Happy Moonwane in Scorpio! La Luna appropriately salutes a newly retrograde Pluto – ruler of Scorp – and then squares jolly Jupiter in avant-garde Aqua. It’s a Goth weekend! Hilarious too that it is Good Friday – the one time fertility fest turned oh-don’t-start-one but really, any official festival SET to be on a Full Moon or closely around it has gotta be trouble.
That creature at the end of the path, above, is whom…exactly? Your Jungian ‘Shadow’ figure, longing to bond more closely with you as it’s the Moonwane in Scorp et al? Oh and b.t.w the mystical Goth significance of this weekend is even more O.T.T. as the Moon is in the Via Combusta a.k.a the Fiery Way - a part of the skies quite notorious in ancient days and Horary astrology… I never make much of it as my natal Moon is smack bang in the middle of it.
Or could the above figure just be a newly more austere acquaintance? Your own deepening awareness???
A suitable poem for ANY Moonwane in Scorp…
“…In a dark time, the eye begins to see,
I meet my shadow in the deepening shade;
I hear my echo in the echoing wood–
A lord of nature weeping to a tree,
I live between the heron and the wren,
Beasts of the hill and serpents of the den…”
In A Dark Time by Theodore Roethke - the rest is here.
Goth Easter Sunday Outfit Suggestion;
It’s Goth, could be passed off as Christian & yet the Stag horns beneath the veil powerfully evoke Pagan origins, Oestre, the Goddess of the Dawn & Fertility from whence Easter actually got its name. There, I managed a rant in only one sentence this year. No eggistential crisis.
Tags: Aquarius, Christian, Christian astrology, Dawn, Easter, Goddess, Good Friday, Good Friday astrology, Goth, Gothic, Gothic astrology, Horary astrology, In A Dark Time, Jung, Jungian, Limbonic Art, moon, Moon in Scorpio, Moon in The Scorpio, Moon sextile Pluto, Moon square Jupiter, Moonwane, Oestre, Pagan, Scorpio, Stag, Theodore Roethke, Via Combusta, Wicca
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I’d wear the antlers to david’s bash, but it’s a bitch getting into and out of the Datsun.
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Im howling already..
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Wait til I get a swing going with the hairbrush
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ya just gotta chainsaw the top off the Datto darl……..then ya got a sunroof…loooxuryy
i was thinking the outfit is Viktor n rolf but there’s too much humanity and frills for it to be them…right? cbf searchng 4 source…lazy friday..day of rest, right
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I’m lighting the oxy torch as we speak UP. Otherwise I’ll be driving with my head out the window.
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would you prefer if I wimpered ?
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howling becomes you
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btw is that an Easter Island pic with peeling hollow lefts in the background? not that i can surf mind u. (on to do list)
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yep
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Holy Hades, a suitable poem for those of under the Plutonic sway… I jest but it makes me sort of cry. Teary eyed. For all those little shadow figures of mine.
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scorpy moon wane is an excellent time for a cry FA – I myself finally succumbed to it this morning after a week or so post CUB’s confession of keeping my cool, buoying up my psyche with affirmations etc. This morning I just bawled and threw things at him. He doesn’t seem to get it, so can only conclude he is brainless as well as heartless. My last words to him were to the effect that I now know that having his child means so little that anyone can do it.
hmm. that was my easter eggistential crisis.
fluffy bunnies my foot!
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Ta, TA! So lovely to be reassured. Was yours cathartic? The cry and the subsequent hurling of things at the CUB?
Not to take you there again, but wot was the CUB confession? I have missed it I think..
And I was just thinking when you said eggistential crisis of how as women we not only bear children but so much else, we seem to have been built for endurance, for swallowing and of course, for transforming. I remember reading a description about yang male energy by David Deida a long time ago.. I can’t quote it properly so forgive me but the jist was that essentially, the nature of maleness is about completion, about driving to an end, and towards death.
Whereas women are very much about unfurling, expanding and fruition… it makes me think that with moons such as this one, for women that “deepening shade” and “echoing wood” contain many more shades and voices. Because we take who we love and protect into us, whether we want to or not.
Very non-pastel musings am afraid…
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thank goddess for your non-pastel musings FA, I like mine dark, oily and textured
the CUB has gone and knocked up ‘a thirty year old accountant from Victor Harbour’ – whose last name he doesn’t know… he claims it was a ‘random shag’ and that he ‘isn’t with her’ and doesn’t ever want to be. The funny thing is that he told me this on xmas day, then retracted it – then she contacted me on Feb 13 (comment on my blog), and when I asked him about it he then told me it was simply the Pole Dancing Stalker ‘messing’ with me. He denied denied denied whenever questioned or gently probed. Flat out, right to my face. He has taken denial to a new level.
Of course, we are not ‘in a relationship’ either (except that we are lovers – yes that was rekindled post his five-month-long absence – and have a child together) Its all so silly. What is it to do with me if he impregnates half this city? (hey, give the man time, he just may).
The thing that gets me is that things have been so darn good between us, and now its all messed up.
plus, I need to get a new mobile phone, having smashed it on him.
sometimes us Toros have Scorpionic tempers
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TA … gosh!!!! Sounds like you need some pepper spray too! What is it with us Goddesses attracting so much swine?
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ouch prowlincat…
he’s not so much swine as… well – he’s a Scorpio Rising Libran… he looks like a cross between James Blunt and Viggo, with a slightly bigger nose.. in other words, he’s a HOT flirt, dark and dirty. He’s funny and smart and most of the time he’s kind. He taught my children how to ride their bikes, to swim, to ride skateboards, to fire a rifle, to play congos. He’s perfect for me. He has lots of growing up to do – so do I. We make beautiful babies together… If I were a man, I’d be just like him…He has Neptune in Scorpio rising – this means he’s sometimes rather compulsively attached to Neptunian things – substances, porn, strippers and he’s an excellent liar. His Virgo moon and Venus means he abhors these things. The conflict in him must be enormous. I feel the same way about many many things. I love him & wish I didn’t. -
oh, ps. I’m making it a resolution now to stop bagging the CUB – practicing the four agreements demands it
its about time I got in touch with ‘my inner swine’ and figure out how I can grow out of this scenario too… xx
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I feel you TA … the Double Bull certainly had charm thanks to Libra Moon and that sexy, naughty Aries Venus. BASTARD!
But yeah … must grow into what I’m attracted to. I wish I could do married with 2.5 plus white picket fence and the dog. Not meant to be. After being married and a series of “safe” men … my heart (and lower regions) started to demand authenticity after 30. Crap!
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TA, wow, i was always wondering what you saw in the CUB having only read about the extreme crap behaviour. I can now understand the magnetic attraction with the other features you now add (especially his description which includes the pinup man of my life, Mr. Mortensen.) as well as many interesting talents and shared ideas etc…tricky..
BUT i have to say are you sure his sex / other appeal has not waned with the awful way he treats you/others?? surely even the hottest guy on the planet would start to come across as a big fat ugly twerp after collecting such a litany of bad deeds…. BUT i do understand sometimes they can have such a hold over us…it’s not for me to say what’s what…i bet lovely FA with the Scorping and others are wisely holding their peace…but all i can hazard in rather obvious, clunky fashion is ‘aren’t you tired of that?’ in the kindliest way…but it’s time only when it’s time, only you can know when that is. and like u say , u love him and wish you didn’t.
oooo, watching RockWiz here (eee love it i want her job!! or that of one of the famous guest musicians!) and they just played a sing called “he’s gonna step on you” . i just wanted to put that in there even tho it sounds like he’s already done his fair share of stepping.
be at peace TA xxx easy for a random person on the internet to say, harder for the real person to do …but good luck. -
OMG TA, i had to read that a few times and think really hard. Was wondering if CUB was the same guy i had a fling with 14 years ago. He was also a Scorpio Rising Libran with Venus in Virgo, Mars in Libra. I have Mars Virgo and Venus in Libra – so the chemistry was out of this world. He was also extremely good looking, talented, charming and also rather attached to “Neptunian” things.
At the time i felt like he was the only person in the world who completely “got” me. Our fling never progressed to a relationship and it was only months after he moved to Tassie and became a dad, that a mutual friend told me he confessed to her that he loved me but didn’t want to ruin my life. It’s the nicest thing anyone has ever done for me. He used to call me every now and then for long chats and then the calls stopped until a few years ago when he called to say he was in town and asked if i would meet up with him for a coffee. Curiosity got the better of me and i wanted to meet his 10-year old son. Well, our meeting was truly embarassing and i couldn’t wait for it to be over. He was high.. STILL using after becoming a dad and a few years shy of 50! AND still crapping on about not being cut out to work (he was on a disability benefits). I lost all respect for him right there and then. It made me so angry. He’s not disabled, just fuqing lazy. I’m working my arse off, paying taxes so he can chase the bloody white dragon or whatever else rocks his neptunian boat!
I was completely flabbergasted – in all those years, he had not done one single thing to change or improve his life. What a waste!!… It made me realise how much “I” had changed and that life is all about attitude not circumstances and that I can’t be around people who don’t grab life by the horns. He called again recently to announce he had just joined a band, i said “sorry, now is not a good time…i have to go”. What i wanted to say was “get a bloody job you lazy git!!” heheAnyway, we all have different journeys… good luck with growing out of the scenario.
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Darling, TA it must be a Viggo thing as Le Scorp resembles him as well! Poor Viggo, to be the prototype for the dastardly…I say this with all love of course
I’m going to have to echo prowlncat on this one, authenticity is a must, and well, it ain’t pretty either. That’s the thing. I don’t think I can ever explain my relationship to anyone and ever come to any reasonable conclusion that would make sense. So I think I’ve become a bit of a reductionist, i.e. I am with him till I’m not. Bit limbic probably.
I just know tossing it 20,000 times in my mind doesn’t work, and trying to couch it as something so ultimately destined doesn’t either because how could I be the judge of that at this point in my life? But I find that I can follow my strength and my own authenticity better sans thinking about it too deeply, you know the tricks the mind plays.
Perhaps it is a way of trusting myself to know and do when it comes to the fore for me. Sometimes even in conversations with the Scorp when he’s angsting about a decision, even one totally unrelated to the situation, that a lot of what gets in the way is a fear of the truth, and a tendency to revise things to fit the ideal. That doesn’t work. How can one change something one can’t even admit to?
But I guess it means one has to have the guts to stand the ugliness within to get there and man, that is not pleasant. I used to discuss my situation loads with close friends but I also know that along with some very truthful points, those discussions can be loaded with things I trigger in them, and even the anger they still have about all this. I can’t convince them to feel otherwise, they’re entitled to it, but that leaves me in a lonely place.
I don’t resent it anymore because I see now that space is necessary to transmute things, that you can’t necessarily evolve while holding a press conference about it. The past year has also shown me that our transformations are not effected via sole focus on the area most needing it, and that other parts of us, the other spheres of our lives truly do come into play into aiding that, and we are, if we allow ourselves to be, much more whole than we think we are. I don’t see myself as an otherwise intelligent woman who’s relationship life is a bit dodgy, I used to, and the additional judgment that comes from that doesn’t help anyone.
I do see myself as both flawed and perfect in aspects, and I think particularly at this stage, I have to engage in stretching towards myself. I have given up the thought that our transitions move towards fixed points, but rather that we create our destinations as we journey. Figuratively, things do not move in a line for me, but rather an ever evolving spiral where I find myself revisiting certain points armed with more and more perspective. As well as naturally able or unable to continue with certain things.
So the Scorpbot is right, it is the journey. And whew, I agree, that WAS a loving act that man did for you SR! You know, I do strongly suspect though that it was also him saying no to the possibility of change for himself. He must have sensed that your highly evolved sense of purpose, your work ethic would have called all the same things latent within him, just from him knowing that he was in love with you.
Isn’t it funny how so not fairy tale this all is?
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prowlincat – I’m a taurus with Libra moon and venus in aries.. how funny
(maybe I’m a charming bastard too! lol)yes, authenticity is an absolute MUST as life goes on… i find myself looking deeper for it, and questioning every idea to get to the truth of things. I cannot, however, expect authenticity from anyone but myself and CUB’s lack thereof is his problem. It only becomes mine when I expect him to be honest/authentic and find he isn’t – at which point I’m just arguing with reality. Pointless!
Yes and No, UP – I’d like to say that I feel less attracted to him when he is unkind/dishonest/addicted, and I must say it is tempting to reject him (this hasn’t worked in the past so I’ve given up pushing him away). What happens instead is I reach some new level of commitment to myself and huge growth. To tell you the truth this man has pushed so many buttons in me that he has become like a spiritual teacher. I haven’t forgotten that he is a Pluto transit!! I do look forward to complete resolution though as I get tired of all the lessons, hence yesterday’s frustration and tantrum.
I haven’t closed my mind/heart to other men, I do date others and remain optimistic that there’s a Right Partner (or several!) for me. I don’t wish for more from CUB, I don’t think I could handle it – I’m aiming for friendship.
SR – wow. there’s nothing less attractive than a charming, lazy, addicted man with no drive. No drive = no mars = no balls = Yuck. (CUB works six days a week!). Very fortunate for you that guy didn’t stick around and complicate your life. Sometimes these Neptunian types do have flashes of the Higher version – and make loving sacrifices.
FA – I am so there with you about not being able to discuss these matters openly. My family and friends are aghast that I allow CUB into my house, let alone into my life. I try not to mention him lest I am bludgeoned with yet more advice about ’settling for less’ and ‘he’ll never change’.
What baffles me is the lack of understanding from my ‘loved ones’ – they seem so focused on how bastardly the guy is and don’t seem to notice how much I’ve changed and grown.
No, there’s no point in trying to avoid the situation, it’ll only keep coming back at me until I learn the darn lessons. ‘Many repetitions’ is what my alchemy teachers say to me – sometimes we think the Work is done only to find that the process needs another distillation…
letting seven eagles fly,
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Oh, TA what was that quote? “Your loved ones judge you for who you were forgetting who you are NOW” or some such thing…
Touche…
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oh my goodness TA!!! Really?? Well you must give me some insight on the flipness of the combo – like why one minute let’s shack up in a well scented lurv nest with tealight candles and the next – freaking out because of … oh I don’t know. He said he thinks I’m “better” than him … like more brainy, talented blahdeblah and that one day I’ll find someone better and leave him anyway. Talk about writing the script!
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not sure that anything I can add can help you with that quandary prowlincat… sounds like a bit of a Saturn thing – fear and low self esteem perhaps? I don’t like to pass judgement, lest I be judged
. Most of the taurean men I’ve dated have been solid as a rock, warm and stable emotionally – reliable and not given to fickleness. Perhaps its the Libran moon after all – does he have saturn opposite moon? Also, I suppose Venus in Aries is impatient and grows tired of her lover easily (I know this has been true of me in the past). I hope that helps a little… and that some balance can be found for you both xx
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Alchemy or not FA, what price are you paying for all this growth? Is it worth the angst and damage? I’m with your family on this one. I’m all for growth, but why set yourself up for pain? Things seemed ’so darn good’ all the time you were being lied to, with the old repeat behaviour seething away below the surface.
Like FA’s bigamizing scorp (great to have you back FA) and robot’s Libran, the CUB has plenty of lovable parts, I’m sure, but they don’t add up to a whole. I’m not talking about a perfect whole, just something that’s relaxing to live with.
What worries me is the ‘most of the time he’s kind’. Yah, when it suits him, when it’s convenient, i.e. when there’s something in it for him. I know of plenty havoc mongers who are charming when it suits. I have less patience with them than you because unfortunately I’m related to a couple. A few decades of that kind of torture is certainly educational, but also very wearing. Kicking the worst offender out of my life was the most liberating thing I ever did, and with him went a bunch of peripheral parasites and time wasters, when they realized I was no longer going to play the game. Ah the peace…
Anyway, it concerns me that you and FA identify with these guys too readily, and take on some of the responsibility for their destructive habits. How were you to know they were lying to you? Why should you feel responsible or guilty for trusting them when they portrayed themselves so convincingly or even persuasively? THEY made the choices to behave the way they do.
Sure, you’re capable of wreaking havoc too, but you don’t. You choose not to. You reject it, like I reject disrespectful behaviour.
So sad about robot’s libran that he gave up someone he loved, recognizing his destructive behaviour, all the time probably loathing himself, and to live with that was an easier choice than to do the hard work of cultivating some integrity. Same goes for the bigamist and the CUB.
And four agreements or not, I doubt you should stop bagging the CUB, because at least it’s honest.
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oh Uber… according to your system of belief, you are right
thank you for your rational voice…I’m not sure if bagging the CUB is honest or not – sure I’m being honest when I say I feel angry or sad or whatever, but if I’m judging him I’m projecting my own story/idea of him onto him. I can see the big picture – his role in the pantheon of my own myth – and although there has been pain I’m not afraid of it (any more than I’m afraid of the pain of giving birth or the pain of a headache – there’s nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with pain – its a signal).
..and I’m responsible for my whole life, including everyone in it – I’m nobody’s victim (even if I do get raving mad sometimes or tired of working it through!). It might be different if I were dependent on him, if he were physically abusing me or my children or if he inflicted his other Neptunian past times upon any of us. There are limits to how this story goes!
I’ll never reject a ‘negative’, whether thats a ‘peaceful’ solution or not, because as Jung says ‘what we deny will show up in our lives as Fate’. Might as well just knuckle down, learn the hard lessons and emerge stronger, wiser and more beautiful on the other side of it . I don’t reject destructive behaviour in myself either – I accept it and it has no power over me. That is why CUB’s behaviour has no real power over me either (and why I can still love him and see his innocence, his inner divinity and beauty).
(can I just add here AGAIN that CUB pushes ALL the buttons that other men have pushed -that the same patterns have repeated from early childhood; the rejection, the abandonment, the faithlessness – right down to the ‘other woman’ – blonde, of course, like my step mother – the ‘other child’ (a girl, of course, like my half sister) and the money crapola – I WANT to go through this! It is PERFECT – I WANT to heal this once and for all!!)
and no, I don’t think I can change him, or make a relationship work with him, this is all about changing ME and making my relationship with myself work – which (and this is where your voice of reason comes in) means not ’setting myself up’ for bad things to happen, but rather seeing what happens not in terms of good or bad, destructive or constructive, wrong or right, black or white – but getting beyond the either/or.
I don’t call it alchemy for nothing
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ps. I’m healing this not just for myself but for my daughters – the crappy family history/pattern stops with me.
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Tough love must have been invented by a Virgo! We can’t help but be rational, pragmatic etc
I’d make a shithouse alchemist. So far all I’ve achieved is muscle strain from heaving around the lead, scalds from the crucible, dizzy spells from the fumes and heatstroke…Alchemy is damned hard work.
Judgement, however, is easy.
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Uber,
I agree in the sense that until I loved me more than him I’d had no boundries. It took a great amount of getting in touch with my anger to set those boundries because meanwhile I was seeking to understand him too. It didn’t work that way because he is He and I am Me and it wasn’t about my projections or any kind of myth…It was about the karma between us that had to be healed. That was the story….
Divinity requires that we honor Self. Let others learn to do the same as well. They are capable… Sometimes that comes with tough love and a good dose of looking at themselves….
After all, it’s being asked of us, isn’t it?
Prowlncat,
Men who say that have low self esteen that eventually they end up taking out on you.
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“Love takes a stand”…
-Marriane Williamson, “A Return to Love”..
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‘love is the only thing that’s real’ – Marianne Williamson, ‘A return to love’
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Best advice I have gotten thus far is to ask yourself what you are , I suppose, ‘getting out of it’. If you are still finding value in a relationship, then its worth it on level.
He grow through both sucesses and challenges. Too much of one thing only makes us develop in one direction, really.
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Oooh, almost missed this post Uber, yes, great to be back! And ever the voice of the pragmatist, haha…
Just for the record, I don’t actually identify with bigamists quite that readily. Or at least not consciously. But I do identify with someone I love.
From a practical point of view, I agree that it is completely undeniable that both these men have disturbing behavior and that it would make the most sense to just cut it off. The question is, can I actually carry this out in practice?
I’ve certainly tried but since knowing myself, I’m not one to successfully force myself into following an idea, I have to accept that this is part of my journey. Certainly not in a way that gives up my responsibility over my life as TA points out, but to be conscious that in some way this has played into things (history of bigamy in family, love etc. the whole shebang) inside me seething away.
I think wot TA and I probably can very much sympathize with is the fact that yes, being in it doesn’t mean you’ve suddenly developed the super strength to withstand it, or that pain or sadness doesn’t come. It does. But what I encounter is, well, you knew so you don’t deserve to be sad or complain or be unhappy.
It’s a logical comment. But where does that leave me? Or my relationship to my loved ones? I’m very much still in this till I’m not, and I’m not running to anyone asking them to perform miracles on this man (doesn’t work:) ) but I do understand that it’s actually difficult for people who love me to watch me suffer at times. And I guess because I’ve never actually said that to anyone (you knew so take it) it feels very limiting to me when loved ones want me to report a state of play that they find acceptable vs what is.
At the end of the day, even if people think of me as being horribly impaired for loving this man, I can’t actually lie and say I don’t. I don’t want a medal for it, I just want to be real to myself. It’s the only thing I think we can fulfill.
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I truly admire you and the alchemist for your honesty and guts and your glorious lovingness, your immense generosity of spirit.
There’s nothing impaired about you and I don’t think these relationships have impaired either of you in any way.
I was one of the people worried about you last year. I don’t mean it to be condescending but it was difficult to tell over the cyber how bad things were getting, or whether you were simply uncommonly articulate in venting the intensity of your pain. I’m not worried now. And I get what you’re saying about your loved ones baulking at seeing you suffer. In general human beings have trouble allowing people to feel their pain, even if it’s wholly necessary in order to be real and grow. It’s finding the point too at which it goes too far and becomes counterproductive, which is where the support comes in. For my own grieving I go to friends who have the strength to withstand it. It can frighten bejeesus out of the less well equipped.
I’ve never been in the situation you or TA are in. So it’s probably not fair for me to suggest more distance from these guys. I always got out of relationships early, as soon as I sensed any nastiness (similarity to my father). But that might be the dug in groundedness of being so bloody Virgo, and also the Sagg rising thing of cutting and running.
At least you’re suffering for something noble, the demands of love. A guy got nailed to the cross for that. And no one ever forgot it.
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Oh I do know you’re coming from a place of real support (the kind that brings the sandwiches and any other essentials!), completely. Goodness knows I’d be worried about someone in a situation resembling mine as well, and possibly not far off from the “Run don’t walk” advice.
I never, in my wildest dreams, ever thought I would be in this. Ever. Did I already say that? Like you, my one wish as a child was to only love those who loved me back. It was simple, reasonable and it made sense. Only…I’m now discovering the fine print on the “love me back” part of this thing…
I don’t know if I would peg this as noble, it is very much a humbling experience, and far far from anything that pride would have one do. I think I sometimes see the ideals I had as I would a distant shore, and the present pulls me back in… thank you for reminding me that I’m not impaired. It feels that way at times so it’s nice to actually read/hear it from someone else.
Specially anyone Virgo!
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Definitely not impaired. Way, way ahead of the game as far as I’m concerned. I think you and TA put your hearts out there with much greater fearlessness than I ever could. THAT’S humbling.
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Yep, I’m feeling really intense. Just hope it’s a productive kind of anguish.
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i wish i felt intense the moons conjunct my own you know you’d think something outlandish would happen but no, i feel happy and relaxed at one with the world goddammit maybe a coffee will wig me out a bit
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NO, honestly? I roll with the Full Moons normally, and sort of regard it as a special time when Mother Moon comes out to feed me… as a Cancerian I cannot help but sense this. Still, it doesn’t mean the intensity abates for me.. is rather like being in Burn Mode, a la Phoenix.
So..is not quite that something externally large impinges on me, but like having my senses and emotions in stereo and every frequency imaginable. I am always tired when the moon is full… but thankful.
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intensity… process… integration… and it just keeps raining, and raining, and raining… for weeks… So much interiorly maturing… I won’t forget this time in my life in a hurry.
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‘love is the only thing that’s real’ – Marianne Williamson, ‘A return to love’
She did state that TA,
But what I meant was in the context of making a choice as love often requires we do as far as honoring self or not being on the side of what we know is harmful to self or others.
“rather seeing what happens not in terms of good or bad, destructive or constructive, wrong or right, black or white – but getting beyond the either/or”
I’m not willing to be this vague. ‘Love taking a stand’ often means either/or. In light of Easter, in many instances according to the teachings, Christ had to choose or made a choice based on the circumstance presented.
If one was beyond duality what you state above would not apply, but we are not beyond duality thus situations as you and others describe will hurt us. If one chooses to subscribe to being beyond duality then one cannot complain when hurt.
This is an example of the battle that goes on inside each human being as we are ‘only human’ on the one hand and divine on the other and seeking to live up to an ideal. In the end there’s nothing wrong with that but a time comes when we have to make a choice as this is the lesson of three D and using our discrimination.
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“But what I meant was in the context of making a choice as love often requires we do as far as honoring self or not being on the side of what we know is harmful to self or others.”
I’m not sure if you’ve actually understood my comments here ‘anonymous’ – but one thing I do not do is claim to ‘have no choice’ – in fact me stating above that I’m nobody’s victim is a clear indicator that I am AWARE of what this situation entails. I have also stated that there are limits to how the story goes – there is no abuse happening to me or my children. The man makes idiotic choices, but they are HIS to make, and I strive to see the situation differently. Nor do I often, as you say ‘complain when I get hurt’. Being entitled to feel what I feel doesn’t run contra to my aim of getting beyond the black and white of anything.
“If one was beyond duality what you state above would not apply, but we are not beyond duality thus situations as you and others describe will hurt us.”
How do YOU know?? Who is this WE? I have not said I am beyond duality!!
I wrote: seeing what happens not in terms of good or bad, destructive or constructive, wrong or right, black or white – but getting beyond the either/or.
I’m talking about SEEING things differently!
I’m not asking you to subscribe to my system of belief at all – do not assume to know what is in my heart or mind please – you do NOT.
If I want to strive for equalmindedness, to engage with others who challenge me to move beyond my family patterns and unconscious behaviours and to tap into my inner resources rather than relying on external ones, rather than seeking only ‘harmonious’ relationships, rather than copping out of ‘harm’ then it is not for you, anonymous, – or anyone – to tell me I am wrong.
I’d like to ask you what you get out of lecturing me on this!?! Anonymously at that!
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ps. I apologise if my tone is somewhat impatient – the truth is I AM getting impatient with everyone’s OPINIONS on my situation when I have come here to be amongst like minded souls who do not judge and who offer some support, with or without agreeing with my choices.
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I don’t get this karma business. I mean … what’s the friggin point of it? You get born into a life you don’t choose and get lambasted with crap you don’t understand due to some past life you can’t remember, in order to evolve to be something that you probably don’t even give a rat’s arse about anyway.
Yeah right … really great motivational learning strategy you got going on there universe.
Personally as good as it gets when it comes to spirituality is me smiling at the checkout chick when I’m in one of “those” vaguely postal moods. Or not telling clients to feck off with yet another change
… and yet weirdly I picked up two strangers tonight and gave them a lift to their destination (the pub) feeling completely casual, safe and unfettered by worries of stranger danger. It was five minutes of hilarity having two tipsy sods in the backseat carrying on and asking my name/life story repeatedly and calling me their “guardian angel” … hehe
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Prowlncat,
Everything that was never looked at by anyone before this moment in time is karma. Thus the cumbersome bodies we carry about. Thus all the conflicting ideas and emotions. The pain. It’s carried down generation after generation until some one soul in the family line heals it. I believe TA refered to that…’stopping it’ with her. Someone has to do it and it’s usually a strong soul that does.
Unfortuneately, the point of it was that it was not necessary but humanity divided up creation when they divided up their perception through judgements and opinions. However, since we have decided to perceive this way, it’s our very discernent and discrimination (a ~choice~ given to all initiates eventually) that resolves duality.
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if that’s the case where exactly is the choice??
and who gives a rats about duality? who cares? sounds like just another meaningless esoteric concept with no practical application
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The choice is for each individual to find out for themselves as dictated by
the Soul. The circumstances in which this comes about is unique for each as far as life scenarios. In practice, it happens everyday with every decision or thought we have as our consciousness is pulled between the two extremities.“and who gives a rats about duality? who cares?”
I understand because at a time I thought pain and suffering, war, were normal. We can be so amdist this that we do not realize that there is no need for pain.
So my question is, do you hurt? Do you have pain, emotional, physical or otherwise? If so and you don’t care for it, that’s your answer.
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is that so?
Dancing with the grace and laughter of say … Buddha would be as close as I can come to in terms of “freeing oneself of duality”. But then he was a Brahmin of the privileged class and just sat on his arse under the Boddahvista tree to gain enlightenment. Well ok he mucked about a bit before hand but so what … he was one hell of a Lucky Dude. Who gets the chance to meditate and contemplate breathing and whatnot these days?
Pain/pleasure …. love/hate … life/death …. war/peace … happy/sad … are these the dualities you speak of? Sorry but it’s going to take more than one brave and strong soul to reconcile them. Not to mention, how can we know one without the other?
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“Sorry but it’s going to take more than one brave and strong soul to reconcile”
We’re just starting. The world has a long way to go but every generation gets more refined. It has to start somewhere..
We do not need pain to know pleasure. We do not need death to know life.
There is only life. Even death comes from life…
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Some people see duality as a see saw, one, or the other. I see it slightly differently. Its more like a spinning wheel, we chose where we are on that wheel by the choices we make physically and emotionally. If one choses a position closer to the edge their lives tend to be a little like that, the rotation at that point is not faster than the rest of the wheel but seems so…as we move to the centre of the spinning wheel the rotation distance and disorientation lessens..in the centre one is spinning but is still.. this is where the power for the wheel resides. If I feel unwell or upset about a situation its normally because I have taken a position closer to the edge than one in the centre.
Karma can be rectified or eliminated by understanding one thing, or being able to accept one thing. That is, “what is my constitutional position, in this world, in this universe ?”.
Eventually our ego has to admit that we are ‘the feet’ of consciousness. Not the heart or mind. Enjoy being the feet, forget about striving for higher states, perfecting our ‘feet’ selves is all there is to do. What the universe needs is people being happy with the position they are in, then we are in sync, supported and encouraged.‘We do not need pain to know pleasure’
thats like saying there is only one face on a coin ?-
To exist, in general, we don’t “need” pain. One can have the two faces of the coin if they choose and some choose pain.
Of course it’s up to them.
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I really like this idea david … it sits well with me on a gut instinct level and reinforces the messages that have been coming at me, via people on my path and personal experience, repeatedly, since 2005. Sometimes I jokingly say that I need remedial spirituality since I find it very difficult to “accept” and so the lesson goes on and on and on. Either that or I’m just frighteningly stubborn … but
Basically what I take from your idea, is that it’s the ego self which makes judgements about one’s position and places self out on the edges of that wheel, due to its constant seeking and wanting. It is under the delusion that it has control and also that it will find contentment and happiness if external conditions adjust to suit its wants. If only he treated me better … if only I had more money .. if only I had’ve chosen that career etc …
Paradoxically the opposite seems to be true. The periods of greatest contentment and peace in my life have been when I’ve been able to detach from those ego drives and adjust myself to suit external conditions. Letting go of control fantasies about how I think things should be be and the stuff that I think I must have, seem to be key. Basically it’s engaging in the polarity, even if it’s only in my own mind, that seems to cause all the inner angst.
When I just accept what is and the terms in which circumstances present, I experience peace. The fighting stops in the head. Then, as if by some kinda perverse universal principle … things DO start to flow into my life with little personal effort .. aside from practising acceptance that is. It’s not that I always get what I want in these phases of “flow”, but definitely that which I need comes without much hassle and in surprising, interesting forms that I couldn’t have planned better myself.
But staying within that balance?? Woah now that’s where I get lost frequently. Maybe I just need more practice … and the universe is being SO FRIGGIN OBLIGING by giving me loads of opportunities to do so! LOL
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Beautiful explanation davidl, and as prowlncat said, so much more in sync with what I have experienced as reality, once I get past the mind judgments. Because it’s true, WE have to live the IS, and occupy our positions whatever those may be.
And I’ve always been uncomfortable, as well as highly suspicious, of a system that simply puts others higher or lower than me, as I would think in different aspects we may be one, the other or both?
It isn’t a line, it’s a circle. Just like the earth, love and life is.
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hey cool synchronicity you said that FA since just yesterday I was pondering what if the universe is in fact – circular – which is why it appears to be infinite. It’s possible that it’s no coincidence that the planets, solar systems and galaxies all follow a circular rotation. In which case it does seem to make sense that the container that holds them all is circular too?? Circles seem to be “the thing” in the universe …
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What if i told you we DID choose to be born.
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you can tell me, pegasus…
I’d say its true – even if I didn’t have children I’d believe it but one thing that strikes me about having them is that there are undeniably three people involved in the concieving of people – mother, father and child him/herself. There’s also a moment at birth when one can look at the child and see it all at once – the place they’ve come from, their whole life mapped out ahead (yes, I’ve seen how my girls will live their lives) – and the magical now, so full of mystery.
Have you read Hillman’s ‘The Soul’s Code’? He takes the Platonic idea (Socrate’s idea) of the ‘daemon’ as the carrier of the souls’ destiny – a before-life memory of the purpose of being. I LOVE it!
time to get out into this sunshine xx
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Oh I have sun envy TA.
We’ve had weeks and weeks and weeks of rain.Well really only 3 weeks it just feels so much longer. While I’m grateful for the bounty the water table will receive… a half hour of sunshine here and there is not enough to keep a Leo satisfied.
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here is a bagful of sunshine for you Lovely Leonine
rain would be nice here, could you send it this way please??
the state of my lawn is dismally dry and brown – the occasional hardy tuft of green giving me hope that come winter the whole thing can be saved. My proteas, on the other hand, are thriving. since I moved into this house the council have ripped up the road and the ground out front (its a corner block) to replace storm water drains. The house next door was demolished, and two double story townhouses are being built (the builders took down part of my fence and are using part of my yard to access a part of their site!) , and two doors down on the other side is another building site. There’s so much destruction and reconstruction going on around me its SO pluto in Capricorn. I actually kind of love it, because its showing me how structures are changing…
but some rain would settle some of the dust
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There is the sense with THIS much rain, that it could perhaps take itself off somewhere where it is needed more…wish truly it could come down your way and do some settle the dust for you.
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brain is soggy…grammar bad
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crikey, i wish my mum could do that, bless her. Would have saved me a more than a few moments in need of guidance!
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UP, read ‘the soul’s code’! (james hillman) – the idea is that we have a guide – a daemon or genius – a genie! – that offers that guidance…
mums are pretty good but often forget those perfect moments of clarity as time passes and our stories about our children become ingrained… xx
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I spent most of my weekend trying to revive my Peace Lily and my Wedding Iris.
I try to find neither of these thing significant.
Tried some new recipes and took care of my ailing housemate (oh she of the nasty head cold).
None of this terribly Gothic. I think I am trying not to get too dark. Especially as my work took me to a New Year festival and fundraiser for a new Temple for the Khmer community. Its hard to bee all dark and mysterious when on a jumping castle.-
aahh i gave my peace lily to the man upstairs who thought he was the channel for venus – the one with loud open door sex – have been longing for it over the last few days – wonder if thats how venus in pisces has manifested for me – have been longing for all my long lost houseplants …
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how bizarre – i meant to type channel for jesus – but there it is – venus! he was channeling something venusian obviously
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NNB, longing for the house plants? Or the loud open door sex? haha..
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