I thought the whole Inner Child seemed to erupt in the 90s but apparently it emerged in the 70s. I think i did one session with someone re it once & it was surprisingly healing, although v.easy to wallow, I imagine, if you wanted to. It was to do with something traumatic & the therapist got me to go back and talk to myself as a five year old etc etc. Comfortingly. Not just nattering. Not-The-Typical-Virgo was doing Self-Parenting Workshops at the same time & we hung a lot at the pub in Bondi, discussing our findings.
The concept may have slunk from favour now but I thought it interesting that Carl Jung (a multiple Leo) thought of it as the Divine Child & like this amazing golden creature within, whom we could access to be more creative and spontaneous. A sort of invincible summer vibe. But John Brawshaw – a Cancerian and arguably the most prolific/best known of all the Inner Childish authors – thought it nearly always “wounded” and in need of rescue. Etc. Yes, I KNOW that is a massive generalised summary.
I know Louise Hay (a Libran!) is totally into it but that Dr Phil – a Virgo – does not apparently believe in Inner Child work. With the obvious disclaimer, that anyone with a mental illness should seek professional help and not be stuffing around on this site, can we please do Moon in Scorp amateur shrinking & Inner Child theory? Is it still valid, was it ever & do any of you have this consciousness.
BTW, i only watch it at the gym but i think Dr Phil is sooo Virgo and he should go head-to-head with Louise Hay in all her flowery uber-euphemistic ‘everything i eat turns to health & beauty’ glory. I love her but seriously, wouldn’t a debate between those two be FUN television. The person with the prob could sit between them as they fight it out for the best “solution.”
Tags: 70's astrology, 90s astrology, astrology inner child, astrology psychology, astrology therapy, Bondi astrology, Cancerian, Carl Jung, Carl Jung Leo, Divine Child, Dr Phil, Dr Phil astrology, inner child therapy, John Bradshaw, John Bradshaw astrology, Libra, Libran, Louise Hay, Louise Hay astrology, moon, Moon in Scorpio, Multiple Leo, Not-The-Typical-Virgo, Scorpio, Self-Parenting astrology, Therapy, Virgo
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For my innerchild i have 72 Derwent coloured pencils
& a giant Teddy Bear.
Oh & my liitle furry creature, Minks.-
my real child was given 72 Derwent coloured pencils as a Christmas present and was euphoric way back then……
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I treasure the 72 Derwents that got me through design school, in the timber box. they are used by all the kids who come to my house. rearranging them by colour hue or numerically. their call. priceless! xox
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I had an amazing experience when I was being treated by a healer/massage dude who used to come to my family property when I was first into self-healing. I’d grown up on this property, and whilst he couldn’t go in the house (my parents oppressive energies, etc) he would set up his table and treat me in the garden. And during one session he suddenly spoke about me as a small girl who wasn’t allowed in the house, and introduced me back to my inner child, and I remembered being told as a young child to go away and to stay outside. So I comforted myself at that age, told her/me that it was OK to come in and that I was loved and welcomed, and re-integrated ourselves – a sad but ultimately healing experience.
As you said, Mystic, maybe it’s a more potent/relevant concept to those with unhappy or difficult childhoods. But then, how many people had a perfectly happy childhood? Thanks for reminding me of this experience
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Inner child work, in my experience, takes a lot of guts and yes you can get stuck in the groove whilst processing it all. I found I had to go back to all that deep painful stuff at intervals because it can get overwhelming. There’s ’signs’ that tells me it’s time to go back do a little more then move on & enjoy the fruits of all that dark work. I had a violent and traumatic ‘childhood’ so I’ve HAD TO get into this.
LOL I would love Dr Phil debate with Louise, facinating.
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faScinating even.
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well, what we deny and reject always comes into our lives as Fate… so says Jung, and don’t we all know it?
Hillman writes about the Child as the Puer archetype (Peter Pan, Icarus etc), Carolyn Myss has a whole range of child archetypes from Orphan to Magical Child. Julia Cameron goes on about our inner child being the one we need to communicate with in order to get in touch with our creativity. The alchemists call the Divine Child ‘Mercurius’… Mercury (and Jung goes there too).
I personally believe in the Inner Brat (who loves to sabotage stuff, throws tanties when not getting her way and is a general pain in the butt), the Inner Princess (who, like the brat is capable of much mischief if she is not royally accomodated). The Inner Mystic is also somewhat of an innocent and divine child.
Jungian/depth psychologists recommend ‘active imagination’ for opening dialogues with Inner figures – whether these are just plain old ordinary ‘me-as-a-child’ or archetypes such as Princess/Brat/Divine/Orphan etc. Much more productive than wafting down memory lane or wallowing in bitterness over unlived lives etc. One gets into a meditative state and ‘asks’ to be shown the image/figure in question then converses with it/him/her – ask what it/he/she wants etc. Some amazing progress can be made.
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originally concept from Rosseau I think…. is the child good, is it bad—
alice miller cashed in big time…. (the child is bad…)
total rubbish, it is good…
forget the whole context of Rosseau tho’,
always confuse it with that other story of famous european empath
imprisoned as a child (which gave him “powers”) and found wandering streets in 1800’s
hans something or other… hm,… currently a play about him…
(so helpful I know…) -
My thoughts are that the fluffy bunny sort of psychology is just as valid as the more cerebral because some peeps have probs with harsh reality. The Louise Hay sort is all about reaffirmation and that word I detest “empowerment” but for peeps with deep dark problems a psych has to feel his/her way with a client to ascertain which of many methods will be of help to provide the tools to go onward and upward. If a case worker told a domestically violent drag-line operator who the courts have given the choice between counseling or incarceration to put love in every corner of his home, the case worker would probably be snotted. All methods are useful. Horses for courses. A case worker can access the inner child without the client knowing that this technique is being used. It’s only when a psychologist becomes a public figure that certain techniques are highlighted.
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v. true CC. There are probably as many techniques as there are therapists, or for that matter, patients.
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im totally for inner child work – inner-anything work, if done as an exercise in understanding the different inner influences in what is by adulthood a complex psyche. written or meditative dialogue, as ta said above, has been my route into it, and ive found it enlightening, humbling and really informative. there is definitely more than one ‘inner child’ – ie, yes, the wounded one (even in pretty normal upbringings kids can internalise and amplify all kinds of minor things), creative one, angry child etc. i have found it really useful to ask myself, when i feel im having an ‘over the top’ reaction to something, how old do i feel? usually the age that pops up is something 0-15 years old… so i take it from there.
its a good thing to understand these parts of yourself so well that they dont run the show the minute we get under stress. how many people have seen grown men and women suddenly act like they are 5 years old? or swing into adolescent sulking and slamming doors? so for me inner cgild work is kinda vital to awareness of core emotional states, so that you can respond better in the present.
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I remember the whole ‘repressed memory’ thingo that happened in the 80’s. There was a famous case in Perth where the woman had repressed memory therapy and remembered her dad raping her etc… cut a long story short it never happened, repressed memory therapy was highly discredited and doesn’t seem to be a part of the new age inner child thing any more, thank goodness. The most interesting and I think common sense reason for exploring the inner child story was explained to me by a therapist. When a child for example cuts a finger, shows it to the mother and the mother acts like the child is about to die, screaming frantic etc..the child will remember this as a horrific incident and may be scarred by it. The child who cuts a finger shows the mum and gets a calm, she’ll be right response will forget the incident within days. The solution is to see where these events have occurred and heal them via therapy, not because they were horrific but usually because they really wern’t that bad but were treated that way in the beginning.
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right you are about the repressed memory thing David – was just talking about this in class the other day (am training to become a therapist) and why we are not to lead a client who is ‘in an enhanced state’ (what we now call hypnosis) – the mind is full of images, some of them are memories and some of them are picked up in everyday life. Direct someone toward a supposed ‘event’ (i.e repressed memory) and what you can get is a whole lot of imagination. Its not that the imaginary figures are invalid – its just that they are not to be taken literally. In the case of actual repressed memories (and there are such things) they often arise in other forms and not literal images of ‘uncle john playing with my doo-doo’.
Psyche/Soul is VERY good at protecting itself.
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I remember that case and the details revealed therapeutic overkill. The patient was having 2-3 sessions of ‘therapy’ per week for a couple of years before the ‘memories’ surfaced. It put a lot of people through hell.
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Alchemist, inner brat/inner princess. Excellent (although you need not my approval) very clever
& very NOW as it was permitted not generally in the 50’s to be so.
Children didn’t have much of a voice then, still seen & not heard times.
After C Myss’ inner child acknowledgement there seems not much to add, but you have!
I keened it immediately & it gave me the guilt free opportunity to spoil ma self with
Windsor & Newton watercolours & illustrations of the Fairy Queendom.
With the Archetype cards, have noticed i tend to skim the ones i should acknowledge MORE.
The abandoned child, but oh do i love her & have great compassion for her now i accept it
as very real.I am so over Lou Lou & have found a lot of new age rhetoric turned me wimpy along with christian
‘turn the other cheek’ attitudes.
As Wilde said ‘when a giant is about to stomp on your head, a white bubble ain’t gonna help’.
So kung love fu & ‘don’t lay no boogie woogie on the queen of rock ‘n roll’ aka warrior woman is
next incarnation:)
Chesh ‘happy fluffy bunnies’ is my easter text to friends….ha ha…..jokes on me!
xx
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Lou Lou, love it Pegs – she is quite a formidable woman herself and would no doubt support your need for an outward expression of your inner Warrior Woman
. So true about the giant, its too late for a white bubble when the foot is descending I suppose – the idea is to not attract the giant in the first place, lol. New Age rhetoric can be SO darn false… local ‘medicine wheel’ new age shop (nice crystals etc) woman craps on about Rays and hierarchies and gets all Blavatsky and ’spiritual’ but I look at her, all miserable looking in her dung-brown poncho and wonder if its so wonderful to practice all this stuff, why she doesn’t glow with good health and inner wisdom. Bah humbug. (I know, I know, I lack the compassion and acceptance to be in tune with the Ascended Masters, so of course I won’t be moving over to the 6th World new dimension come 2012 LOL)
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For sure Saggigal, once you know & understand it, you see the way peeps revert to childishness
vis a vis childlikeness when stressed & outta control.
Absolutely David, parenting was too big a thing for me to deal with, that i would
affect/effect a baby’s life by MY behaviors, mindset & attitudes.
We are basically copycats, all learned & acquired behaviors.
Love the stories of human babies brought up by wolves or monkeys, they seem like
purity itself.
A dose of pure sandoz lsd at 21 years of age, unconditioned me completely, but alas
it all builds up again, the conditioning.
‘Fly you are Free’……………………………………..then gravity sets in again, that’s why i think
inner child acknowledgement is vital. -
William, can you find name of play you mentioned, sounds interesting indeed.
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may be over, I seem to be 2 months late to everything these days….
I think I may have died last May in fact…
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First, inner child. I’ve never done this sort of stuff but simply from insights into own childhood can see how it could help. My childhood was fun and carefree, being raised by a Top Dad. Only drawback was that my mum died when I was five. As you grow up, you know intellectually, rationally, logically, that your parent is dead, but I think that you keep a lot of the child in you, emotionally, that never grasps this fact and sees the parent as simply having disappeared. Leads to some problems at the time and some weird dreams every now & then in later life. Have two friends who also lost mothers young and have had similar experiences. And so it doesn’t surprise me that childhood experiences sometimes need to be addressed – either through professional therapy, talking it out with friends or just muddling through some other way – to completely come to grips with the adult you: how and why you react to things the way you do, what you’re looking for, what you need, what you can give yourself.
Secondly, Dr Phil versus Louise Hay. I would totally pay to see that. I secretly love Dr Phil.
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dr. phil more like what landfill did you rot in for advice like that
ohh bitch puuhhleeze
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/update-celebrity-blogger/1085169/
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my six year old daughters’ dad died a month ago. We hadn’t been together for 5 years, but got along ok. I have already had sleepless nights wondering how this will affect her as an adult. She is going through some intense stuff, gemini/cancer cusp, cap rising, pisces moon, chiron in cap. she is feeling rather alone, and often wishes she wasn’t alive. Heart breaking stuff. Junkie dad has been put firmly on a very high pedestal. He was a horrific husband, but a good enough dad when i left him. It is hard enough when a normal living parent falls off the childhood pedestal, but how is it for the child who lost the parent. Eventually she will know he wasn’t so perfect and that scares me too. The whole fuqing mess scares me.
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aac, I read your post & I felt that I could share from my experience if that of course helps in anyway……
I lost both my parents when I was 10 years old, the most difficult thing for me was the shock that my parents could/did die & I felt so alone in the universe. I had all these feelings & I didn’t know how to express them, I struggling with grief & It was so very confusing…. Even as an adult it’s hard but I have wonderful memories of my parents to think of.The best thing your daughter has is you & I’m sure you will be more than able to give her everything that she needs in life. She may still put her dad on a pedestal when she grows but it may just be because he was a good dad to her & she has those wonderful memories at least.
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thank you. I am going to do the best I can. I guess I am much afraid of not being able to do enough. And I guess I know that no matter what I do, she will always hurt. I don’t want my baby to hurt. I am still so angry at him for being unable to give up his habit for her (even for me) for dying because of his own pain that he muted with drugs. For not being able to heal himself so that he could look after his child. Behaving like a brat teenager at 39. My inner adult has copped a complete beating and I have to be braver and stronger than ever before. I grew up the day he died. Really grew up. I had to tell my child he was dead, that was the hardest thing I have ever done. My heart broke in two as her heart broke. I despise him for this. Over time I will forgive him I suppose, but it is going to take a lot of therapy and time. This is all still so very fresh and raw. But thank you for your kind words. They do help.
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he watches over her no doubt…
remember, there is no death— remember.
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You are a wonderful mother aac. There’s so much love in your sentiments. Of course you don’t want your little one to experience hurt. However, everyone must experience significant loss in their life, and unfortunately some experience it very early at a very delicate stage. Dad will stay on that pedestal a long time, possibly long after you get knocked off of yours, but you can trust that your daughter will deal with it in her own time and come to realize the truth of the situation. The full demythologizing of our parents may not come until middle age when we start to come into our own wisdom, often matured by loss. It’s important that she sees how you deal with the hurt and she will learn from that, even if she learns from your mistakes. (The hurt veterans here will probably reassure you there isn’t a perfect way of dealing) I also make a big distinction between hurt and damage. It’s possible that she can eventually deal with the hurt without sustaining too much damage.
I never had much sympathy for junkies – never could relate to the destruction of that path, but this guy http://jostsauer.com and his books on drugs and drug repair really changed my mind. Jost is an ex addict. It may be a little raw for you to go there yet, but it helped me to understand the power of addictions, and that mostly addicts don’t set out to hurt others. Usually, they just want to feel good, but it gets out of control.
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thanks again for the positive comments. I always knew she would be hurt by her father one way or another… But maybe your right, maybe she wont be too damaged and fortunately they had good times together. We have many wonderful people around us and much love in our lives.
He was a middle class virgoan junkie. very classy but a total mess. Horrid childhood experiences etc. I do understand the junkie thing, I married one after all, but even so, I don’t understand the extreme level of selfishness. Perhaps because when I fell pregnant with our child, I knew it was time to give over my own bullshit and take care of someone else. I grew up, got over my crap, and gave away all my destructive habits (though lately I am smoking again, and attempting to give up again). I know women who can’t do this either, who are more in love with drugs than their own children. It is so incredibly sad.
Perhaps a big part of my fear is my own childhood too, after all this is what this is about, feeling small and invisible, dumped and unloved and completely without value. But you are right Uber, life throws shit at us all the time, and how we handle it is down to our skills that we have innately and learn by example. My girl has seen me cry over this, she has seen me be strong and weak, happy and sad and angry. I just don’t want her to think she is any less valuable because a parent has left her ( i have 5 parents, true modern families, so have been abandoned more than once by a father). And yes, now I see my parents as they are, have come to terms with it, done the therapy, and like them all quite well. So I guess this is her path and I have to guide her as best I can.
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It’s good for her to see you cry. It helps to validate and normalize her own feelings.
I’m not sure if you need these links, but I’ve found excellent, helpful stuff on the net for helping children deal with grief. I’ve added the suicide booklet as it’s really well done and has parallels with your situation.
http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=114&np=141&id=1662
http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/pubs/2002/supporting_children_.html
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Oh crap. How did I end up putting my email address up there???
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Mystic may be able to take it down if you email her and ask nicely. She may have to remove the post though, so copy it first, so you can stick it back up.
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prob mixed your name and email into wrong boxes , ooops ! ask Myst to remove it, prob not great having it there. By the way what was your credit card no. and birth details again ? hmmm ?
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omg I did that ?
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just deleted it, sorry, didn’t think it would work, why did it ? or was it just the same time as myst did ? weird man
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Thanks. Have already emailed MM.
David, I changed my credit card because I got a bit tired of all those, er “specialist” services you were putting on there. Sorry, but that’s just how it is.
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he never offered them to ME
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yeah, na, I know I did….
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To hell with the inner child. I’m busy searching for my inner adult.
David’s inner child rather likes to be spanked.
Dr Phil would thrash Louise Hay. Sorry, Louise annoys me with her ridiculous generalizations about health and ailments, and the magical thinking that gives people a false sense of control over their health. There are so many variables that contribute to the development illness, including environment and predisposition. I’m constantly having to debrief people from magical thinking and the resulting despair they feel when they are unable to cure themselves of things like endometriosis, cancer, crohn’s disease and the like. It makes them feel more powerless.
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Uber Virgo, hun, I feel your pain (not really, just thought I’d try out an empathising technique I learned in a Hay House self-help book)
still, affirmations DO work – they can help to form new neural pathways, but they need to be considered as WORK and not fluffy-bunny style wishful thinking. The link between biography and biology is indisputable, and what Ms Hay achieved by observation is quite remarkable. I can honestly say her book You Can Heal Your Life was seminal on my personal journey (ick, did I just use that term?).
The new psychologies – paraneuropsychology etc – the work of respected scientists like Candace Pert (Molecules of Emotion) for instance, in which she explores the link between thought, emotion and physiology – now show what the alchemists have been trying to convey for eons – thoughts are energy and create in the nature in which they are used.
We live in a world dominated by Cartesian thought (dualism) and this means many people live out their experiences without even realising they have split themselves in two mind/body, spirit/matter, black/white, day/night, good/bad, sick/well. Our bodies (matter/felt experience) cannot be separated from spirit (thought) or soul (emotion) and yet we relate to them as if they are.
the fact that people are getting frustrated about not being able to cure themselves just highlights this split.
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TA im so in agreement with you. the stuff on neuroplasticity and meditation etc (for instance) is truly remarkable…has changed forever the way i think about …well, thinking! that its not about ‘positive thinking’ as in some fluff nonsense,but that it physically produces effects when done consistently. not as in instant cure/instant anything. but training new neural pathways, and the very real effects of that on your physical wellbeing, is so empowering and effective from a very scientific standpoint.
i think more happens in the brain than most people believe…and its not then about wishing things to be different, but actually doing the work- meditation, lots of inner work etc- to shift things in life. dont think this is a naive view (as some might…) but can be very transformative over time…
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yes yes saggigal, and not only in the brain – thinking extends to the whole body – as my teacher says ‘the body knows’.
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That is such an empowering thing, no? That we get to decide how we want our brains to “work” and then set about making it so.
Sort of like a new development of the old “life is not about finding yourself, life if about creating yourself.”
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People get sick for all kinds of reasons. They way they think is just one of those.
What concerns me about Louise Hay’s stuff (apart from it not bearing out clinically) is that it fails miserably when put in reverse, which is what folks inevitably do with it. It doesn’t help someone who has Crohn’s disease or endometriosis to think they were landed with a nasty, painful and perhaps incurable ailment because they didn’t think the ‘right’ thoughts (whatever they are). If Louise Hay were correct, kind hearted, well adjusted people would never get sick and vindictive bastards would all be riddled with horrid inflammatory disorders and cancer. A lot of people would like to believe it’s that simple, but we all know illness is more complex than that.
You’re right, TA, Cartesian dualism did western thinking no favours. Westerners are now busy trying to intellectually reconnect body mind and spirit, where in the east they were never separate. I don’t treat them as separate, but there’s a huge difference between saying thoughts affect physiology and telling people they can cure their own diseases.
Affirmations might work for some people and a positive attitude is helpful in most situations, but there also comes a time to accept pain or death. When I was ill a while back, I gave a lot of things a go, including Louise Hay. Frankly, the affirmations made no difference to my symptoms and it was hard to do them without feeling ridiculous.
What did help was good medicine (Chinese & homeopathy) practiced by skilled practitioners plus qi gong. When I got the right medicine it just worked. Symptoms began to shift. And with the qi gong I felt a difference within days. Now there’s something that works and clearly demonstrates the power of Eastern wholism. Breath + discipline + movement, bound together by an entire tradition of development and refinement. Practice qi gong, or yoga or tai qi, and your body is strengthened, your mind is calmed and your chances of living a long life increase. It’s my choice over affirmations any day.
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Living in a physical world, thoughts are not immediately manifest. That’s a power reserved for the more evolved as immediate manifestation is a responsibility some are not ready for…
Never the less, I agree with you Ubs as overall, I feel the physical needs a helpful nudge since “we’re here now” and often already in a predicament due to our bodies carrying around all the thoughts and feelings of our ancestors. Millions upon millions of them. At this point, to some extent, we’re just a big ol thought form where the Soul is seeking to transform and emerge.
Think it’s neat though if we can hook up the positive thinking stuff to assist in our healing endeavors. Ultimately, think our thoughts do create our reality but taking a look around us, it hasn’t been terribly pleasant thoughts that have been thunked…
Again, I do hands on healing type work because the body needs a push. The body needs movement and flow like with some of the modalities you suggest. 3-D is quite stuck.
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Body work rules, Sweets!
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And while I’m on a Louise Hay rant, I might add that her therapeutic process does nothing to help people develop insights into the real causes of their illnesses. That’s why I felt ridiculous doing the affirmations – repeating some prosaic platitude, when it proved more fruitful to search for answers and insight, as well as quality healthcare. When I did come to understand the various causes of my illness, and there were a number, they bore no resemblance to Louise Hay’s twee formulas.
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and eg someone with lungs full of asbestos can’t simply wish it away
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Uber I’m with on most magical thinking stuff. But some ailments I really do see as psyche based at times – sore throats seemingly suppressed anger, sore tummies – unexpressed fear/emotions, heavy colds – mental confusion etc, especially in children.
Lousie Hays is generalist and that’s the problem for a big chunk of her readers as there is far more to it, and change requires more than her generalist recipes. When I did my psyche degree in the mid nineties, there was new stream – psychoneuroimmunology beginning which I found fascinating but am way out of touch on the research now.
I have never watched Dr Phil – am I missing something?
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“I have never watched Dr Phil – am I missing something?”
Nah, just a big mouthed Texan….lol… As we say here in the states “we do things Texas size” and of course you must have the accent while saying so……
Thought he was Leo Mystic, not Virgo. Could look up his chart I guess.
(nOT that I’m questioning YOU!!! HOW DARE!!….. Anyway, FF, I don’t see his show anymore cuz I’m at work. Been good for the general populace I think as high lights how society is dysfunctional as a whole. Hey we’s all in this boat togetha!’ Row baby, row!!
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Not really…
Texan homilies to the blind-to-self types
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yeah, most of us
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I think it denotes taking responsibility for oneself and their issues if as an adult one recognizes the child within if there are wounds for example. I mean, how long can we blame our parents until we realize they did the best they could (for the most part and generalizing here to some extent). Some people are just asses though but some parents simply just never healed, themselves, ya know?
So I feel it perfectly fine to talk to one’s inner child from the place we are now and state “it’s okay, you are safe”, etc…. Dr. Phil states that we are usually afraid of being hurt again by men, women, whomever because we don’t trust ourselves. I think when we can trust ourselves and our perceptions we can take risks because we can ascertain when something is not healthy. We usually don’t do this though until we have learned from some hard knocks of life and have cultivated boundries.
Some things can not be “affirmed away” but Louise is a dear for trying. Some things are genetic and karmic and certain souls choose to carry the crap and process it, or not.
Louise Hay’s teachings remind me of getting three one hour massages a week as my re-hab for one of my back surgeries. The massage therapist said that she felt cigarette smoke in my aura…. Yeah I smoked esp. when I was writing. I enjoyed it as I read back over my writings. She stated that meant unprocessed anger. She had no idea where I’d been. I wasn’t smoking because I was angry but because I enjoyed a smoke when I wrote! She knows me better than I know myself?
Ridiculous…
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I don’t think anyone is truly mature till they can forgive their parents for being themselves and recognising that they are Human, not perfect.
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Me too Chesh…
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ps….so much if the “blame the parents” was based on blame and not forgiveness, forgiveness for them not being perfect and forgiveness of self for reacting negatively.
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Yeah but what if that parent is still unhealthy to be around. I went down the forgiveness path, but she is too toxic and since clean cut, much much better for it.
I recognise she is a product of her times – living through as a child and fleeing WWII decimated country, hyper-critical, strict physically violent at times mother etc, but toxic is toxic and she has no insight into her behaviour = not able to change.
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ff, i think that is where ‘forgiveness AND separation’ process is best- you can forgive but still, for your own health, decide that its not in your best interests to actively have the person, even a mother, in your life. it’s similar in removing yourself from an active substance abuser (whatever that description means to each person)- you may forgive and even still completely love the person, but you realise that it is not best to keep them intimately involved in your life. forgiveness isnt a blanket decision, its so multi layered and individual to each person’s situation. i’ve had very similar issues, so completely get where you’re coming from. xx
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Thanks saggigal. I don’t even think about her much anymore, maybe only which in conversation with sisters (but never directly). Even when I ring the kids when they’re with their dad and they’re over there having dinner I don’t feel anything anymore whereas before would have been enraged with the whole nuture my ex routine she has going.
I’ve definitely moved on. xx
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I agree. I did love someone very much but realized he didn’t get it and was toxic. Had to let him go so I would not be hurt again. I could have kept on understanding him etc., but do need someone with SOME awareness of their behavior otherwise I’m the parent, they the child and that’s lopsided, unhealthy in an intimate relationship.
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ff it’s also about accepting…..accepting that we’re not some divine spirit who can change the parent to a more perfect model and accepting that they are who they are and made that way for some reason unknown to us. We have no right to feel that we know better for them or that our opinion of who they should be in some way can improve them, we just don’t. It’s supreme conceit to think that we can. If we can’t deal with the clash of both our own personality and theirs, we have to mentally and/or physically distance ourselves and accept the situation while we forgive them and ourselves.
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ff have you asked yourself the logical question “why”. It’s hard for parents to accept their children’s relationship break ups for all sorts of reasons. You mention sisters but not brothers. Did your mother accept your ex as a son or additional son and love him as such? If she did your break up would be losing a son for her. Alternatively, did she love/fall in love with him herself? We’re all slaves to our feelings to some extent. Mentally accepting this scenario will be difficult but many women fall in love with younger men. If she loves him either way her heart was hurt and maybe the dinners are her way of coping with the separation and loss over which she had no control.
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Chesh, this isn’t really the place to go on about her (but I will a bit) but my therapist agrees the no contact is better. This is the mother who when I was aged 3 and living in PNG would send me off with 17 year old male stranger natives for the day (and I would be screaming and crying that I didn’t want to go). This is the mother who left my middle sister living in Australia as she had undiagnosed hip displasia so had to have long-term treatment whilst the rest of the family went to PNG for 2 1/2 years. Sister left with grandmothers and aunts while not in hospital. Just cannot at any level relate to that. No violins here, just have always been the family scapegoat.
I can’t even bring myself to do her chart, but she is Pisces (as was my dad) and I have Saturn conj Asc in Pisces – may have something to do with it but not going there (don’t have a birth time anyway).
And yes, can be objective and feel for her, especially her lack of insight, but hell I was her child and she just never protected me, just the opposite at times.
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And Chesh, re brothers didn’t have any, i’m eldest of 3 girls. And yes she does think the sun shines out of ex’s bum. But completely different to her inappropriate boundaries with my baby Leo sis’s hb. She is overinvolved in their lives and criticises him endlessly (he a gentle musical Virgo). She even goes on holidays with them. Also nothing is sacred for her, any delicate information is immediately passed on to the Leo sis and her extended family.
I’ll shut up now, my Toro sis is a new subscriber to Mystic but this is nothing new to her, she be the evolved Toro/Aries/Saggi sis. Sure we are connected in a past life
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ff some Pisceans think they know everything about everything and live in la-la land. Their realities are so far off the planet that it makes your head spin and they can verbally justify anything. I have a friend who’s Piscean mother wouldn’t allow her to share the bedroom with her younger sister so she was forced to sleep on the sofa for 10yrs and her clothes were in a wardrobe in the laundry. Her reason “she needs her privacy more than you do” but I think the piscean mother was jealous of her. Completely irrational and physically violent.
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Ooh that resonates chesh, not the violence, but the irrationality and I suspect the jealousy, lots of stuff has come to surface with therapy. But at the time as a child/adolescent, no idea. Also I just don’t get it as could not feel that with my own. I suppose I have my childhood to thank for my direction towards psychology and self understanding etc to my own mothering now (nn/vertex/mars conj kataka in 5th conj venus gem at end of 4th).
Yep forgiveness AND separation. xx
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after my friend and her siblings left home, this same piscean mother went on to animal welfare and won all sorts of awards for her work with animals while her children went on to years of therapy.
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Yes, years of therapy lol.
Most think of my mother as sweetness and saintly-light. And her hobby is reading self-help books (eek). I know there’s something way off here but I’m not objective so can’t hone in on it. I don’t believe all Pisceans are like this at all though, but you’ve illustrated the type of piscean that does your head in I think. Thanks chesh xx
PS I think my father would be turning in his grave re ex-hb crap – if he had one. Mother took it upon herself to throw his ashes into the sea off Noosa, not his idea at all.
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Oh, and the reason my friend left home was that when she was 17 she arrived home to find her mother in bed with her (my friend’s) boyfriend nekked and smoking dope. She went to live with her grandmother who helped her recover and rebuild her life.
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Mother took it upon herself to throw his ashes into the sea off Noosa, not his idea at all.
Perfect example of “I wish it so I’ll justify it” that the bent Piscean I’m talking about was capable of. She didn’t seem to have any form of understanding anything beyond her own wishes, was completely incapable of empathy and would look bewildered when she caused chaos.
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Chesh thankyou, you get it!
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Her mother was physically violent towards her older sister(eldest of 5), brutal bashings. So my mother shut the hell up and probably disappeared into lala land then.
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CC, my retired therapist friend, the Aqua Air Mother talks about ‘demythologizing your parents’; exactly as you say, something that happens when you grow up and accept your parents as human and therefore fallible, instead of expecting so much of them. Brought down from the pedestal they are easier to forgive.
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Hmmm, maybe us Pluto in Virgos are ultra-sensitive to our wounded child/ innocent natures
as a legacy of having Pluto in Leo parents, who through their own conditioned upbringing unknowingly perpetuated the generation gap/sense of separation that too often permeates the family unit. Caroline Myss is an interesting read, but how much do I love Barbara Hand Clow… -
must have been 500 people at some convention of psychologists doing
inner child work meeting at some unitarian church in bethesda in 90’s
I recall..basically all of them a bunch of hot chicks interestingly….
I mean, sensuous … petite you know? fresh bread but no one baking…oh, but back to the convention…
speeches… breaking into groups doing exercises of all kinds…
totally hot (whatever it was… if she’s for it I’m all in you know)
long f’ time ago…. (this is coming back like one of those repressed memories…)
many groups, adult children of childish adults, misplaced siblings of forgotten children, and forgetful children of dreaming parents
some of the groups I think, but it was a long time ago dude.
went on and on and on, like, when are the riot police going to rapall thru
the plate glass windows to quash this insurgent movement any minute now… so insane… (typo inane..)kept thinking, bambi’s mom yeah… (I met her actually…)
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checking my notes from my many travels…
believe it was the kasper hauser event that was the hinge pin for all
empathy and inner child work… (in the historical timeline early 1820’s)(some anthroposophist revisionist group lecture I went too… comparing
hauser to Christ , modern version , return of empathy the “christ likeness”
you know…)sounds about right..
(amazing story , apparently they tried to kill soul of child thought to be
napoleons grandson in order to keep his soul returning to incarnate and wreaking havoc on the world again– just kept him in dark room from age
3 or something– a guard made a mistake, took pity on the child and gave him two toys,
a piece of string and a toy horse…. which the child ryhtmically played withrythmically doing things how soul comes into incarnation…
When he was freed some benefactor set him loose on streets of some
city and he was found by royals…. amazing empathic abilities became the
toast of all Europe..(true story apparently… )
not unlike the MJ story when you think about it…
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william you’re freaking me out
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read this today to add to our discussion
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excellent David – this is why I say that affirmations DO work but they are WORK – if we attempt to replace a negative self image with its opposite we are lining ourselves up for self sabotage. The idea is to go with the flow – we acknowlege our shortcoming and shift it slightly. So that rather than expecting ‘I am a successful wealthy man’ to work for someone who has been, say, cleaning toilets for twenty years – something like ‘even though I am now cleaning toilets and I feel bad that I’m not wealthy and successful right now, I love and accept myself deeply and completely’… the emphasis is on acceptance… over time this could shift to ‘I enjoy what I do’ or ‘I do satisfying work for satisfying pay’ and even ‘money flows to me in unexpected ways’.
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How this for a slight shift TA?
“oKAY, SO i’M SHIT. bUT Don’t smell too bad…”
Think might get to “everythings coming up roses” eventually, eh?
Hope you know I’m joking. Lot of it is Sethian like… Coo…
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LOL Sweetpea… “even though I”m SHIT, I kinda don’t smell too bad, and I LOVE and accept myself deeply and completely”… yes, it would get to coming up roses in time because most egos have no objection to being loved, deeply and completely, and will let the new thought patterns IN…
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I loved this video that Willian posted….
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tee hee… I just wanna…
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……….and how true is that!! I’ve always thought that it only works for cases who have a certain amount of self belief but even then if there’s not obvious signs of success, these start questioning themselves about why it’s not working for them.
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i used to be totally skeptical about inner child work until i tried it once and it actually seemed to help. there’s always something about gemini people that makes me think that A) they are especially in touch with their ‘inner child’ or B) they need to be.
a sort of gaiety or lightness, maybe.
on one level i think it would be nice to be able to change some of my thought processes but you know… i always fret about losing something of ‘myself’ that way. what if i just AM a miserable old curmudgeon. or whatever i feel like being on any given day.
david, thanks for pointing out that article – i always feel worse when doing affirmations, and i actually feel better when i accept that i am not happy all of the time and that bouts of cynicism / whatever are part of my particular brand of existence.
sometimes i’m even happy being miserable, especially if it motivates me to be creative.
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Candace Pert’s body of work is fantastic, yup, proved what we ‘knew’ about cellular memory.
Shouldn’t knock Lou Lou coz her affirmation cards blu tacked in front of me really do work if feeling
a little low.Yes Sweetpea, so over bodyworkers who use their ‘intuition’ & words just pop out, when
you were not there for their intuition or fortune telling but a damn good massage!
As a renege from massage college, went & had many massages to compare me before i started
biz. Each time i came out said to myself ‘well, i certainly won’t do THAT or say THAT’.Thought smokin’ was a sign of not getting enough breath, a rhythm thing…in…hold…out…in & out etc.
(maybe it’s not getting enough sex put that way:)
Congrats on your tossing it & redirecting the energy elsewhere.
‘ON YA’ as we say in Ozville .
Look at what you are saving buck’s wise.
So Cali is from Mexa-Cali Rose, a song or movie i heard/saw once?-
I do “Cali” for California so as to not do CA as some mistake for Canada which is CN…
Anyway, heard about Mexi-Cali…think that’s a place down south borderwise..(?)
Yeah, don’t appreciate the unsolicited advise so certainly don’t do it to massage patients (gosh knows we hear alot though, huh? I got the husband patient tellin’ me not to tell the wife patient, he,he and all kinds of stuff).
Ah gee, gotta get to bed. 8:00 call in the morning. I’m tired lately. Thank god I get off at noon. Usually come home and take a nap. Night Pegs.. x
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Sorry a little off topic but is that Claudia Schiffer, the Virgo German ’90s supermodel holding the Barbie? She looks very mermaidy and piscean though.
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These are fascinating. I am gonna do more psych posts. Youse are all so erudite! Yes it is Claudia Schiffer – i forgot to caption it, soz.
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omg the obvious disclaimer mentally ill should not stuff about
well, guess that counts me out….back to the institution..do sorta miss the cold sheets… just hanging around… nice talkn to yall
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