky that I know quite a few (in varying degrees) and count them as my dearest friends. One even teaches at uni, lol. The traits come more naturally to some than others and as Sweetpea says below, they take time to grow on some. Although, a few of the friends I’ve known since my teens have always been that way (bastards!). The rest of us are in training. I’ve been meaning to print up the list and pin it somewhere as a reminder.

Yeah, philosophy at uni was a big disappointment. And the hairy old dudes teaching it were poster boys for anhedonia! Having said that, I’ve gotten a lot out of Eastern philosophy and Alain de Botton has done heaps to bring philosophy out from crusty academia. Bless his cotton socks.

Don’t mind the compartmentalizing jibe. It was a generalized stab at philosophers. I was being tetchy (Aries moon + Merc in Virgo) over the remark about whether the traits were spiritually, practically or philosophically desirable.

I give you that but kinda gross as age of my youngest daughter…

All I can say is disillusionment comes before enlightenment and each step of the way will be that way.

Have always felt the unknown to be an adventure because otherwise what’s the purpose to most anything.

Guy in the pix too young. Eh, not interested anyhow…

I’m sorry that you disliked philosophy though. I did very little classical philosophy which may explain why I did not find it too removed from reality. It was incredibly useful in a practical sense too – it helped me to hone my ability to critically evaluate information, and then construct an argument. I’m an environmentalist and, as you can imagine, this has been invaluable.

I can’t see where I was exhibiting a skill for compartmentalizing.

Maslow provides a list of healthy human behaviours, a definition for being well adjusted, which rules out the anhedonia you speak of. An efficient perception of reality is only one of the traits. I personally find that trait helpful as it allows one to discern bullshit from authenticity, improves one’s decision making ability and allows one to solve problems. It’s antithesis is denial, a psychological condition known to impair problem solving.

As for what philosophers would make of it, who cares? I dropped out of philosophy when I realized how removed from reality it is. That’s why people with personal problems don’t consult philosophers for help. In fact they get as far away from university campuses as they can. If they’re interested in a solution, they’re more likely to seek out someone who possesses a measure of Maslow’s traits rather than a skill for compartmentalizing.

My fundamental question is whether these traits are seen as desirable by Maslow? Does he think they are spiritually desirable? Or philosophically desirable? Or desirable in a practical sense? For navigating one’s way around the world? Because I’d like to know how the self-actualized function in a world of non-self-actualized people? How do they work for, socialize with, carry out intimate relationships with those who fail to perceive efficiently, exhibit anxiety about ambiguity or uncertainty or (heaven forbid) allow their hopes and desires to distort their observations. I guess that the self-actualized can efficiently predict the actions, emotions and psychological states of their fellow travelers. And observe them efficiently. Is this ultimately helpful?

Also, on some level fear of the unknown is desirable. It’s been an integral part of our survival as a species. I know, I’m probably being too literal here – he may simply mean that they are adventurous. Which is a desirable trait. And of course it’s useful to be able see the fake and phony in others – so it has some upsides.

On a personal level, it sounds as though they must frequently be stuck down in the primes of their lives by that debilitating disease, anhedonia (‘realists’ often are) and I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t count them amongst my friends.

Maslow who?

Let’s see, he rugby player half way round the world therefore I realistically perceive it won’t happen. Cue hiring Madame Vivian’s fantasy service.. ya?